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Atheist Group Threatens Lawsuit Over ‘Seven In Heaven’ Street Sign Honoring 9/11 Firemen

by Tommy Christopher | 3:04 pm, July 7th, 2011

» 34 comments

A New York-based atheist group, the creatively monikered NYC Atheists, has taken its protest of a street sign honoring fallen 9/11 firefighters to the next level by threatening a lawsuit. “Seven in Heaven Way” in Red Hook, Brooklyn, is named for the seven members of Ladder Co. 101/Engine Co. 202 who died responding to the terrorist attacks of 9/11, and while the atheists’ protest has spurred justified outrage, the atheists’ argument that heaven is a “religious concept” that is ““specifically Christian” is fatally flawed.

Back in my stand-up comedy days, I did a character named Testicles, The Ancient Greek Comic (What’s the difference between Aphrodite and Medusa? When you look at Aphrodite, only part of you turns to stone. *rimshot*), and part of the bit was the character’s apoplectic reaction at the condescension of modern-day people asking him about Greek mythology. “I call it ‘church,’ jackass!”

From an atheist’s point of view, the “Christian concept” of heaven similarly constitutes mythology, which ironically seems to vindicate the “Seven in Heaven” sign of violating the separation of church and state. Surely, they don’t plan on suing the town of Valhalla, NY, or Jupiter, Florida over their promotion of ancient “religion.”

While defending the sign on the basis that Christianity is a myth might seem offensive to some, the term “mythology” isn’t necessarily a negative one. Many Christians subscribe to the view that some portions of the Bible are not meant to be taken literally, such as the creation of the Earth in six days. In the way that these stories attempt to explain the incomprehensible through simplified metaphor, they qualify as mythology.

The mythology argument also works on another level. The dictionary defines a myth as “a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation.”

Therefore, the fact that, in the telling and retelling of their exploits, these firefighters have become known as the “Seven in Heaven” creates a basis for the name in American folklore, independent of religion.

“Friendly Atheist” Hemant Mehta tried to buffer the bitter pill of his heaven-hating fellows, but the rigidity of his own belief system eventually got in the way. After criticizing the tone-deafness of the atheist leaders spearheading this protest, he hit a sour note of his own:

Let’s get the truth out of the way because it’s uncomfortable for most people: To say they’re getting an eternal reward for what they did is a lie. They died and they got no reward for their sacrifice.

Such a declaration is as without factual basis as the most zealous profession of religious faith. Setting aside the religious and spiritual underpinnings of this idea for a moment. Even in the absence of a religious belief in immortality, it is possible to achieve a kind of secular immortality.

Whether there’s a heaven, or some kind of spirit world, I have always believed that the surest way to keep someone alive is to remember them, speak about them, and feel about them. The reverence and gratitude that these seven firefighters inspire is a (hopefully) eternal reward. The space that they occupy in our hearts and minds is a heaven, metaphoric, yet tangible. No one knows what happens to the human consciousness at death, and while there’s no proof that these seven men have any idea how we all feel about them, there is, as yet, no courtroom, and no judge, with the jurisdiction to rule that they don’t.

Atheists, brooklyn, Church And State, Friendly Atheist, Hemant Mehta, New York, NYC Atheists, Red Hook, Seven In Heaven, Seven In Heaven Way

http://TheDividedStatesBlog.com Publius219

“and while the atheists’ protest has spurred justified outrage, but the atheists’ argument that heaven is a “religious concept” that is ““specifically Christian” is fatally flawed.”

Honestly, I’d be happy to copy edit for you guys for a small fee. It’s really really easy and doesn’t take much time at all.
Greg

Publius219 said:
It’s really really easy and doesn’t take much time at all.

…the reasoning is sound despite the technical errors
timcajun

The christians won’t like this, but the fake christians will go wild. This clearly is the state allowing religious involvement, which wouldn’t fly for tax dollars. Some muslin workers (in building) died that day, but if this sign were named Islam Way, Mecca Ave. Allah Drive, the “teas” would go wild, and it’s really the same thing, no matter how hard they try to “tea spin”! I hope they leave sign, but “teas” will demand their private cause is taken up and the same isn’t allowed for the other side! As always, anyone that wants church and state separated will be anti-American, even if it’s the law! God bless the “teas”!
Dave Richards

If these clowns don’t beleive in Heaven or God, why do they have their pink little panties all in a wad?

Good Lord!!! Get a job and do something constructive with your sorry lives.
Jim R

Please people, our government unconstitutionally subsidizes a plethora of blatantly religious activities with my tax dollars, this isn’t one of them.
Steve_27

These friggin atheist should to go to hell already!
Steve_27

timcajun said:
The christians won’t like this, but the fake christians will go wild. This clearly is the state allowing religious involvement, which wouldn’t fly for tax dollars. Some muslin workers (in building) died that day, but if this sign were named Islam Way, Mecca Ave. Allah Drive, the “teas” would go wild, and it’s really the same thing, no matter how hard they try to “tea spin”! I hope they leave sign, but “teas” will demand their private cause is taken up and the same isn’t allowed for the other side! As always, anyone that wants church and state separated will be anti-American, even if it’s the law! God bless the “teas”!

First of all JO, find me the 7 islamic fireman that died that day rushing to the rescue, then we can start this talk. But even then, I would point out that it was other islamist screaming “Allah Akbar” while commiting the act and tell you it might just be offensive to the Americans that died while swami’s were killing for their beloved religion of peace.

Your an idiot.
http://TheDividedStatesBlog.com Publius219

Steve_27 said:
Your an idiot.

lol…*You’re
timcajun

Steve_27 says:
First of all JO, find me the 7 islamic fireman that died that day rushing to the rescue, then we can start this talk. But even then, I would point out that it was other islamist screaming “Allah Akbar” while commiting the act and tell you it might just be offensive to the Americans that died while swami’s were killing for their beloved religion of peace.
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Moron, do you ever get tried of being wrong? Who said “fireman” in my post? At least try to stick to the point, which you can’t do because of all your “tea hate” and blindness inside the “tea bubble”! The point is church mixed with state…. and tax dollars. If you learn to read, I said “leave the sign up”. They should be honored!
http://constitutionallibertarian.co.cc DavidKramer

THAT’S IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is supposed to be separation of church and state right, according to the libtards?

I say all government officials should be tested like witches!!!!!!!! If they float they are a witch! and should be burned at the stake. If they sink and drown, they are not guilty! LOL

Or something!
timcajun

DavidKramer says:
It is supposed to be separation of church and state right, according to the libtards?
………………………………………………
Lets, see which group is it that spin spews,… they’re the only party that follows the constitution?
Nature Freaky

Nature Freak is not a Christian or an Atheist..

That being said, in life you learn to pick and choose your battles.

‘NYC Atheists’ needs to find more worthy and righteous battles. This battle looks way too petty to me. BTW, militant in your face Atheism is just as bad as militant in your face Christianity.

Hemant Mehta was quoted “Let’s get the truth out of the way because it’s uncomfortable for most people: To say they’re getting an eternal reward for what they did is a lie. They died and they got no reward for their sacrifice.”
Science Damn you Hemant!
How obnoxious! You hurt your own cause. Thank you for making all us non Christians look bad.
Nature Freaky

Seven and Heaven have deep symbolic meaning in Muslim and Kabbalist systems. Seventh Heaven is the farthest of the concentric spheres containing the stars and constitute the dwelling place of God and the angels.

Seven and Heaven also have meaning in Hinduism. The seven highest heavens are called Vyahritis.
Nature Freaky

South Park did a great job tackling Atheism. These two episodes are classics.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s10e12-go-god-go
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s10e13-go-god-go-xii
perceptorii

That’s the new atheists for you: tirelessly fighting so that some day they’ll never have to be confronted with the fact that other people have different beliefs.
Dave Richards

timcajun said:
Moron, do you ever get tried of being wrong? Who said “fireman” in my post? At least try to stick to the point, which you can’t do because of all your “tea hate” and blindness inside the “tea bubble”! The point is church mixed with state…. and tax dollars. If you learn to read, I said “leave the sign up”. They should be honored!

Explain to all of us how a street sign “establishes” a religion.
timzank

“Such a declaration is as without factual basis as the most zealous profession of religious faith.”

Exactly. The irony is lost on atheists. Atheism is just another religion, and they are a devout sect aren’t they?
OxyCon

“Freedom OF Religion”, not “Freedom FROM Religion”.
timcajun

Dave Richards says:
Explain to all of us how a street sign “establishes” a religion.
…………………………………………………………………………….
Don’t waste “tea hate” on some twisted words. The only question is, were tax dollars used for a religious promotion? They will be able to show where “by law” (right or wrong) that’s not allowable! To taper the “tea spin”, I do support out of respect, the sign stays up! As much preaching as we hear about following the constitution, lets make sure we go all the way!(at all times)
Harry Flashman

Mind Your Own Business Avenue is the only street these ninnies need to be concerned about.
purveyor

OxyCon said:
“Freedom OF Religion”, not “Freedom FROM Religion”.

I get your point, but, the 1st amendment carries with it a freedom of, or, from association. In fact there is a unique body of Law that is at odds with Conservatives who prefer an “Originalist,” judicial interpretation.

The Boy Scouts wanted to exclude Homosexuals. The Court found in the Plaintiff’s favor, but, in doing so, had to stretch the Constitution by finding the word “Association,” hidden within the text.

Just like in Roe v. Wade, when the court found the word “Privacy.”

I guess it all depends on whether or not “it is your ox that is getting gored?” LOL
http://www.nukethefridge.com MartiniShark

These atheist control freaks always adhere to the phrase “Make no law respecting the establishment of religion”, as if that is the entire coverage of the subject. However they conveniently gloss over the very next phrase in that same sentence, “. . . or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
purveyor

MartiniShark said:
These atheist control freaks always adhere to the phrase “Make no law respecting the establishment of religion”, as if that is the entire coverage of the subject. However they conveniently gloss over the very next phrase in that same sentence, “. . . or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

Those right wing Religious fanatics always adhere to the phrase: “prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” However, they conveniently y omit: “Make no law respecting the establishment of religion.”
http://www.nukethefridge.com MartiniShark

And how is the street sign an establishment of a religion?
jeanieq

Change it to Atheist Highway to Hell.
timcajun

MartiniShark says:
And how is the street sign an establishment of a religion?
……………………….
I don’t know if you’re serious about the question, but religion is tied to heaven as their top desire to obtain for many groups! If you’re honest, by fact to relate the word to anything other than religion, is to describe happiness with an issue or item. If the street was “Happiness Way”, or ” Good Ave”, no issue! By fact this is an effort to honor in a religion type reference and by all means keep it up!
http://www.nukethefridge.com MartiniShark

timcajun said:
MartiniShark says:And how is the street sign an establishment of a religion?……………………….I don’t know if you’re serious about the question, but religion is tied to heaven as their top desire to obtain for many groups! If you’re honest, by fact to relate the word to anything other than religion, is to describe happiness with an issue or item. If the street was “Happiness Way”, or ” Good Ave”, no issue! By fact this is an effort to honor in a religion type reference and by all means keep it up!

You are confusing referencing to establishing. Nobody is being directed in how, or to whom/what to practice by the naming of a street. It is using a religious concept – heaven – but that is a concept observed by a wide range of religions, therefore establishment cannot be an issue. To over simplify, this would be like saying TOUCHDOWN AVENUE demands people become fans of the New York Jets, when it only references the game of football.
purveyor

MartiniShark said:
And how is the street sign an establishment of a religion?

Martin, I assume this comment was a response to mine?

My humor just reversed your statement, to make the point, ‘I agree with you’ that we are stretching the 1st amendment prohibitions, TOO far!

I do not want prayer in public school, but, the Street sign is innocuous.

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC
purveyor

jeanieq said:
Change it to Atheist Highway to Hell.

LOL

Rember, about a couple years ago, the Right Wingers, on this occasion, managed to get a Highway in Gallup New Mexico re-designated from 666, to 491?

Just as goofy! Ouch!

For over 2000 years, the world had a bit to much controlling and violent Religions. Then, in the last 100 years we got Marxism–Communism, (Atheism) which proceeded to kill and enslave millions.

We can’t win, can we?

Then again: “The Road of excess, leads to the palace of wisdom.” Maybe thats out of context? LOL
timcajun

MartiniShark says:
You are confusing referencing to establishing. Nobody is being directed in how, or to whom/what to practice by the naming of a street. It is using a religious concept – heaven – but that is a concept observed by a wide range of religions, therefore establishment cannot be an issue. To over simplify, this would be like saying TOUCHDOWN AVENUE demands people become fans of the New York Jets, when it only references the game of football.
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Last time I looked, Touchdown Ave, wasn’t an issue by law of church and state! By your terms, if the public school had on their wall a painting of “Allah “with all of his virgins, the “teas” couldn’t say anything because the school really makes reference to “Brenie Allah” from Jersey. When you go out into “left field” far enough and change the rules enough to your liking, you can always win! Remember “teas” always follow the law and constitution. Willie Mays couldn’t salvage some of these hits to left field!
http://www.nukethefridge.com MartiniShark

timcajun said:
MartiniShark says:Last time I looked, Touchdown Ave, wasn’t an issue by law of church and state! By your terms, if the public school had on their wall a painting of “Allah “with all of his virgins, the “teas” couldn’t say anything because the school really makes reference to “Brenie Allah” from Jersey. When you go out into “left field” far enough and change the rules enough to your liking, you can always win! Remember “teas” always follow the law and constitution. Willie Mays couldn’t salvage some of these hits to left field!

I honestly have zero idea how you arrived at any conclusion here, or what “teas” are. I was using a metaphor with the football reference (note how I pointed that out “To over simplify”), but if you insist on being obtuse then you are refusing to discuss. The sign made no reference at all to a deity, so your Allah reference makes zero sense here as well.

Let’s try it this way: by using “Heaven” on a street sign exactly what religion is the Federal government commanding you to partake in practicing?
timcajun

MartiniShark says:
Let’s try it this way: by using “Heaven” on a street sign exactly what religion is the Federal government commanding you to partake in practicing?
…………………………………
I don’t know if you just don’t get it or if this is a get in the “last word” need. Why would it be up to the government to decide which religion to be practiced? The only issue would have to be that heaven is referenced “more” as a major, vast part of religion for the U.S. (and it is really silly for you to act as if that’s not true) Again you keep going into left field to salvage,…”what I don’t know”! As I have stated several times, I hope they leave sign up, out of respect! I know you need the last word, so go ahead, this really is drawn out, with no point!
http://www.nukethefridge.com MartiniShark

(facepalm)

You must be trying to confuse, or you are simply in a state of confusion. I am NOT saying it is up to the government to decide. I asked HOW a street sign indicates that the government was deciding which religion — meaning that the government is NOT deciding, therefore this argument over the sign is ridiculous.
mediadoubt

I’m a committed atheist, and this makes me cringe. Pick your battles, guys!

As Christopher points out, this is almost entirely an expression of mythological leanings — which can be attributed to multiple cultures and religions — and only barely associated with Christianity, and even then in a very mild way.

With nutburgers like Bachmann and Santorum running around outside their butterfly nets, I don’t think serious people (believers or nonbelievers) need to spend much time arguing nonsense like this.