wow a list iof who conservatives HATE.

TIRESOME

Hey Tommy, are you equally outraged at the hate the left wing bloggers showed to Bush? Here’s a taste:

Daily KOs –
George Bush Fits Clinical Profile of a Psychopath to a Tee
by markthshark
Share this on Twitter – George Bush Fits Clinical Profile of a Psychopath to a Tee Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:18:02 PM PDT
“… somebody affected with a personality disorder marked by aggressive, violent, antisocial thought and behavior, and a lack of remorse or empathy.”

We on the progressive left in this country have long known that our fearless-frat-boy-in-chief is (to put it simply) not wrapped too tight. (and inherently evil) I myself have always had a uneasy feeling that Bush was either back on the sauce or perhaps taking regular medication for some undisclosed mental health condition. I mean, how is it possible that George Bush walks around every day, clueless and carefree; ne’er a qualm – no facial ticks or twitches, while knowing deep down that his corrupt, despotic-style of governance is alone responsible for growing tyranny here at home and endless death and destruction abroad?

He’s got to know, right?

Ultimately, George Bush wakes up everyday to a world in which he feels he’s entitled. His world view is both myopic and misanthropic. With a stroke of a pen and seemingly without a semblance of compunction or remorse, Bush has calmly and casually killed, injured, tortured, ethnically-cleansed — or condemned to a perpetual hell — as many as a million people or more.

So, how does he compartmentalize?

“Great” Moments in BDS (and Related left-wing hate)

A commenter at the Gay Patriot blog claims to doubt there was widespread hatred toward Bush expressed by the left: “Perhaps there were some as extreme on the left during the Bush years and I just never saw it ” Perhaps there was some discreet Bush hatred in the last eight years? Well, perhaps, this will jog his memory.

1. “Screw them!” — DailyKos founder Markos Zuniga, responding to the brutal murder of four Americans in Iraq, 2004,

2. “The growth in his abdomen is his head stuck up his a**. F**k him!! He is pure lying scum and should die ASAP!!”- Huffington Post commenter upon learning of Tony Snow’s terminal cancer, 2008.

3. “I’m praying for SIDS.” – Commenter on gay blog Pam’s House Blend regarding Dick Cheney’s grandson.

5. Bush-hater punches disabled teen. Unhinged moonbat threatens Republicans with rifle. Deranged Bush-hater chases Tampa woman with his car. Multiple assault and vandalism incidents against Republicans, 2004. America-hating HuffPost writer stabs lover 220 times, commits suicide, 2008.

6. “It’s not far-fetched” and “it’s not unreasonable” to believe that Bush blew up the levees after Hurricane Katrina to kill black people — Spike Lee, 2005

7. “Impeachment… no. Impalement!” Bill Durst, writing in The Progressive, 2007

8. “Jesus Christ and General Jackson too, can’t the Taliban do anything right? They must know we would be so gratefull (sic) to them for such a remarkable achievement.”– Huffington Post commenter expressing disappointment at a failed assassination attempt on Dick Cheney, 2008.

9. “I think this guy is a loser.”– Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) describing Bush to a group of high school students, 2005

10. “Downfall is a great movie about Hitler – God, Bruno Ganz may have made Hitler better than he was, I’m sure he did, but you know what? It gave me a little insight into the banality of evil. Bush is the same thing.” – Oliver Stone, comparing Bush to Hitler, 2008

11. “The president and vice president lied and a million innocent Iraqis died…We already know the State of the Union. It’s a lie.” – Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-OH, 2008

12. State of Vermont votes to impeach Bush, Brattleboro VT votes to arrest Bush and Cheney for “war crimes.”

13. Pulitzer-Prize winning Cartoonist Pat Oliphant compares Bush to Hitler. – 2005. Cartoonist Ted Rall: Death of Soldiers in Iraq raises average IQ at home. – 2007

14. Asked point-blank if the U.S. was a “terrorist nation,” Malveaux shot back: “Oh, Absolutely.” — Julianne Malveaux, 2005

15. L’il Bush – Comedy Central creates entire series devoted to nothing but Bush bashing, 2007. (See also, The Assassination of President Bush – TV Drama). (See also: The Assassination of President Bush – novel).

16. Comparing Bush and his family to the Corleones of “Godfather” fame, Air America host Randi Rhodes reportedly unleashed this zinger during her Monday night broadcast: “Like Fredo, somebody ought to take him out fishing and phuw. ” Rhodes then imitated the sound of a gunshot. – Randi Rhodes, Air America, 2004. (See also “Snipers wanted” superimposed on coverage of Bush accepting the Republican nomination, CBS, 2000. )

17. “Bush is a murder… there isn’t a day on the calendar that causes my hatred — and I do indeed mean hatred — of George W. Bush to bubble over the top more than Memorial Day.” – Huffington Post writer Bob Geiger, 2008. (“If he was walking across the street and I was driving my car…I just don’t know if he would make it.” – a fellow blogger, commenting.)

18. “General Pace — you have the power to fulfill your responsibility to protect the troops under your command. Indeed you have an obligation to do so. You can relieve the President of his command. Not of his Presidency. But of his military role as Commander-In-Chief…. In addition to relieving him of his command as Commander-In-Chief, you also have authority to place the President under MILITARY arrest.” – Huffington Post writer Martin Lewis urging a military coup d’etat, 2007

21. “As for those in the World Trade Center, well, really, let’s get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America’s global financial empire, the “mighty engine of profit” to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved and they did so both willingly and knowingly.” – Ward Churchill , 2001

Of course, this list is far from inclusive. There was also Alex Jones, making a cottage industry out of accusing Bush of blowing up the WTC, Andrew Sullivan’s obsessive deranged belief that Sarah Palin is not Trig Palin’s mother, any number of Daily Show and Colbert Report and Bill Maher jokes about Bush’s stupidity, washed up comedienne Margaret Cho calling Sarah Palin “evil,” countless anti-Bush diatribes by Keith Olbermann, Rosie O’Donnell’s entire tenure at ‘The View’, the MoveOn-dot-org ad that morphed Bush into Hitler, Code Pink protesting at Crawford and making a celebrity out of deranged moonbat Cindy Sheehan, Berkeley California trying to shut down a Marine recruiting station, Marine recruiters harassed and chased out of a job fair in Santa Cruz CA, Oliver Stone’s Bush-bashing pic W, along with other odious troop-bashing films like Redacted, Stop Loss, Rendition, Lions for Lambs, and In the Valley of Elah, Michael Moore’s Bush-Bashing Fahrenheit 911 which Hollywood rewarded with an Oscar (and Michael Moore allowed to sit in the president’s box at the 2004 DNC convention). Bush Hatred was not limited to the fringe, it infected the entirety of the left; from anonymous commenters on popular left-wing blogs up to the Democrat Party leadership and throughout the mainstream media.

The Washington Post even profiled one Maryscott O’Connor, a Bush-hater so deranged “I have become one of those people with all the bumper stickers on their car. I am this close to being one of those muttering people pushing a cart. I’m insane with rage and grief.”

And then there’s this deranged loser…

After I actually took the trouble to inform myself about politics a couple years ago, and learned the true extent of the damage Bush has done to this country, I have a constant boiling rage inside me. Absolutely constant. Never ceases, though sometimes I can get it down to a simmer so I can go out in public and hang out with friends without doing something stupid. On top of the anger is a generous dose of fear and anxiety, coming directly from the Bush administration’s march to fascism.

Frequently, I’m so intensely angry that I hit things. I just broke my bookshelf today because I hit it. My knuckles have decent callouses on them from hitting things, and various pieces of my property show signs of my rage. Thankfully, I’ve never turned violent against people since I was in.

So, yeah, anyone who failed to notice the Bush Derangement of the last eight years must have been living in a cave, on Mars, with both fingers shoved into his ears.

http://tehresistance.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/great-moments-in-bds-and-related-left-wing-hate/

This list is no big surprise. Picking out its flaws would take all day.

One name : General Betrayus

Harry Reid , Nancy Pelosi , Hillary Clinton , Barrack Obama ALL agreed at the time . Save your BS for Dailykos .

Dumbest story yet from a nameplate thief .

So, the bloggers could list whoever they wanted? They didn’t rank in order from the same list? That explains the rankings. Yet Tommy, in typical left-wing fashion, attempts to write a stupid column saying that conservatives think Barack Obama is worse than (insert your favorite bad person here). Get a life, Tommy. You’re schtick is old.

Tommy, maybe you and Helen Thomas can review this over a cup of tea … then write a joint article for us to see.

Now that would speak volumes!

Hey Tommy, are you equally outraged at the hate the left wing bloggers showed to Bush?

Mr. Christopher probably wrote some of that hate speak. This is a non story. Instead of letting this type of story alone he gives it credence by writing about. I suspect he is trying out for Media Matters.
Tommy only proves that there is just not enough hate to go around for him.
Sad and pathetic human.

I saw a media study the other day where over the last few weeks as Obama’s popularity has fallen, positive stories about him have increased. Tommy is doing his part by writing mind-numbingly stupid stories about evil conservatives.

Bloggers demonstrating the right-wing sludge of humanity. Low-born. Expendable. Disposable.

Convincing story….like Yg said, dishonesty is fine.

If you want the real whole story go to HotAir.com

This was sent to both liberal and conservatives bloggers, not just conservatives. Reason is in the real story, not this half assed pos.

Note, that all the comments above do not attempt to analyze the Conservative blogger list. Rather, they do the tiresome, “Oh yeah! What about them there lib lists!” Which, I guess is the commenters’ way of saying that they must agree with the list, and have no problem with people like Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earle Ray, and known traitors like Benedict Arnold, being left off the list. As long as Obama’s on it. I cannot begin to guess what kind of hate is in your hearts. There are pathetic left wingers as well, but this commentary is for you commenters on the right. You folks are really sad. Not disgusting, I guess, just sad….

Any hack could go on to a left-wing site and find enough deplorable material there for an equally-predictable column.

This is what happens when you take an agenda-driven former inusrance hack with no journalism background whatsoever and give them a forum. Then again, when the writer’s heores are the likes of Keith Olbermann, Helen Thomas and Alan Grayson, what else could be expected.

Tommy Christoper: The punch line of the White House Press Corps.

Concentration camps are the first order of the day for these Wingnuts. Then will come the comforting sounds of train whistles in the night. They must harvest what they sow.

I think Progressives need a list of the “21st century persons who have done damage to our nation: Feel free to add a few!!

Osama bin Laden,Terrorist, mastermind of 9/11
George W. Bush: fearmongering, financial ruin of nation, jobs killer, corporatist puppet.
Dick “the dick” Cheney, mastermind of self enrichment, corporatist puppeteer.
Rush Limbaugh: drugster, hate mongerer. egotist,
Glenn Beck: self acclaimed prophet of hate, racism and fear.
Donald Rumsfeld: liar, war monger, mass murderer in Iraq, Afghanistan.
Karl Rove: demagogue, right wing ideologue.
Pat Robertson: Satan’s seed, purveyor of hatred, enemy of the constitution.
John Bolton: racist, superiority complex, arrogant and damaging to US image around the world.
Rupert Murdoch: Australian ex-patriot who would destroy the US constitution by using freedom of speech and the power of media to enrich, elevate and expand his empire of right wing ideologies by deception, racism, and hatred.

CarmanK said:
I think Progressives need a list of the “21st century persons who have done damage to our nation: Feel free to add a few!! Osama bin Laden,Terrorist, mastermind of 9/11George W. Bush: fearmongering, financial ruin of nation, jobs killer, corporatist puppet.Dick “the dick” Cheney, mastermind of self enrichment, corporatist puppeteer.Rush Limbaugh: drugster, hate mongerer. egotist,Glenn Beck: self acclaimed prophet of hate, racism and fear.Donald Rumsfeld: liar, war monger, mass murderer in Iraq, Afghanistan.Karl Rove: demagogue, right wing ideologue.Pat Robertson: Satan’s seed, purveyor of hatred, enemy of the constitution.John Bolton: racist, superiority complex, arrogant and damaging to US image around the world.Rupert Murdoch: Australian ex-patriot who would destroy the US constitution by using freedom of speech and the power of media to enrich, elevate and expand his empire of right wing ideologies by deception, racism, and hatred.

I cannot believe that you left off one of the greatest haters that America has ever breeded: Rush Limbaugh. He began all of the hate radio, and gave voice to a bunch of people who before this had to voice their contempt for all things American in their bars or in front of their burning crosses.

Oops! Sorry, you did have Limbaugh. But you did not give him enough credit for the bigotry and hatred that he has spewed.

Next up, Tommy will do an article on all of the hatred on the far left blogs. He will. Won’t he?

writer said:
Next up, Tommy will do an article on all of the hatred on the far left blogs. He will. Won’t he?

Just as I predicted you would do at 3:08 this afternoon (see earlier comments). The far right (and far left) are so predictable in their inability to have a lucid discussion about the topic at hand.

We all know that there are haters on both the left and right, but surely we can all agree that Obama IS the worst President in the history of the republic

Sambeaux said:
We all know that there are haters on both the left and right, but surely we can all agree that Obama IS the worst President in the history of the republic

I can only assume you were not alive during George W. Bush’s eight years in office. And we can also assume that you have little knowledge of American history, or you might remember Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.

I know a little history and no President has trampled the Constitution, critically damaged the underpinnings of our free market economy, insulted our allies and exposed the population to threats from foreign enemies like this goober in the White House. (The only thing I can recall that I have agreed with him was his order to allow the Navy Seals to assassinate those Somali pirates, if he did).
Oh yeah, I would love to be back to Bush’s 5% unemployment and a much stronger economy. But I own my small business, make a payroll, and take risk everyday.. You, “alamo2″, however, probably, like Obama have always worked for the government and feed at the trough I pay for!

Sambeaux, you are completey full of it. Bush’s 5% unemployment? The economy collapsed under Bush. He signed TARP. But then it doesn’t appear you have much of a long term memory.

And you own a small business (or at least claim to. We’re all supposed to think you are some kind of hero or something? Praise you for your brave risk-taking every day? Big friggin’ deal.

Hey Pug. Ever heard of Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Fannie, Freddie? Probably not, because if you did, you’d realize that the economy dive was caused by the sub-prime mortgage collapse brought to you by Mssrs Frank and Dodd Actually TARP has turned out to be a pretty good deal as much of it has been repaid with interest.. But you probably get your news from MSNBC and Huffington Post as you play games on your cell phone.

I’m no hero for owning my own business, but someday it will dawn on you that it’s small businesses that hire Pugs like you when you get off the sofa and your unemployment runs out! Your boy, Obama is killing the little guy, but, thank God, it starts to unravel on November 2nd.

Oliver North and Pat Robertson are still alive. Before you point out that they’re not politicians, North was a Senatorial candidate in Virginia in 1994, and might have won if Nancy Reagan didn’t throw him under the bus the night before the election. Pat Robertson was a presidential candidate in 1988. Both lists are weighted far too heavily towards recent figures, though the conservative list is slightly worse in this regard. More importantly, the criteria used to create these lists doesn’t allow for assumptions about who is worse than whom. Most importantly, these lists are stupid. As little as scientific method can be applied to history and politics, these lists and this story completely fail to even pretend to try.

Sambeaux –

Abraham Lincoln, who is in one of the top spots of pretty much everyone’s list of great presidents, declared war without the consent of congress, had dissenters jailed during elections in Maryland, had federal troops at polling places to intimidate voters during those same elections, broke West Virginia off of Virginia in violation of the Constitution, suspended habeus corpus, raised an army, and several other Constitutional violations. He also very nearly precipitated war with England, both arguably an ally and vastly superior power, by having men taken off the British ship “Trent” (the very thing that drove the Americans to war with Britian in 1812), nearly precipitated war with France by blockading Southern ports, and even after the US miraculously managed to avoid war with either of those more powerful nations, only forestalled their diplomatic intercession on behalf of the South with the Emancipation Proclaimation, another violation of the Constitution. The devastation visited upon the South under his orders, most famously Sherman’s March, did more critical damage to our economy than, well, everything before and since. A conservative estimate of the cost of the destruction (not counting the costs of actually fighting the war, the casualties, etc) in 2010 adjusted dollars (as a percentage of GDP) is $4.9 trillion. There are other examples of presidents that “trampled the Constitution, critically damaged the underpinnings of our free market economy, insulted our allies and exposed the population to threats from foreign enemies,” but Lincoln is a good one to use since he’s so universally admired.

As far as not agreeing with anything Obama’s done, I’m sure you’d agree with recognizing the illegitimate but pro-American government of Honduras and sending an additional 40,000 troops to Afghanistan. There are many other actions he’s taken that a Republican president would have as well, but those things don’t get as much press because both sides have a vested interest in looking like they diametrically oppose each other.

The questionnaire was mailed out without instructions. Because it was from a political blogger, to political bloggers, some assumed the questionnaire pertained to political figures. Others, thought they should include murders & rapists. Therefore to aggregate them and put a list in order doesn’t work because no one was picking from the same set of individuals. Tommy knows this but if he pointed it out it wouldn’t fit with his “Conservatives are evil” meme.

What Tommy did here was shameful but hey, it’s a piece by Tommy Christopher.

lonestar77 said:
The questionnaire was mailed out without instructions. Because it was from a political blogger, to political bloggers, some assumed the questionnaire pertained to political figures. Others, thought they should include murders & rapists. Therefore to aggregate them and put a list in order doesn’t work because no one was picking from the same set of individuals. Tommy knows this but if he pointed it out it wouldn’t fit with his “Conservatives are evil” meme.

What Tommy did here was shameful but hey, it’s a piece by Tommy Christopher.

That’s right, I put a gun to their heads and made them publish this stupid list.

Dave Be said:
Oliver North and Pat Robertson are still alive. Before you point out that they’re not politicians, North was a Senatorial candidate in Virginia in 1994, and might have won if Nancy Reagan didn’t throw him under the bus the night before the election. Pat Robertson was a presidential candidate in 1988. Both lists are weighted far too heavily towards recent figures, though the conservative list is slightly worse in this regard. More importantly, the criteria used to create these lists doesn’t allow for assumptions about who is worse than whom. Most importantly, these lists are stupid. As little as scientific method can be applied to history and politics, these lists and this story completely fail to even pretend to try.

Yeah, and Bozo the Clown ran for President, too, but we still call him Bozo the Clown.

I don’t think these lists are ever intended to be scientific, but rather, to start a conversation. My end of the conversation is, “Damn, this list is stupid!”

As I said in my critique, though, that’s not even its tragic flaw. I would have greatly enjoyed some commentary to go along with the list, stupid or not. Maybe they were trying to be funny. We’ll never know.

Arthur Clough said:
Hey Tommy, are you equally outraged at the hate the left wing bloggers showed to Bush?

Mr. Christopher probably wrote some of that hate speak. This is a non story. Instead of letting this type of story alone he gives it credence by writing about. I suspect he is trying out for Media Matters.
Tommy only proves that there is just not enough hate to go around for him.
Sad and pathetic human.

I don’t remember even being outraged by this list, it’s just funny. At least I get to collect another nickel for yet another commenter “cleverly” turning the tables. This is the laziest sort of argument, since you haven’t even bothered to check what I’ve ever written about Bush, and you ignore the substance of the critique based on it.

And I’m flattered that you think it’s me (not the 43 conservative bloggers that made up the list) who “gives it credence.” I look forward to your similar complaints to Matt Lewis and Jim Geraghty.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/08/14/bloggers-matthew-yglesias-and-john-hawkins-accidentally-prove-po/

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/243264/some-my-fellow-righty-bloggers-need-broader-definition-worst-figure

lonestar77 said:
The questionnaire was mailed out without instructions. Because it was from a political blogger, to political bloggers, some assumed the questionnaire pertained to political figures. Others, thought they should include murders & rapists. Therefore to aggregate them and put a list in order doesn’t work because no one was picking from the same set of individuals. Tommy knows this but if he pointed it out it wouldn’t fit with his “Conservatives are evil” meme. What Tommy did here was shameful but hey, it’s a piece by Tommy Christopher.

I found the original email on someone else’s blog that contained the instructions. Not only were there instructions, but they twice say “20 worst figures in American history.” In any case, a very common complaint about polls is bias in the question. If John Hawkins asked “When did you stop beating your wife?” that’s on him.

Tommy Christopher said:
Yeah, and Bozo the Clown ran for President, too, but we still call him Bozo the Clown.

Comparing the campaigns of Oliver North and Pat Robertson to Bozo the Clown’s campaign isn’t really fair. They are both political figures, Bozo is not. It’s about as fair as…well…tallying up the number of living “liberal figures” on the conservative list and comparing it to the number of living “politicians” on the liberal list.

Dave Be said:
Comparing the campaigns of Oliver North and Pat Robertson to Bozo the Clown’s campaign isn’t really fair.

You’re right, I owe Bozo an apology.

How many innocent civilians did McVeigh kill with his truck-bomb?

How many innocent civilians did Obama kill with his drone attacks?

Case Closed!

Tommy Christopher says:
August 14, 2010 at 10:36 pm (Quote)

No you didn’t put a gun to their head, but your the one who chose to misinterpret the list and attack conservatives with it. You added 2 + 2 and came up with 13, in order to attack conservatives. I told you your word games don’t work. Stop being so foolish. You’re embarrassing yourself.

lonestar77 said:
Tommy Christopher says:
August 14, 2010 at 10:36 pm (Quote)

No you didn’t put a gun to their head, but your the one who chose to misinterpret the list and attack conservatives with it. You added 2 + 2 and came up with 13, in order to attack conservatives. I told you your word games don’t work. Stop being so foolish. You’re embarrassing yourself.

No, you said I gave it credence simply by writing about it. That must mean you think it ought not to have credence. Now, you’re changing your criticism to…I’m not sure what. My description of the list is accurate, including the methodology. If you disagree with the commentary, please quote the section with which you disagree, and explain why.

I’d also like to point out to you “shoot the messenger” types that I didn’t go looking for this, and it’s not some obscure one-off. This was 43 conservative blogs, and I found out about it because a conservative pointed it out, and several conservatives have since made similar criticisms. The fact that you’re so invested in shooting the messenger that you’ll defend this idiocy really proves my point.

Tommy Christopher said:
If you disagree with the commentary, please quote the section with which you disagree, and explain why.

“Obama Way Worse Than McVeigh, Better Than Jimmy Carter”

The votes were unranked, so you can’t infer that one person on it is “worse” than another.

“if you’re going to include …how do you leave off …”

You can’t tell who got a couple votes but didn’t get enough to make the top 20 cut. Although I doubt it, one or two of the respondents could have compiled a thoughtful and accurate list and had their votes nullified by foolish and partisan votes of the other respondents. Since it wasn’t a collaborative effort, saying “as selected by 43 conservative blogs” isn’t really accurate. The methodology of the list’s compilation was to choose the lowest common denominators – an obvious flaw in the methodology, not your story, but it’s a point that you should have mentioned.

“18 of the top 25 are liberal figures, 11 of whom are still alive…[last year's list compiled by polling liberal bloggers] contained only one living politician…”

Hello Apple, I’m Orange. Man, it’s like looking in a mirror!

CarmanK said:
I think Progressives need a list of the “21st century persons who have done damage to our nation: Feel free to add a few!!

Osama bin Laden,Terrorist, mastermind of 9/11
George W. Bush: fearmongering, financial ruin of nation, jobs killer, corporatist puppet.
Dick “the dick” Cheney, mastermind of self enrichment, corporatist puppeteer.
Rush Limbaugh: drugster, hate mongerer. egotist,
Glenn Beck: self acclaimed prophet of hate, racism and fear.
Donald Rumsfeld: liar, war monger, mass murderer in Iraq, Afghanistan.
Karl Rove: demagogue, right wing ideologue.
Pat Robertson: Satan’s seed, purveyor of hatred, enemy of the constitution.
John Bolton: racist, superiority complex, arrogant and damaging to US image around the world.
Rupert Murdoch: Australian ex-patriot who would destroy the US constitution by using freedom of speech and the power of media to enrich, elevate and expand his empire of right wing ideologies by deception, racism, and hatred.

Carman K seems to have it all right down to a T

I just think he said it all

Tommy Christopher says:
August 15, 2010 at 11:34 am (Quote)
Mediaite Staff
blah, blah, blah

The whole premise is WRONG. I guarantee if you ask all those bloggers, they won’t say “Obama is way worse than McVeigh”. Yet, that’s what the headline writer wrote based on your commentary. It’s disingenuous. You did what left-wing media types always do, you take a snippet of something from one place, a snippet from another, add them together and use it as a club to bash conservatives. It’s dishonest.

Conservatives don’t think “Obama is way worse than McVeigh”. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. What you’re trying to do is paint a picture where conservatives are sympathetic towards Tim McVeigh. It’s wrong & you know it. But, it’s left-wing journolistism 101. Congrats, you’ve earned an “A”.

You should be ashamed of your tactics. Luckily, people like you don’t have free reign anymore. You can be exposed as the hyper-partisan bomb-throwers you are.

Tommy Christopher said:
If you disagree with the commentary, please quote the section with which you disagree, and explain why.

Don’t waste your time lonestar. I’d say Tommy made himself quite clear with his references to Bozo earlier in this thread. His idea of ‘objectivity’ and ‘unbiased reporting’ are well documented. His work (like this fine piece of journOlism) does a great service to political discourse in Our Great Country. God Bless America!

The truth is…. I hope Tommy and those like him will continue their fine work. They have the (D) party headed in excactly the RIGHT direction. The more the truth is exposed the more people can make an informed decision. The ‘new media’ plays a crucial role in getting people all of the information they need.

I am so encouraged by the developments of the past decade! Ever since the 2000 election there has been a palpable transformation in the air. So many more journalists making their true feelings crystal clear… so many more people finding their voice through blogs and social networking. It’s the best thing to ever happen to America! It’s FREE SPEECH AT IT’S FINEST and it makes me even more proud to be an American! Viva la First Amendment!!

I hope more and more journalists will continue the current trend of expressing themselves honestly. We should encourage fine articles like this one from Mr. Christopher….. Keep up the good work Tommy!

FearMonger, you have a very poor understanding of journalism.

Tommy never said he was unbiased. This site is not the New York Times’ news section.

Tommy’s opener make it clear where he stands (“If you needed further evidence that the American right has gone off the rails.”)

Don’t like it? Tell us why.

Disagree? Tell us why.

But don’t be a retard and cry “lib media” because you sound like a baby.

Seriously.

When a large group of people gets their “news” from Beck, Hannity, and Sarah Palin, of course the current President will be at the top of their evil list. If he agreed with them on something, they would immediately take the other side. If he lowers their taxes again, they will still whine about too many taxes (even though the LACK of taxes is ruining this nation.) If he pulls troops out, he’s a wimp, but if he sends more in, he doesn’t understand the big picture. I’m sure he spends zero time worrying about the right, because, unlike them, he is actually working for this country, every day. They are perfectly angry that we have not had an attack in two years, that the war in Iraq may be drawing down, and that people disagree with their concept of religion and the constitution. Tough. They will be more disgruntled when they lose seats in November. People like Angell and Paul are not electable.
As far as attacks on Bush…he ruined this country’s economy, is responsible for two wars that he borrowed from China for, and is probably responsible for missing the signs of 9-11. Not to mention his spying and torture, which are against the Constitution the right purports to uphold, except when a Republican uses it for charmin.

shootfromthehip said:
Tommy never said he was unbiased. This site is not the New York Times’ news section

LMFAO! Thanks shoot! You drove home my point perfectly!

“The New York Times News section”…. that pillar of objective journalism. I think you sell Mediaite short though shoot… they (especially Mr. Christopher) are much more similar to the NYT ‘News’ than you give them credit for.

Retard, know thyself.

as for this….

shootfromthehip said:
Don’t like it? Tell us why.
Disagree? Tell us why.

I thought my post was quite clear. Not only do I “like it”….I LOVE IT!!!

What’s to ‘disagree’ with? “The American right has gone off the rails” and Tommy gave us a perfect, representative example of ‘the right’ to back up his statement. JournOlism at it’s finest!

And shoot, I ‘understand’ journalism just fine…. do you?

And speaking of FINE JOURNALISTS… I just love it when one issues a challenge like this….

“Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama”.
_________

Whaddayathink shootfromthehip? Have you seen any pertinent ‘examples’ of such behavior?

You’ll have to do better than this from J. Garofalo ……

” let’s be very honest about what this is about. It’s not about bashing Democrats, it’s not about taxes, they have no idea what the Boston tea party was about, they don’t know their history at all. This is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism straight up. That is nothing but a bunch of teabagging rednecks. And there is no way around that”.
____________

The jornOlist who issued this challenge dismissed the above ‘example’ (and many others) for various reasons. I guess they didn’t meet his standard of proof. The funny thing is… that same journOlist posted a link to one of his own articles in which he himself accused Ms. Garofalo of calling people RACISTS simply for disagreeing with Obama….. seemingly defeating his own challenge. Maybe my reading comprehension is lacking…..
.
here’s the link he posted….

http://dailydose.us/2009/04/17/todays-quickies-andjaneane/

and here’s the quote that (IMO) makes that journOlist APPEAR to be talking out of both sides of his mouth…

“I’ll be the first to admit that the amount of hostility toward Barack Obama that is connected to his race is much higher than anyone is admitting, but to paint the entire movement, or even a majority of it, that way is ridiculous and counter-productive. Some guy brings his kids out to the park dressed in colonial garb to bitch about his taxes, and suddenly he’s a racist?”
_____________

I don’t know….. I’m certainly nowhere near the caliber of journOlist that Mediaite employs but… I’m finding it hard to reconcile both of those positions. Perhaps it’s just me and my ‘poor understanding of journalism’.

I’m open to explanations, shootfromthehip. Can you please help me understand how the same FINE JOURNALIST could make both of these statements with a straight face?

“Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama”.
______________________________

” I’ll be the first to admit that the amount of hostility toward Barack Obama that is connected to his race is much higher than anyone is admitting, but to paint the entire movement, or even a majority of it, that way is ridiculous and counter-productive. Some guy brings his kids out to the park dressed in colonial garb to bitch about his taxes, and suddenly he’s a racist?”

FearMonger said:
“Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama”.

I can’t find where Tommy said that, can you give a link?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/exclusive-helen-thomas-tells-mediaite-how-she-feels-about-fox-news-front-row-seat/#comments

Tommy will tell you that he said it. He confimed that he stood behind it several days later, after numerous ‘examples’ had been given. Will link to that thread too if you like.

Tommy had chimed in with this….

““Helen is not an anti-Semite, and neither am I. You’re allowed to have a political opinion about Israel without being labeled as such, at least by reasonable people.”
_____________

to which FredCPA responded with this…

“thats funny, ya cant disagree with the current administration and have differing political opinions without being called racist. weird huh?”
_____________

Then Tommy answered with this snarky jewel….

“This is the stupidest straw man since the Tea Party Production of The Wiz. Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama.”
_____________

That’s when I chimed in with my own snark….

“Good grief dude…. you really are quite the ‘journalist’.

One word. GAROFALO.”
_____________

and Tommy commenced with the usual lib tactics of playing semantics and moving the goal posts. I’ve provided numerous ‘examples’…some on the Helen Thomas thread and some on other threads. I mean truthfully, it’s the stupidest thing I can remember someone doubling down on. You gotta be willfully blind and woefully ignorant to think that was true for more than 2 seconds.

Like they say, you can lead a horse to water…..

One more thing …. I understand that Tommy REALLY REALLY WISHES that this ‘brand’ of racism didn’t exist. Hell, I believe most of us wish NO racism existed… but wishing it does not make it so. That’s why I find it ever so rich that Tommy, in that same thread, had the nerve to say this….

“Huh? We shouldn’t call anyone a racist? Are you kidding me? This is the problem, this sick denial that racism exists.

“I asked you for one example where I called someone a racist who didn’t deserve it. Honestly, I can’t even think of a time when I called someone a racist, period, in print. But failing to call out racism is exactly how it takes root once more.”
_________________

I call special attention to Tommy’s own words….

“THIS IS THE PROBLEM, THE SICK DENIAL THAT RACISM EXISTS”

and

“FAILING TO CALL OUT RACISM IS EXACTLY HOW IT TAKES ROOT ONCE MORE.”
_______________

Mr. Tommy Christopher, YOU don’t get to pick and choose what qualifies as the truth. You can continue to deny and ignore what has been laid out clearly by myself and others…. that is your prerogative. We can continue to call you out and prove your hypocrisy WITH YOUR OWN WORDS.

Of course, if you had just admitted up front that it was a stupid thing to say (which it was)…. then nobody would still be talking about it. The problem here isn’t the obvious racism that you refuse to acknowledge, or the ‘strawman’ that was not a strawman at all but a valid point of discussion, or Obama or Garofalo or FearMongers or any other distraction….

The problem here is a lack of integrity. A refusal to acknowledge the truth when it is clear. A preference to become obstinate and obtuse when faced with one’s own mistake instead of simply admitting it.

It’s about the credibility of journalists…. and the evidence is all over these threads. If you can’t be trusted to tell the truth about something as trivial and clear-cut as this then how can you POSSIBLY be trusted to honestly and faithfully flesh out the truth on important and muddy issues in the WH briefing room?

Anybody who reads what has been written here can decide for themselves whether or not Mr. Christopher is a biased leftwing hack. I say to NOT be a hack you must first make every effort to be fair …and I’m not seeing FAIRNESS coming from Tommy.

Again, “FearMonger,” you are just not getting it.

See the top of this page?

See the bright yellow?

It says in BIG BLOCK LETTERS the word “columnists.”

That means, genius, that Tommy is allowed to have an opinion.

Even a (gasp) left wing one.

Don’t like it?

Go read one of the thousands of right-leaning websites.

shootfromthehip said:
Again, “FearMonger,” you are just not getting it. See the top of this page? See the bright yellow? It says in BIG BLOCK LETTERS the word “columnists.” That means, genius, that Tommy is allowed to have an opinion. Even a (gasp) left wing one. Don’t like it? Go read one of the thousands of right-leaning websites.

Again. “shootfromthehip”, you are just not getting it.

See my posts?

See the truth spelled out?

I made my case clearly that Tommy Christopher issued a challenge and it was met.

That means, genius, that Tommy should acknowledge that his assertion was bogus.

Even though (gasp) you may not be able to see the truth that is right in front of your face.

Don’t like it?

I really don’t give a shit.

FearMonger said:
“I asked you for one example where I called someone a racist who didn’t deserve it. Honestly, I can’t even think of a time when I called someone a racist, period, in print. But failing to call out racism is exactly how it takes root once more.”

Apparently in his first post, he meant “…one example of someone being called a racist BY ME simply for…” He probably should have been more careful, but on the other hand, the idea that nobody has EVER been called a racist by ANYONE just for disagreeing with Obama is absurd on its face, so he probably didn’t think he needed to. You can be called a racist for a whole lot less than that. I once had a coworker tell me, with a completely straight face, “All white people are racists.” I knew you were taking it out of context, but I hoped that the context would be one in which that Garafolo link would satisfy the demand, so I could needle him over it. He’s right, this is straw man bullshit.

What sucks is you could really be nailing him here. Helen Thomas’s comments absolutely were antisemitic, or at least anti-Zionist, and easily fall under the criteria of New Antisemitism. Some people tried to cover for her by saying she was talking about the occupied Palestinian territories (Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and West Bank), but she specifically said the jews should go back to Poland, Germany, etc. She didn’t say they should get the hell out of the West Bank and Gaza Strip and Golan Heights and go back to Israel (which I can totally get behind), she said “Palestine,” and clarified it by saying “Why push people out who have lived there for centuries?” Whether you think the Palestinians got a raw deal after WW2 (they did) or not, Israel was established legally by the UN and the people living there have made their homes there for over 60 years. Incidentally, they would have gotten a much better deal if everyone had just played nice. Nobody can call for a diaspora of a people without being biased against them. But instead of focusing on the real issue, you’re wasting your time pretending not to understand what he meant when he said “Give me one example…” even though he clarified it in a later comment on the same article. Great job.

I’d like to clarify something in my last post before someone calls me out on it. I don’t mean that I can get behind the Jews living in the occupied territories being forced to leave, I mean that I can get behind the IDF forces occupying those territories being forced to leave. I think Israel (and probably the US and some other Israel supporters) should pay reparations for the land used to build the settlements, and offer generous terms for anyone living in them that does want to return to Israel, but the people who choose to stay and live under Palestinian government should be free to do so, and the international community should guarantee their safety.

FearMonger said:
Tommy will tell you that he said it. He confimed that he stood behind it several days later, after numerous ‘examples’ had been given. Will link to that thread too if you like.

Here’s the thread and post………..

http://www.mediaite.com/online/stormfront-promotes-deleted-glenn-beck-white-power-twitter-fave/

Tommy Christopher says:
August 8, 2010 at 12:57 am Tommy Christopher(Quote)
Mediaite Staff
FearMonger said:
And you still refuse to answer the simple question …DO YOU STAND BEHIND THIS STATEMENT?”

Yes, I do.

_______________

Hell, somebody reminded me on that thread of what Shirley Sherrod said that blows Tommy’s BS right out of the water too……

“You know, I haven’t seen such a mean-spirited people as I’ve seen lately over this issue of health care. Some of the racism we thought was buried. Didn’t it surface? Now, we endured eight years of the Bush’s and we didn’t do the stuff these Republicans are doing because you have a black President.”
_________

Yeah… we know. The opposition to the HC Bill is ‘because we have a black President.’ Same old story… it couldn’t be for any other reason, could it Tommy?

How many ‘examples’ is that btw??

Dave Be said:
Apparently in his first post, he meant “…one example of someone being called a racist BY ME simply for…”

Absolutely wrong. Did you read the whole thread?

You are right about this though…..

Dave Be said:
the idea that nobody has EVER been called a racist by ANYONE just for disagreeing with Obama is absurd on its face

And that’s EXACTLY what he meant and he confirmed it on the other thread I linked to. I said several times that I was stunned that he would double down on such a ridiculous claim but it was obvious that he was defending all the examples I gave him so …. when you say this….

Dave Be said:
Apparently in his first post, he meant “…one example of someone being called a racist BY ME simply for…

I call bullshit. That was never the stipulation and he never made that case. Only you have.

Dave Be said:
you’re wasting your time pretending not to understand what he meant when he said “Give me one example…” even though he clarified it in a later comment on the same article. Great job.

Show me where “he clarified it in a later comment on the same article”. You know where the thread is now. Copy it and prove me wrong.

I suggest you take the time to read the thread and check the links and comprehend what is written instead of making shit up.

and btw…. I choose what I feel is worthy of pusuing. My pet peeve is ABSOLUTES as they very very rarely hold up to scrutiny and should not be used by any serious person. So…. thanks for your concern about what I chose to ‘nail him’ for but…. I didn’t ask for your advice.

Tommy made an absurd statement and when you read that thread it is absolutely unambiguous. He later confirmed it after defending some of the examples I had given him. Not once did he argue that the statememnt I quoted had anything to do with people being called racist BY HIM.

You are the only one who even thought of that stupid defense.

Great Job.

Fearmonger –

The full post of your original quote is:

Tommy Christopher says:
August 2, 2010 at 7:18 pm Tommy Christopher(Quote)
Mediaite Staff
FredCPA said:
“Helen is not an anti-Semite, and neither am I. You’re allowed to have a political opinion about Israel without being labeled as such, at least by reasonable people.” thats funny, ya cant disagree with the current administration and have differing political opinions without being called racist. weird huh?

This is the stupidest straw man since the Tea Party Production of The Wiz. Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama.

Earlier in the thread, he’d been called an Antisemite and had someone say he’d make a great Nazi. He was responding to accusations leveled at him, not at every accusation made against anyone by anyone ever. FredCPA implied that Tommy doesn’t think that people can disagree with the current administration without being racist, and his response was to that comment. In the very next post, he said:

Tommy Christopher says:
August 2, 2010 at 7:21 pm Tommy Christopher(Quote)
Mediaite Staff
notsofast said:
TC, your calling people racists and your calling Helen not anti-Semitic makes neither such.

Who did I call a racist that didn’t deserve it? Hell, who did I even call a racist?

Again, clearly responding to charges leveled at him, though this time he specifically said “Who did I call a racist…”

Later in the conversation, he made this post:

Tommy Christopher says:
August 3, 2010 at 8:57 am Tommy Christopher(Quote)
Mediaite Staff
BatBoy said:
Tommy I’ll answer that….

How about not calling anyone a racist…it is simply used as a conversation stopper and has been used that way for years.

Huh? We shouldn’t call anyone a racist? Are you kidding me? This is the problem, this sick denial that racism exists.

I asked you for one example where I called someone a racist who didn’t deserve it. Honestly, I can’t even think of a time when I called someone a racist, period, in print. But failing to call out racism is exactly how it takes root once more.

In the second and third posts, he asked for one example where he called someone a racist who didn’t deserve it. If, by some stretch of stupid, he DID mean that NOBODY EVER has accused ANYONE of being racist for disagreeing with the president, then I stand corrected, but how could he possibly mean that? That he defended some specific examples doesn’t change his original meaning, though his defense of the Garafolo interview was pretty weak. On the outside chance that this is all some stupid trick where he’s looking for someone to say the exact words “Soandso is a racist because he disagrees with the President,” I’ll bite.

Fearmonger is a racist because he disagrees with the President.

One other thing, Fearmonger. I wasn’t giving you advice. I was pointing out where you failed to score a legitimate point in favor of a stupid one, and explaining what that legitimate point was for the entertainment, education, and edification of the entire audience. The world does not revolve around you. Trolling discussion threads about different articles to harp on the same tired bullshit because you think you won or something isn’t going to get you anywhere.

Dave Be said:
If, by some stretch of stupid, he DID mean that NOBODY EVER has accused ANYONE of being racist for disagreeing with the president, then I stand corrected, but how could he possibly mean that?

That’s exactly what I’ve been asking, and exactly what Tommy has been defending all this time. It’s stupid, I know, but that’s what he said. Your argument doesn’t add up Dave. Tommy was responding to other posters in the two examples you gave where he referred to himself. It’s quite clear in the post about the ‘strawman’ exactly what he was saying. To referesh your memory it was this and it was unambiguous…

“Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama.”

and btw Dave, I never took this quote ‘out of context’. It doesn’t require ‘context’. And it means exactly what it says. Tommy never denied that or qualified it in any way except to say that Garofalo’s comment wasn’t ‘simply’ because of disagreement… which IMO ‘simply’ meant that the other factor was the ‘ignorance’ of the Tea Party … which really only fortified my position. Whether you call someone ‘Racist’ or ‘Ignorant racist’ is just a matter of taste, right? They are the same.

If what you argue is true, Dave…. then show me where he admits that it exists. If, as you say, ‘by some stretch of stupid’ he actually DIDN’T mean what he wrote the way he wrote it and the way he confirmed it… then where is his acknowledgement that it exists? I really don’t even know why I am entertaining your ignorance right now but, since you are obviously too lazy to read what he wrote on the threads that I linked to I will spell it out for you.

From the second thread I linked to…

“

Tommy Christopher said:
I refuted the examples you gave me for awhile, but conversing with you is a fool’s errand. You only seem concerned with declaring what a (faceless, anonymous) man you are by calling me names (from safely behind said anonymity) and declaring yourself correct. If you want to be a man, act like one and have a conversation.

If you’re willing to do that, I’m happy to have a look at the last example you gave me, and discuss it. Throw in a link, and try to be civilized.

Clearly, he thinks he is refuting my examples one by one (but actually he skipped several)… then when I ask him if he stands behind his original statement he says “Yes, I do,” PERIOD.

I have no idea WTF you are talking about when you say this…

Dave Be said:
On the outside chance that this is all some stupid trick where he’s looking for someone to say the exact words “Soandso is a racist because he disagrees with the President,”

except to (once again) distract from the OBVIOUS by pointing to the absurd…. which has been the sum total of your ‘analysis’ thus far. I mean seriously, you’re actually proposing THE O.J. DEFENSE…..

“He couldn’t have possibly been that stupid so…he must be innocent”.

It was a stupid thing to say… especially for someone who speaks so poetically about ‘denial of racism.’ That’s why I called him on it and I didn’t ‘fail’ at anything. I made my point and I will continue to ‘harp on the same tired bullshit’ until Tommy acknowledges that he was wrong.

Honestly, I fully expected him to have a ‘V8 moment’ and say “DAMN! What was I thinking? There are WAY too many leftwing nuts out there for me to be issuing challenges like that…. especially after I just called FredCPA’s argument ‘the stupidest strawman’”.

But here’s the problem Dave,,,, you can try to ignore it or justify it if you wish. I believe Tommy really doesn’t see where anyone was called ‘RACIST’ simply for disagreeing with Obama. He’s given me no reason to think otherwise. You seem to think it’s not possible for Tommy to be THAT delusional so…. why don’t you just ask him?

Mr. Tommy Christopher… you didn’t REALLY mean it the way it sounded when you said this, right?…..

“Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama.”

Dave Be said:
He’s right, this is straw man bullshit.

Wrong again. There was no strawman, there was a valid parallel drawn by FredCPA. It’s funny to me that TC used the words ‘at least by reasonable people’ and ever since then he has been COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE about his own double-standards.

Here’s how it went…. there is no need to sidetrack the thread with Tommy’s responses to other posters as this discussion was in and of itself. The only point of confusion is the original comment by ‘Facebook User’. When Tommy quoted it the name appeared as ‘mproust’. I don’t understand WHY but and it really doesn’t matter. Here’s the comment that started the discussion….

Facebook User says:
August 2, 2010 at 4:52 pm Facebook User(Quote)
10 2
Tommy Christopher’s anti-Semitism continues to amaze me. First he was silent when Keith Olbermann called Dan Abrams father (Floyd) a Quisling, and now he’s actually drooling over Helen Thomas.
______________

Tommy responded with….

“Wow, that’s fucked up. Helen is not an anti-Semite, and neither am I. You’re allowed to have a political opinion about Israel without being labeled as such, at least by reasonable people.

Maybe you should try reading the site you’re actually on before you make such a huge factual mistake. To my knowledge, I’m the ONLY on who called Olbermann out for that.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/is-keith-olbermann-losing-it/”
________________

That’s when FredCPA said….

“thats funny, ya cant disagree with the current administration and have differing political opinions without being called racist. weird huh?
____________

Do you see the perfectly valid parallel??

TC wrote: “You’re allowed to have a political opinion about Israel without being labeled as such, at least by reasonable people”

FredCPA wrote: “thats funny, ya cant disagree with the current administration and have differing political opinions without being called racist. weird huh?”
___________

THERE IS NO ‘STRAWMAN’ AT ALL….. MUCH LESS A ‘STUPID’ ONE. It was a perfectly relevant reference to a prejudice that most certainly exists. NOT ONLY THAT….Tommy Christophers refusal to acknowledge the accusations of racism I have been pointing to….that FredCPA referenced in his ‘stupidest strawman argument’…. prove that he does indeed believe that no such thing exists. Tommy is clearly upset about being labeled an ‘anti-semite’ but fails to even acknowledge the people who have been labeled ‘racist’ by the left. That makes him a hypocrite.

But of course, he HAD to take that position or else he would owe FredCPA an apology for the ‘stupidest straw man’ insult. To admit that the there are indeed NUMEROUS examples of people being called RACIST simply for disagreeing with Obama would make his ‘stupidest strawman’ comment look ….. well… STUPID. Do you get that Dave? Read this paragraph again por favor.

So… Tommy backed up his stupid ‘Give me one example’ challenge by ‘refuting’ a few of the most obvious ‘examples’. His lame ‘disqualification’ of Garofalo’s statement was pathetic but the goal post moving on Jimmy Carters statement were truly deserved of ridicule. If you want a good example of subjective interpretation that is it….they are near the bottom of that Helen Thomas thread. I quickly and easily countered his silly ‘refutation’ with more quotes from JC that clearly proved that HE DID INDEED accuse people of racism simply because they disagreed with Obama…. which btw…. was the challenge set forth by Tommy.

Since then I have given many more examples…. heck, it’s not hard, they keep coming up in real time… and Tommy continues to ignore the truth and stand behind his statement.

I know it’s hard to believe but that’s what happened. I was incredulous myself but as it has unfolded it has become more and more clear that Tommy meant exactly what he said. That’s why I asked him to confirm it.. You have managed to go back and cherry pick and distract from the obvious line of reasoning in that thread and POOF, right out of thin air, make an argument that nobody else even thought of.. even Tommy. You may be the next Johnny Cochran, Dave.

“If it sounds like shit, you must acquit”. That about sums it up, right?

And btw…. this VERY diplomatic post from me was on that same Helen Thomas thread. It was completely ignored by Tommy Christopher….he even posted on that same thread 3 hours later without any acknowledgment at all.

Read this plea for Tommy Christophers reasonability, then go to the thread and read the very next post from TC three hours later and then tell me more about your O.J. Defense…. it doesn’t hold water Dave.

This was from August 3rd, 5:32 PM

FearMonger said:
Dang…. I hate that I just lost that post I had written. I just don’t have it in me to write it again.

Tommy, please don’t deny the fact that We The People out here in America are indeed being attacked with a sharp-edged RACE sword for simply disagreeing with Obama’s policies. The evidence is all over the place and it has gone on too damned long. It’s not a STRAW MAN…it’s real.

When someone with your platform says that it never happens, you become part of the problem. You said above that ‘failing to call out racism is exactly how it takes root once more”. Now we have you justifying prejudice right here on this thread.

The JournoList, Maureen Dowdy saying THE WHITE HOUSE ISN’T BLACK ENOUGH, that other lady (can’t find the quote right now….headache) who said it’s better to have republicans defending against charges of racism than talking about unemployment….. all that shit plus plenty more is being hurled willy-nilly these days. Racism is being used as a political weapon and it’s not cool.

When you refuse to acknowledge it ….well, nevermind. I hope you will take the concerns more seriously than you did in this thread. A legitimate parallel was offered and you dismissed it. Turns out you were wrong although you have still refused to acknowledge it. I’m sure you will do the right thing on this. It’s all here in the posts for anybody to judge. I think I made my case.

For my part, I apologize for getting too passionate… I’m paying for it with a thumping headache. I lived for years as ‘a minority’ and I know about racism on both ends and I hate it. It’s poison. Please don’t ignore it just because it happens to be coming from the left.

FearMonger said:
that other lady (can’t find the quote right now….headache) who said it’s better to have republicans defending against charges of racism than talking about unemployment

That would be this fine lady….

Mary Frances Berry
Professor of American Social Thought and History, U. Penn. :

Tainting the tea party movement with the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. There is no evidence that tea party adherents are any more racist than other Republicans, and indeed many other Americans. But getting them to spend their time purging their ranks and having candidates distance themselves should help Democrats win in November. Having one’s opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness.

Not cool. Not cool at all. Tommy talks a lot about ‘denial’ but he’s the one doing the ‘denying’.

btw… if you do have another look at the Helen Thomas thread… check out the contradiction when Tommy attributes my first quote from Jimmy Carter to the “most extreme, often overtly racist, anti-Obama elements”…

and then when I post more from the same interview to give it more context he dismisses it by contradicting himself…

“There ARE many white people, not just in the South, who feel this way. During the 2008 election, poll after poll, Democratic and Republican, showed as many as 20% of voters willing to admit to pollsters that Obama’s race made them less likely to vote for him. Membership in hate groups spiked when he was elected. To deny that this exists is the worst kind of blindness. ”

THE WORST KIND OF BLINDNESS indeed. Denial is an awful thing.

What about you Dave? Are you blind? Or do you see the real STRAW MAN that Tommy set up? I never denied anything. It would be galactically stupid to deny that some people would not vote for Obama simply because of his race. I would never say such a stupid and easily disproved thing.

On the flip side of that coin, nobody could deny that many people voted FOR Obama simply because of his race, too. But then again, I also thought that nobody would deny that people are getting called RACIST simply for disagreeing with Obama. I was wrong about that. Shame on me for underestimating THE WORST KIND OF BLINDNESS.

But thanks Dave, for pointing out how ‘absurd on it’s face’ that statement was. I’ve made my case and Tommy will surely confirm that he meant exactly what he wrote as he still believes it to this very day. He is unswayed by my examples and I’m sure your calling it ‘absurd’ won’t matter either.

You seem like the type who will be the first to stand up and say I WAS WRONG when it becomes clear so I will not rub it in too much but….I just can’t resist cherry-picking and shamelessly taking your words out of context to predict what your future response will be when Tommy verifies the truth…

Dave Be said:
I stand corrected

You’re a good sport Dave. Thanks for the exercise. And…don’t hold it against Tommy, he can’t help it.

Fearmonger, you keep saying the same things over and over again. I don’t think that all the opposition to Obama and his policies is racist by a longshot, but of course SOME is. I also don’t think that saying that is accusing people of being racist for disagreeing with the President. It’s accusing SOME people of disagreeing with the president because they are racists. There’s a big difference.

I’m not going to go through every example and try to defend them, because it doesn’t matter what examples you have. With 6 billion people on the planet, of course SOMEONE has accused someone else of being racist because they disagree with the President. I’m sure it’s happened thousands of times. I will address one example that is a very popular one though: the response to Joe Wilson’s outburst.

A lot of people have called Joe Wilson racist since he shouted “You lie!” at the President during a joint session of Congress. There is more to base that accusation on than his outburst, though. When he was in the South Carolina State Legislature, he was one of a handful of legislators that voted to keep the Confederate flag atop the State House. He was a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Neither of those things are proof that he’s a racist either, but when a guy with those credentials is also the first Congressman to ever heckle the President during an address to a Joint Session of Congress, it’s not that hard of a leap to make. They’re not saying he must be a racist because he disagrees with the President. They’re saying that he lost control of himself and had that outburst because he’s a racist. I don’t really think the point is even close to proven, but it’s certainly suspicious.

I also don’t think it matters much whether Joe Wilson is personally a racist. Whether he is or not, he obviously appeals to some racists, just based on the Confederate Flag vote alone. The real question is whether voting for him makes the voter a racist, since that’s what’s really insinuated whenever a politician is accused of being a racist. And the answer to that question is, “Of course not.”

Anyway, how bout it Tommy? Is it your contention that nobody ever anywhere has accused someone else of being a racist because they disagreed with the President? If it is, say so, I’ll call you an idiot, and we can move on.

Dave Be said:
Anyway, how bout it Tommy? Is it your contention that nobody ever anywhere has accused someone else of being a racist because they disagreed with the President? If it is, say so, I’ll call you an idiot, and we can move on.

Don’t forget to include the word ‘simply’. That was the hinge of his disqualification of Garofalo’s BS rant.

btw Dave… you keep saying the same things over and over but ignoring the pink elephant. If Tommy was willing to admit that people are accused of being a racist SIMPLY because they disagree with the President, then why would he disqualify rants such as Garafalo’s?

In other words…If that shit doesn’t make the cut then what, pray tell, is required to meet his challenge?

I’m reminded of a scene from one of my favorite movies, “Midnight Run”. Jack Walsh (bounty hunter) is trying to get Eddie Moscone (bail bondsman) to pay him for a bounty that he already escorted to jail. Eddie first tries to change the terms of the agreement (lower price from $1200 to $800 if memory serves) and then distracts Jack with a proposition …. offering $25,000 for him to ‘bring in ‘The Duke’.

Jack laughs in his face saying “You expect me to believe you’re gonna pay me $25,000 and I gotta chase you down for a measly twelve hundred?”
_________

That’s where you’re at Dave. I was there too. You want to believe that Tommy couldn’t possibly be so obtuse that he would actually believe that stupid shit he wrote… but he does. I fully expected him to quickly admit that he ‘misspoke’ (or some other such BS admission of a brain fart) but it never came. Instead he doubled down on stupid.

So, you see Dave, Tommy’s not even good for the $1200. He won’t even pay what he already owes. What you call ‘absurd’ is SOP for Tommy. His ideology trumps all reason. That’s why he leaves you flapping in the wind like this…. he can’t deny it because he believes it.

I’ve pointed out what a ridiculous thing it was to say and given him every opportunity to admit it. Hell, my first response was flippant…. “One word…GAROFALO”. That could have been the end of it but instead of just saying “SHIT! MY BAD”…..Tommy commenced to defending the indefensible so…. I will continue to slam his ridiculous statement with ridicule until he shows some integrity.

Sue me. I expect at least a shred of credibility from a person with this type of platform. I guess the truth can be really really really really subjective in the eyes of some of ‘the new media’.

Again I draw your attention to the original attack using the words “stupidest straw man’ to discredit a perfectly valid parallel. If Tommy now says “OF COURSE PEOPLE HAVE ACCUSED OTHERS OF RACISM SIMPLY FOR DISAGREEING WITH OBAMA” ….

then he should have never called FredCPA’s counterpoint ‘the stupidest straw man”. He ridiculed the very idea that such a thing exists. “Give me just one example”…..

Yeah, right.

And Dave, you are the one who said you couldn’t find where Tommy said it and asked for the link. I’ve been more than gracious in leading you to water. You have been reluctant to drink.

I assumed (wrongly) that when you read the thread for yourself that you would see that not only did Tommy say it, he defended it. Then he confirmed that he meant exactly what he said. The fact that it was absurd does not excuse it in any way and, in fact, requires that it be addressed. Tommy himself said so when he said this….

” failing to call out racism is exactly how it takes root once more.”

So… excuse me very much for repeating myself Dave. Even now (with all this repetition) I’m still not convinced that you believe your own eyes. Why is that?

Fearmonger –

Google “straw man fallacy” because I don’t think you know what it means. As far as why he would defend the examples you gave, the racism sword doesn’t just cut one way. If I can mix metaphors for a minute, Conservatives have bludgeoned Liberals with the idea that Liberals think all Conservatives are racist. While some Liberals accuse Conservatives of being racist without enough evidence, some Conservatives dismiss all accusations of racism on the basis that they’re leveled only because the target is Conservative. Dismissing every accusation is just as wrong as making unfounded accusations.

Dave Be said:
Dismissing every accusation is just as wrong as making unfounded accusations.

That’s a strawman. Perhaps it’s YOU who needs to Google.

Nobody ever said anything about ‘dismissing every accusation’. I’ve stated numerous times that I would never deny that some people who disagree with Obama are racists. That would be stupid.

Almost as stupid as saying “Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama.”

Methinks you are simply being obtuse now Dave. I mentioned Tommy defending the examples I gave only because YOU proposed that Tommy’s challenge was actually meant for things HE said…..

Dave Be said:
Apparently in his first post, he meant “…one example of someone being called a racist BY ME simply for…” He probably should have been more careful, but on the other hand, the idea that nobody has EVER been called a racist by ANYONE just for disagreeing with Obama is absurd on its face, so he probably didn’t think he needed to.

Now it appears, once again, that you are refusing to see what Tommy wrote. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS PUT WORDS IN TOMMY’S MOUTH, DAVE. To use his phrasing….’Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to publish’ such a stupid assertion. Believe what you wish, Dave. I have neither the time nor the inclination to continue this exercise in futility.

You asked for the link to the quote and I gave it to you. YOU changed the words and YOU took it out of context to make it fit the way you wanted it to. Now you have the brought it all the way around to ..

Dave Be said:
some Conservatives dismiss all accusations of racism on the basis that they’re leveled only because the target is Conservative

WOW! How the fuck did you connect those dots????

Do me a favor Dave….Remind me the next time you ask me for a link to just skip to the chase and start banging my head against the wall.

I’m holding out hope that you are not as thick as you seem but that hope is faading…..

One last thing…

Tommy Christopher wrote:

“Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama.”

Fearmonger -

When you quote someone, it’s customary to either quote the whole sentence or use an ellipsis to indicate that you’re leaving part out, and the part left out shouldn’t change the meaning.

FearMonger said:
Dave Be said:
Dismissing every accusation is just as wrong as making unfounded accusations.
That’s a strawman. Perhaps it’s YOU who needs to Google.

I didn’t accuse you of dismissing every accusation. A straw man argument is when someone takes someone’s position and distorts it, and then refutes the distorted position. That’s exactly what you are doing here, and what you’ve been doing all along. You’ve taken bits and pieces of my posts out of context to intentionally misrepresent my point:

Dave Be said:
The real question is whether voting for him makes the voter a racist, since that’s what’s really insinuated whenever a politician is accused of being a racist. And the answer to that question is, “Of course not.”

Dave Be said:
Fearmonger – When you quote someone, it’s customary to either quote the whole sentence or use an ellipsis to indicate that you’re leaving part out, and the part left out shouldn’t change the meaning. I didn’t accuse you of dismissing every accusation. A straw man argument is when someone takes someone’s position and distorts it, and then refutes the distorted position. That’s exactly what you are doing here, and what you’ve been doing all along. You’ve taken bits and pieces of my posts out of context to intentionally misrepresent my point:

I took bits and pieces of your distracting posts to point out the distraction. I mean really…. wtf are we talking about now?

Dave Be said:
Dave Be said:
The real question is whether voting for him makes the voter a racist, since that’s what’s really insinuated whenever a politician is accused of being a racist. And the answer to that question is, “Of course not.”

Good grief! Back to Joe Wilson. Like I said, distraction. We’re not talking about Joe, we’re talking about Tommy. YOU said that if he meant it the way he wrote it then you ‘will call him an idiot and we can move on’.

Fine. He’s an idiot… and so is anybody who assumes that WHAT HE WROTE DIDN’T MEAN WHAT IT SAID, especially after he confirmed it again days later.

btw…. how could I have possibly ‘misrepresented’ your point? You have not made one. You asked me for the link. I gave it to you. You proceeded to put words in Tommy’s mouth that he never said, reluctant to accept was was right before your own eyes.

I have consistently maintained that what you refer to as ‘some stretch of stupid’ IS INDEED WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH HERE. He said it. He defended it. He confirmed it.

How you connect the dots from that to Joe Wilson or ‘dismissing every accusation’ or ’6 billion people on the planet’ is your own little party. The only one distracting and ‘misrepresenting’ is you, Dave. Nobody else assumed they knew ‘what Tommy really meant’.

I assumed that he meant what he wrote, and based on every single thing that anyone has said about it since then (except you), that assumption is undisputed.

“You know where the thread is now.”

“And Dave, you are the one who said you couldn’t find where Tommy said it and asked for the link. I’ve been more than gracious in leading you to water. You have been reluctant to drink.”

“You asked for the link to the quote and I gave it to you.”

“Do me a favor Dave….Remind me the next time you ask me for a link to just skip to the chase and start banging my head against the wall.”

“You asked me for the link. I gave it to you.”

Dude, it’s a link, not a kidney. Get over yourself.

FearMonger said:
Now you have the brought it all the way around to ..
Dave Be said:
some Conservatives dismiss all accusations of racism on the basis that they’re leveled only because the target is Conservative
WOW! How the fuck did you connect those dots????

FearMonger said:
Dave Be said:
Dismissing every accusation is just as wrong as making unfounded accusations.
That’s a strawman. Perhaps it’s YOU who needs to Google.

Those quotes, taken out of context per your MO, are in response to:

FearMonger said:
If Tommy was willing to admit that people are accused of being a racist SIMPLY because they disagree with the President, then why would he disqualify rants such as Garafalo’s?

You asked a question, and I answered it. People would “disqualify” rants such as Garafalo’s (which I think is a pretty good example of someone calling people racist for disagreeing with the President, btw) because some people try to refute EVERY allegation of racism by saying, “Hey, we have a black president. How could he get elected if people are racist? And now every time someone disagrees with him, people say they’re racist!”

Dude… I asked why he would disqualify her rant from meeting the challenge HE set forth…. which was “Give me just one example….”

Now, once again, you start yackity yacking about ‘EVERY allegation’ and ‘every time someone disagrees with him’. WTF are you even talking about? What has that got to do with Tommy’s assertion? He said ‘Give me just one example…” and then disqualified a perfectly valid example that was blatant and clearly met the criteria set forth by HIM!

Geez you are thick. You yourself said it was a ‘pretty good example’ so I ask you again… why would he disqualify it? You said “I’m sure it’s happened thousands of times” so…. If he disqualifies an example as blatant and obvious as THAT one then WHY WOULD YOU THINK…. EVEN FOR A MINUTE… that he would acknowledge that it’s happened “THOUSANDS OF TIMES”? …Most of them undoubtedly far more subtle and subdued than what that crazy moonbat bitch said…..

Your distractions won’t work on me Dave. And dealing with you does indeed feel like organ donation.

We are not talking about ‘SOME people’. … we are talking about ME. I have made it quite clear that I believe that racists exist on both sides…. and indeed that there are some who disagree with President Obowma simply because of his race. Tommy didn’t ask for an example of that.

We are not talking about ‘EVERY allegation’…. we are talking about ONE. Tommy said that NOBODY has alleged RACISM simply for disagreeing with President Obeyme. He asked for ‘just one example’.

I gave it to him. PERIOD.

The fact that he dismissed EVEN THAT racist rant should tell you all you need to know but….. you prefer to dance around with your fingers in your ears singing lalalalalalalalala.

You have taken the position that OF COURSE HE ACKNOWLEDGES IT…IT WOULD BE ABSURD IF HE DIDN’T…. while at the same time turning a blind eye to the fact that he won’t even acknowledge such an egregious example as Garofalo’s.

Instead you talk about Joe Wilson and some ignorant group of people who refute EVERY allegation of racism by saying “Hey, we have a black president. How could he get elected if people are racist? And now every time someone disagrees with him, people say they’re racist!”

Who gives a shit what people like that say Dave? It’s ridiculous to even mention them and if that’s what you consider an ‘answer’ to my question then you are even more obtuse than I had feared.

Once again I have repeated myself and once again I doubt if you will get it. Surprise me Dave.

FearMonger said:
Now, once again, you start yackity yacking about ‘EVERY allegation’ and ‘every time someone disagrees with him’. WTF are you even talking about?

“Give me just one example of someone being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Obama.”

I’m talking about allegations of racism, when people are accused of being racist simply for disagreeing with Obama. How can you not get that?

FearMonger said:
We are not talking about ‘SOME people’. … we are talking about ME.

We are not talking about you. You are talking about you. You think the world revolves around you, but like I said before, it doesn’t. The question was why would he disqualify an example, and the answer is that some people say every allegation of racism is bogus.

FearMonger said:
I gave it to him. PERIOD.

While I agree that her statements qualify as accusing people of being racist because they disagree with the president, Tommy apparently doesn’t. I also don’t think that he meant find me a link to a comedian that accuses someone, I still think he was talking about himself, but if he meant anyone that was a dumb thing to ask for. Also, you keep twisting his words. He didn’t say it never happened, he said to give him an example.

FearMonger said:
Who gives a shit what people like that say Dave? It’s ridiculous to even mention them and if that’s what you consider an ‘answer’ to my question then you are even more obtuse than I had feared.

The existence of people like that is why he’d defend allegations of racism. Which is what you asked.

If he was talking about himself and only himself then he would not have felt the need to make himself look like an even bigger ass with this lame ass shit….

Tommy Christopher wrote:

I agree that Garofalo’s rant was ridiculous, overreaching, and lazy, and said so at the time:

http://dailydose.us/2009/04/17/todays-quickies-andjaneane/

But it was not predicated simply on the fact that people disagree with Obama.
_____________

Even though she was very clear what it was really about…. or should I say ‘very honest’….

“Which, let’s be very honest about what this is about. It’s not about bashing Democrats, it’s not about taxes, they have no idea what the Boston tea party was about, they don’t know their history at all. This is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism straight up. That is nothing but a bunch of teabagging rednecks. And there is no way around that.”
_________

So Tommy played semantics with the qualifier ‘simply’ in his ridiculous attempt to disqualify her rant, even though she had whittled away the alternatives so that there could be no doubt that it SIMPLY boiled down to RACISM…’And there is no way around that.”

And btw…. it doesn’t matter whether you ‘agree’ that her statements qualify. It doesn’t matter if Tommy disagrees. The FACT is that they DO qualify. PERIOD. We have a legal standard in this Country called “THE REASONABLE PERSON”. He issued a challenge and it was met. He defended his assertion and even confirmed it. Any ‘reasonable person’ can see that he meant exactly what he wrote exactly the way he wrote it.

Again, YOU are the only one who has twisted his words. YOU are the only one who has read into his comment. YOU are the only one who has assumed that you ‘know what he meant’ (contrary to what he wrote). YOU are the only one who was able to stretch the limits of reality enough to give Tommy the O.J. Defense that ‘NOBODY WOULD SAY SOMETHING THAT ABSURD SO HE MUST HAVE MEANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT”.

Congratulations! Great Job Dave!

Part of me thinks you just like to bicker and you are pushing my buttons by playing devils advocate because you don’t give a shit if people read this and think you are batshit crazy. That’s cool. It’s kinda shitty to run around in circles like you do but it’s a free country and I was a willing participant.

The other part of me thinks you are not a “reasonable person” but….. I’ve seen some of your other posts and they are generally accurate and pointed. So I’m having a hard time understanding why you are being so obtuse about this. Perhaps you have a hard time accepting ‘inconvenient truths’ and you don’t want to believe that Tommy could be so delusional as to actually believe what he wrote. Perhaps you are just so jaded that you don’t take anything at face value?

Maybe you just have a hard on for a FearMonger and just want to provoke me… hence the talking in circles and delving into whether or not the people who vote for Joe Wilson are racist. I really don’t give a shit about Joe Wilson. I have pursued this only to show that there are indeed people with their heads so far up their asses that they really and truly do believe that nobody out here in the real world gets called racist simply for disagreeing with this Prez..

And here’s the thing Dave…. despite your ignorant opinion… we ARE talking about me. And not that I think “the world revolves around” me, you asshole. It’s because I challenged his assertion and I provided examples and I AM THE ONLY ONE holding him accountable for saying what he said. It offended me personally as I myself have been accused of being a racist SIMPLY because i protested against the HC Bill. So fuck you Dave. And fuck Tommy too.

It was a stupid thing to say and shows just how disconnected from reality these snarky assholes actually are. You yourself said there were thousands of examples of such behavior but this asshole won’t even acknowledge ONE…. and then has the nerve to lecture about ‘denial of racism’.

What a fuckin’ joke.

Fearmonger –

The rules of the blog might allow you to tell me to fuck myself, but I’m not going to play with you anymore.

That really makes me sad Dave. You tell me that I think the world revolves around me and I say “Fuck you” and you stomp off upset.

Hmm….

I sure hope that your OJ Defense of Tommy turns out to be true cuz if he indeed meant what he said (then defended, then confirmed)…. then both of you will be proven to be the ignorant idiots that you have insisted on being exposed to be.

Thanks for playing.