“a nice addition to a “seedy” part of town.”

It would also benefit the thousands of Muslims who live in that area.

Generally the guy flying the plane gets that distinction…..

Umm, to the best of our knowledge, wasn’t the first person to die on 9/11 Muhammed Atta (because he was in the pilot’s seat of the first place to hit the Twin Towers)? I guess it might have been one of the pilots, but my recollection of the 9/11 Commission report is that there is conflicting evidence as to whether the pilots were actually killed.

At any rate, the first person to die in most terrorist attacks is the terrorist himself. The Imam is (once again) sending a mixed message here.

Well, at least we can agree on one thing.

Now we’re getting somewhere!

It is an obligation of the muslim to lie to the infidel. It’s called taqiyya.

That. Is. All.

I’ll take Imam Rauf at his word. I have no difficulty believing that he wishes to stand between me and a terrorist attack and to be the first to die.

So?

Pelley didn’t ask him to define “peace” when he said he was a man of peace. Peace to a Muslim is submission to Allah and submission to Shari’ah. Pelley didn’t ask him about his relationship to the Muslim Brotherhood.

“If There Is Another 9/11 “I Want To Be The First To Die” Imam Rauf

Please do us all a favor and don’t wait that long.

Just one more con man in Manhattan . … How’s Faiz Khan , Ralphie ?

Azarkhan said:
“If There Is Another 9/11 “I Want To Be The First To Die” Imam Rauf

Please do us all a favor and don’t wait that long.

Absolutely! That’s the point!

When it comes to Muslims, one wishes that they would be the first to say “I don’t want to die, I want to live! I want YOU to live! Damn those evil islamic radical bastards! They suck! I’ll fight those sons-of-bitches right beside you! What would you have me to do?”

DocMaine said:
Pelley didn’t ask him to define “peace” when he said he was a man of peace. Peace to a Muslim is submission to Allah and submission to Shari’ah. Pelley didn’t ask him about his relationship to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yes yes , Just as Peace to Christians is submission to God and God’s will before country, Was there a point?

Cecelia said:
Absolutely! That’s the point!

When it comes to Muslims, one wishes that they would be the first to say “I don’t want to die, I want to live! I want YOU to live! Damn those evil islamic radical bastards! They suck! I’ll fight those sons-of-bitches right beside you! What would you have me to do?”

Spot on. As Bin Laden himself said in 1989: “We love death. The U.S. loves life. That is the big difference between us.”

Cecelia said:
Absolutely! That’s the point!

When it comes to Muslims, one wishes that they would be the first to say “I don’t want to die, I want to live! I want YOU to live! Damn those evil islamic radical bastards! They suck! I’ll fight those sons-of-bitches right beside you! What would you have me to do?”

It doesn’t seem to matter. People seem willing to ignore the ones that did that.

CosmosDan said:
Yes yes , Just as Peace to Christians is submission to God and God’s will before country, Was there a point?

First of all, I’ve never seen any Christian theologian of any note (St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc.) define peace as submission to to God. Islam, on the other hand, literally means submission.

Second, for Christians, “God’s will” is that we love our neighbors. Nowhere did Christ ever say that Christians should go forth and kill nonbelievers.

CosmosDan said:
It doesn’t seem to matter. People seem willing to ignore the ones that did that.

Well, perhaps because they weren’t Imans building an Islamic center near Ground Zero to the consternation of aggrieved family members…

Ya…think Iman Rauf could go out on a limb… and give interview saying PRECISELY the same?

AnonymousFinch said:
First of all, I’ve never seen any Christian theologian of any note (St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc.) define peace as submission to to God. Islam, on the other hand, literally means submission.

First of all…I’d like Cosmo Dan to give some verifiable quotes from Muslims or Muslim associations saying precisely what I said that they should be saying.

I’ll be the first to commend such entities.

I don’t know how anyone can watch that and not see Geller as either a nut, a hate monger, or someone trying to capitalize on anti Muslim sentiment. Maybe a little of all three. What a giant load of crap she dished out and so many were willing to step up a give way to paranoia and hate.

I hope all the posters who were crowing about how the “mosque” will never be built watch this to see that’s it’s been there for a year already.

Cecelia said:
First of all…I’d like Cosmo Dan to give some verifiable quotes from Muslims or Muslim associations saying precisely what I said that they should be saying.

I’ll be the first to commend such entities.

I was thinking of the American Muslims who died at GZ including a 1st responder and American Muslims who served in Iraq. Those were the people so that were so quickly ignored when Geller started whipping people into a paranoid frenzy.

CosmosDan said:
I don’t know how anyone can watch that and not see Geller as either a nut, a hate monger

I see Ms. Geller as a patriot, and I see people like you as hatemongers and anti-American.

CosmosDan said:
I was thinking of the American Muslims who died at GZ including a 1st responder and American Muslims who served in Iraq. Those were the people so that were so quickly ignored when Geller started whipping people into a paranoid frenzy.

Geller started “whipping” people into a frenzy seven years after 9.11.

So where are your quotes?

Azarkhan said:
“If There Is Another 9/11 “I Want To Be The First To Die” Imam Rauf

Please do us all a favor and don’t wait that long.

You first hillbilly.

AnonymousFinch said:
First of all, I’ve never seen any Christian theologian of any note (St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc.) define peace as submission to to God. Islam, on the other hand, literally means submission.

Second, for Christians, “God’s will” is that we love our neighbors. Nowhere did Christ ever say that Christians should go forth and kill nonbelievers.

You’re splitting hairs and it won’t work. Clearly Christians are asked to submit to God’s will above all else. God has to come first right?

There’s plenty of gory violence in the Bible at God’s command. Yes, right now there are Islamic radicals that hate America and American soldiers are now facing charges for murdering Muslims. Let’s keep fostering hate and fear

Cecelia said:
Well, perhaps because they weren’t Imans building an Islamic center near Ground Zero to the consternation of aggrieved family members…

Ya…think Iman Rauf could go out on a limb… and give interview saying PRECISELY the same?

I can’t imagine it would matter what he said Almost everything he’s said and done has been turned around.

Azarkhan said:
I see Ms. Geller as a patriot, and I see people like you as hatemongers and anti-American.

Who am I fostering hate for? It what way am I anti-American?

CosmosDan said:
You’re splitting hairs and it won’t work. Clearly Christians are asked to submit to God’s will above all else. God has to come first right?

There’s plenty of gory violence in the Bible at God’s command. Yes, right now there are Islamic radicals that hate America and American soldiers are now facing charges for murdering Muslims. Let’s keep fostering hate and fear

Splitting hairs?

Here is the Koran, Sura 9:29:

Fight those who believe not
In Allah no the Last day
Nor hold that forbidden
Which hath been forbidden
By Allah and His Messenger,
Nor acknowledge the Religion
Of Truth, from among
The People of the Book
Until they pay the Jizya
with willing submission
And feel themselves subdued.

Here, by contrast, is Mark:

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Do you really see a moral equivalence between those two?

By way, for the record, I’m not a Christian–by which I mean I don’t believe in the divinity of Christ. But as a moral philosopher, I can certainly see the difference between Christianity and a religion predicated on the violent submission of nonbelievers.

Cecelia said:
Geller started “whipping” people into a frenzy seven years after 9.11.

So where are your quotes?

Yes Geller started the 9-11 frenzy about the “ground zero mosque” and right wing blogs and major media outlets , Fox in particular fueled the fire.
Muslim Americans died serving this country. They gave their lives for America so they won’t be available to read your required script. If that’s not enough for you then you might want to reconsider your standards.

AnonymousFinch said:
Splitting hairs?

Here is the Koran, Sura 9:29:

Fight those who believe not
In Allah no the Last day
Nor hold that forbidden
Which hath been forbidden
By Allah and His Messenger,
Nor acknowledge the Religion
Of Truth, from among
The People of the Book
Until they pay the Jizya
with willing submission
And feel themselves subdued.

Here, by contrast, is Mark:

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Do you really see a moral equivalence between those two?

By way, for the record, I’m not a Christian–by which I mean I don’t believe in the divinity of Christ. But as a moral philosopher, I can certainly see the difference between Christianity and a religion predicated on the violent submission of nonbelievers.

I think comparing verses is a waste of time. If you’re familiar with the Bible at all you know there are plenty of verses in which God condones the slaughter of unbelievers. A couple of people were killed in the NT for lying about tything. You should also know that scriptures are subject to interpretation and religions fracture as different groups disagree on interpretation, and authority. Neither all Christians or Muslims believe and teach the same thing.

CosmosDan said:
Yes Geller started the 9-11 frenzy about the “ground zero mosque” and right wing blogs and major media outlets , Fox in particular fueled the fire.
Muslim Americans died serving this country. They gave their lives for America so they won’t be available to read your required script. If that’s not enough for you then you might want to reconsider your standards.

Oh, great… then if you don’t have anyone other than Muslims who died because they were at Ground Zero when the planes hit, I’ll go with living Muslims who go with my required script.

I’ll salute them. Can you get anyone who functions in the general vicinity of Iman Raulf?

CosmosDan said:
I think comparing verses is a waste of time. If you’re familiar with the Bible at all you know there are plenty of verses in which God condones the slaughter of unbelievers. A couple of people were killed in the NT for lying about tything. You should also know that scriptures are subject to interpretation and religions fracture as different groups disagree on interpretation, and authority. Neither all Christians or Muslims believe and teach the same thing.

eh….no… GOD killed the two who lied about tithing as related in the New Testament.

Do you have anything about Jesus saying to kill unbelievers?

CosmosDan said:
I think comparing verses is a waste of time. If you’re familiar with the Bible at all you know there are plenty of verses in which God condones the slaughter of unbelievers. A couple of people were killed in the NT for lying about tything. You should also know that scriptures are subject to interpretation and religions fracture as different groups disagree on interpretation, and authority. Neither all Christians or Muslims believe and teach the same thing.

I’ll go verse for verse with you. You quote Old Testament to represent Judaism and the New Testament to represent Christianity, and I quote the Koran. Then we’ll see which are the religions of peace.

Cecelia said:
Oh, great… then if you don’t have anyone other than Muslims who died because they were at Ground Zero when the planes hit, I’ll go with living Muslims who go with my required script.

I’ll salute them. Can you get anyone who functions in the general vicinity of Iman Raulf?

No Cecelia, though some died because they were at GZ at least one died going into GZ as a first responder trying to rescue his fellow Americans. Thousands of Muslims serve in the armed forces and some have died serving in Iraq. These American Muslim soldiers have families here who support them. When we say we support our troops do we include Muslims in the armed forces or not?
My point to you is that if dieing in service to this country isn’t enough for you, no script you provide has any meaning at all.
Imam Rauf has spoken out consistently against terrorism and worked for the last Admin and this one as an emissary to Muslim nations. He’s been an American citizen for over 30 years and the developer of the project was born in America to an Egyptian father and a Catholic mother. His wife is a Christian. The hyped up fury over the community center is grounded in certain people exploiting people’s emotions for they own agenda.

AnonymousFinch said:
I’ll go verse for verse with you. You quote Old Testament to represent Judaism and the New Testament to represent Christianity, and I quote the Koran. Then we’ll see which are the religions of peace.

No you won’t because it’s a waste of time I won’t participate in. Listen up. It isn’t in the words on the page, it’s in the way humans interpret those words. Go back a short 50 years in this country and see how white Christians were treating black Christians. Now we are dealing with radical Islam fueled in part by political forces. We need to demonstrate that the lofty principles we talk about so often are put into practice to try and prevent things from escalating.

CosmosDan said:
No you won’t because it’s a waste of time I won’t participate in.

LOL. Then just STFU.

CosmosDan said:
No you won’t because it’s a waste of time I won’t participate in. Listen up. It isn’t in the words on the page, it’s in the way humans interpret those words. Go back a short 50 years in this country and see how white Christians were treating black Christians. Now we are dealing with radical Islam fueled in part by political forces. We need to demonstrate that the lofty principles we talk about so often are put into practice to try and prevent things from escalating.

It’s not the words on the page? Oh, I’m sorry, I thought it was the words on the page according to your last post.

You are correct that evil humans can pervert a good thing. The point is that Islam, at its foundation, is not a good thing. If you read the Koran, you’ll see that the Mohammed Attas of the world have it right. The truly peaceful Muslms are the one who are “perverting” it.

Your brand of moral relativism is the greatest danger in the whole thing. If “radical” Islam is going to be defeated, people need to be honest about it.

Cecelia said:
eh….no… GOD killed the two who lied about tithing as related in the New Testament.

Do you have anything about Jesus saying to kill unbelievers?

As I told the other poster. I think it’s pointless to compare verses. Practitioners of religions don’t agree on the interpretations. Imam Rauf on his recent trip abroad had this to say,

He told religious leaders in Bahrain that the most important conflicts in the world were between the children of Abraham, whether the Israeli/Palestinian conflict or the US/Iran conflict and the challenge for them was how they could play a role in bringing peace.

“The demand is on us (Muslims) to feel a special brotherhood with the Christian and Jewish faiths and certainly our own.

Meanwhile , back in the US protesters were in lower Manhattan expressing that brotherhood.

“We shouldn’t see differences, but see the differences that unite us and are part of one theme.
“It’s time we also saw that if we followed the laws of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed they were not opposed to each other.”

Azarkhan said:
LOL. Then just STFU.

Won’t do that either. But you’re still invited to tell me specifically how I’m a hatemonger and anti American.

AnonymousFinch said:
If you read the Koran, you’ll see that the Mohammed Attas of the world have it right.

The most amusing thing to me is how Christian Americans like Eric Holder, et al., say that Muslims like Osama bin Laden are wrong in their interpretation of the Koran and Muhammad. Who are they to presume to know that? When Muslims say it’s their duty to kill the infidel, I take them at their word. It’s their culture, their religion, and I think they certainly know more about it then the Eric Holders of the world.

That will work for me !!

AnonymousFinch said:
on the other hand, literally means submission.

submission to god

such as you will have no other gods before me

Abdul Kaled said:
Azarkhan said:
“If There Is Another 9/11 “I Want To Be The First To Die” Imam Rauf

Please do us all a favor and don’t wait that long.

You first hillbilly.

thats good

AnonymousFinch said:
.

Cecelia said:

Azarkhan said:

Which one is the bigger DICK?

“We Report. You Decide.”

AnonymousFinch said:
It’s not the words on the page? Oh, I’m sorry, I thought it was the words on the page according to your last post.

You are correct that evil humans can pervert a good thing. The point is that Islam, at its foundation, is not a good thing. If you read the Koran, you’ll see that the Mohammed Attas of the world have it right. The truly peaceful Muslms are the one who are “perverting” it.

Your brand of moral relativism is the greatest danger in the whole thing. If “radical” Islam is going to be defeated, people need to be honest about it.

I’m not sure why I should accept your version of Islam over that of practicing Muslims who claim otherwise. Because you as a non religious person read the verses more literally? It’s religion friend. How literal each verse is is up to the person or group teaching.

I’d love for people to be honest enough to not hold any book as “the word of god” and take complete responsibility for their choices and actions but I don’t see that happening any time soon. We can however hold people responsible for their actions. I agree we have to accept that radical Islam is a major issue and I really don’t care which verse they use to justify their hate. I leave it to Muslims who practice and teach peace to have that discussion. The question for us is how do we defend ourselves without betraying our own principles. Too often hatred begets hatred that leads to escalated violence. I hope we’re smarter and more principled that that.

CosmosDan said:
I’m not sure why I should accept your version of Islam over that of practicing Muslims who claim otherwise. Because you as a non religious person read the verses more literally? It’s religion friend. How literal each verse is is up to the person or group teaching.

I’d love for people to be honest enough to not hold any book as “the word of god” and take complete responsibility for their choices and actions but I don’t see that happening any time soon. We can however hold people responsible for their actions. I agree we have to accept that radical Islam is a major issue and I really don’t care which verse they use to justify their hate. I leave it to Muslims who practice and teach peace to have that discussion. The question for us is how do we defend ourselves without betraying our own principles. Too often hatred begets hatred that leads to escalated violence. I hope we’re smarter and more principled that that.

Dan
These are not “real” people
they are here on a mission like the “bisexual” girl who wanted us to look at the flaming videos of gays who did it on the doorstep of the apartment where she owns her own house

Azarkhan said:
The most amusing thing to me is how Christian Americans like Eric Holder, et al., say that Muslims like Osama bin Laden are wrong in their interpretation of the Koran and Muhammad. Who are they to presume to know that? When Muslims say it’s their duty to kill the infidel, I take them at their word. It’s their culture, their religion, and I think they certainly know more about it then the Eric Holders of the world.

It’s not even a matter of it being interpreted correctly or incorrectly. Neither term is relevant. What’s relevant are the choices they make depending on their interpretation. Christianity has changed over the years as people have interpreted it differently. We should be encouraging peaceful Muslims to work with us to help radical Muslims grow out of it. It will take generations.

right-is-wrong said:
Dan
These are not “real” people
they are here on a mission like the “bisexual” girl who wanted us to look at the flaming videos of gays who did it on the doorstep of the apartment where she owns her own house

Paula? Never looked at that video. I think there are some real people here although it isn’t always easy to tell who’s sincere and who is pretending.

Dan
Reread all of them.

I’ll go verse for verse.
the mosque at “ground Zero”

AnonymousFinch said:
It’s not the words on the page?

Cecelia said:
GOD killed the two who lied about tithing as related in the New Testament.

Do you have anything about Jesus saying to kill unbelievers?

AnonymousFinch said:
The point is that Islam, at its foundation, is not a good thing.

Azarkhan said:
When Muslims say it’s their duty to kill the infidel, I take them at their word. It’s their culture, their religion, and I think they certainly know more about it then the Eric Holders of the world.

CosmosDan said:
When Muslims say it’s their duty to kill the infidel, I take them at their word.

Its 3 people (or 1 -nsf-norbit-eddie) trying to push their anti muslim talking points for their “anti”agenda”
No matter how many scriptures you quote – you will always end up with

AnonymousFinch said:
The point is that Islam, at its foundation, is not a good thing.

Azarkhan said:
When Muslims say it’s their duty to kill the infidel, I take them at their word. It’s their culture, their religion, and I think they certainly know more about it then the Eric Holders of the world.

“NYC Mosque Imam: If There Is Another 9/11 “I Want To Be The First To Die”

Can you spell “I D I O T”

“I think comparing verses is a waste of time.”

That is you admitting that AF just PWN3D you.

I translated that as most lberals debate, “Sure you have facts and figures but let’s not go into that.”

LLLLLLLlllosssssssssseeeerrrrrrr.

If they actually start construction on this Mosque, he may not have to wait long to die! There are religious nuts on both sides of the isle.