Obama doesn’t just get letters from folks, he sends letters to folks.

I knew he had to be doing something with his nongolf time.

As opposed to Donald Rumsfeld who might use a stamper. Or is that less bad because it was to the families of dead soldiers. Come on its one letter Gloves, and your better than that. 

And, why is this news? our President understands that EVERYONE has a right to marry WHOMEVER s/he wants.  Equal rights, you know?

::GASP::

Precisely. 

Gotta find something to do in between the vacations and blaming republicans and jews for every evil in the world, I suppose.

I hope this is an indicator that his position regarding marriage equality has evolved.

I have a capitalist bookstore in North Korea I want to sell you if you really believe he was always against gay marriage.

Yes I always hear him blaming Jews for the evils in the world. Oh wait, you just made that up. You people are pathetic.

Panetta telling them to get “to the damn table.”  Obama declaring Israel must go back to pre-1967 borders.  Obama forcing Mubarak, a friend of Israel(and America), out, while doing nothing to say Iran while protests were erupting there.  Obama wanting to split Jerusalem.  Obama continually bitching at Israel for every little thing they do, never mind the Palestinians celebrating the murders of innocent Israelis.

Yeah, you’re right, that’s all made up.

President Obama is against same-sex marriage. He supports equal rights but during the campaign he said he was against ‘marriage’ and to this day he has not (publicly) changed his stance.

good for him.

And where in any of that is he ‘blaming Jews”? And he ‘forced’ Mubarak out? Seems like the Egyptian people did that and that promoting democracy is a good thing. And using the ’67 borders as a starting point for negotiations-oh yeah the last 4 Administrations have been following the exact same policy. Cut the crap. 

Jews and Israelis being interchangeable in this situation.  Not all Jews are like Chomsky, Marx, and the like, hating their ancestry.

He started calling for Mubarak to step down immediately.  I suppose voting in the Muslim Brotherhood is a good thing too?  I guess the nazis were good as well since they were democratically elected?  Good call there.

And no, no Obama did change: “It is clear, however, that a return to the situation of 4 June 1967 will not bring peace. There must be secure and there must be recognized borders.”
— President Lyndon Johnson, September 1968
“In the pre-1967 borders, Israel was barely ten miles wide at  its  narrowest  point. The bulk of Israel’s population lived within artillery range of hostile armies. I am not about to ask Israel to live that way again.”
— President Ronald Reagan, September 1, 1982
“Israel will never negotiate from or return to the 1967 borders.”
— Secretary of State George Shultz, September 1988
“I think there can be no genuine resolution to the conflict without a sovereign, viable, Palestinian state that accommodates Israeli’s security requirements and the demographic realities. That suggests Palestinian sovereignty over Gaza, the vast majority of the West Bank, the incorporation into Israel of settlement blocks … To make the agreement durable, I think there will have to be some territorial swaps and other arrangements.”
— President Bill Clinton, January 7, 2001“Ultimately, Israelis and Palestinians must address the core issues that divide them if there is to be a real peace, resolving all claims and ending the conflict between them. This means that the Israeli occupation that began in 1967 will be ended through a settlement negotiated between the parties, based on UN resolutions 242 and 338, with Israeli withdrawal to secure and recognize borders.”— President George W. Bush, June 24, 2002And to quote liberal Alan Dershowitz:”President Barack Obama should be commended for his emphasis on Israel’s security and his concern about Hamas joining the Palestinian Authority without renouncing its violent charter. But he made one serious mistake that tilts the balance against Israel in any future negotiations. Without insisting that the Palestinians give up their absurd claim to have millions of supposed refugees “return” to Israel as a matter of right, he insisted that Israel must surrender all of the areas captured in its defensive war of 1967, subject only to land swaps.This formulation undercuts Security Council Resolution 242 (which I played a very small role in helping to draft). Resolution 242, passed unanimously by the Security Council in the wake of Israel’s 1967 victory, contemplated some territorial adjustments necessary to assure Israel’s security against future attacks. It also contemplated that Israel would hold onto the Western Wall, the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem and the access roads to Hebrew University, without the need for any land swaps. Land swaps would only be required to make up for any areas beyond those contemplated by Resolution 242. The Obama formulation would seem to require land swaps even for the Western Wall. “So, is this the point where I say “Cut the crap”?  I would in sincerity, but I don’t believe honesty to be the hallmark of liberalism at all and it’s proven on a nearly daily basis.

That’s fine. I don’t care if our President is for or against same-sex marriage, I just care that he understands it’s not the Government’s place to decide whether or not two fully grown consenting adults can choose to live their life together and enjoy all the benefits such a civil union brings.

Honestly, Israel brought it upon themselves.

What does it matter what the president personally believes if he stops the DOJ from defending DOMA?

Ending DADT was EASY compared to trying to repeal DOMA with the congress we currently have.

My god, Obama is joining the rest of the civilized world in criticizing Israel’s authoritarian policies? Say it ain’t so .

If Owebumbles feels this way why doesn’t he have the courage to make it a platform issue in this upcoming election? Because he’s just the panderer in chief.

I would’ve sent them the square pegs and round holes test so they could see how they want American life in disarray for the sake of the peculiar world view of 3% of the population.

I guess I would’ve sent a rubber hammer too since they could use it to try and make children.

Yeah, owning a small piece of land that muslims consider theirs has brought the wrath of the world upon them, as demonstrated by this picture 
http://himself.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/sagacious-himself-end-the-unjust-jewish-occupation-of-muslim-land-via-protest-warrior.gif

I suppose, next they can start suicide bombing the entire area, attack without warning, slaughter the innocent, quit making technological advances that help the world, live in a world of abject poverty with no hope of every getting, basically give up on making their lives better for anyone and devolve into a dictatorship is what I’m getting at, and then they will get the same “poor you!” treatment every muslim nation who has brought the very hell that they have to live through upon themselves?

So, Israel is now a dictatorship?  When did that happen?  Right around the last election?

Mubarak was a brutal dictator.

@PligSkrarlstil:disqus  Which evil do you take, the one who helps you(Mubarak)?  Or the one who wants you dead(Muslim Brotherhood)?

How nice, now repeal DOMA dude. Your very own parents would have been barred from wedding back in the day…
Cheers, Joe Mustich, CT USA.
Marriage Officiant and Justice of the Peace.

??

It’s time for the world to protect non-Jews in Israel-Palestine, and for Israel-Jews to open up the Gaza Ghetto, have they  forgotten Warsaw? 
This budding apatheid state, without borders, is shameful.
Cheers, Joe Mustich, CT USA

I hit the like bottom twice by mistake before I put on my glasses…

Um, the pre-1967 borders are what every president, including Bush, have pursued. 

Obama didn’t force Mubarak out; the Egyptian people did. 

Obama wants to split Jerusalem because that is what every serious proposal has required, and is what everyone but Israel recognizes is necessary under international law. 

And Bibi Netanyahu himself has publicly declared the president to be a crucial  and reliable ally to Israel.

Really, from one Jew whose grandfather remembers to this day the week his family stopped receiving desperate letters from their Polish aunts and uncles and cousins, never to be heard from again, do please stop degrading the memory of my relatives and the very real bigotry they faced by inventing this imaginary “Jew-hatred” of the President’s.  Israel is a country, and opposing some of Israel’s policies by no means makes one a Jew-hater.  I oppose many it’s policies for the very reason that I am a Jew, and I know that my people are better than what Israel’s policies imply.

Yeah, forget that, they dug their own grave.  A while ago, Bill Gates bought them a greenhouse, so what’d the savages do?  They stripped it down and used the funds for weapons.  There’s an article in Der Spiegel from a while back showing a leader there saying they’ve used aid to buy more weapons, lowering the cost of bullets.

If they want to prove they deserve anything, their leaders can quit getting caught trying to smuggle money out.  They can stop the rocket attacks, and they can stop cheering at the murders of innocent people.  In the mean time, they deserve nothing short of the hell they’ve made for themselves.

If the President is actually for equality, he will actually fight for equality.  As far as I know, his position is still in favor of civil unions but against marriage.

He’s a leader.  If he champions equality, more people will be inclined to do so.

Would have been nice if he wrote it himself.
Wonder if the signature is a rubber stamp?

“I would’ve sent them the square pegs and round holes test”

I think you misunderstood the idiom. 

Um, see my above post regarding the borders.  That’s not true, Obama vastly departed from it.

Obama vocally called for him to step down, unlike any enemy of America or Israel, Iran most notably.

Netanyahu also has to play politics.

I’ve studied this subject a lot, so I feel confident in my position, but answer one questions, and I will probably change my mind, just one question: How do you negotiate peace with someone who does not accept the validity of your existence?

You do realize a country can have authoritarian measures in place while maintaining elections?

“The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (Arabic: منظمة التحرير الفلسطينية‎;  Munaẓẓamat at-Taḥrīr al-Filasṭīniyyah (help·info)) is a political and paramilitary organization which was created in 1964. It is recognized as the ‘sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people’ by the United Nations and over 100 states with which it holds diplomatic relations, and has enjoyed observer status at the United Nations since 1974.[4][5] The PLO was considered by the United States and Israel to be a terrorist organization until the Madrid Conference in 1991.

In 1993, PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist in peace, accepted UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, and rejected ‘violence and terrorism’; in response, Israel officially recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people.[6]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization

?????

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/palestinian-leader-mahmoud-abbas-stunningly-admits-recognize-israel-a-jewish-state-defends-capture-gilad-shalit-article-1.970866 
“From the leader of the more moderate of the Palestinian factions comes a stunningly plain-spoken assertion: He will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Period, end of story. And he endorses the terrorist kidnapping of Israelis who serve their country.
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas — who has gone directly to the United Nations to seek unilateral recognition of Palestine — gave an interview late last month to Egypt’s Dream2 television network.
When the talk turned to peace negotiations with Israel, Abbas could not have been more candid or explicit: “I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I will never recognize the Jewishness of the state, or a ‘Jewish state.’”
Meaning, if the planet’s only Jewish state, Israel, is ever to be recognized, it will only be as a nation that must open its borders to generations of Palestinians — who’ll once and forever redefine it.
Keep in mind that Arab citizens of Israel already have more freedom, opportunity and democratic participation than Arabs in any other part of the Middle East. No less an authority than Richard Goldstone, the South African judge who wrote the infamous UN report accusing Israel of war crimes in its 2008 operation in Gaza, on Tuesday penned an Op-Ed defending Israel against charges it is an “apartheid state.”
Applying such terms to Israel, Goldstone said, is “unfair and inaccurate slander” that’s used to “retard rather than advance peace negotiations.”
Peace? Abbas also lamented, “We are not able to wage military resistance.”
Said he: “Hamas kidnapped, or rather captured, a soldier and managed to keep him for five years. And that is a good thing. We don t deny it. 
This is not a leader of the terrorist group Hamas speaking. It s the man who has been counted on as the closest thing the Palestinians can offer to a rational and credible leader.
Yet some continue to insist it is Israel s obstinacy, not Palestinian rejectionism, that is blocking the path to peace. Will they ever learn?”

its not a rubber stamp, but it is just a form letter.  Anyone can get the same congratulatory letter from him for their wedding.  Infact, they arent the first gay couple to get one either…..a quick google search showed me this from january 2011

http://www.soyoureengayged.com/2011/farewell-sye-obama-letter-and-wedding-budget/

Makes it harder to believe, especially when there are peaceful transitions of power.

yeh
form letter = rubber stamp

“Savages.” Really? You’re just making the comparisons to colonization that much easier by using that type of language.

“”Savages.” Really? You’re just making the comparisons to colonization that much easier by using that type of language.”

And yet you don’t address the substance of the argument I presented.

And how was the savages comparison not apt?  Did the Indians not kill each other with no regard to modern civilization, other than using it to try find better ways to kill each other?

Ok, so rejecting the existence of Israel as a Jewish state – meaning that the thousands of Palestinians who have been displaced have no right to return – is not the same as rejecting the existence of Israel entirely.

In fact, you know which party has explicitly rejected even the notion of a two-state solution?  That would be the party of Benyamin Netanyahu, the Likud party, whose charter rejects the notion of Palestinian self-rule:

http://palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=14772
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud

Please don’t misunderstand me – I am not by any stretch of the imagination arguing that the Palestinians are faultless in this debacle. My only point is that neither is Israel, and the mere acknowledgment of that fact in no way makes someone an anti-Semite.

Tuesday, November 6, 2012

everything he does is sooooooo gooood
lol

I haven’t looked this up, so I’m just asking out of mere curiosity: has the Likud recognized Palestine’s right to exist?

Those who lived there decided to move when the Jews went there after WWII are, well, in layman’s terms “S.O.L.”  Clearly, they didn’t want it enough.  Then they fought a war and lost.  And now despite concessions from Israel, there still hasn’t been peace.  The history is long, but not complicated at all.

Netanyahu has signaled he would accept a Palestinian state, with conditions http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7838189&page=1#.TvC6tNRSQsI  I think stripping Palestine of its military entirely isn’t asking too much at all.  Israel has been completely responsible with theirs, not responding to every attack that they suffer.

I know Israel isn’t completely blameless, but at the end of the day, I’ll admit: I’m biased.  I don’t trust the palestinians.  They have done nothing to prove they’re willing to work for peace.  They voted in terrorists, Hamas.  They continually prove, time and time again, they’re more interested in making and investing in weapons rather than making their society better.

MonsieurA, the answer is no.

I’m not saying that some of these individuals’ acts aren’t reprehensible. I’m saying your characterization of them as “savages” is overtly simplistic and reminiscent of colonial propaganda against the Africans.

I didn’t address the rest of your post, because it wasn’t directed at me. If you really want my thoughts, have at it:

“Their leaders can quit getting caught trying to smuggle money out.”
I hadn’t heard of that. Let’s assume that’s true: a lot of countries have corrupt leaders. Does that really tell you much about its population?

“They
can stop the rocket attacks”
Well, that type of behavior goes both ways. I don’t think anyone approves of it.

“They can stop cheering at the murders
of innocent people.”
The plural of anecdote isn’t data. I’m sure I could use Google to find some extremist Zionists cheering the deaths of Arabs. Heck, there’s a whole article on Wikipedia about racism in Israel.

Really? That’s extremely naive of you. Let’s just look at the United States, a country meant to be the “beacon of democracy.” Surely I don’t have to tell you about the human rights violation they’ve committed? Internment camps, institutionalized racism, censorship of the press, etc, etc…

It’s not an overtly simplification of it.  When they get murderers back, they have celebrations.  In a normal society, they lock them up, in ours we execute them.

Ahh.  Anyways…

That’s true, corrupt leaders are everywhere.  But only theirs have something to prove to the world.  Only they have to prove something to the world as money is continually dumped in and yet they fail.

They shoot the rockets and Israel responds.  They almost never attack without being attacked first.  And only then, does one group intentionally target civilians, while the other painstakingly tries to avoid them.  Also, only one of them surrounds themselves with human shields to increase sympathy.  I personally find that the vilest of the vile: kill some innocent people, then surround yourself with children so if you’re killed, there will be pictures of dead children or get away with it.  Which is all why they launch attacks from schools and heavily populated areas so much.  At least the savages went in taking their own lives into their hands, hiding behind no one.

Honestly?  I don’t particularly care about the racism muslims over there have to endure.  Is it unfortunate that innocent people have to suffer for the actions of others?  Yes, very much so.  But we have no idea what it’s like being over there.  We don’t live in a town like Sderot where they are under constant fear of being attacked for merely existing.  We don’t live in a settlement where we have to worry about some terrorists running in and brutally murdering our family.  We have a luxury here that they don’t have there.  And while I do generally find racism a deplorable act, I’m not going to push my views onto them in a relativistic way.  Here in America blacks and mexicans have suffered and it’s right to call it out when it happens here, but it’s completely different over there.

Can the palestinians do something to fix this?  Yes, they can rise up and fight back against those who fire rockets from their neighborhoods and schools at innocent people, but let’s be real: that won’t happen.  They voted in Hamas for a reason: “From the river to the sea, palestine will be free.”  Peace was never and will never be these savages’ goal.

”
Really? That’s extremely naive of you.”
Nah, I just don’t impress the past with modern day realities.  Our society now is completely different than back then.  I don’t know your ethnic build(So, for arguments sake, I’ll guess you’re white and use that in this example), but you can’t in all honesty say “If I was back there during the creation of the nation, I would’ve fought tooth and nail to keep slavery abolished!”  It’s nice to think so, but the reality: we probably wouldn’t.”Let’s just look at the United States, a country meant to be the “beacon of democracy.”"Let’s…”Surely I don’t have to tell you about the human rights violation they’ve committed? Internment camps,”Right after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, a Japanese plane crashed and he ran into some people of Japanese decent.  They helped him even knowing exactly what he had just done.  Being dragged into two wars, we had no idea what the state of mind was of the politicians.  We have no idea if there was more widespread acts of those of Japanese decent helping Japan or what.  While I can sit back, here in the year 2011 and comfortably say “Had the same thing happened today, we wouldn’t inter the people” we don’t known and can’t know what was going through all their minds then.”institutionalized racism,”Disgusting practice, but different day and age entirely.”censorship of the press,”FDR, Obama and Fox News, yeah, yeah…
At the end of the day, it’s pretty nice being able to sit here and criticize the actions of those past, but at the end of the day: it was a different time and a different mindset.

It’s easy to generalize when you’re just going to use “they” to characterize a large group of individuals.

I still fail to see the point you’re trying to make about the corrupt leaders. What exactly do they have to “prove to the world”? Look at the decolonization during the 1950s and 1960s. You can be sure as hell there were some corrupt people there. Does that mean those countries shouldn’t have been granted their independence?

As for the rockets, once against you’re generalizing. It’s extremely easy to take an enormous amount of cases and simplify it as, “Terrorists attacked Israel. Israel responded.”

From your last two paragraphs, I’m not even sure if there’s even a point in continuing this discussion. Clearly you’ve already come to a conclusion that Palestinians are always the source of conflict. I mean, your point about the settlements is laughable. I don’t condone violence, but are you honestly trying to portray settlers as “innocent victims”? 

The sky is falling!!!

I don’t think he is or was.  It’s called politics – had he said he favored marriage equality he probably would not have wion the election.  And no, he has changed his (public) stance.  He recently said that his views “are evolving.”  I will bet any amount of money, or any (legal) public action dare, that within 12 months of his next term he “evolves” to the point he supports marriage equality.  

Ah, so now you’re willing to take context into consideration? I’d say you have an extremely selective mind.

Aww, cute. How about you make a similar map with black African countries and South Africa? Those silly blacks were complaining about whites having their own country… Ugh, how foolish of them.

“It’s easy to generalize when you’re just going to use “they” to characterize a large group of individuals. ”
OK.  I generalize.  Should I not generalize the people who vote for the people who put up “Tomorrow’s Pioneers”?

“I still fail to see the point you’re trying to make about the corrupt leaders. What exactly do they have to “prove to the world”?”Prove the investment nations around the world are making for them are worth it.  Prove they deserve a nation.  They fail miserably at both.”Look at the decolonization during the 1950s and 1960s. You can be sure as hell there were some corrupt people there. Does that mean those countries shouldn’t have been granted their independence?”Perhaps they shouldn’t have been given their independence until they demonstrated they could crawl.  Who ran Zimbabwe better, Britain or Mugabe? When was Africa run better, under colonies or now?  The answer is obvious, ya don’t want to say it, and I hate saying it, but it’s obvious and for a reason it is.
“As for the rockets, once against you’re generalizing. It’s extremely easy to take an enormous amount of cases and simplify it as, “Terrorists attacked Israel. Israel responded.” ”Because that’s how it is.  Israel always responds to an attack.  So, the simple conclusion?  Stop attack Israel.  But obviously, that’s not gonna happen and pretending like the palestinians are the victims is a rejection of reality.”From your last two paragraphs, I’m not even sure if there’s even a point in continuing this discussion. Clearly you’ve already come to a conclusion that Palestinians are always the source of conflict. I mean, your point about the settlements is laughable. I don’t condone violence, but are you honestly trying to portray settlers as “innocent victims”?”
Yes, they are the victims.  They go where they need to.  The examples of Israelis flying off the hook are few and far between.  The examples of muslims?  One need only look at the hundreds of terrorists swapped for Gilad Shalit.  

Okay, you really just argued in favor of colonialism? And your response to your generalization is simply “because that’s how it is.” Well, that’s all I needed to know. No need to continue this discussion.

”
Aww, cute. How about you make a similar map with black African countries and South Africa? Those silly blacks were complaining about whites having their own country… Ugh, how foolish of them.”
You’re right, my bad.  They should’ve been left to rot as they are now.  Well, most of them(I’m not knocking Africa and them running the countries on their own, but you brought it up…)

he is in campaign mode i am surprised he isnt pushing for every fringe group and sending them letters of support,  then once re elected not actually doing anything he promises

i do not think he actually said he was against it but more that its not a life he would choose but he supports the union/marriage of all. As democrats, we might not always believe the choice for our own lives but we can not tell others how to live their life.

There is no such thing as “His husband…” Where did you learn grammar, watching “Fame?”

Don’t you mean everyTHING Miss Thing?

I think they’re angry cuz Minneapolis out produces all those nations. That is pretty humiliating. Minneapolis could be just a little less successful and not stick it in their face.

Aww, cute. Someone who failed in Comparative Analysis but doesn’t want the class to go entirely to waste.

Yes but one usually identifies the country and the means instead of making Israel out to be at the bottom with Gaza and Hamas. But Monsieur A isn’t an apologist for Hamas, no. He only fails at comparative analysis when it fails in his direction.

Please, do show where the comparison is wrong.