Well, as Nancy Pelosi said, we had to pass the bill to find out what was in it.

It’s not totally unreasonable to speculate. Single payer has been the cry of the left for years. But in reality single payer is politically unpopular and they had to pass something so they get this watered down bill that was written by lobbyists. It’s most likely not a grand conspiracy to usher in single payer health care.

Pathetic, false and sad quote by Coburn.

Just because the GOP did NOTHING on health care for 8 years and the Democrats got something done for middle class Americans he seeks to diminish Obama and the Democrats.

Par for the course for Republicans who are on the side of insurance company CEO’s who screw us all over. The Democrats are trying to level the playing field and give THE PEOPLE a few basic human rights. The right to buy health care regardless of a pre-existing condition.

I guess Coburn wants those people to jut die.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the GOP are pathetic and Americans see through it.

They did in 2006, they did in 2008 and I’m hoping the surprise pundits again and reject this party of liars now pretending to be deficit savvy (after racking up record debts under Bush) and now pretending to be populists.

shootfromthehip said:
the Democrats got something done for middle class

Yep, the Democrats sure did something for the middle class with Obamacare…namely, passed a law that forces them to buy health insurance even if they don’t want it, that kills jobs by adding countless new regulations for businesses with US employees, that steals money from their Medicare coverage when they retire, that turns the IRS into a turbocharged secret police, and creates 18 new taxes.

With help like that, it’s amazing that the middle class has turned on Obama, huh?

“that turns the IRS into a turbocharged secret police.”

Watching Alex Jones much you conspiracy retard?

You lie so reflexively it’s like your oxygen.

shootfromthehip said:
you conspiracy retard

I state facts. You come back with insults. To each his own.

shootfromthehip said:
“that turns the IRS into a turbocharged secret police.”

Watching Alex Jones much you conspiracy retard?

You lie so reflexively it’s like your oxygen.

According to Nina Olson of the IRS, Obamacare will require an expansion of IRS activities that will “involve nearly every division and function of the IRS.” According to the Congressional Budget Office, the IRS is likely to spend between $5 billion and $10 billion more on public surveillance activities linked to Obamacare. By one estimate, as many as 16,500 new IRS agents will be required. Probably an overly generous estimate, but the level of intrusion into the lives of citizens and businesses will be enormous by any measure. Olson herself admits that Obamacare is “the most extensive social benefit program the IRS has been asked to implement in recent history.”

But anyone who worries about this massive increase in federal intrusion is, according to shootfromthehip, a retard. Wow, way to go hipster! Of course, this is the way the Left always responds to criticism. No facts, no reasoned position, no dialogue, just spewing out insults. That’s why they have lost the support of the voters and will get trounced come November.

And you do nothing but take lies and repeat them as talking points.

Let’s track how an estimate becomes spin becomes a lie becomes a sound bite. First, the estimate: The CBO predicted that costs related to the Affordable Care Act would “probably include an estimated $5 billion to $10 billion over 10 years for administrative costs of the Internal Revenue Service.” This money, incidentally, isn’t to audit people or go door-to-door enforcing the individual mandate. It’s primarily to give subsidies to qualifying small businesses and individuals. But put that aside for the moment.

On March 18, the Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee put out a news release saying the “IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional auditors, agents and other employees.” As you might expect, “may” does some heavy lifting here. First, Republicans are using $10 billion, not $5 billion, as the number beneath their estimate. Second, as FactCheck.org says, the GOP “simply divided the spending (which they figured could be $1.5 billion per year once the law is fully effective) by the current average payroll cost for the entire IRS workforce.”

In other words: No money for desks, office equipment, rent or anything else. Every possible dollar is hiring “IRS agents.” And it doesn’t account for annual raises. Oh, and before I forget, “agents” is also there to mislead. As FactCheck.org notes, “there’s a huge difference between an IRS revenue agent — who calls on taxpayers and conducts face-to-face audits — and the workers who make up the bulk of IRS employees. Those who work at the IRS include clerks, accountants, computer programmers, telephone help line workers and other support staff. In fact, IRS revenue agents make up only 15 percent of the IRS workforce.”

So let’s go back to Gingrich’s original sentence. “One of the things in the health bill is 16,000 additional IRS agents,” he said. First, that’s not a “thing in the health bill.” It’s an extrapolation from a CBO report. Second, the word “is” is wrong, as even the original GOP spin only used the word “may.” Third, the number 16,000 is wrong. Fourth, the word “agents” is wrong. But if the statement gets no credit for truth, it’s at least efficient: Not just anyone could pack four falsehoods into 13 words. But Gingrich, now, he’s a professional.

To quote Ronald Reagan, “The problem with liberals is not that they are ignorant, the problem is that they KNOW so much that is not so.”
Shooterboy, RRK, BFD and GBR are loaded with so much info that isn’t so they make Paris Hilton look like a genius.

Hip, I’m not trying to be insulting but, a simple answer to a simple question.

If I don’t pay for the ‘Obama Mandated Health Care Plan’, who comes after me?

“No facts, no reasoned position, no dialogue, just spewing out insults.”

Felix, did you get enough facts in the above?

Just checking.

I’m happy to also insult you if that better fits your narrow minded meme.

AND GORDON! My dear washed up friend. Reagan was not a genius and I am not a boy. I lived through the Reagan years and remember his idiocy well.

Reagan was an actor who consulted Astrologists for policy decisions with his wife.

All your misty-eyed romanticism and revisionism doesn’t change a thing to those of us old enough to remember him and his failures (and yes, he had success, too).

Sure he was a genial man, but a genius he was not.

“If I don’t pay for the ‘Obama Mandated Health Care Plan’, who comes after me?”

FBI, CIA, ICE and Alex Jones.

They will take you to a FEMA camp for debriefing and then off you go to Guantanamo.

Get a grip. The law will not be enforced.

Now I am going to a great labor day party in the sun (as much fun as it is spending my day off with all you bitter people, I think my friends might be just a bit more fun).

I love Budweiser and BBQ and America.

God bless burgers and wings.

I’ve always thought that health care reform was more about redistribution of money than actual health.

We desperately need reform, but the Democrats can’t do anything well & everyone seems to be too much in the pockets of the industry.

Thanks for the TRUTH, Senator Coburn!

We’ve got DEMLIBS on the RUN and they don’t know where to GO!

They are running fast and hard from their disastrous Health Care Reform and President!

Shooterboy, to quote Ronald Reagan, “There you go again”.

You know so much that isn’t so. Ronald Reagan did not consult ” Astrologists” and there is no one that claims he did. His wife did. There is NO one that says he was there when SHE did. My guess is that you repeat a lot of other lies that have no basis in fact about him.

You need help kid.

shootfromthehip said:
And you do nothing but take lies and repeat them as talking points.

Let’s track how an estimate becomes spin becomes a lie becomes a sound bite. First, the estimate: The CBO predicted that costs related to the Affordable Care Act would “probably include an estimated $5 billion to $10 billion over 10 years for administrative costs of the Internal Revenue Service.” This money, incidentally, isn’t to audit people or go door-to-door enforcing the individual mandate. It’s primarily to give subsidies to qualifying small businesses and individuals. But put that aside for the moment.

On March 18, the Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee put out a news release saying the “IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional auditors, agents and other employees.” As you might expect, “may” does some heavy lifting here. First, Republicans are using $10 billion, not $5 billion, as the number beneath their estimate. Second, as FactCheck.org says, the GOP “simply divided the spending (which they figured could be $1.5 billion per year once the law is fully effective) by the current average payroll cost for the entire IRS workforce.”

In other words: No money for desks, office equipment, rent or anything else. Every possible dollar is hiring “IRS agents.” And it doesn’t account for annual raises. Oh, and before I forget, “agents” is also there to mislead. As FactCheck.org notes, “there’s a huge difference between an IRS revenue agent — who calls on taxpayers and conducts face-to-face audits — and the workers who make up the bulk of IRS employees. Those who work at the IRS include clerks, accountants, computer programmers, telephone help line workers and other support staff. In fact, IRS revenue agents make up only 15 percent of the IRS workforce.”

So let’s go back to Gingrich’s original sentence. “One of the things in the health bill is 16,000 additional IRS agents,” he said. First, that’s not a “thing in the health bill.” It’s an extrapolation from a CBO report. Second, the word “is” is wrong, as even the original GOP spin only used the word “may.” Third, the number 16,000 is wrong. Fourth, the word “agents” is wrong. But if the statement gets no credit for truth, it’s at least efficient: Not just anyone could pack four falsehoods into 13 words. But Gingrich, now, he’s a professional.

Plenty of rhetoric. The fact remains that the IRS itself admits that this bill demands a huge expansion of its forces. And if you don’t follow the dictates of this 2,000-page bill they are required to track you down and enforce compliance. Anyone who has any experience with the IRS will only laugh at your remark that they won’t enforce the bill. Maybe you don’t make enough money to pay taxes, but those who do can will assure that the IRS plays hardball, and will do so with the Obamacare requirements. You can’t spin your way out of that. Of course, you can always call me a retard, as you have already demonstrated so eloquently.

juan said:
Thanks for the TRUTH, Senator Coburn! We’ve got DEMLIBS on the RUN and they don’t know where to GO! They are running fast and hard from their disastrous Health Care Reform and President!

The ones who are really running are the GOP. Running from reality. they believe anyone is stupid enough to believe people will vote the no idea idiots who got us into this mess with the Bush tactics (TARP Program, tax cuts for the rich)

also applies to this. calling this TRUTH when in reality it’s grade a right-wing a PROPAGANDA BULLSHIT from the a GOP learning well from faux news. they must have read that bullshit story about Obama’s stimulus costing more than Bush’s Iraq war using the CBO’s non-exsitant data.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/aug/25/mark-tapscott/did-stimulus-cost-more-war-iraq/

Slightly off topic, but I’m oddly fascinated with Coburn’s awesome hair.

@felixw: I try not to venture too often into politics in comments to this blog, but if everyone complies with the Health Care Act, then the IRS will not need as many “agents” and most people will never know that they’re there.

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Magister said:
@felixw: I try not to venture too often into politics in comments to this blog, but if everyone complies with the Health Care Act, then the IRS will not need as many “agents” and most people will never know that they’re there.

Magister, I suggest you ask a representative sample of people whether they have ever had the IRS come after them to collect money because the IRS had made a bureaucratic mistake and that actually no money was due to the government. This has happened to me on more than one occasion, and — after considerable amount of photocopying, mailing certified letters, etc. — I have been able to get the IRS to admit that they’ve made a mistake. But what a enormous hassle. And I know many other people that this has happened to.

It’s naive to think that the IRS won’t use the same heavy handed enforcement methods in implementing Obamacare — an approach that, in essence, boil down to “guilty until proven innocent.” Yes, you are forced to pay up (with fines and interest) until you categorically prove your innocence. Then again, a sizable percentage of what the Democrats call their base wouldn’t have much experience of this, since they tend to receive from the Federal Government rather than contribute — and build their political agenda around ways of keeping things that way.

@felixw: Why would you think that myself, Warren Buffett and Ted Turner pay no taxes?

Hicks. Hillbillies. Woodchucks. Murcuhn Patriots all!!

Magister said:
@felixw: Why would you think that myself, Warren Buffett and Ted Turner pay no taxes?

Very funny…. I’ll give you credit for that one.