Mediaite tried to reach the Amish men for comment but, for some reason, we couldn’t find them in the phone book.

They were probably pitching pennies at the new Amish Casino in Bowling Green .

They all look like terrorists to me.  I say we send them to Gitmo.

They have come a long way, the McDonald’s Restaurant in Muhlenberg, Ky. has hitching posts for their customer’s horses. The Amish children seemed to love the place.

You should have just went to the Amish Market like I’m going to do later!

Did these Amish enter into a contract with the state(drivers license), thereby agreeing to be bound by the vehicle code book of the state? Are horse drawn buggies considered motor vehicles in Kentucky? Is running lights, safety glass windshields, pneumatic tires, and hydraulic brakes the next “mandatory equipment” for these Amish buggies?
Do the Amish have to comply with the seat belt law in their horse drawn buggies too?
 How about licensed drivers of 3000lb + vehicles be required to pay attention to the road, what if a cow walks into the road? Or perhaps they should make mandatory bright orange triangles be displayed on cows, and overweight(slow moving) pedestrians too, but wait, how many vehicles are involved in collisions with stationary objects? If that exceeds the buggy collisions, maybe all stationary objects along highways need mandatory orange triangles too!

So they are repressive.  Thats funny.   They are what they want to be, and they dont need your permission nor approval.  You seem to me just another religion hater and we know what that means.  AND no,  the world does not revolve around your silly notion of how it should all be.  Now please go back to your coke snortting and leave those people alone.  Oh and by the way,  YES there are many stupid laws on the books.  I guess it gives some folks something to do.  Maybe they could spend some time getting rid of some of the trash they live with.

The triangles were put into use in PA and the Amish there conceded it was the lesser of two choices b/c too many were getting hit/injured/killed. Since we’re not taking vehicles off the road anytime soon, it was in their best interest. You can be a smart ass all you want, but the imp dialogue to be having is how to respect their rights to live as they wish to, and still keep them safe as they travel via horse/buggy in modern day chaos.

Does a photo steal a person’s soul x 1000 if it’s posted online?

No. #2 appears to be the rebel of the group.  I mean look at that non hat-haired head and that unbuttoned shirt.  That just screams “Amish ladies, here’s a real rebel for ya”

What ever happened to “Grandfather Laws”?  Sounds like it should apply here.

Those are some bad ass beards. I am envious. They put my goatee to shame.

Someone should tell them that the cool thing now is to smile for your mugshot. Worked well for John Edwards, Paris Hilton and Tom Delay.

They object to a simple bright orange traffic triangle? Isn’t it for their own best interest not to get rear ended?
If nothing else, it is an animal cruelty issue for not having any triangle puts their horses in harms way.

This is an overreaction by the Amish. There has to be some give or take.

Free the Amish 8!

Cows are not usually allowed on roads in the East. For this reason. There is no open range law in Kentucky. When they rancher does cross a road with a herd, I believe by law there has to be some sort of warning on any road of significance.

These Amish are crybabys. A triangle is reasonable. This is not a slippery slope issue. They deserve to be arrested for repeated violations.

Perhaps I should be able to drink and drive if I say it is part of my religion.

It’s Sacramental wine, officer. I just came from church. Part of my religion. I have a right to be sh!t  faced drunk on it while I drive. Want a sip officer?

If nothing else, they deserve home arrest with a monitoring ankle bracelet (I guess if you want to really piss them off, give them a florescent pink bracelet)

So a Rastafarian should be able to light up a big fat “J” in their car while cruising on the road?

These Amish deserved to get in trouble. If a family member was in an accident because of them, you may change your tune.

People think that the Amish are saints but I live near them here in Central Pa. They are the #1 puppy mill breeders around, they are always getting in trouble for this. It is horrible the way they treat animals. Their children are often hurt in accidents with cars, they often are on the roads by themselves in small charts as young as 10 years old. It is also well know that they grow some of the best weed around, right in the middle of their corn fields. Please do not let their “quaint” looks fool you. They find ways around things, you see them on gas powered motor scooters and now they are using cell phones. Many of them are very kind and generous but just like any group, there are bad seeds in there.

Hobbitual criminals, it looks to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg

Holy crap!!  I just glanced at the photo with out seeing the headline and I thought maybe the 7 dwarfs had tried to knock off a 7-11.  The photo is priceless…

If you ride a vehicle on a public road, you must abide by the laws of that road.  They ‘entered a contract’ the moment they take their buggy onto a public road. 

They are not considered motor vehicles, so they have their own set of rules.  For example, they now have to steer from the left instead of the right, they must have lanterns in the front and since they don’t decorate or use any light colors on their buggies, they must use these stickers so that they are visible at night.

Frankly, I don’t think that asking someone to stick a stupid sticker on the back of their pitch-black vehicle in order to keep them and other motorists from colliding into each other is a big infringement on their liberty, as you seem to be implying.  Seriously, these buggies are pitch black and they travel a quarter the speed of the rest of traffic.  If you’re taking an issue with these orange stickers in light of these facts, you’re an ideological buffoon.

Arrest Sarah Palin for using cocaine or paying black men for sex, but not these guys. Please.

They are “crybabys”??  (First of all, it’s spelled “crybabies”; secondly…)  Really?  So Ghandi was a “crybaby” for sticking to his principles and standing up to his government?  After all, HE was arrested for not paying fines for minor violations, etc!  So MLK was ”crybaby” for standing up for what he believed in, or the countless ppl who followed him and were arrested for trying to change laws they deemed unjust (and others thought were “reasonable”)?  While I don’t mean to speak to the “injustice” of being made to use an orange triangle on a horse-drawn buggy, whether you beleive as they do or not, it DOES violate their religious principles.  They are not asking to sacrifice any animals, marry underage children, or anything like that.  They just believe it is wrong to have a buggy without a huge triangle on it. So, while it might seem a “reasonable” request to you and I– a wolrd removed from their upbringing and religion– it is obviously extremely “UNreasonable” to them.  To them, it is “reasonable” to ask a government to NOT force them to wear or bear something on their possessions that they find offensive.  If you were REQUIRED– by LAW– to put a huge Nazi swastika, or a huge cross/Star of David/crescent moon/religious-symbol-of-which-you-least-agree, or a huge pro-GOP/pro-Obama (pick your least favorite) campaign sticker on your vehicle, wouldn’t you find that even a tad “Big Brother” and want to protest that law?  Wouldn’t you find that offensive and maybe even worth going to jail?  Wouldn’t you at least refuse to obey that law?That is what THEY are doing, in their minds.And btw, no matter where you are in the USA, when you are driving ANYwhere, on ANY road… it is the DRIVER’s responsibility to be able to stop on a dime in case of ANY unpredictable surprise in the road– be it small child, tiny dog, wild animal, or HUGE horse-drawn buggy– with or without orange triangle.  It is NEVER the fault of the object they hit– even if the tree DID jump out in the road when you’re driving drunk.While I agree the triangle is safer, it is still the automobile driver’s responsibility to drive cautiously.  Period.  And they are still within their rights to peacefully object to the actions of their government, if they deem them unjust.  Period.

More evidence of how America is completely whored-out to the Automobile!

Where’d you get that crap? You must have just pulled that out of your ass!

These are a peaceful people and should be left alone instead of being treated the same way the indigenous American people were treated when Europeans decided to “settle” the land.
There is also religious persecution here…..The same persecution Christians are getting from liberal tree-huggers.

I hope they take this to the Supreme Court! But, not to worry, you disrespectful drivers of vehicles that can go 120 MPH, they won’t do that. It is against their religion. Why can we not accommodate these peaceful people in KY? It’s not as if there were 20,000 of them on the road at one time. It is just that automobile dirivers today are too self-important and impatient to be on the road!

If we cannot accommodate the Amish lifestyle on the roads, then we must provide alternative roads for them. Right? There goes your tax dollars. To talk to them about safety is one thing, to arrest them is ludicrous! They should sue for opposition to their religion or something – it in the constitution, dude!

 I think Glen Rick pulled it out of Sarah Palin’s ass.

Amish hate puppies.  Should have known.  

Yes, Rastafarians should be allowed to blaze while driving and the Amish should be allowed to take a horse and buggy on the street.  Whatever happened to freedom of religion?

Its Glen Rice you idiot, my god you liberal are failures.

No, we don’t need to build alternative roads for them.  The fact of the matter is that there are members of their community that comply with the law.  In fact, nearly all of them do.  Only these guys refused.

The law in question is already an extremely lax one due to their restrictive religious beliefs.  If they wanted to really press the issue of safety, they honestly should also have some form of electric lighting on their buggy.  Seriously, it’s just a damn sticker and it’s there not only for their safety but for the safety of others.

They might try to sue but they have no case.  The First Amendment does two things: it prevents the establishment of a state faith and it prevents governments (federal, state and municipal) from establishing laws that specifically target a religious practice unless there is compelling interest.  Considering that the law is not specifically targeting that practice and that there is a compelling interest in the name of public safety, I don’t think they’d win.

If people can get a DUI/DWI for driving a typical riding lawnmower drunk on a neighborhood street (this has happened many a time in various states) the Amish can get it trouble for not having a safety triangle.

And yes, they are driving a vehicle. Propelled by horse power. If the law does not consider this a type of vehicle in Kentucky, the state Assembly and Governor of Kentucky need to change the law and consider a horse and buggy to be a type of vehicle.

So perhaps the reason people in my neck of the woods in Florida don’t use their turn signals is because of their religion? Who would have known?

Why should rudeness considered a religious exception?  And yes, the Amish involved here are being rude towards the surrounding community. And dangerous.

I’ve just started a new religion. According to my religion, and my deep seated convictions to uphold the faith, I have to build all my churches in the middle of the roadway. And since, I believe, as apparently you do too, my religious beliefs trump any secular laws, I’m sure you’ll support me in this.

I hope everyone commenting here is being consistent pro/con with whatever comments concerning rules/laws enforcement they might have made on this article:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/questions-remain-after-head-scarf-brawl-at-rye-playland/

Oh no, it happened, I’m sure I heard Sarah was snorting coke and having sex with black male prostitutes.Wait a minute, that wasn’t it, oh yea, she was actually whoring for the Koch brothers, not snorting coke and having sex with brothers. 

No Obama closed it.  Oh wait…………he lied about that too.

Long live General Zod!

General Zod gets worse. Wait till he gets going on growing up in the racist south… Southern FLORIDA! General Zod is also an adamant weather data tracker… Zod will tell you that too… General Zod is the arbiter of all things right and wrong, even if Zod cannot spell correctly. Don’t feed the troll err, the freak.

Tell that to all of the illegal aliens like like Onyango Obama who drive any way they want to, and kill Americans while driving drunk…

More police state bullshit.

Can’t wait for it all to collapse.

“I don’t think” is the smartest thing you ever typed. Amendment 1: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or the press, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” THAT IS VERBATIM.

The First Amendment, professor, guarantees SIX RIGHTS not 2! You typed “from establishing laws that specifically target a religious practice unless there is compelling interest.” Where is “compelling interest” in the Amendment? It is NOT. None of what you typed is IN THE AMENDMENT! It specifically FORBIDS any governmental “compelling interest” with respect to religion, either the establishment of, or the free exercise thereof! So your conclusion statement is FALSE:  “Considering that the law is not specifically targeting that practice and
that there is a compelling interest in the name of public safety, I
don’t think they’d win.” Compelling interest in public safety is your liberal public school education failing you, professor. But keep typing your brilliant liberal crap.

If it’s a private road and not public, you can probably do that.

Like Bill Clinton! Slick Willey. Algore get his shokra released yet? Has the Breck Girl made an honest woman out of his new baby momma? Barney Frank hired a
male prostitute who ran a prostitution service from Frank’s residence in
the 1980s. Only two Democrats in the House of Representatives voted to
censure him in 1990. Word is, he teabagged all but those 2 democrats. Gerry Studds never met a male he didn’t wan to teabag. Teddy Kennedy killed Mary Jo Kopechne. Michael Kennedy had an affair with a babysitter. She was 14. William Smith (Kennedy’s nephew) raped a woman in Palm Beach, FL. I’ll bet Marilyn Monroe would have lived longer if she stayed away from Jack and Bobby! Michael Skakel killed Martha Moxley with a golf club when they were 15.

Keep “hearing” things mandingo. Until you have proof, you should shut up.

The Amish need to pimp it up a bit…
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/obama-debuts-monster-campaign-bus-1313447363-slideshow/president-barack-obamas-bus-drives-past-corn-fields-photo-195228704.html

Of federal court decisions, 60% of laws passed that put a burden on religious liberty have survived ‘strict scrutiny’ (ie compelling state interest) in the courts. So whether or not YOU believe it completely forbidden to use “compelling state interest,” in regards religion, that isn’t the reality of it in this country.

“Citing safety reasons, the park has banned “headgear” on certain rides.
The rule was put in place three years ago, mostly to prevent hats from
falling onto the tracks, and it is not Muslim specific. For one group of
girls, however, this did not suffice.” The women were free to stay off of the ride, for safety and it applies to EVERYONE. If one of the rags got caught up in the ride and decapitated one of them, who would be responsible?

You got an orange triangle on the back of your car? Until everyone is mandated to do so, it is selective. Are the Amish required to have insurance on the wagons? Are they required to have a license plate? Are they required to have a registration? Do they have to pass a written or physical driving test to drive the wagons? Bicycle riders are required none of these, or triangles, and no one gets a fine for lack of reflectors when darting in and out of city traffic, not obeying the laws of the road as they are required.

For those who think it is strange non motorized vehicles are subject to any restriction, remember that in a majority of jurisdictions riding a bicycle without reflectors and or some sort of safety light is against the laws of the road. There are also cities (not mine) that even require bicycle license tags although I do feel this goes way to far.

I am totally against draconian restrictions, but some sort of safety warning on a horse and buggy on a public road is reasonable. If the Amish in this Kentucky town have a reasonable alternative to the triangle, I agree it should be seriously looked into.

Obviously there are reasonable restrictions on the use of religion as a get out of jail free card.  Warren Jeffs
for one is an example (yes this example is extreme but it is relevant.)

How long was this riding without a safety triangle permitted by the local authorities before they decided to cite and then arrest all eight Amish? Is this just part of the crackdowns on road rules and such being conducted nationwide by LE to boost sagging local gov’t revenues? These guys had to have been doing this for some time and nothing happened until this? 

Also, why did they arrest all eight of them? Whenever a driver gets pulled over for a moving violation, etc., don’t they usually just cite the driver and not the passengers? Citing and arresting all 8 men seems a bit excessive here. It will be interesting to see a follow-up and finding out if the charges are dropped, how the Judge deals with this, etc., etc. Hopefully it won’t become a gross miscarriage of justice simply because the Amish won’t really stick up for themselves in our courts. 

I am surprised they were weren’t wearing Obama t-shirts like other people getting their pictures taken by the police;

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/2008-mug-shots-year?page=19

I am surprised they were weren’t wearing Obama t-shirts like other people getting their pictures taken by the police;

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/2008-mug-shots-year?page=19

Holy god, guy.  Read SCOTUS rulings.  Specifically, Sherbert v. Verner, which established the concept of ‘compelling interest’, and Employment Division v. Smith.I mention only the establishment clause and the free exercize clause of the First amendment because we’re discussing religious rights.  I’m well aware of the other limitations established by the amendment, but they are not relevant to the discussion.  Thanks for the patronizing pedantry.

Holy god, guy.  Read SCOTUS rulings.  Specifically, Sherbert v. Verner, which established the concept of ‘compelling interest’, and Employment Division v. Smith.I mention only the establishment clause and the free exercize clause of the First amendment because we’re discussing religious rights.  I’m well aware of the other limitations established by the amendment, but they are not relevant to the discussion.  Thanks for the patronizing pedantry.

But, I must point out that you are actually making my point for me.  The original language of the First Amendment only deals with one thing in regards to religion: the government cannot establish one.

Given that the Constitution, as written, only deals with the establishment of a state faith, you should have no objection to their arrest.  That is, if your only going by the Constitution and not 200+ years of legal precedent. 

Zod, you said, “a majority of jurisdictions riding a bicycle without reflectors and or
some sort of safety light is against the laws of the road.” Got any data on that? How about he laws in Kentucky Mr. Know it all? Stop spewing stupid things you do not have facts on! Answer these questions with your freaky data: Are the Amish required to have insurance on the wagons? Are they
required to have a license plate? Are they required to have a
registration? Do they have to pass a written or physical driving test to
drive the wagons? How about seat belts, and helmets there, General? Are the Amish in Kentucky required to wear them too?

Which cities require bicycle tags? You don’t know if that is true or not, as you failed to cite one.

The term “reasonable” is extremely subjective, Zod. And demanding a requirement that is not applied to all drivers is UNREASONABLE. They have not gotten out of jail free either data cruncher, as the article states: “Graves County District Judge Deborah Hawkins Crooks sentenced the nine
Monday to three to 10 days in jail for refusing to pay the fines.” They are IN jail retard in lieu of paying the fines!

Life still tough on the rough, racist, mean streets of God’s waiting room down there in Florida?

And this has something to do with Amish in Kentucky how?

You have a plethora of meaningless political grudges, don’t you?

Cyclists are required to have reflectors, just like the Amish.

The difference between this event and the one you mentioned is that the woman at Playland agreed not to ride the roller coaster she was prohibited from riding due to her hajib.  She was only asking for her money back, which I consider fair.  The Amish men in question decided to do the opposite and drive on a public road without a safety reflector.

You’d be singing a different tune if you lost a loved one after they ran into one of these pitch black buggies at night.

alot of information about this case doesn’t seem to be posed here however the Amish did offer alternative methods to increase safty over the orange triangles in an attempt to compromise and the courts said no they wanted the orange triangles. The Amish offered to put reflective tape on their buggies as well as hanging lanterns to make them more visable at night and the courts said that wouldn’t help them be more visable during the day and refused their offer. The judge made it very clear that this isn’t about trying to see them at night but rather during the day and personally I think any driver that can’t see a buggy going down that raod in the middle of the day shouldn’t be driving.
The courts will lay off the Amish if they put an orange triangle up saying they’re a slow moving vehicle and they don’t need to put any lights or reflective tape up, now really how is that any safer then what they proposed?

try looking up what is involved in creating a religion and you’ll see your comment is more comical then anything lol.

Its a shame they arrested the Amish. The judge should of given them the option to either use the orange triangle for their safety and the horses and prevent cars from hitting them OR go to jail Sounds like county was more for money or fine than truely reaching an acceptable outcome for the good of all!!
    . In northern Ohio the Amish and Menites use triangles and some have them  battery powered flashing lights for their safety They do this on there own and not because they are required to do so. . I think fining them was useless because they dont have a lot of income and live very modest. The ones with full beards mean they are married, go tees means they are going steady, and clean shaven means single. They dont wear rings like we do in the English community. I had 5 menites build a horse barn for me about 10yrs ago and lived on my property with a pop up camper for a month. Came in for at least one meal and took showers in evening and I learned a lot. Very honest and smart and hard working. Their church tells them what they can charge for labor. Remember there is good and bad in every group of people, and they told me just because someone says they are Amish, does not mean they know how to build or cook! How true! Any attorneys reading this, help them out please! Thanks!

Thank you.  A reasonable response.

Most of the same sect of Amish use white reflective tape like you mentioned.  I cannot imagine why the judge would take such a tact, considering that the primary issue here are the buggies being invisible at night.

If the Amish agreed to use white reflective tape this should be a non-issue.

You must live near an extreamly liberal Amish sect… most are not that way, well I can’t say about them hiding smoke in their corn as I could see that but motor scooters and cell phones would be a pretty huge deal for the ones I used to live near

The United States Consumer Product Safety Commission requires all bikes sold in the United States that are used on public streets are required to have reflectors, USCPS regulation §1512.1. In California Vehicle Code VC 21201, states all bicycles used on public roads at night MUST have front and back lights, and a red reflector on the rear of the bike and white reflectors on the pedals. 

Here’s Kentucky’s bike regs:

The Kentucky Revised Statues (KRS 189.287) give the Transportation Cabinet the right to “promulgate bicycle safety regulations and standards.”  These regulations are defined in the Kentucky Administrative Regulations (601 KAR 14:020).  The less obvious regulations are summarized below:You MUST use a front light when riding at night or whenever it is darker than usual (i.e. when it is heavily overcast).  [See KRS 189.030(1) for description of when a light is required.]You MUST use a red rear reflector or light on yourself or your bicycle whenever riding on a highway or shoulder (definitions).At night or when overcast (as described above), you MUST use a steady or flashing red rear light.You MUST shout or sound a bell or horn when approaching a pedestrian or other bicycle.It is illegal to carry more passengers than the bicycle was designed to accommodate.You may not carry a package which prevents you from keeping at least one hand on the handlebars.It is illegal to attach yourself or your bicycle to another vehicle.Bicycles shall be operated the same as a motor vehicle EXCEPT for the following:A bicycle MAY be operated on the shoulder of a highway.If a bicycle lane is provided, it MUST be used whenever feasible.Not more than TWO bicycles may ride side-by-side in a single highway lane.

If by ‘create’ you mean ‘register’ a new religion with the government in the USA, I don’t have to. I only need to register it if I want tax exempt status and the ability to accept “charitable” donations. Anyone can create a religion.

If that DID HAPPEN then I could just sue them.

IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY BEING NEGLIGENT.

You’re sowing the seeds for your own tyranny.

God help us with all these laws.

Is it any wonder why we have more people in prison than anyone else on Earth?

Some of you won’t stop till we’re in 1984 and even then you’ll still think you’re right.

there’s a little more information at http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110912/NEWS01/309120084/Amish-men-ordered-jail-after-refusing-pay-fines 
It doesn’t say how long they’ve been fining them but it did say that the fines (for not having orangle triangles) they were arrested for ranged from $148 to more then $600. They have also appealed to the Supreme court however they haven’t decided wheather to hear the cases. The judge also stated that there were 44 more cases involving the same charge on her docket. The Amish sought permission to use lanterns and gray reflective tape rather than orange, but the state and courts have said that wouldn’t be as effective in daytime. Because a buggie in broad daylight is just so hard to see…. sad sad day :(

Amish butter is awesome.

I like the Amish people, but there has to be some reasonable rules on the road.

Of course these guys have a right to groom and look as they see fit, but when I saw their pricture all I could think of is that classic line from “My Cousin Vinny”:

“Yeah, you blend!”

And the questions about the Amish? What are their requirements? Are the Amish required to have insurance on the wagons? Are they
required to have a license plate? Are they required to have a
registration? Do they have to pass a written or physical driving test to
drive the wagons? How about seat belts, and helmets there, General? Are
the Amish in Kentucky required to wear them too?

How many tickets does Kentucky give bicycle violators? Do you live in a city where NO ONE on a bike abides by the law?

They better not ever think of riding a bike there in KY!

They were given the choice to pay the fine or go to jail. They went to jail. It cost Kentucky more to feed them and board them than the fines!

So it is a selective law…

Brother Hezikiah?

The obvious reason about the orange triangle during the day is because the wagons are moving on the roads more slowly then the automobiles and depending on the speed limit, MUCH more slowly. If you are driving at a 45 MPH speed limit and a wagon down the road is going only a few miles an hour you are going to come up on it pretty darn quick and it is in everybody’s best interest that it be recognized as not normal traffic as soon as possible. And it is a matter of giving drivers as much time as possible to be able to slow down if needed. It is the same reason that you see pick-ups with flashing lights and “wide load” signs following slow moving heavy equipment that is on the roadway.

NOTE:

This piece is really worth taking a closer look at, The article is indicative of how accommodating our Society and Culture is to aberrant cultures that exist within the mainstream.  America, from the very beginning was born of a concept of acceptance of unlike peoples, living together.  Read the Declaration of Independence.Admittedly, the journey has been challenging, but, we try, oh so hard, even to our own detriment and danger, to accept people with different ideas and behaviors.  9/11 is an example of being a too lenient and too passive with our accommodation.  Furthermore, from prayer in Public School to the now ‘de riguere’ menorah, next to the creche at Christmas time. (Oops, I mean during the Holidays, condemn me living!)So now lets examine the reflective triangle on the horse dawn buggy?  Government and the Courts have examined, thoroughly, issues similar to this and have put together non-invasive criteria for the people of a State to infringe upon a minorities, Religious Freedom:  See–Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972)…  The regulation must be “neutral on its face.” (Safety) The regulation may “offend the Constitutional requirement,” if there is a compelling Governmental need. The solution must be reasonable as well as other options examined and necessarily discarded, Also, the rule/law, must not create an overt hardship on the minority group being forced to comply.  There has been a series of cases, reasonably decided by the  Supreme Court that had demonstrated the 1st amendment is not absolute,  We can go back to 1878 and the landmark, Reynolds v. U.S., case, which was THE anti Bigamy case.  Certainly that was about Governmental intrusion on religious practice?Anyway, my point is, that despite how trivial something the Government and Courts may dream up, as long as there is a “compelling Governmental interest” certain Constitutional rights may be abrogated.Oh yes, one more thing, did you notice how the Boys from Kentucky resembled the Boys from Saudi Arabia?  Hmm…

Purveyor of Rhetoric

Nice work and research…

Purveyor

Respectfully, read my post at the top.  Adds very nicely to yours and Beggar Boys.  

Well done

WRONG,  You are misinterpreting “a compelling governmental interest,” for anarchy.  Or, trying to be funny, as the Buggy is not what is causing the “collapse?”

I did not know that the Muslim woman simply wanted her money back?  Interesting, if that is the case…

Anyway, you are right about the Amish Men, they made a deliberate act of defiance against a reasonable law.

Purveyor

I heard you were a Professional Lawn Mower Racer?  You race for “Grass Hopper Lawn Mowers?” LOL

Who is your tyre sponsor?  LOL

Hey Freak

I love their facial hair!

Contemporary American society has facial hair issues. I live in a semi rural area. At least beards here are respected.

The history of beards is fascinating. Lots of controversy. Could result in death in many civilizations.

No way will I shave off my bad ass goatee!

Beards help those of us with chin issues. Some take it to the limit.

The mug shots made me think of Scorsese’s “The Departed,” or in this case an Amish “Thee Departed.”
The guy on the lower left looks like the Jack Nicholson-like leader, next to him the Leo DiCaprio undercover cop, in the top row, second picture is the Ray Winstone enforcer, the rest: assorted members of the crime family.

Anne, you have obviously never come up behind an amish buggy after dark. It is impossible to see a black buggy in the dark without lights or some sort of reflective tape or sign. How is that a drivers responsibility to avoid hitting that? I grew up Amish, I know everything, EVERYTHING! about the Amish. Also let me tell you, in these type of groups where they burden themselves down with these ridiculous rules, there is an extreme level of molestation, where fathers are raping their daughters, then drowning the babies from the affair to hide the evidence. These people are an obstinate stubborn bunch of folks constantly trying to out-do each other in oppression. This has nothing to do with religion, In this group the only person even touching the bible is their leader.

Anne, you have obviously never come up behind an amish buggy after dark. It is impossible to see a black buggy in the dark without lights or some sort of reflective tape or sign. How is that a drivers responsibility to avoid hitting that? I grew up Amish, I know everything, EVERYTHING! about the Amish. Also let me tell you, in these type of groups where they burden themselves down with these ridiculous rules, there is an extreme level of molestation, where fathers are raping their daughters, then drowning the babies from the affair to hide the evidence. These people are an obstinate stubborn bunch of folks constantly trying to out-do each other in oppression. This has nothing to do with religion, In this group the only person even touching the bible is their leader.

is the difference between gray reflective tape and lanterns instead of an orange reflector really a compelling interest? thats the compomise these men offerred.  I’d say its not.

It’s not really selective at all. Every vehicle on a public road at night is generally required to have reflectors. Hell, even some states require reflective strips on joggers.

The law does not state that reflectors are only to be mandated at night. And even if it did, would you really go out if your way to remove it every day?

Funny how a bleeding a*s left wing sight such as MEDIAite can wantenly disrespect the rights and wishes of these Amish men, even if they did break the law and others also published same, yet you fight to the death like all good ( bad ) left wing zealots for the privacy and rights of muslim terrorists……how sick is that?

Amish folk are not allowed to photograph themselves or others in accordance with their religious beliefs, so what you’ve done here violates them and their rights and wishes for nothing more than a lame ( Colbert-esque ) joke.

Point taken…

Sadly, I have the feeling of late, that our Government and a plurality of citizens are rooting for the bad guys?  (No matter what the context)

Purveyor

I’ve come close, a couple of times, to buying a .303 Enfield, Jungle Carbine.  I am going to a Gun Show tomorrow,  Hmm…   LOL

Nice choice of a name.  My compliments

Purveyor

Back to issue:  I can’t be sure of the specifics, and even though this is a misdemeanor, perhaps this was an ongoing problem and the DA had the Cops treat the case as a “conspiracy” of sorts?  (That is what the crime resembles.)

Also, I am reasonably certain the ACLU, Jeffrey Feiger, or, Gloria Allred type will show up to represent them?  

This is fairly simple case.  The Judge must compel the Amish to comply or, they suffer the consequences.  The Day-Glo triangles, are a reasonable and minimal intrusion into their religious liberty. After all, what happens when the county doesn’t enforce the law and a Motorcycle plows into the back of a carriage?  

Then who gets the blame?

I am not so much worried about a “miscarriage of justice,” rather the event turning into a three ring circus!

Purveyor

You know, I bet we could pass a law that Muslim women wearing “Burkas” must wear Day Glo triangles, because they resemble stumps?   “Moving” stumps, but “stumps” none the less?  Ouch!

Purveyor

The Amish people are very unique.  Tho I believe it to be time for them to upgrade their transportation.  Have a few learn to drive cars, and then they can go back and fourth to places without horses and buggys.  The buggys do sometimes cause hazards on the roads.  Get a liscense and a van, have a few drivers, and share.  

Jon wrote:  “Mediaite tried to reach the Amish men for comment but, for some reason, we couldn’t find them in the phone book.”

I have an idea Jon, why don’t you get off your butt, take a trip out to interview them one on one.

It is so easy (& fun too) to sit in an office and throw stones.

well if you don’t register then your not going to be recognized by the government to be a religion and therefor can not be prosicuted for you beliefs and wouldn’t be exempt from any laws is my point

Graves County is not around the Bowling Green area. Bowling Green would not receive the fine money.  We have a group of Amish as niegbhors and they don’t have anything but a small red glass lantern to warn drivers at night and nothing during the day.  we are friends wit them, but have almost run over them several times around dusk or dawn.  It is a major safety hazzard.  we have ask them and many think this is an issue that needs to be changed, Don’t judge unless you have a group that drives on your curvy, hilly roads with no lights. 

Man, people really enjoy sliding down slippery slopes into false dichotomies. 

Please tell me how you can reasonably argue that requiring a minimal safety feature on a vehicle, such as a reflective sticker, will logically lead to ’1984′.

The Amish don’t have to follow any of the laws you mentioned, so I think it’s reasonable to expect them to follow the one law they are supposed to.

And I would agree with you.  The point of the law is to make sure the buggy is visible to cars at night.  As such, the judge is being entirely unreasonable in not accepting their compromise.

Yeah, she was actually in the process of trying to get her money back when someone tried to rip her hajib off her head.  Supposedly, that’s what started the fight.

Yeah, she was actually in the process of trying to get her money back when someone tried to rip her hajib off her head.  Supposedly, that’s what started the fight.

by the way, its the color they do not approve of. if the state would allow an exception for  white reflective tape this could be avoided. 3m makes a tape that the locals use that reflects the light back at the source and looks gray/ white but is very bright at night. (I do not know but it works and I use it on my bike) This fits with the Amish sensibility’s and would be visible to the motorist’s.

one again it the color orange that they do not want, white reflector or a red lantern are OK to them but  the state is requiring orange reflectors.

The law in KY for slow moving vehicles is as:

Kentucky Revised Statute 189.050(4)(5)
(4) When in operation on any highway slowmoving
or motorless vehicles, except
bicycles, shall have at least one (1) light on
the left side of the vehicle whether from the
front or rear, showing white and of sufficient
power to reveal clearly the outline of the left
side of the vehicle and in such a manner that
the outline may be observed clearly by
approaching vehicles from a distance of at
least five hundred (500) feet.
(5) When in operation between sunset and
sunrise on any highway, motorless vehicles,
except bicycles, shall have in operation a
four (4) way flasher system, with two (2)
flashing yellow or amber lights visible from
the front of the vehicle and two (2) flashing
red lights visible from the rear of the vehicle.

Kentucky Revised Statute (KRS) 189.820
(1) All slow-moving vehicles sold, leased, or
rented in, or for use within, the Commonwealth
of Kentucky after January 1, 1971,
shall have affixed to them as standard
equipment a slow-moving vehicle emblem.
(2) The slow-moving vehicle emblem shall be
displayed as herein provided on all slow moving
vehicles operated day or night upon
the public roads within the Commonwealth of
Kentucky, no later than January 1, 1973.
(3) The slow-moving vehicle emblem shall be
mounted as near the center of the rear of
the slow-moving vehicle as is practicable,
and the lower edge of the emblem shall
be mounted at least three feet (3′) or more
above the road surface, and shall be
maintained in a clean, reflective condition. 

I live in KY and have great respect for the Amish and how they live. Yes the orange triangle may be considered flashy to them but one flashy thing on a buggy is a small price to pay for the safety of ones family and friends. I myself have seen many Amish on the road at night and that was because of the orange triangle.

The law in KY for slow moving vehicles is as:

Kentucky Revised Statute 189.050(4)(5)
(4) When in operation on any highway slowmoving
or motorless vehicles, except
bicycles, shall have at least one (1) light on
the left side of the vehicle whether from the
front or rear, showing white and of sufficient
power to reveal clearly the outline of the left
side of the vehicle and in such a manner that
the outline may be observed clearly by
approaching vehicles from a distance of at
least five hundred (500) feet.
(5) When in operation between sunset and
sunrise on any highway, motorless vehicles,
except bicycles, shall have in operation a
four (4) way flasher system, with two (2)
flashing yellow or amber lights visible from
the front of the vehicle and two (2) flashing
red lights visible from the rear of the vehicle.

Kentucky Revised Statute (KRS) 189.820
(1) All slow-moving vehicles sold, leased, or
rented in, or for use within, the Commonwealth
of Kentucky after January 1, 1971,
shall have affixed to them as standard
equipment a slow-moving vehicle emblem.
(2) The slow-moving vehicle emblem shall be
displayed as herein provided on all slow moving
vehicles operated day or night upon
the public roads within the Commonwealth of
Kentucky, no later than January 1, 1973.
(3) The slow-moving vehicle emblem shall be
mounted as near the center of the rear of
the slow-moving vehicle as is practicable,
and the lower edge of the emblem shall
be mounted at least three feet (3′) or more
above the road surface, and shall be
maintained in a clean, reflective condition. 

I live in KY and have great respect for the Amish and how they live. Yes the orange triangle may be considered flashy to them but one flashy thing on a buggy is a small price to pay for the safety of ones family and friends. I myself have seen many Amish on the road at night and that was because of the orange triangle.

The Moe with a beard is not a good look. Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk

Oppression. Laws should protect people from doing harm to others. Not protect them from doing harm to themselves. Go Amish!

A vehicle doesn’t have to have a motor in it to be a vehicle. The question would be, what does the law recognize. Does it state slow moving vehicles, or slow moving motor vehicles?
The reason for the triangles is because people in the motor vehicles have such a low regard for human life that they travel down these county roads at such high speeds that they leave themselves no way out when confronted with a potential collision and they end up killing or seriously injuring the people in the slow moving vehicles. 
So the signs are an attempt to protect the Amish from the idiots who have no regard for them in the first place. You are right in that I agree it is ludicrous to punish the victims (or potential victims) who are being forced to go against their religious beliefs just because others have such little regard for their safety. There has to be some way to compromise.

Thank You!
Out with the drug laws, and hello Ladies (of the evening)!.
Here’s my keys, I’m not going anywhere…………….Go Amish!

The drive horse driving buggies people.They go 20 miles an hour

Unjust! 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-the-Amish-Eight/202380496494202?sk=wall

There are other reflective devices that can be affixed to buggies that aren’t brightly colored.  You can find them in any runner’s store.  They’re typically peel and stick.  Easy enough to tack it on with a nail instead of using the sticky back.  You should buy one and give it to your neighbor, explaining you’re concerned for their safety. It might be a good compromise.

I don’t think it’s about judgement toward them .It’s more so about safety.

If that be the case they don’t need to be one state highways.

comcast.net       Got it?

Why ? Because of whats at the root of all these new laws being spewed out every time you turn around – to keep filling the city/town/village coffers. Another ‘tax’. Visit your local court room on court day. Municipalities are raking in the bucks hand over fist and they have become dependent on the money they rake in each week. 
And in NYS, theres a $75. surcharge tacked on to every fine paid in local court(s).
  If you’re thinkin’ ‘well if you’re guilty then you deserve to be fined’ guess again. Most people can’t afford to plead ‘not guilty’ or  fight trumped up charges (the charge always leaves ‘wiggle room’ to be plea bargained down with the DA) and so people accept the plea agreement because they can’t afford to fight the charge. I’ve been in several court houses where its announced by the Judge before hand ‘don’t bother trying to plea bargain unless you are represented by an attorney’. Its a scam pure and simple. 
  I too was one of the ‘they asked for it’ crowd at one time… until I got caught up in something ridiculous and I found myself in one of these money printing mills. My eyes were opened brother !!
  If you believe you aren’t ‘guilty as CHARGED’, no matter, you WILL settle (unless you’re rich). They have ya by the short hairs and you ain’t leavin’ without paying. And the kicker is that many of them expect you to bow, thank them for their ‘kindness’ and remember them, favorably, on election day ! “Let them eat cake”.
   I’m old enough to remember when times were very different. A reasonable Judge and DA and local cops would have checked into the counter proposal from these guys without court, fines, jail etc. 
  I wonder just how long this law has been on the books ? How did people get by in the years prior to the law ? I know, times change, new ideas, new concerns etc but it seems so many are concerned these days as to what the ‘other guy’ is doing. .. and then figure out a law that should be passed for your/my/their own good. 
 Not sure about the past few years but at one time, for many years, statistics were that about 50 thousand would be / were killed every year on our nations highways – it was predictable.and as certain as summer would follow spring. Yet we still drive. These guys need to be singled out now all of a sudden ? Are they suicidal ?  One would think that if they’ve been told they risk having their family being slaughtered on the roads they would be just as concerned as anyone else. All 8 lost their sense of self preservation simultaneously ? No, I’ve never encountered a buggy on the highway so I should keep quiet on this but I’ve seen enough in general to be very suspicious of the motivations here. “Maybe there oughta be a law that all motor vehicles have ‘governors’ installed to protect the buggies occupants from speeding cars ? Can I get a 2nd here ? I want to protect YOU. Vote for me in 2012.” Cha-ching.
  I wouldn’t doubt either that there aren’t  some ‘political’ concerns going on here also ie: 
 ’See  ? I don’t just hold the Muslims feet to the fire. BTW. we search Catholic nuns at our airport too”.  Whole dang country goin’ to hell in a hand basket. 
 Oh, coincidentally, I see ’1984′ is on tonight (true) . I remember the days when Orwells predictions seemed like just so much sci/fi. 
But hey, that was back in 1984 …

I grew up around Amish people and I have Amish relatives, I almost ran into a hay wagon at night with my cycle a few years ago. I don’t think they realize we can’t see them. Rules are rules and we all have to follow them, its for everyone’s safety. Don’t like the rules, don’t take your buggy on the road. “and there’s nothing worse than driving through horse shit with a clean car”.get a ride in a van like 90% of them do!

I grew up around Amish people and I have Amish relatives, I almost ran into a hay wagon at night with my cycle a few years ago. I don’t think they realize we can’t see them. Rules are rules and we all have to follow them, its for everyone’s safety. Don’t like the rules, don’t take your buggy on the road. “and there’s nothing worse than driving through horse shit with a clean car”.get a ride in a van like 90% of them do!

I am afraid that I am confused by your question, regarding “comcast.net”?

I have access to it…

Sorry for the late reply.

It is my impression, Muslims, tend to be somewhat volatile and , maybe, they bring that on themselves when they move to foreign countries, like America.  However, if and when some foole attempts to manhandle a woman, a man or men in any culture will come to the female’s aid.

The Supreme Court has already addressed your question:  The criteria below must be answered…

1.) Is your religious belief sincerely held?

2.) Is there a compelling Governmental interest in proscribing your behavior?

3.) Is the law prohibiting a first amendment behavior, aimed at a specific group?

Do you recall the American Indians from Utah that got in trouble for using peyote?  Or, when Government want to to flood a valley containing “the Rainbow Bridge?”

They are actually fascinating cases, just thought you might like to know…

Purveyor

The Supreme Court has already addressed your question:  The criteria below must be answered…

1.) Is your religious belief sincerely held?

2.) Is there a compelling Governmental interest in proscribing your behavior?

3.) Is the law prohibiting a first amendment behavior, aimed at a specific group?

Do you recall the American Indians from Utah that got in trouble for using peyote?  Or, when Government want to to flood a valley containing “the Rainbow Bridge?”

They are actually fascinating cases, just thought you might like to know…

Purveyor

One one piece of the message I sent you along with different message with @. understand?

Yeah – these dudes are being mocked and ridiculed all over the internet … hahaha … but wait, why are we not seeing any mugshots of Bankers, Corporate CEOs and Politicians … bunch of sheep …

Bigotry is ugly but anyway arresting people for not wearing little orange triangles? Now who’s being repressive?

or grave yard! I drive a 18 wheeler and have about hit these people a dozen times! I respect them but how can you see them!!!!!!!!! I know I don’t want to be the one who kills a Amish man doing his thing while I am trying to make a living and not speeding just doing the speed limit!

I am sorry your so wrong! a simple triangle would make it where drivers can see them sooner! they are going a snails pace and the speed limit is like 55 I drive a 18 wheeler and have about hit a few of these things simply because its turning dark and you can not see them till your on em! maybe we should make all the speed limits 22mph to suit them? do you like to drive the speed of a buggy? that way someone like me who is just trying to make a living won’t have to live with the deaths of these people for as long as I live!!!!

Religion breeds stupidity. No more need be said.

Leave them alone. Yes, they should follow the law as well as the rest of us but 10 days in jail because of a triangle come on! I am sure there are much more serious crimes that the law could be dealing with.

There is a difference between refusing to be seen on the road at all, and refusing to use the triangle. They did agree to reflective tape, which is actually more reflective than a triangle-it’s DOT approved for OTR use. In addition, from what I understand, it’s not necessarily only the bright color of the triangle, it’s the 3 pts on it as well. It has religious symbolism to them because of the Trinity in the Bible.

Why don’t you just turn on your lights? I don’t get how no one can see them if we use headlights, i mean maybe not being able to see them on the road with your side mirrors but if they are in front of you i mean it has to be kind of impossible to run over them. If someone crosses the road i’m pretty sure you’d be able to see them with your headlights without them having to wear brightly colored clothing.

I definitely agree with BeggarBoy there are many laws that restrict religious practices for example drugs and things like that. Although the only comment i have is to keep “but keep typing your brilliant liberal crap” to yourself. Knowing for a fact that there are religious laws placed by government even if the constitution says otherwise doesn’t mean anything liberal. You are so ignorant to say that comment. You should know that mostly all politicians don’t follow the letter of the Constitution because it was written in a different era and time which is why there are so many amendments to the Constitution specifically for that fact. You need to read up on your politics a little before you bash someone else’s comment.

The problem was not having them during the day, the judge was more stubborn than the Amish, read lbmonkster’s comment : “alot of information about this case doesn’t seem to be posed here however the Amish did offer alternative methods to increase safty over the orange triangles in an attempt to compromise and the courts said no they wanted the orange triangles. The Amish offered to put reflective tape on their buggies as well as hanging lanterns to make them more visable at night and the courts said that wouldn’t help them be more visable during the day and refused their offer. The judge made it very clear that this isn’t about trying to see them at night but rather during the day and personally I think any driver that can’t see a buggy going down that raod in the middle of the day shouldn’t be driving. 
The courts will lay off the Amish if they put an orange triangle up saying they’re a slow moving vehicle and they don’t need to put any lights or reflective tape up, now really how is that any safer then what they proposed?” 

Now you still want to say that the judge was right?

if these folks want to travel on the roads, in a vehicle, they should have to obey that laws of the road.  i do.  and all the other drivers do.  heck, what are the Amish doing on man made roads anyway?  don’t they know we use motorized machines to lay them down?  shouldn’t THAT be against their religion, too? 

I live close to many Amish and we drive on the same roads just fine.They have the right to be there the same as I do.These men that have been fined and arrested have tried to compromise.They have 2 lanterns and reflective tape.I believe this should be enough.Maybe we should just make them roads like all the walking trails that are around.I in NO WAY Thinks this will happen i’m just trying to make a point.I see so many people pointing figures and saying what they think needs to be done.I have yet to see or hear anyone ask what the Amish were willing to do to compromise.I will be at the court house in November when our friends have to go back.At least they will know that not everyone is against them.

I can agree to an extent.Here is where I have a problem with what is going on here in Graves County.These Amish families are trying to compromise.The county is refusing to compromise.They are using reflective tape and lanterns.Why does it have to be orange?Would you feel the same as you do right now if it were your families beliefs and way of life being attacked?

Anne I don’t know where you are from but I would like to know if you would sign the petition I started trying to help the Amish families in Graves County Ky.If you would like to help in any way please email me at angel28607@yahoo.com

Paul I do not know where you grew up at or what Amish community you grew up in,But I know these Amish families and they are nothing like that.I have to say that you don’t sound much like you know what your talking about.I think you are more than likely someone that just wanted to be able to take part in this discussion and get an argument going.If you truly grew up Amish I don’t believe you could say that every Amish community is the same.

When they start paying taxes like the rest of us, they can have their own roads. Furthermore, this isn’t just about their safety. Try rear-ending a horse and buggy at 50mph and walking away from it.