In other words, you take risks, and possibly get some reward for your efforts (and you could very well fail).  But you need to pay a “vig” to the unions. 

Warren acts as if no one who is “wealthy” pays taxes to begin with.  That’s the fallacy of her argument.  Look at the latest AP Fact Check on taxes.  They already pay the lion’s share.   But for the left, it’s never enough.

isn’t that what the existing taxes we pay are supposed to be going to now?  If not, then what are they going to (yes, a loaded question…) 

Who are more dangerous…Jihadist or Liberals????

Who are more dangerous…Jihadist or Liberals????

Nobody is urging de-funding roads, police stations, fire departments, and schools.

What they ARE urging is for the government to stop pissing money away into companies like Solyndra and LightSquared, and then telling us it’s “for the greater good” and that it’s a good use of public money when it clearly is neither.

What they are urging is for politicians to stop intervening in every corner and facet of our lives, telling us we’re not paying enough, telling us we’re always doing something wrong and then holding themselves out as the solution to the problems.

What they are urging is for unions in the public sector, which are driving the cost of government up and the quality of service we get down, to be abolished, or at the very least, controlled.

What they’re urging is a simpler tax code that lowers rates on everyone and eliminates the zillions of deductions people can make to skirt the system.

What they’re urging is less centralized power and more people power.

What they’re urging is for more individual responsibility and less socialization of individual problems.

What they want is less forced collectivism and more individual freedom.

What they want is for their money to be spent responsibly, and to not be treated merely as an ATM for the lives of others in the public sector and for the political careers of people like Elizabeth Warren.

Respectfully, you can go to hell, Mrs. Warren, and take your creed of class warfare with you.

She’s not saying they don’t pay taxes, but taxes are not an individual thing, the cumulative money of them is what we all pay and pays for these protections so you can prosper.

Says Warren “You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory —”

Of course she meant that was before the Obama administration, as Gibson Guitar will attest.

This is only going “viral” to the “progressives” who believe this BS.  Up until they have to pay taxes like Geithner, Rangel, etc.

Why are liberals so ugly?

Warren reminds me of our paper boy years ago.  The kid was first in his class but one of those “so smart he’s stupid’ people.  He couldn’t remember from one month to the next if he had collected for the next month or not.  Blevit, I  think Liberals are more dangerous.  Jihadist you can see coming, liberals you can’t see until they open their mouth and say something.  Heyitzme you are dead on.  I don’t see Warren running to assist companies who took a risk and failed.  Oh wait, Obama took care of that didn’t he?

Ahh The Gibson Guitar controversy..the newest rallying cry of the Repugs…sigh..they bought illegal wood ..get over it.

Again..a Repug who is tone deaf and missing the point….keep your head burried in the sand…stay ignorant.

Since when is 100k viral? Also, Buffett has already proved you can get a whole lot of people to pay attention with patently disingenuous comments so what’s the surprise?

I give up. Who is it?

There is nothing disingenuous about it. A 15% tax rate on ordinary dividends is absurd. I don’t give a shit whether the corporation paying it to you is your own investment company or not.

If 100,000 views is not viral,then hopefully this post will help make it viral.

Her point was clear.

Those evil rich bastards want to take away your roads, fire and police and leave you with nothing. I’m here to stop all that, or something.

She can go to hell, along with her caustic sociopolitical creed. You can join her.

No, we won’t “get over it.”

We’ll organize, vote and throw your corrupt politicians out of power instead.

How’s that sound?

You need to do something about your medication. It´s def not what she said nor in any way implied.

You know what else is absurd?

Obama’s deficits caused by his party’s spending. Which he OK’d.

Your outrage is misplaced, as usual.

Good luck with this socialist moron libs. She says all the things that that pussy Barack Hussein Obama ll is afraid to say because it proves, once and for all, what a bunch of class/race warfare mongers you depraved libs have become under the obama regime.

The true political party of NO is today’s democrat party. You’ve got nothing to offer your equally useless constituents, so you decided to try and take that which we ” real ” Americans ( Conservatives ) have worked our whole lives for and give it to yourselves to make you feel better about your miserable, depraved existence. 

How’s that working out for you losers?

and vote in your own corrupt politicians like the previous 8 years? That’s a real solution.

100K is viral when a left-winger is promoting left-wing propaganda

Actually, it is what she implied.

If you think it was something different, explain it to everyone. I’m not even sure you watched the video.

Scott Brown is going to get his political A$$ kicked by Warren in the next election!!

LOL

“Professor” Elizabeth Warren in Blue Collar South Boston The “Professor” is trying to win back the blue-collar Democrats from places such as South Boston.”Professor” Warren’s entry into the race will have national implications over how she will identify herself with middle income families in Massachusetts and the loss of property rights of those familles in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is made up of many communities in which many middle class families and their relatives came from South Boston. The Massachusetts Constitution affirms the dignity and equality of all individuals. It forbids the creation of second-class citizens. The state through its semi quasi state agency and the cities and towns along with the agenda of the current governor are creating a second class group of citizens with the poor siting of commercial wind turbines.The wind turbine fray is sparking class warfare. Time after time the blue collar section of town after town has been selected to lose their property rights for the good of all the others in town. We feel bewildered and betrayed by our own government, which is maliciously trying to steal our land through the poor siting of commercial wind turbines. We have lost our democratic rights and have become second class citizens, facing the theft of our land through regulation. Massachusetts State law forbids the creation of second-class citizensLet’s ask Harvard Law School “Professor” Elizabeth Warren is the WESRA, Wind Energy Siting Reform Act! Is it a reform act? Or a means to take away our residential property rights. Let’s ask Harvard Law School “Professor” Elizabeth Warren about the Falmouth wind turbine installation and those 50 families living in a nightmare! 

 When “Professor” Elizabeth Warren went to the Broadway MBTA station in South Boston she went there by limo ! The Blue Line on the MBTA goes from Harvard Square to the Broadway Station ! Why did she take a limo instead of the train ? I thought she lived in Cambridge? This brings up the question of where does she really live ? How do you identify with blue collar workers if you don’t get where the Blue Line goes ?

The Koch brothers own Scott Brown.

The Koch brothers own Scott Brown.

How much do you get paid to post these TeaBagger Cult talking points?

How much do you get paid to post these TeaBagger Cult talking points?

And those monies are paid, fer chrissakes. Nobody has a choice – we all pay.

If the money collected isn’t spent responsibly on what it’s actually for, which is the problem, then it isn’t the fault of the people who paid their money.

It’s the fault of the stewards of that public money. Politicians who siphon it to unions, to special interests and to their own pet projects and causes.

People like Mrs. Warren.

We don’t have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

Its amazing someone so “smart” can be so dumb.  

The roads we drive on (or move our goods) is paid for by all, but if I happen to work in a building that requires me to walk on a public sidewalk and by including lunch I walk on that sidewalk four times per day does that mean I should pay four times the taxes that someone else does?

Our current tax structure is based on income.  If I make more I pay more.  Congress has over time inserted enough loopholes that if I make enough I can stop making anything (as a salary) and pay less taxes on those (now non existent) earnings but unless I have a really big savings account I probably have an income of some sort, perhaps capital gains from selling stock.  If I sell stock I pay taxes on whatever profit there may be, this is a sort of double-tax since I’d already paid taxes on the money I’d earned and used to buy stock, now because my $1000 has turned in to $1300 I have to pay tax a second time.  That is fare, but the taxman shouldn’t be extorting 50%, that isn’t fare.

As much as you get paid by Team Obama to post here.

*DRINK

“Teabagger” used for no apparent reason

Um…Democrats held the Congress from Jan. 2007- Jan. 2011.

Obama has been President since 2008.

The last 5 full years have had Democrats in charge in one form or another.

Care to revise?

I agree, but with Warrens message and how she’s able to express it… she’s going to win in Mass. (Blue State)!!  =)

*DRINK

Koch Brothers mentioned

And the company owner bought the property or legally leased it.  He hired those workers and paid them a fair wage…

AND if he lives there, he also paid for roads, police and fire through taxes, wherever he lives.

And if he wasn’t there, you’d bitch about those poor folks who need jobs and why can’t they get any?

Give me a break.

Class warfare is a BS GOP talking point.

What they want is for their money to be spent responsibly,

Great idea. Most liberals agree with that. In fact she mentions it. We don’t want the waste of Solyndra 1/2 billion and didn’t want the billions funneled to Haliburton.

What they’re urging is a simpler tax code that lowers rates on everyone
and eliminates the zillions of deductions people can make to skirt the
system.

Great, most liberals support that as well.

as for the rest. What we need is real world solutions to real world problems examined and discussed in honest fact based terms rather than political slogans and BS.

Good intentions are fine, but the reality is that both parties have their problems with being corrupt. We won’t solve problems by pretending otherwise.

A voice of sanity in the wilderness.

Give her a break.

She’s a Democrat. She’s never been asked to make sense.

No no no , She wasn’t saying that AT ALL in any shape or form.
She was making the observation of fact, that a successful business is made successful in part by the society that enables and encourages it, by having roads and highways, a fire dept and police dept, and public schools to help provide better employees.

It does take courage and hard work to build a successful business , but nobody does it alone.

Heyitzme, because you seem to like facts, let’s look at a few. 

The clip of Warren does not include a statement that the rich do not pay taxes.  She is responding to opponents of tax increases who have recently claimed that the threat of taxes = class warfare.

Her comments are well taken because it counters bogus claims that increasing taxes for those who make over $250K is unfairly targeting a group that already pays out more money than everyone else. 

You state – correctly – that the rich pay more money in taxes than the poor.   But what you don’t point out is that the rich pay more money, because they have more money than the poor (the richest 20% possess 84% of the wealth in the U.S. (see “Wealth, Income, and Power” by UCal santa Cruz’s G. William Domhoff)).

So if Mr. Poor earned $1 and is taxed at 30% he pays about 33 cents in taxes.  There are 9 others in Mr. Poor’s status.  As a group, they earn $10, are taxed at 30%, and the country collects a total of $3.

There is only one Mr. Rich.  Warren Buffet points out that someone like Mr. Rich can obtain a lower tax rate than Mr. Poor.  So by employing tax shelters, Mr. Rich a (hypothetical) 10% interest rate.  He earns $100, and is taxed at 10% so the government collects $10 from Mr. Rich.  As an individual, yes, he pays out more cash than all ten Mr. Poors combined.  But as a percentage rate, he is not paying nearly as much as the majority.

Warren is correct.  The wealthy cannot obtain their wealth without the services provided by governments — both federal and state.  It is not class warfare for a tax code that attempts to correct a system that is gamed to favor a specific group — the wealthy.

This is the women who sees mao tse tung as one of her heroes, eight?

Class warfare is a BS GOP talking point.

Class warfare – the pitting by politicians of the well-to-do and the middle class against the not-so-well-to-do – is Obama’s “economic policy.”

And it’s been working great for everyone, hasn’t it?

Embrace it. Own it. Love it. Class warfare is yours, friend.

We don’t want the waste of Solyndra 1/2 billion and didn’t want the billions funneled to Haliburton.

Obama wanted the waste of 1/2 billion (and much more with other “green” enterprises). That’s why his White House gave them money and personally oversaw the loan structuring.

And you support Obama.

No such thing happened under Bush. Nice try.

Great, most liberals support that as well.

Then liberals are tea partiers. Who knew?

What we need is real world solutions to real world problems examined and
discussed in honest fact based terms rather than political slogans and
BS.

Slogans like YES WE CAN and HOPE AND CHANGE?

Good intentions are fine, but the reality is that both parties have
their problems with being corrupt. We won’t solve problems by pretending
otherwise.

Except when Democrats are in power and are corrupt, they don’t hold their own accountable. They scream about the evils of capitalism and Republicans instead.

It’s almost as if they don’t want to really do anything about the systemic corruption that infects their own party – the one in power.

You’re putting words in her mouth she never said. That’s your fallacy.

Yes, the wealthy already pay the lion’s share and also control far more of the wealth than they did 20 years ago. Warren strikes me as an intelligent ethical person. What she is advocating IMO, is abandoning BS political bumper sticker catch phrases and talking points, and addressing real problems in real world terms.
Did you hear her mention medicare? She recognized that something presented as a benefit to seniors was actually an expensive give away to drug companies. 

Do your “quotes” imply that she is not really a professor? And the Blue Line goes nowhere near Harvard Square OR Broadway Station my friend.  Not that I’d expect you to check your facts before you post your rants…  

Again, this isn’t news to anybody. Nobody but Warren is making the strawman argument that “businesses claim to succeed entirely on their own with no public services to help them.”

And the point she didn’t make was that those successful business are already paying the vast majority of the taxes that support these wonderful public utilities and services that she’s pretending aren’t being paid for.

If anyone isn’t paying, it’s the people on the low end of the income ladder who make the same use of those services that the businesses do. If anyone owes, it’s those people.

I love it when Dem’s accidentally tell how they really feel.

I love it when Dem’s accidentally tell how they really feel.

Beautifully stated.

Beautifully stated.

How do you strike it rich in American?  Become a union head.

One-day rehiring nets former Chicago labor leader a $158,000 city pension

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-pensions-gannon-20110922,0,913026.story

I laugh at the attempt to blame congressional Dems in 2007 and 2008 as if GWB didn’t have any say or responsibility then.
I’m not giving either party a pass. I’m saying the issue is grand scale corruption in BOTH parties and simply swapping corruption back and forth in Congress and the WH is no solution.

Why are you so stupid?

Warren’s TARP panel under scrutiny

Elizabeth Warren became a hero of the left for her unrelenting
pursuit of accountability and transparency with big banks and Wall
Street firms that took billions of dollars in federal bailout money in
2008.
But when it comes to how her own bailout watchdog committee
spent more than $10 million in taxpayer money, Warren has been a lot
less forthcoming.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/64099.html#ixzz1YgqPU8mL

Warren’s TARP panel under scrutiny

Elizabeth Warren became a hero of the left for her unrelenting
pursuit of accountability and transparency with big banks and Wall
Street firms that took billions of dollars in federal bailout money in
2008.
But when it comes to how her own bailout watchdog committee
spent more than $10 million in taxpayer money, Warren has been a lot
less forthcoming.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/64099.html#ixzz1YgqPU8mL

“Social contract” doesn’t resonate with the entire political spectrum because putting “social” before anything generally denotes a collectivist or socialist practice.  Hayek taught us this.

oh, here we go
STRAWMAN

 When politicians spout disingenuous talking points like class warfare and , don’t hurt the job creators, rather than looking seriously and the facts, they are not looking for real world solutions but political points. The idea that even raising the issue of  a 3% increase on those who can most afford it is class warfare is dishonest political crap.

Let them have a real discussion based on some facts rather than talking points.

Hold the phone, spending $64,000 on a portrait of Charlie Rangel isn’t responsible!?

Rush.

 
Everyone is provided the opportunity to succeed in this country. Public education, roads, etc as mentioned by Warren are provided to all rich and poor. To then say those individuals that worked harder, invested more capital should pay more to those who did not is in itself socialism, as it discounts the efforts of the capitalist. This country provides opportunity to succeed, it does not guarantee success.
 
On the 15% capital gains tax rate. The corporation that earns a profit pays a 35% tax rate on those profits. After this is paid the profits are distributed to the shareholders who then have to pay an add’l 15% in a capital gain scenario. How much do they want to disincentive the investor in this country? It is all talking point which no merit or substance. Obama and Warren are one in the same and they should lose in 2012.

Salary of retired US Presidents: $180K for life Salary for House/Senate: $174 K for life Salary of Speaker of the House: $223,5 K for life Salary for Majority/Minority leaders: $193,4K for life

What she is
advocating IMO, is abandoning BS political bumper sticker catch phrases
and talking points, and addressing real problems in real world terms

YES WE CAN

When politicians spout disingenuous talking points like class warfare
and , don’t hurt the job creators, rather than looking seriously and the
facts, they are not looking for real world solutions but political
points. The idea that even raising the issue of  a 3% increase on those
who can most afford it is class warfare is dishonest political crap.

Let them have a real discussion based on some facts rather than talking points.

You keep railing against “talking points,” and then proceed to spout Democrat talking points.

Just thought I’d remind you.

Actually that was Anita Dunn (think that was her name)…but they come from the same populist mind set.  They feel good about their ideas but they don’t translate into reality.  Utopian.

Elizabeth Warren Debt Crisis, Fair Taxation Talking Tour Video

http://tinyurl.com/Elizabeth-Warren-Debt-Crisis

Like the politicians who dragged us into trillion dollar unnecessary wars? 

But it seems you’re o.k. with Bush never paying or 2 Wars, a prescription drug plan and 10 years worth of tax cuts!! Have you had selective memory all your life??

People like you are more dangerous. 

Lol!! Have you ever seen Ann Coulter?? Lol!!

The poor ,who pay nothing get all these services for nothing, paid for by the rich and upper middle class taxes. The rich pay their fair share and supply jobs when the government doesn’t regulate them so much they leave. We have too many illegals, welfare mommas and politician who haven’t seen a penny they won’t legislate an agency to get to spend it. The poor in this country live better than most of rest of the world and many do nothIng to change their status. It isn’t as if there are no schools, libraries and social supports for them to prepare themselves for success in the workforce.

Anyone can get rich and I am sure that after accomplishing that will use all the loopholes and deductions allowed to keep their money. Warren Buffet takes advantage of these and brags about it.

Her argument is full of holes since the government does not give roads police and such to just the rich.

Sure, Yes We Can is a superficial campaign slogan , then we get down to real world solutions to real world problems such as, We spending too much and our debt is out of control. How do we address this crisis. Well how about seriously cutting spending and raising some revenue by asking those who can most afford it to kick in another 3%.
Then instead of an honest discussion, we got
job creators, class warfare, punishing them for success, etc etc.
What specifically has Warren suggested that seems like treating taxpayers like an ATM?

The funny thing is if it’s “class-warfare”… you’re on the wrong side!! Unless you’re worth millions, which I doubt, because if you were, you probably wouldn’t be here… you would probably be shopping at Tiffany’s at this very moment!!

Well i am glad it is not George W bush thats for sure

Defunding of roads, bridges, police dept, fire depts . already exsist. Solylandra was a bushy deal to begin with and how about the 16$ muffins all done under bushys. Get you head out of your a– and get some real info!!!

Who are more ignorant… Republicons or Tea Baggers??

We’ll organize, vote and throw your corrupt politicians out of power instead

Just as soon as y’all can drag your bloated asses out of your fetid recliners and turn off the TV, right?

Mrs. Warren is not a career politician.  This is her first campaign. 

No such thing happened under Bush. Nice try.

Speaking of holding out own accountable.

They scream about the evils of capitalism and Republicans instead.

isn’t that pretty much what you’re doing for the GOP?

I agree that because of our individual political bias we tend to overlook things onm our own team, but for the record, I’d be glad to see Pelosi , Reid , Rangel, gone. Reid won because the Tea Party didn’t find a rational candidate. IMO. The SCOTUS ruled that corporations could spend as much as they want to influence elections and nobody seemed to notice. Sure , the poor game the system. Do you really believe the rich don’t?
Believing partisan BS and stereotypes don’t serve us. The truth and understanding takes a lot more effort than that. 

You act like you could never get sick, have to file bankruptcy due to enormous medical bills, lose your house and be forced to live in your car, while on the verge of death because you can’t afford medical treatment!! Trust me, I hope it doesn’t happen to you, but it could… and if it did, I bet you would want to be treated with compassion by fellow members of society instead of someone saying you brought on yourself!!

What Democrat talking points have I posted?

Must be a good day.  You’ve thrown out more red herrings than usual today.

Thank you!  Those locations are serviced by the Red line.

Her viral video may resonate with liberals, but independents will really hate it.   That’s 1/3 of mass voters.

Ironically, Massachusetts is the home of the ‘big dig’ where billions were wasted, many cost overruns,and injuries from poor construction of the tunnels in Boston.

Not the place to tout how your tax money goes to building infrastructure when the Big Dig is like the Solyndra of wasteful government spending in Massachusetts.  

Her viral video may resonate with liberals, but independents will really hate it.   That’s 1/3 of mass voters.

Ironically, Massachusetts is the home of the ‘big dig’ where billions were wasted, many cost overruns,and injuries from poor construction of the tunnels in Boston.

Not the place to tout how your tax money goes to building infrastructure when the Big Dig is like the Solyndra of wasteful government spending in Massachusetts.  

Well how about seriously cutting spending and raising some revenue by
asking those who can most afford it to kick in another 3%.

You’re not asking them to kick in more of their money.

You’re trying to require them to.

There’s a difference.

It is class warfare, and you’re admitting it.

“Viral” the right word. Made me puke.

“Viral” the right word. Made me puke.

Nonsense.  We had balanced budgets before the Bush Tax Cuts and the Iraqi Stimulus Package.  We need to go back the the PROVEN rates and we need to stop building roads, bridges, and school in countries like Iraq and start building them in America. 

Let’s be clear about what Obama is proposing…a 4.6% increase for those making more than something like $200,000.  So if you make $500,000, you would pay about $15,000 more than you do now.  I hear people saying this is going to discourage people from making that kind of money….again Nonsense!  It didn’t in the 1990′s during the greatest economic period of my lifetime. 

The tax rate Obama is proposing was in place during the creation of literally 10 times the amount of jobs as the so called “job producing” rates put into place by Bush. 

Thanks for the responses by 3 evidently ugly liberals.

What an offensively blatant propaganda piece.

“‘Social contract’ is a phrase that should resonate across the the
political spectrum, as it takes the onus of constructive behavior on the
individual and away from the perceived ‘victimization’ angle that riles
the conservatives so much. ”

Translation to honesty/reality/truth:

‘Social contract’ is a phrase that works as fine propaganda to further a Marxist cause, as it fools people into ignoring the individual in favor of the drone collective and away from the failing propaganda of ‘victimizatin’ that conservatives accurately debunk on a regular basis.

Leftists, apparently including Colby, NEVER change their minds, only the words they use to sell their authoritarian statism.

Soak The Rich !!!

*drink*

No there not…..they only pay a small portion. Thanks to tax breaks, off shore accounts and other tax loop holes. We end up paying them. We gave GE a huge tax refund….we paid them. Get your facts straight, maybe if you turned off fox news you’d know what you are talking about.

Republicons !!!
Tea Baggers !!!

*drink*

TeaBagger Cult !!!

*drink*

Bush’s fault !!!

*drink*

The problem here is some people get so smart that they outsmart themselves. There is a lot of book smart people these days but no wisdom or common sense. A flat tax would take care of all this crap and anyone who doesnt get that doesn’t have common sense and for sure doesn’t have wisdom. With the flat tax(15%) if you make $1,000,000 you pay a $150,000. If you make $25,000 you pay $3,750! That’s a difference of $146,250! So here it is folks…wait for it…if you make more you you pay more and if you make less you pay less but everybody pays. Everybody pays the same percentage and everything is fair. Common sense and wisdom. I bet Thomas Paine would choke on his own vomit if he were able to see how ridiculous we are.

You bet I’m admitting it!! And the middle-class and poor in this country are losing!! And unless you make millions per year… so are YOU!!

One thing wrong with your premise.  Mr. Poor doesn’t pay federal income taxes. One question to all of you who think taking more money from the rich will solve all sorts of funding problems:  Will it help the unemployment rate to take more money from the rich?  The most pressing problem we have right now is unemployment.  Next is the poor economy.  How will taking more money from the rich solve either of those problems?  All it will do is make about 30% of the population feel good that they’re “sticking it to the man.”  Tax reform needs to take place, I agree 100%.  But, I also believe EVERYONE should pay federal income tax, including those making over $35,000 a year.  Even if the lower income folks pay only $25 a month, they will have a stake in this country; AND they may also pay more attention to the waste and greed coming out of Washington if it’s also THEIR money being wasted.

The poor are doomed to failure from the moment they are born. It’s like a game of monopoly. The rich start the game with $2500, the middle class with $250, and the poor with $0. Who do you think is going to win the game? The handouts you keep talking about are like free parking and the poor person gets to take the money from it each time he goes around the board, but we both know it is only enough to get them around the board one more time. Most of his money goes to the rich guy who owns everything and charges rent and is constantly adding more houses to his property. The middle class guy has a few properties and is able to stay in the game longer, but eventually the rich man will take him out of the game as well.

Disincentivize? So what, investors are going to pout, take their ball and go home? It’s a ludicrous argument. If anything, capital gains should be taxed at a HIGHER rate because of the lack of PERSONAL capital involved. Why is the blue-collar worker taxed at a higher rate for the INDISPUTABLE hard work they put in, whereas someone that inherited an enormous fortune, never worked a day in their life and hires a money-manager to move capital around pays LESS? How, exactly, is this equitable? I thought we valued hard work in this country. . .

wrong

If you don’t want to pay taxes but want to keep your money. Go and live in the middle east, take your business with you and stay there, they have 0% taxes. 

wrong

Keep speaking the truth Elizabeth!

This lady is crazy.  If I owned a factory, I would move it to a country where they don’t have social contracts.

warren for president!!

Mr. Poor now includes the middle class who do pay federal income taxes.  It’s not “taking money from the rich” - it’s contributing a fair share.  Corporations have trillions put aside – there’s more $ in corporate coffers now than at any time in history.  They’re not hiring because it’s not as profitable.  Corporations are making more money now than ever – why should they hire anyone and cut into profits?   We’re not ‘sticking it to the man’.  There’s nothing wrong with those making $35,000 a year paying taxes – they do now, but there is something wrong with Corporations and Mega-Wealthy individuals contributing a ridiculously low amount (many times nothing) compared to the amount of money they are pulling in.

Is that the best you could come up with? thanks for the insightful commentary.

Semantics – how about: “Contribute their fair share to society”?

How’d you like that election last November?

Pretty good for a bunch of fat, Bible-thumpin, gun-clingin, sister-bangin rednecks who know nothin about anything and are only located in a small backwoods swamp community in Mississippi, wasn’t it?

See you and President Downgrade next year at the polls.

Mrs. Warren, there IS a collective good we all realize from those services. It is the ability for all of us to purchase the goods produced by the successful industrialist at an affordable price. As an albeit extreme example, what would U.S. tax revenue look like if industry had to build their own roads and provide their own law and order? Infrastructure’s purpose is to facilitate the MARKET, which benefits both the consumer and the producer.

Elizabeth Warren is right and she is gonna kick Scott Brown’s ass.

Obama doubled-down on Bush’s spending and has surpassed it.

The deficits are not at record highs this year becuase of Bush, sweetie.

Watch out rightwingers. Finally, a voice has emerged that is going to catch on and we’re seeing the beginnings of a genuine populist movement that is going to throw the Tea Baggers and other rightwing knownothings out of power. Elizabeth Warren is giving voice to the frustration of millions of people who have been waiting for someone to articulate the truths that Obama has not been able to say because of the insurrectionary manipulations of the Murdoch/Koch Bros gang. Yes, the uber rich should pay more taxes; yes, the phony debt-ceiling and budget wars must come to an end; yes, we have the crummiest, most corrupt health care system in the western world; yes, we have to completely stop the warmongering; yes, we have to stop scapegoating immigrants and Muslims; yes, we have to understand that 150 years of burning fossil fuels has upset the ecological balance of our planet and we must reduce our reliance on oil and coal; yes, we must take money out of politics; yes, yes, yes, it’s time for a change and Ms. Warren may be the prime instigator of this change.  

This is supposed to be passionate? She’s being a typical Socialist attacking the successful, appeal to the typical Socialist envious intent. We’ve heard all this bullshit before. No where in her boring rant does she bother to mention that a.) everyone is equally protected and allowed equal access to the services she mentioned, and b.) she deliberately doesn’t mention that the factory owner RISKED capital, which is why he or she is entitled to his or her profits.

Yeah…

Exception that all polls show that Democrats are going to lose more seats in the House, the Democrats will loose control of the Senate, and Obama’s job approval is at an all time low.

But yeah, you’re “populist” movement. Wooo, watch out, guys!

Not only is the right wing ‘urging de-funding roads, police stations, fire departments and schools – it’s a cornerstone of their philosophy and has resulted in the dilapidated infrastructure and over-burdened school system.

The sole reason why the economy fell apart was de-regulation of the banking and finance industry.  What you suggest doing is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Unions aren’t perfect, but they’re not the problem.  Unions wouldn’t exist if Corporations had an inkling of some regard for the worker.  But, generally speaking, they never have.  Thank unions for your wages, salary, benefits and working conditions.

Simpler tax codes – I don’t think anyone is against that.

Power to the People?  I like it, brings out the hippy in you!

Here’s the inherant problem – if Corporations stepped up to the plate, there would be no need for socialization of individual problems and there would be more individual freedom.  Because we are by and large at the mercy of the Mega Corporation and they don’t contribute their fair share to society, government is forced to step in to help the poor, the needy, the sick, the elderly.  If the CEO’s would take a small portion of their billions in bonuses and profits and invest it back into both the infrastructure and the working people, we would not need Medicare, Food Stamps, Unemployment.

It’s NOT class warfare.  There are rich liberals.  Liberals believe in Capitalism.  Contrary to the belief of Conservatives, Liberals are not, never have been and are nowhere close to Socialism or Marxism.  Liberals like making money and they like everyone to make money.

wrong – not her point at all.

It is not “populist” it is Socialist.  Please move to Cuba. It sounds like you will fit right in.

Taxpayers AREN’T getting bent over a barrell – the tax rates are historically low.

Of Cuba.

Yes, Mrs. Warren did.

…so everyone can see just how friggin’ nuts you are.

What do you get when you mix a brain-dead liberal and a doofus?

Martha Coakley and Elizabeth Warren.

No, they don’t.  In the past decade almost 50% of major corporations in the U.S. paid no federal income taxes at one time or another.  The effective tax rates for Corporations in the U.S. are some of the lowest in the world.  The reason why we are struggling to compete with countries like China is that U.S. Corporations are not contributing to the infrastructure of the U.S.

No one said anything about not wanting to pay taxes. I think we all understand some taxes are necessary. However when the government keeps wasting trillions of dollars only to keep going back to the “rich” people to cover their losses it is a sham of a system. Eventually you run out of other people’s money. Then the game is over.

That was kinda funny.

“ You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did. ”

So the factory owner paid no taxes, and so had nothing to do with the roads, education, police, etc.?  

Of course he or she did.  In fact, they shoulder the lion’s share of that tax burden.  And the fact that Warren is suggesting otherwise means she is either incredibly stupid or a liar trying to whip up resentment of the rich by portraying them as freeloaders which, yes, IS class warfare.  And if Hall could take a few seconds from being on his knees gazing worshipfully up at Warren maybe he, too, could figure that out. 

I wonder what this stupid beeotch thinks of people like Chris Gardner who wanted a better life and most certainly did it all himself. Why are Democrats so abhorrent?

Wow, you’re stretching a bit far there, you champion fisher you.

You’re comment would only make sense if there was any ambiguity as to whom I was addressing, and there is not. 

Agree completely.  I’m going to paraphrase Michael Moore here.  Please no rotten tomato throwing.  If we wrote down what we believe as individuals we would agree on a lot more than we disagree on.
Guns?  Everyone has the right to own one or not to own one.
Deficit?  We all want the deficit lower or eliminated.
Government Waste?  Blech! We all hate it.
Jobs?  We all want to work.  We’re not lazy – you’re not lazy. 
Our Military?  We love them all.  Even the Athiest Americans pray for their safety!

We’re all Americans.  We all love this country.  None of wants to see this country go to hell, none of us are trying to make this country go to hell – George W. Bush and Barack Obama included.

Hey tony that risk was taken on a foundation of stability and social order they we all built. Courts to enforce contracts were paid for by us all asshole, roads and a stable power supply were paid by us all asshole. The roads and sewers wer paid by us all asshole. Some time you have to give back a few precent to keep the society moving.

Hey tony that risk was taken on a foundation of stability and social order they we all built. Courts to enforce contracts were paid for by us all asshole, roads and a stable power supply were paid by us all asshole. The roads and sewers wer paid by us all asshole. Some time you have to give back a few precent to keep the society moving.

And what private co. Built the big dig and had all cost over runs and deaths? …………Haliburton

Class warfare – the pitting by politicians of the well-to-do and the middle class against the not-so-well-to-do – is Obama’s “economic policy.”

Lumping in the middle class with the well-to-do is misleading.  With the shrinking middle class, more in the middle are sliding down the scale.  The growing gap is between the middle class and the rich, not between the middle class and the poor.

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

Exactly, they’re paid for and used by us all. Which is why there should be a FLAT TAX. You know, that fair tax which taxes everyone’s income at an equal rate? Because that’s what you want, equal protection and treatment, right?

Oh wait, no. You’re envious and want punitive punishment levied on the factory owner because you envy their property and their wealth.

Warren for Potus 2016!

Race to the bottom

Then you must hate Buffet and Soros since both of them take full advantage of that 15% tax bracket. As a matter of fact Soros just recently shut down his hedge fund because he was worried he was going to have to start to pay more in taxes. Typical lefty hypocrisy-do as we say, not as we do.

“The deficits are not at record highs this year becuase of Bush, sweetie.”
No, but because of the recession Bush left Obama to dig the US out of. 

Here’s something that bothers me about this. Isn’t the ‘social contract’ Fullfilled by providing jobs to the community where they build the factory? Why or why not?

Say we all paid equally to build the highway to the port. Buy some is sending 100 trucks a day over that road. Should they be asked to pay more?

I hope that was a joke.

Excellent Post!…

Yeah, put a friggin’ toll on the road, genius.

You want an even fairer tax system? Implement USE TAXES which is how our government was funded before warmongering Progressives took power.

It’s HILARIOUS!!!

The TeaBagger Death Cult is out in force spewing their talking points.

You Paid Blogger Clowns are so obvious, it really is funny at this point.

Warren is going to kicks Brown’s ass. Period.

The TeaBagger Death Cult is going down in flames in 2012! Good Riddance!!!

Right.

Deal.

So should Starbucks Coffee start handing out free coffee?  How about the Hollywood elitists and those big fat salaries…shouldn’t they work for free?  How about Oprah…time to give it all up.  What about football, basketball and baseball players…should they really be accepting those large $100 million plus salaries…get injured and still collect?  So should you work hard all your life and have to share it with your neighbor who collects welfare yet kicks back…has a big screen TV, iphone and all the other gadgets you can’t afford?  

and they received a net benefit from their taxes.  For their paying their taxes, they got a freakin’ road.  What did you get?  I bet it wasn’t an interstate highway system

Presidential candidate Rick Parry believes in intelligent design.  That’s kinda like believing in the Easter bunny.  That’s who you want for our president?

You also had sane spending (thank you, GOP Congress) that produced that one year operating deficit (the debt was still far in the red).

Oh, and a tech bubble that had nothing to do with the government.

You dont have surpluses or more revenues with a shrinking or stagnant economy. Welcome to econ 101.

You have more studying to do.

Let’s be clear about what Obama is proposing…a 4.6% increase for those making more than something like $200,000. So if you make $500,000, you would pay about $15,000 more than you do now.

That’s a lot of money that isn’t yours.

When a robber loots a mansion, he figures that the people in that mansion won’t even miss it.

Except that he forgets one thing – the money and property he loots does not belong to him

No but your name is.

TeaBagger Death Cult !!!
Twice !!!

*drink up*

You didn’t hear a word she said, did you. Moron. 

It’s also funny that Elizabeth Warren has no idea what the hell our social contract says. Nowhere in the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence, the social contract we’ve all agreed to live by, does it say that if you successful you need to “take a hunk and pay it forward”.

What our social contract DOES say it that government is a fucking beast that needs to be chained and that our natural rights are innate and inalienable.

“Paying it forward” is a choice, not an obligation. And if it’s at the barrel of the government gun, you’re not paying it forward at all — you’re being robbed.

risking capital is bravest thing someone can do……

It’s a good thing the brave Galtian factory owner was able to count on roads, police, and firefighters so he could just, doggone it, put that capital — that he borrowed and would declare bankruptcy on if the business failed and that was probably an SBA loan to begin with — out there.

I have a tear in my eye just considering the risk he took!  So brave

risking capital is bravest thing someone can do……

It’s a good thing the brave Galtian factory owner was able to count on roads, police, and firefighters so he could just, doggone it, put that capital — that he borrowed and would declare bankruptcy on if the business failed and that was probably an SBA loan to begin with — out there.

I have a tear in my eye just considering the risk he took!  So brave

Attacking? Is your head that far up your ass?

TeaBaggers !!!
Koch Bros. !!!

*drink*

Why on earth would you want to cripple middle and lower class people? What’s wrong with you?

The Republican Teaparty people have already cornered the market on looking “friggin” nuts.

Why are you so predjudiced?  Why do you generalize?  Both Conservatives and Liberals are ugly and stupid and beautiful and intelligent and most importantly, Americans – just like you.

So let me get this correct; if we post as Conservatives we are supposedly paid but if you post as a brain dead Liberal it is just because you are politically motivated? I wish I was getting paid to argue with idiots on here. That would be the best job EVER!!!! Actually it was George Soros that was paying bloggers to spew his talking points. You might want to sign up to supplement your welfare check.

He meant Komrade Warren for Potus 2016!

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

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Amen.  Tony’s calling for the people who benefit most by society to pay even less!  Those brave rich people haven’t had this good since the Gilded Age, but for Tony, that’s not far enough. He wants them to be able to go back to landed estates….damn it they risked capital!

no why? as a european and social democrats / greens supporter the only politicians in the US i could fully get behind are probably warren, kucinch, gore and sanders. obama, on the other hand, has some good intentions and ideas, and he’s a really likeable guy, but is way too centrist to really move america foreward.

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

I don’t know if you noticed, but the United States is both a free market and socialist country. We are pragmatists. You move if you want ideological purity. Oh, wait, there is no country run in that way. I wonder why?

I don’t know if you noticed, but the United States is both a free market and socialist country. We are pragmatists. You move if you want ideological purity. Oh, wait, there is no country run in that way. I wonder why?

you need to talk to someone besides jonah goldberg about what socialism is.  It is NOT the tax rates of 1999.

Haliburton !!!!!!

*drink*

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

hear hear

Now, that’s silly.  Obama continues to lead all GOP comers in polling and House Republicans have an approval rating of around 20%.

Peep it out, Galtian:  http://www.gallup.com/poll/148964/democrats-enjoy-slight-edge-2012-congressional-ballot.aspx

He? How do you know it’s a he? You sexist. I bet you think he’s white, too.

And if it’s so easy to take risk as you claim, then why don’t you go do it? Hey, then you can “pay it forward” and feel good about yourself. It’s your duty then to go out there and take that non-risk!

Oh… I know why you don’t do that. Because you’re full of shit and risking capital is exactly that — risky.

This is the nothing but communism.  This tells us all we need to know about these people who are currently running our country.  

What if a company paid for a road entirely to help their business run more smoothly? Not only does the road help the company but it also helps everyone else who can now use it. Should that business get a tax break? Should the other people who use the road have to pay the company per usage?

No it’s not.  You should look up the definition.  One has nothing to do with the other.

from the broad brush dept:

republicans are more ignorant than tea partiers, just to answer your question…  but i, too, can pull pejoratives out of my nether regions to inform you that democrats are more ignorant than either republicans and tea partiers…  combined…  times infinity…

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Wow, how do you like that kiddies??? Just by being born in America, you have an “underlying social contract” with every one else! That must be in the small print that only certain people can read just for voting democrat! Do you just feel more and more free everyday to be American?

Here I thought that all contracts had to be entered in upon by at least two consenting adults!? And that they were entered in upon mutual agreements, and on terms that both parties agreed upon! But, no not liberal “underlying” social contracts. Further, I thought that most contracts had to be signed by both parties??? But no, again! Finally, I thought that if one person breached a contract, that it made it null and void at the discretion of the damaged party??? But no, once again! In fact, in LIBERAL contracts you are continually bound to adhere to the ever changing purpose of the “contract” at the whim of the party holding the gun!

Just like 0bama’s bills, our never ending “social contracts” can never be read to find out just what’s in them, but you are automatically signed up! Wow. Freedom in America.

This woman is treasonous, as are all that push socialism in America.

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

When have they “gone back to the rich”?  1993?  Which, of course, resulted in 7 years of growth and created 30 million jobs.  When cutting the rich people taxes results in the lowest sustained period of job growth since the 1930′s, I think we can say it doesn’t work

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You mean how religious people are?  yeah, that would drive him crazy

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I’m going to paraphrase Michael Moore here.

You mean that guy who pretends he supports the little guy and unions, and then doesn’t hire union workers to help make his propaganda films?

Good to know where you turn for your “education” on economics.

The above reply is brought to you by the GOP and their corporate overlords

No, it doesn’t say ”government beast” in the Constitution. 

It does however say “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

See the promote the general Welfare part?

Yes we should all pay a 15% on everything we earn even if you make 25k a year and that would tale food off the table for your children it’s affair flat tax.
You don’t think the poor pay taxes? Have you looked at you light, phone or gas bill lately …..yes their are taxes being paid to pay for cops and courts and schools, that “job creaters” exploit to make their money and don’t want to help out when time get tough. You are a Douche Tony

Has she ever owned a business and been responsible for making payroll and paying insurances and taking risks??
Who is she kidding? I think I’m gong to donate to Scott Brown and I don’t even live in MA

Um, his comment was spot on.

yeah, social contract is not a political science term used bu folks like Hobbes and Locke since the Enlightenment.  it was invented by Marxists, whose idea of Marxism is to increase marginal tax rates to rate by rich people in 1998.

I’m guessing these alleged Marxists didn’t finish the book.

Still, it’s good to know the GOP can’t put away the ol’ faves, eh.  I grew up on Bircher nonsense about Marxists being everywhere and it just disappeared in the ’90′s.  It’s good that today’s Birchers are trying to bring it back, so they can sustain budget deficits they claim bother them so much

Here’s the inherant problem – if Corporations stepped up to the plate,
there would be no need for socialization of individual problems and
there would be more individual freedom.

Corporations – which are nothing more than groups of people making a good or providing a service – are treated as ATMs by collectivists and socialists like yourself, and if they don’t willingly accept that status, as villains by you.

Now tell us why they SHOULD help you do anything.

Be specific.

Show your work.

Broken record alert!

KOMRADE!

Bush inherited a recession as well, darling. It happens. It’s part of the job.

Obama said his plans would fix it. They haven’t. They’ve made it demonstrably worse.

lane has apparently never read a poll

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/64017.html

Independents love it, because they don’t listen to talk show hosts and neo-feudal industrialists

Dude, do you have anything else to contribute?

Planning on starting my own in business in about two years, Tony.  Seems risky, in that if it fails, I’ll need to ask the government to protect me from my creditors (it’s in the Constitution even!).

Once I do will pen hagiographic pieces of bullshit about my bravery?

I appreciate the effort you are putting forth, but you logic and facts don’t play well with libbies.  Give it up.

 I LOVE that liberals are having such a hard time hiding their disdain for America and are letting loose.  They are their own worst enemy.

What?  Ali, we are here to serve the wealthy. Tony just knows his place.

The rich pay for more of that social contract than you do already:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iP3lhS4ZQ-UhyUvFfUgdPCiu-jJA

Where the hell do you think all the money comes from to pay for everything you use every day? The poor?

You forgot KOCH SUCKER HALLIBURTON CHENEY in that comment.

Actually, the rich pay more in taxes than you do, and they pay for far more services that you utilize than you do as well:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iP3lhS4ZQ-UhyUvFfUgdPCiu-jJA

Facts: The enemy of Democrat economics

the above is brought to you by the dnc and their kool-aid drinking useful idiots…

Vote SCOTT BROWN
VOTE SCOTT BROWN
VOTE SCOTT BROWN

“warmongering progressives” says the Beckian supporter of all the Progressive’s wars and the Republican ones too.

World War 1 — Tony opposed it
WW2 –           Tony opposed it
Korea –           agin it (or like most right wing MacArthur fans, is it more likely he would have been made we did not expand it)
Vietnam           agin that too
Desert Storm    he was out in the streets chanting no blood for oil
Iraq War           See, I’m betting he was sitting with the Code Pink and Answer crowd

Or, is Ton’y war mongering bs like the rest of his Randian spiel, something he heard someone louder than him say? 
   

The factory owner paid taxes on those roads, for those police and for those fire departments, too.

More than you, in fact:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iP3lhS4ZQ-UhyUvFfUgdPCiu-jJA

Stop pretending they haven’t.

Warren is just another leftwing leech who can’t fathom how things actually get paid for and who pays for them.

So how does the word promote get bastardized into ensure? And how can ANY government possibly ensure the welfare of all its citizens? Clown.

Right. And they paid what they owed.

And then you try to alter the deal after the fact becuase your politicians don’t know how to spend money responsibly.

The factory owner is right to tell you and your marauding bands of looters to bugger off, becuase he paid what he owes. What your geniuses did with the money is your problem.

LOL.

You’re priceless.

Corporations pay more taxes than you do, fund more road construction than you do, pay more police and fire and teacher salaries than you do, etc. You take more than you pitch in.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iP3lhS4ZQ-UhyUvFfUgdPCiu-jJA

Deal with it.

Politico is reporting “Warren’s TARP Panel under scrutiny” and has declined to be interviewed for the story.

man, that thing was laughable when i read it on monday and remains so now.  Even conservative pundits dismissed it.

I’m gonna waste my time explaining to this to you in the hopes someone less ideological reads it and learns:  Government revenue as a percentage of GDP is at 14%, which is less than it has been in almost 50 years. The wealthiest Americans paid 34% of their earning sin Federal income taxes in 1993 and now pay 22.9%. 5% of the richest Americans make 70% of all earned income in this country and their tax burden has been dropping over the last decade. 

Where the hell do you think all the money comes from to pay for everything you use every day?

  I think it comes borrowed from China, because rich people and corporations control most of the government of the United Sates (we call it the Money Party, since it stretches from all Republicans to most Democrats) and they lobby for tax breaks and offsets and lowered rates and refuse to pay for the services they and the rest of the American public demand.

I know, I know, guy who allegedly worked for the government and was paid in government funds and now oppose closing a budget gap by raising taxes to that 1993 level, this is too hard for your ideology. 

Wow, a boy named Ali who is into fascism? What’s new? LOL.

Ali (Arabic: علي‎, ʿAlī) is a male Arabic name, derived from the Arabic root ʿ-L-Y which literally means “high”. It is a common name in Arabic countries and the rest of the Muslim world

tell it to Warren buffet’s secretary. 

it’s contributing a fair share. 

Tell us all what “a fair share” is, because you love saying that phrase, but never seem to define it.

Put up or shut up.

Set the “fair share” for everyone in the country.

Go.

So the 40+ to 50% of people who don’t pay taxes should not be permitted to use
the roads, be protected by the police and be educated in public schools? 

Wow what an insane argument.  Why not go back to the Founder’s tax rate … 0%  :).  I’m sure we all agree we should contribute … but why does it have to be via the government who proved over and over
and over again they are untrustworthy at managing the peoples resources. 

Remember we are in a country for and by the people. So why are we arguing about which politician’s tax rape .. I mean rate is best?  should we not be telling them? And then they go and do our biding with in the framework of the law? Are we not the dog — and they our tail?

No, they know how to spend it, they just didn’t realize that Republicans were opposed to collecting it.

As a member of the Party which racked up a 5 trillion in debt, you really can’t go around lecturing the rest of us on efficiency

Presidential candidate Rick Parry believes in intelligent design. 
That’s kinda like believing in the Easter bunny.  That’s who you want
for our president?

I don’t think I indicated who I’d like for President anywhere. I’m not a Perry fan.

Regardless of the stupid religious beliefs Perry holds, he’s an improvement over Obama.

It’s pretty clear that she is into “spread the wealth”, Ali? Coming from an elected official, I’d have to ask your exalted self: what else do you need to hear, cupcake?

Mayflower Compact: “…do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.”

This is what the Pilgrims had in mind. Not a handful of people using everybody else for their own personal gain, and thinking that is right.

If rich people aren’t the ones creating jobs, it is the “help’ of everyone else…then where are the jobs?

A corrupt Socialist? Well I never!!!!

The rich start the game with $2500, the middle class with $250, and the
poor with $0. Who do you think is going to win the game?

That’s called life.

Learn to deal with it. Not every well-off person in America was born rich.

It’s almost as if making something of yourself has a lot to do with decisions you make, choices you make and your own initiative, talent and ambition.

Oh, nevermind. It’s all about how much money your parents have.

A corporate shill, and timmyb.

The Mayflower Compact isn’t our social contract. Why not bring up the Magna Carta and other irrelevant documents while you’re at it?

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody.”

ms warren, how about there is no country on this planet who got rich on their own?…  your roads, education, police and fire departments would not exist without evil corporations to begin with…  do you think ben bernanke printed the funds for all of that?…

That’s call a preamble, shit for brains, and no court has ever said it’s legally binding. Again, you can’t find anywhere in the Constitution where it says that successful people are supposed to give poor people money because it’s a document that chains the fucking government beast.

And when they say welfare, they don’t mean welfare entitlement programs like you do. Get a job.

My taxes didn’t pay for the entire “freakin’ road” either, so I got a net benefit from my taxes as well.  As did you, and as did EVERYONE who paid taxes that went for that road.  And the factory owner got less of a net benefit because they paid more in taxes to begin with.

Government revenue as a percentage of GDP is at 14%, which is less than it has been in almost 50 years.

How about % spending against GDP? It’s a lot higher than that.

Some might call that a problem. Others might point out that that’s not an sustainable model, and that you have to reduce the spending to match the revenue (or at least get close to it).

You, of course, see this gap between the massive spending and tax inlays as a feature.

I think it comes borrowed from China, because rich people and
corporations control most of the government of the United Sates (we call
it the Money Party, since it stretches from all Republicans to most
Democrats) and they lobby for tax breaks and offsets and lowered rates
and refuse to pay for the services they and the rest of the American
public demand.

Yeah. Those evil corporations are all corporation-y and do corporation things being all corporation-like. The corporations. The corporations.

By the way, the corporations pay most of the society’s taxes you claim they don’t pay.

NDAN said: “This woman is treasonous, as are all that push socialism in America.”

And yet we already have several socialist systems incorporated into our Constitutional way of life including our military, which we all collectively contribute toward via taxes. Your non-socialist way would require us to buy our military needs from third party mercenaries. We use the same system of socialism to collectively fund our road and bridge systems. So you are a socialist, my friend, even if you do not know it.

And by freedom.

You know, that thing you despise for other people and that you want on the backs of other people?

Here I thought that people in America got wealthy just to serve you, timmy.

Confirmed: You didn’t read the link.

THAT is going “viral”? Or is that something you’re hoping goes viral? Which isn’t to say I don’t agree with Warren. Let’s just be honest about it.

Why should you people work at all if you can use government to steal what you need?

You’re pathetic thieves and I’ll never support your theft for our welfare or warfare system.

You dream of empowering the MOB to steal more FOR YOU.  How pathetic.

Nothing but common criminals.

Waiting for a Republican president before you start a business? Smart move.

Actually, I’m glad Warren is such a fan of social contract thinking, because one of the key bits of social contract thinking is that people who are not part of the social contract are entitled to nothing.  So foreign terrorists who we capture have no rights and no protections, we can do with them as we will, and illegal aliens who enter the country have no rights and no protections, we can do with them as we will, etc., etc., etc.

So waterboarding?  Military tribunals?  Mass summary deportations?  All okay under social contract theory.  Good to have you on board, Liz!

No, they know how to spend it, they just didn’t realize that Republicans were opposed to collecting it.

The GOP is ending the IRS?

No, liar.

The GOP is resisting taking MORE. They’re not opposed to taxation. They’re not opposed to “collecting taxes” (that’s a new one).

They’re opposed to increased taxation.

As a member of the Party which racked up a 5 trillion in debt, you
really can’t go around lecturing the rest of us on efficiency

As an Obama supporter, you can’t lecture anybody about economics. It’s clear that your administration understands nothing about them.

He’s intentionally dense and thinks that Obama is doing a bang-up job.

Lost cause.

LOL

With a flat tax? Do you even know what the hell you’re talking about?

Get a clue, then get back to me.

(1620) Document signed by 41 male passengers on the Mayflower before landing at Plymouth (Massachusetts). Concerned that some members might leave to form their own colonies, William Bradford and others drafted the compact to bind the group into a political body
and pledge members to abide by any laws that would be established. The
document adapted a church covenant to a civil situation and was the
basis of the colony’s government.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/mayflower-compact#ixzz1YhdAHZCc

Wow, is this another social contract that I’m obligated under? LOL. Wow. 41 male passengers of the Mayflower have us indentured under their compact to this day. Wow. Just wow.

They haven’t gotten jack shit from society. The natural right to use and risk your property as you see fit is INNATE. Yes, they don’t even have to ask busybodies like you what they can do with it.

I don’t think that this is about liberal values. I believe that this is about fairness. During a hearing which Warren attended, the Repbulicans demonized this women for her attempt in trying to make credit card statements simpler and get rid of the fine print where hidden fees are located and instead of getting 6 pages of legal jargen when a 2 pages should suffice. So the question is whether the republicans, who denied her a fair hearing and essentially said they would not confirm her, stand on the side of consumers or big banks. I don’t think that even most conservative voters would disagree with what she was trying to do. It wouldn’t surprise me that as much as I like Scott Brown, he just may lose his seat to Warren.

Dear Educate, the so called balanced budget before GW Bush was based on a ten year projection, with now 9/11, 2 wars. It was based on a projection of yearly GDP of 3-5%. At the time of the projection the year deficit was about 50-100 Billion.

Warren is a public sector/academic leech, she has never created any wealth in her life nor held a job in a for profit enterprise. She is a classic grasshopper, who feels all the ants should take care of her and her governing class of expert and cede all control because she is moral and just – in her mind only. 
Warren submits a false argument to claim that all the “rich factory owners” don’t want infrastructure or police protection, people who run and manage business understand better the value of an efficient and well functioning government.
Warren and liberals want a government police state with guaranteed outcomes directed by experts like themselves. They envision a massive overwhelming bureaucracy to insure all are dependent upon the state in some way. 
Warren is loath to admit that much government at all levels is inefficient, crony filled and run of-by-for public employee unions and not citizens and users.
Operating within her liberal cocoon Warren refuses to admit the tsunami of voter anger and disgust with her expert class, moralizing and bloated government. Change is coming and Warren will not like it.

Thank God that we can still vote, Val, because starting in 2012, there is a major correction that is way overdue! My friend.

Scott Brown is going to lose and lose big.

Warren is not correct, we all pay local taxes that pays for Fire, Police and roads. Government did not pay for it.

We had no vested interest in WWI. WE were the aggressors in that war because we were spying. Funny how that war coincides EXACTLY with the ratification of the 16th Amendment. Great timing, Progressives. How’d that League of Nations work out?

Hey, remember the time that Obama pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan and didn’t violate the Constitution by waging war against Libya?

Yeah, me neither.

Lumping in the middle class with the well-to-do is misleading.  With the
shrinking middle class, more in the middle are sliding down the scale. 
The growing gap is between the middle class and the rich, not between
the middle class and the poor.

On Obama’s watch. Well-done.

Obama is at war with the middle class, and he’s winning.

ALMOST HALF OF AMERICA DOESN’T PAY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.

SO THE IDEA THAT “WE ALL” PAY FOR ROADS, ETC., IS LUDICROUS.

LIKE IT OR NOT, THE RICH PAY FOR MOST OF IT. HER LOGIC DOESN’T STAND UP.

Polls show that he has the highest approval out of any Massachusetts politician.

I’m gonna guess you wouldn’t put money on your prediction, would you.

More proof that “D-cRAT socialism” is a mental disease that destroys the last few remaining brain cells of an extremist nut-job. [However, like certain other body parts, the brain of a lunatic-left socialist is extraordinarily tiny, so there wasn't very much for this extremist disease to destroy.] To make matters worse, “d-cRAT socialism” is a contagious infection (much like VD, crabs and genital herpes), so all those afflicted should be keep as far away from NORMAL, SANE, PATRIOTIC American citizens as possible. To minimize the damage to America, it would be best if all the lunatic-left were rounded up and put into the states that the d-cRAT socialists control and, hence, are already morally, ethically, socially, politically AND fiscally bankrupt, particularly the people’s republics of california, illinois, massachusetts and new york. To protect our country, these diseased people MUST HAVE NO CONTACT with anyone outside of these failed states.

Well, if “big banks” are so evil, why did Mr. 0bama think it was so important to bail them out, again?

“Warren is a professor at Harvard Law…” 
That alone should EXCLUDE this woman from holding any public office, either elected or appointed.

Look what the “Harvard & other Ivy League Crowd” has done to this country in a few short years.

Thank you sir, that just made my day. Dumbass liberals, the preamble is just the founders fucking around. It’s like when you open a speech with a joke, your not supposed to take that part seriously.

First, corporations are not “groups of people” Corporations are treated as individuals. Groups of people work for the corporations. Corporations aren’t required to provide a service, they are only required to show a profit. I’m not a socialist, I’m a business owner, a capitalist and I do like me some cash. I don’t think they are villians, they are what they are. They are required to make a profit, we the people and the government which we the people invented need to put in place specific controls to make sure that the people aren’t taken advantage of.

1 + 1 = 2

I think that is fine to get it back to Clinton rates but President Zero is talking like the rich are evil people and its us against them. except with the hollywood crowd and sports stars of course!  He is campaigning for votes with the poor of this country. 

 I would hate to see a country without rich people…oh yeah its called a third world country.

Well, this is just proof of what the Warren-types think of America. What the government gives, the government can take away. The government “allowed” you to create wealth, so the government can take it away. How the hell did we get here, people?

You forget that being prone to delusions is fundamental to liberalism.

And realclearpolitics. Heaven forbid I bring reality into the discussion. No, we’ll just stick to your delusions.

Try doing some research out of your comfort zone. Your rhetoric is a mirror of Fox News talking points.

A political theory derived from Karl Marx,
advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is
publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their
abilities and needs

Um sounds about right.  She’s basically saying that the gov’t essentially owns everything.

I WOULD

This is tough! Lets see one wants less spending and more savings! and one believes in morals and values and that this country has a lot of prosperity and we must wing off the entitlement culture before it gets out of hand!

I have to vote and say… you are the most ignorant!

Yes, dipnuts, the founders were really yukking it up when they wrote that silly Declaration of Independence, too! I mean, LOL, on that one! Our freedoms actually come from our benevolent government! Yuk, yuk, yuk. I’m sure they meant to declare our independence from good ol’ George III, just so we could have these genius democrat, liberal clowns do it so much better, huh???

Sane spending?  Military spending has tripled since 1997.  The military budget accounts for 54% of all general fund spending!  80% of our federal debt accounted for by the military.  We outspend the next 15 countries combined on military spending, 12 of which are our allies.. and are we save yet? 

10 years of decreased revenues due to the lowest tax rates on the rich ever.. couple that with 57% of corporations that earn a profit not paying income taxes, and they still haven’t produced jobs in the US… while they are producing jobs by the millions in China. 

Hey, I’d be more than willing to let the rich and mega corps keep all their tax breaks.. IF they produce jobs HERE.  But no, you keep making excuses for them to export jobs, and not hold them accountable.

They pay less in taxes than you and I, by ten to fifteen percent.

Obama is losing to Dr. Ron Paul, Mitt Romney, and Rick Perry in several polls and recent polls have him only leading Sarah Palin by 5%. And oh yeah, his approval rating is in the toilet!

We don’t vote for Congress as a whole, so single approval ratings of Congress don’t indicate anything other than the fact that everyone hates Congress. How shocking… If you look at actual races, you know — useful metrics, they indicate that Progressives and Blue Dogs are likely to loose seats and that Republicans will take control of the Senate as well.

Liberals are clueless to what a contract is, anyway. Look what 0bama did to GM shareholders.

I have taken Econ 101 and many other economics classes while I earned my economics degree.  I am unsure why the GOP congress, you thank, could not continue the budget surplus when they controlled the entire government after Bush become president?  Puzzling?

The “money isn’t yours” and “looting of the mansion” rhetoric is garbage.  Based on that premise how do we tax anyone at all – even a dime.  Fact is we must tax to maintain our society.  So this isn’t the false argument of tax or not tax, of absolute liberty vs. no liberty, it is nuanced.  It is tough to make these decisions…at the margin.  But it must be done. 

No one is talking about looting.  Income taxes have been a part of this country our entire lives.  Where was this looting nonsense when Bush Jr. or Reagan was president?  I think your argument is more about politics than economics.

The Wealthiest have always paid more and have always got a tremendous return on their investment by living in the greatest country in the history of the world. By living in a stable place where their businesses could thrive, by being provided the greatest workforce ever (which was mostly educated in public schools and universities), by being provided a tremendous transportation infrastructure to recieve their inputs and sell their outputs. 

Wealthy Americans live better than any people have since human beings have been on this planet and good for them.  The idea that paying an additional 5% of their income (a full 30% less than wealthy people paid 30 years ago) is akin to robbery is crazy talk.

By the Socialist Aristocracy pushing the erroneous Marxist belief that our natural rights are not innate and inalienable but that they’re decided by self-interested corrupt committees. Since a rejection of natural rights by definition creates oppressions and favors, the people who receive the favors — such as lazy poor people who are made comfortable in their poverty, inevitably a receptive audience is created.

The teabagger cult is the majority. get used to it.

Then go to InTrade and put your money where you mouth it.

The woman is a freak.
Obama is visiting San Diego  on Monday. We need the rain.

I was deluded into thinking that Scott Brown was a conservative. Shit happens sometimes. This election’s a lesser of two evils for me. But I’m still debating whether I should just write in the Easter Bunny.

Federal funds go to each group you mention.

Fire: go to the FEMA website and check out the Assistance to Firefighters Grant Program.

Police: from the DOJ website: “The Community Oriented Policing Services Office (COPS) offers grants to help law enforcement agencies to hire more community policing officers, to acquire new technologies and equipment, to hire civilians for administrative tasks, and to promote innovative approaches to solving crime.”

Roads: go to the US Dept of Transportation Federal Highway Administration website and look at just about any press release for a real life example.

Polls also show after only 1 week since saying she would run for Brown’s Senate seat, Warren already has the lead!!

And I’ll take that bet!!

Mediaite sucks… is upping the ante as the election draws near… there is no way that these kind of rhetoric could be allowed to float without a clear agenda… THIS IS THE USA not CHINA… you make it, you keep it.  

At InTrade, Obama winning re-election is the second highest percentage trade at 49%!! The first highest is the Republicons taking the Senate at 70%!!

The same reason Bush, McCain, the house and the senate did, because they give them lots and lots of money. Not really sure what that has to do with Elizabeth Warren. Carry on with the anger though, it helps to get it out.

Only if you want to back a LOSER!!

35% federal income tax+7.5% state-tax+sales tax+property tax > 50% of income…. or as the libturds would call it ” the evil rich are not paying their fair share”

Oh,yes.How dare the people who live in the streets ask for them to be repaired.

“Best job EVER”… you would be fired within days!!

i’ve never played that version of monopoly…  i know they’ve released special editions over the years, but i don’t recall the Evil Corporate Fat Cat Edition…  do you roll dice to see who gets to start with $2500?…  and btw, the free parking jackpot is not an official monopoly rule…  and i’ve played enough to know that a $2500 stake is not enough to guarantee victory…  

Wow…what a dangerous person.  She has no business in a classroom or in any place where policy is determined.  Breathless….

Wow, did Warren’s words just inspire that stock market today, or what? I mean, that the rich owe everything  to the government that the government wants to take, must make a rich man’s heart swoon. The “rich” must be so inspired to work that much harder! Now that’s shared sacrifice!

Stock in Obama getting re-elected has dropped like a rock since July. So much for the shabby Republican field :-P

“Look what the “Harvard & other Ivy League Crowd” has done to this
country in a few short years”.              You mean trying to clean up the
mess the America hating ones left for us all? Take a good look.Get out
of that Bubble.

Yeah, he fooled a lot of people, but he is still better than a commie!

No, that’s false. If you were on politico.com, your pants would be on fire.

“Mr. Rearden, the law which you are denouncing is based on the highest principle – the principle of the public good.”

“Who is the public? What does it hold as its good? There was a time when men believed that ‘the good’ was a concept to be defined by a code of moral values and that no man had the right to seek his good through the violation of the rights of another. If it is now believed that my fellow men may sacrifice me in any manner they please for the sake of whatever they deem to be their own good, if they believe that they may seize my property simply because they need it – well, so does any burglar. There is only this difference: the burglar does not ask me to sanction his act.”

– Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.

No, we mean look at what the Harvard and Ivy-League crowd has done to this country in a few short years.

The streets are fine. If the politicians can’t allocate money to pay for fixing potholes because they’re sending more and more money to unions each year, then it’s a failure of the government and not of the taxpayer.

Of course most of the Democrats and Obama are promoting class warfare. It is clearly documented how they constantly pit one group of Americans against another, by class, strictly for their own political gain and to detriment of the citizens. We are not one America to them. The gullible sheep that believe these politicians are fighting the good fight for the little guy need to have their eyes opened to all of the other class warfare rhetoric.
Warren seems completely unaware that she is engaging in class warfare while simultaneously arguing that is not class warfare. Of course, she is no stranger to being shameless. Warren is one more mark against Harvard and Ivy league schools in general.

I have a job. Idiot.

It’s not a preamble, it’s THE Preamble to the United States Constitution which is a brief introductory statement of the Constitution’s fundamental purposes and guiding principles. It states in general terms, and courts have referred to it as reliable evidence of, the Founding Fathers’ intentions regarding the Constitution’s meaning and what they hoped the Constitution would achieve. Idiot.

Courts have used the Preamble throughout the history of the United States. Once again, you’re wrong. Idiot.

Courts stated in Ellis v. City of Grand Rapids that “general welfare as evidence that the health of the people was in the minds of our forefathers.” Idiot.

The sixteenth amendment gives Congress the power to collect tax on income. Idiot.

By the way I make more than you and I pay my fair share of taxes. Corporations should do the same. Idiot.

No she’s not. On a scale of 1 to 100, this is how much she said that the gov’t owns everything: 0.

You can’t just make stuff up. When a person says one thing and you say that they say something completely different, well that makes any argument you have false and empty.

Really. They should be asking for free housing, plasma tv’s, cell phones, free internet, food stamps, free medical, free college, and what their country can do for them!

Here, at a town hall hosted by Maxine Waters, listen to an 0bama supporter ask what her country can do for her! How did we get here people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ljE-gvdTug

What Leedog said and I will also take that bet. You don’t know Massachusetts politics do you?

Let’s go with a sliding scale of 10% to 50%, the bottom rate for those making less than $28,000 and the top rate for those making $10 million or more. Those are arbitrary figures. To arrive at actual figures, you would need to figure out how many people make what amount and what the cost of government programs and expenses were.

But I’m open to ideas and in the end, I’m not the one setting the rates, neither are you – but what would you consider fair? Time for you to put up or shut up. Go.

That’s no way to speak about our nation’s first legal document. The point is that at some point we all have a collective responsibility to each other. Both by tradition and subsequent Constitutional authority. Thus, for example, during time of war, we submit to a selective service draft.

And your boy, 0bama didn’t veto all that money going to Bush and McCain? Tell us more, BrainFlake.

You forgot make trillions more than I do. As a percentage, when corporations make billions and pay no federal taxes then I would be paying more for roads, police, fire and teacher than they do. I pay taxes every year.

Deal with that.

I am afraid you are on the wrong side of history, my conservative friend. But I admire you for putting up a good fight. :-)

Why celebrate Thanks Giving at all?

Promote = further the progress. No one said ensure.

Beep beep ( I just squeezed your nose)

That felt like a tomato. I said no tomatoes.

Really? I don’t watch Fox, so I wouldn’t know.

Do you watch Fox?

Most people in the lower and middle classes do pay federal taxes.  

I don’t think anyone will argue fischef’s point that someone making $35,000 pays income tax that is either withheld during the year or paid on April 15th.  For those who make less, yes it is possible to avoid owing income tax, but this overlooks the fact that about 75% of all households pay more in federal payroll taxes (for Medicare & Social Security).

Only about 10% of all households pay no net federal taxes, so most of us do have a stake in this country, and want to make sure our money is not wasted.

I agree with you that higher taxes for the rich, by themselves, won’t solve the bad economy or unemployment.  But I don’t agree that making the rich and/or corporations pay more in taxes will result in fewer jobs being created. Higher taxes are only one step, but one that needs to be taken along with  improving education, infrastructure and international competitiveness to get the country out of its current morass.

First, corporations are not “groups of people”

False.

Corporations are groups of people making and selling a product or providing a service.

They are not machines, they are not faceless automatons, they are not zombies. When you say you want to tax corporations, you’re merely saying you want to tax the people in those corporations.

Although that makes you look like you’re going after people (you are), so you pretend a “corporation” is something other than a group of people.

Own it. Walls, ceilings and carpets in those offices don’t pay taxes. Only the people in them do. And when you “tax corporations,” you’re taxing people.

They are required to make a profit, we the people and the government
which we the people invented need to put in place specific controls to
make sure that the people aren’t taken advantage of.

Taxes aren’t meant to be “specific controls.” You just let the mask slip a bit.

Taxes are about more than revenue generation to you. They’re about controlling people.

Scratch the surface, find the socialist.

I’ve been reminded of Atlas Shrugged a lot lately. I’ll have to retrieve my copy from whoever borrowed it and read it again.

They are essentially perpetrating the bloodless (so far) coup to replace our way of governance with their own perverted version.
They have made the word “academic” a pejorative.

We have gotten here by the larger part of the public forgetting that “the price of freedom is vigilance.”

Well done, Warren.  She’ll have an office in the Senate Office Building.  I look forward to it. 

 A lot of Conservatives talking about the close to half of Americans who pay no federal income tax. Wouldn’t it help to know who these people are? Well, a decent amount of the people who pay no income tax do so because they HAVE NO INCOME. Millions of unemployed or not even looking for a job and millions more on Social Security ( i.e. money already taxed away from them they are entitled to now). So, how does that square with fairness? Republicans want people with no income to pay federal income taxes in the name of fairness? It’s laughable,

The other people who don’t pay federal income are those making $20,000 a year or lower and families (a lot of single mothers too) with dependent children. So in other words, those who are having the hardest time providing for themselves and their families. So it is class warfare to ask for slightly more from those who can most afford it, but it is good old fashioned American fairness to demand those least able to afford to pay…. Welcome to the unreality of the Republican party.

Spin it anyway you want, fishhead.

NorCalSister, fair enough…can you give me a few specific quotes where Obama is talking like the rich are evil people? 

I would hate to see America without rich people too…many wealthy people in the U.S. have done great things for their fellow Americans and the world and more than deserve to live as well as they do.

Nice try, Rob.  But your analysis is flawed, and deeply so.  Here are snippets from an article from the Associated Press:

“In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown
so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no
federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger
than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm
Deloitte Tax.”

“The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from
paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense,
public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the
top 10 percent of earners — households making an average of $366,400
in 2006 — paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the
federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a
profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax
credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the
government sends them a payment.”

Cry me a river, dude.  Your stats aren’t “reality”.  The reality is what’s quoted above.  Don’t give me this crap that the so-called wealthy need to pay yet even MORE of the federal burden.  73% isn’t good enough for you?  Lower-income earners can’t afford to pay a dime in federal taxes?!?!? 

Please…your argument is so absurd.

I love the smell of teabaggers brains melting over this!

Face it, you are just a bunch of useful idiots to the Koch crowd who wouldn’t even let you change the urinal mints at  their country club…

What she said works in reverse. If it weren’t for the people building the factories, and creating jobs, we wouldn’t have the taxes to pay for the roads, bridges, and schools.

Well no he didn’t veto it. It’s money and I don’t think you can veto money. Did he say no to it, of course not, that was kinda the point, just like the original post was a point about Elizabeth Warren and and a congressional hearing and not about Obama.

So how does “further the progress” equal giving handouts from the pockets of someone else? Someone has their progress stunted when someone takes indiscriminately from them. What are the limits of this continual “promoting”? What are the limits of such a ridiculous interpretation? Such an interpretation has no limits in what the government can take from anybody under this premise. Is there anything you clowns won’t try to pervert? Did the founders who fled from excessive taxes write the very words that ensured them to be repeated by another government? By your definition the government can tax for anything it chooses, endlessly. Is that what you think the founders wanted?

“No taxation without representation” is a slogan
originating during the 1750s and 1760s that summarized a primary
grievance of the British colonists in the Thirteen Colonies …

You actually have to bastardize the very definition to fit your needs:

promote [prəˈməʊt]vb (tr)
1. to further or encourage the progress or existence of
2. to raise to a higher rank, status, degree, etc.
3. (Social Science / Education) to advance (a pupil or student) to a higher course, class, etc.
4. to urge the adoption of; work for to promote reform
5. (Business / Marketing) to encourage the sale of (a product) by advertising or securing financial support
6. (Group Games / Chess & Draughts) Chess to exchange (a pawn) for any piece other than a king when the pawn reaches the 8th rank

The government’s role is to encourage the progress of one’s welfare, not endlessly and increasingly subsidize it. The goverment, and your bastardized clause is out of bounds when it proposes to ensure subsidies at the continually increasing expense of others, without any gainful return to those who are burdened with the task. The clown nose is on your face. You actually call others an idiot?

Yeah, she acts as though the factory owner and the employees of the factory don’t pay any taxes to support the infrastructure she’s bellyaching about.  What a maroon.

LOL. The streets are fine… Is that a vote against infrastructure investment?

And I’ll bet George Soros has invited you for a round of golf at his estate on multiple occasions.  Why are liberals so utterly stupid?

Yep, and her office mates will be a broom, mop and cleaning supplies.

We started the TEA Party to fight the Republicans caving in to the every whim of the democrats just to get along and get “something” done. To fight for reasonable and fair taxes. We needed (and still need) to move our party back to the right.
It sounds to me as if you liberal/progresssives/regressives need to start your own counter party. Maybe you can start The Robin Hood Party to take money from the successful to give to the lame, infirm and lazy.

Thank you sir. Everybody these are the people I was talking about. No wisdom or common sense. How does me talking about taxes have anything to with religion? You don’t know. Go read Thomas’ book. It will explain everything, even people like you.

What these clowns need to do is keep every penny from all their paychecks, and at the end of the year write a check for state, local, federal taxes, miscellaneous fees, user fees, impact fees and excise taxes on all their utilities, phones and gadgets. On, SSN, workers comp fees, medicare fees, and, they should get a bill for all the gasoline tax, and sales taxes on April 15, and see if they don’t think they pay enough taxes for this wonderful infrastructure offered by our benevolent government. They’d probably be pretty concerned right away about government spending and waste.

You are right it is not my money. 

You said that I am “pretending to have a right to it after these people have paid their taxes”.  That is incorrect. 

I merely support the top marginal tax rate to go back to the Clinton rate of 39.6% from the current rate of 35%.  So I don’t support having a “right” to these peoples money AFTER they have paid their taxes.  I support raising their current tax rate, by less than 5%, for the money they make over $200,000. 

I know people are drawn to the Randian tea party rhetoric you are so generous in supplying.  I am moved by it also.  I read The Fountain Head and the Atlas Shrugged.  We could all be a little more like Howard Roarck.  

But this is about the marginal analysis of our tax rates and how we pay our bills.  If 35% is not theft…why is 39.6%?  At what point have we crossed the line from taxing people to pay for the general welfare (a constituional requirement of government) to looting?  This is the kind of discussion we need to be having.  I feel that 39.6% is fair.  You do not.  I will agree to disagree.  This is certainly subjective.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

Its that last part, “the consent of the governed”, which binds us all to the collective responsibility outlined in the Constitution. Implicit in the decision to join a government is the responsibility to pay for that government. That is why taxes are levied, and why it is the duty of everyone who can, to pay. During the years following WW2, the top tax brackets were closer to 90%, not 35%. Even during Reagan’s first term, taxes were at 50% on the top bracket. Is your position that everyone involved in any of that, including Ike, Nixon, the gipper, are socialist thieves? In recent years the conservatives tried an experiment with lower taxes hoping that it would spur investment and jobs. That did not work. We must therefore close the deficit by raising taxes. That is not wealth redistribution, its math.

‘Woop Woop!’
   It’s monkey keyboard bashing time! Check out the Tea brained bigot insult factory at work. With no good argument against Elizabeth Warrens own clear and logical one’s we get personal childish insults and illogical comments (instead of a counter argument/rebuttal) such as;
Bricko 1 hour ago (thicko?!)
”Wow…what a dangerous person… ”  Ooh yes very scaaary!!
“Warren is a professor at Harvard Law… That alone should EXCLUDE this woman from holding any public office, either elected or appointed.” Yes. Very, very scary and DANGEROUS too!
   Although the sentiment is a bit unamerican as this is a country of opportunity for all (well it used to be pre ‘Voodoo Economics’ when the US built things and invested in the nation and had a far smaller wealth gap and higher taxes).
   Still some Christmas loving turkeys love to anal lingus the very wealthy who are taking it all and getting these losers to help them do it to themselves. This would be both amusing and just if it wasn’t true that they support people of hate and greed who WILL finish of Democracy and oppress and destroy the quality of life for the other 70% of Americans who they hate for not being just like their perfect ‘moral’ selves.
   Nothing beats coming here after a good days work and throwing bananas at the Ape House. ‘Woop woop!”

False. Corporations are recognized as people. People work for corporations. That’s common knowledge.

“In the United States, corporations were recognized as having rights to contract, and to have those contracts honored the same as contracts entered into by natural persons, in Dartmouth College v. Woodward, decided in 1819. In the 1886 case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394, the Supreme Court recognized that corporations were recognized as persons for purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.”

There is a corporate tax rate that applies to corporations. Some Corporations pay NO Federal Income Tax, while the people who work for the corporation – from the CEO to the division heads to the oil rig janitor all pay federal taxes – while the corporation may not. I ran my business as an S-Corp. I worked for my corporation even though I was president. The Corporation paid it’s taxes and I paid mine.

The specific controls I referred to are ‘REGULATIONS’ and have nothing to do with taxes. Government needs to REGULATE for the good of the common people.

Taxes are more than revenue generation to you. They’re about controlling people: scale of 1 to 100 = 0.

Look up socialism. Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs. I said nothing and believe in no case in which the state owns the means of production. I am a capitalist. I own my own business. I have no desire to have the state run my business. But I do agree that the building department should inspect my building, the health dept. should inspect the premises for safe food handling procedures, the FDA should inspect the meat I bring in – etc., etc.

Scratch the surface. Education is the key. The more you know….(cue the rainbow)

False. Corporations are recognized as people. People work for corporations. That’s common knowledge.

“In the United States, corporations were recognized as having rights to contract, and to have those contracts honored the same as contracts entered into by natural persons, in Dartmouth College v. Woodward, decided in 1819. In the 1886 case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394, the Supreme Court recognized that corporations were recognized as persons for purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.”

There is a corporate tax rate that applies to corporations. Some Corporations pay NO Federal Income Tax, while the people who work for the corporation – from the CEO to the division heads to the oil rig janitor all pay federal taxes – while the corporation may not. I ran my business as an S-Corp. I worked for my corporation even though I was president. The Corporation paid it’s taxes and I paid mine.

The specific controls I referred to are ‘REGULATIONS’ and have nothing to do with taxes. Government needs to REGULATE for the good of the common people.

Taxes are more than revenue generation to you. They’re about controlling people: scale of 1 to 100 = 0.

Look up socialism. Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs. I said nothing and believe in no case in which the state owns the means of production. I am a capitalist. I own my own business. I have no desire to have the state run my business. But I do agree that the building department should inspect my building, the health dept. should inspect the premises for safe food handling procedures, the FDA should inspect the meat I bring in – etc., etc.

Scratch the surface. Education is the key. The more you know….(cue the rainbow)

A lot more than that bacon is earmarked to those federal agencies, if you want to dig deeper I think you will find those grants have a shelf life.

Bechtel, Parsons & Brincherhoff, not Haliburton.

I have come to learn that, although I am fairly conservative, there are some profound differences in the way I look at things and the Tea Party People.

Take taxes, here is an illustration:

You have two Presidents A and B.  President A enters office and tax rates are at 45%.  He lowers taxes to 40%.  President B enters office and tax rates are at 35%.  He increases taxes to 40%. 

I look at this scenario and think to myself Presidents A and B agree that tax rates should be at 40%. 

The Tea Party people look at this and say President A is a great supporter of free market capitalism and President B is a tax raising socialists. 

“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.

None of this would have happened if the evil, vile rich man hadn’t decided to build his factory in the first place.

You know when I make a comment on here about an issue and only the issue I still get some crazy response from some liberal when I haven’t mentioned them or how stupid they are. I really try and be fair and state my opinion. I’m gonna drop my peace sign for a minute. Liberalism is responsible for the deaths of millions of people. How is liberalism responsible you say? Well at it’s worst it’s responsible for millions dead in Africa because they fought to ban DDT. Why? Because it thinned bird eggs. Of course that wasn’t true so malaria destroyed generations of Africans. You have to bathe in the stuff to be hurt. Abortion of course but we all know that. They waste billions of dollars too. Let’s get rid of paper bags because it’s killing the rain forest and causing of el niño and a bunch of other crap. So we switch to plastic and now that is bad because it doesn’t decompose. Really? I would have told you if you had asked. Now we are back to paper! Let’s build wind turbines and so we do but wait….we can’t run the power lines to where the electricity needs to go because some turtle is attracted to them and I guess Yama rays or something hurts them. Great. Can we use our natural resources? No hurts the environment. Now it’s costing us billions. My electric bill, gas bill, oil change and on and on, its endless. Liberals yell we are in the middle east terrorizing those poor people who wouldn’t do it otherwise for oil. Well we have to get it somewhere since we can’t use ours thanks to you. Oil is every drop of anything you see. It is needed for everything we have or will have so we have to get it. More deaths and billions of dollars right there. Our moral decline? Thanks liberalism. Of course aren’t that big a deal right? Check out the history books and see how that worked out for them. They are history. Liberals, you guys are the authors of confusion. Thanks

What do you consider a “fair share”? Most corporations and rich people pay more taxes than you’ll ever make in a lifetime.

Most of the poor, poor pitiful poor are poor because of the choices they have made in life. Same goes for the rich.

Holy “The people own the means of production” Batman!

Under such a description as Warren spells out of what credit is due the creators of wealth in an economy, absolutely nobody is entitled to their fruit of their own labor.  For anything, through means of 6 degrees of separation, can be related to a government’s spending in some fashion and if that is cause to deny responsibility to investors…

This isn’t an argument to deflect criticism over “class warfare” rhetoric.  She’s beyond that.  This is an argument that can stand in for “wealth confiscation” at 100% taxation rates.  The most fevered government enabling dreams from Obama’s father are becoming acceptable talking points to these people.

They do pay more.  They pay out of the kazoo in titles, licensing, tractor and trailer plate renewal, and you can times fuel tax per gallon and tolls by a 100.  They also pay higher fines in some states and have extra laws that don’t apply to the regular drivers that use those highways.  All to bring you the goods you need to survive on.

Atlas is certainly cool with whatever you decide, or not…

Do you really consider twenty three years to be short, because its been that long since Ronald Regan who was the last president not to go to Harvard or Yale.

Get used to it.  Most conservatives here focus on issues and argue within context of the presented articles.  Most progressives here are interested only in pushing narrative they pick up from elsewhere or from the gist of Mediaite’s editorial bent.

Even so, your post is very troll like.

They also support the communities they reside in via donating goods and services to schools, libraries, park systems, hospitals, etc.  yeah, they are the real bad guys.

Tell  the liberal elite the government is going to take 50% of their net worth and give it to a crack mother.  Watch how fast they all flee to Monaco.

Wasn’t Harvard founded in like the 1600s dude.

Oh yeah, in college I was in debate class and competitions. I debated liberals one after another and even my professor. I won everytime. They hated it and I used the same arguments I posted earlier. Those were only a few of the points I made. Liberals at their core are not intelligent. It was Albert Einstein or Mark Twain that said the true measure of intelligence is the ability to fit two opposing ideas in your mind at the same time. They can’t do it. All my classmates and my professor hated me because losing does suck. See when arguing with liberals all you have to do is use logic. It drives them crazy because they can’t fight it so they get mad and call you names and shun you because who wants to be subjected to losing all the time. So when debating a liberal state the facts using logic and then shut up and hand them some blood pressure medicine. You know how a green lizard turns brown when on a tree trunk or rock? Liberals turn red when standing next to common sense and logic.

Are you reminising about a by-gone era, elite? When and where is this idealized way of governance you reference.

So you agree federal funds do indeed go to local firefighters, police and roads…but you are upset that the agencies also do other things in addition to making those payments?

As for the limited shelf life –

Yes, FEMA’s Firefighter Grant for the year 2011 has a limited eligibility period.  So did the 2010 Firefighter Grant.  And the 2009 Firefighter Grant.  And the 2008 grant…etc.  If you want to see the grants dating back for the last ten years, it is posted online at http://www.fema.gov/firegrants/afggrants/awards.shtm.
.

COPS lists its programs to cops dating back to 1994 at http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/Default.asp?Item=44

As for the FHA its been around even longer than teh nation’s highways

I’m typing on an iPhone sir in a Dr.s office but thanks for putting that out there. Kinda hard to put it all together in this situation. Troll like how? I’m sorry master I’ll do better next time.

I said “promote = further the progress”. That’s correct.

You said “promote = ensure”. That’s incorrect.

You said “further the progress = giving handouts from the pockets someone else” I didn’t say anything remotely close to that, so that would be incorrect.

You’re saying taxes are indiscrimate? I don’t believe they are, so that would be incorrect.

I also didn’t say anything about “promoting”. Incorrect. Since that’s not my interpretation, I believe that you would be the one perverting.

Next up, the founders didn’t flee excessive taxes, if they were fleeing religious persecution, otherwise, they came here to discover and prosper. So you would be incorrect there.

Also, I never said government should tax anything it chooses and I didn’t say endlessly. I merely quoted the Constitution. Nor would I in a million years believe say anything anywhere near resembling that government should tax anything it chooses or endlessly, not would anyone in their right (or left) mind. Not only is it ludicrous, it’s ludicrous to suggest that someone believes that. If you want to question my beliefs, please make sure you know what those beliefs are and don’t just make up stuff that you think that I believe.

You are absolutely correct – “No Taxation without Representation!” However – we have representation. So we are being true to the founding fathers. The founding fathers did not say “Don’t Tax The Rich” or “Get rid of the British and we’ll get rid of the Taxes!”

And I didn’t bastardize (to corrupt or debase) the definition of promote. In fact my definition is the number one defition in your list: “to further or encourage the progress or existence of” and my definition was “further the progress”. How is that bastardizing in any remote or nearby universe?

Lastly, I agree with you completely: the best case scenario would be for NO ONE to be subsidized. I’m all for it! Get everyone off of welfare, food stamps, unemployment – YAY!!

What I’m saying is very simple. Fair Tax. Warren Buffett shouldn’t be paying less than his cleaning lady. Exxon shouldn’t be paying $0 in Federal Taxes. That is not fair taxation. Simple. Not complicated. Not communist, marxist or socialist.

Lastly, you called me a clown, I was returning the gesture.

The other guy called me a POS, and I didn’t feel comfortable calling him the same, so I used idiot instead. More to the point, less gross.

I don’t spin. I deal in truth and facts. If I’m incorrect, I admit it and I have. I said that George Bush said, “we’ve given up searching for bin Laden” and he did not in fact say this – Al Gore incorrectly paraphrased him and it was reported as a Bush quote. I was wrong. If you care to point out any inconsistencies in my argument, I would be glad to listen, just please don’t blurt out talking points and expect them to hold any weight.

It’s fishchef, Michelle. Proud to be a capitalist business owner, and an educated, professional American chef.

Give respect, get respect.

Exxon paid $0 in Federal Taxes, so I guess I would pay more than Exxon in Federal Taxes in a single year.

Yes, you are exactly right. Those damn lazy poor people who work 90 hours a week for pitiful pay. And kids like Paris Hilton work so hard for their money and it’s a well known fact that rich kids always make great choices.

The rich aren’t evil or SOB’s you said that, I’ve never heard a liberal say that.  They don’t proportionally pay more than I do – Exxon paid $0 in federal income taxes on record profits.  I pay more than that every single year.  How does that fit in your definition of fair?

And the difference between force and choice isn’t what I was saying.  Are you saying that taxes should be a choice?  Wow, what a system!  Where do I sign up? (darling!)

If, buy idealized, you mean historically proven, then yes. Ridding ourselves of the theoretical social and economic politics of the left is vital to our recovery and survival. Or do you want to keep on declining with the present course of politics?

hogwash… more progressive BS…   they could give two craps about anyone they just want to enslave a generation,  i like to call them the “entitlement generation,   so they will vote for you.  It is not about morals it is not about right or wrong it is about POWER that is what Obama is doing and so are the rest of his lackeys…….

Fun game.  Find Koch industries in this list of top donors to politicians from among all the many Big Labor organizations and other left leaning corporations that shovel gobs of money at Democrats.

Kinda like Where’s Waldo.

Fun game.  Find Koch industries in this list of top donors to politicians from among all the many Big Labor organizations and other left leaning corporations that shovel gobs of money at Democrats.

Kinda like Where’s Waldo.

From Ace of Spades

267 Is she f*cking insane?

I gotta ask.

Its the taxes *I* pay as a small business owner, and as a private
citizen, that funds the roads, the police, the army, and so on. I pay
for this now. Right f*cking now.

And you don’t think I built my goddamned business on my own? You
don’t think I am the only one who was willing to take a f*cking risk on
my vision? You think that society as a whole contributed to my business
growing and being successful?

So, in the deepest dark of the credit crunch, where was society with
the capital to back the asset purchases I needed to fulfill orders when
the banks wouldn’t? The banks that are partially publicly owned, too big
to fail, yet probably should?

What grew my business was the intense backbreaking labor I put into
my business. The complex financial arrangements, and the risks *I*
f*cking took. The danger to my families well being by literally risking
every f*cking thing we had in order to pursue this, while this idiot and
her fellow travelers were busy raping larger versions of businesses and
denying their rightful owners their assets handing everything over to
their buddies.

Lady, you have no business being in government. You have no business
teaching. You have no f*cking clue what it takes to start, grow, run a
business.

OMFG

Posted by: John Galt at September 22, 2011 12:12 PM (9NQ6I)

If feel you don´t want to be part of the social contract you have to become a citizen of another country or hide your ass in a cave or on island and be on yourself.  Aren´t cons usually big with gibberish about community, the American Nation and the Constitution (=social contract)?

What’s with the master bit?  I was pointing out a something true about your post.  It was troll-like in that its main emphasis was to blast ‘liberals’ (I use the term in quotes to differentiate from progressives, which most of them are now anyway) – even as you were complaining about people speaking off topic.

Not that many of your points are off… One chases after liberalism almost completely owing to logical fallacies, as with apple polishers, bandwagon threats or simply for perceived popularity.  Such and appeals to ridicule are core to the Alynskite playbook to which many posters here adhere.

BTW, your expose of the ugly consequences to liberal do-gooder policies didn’t nearly go far enough.  One might see in their efforts to cure the ills of African diseases and give food away for free – without imparting notions of them adopting a capitalistic, modern society – the roots of that continent’s endemic poverty. By artificially lowering the mortality rate and not tying such assistance to investments in industrial and agricultural mechanisms that they might provide for their own society’s needs, overpopulation resulted.  This ensured future humanitarian crises and emergency handouts which only sustained their burgeoning populations.  How many millions have died in misery and hunger due to these policies is untold – but whatever the count, it undoubtedly will be blamed on the wrong people – anybody but liberals.

It’s been class warfare on the middle class since the 80′s. They have shipped your jobs out and told you that service jobs would be just as good, and they weren’t. They lowered the taxes in the Bush years, telling you that it would increase jobs, and it didn’t. Bush bailed out the banks, telling you it would fix the economy, and it hasn’t. They keep telling you that lowering the taxes on the rich, the jobs creators, would create more jobs, but the actual results of lower tax rates on the wealthy hasn’t created more jobs here, but it sure has in China. They told you that getting rid of the unions would help create jobs, but unions now are only 9% of the workforce, and it hasn’t. In fact as union lost power your wages have been going down. But all of this has created more wealth for the top 10%, and in particular the 1%.

Those taxes still don’t add up to pay for roads and bridges, we all pay our share.

Me, me me it’s mine…all mine

I bet the taxes in Monaco are high, better if you tea baggers move to Somalia. A low tax libertarian paradise

If you believe in the Constitution then you are a liberal. It was liberal founding fathers that wrote it when the world thought democracy in a Republic would never work. The values of the Constitution are rooted in liberal values and were completely opposite of what people and rulers of Europe thought would be the only way people could possibly be ruled. They thought Monarchy, a king, would be the only way a country could be ruled because the commoners were not capable of ruling themselves. We were an experiment, and that experiment is being tested right now by the corportists and bankers, what FDR called the economic royalists, if it is going to have a future. If you have Republican values then you believe in states controlled by the corporations and wealthy, an oligarchy.

Those damn liberals, blathering on about lead in the gas, so what if it causes brain damage in children I want my car to run smooth. Why do they hate innovation and progress.

But that infrastructure is in place when that factory was built. The owners did not have to make that investment to open shop. We built it for them, we want the factory to be built, but now when we are in trouble asking for 4% more in taxes from the boss is too much for them and they will close down?

You don’t think going to law school is taking a risk, or pursuing a career rather than punching the time clock , is taking a risk?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren
“Elizabeth Warren is an American attorney, law professor, and United States Senate candidate. She served as Assistant to the President and Special Advisor to the Secretary of the Treasury for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She is also the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard Law School, where she has taught contract law, bankruptcy, and commercial law”

I’m thinking she knows a little about small business. In fact in the clip she praises people who have built something successful. She’s not attacking them. She’s attacking the GOP talking points.

Or not
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/164103-report-corporations-pay-low-effective-tax-rates

By the way, Keynes, called and suggested you abandon the 19th century.  I told him you were too busy and he said he’d call back

And I thought women were here to work for lower wages from you, so you could bank a little more

Why?  Republicans protect the rich and hate the middle class.  Since I am not the rich, Paul Ryan could give a crap about me

Not only did you become incoherent, you seem a little upset

name a business which gets “jack shit” from society.

Tony, you Randian genius, stay away from Rasmussen polls, because, well, you’re being led astray.

The Senate will be up for grabs, but you said House, and the Dems will take the House back in 2012.  You tea baggers are crazy if you imagine you are popular

Please for the love of this country and reason in general, stop believing every stereotype is real.

Do you seriously think corruption and entitlement only exists among the poor, and not among the wealthy. It isn’t all one or the other, honest. 

You have no f*cking clue that the business you run is possible because of the country we live in.

There’s a reason why businesses like yours aren’t really possible in, say, Afghanistan, or Sudan….because we have a sophisticated government that makes our way of life stable….and creates a climate where businesses feel comfortable investing. 

Yes, you built your business yourself….but there is a legal system to protect that business, infrastructure that helps your business and your clients, and schools that made it possible for you to be educated enough to start that business in the first place.

And guess what, asshole, it takes a government to run a country like ours.  And we ALL pay for that.

See get your head out of your rear and stop pretending that the only thing that matters is you you you.

No, you dumbass.. taxes are a confiscatory thing that is extracted from each of us that was EARNED from our hard work, all at the point of the barrel of the gov’t gun, only to be redistributed to the looters and moochers of this society, all the while being told it’s for the “greater good.” Greater good my ass! It’s my damn money, and the moocher class is NOT my favorite charity.

Do you actually believe that shit you just typed?

“Entitlement” is what you call it when conservatives think that they shouldn’t have to pay for anything.

“Entitlement” is when Red states take in more Federal dollars than they contribute back.

Government spending is only wasteful to them when someone else benefits.

Conservatives are the first ones to complain about schools, roads, etc….but they’re the last to want to pay for it. 

I know!  I sure do miss the days when my kids could drink water with mercury in it.   Those really were the days, eh?

I know!  I sure do miss the days when my kids could drink water with mercury in it.   Those really were the days, eh?

Yeah, you give me, as your gov’t paymaster, $100,000 to divvy up among two groups:

Group 1) 50 low-income, low-skilled workers; or
Group 2) 50 investors and/or small business-people

Who do I give it to? Group 2. Why? Group 1 will spend it on lottery tickets and beer, and Group 2 will invest it in some way to either make himself more money or his company more money. Group 1 is back at square 1 asking for more handouts; Group 2 is further down Prosperity Road, bringing other folks along.

It’s that easy.

I wish those pesky liberals would just let us have dirty air like they have in China….I love to walk around with a face mask on my way to work.

During all former wars that our nation has fought, taxes were raised to pay the bill. Yet, right now, after eight years of war, taxes are at a 60 year low. Does that make sense to you? During Reagan’s first three years, unemployment peaked at 9.5%. And the upper tax bracket was at 50%. What were we under Reagan, fellow travelers? Or under Ike at 90%, communists.

One major point this knucklehead left out is that if a corporation is shipping on the taxpayer funded roads, they are paying the lion’s share of those taxes in gas taxes and road taxes.  On the back of any truck you will see posted that they are paying road taxes.  This woman is a fruitcake and those people cheering and clapping are just a nutty as she is.  Sorry!  IMO, liberals are mentally retarded, in fact there is a book out about liberalism being a form of mental retardation by a Dr no less. 

When you were growing up, did you have chores to do?  Did you get an allowance based on whether you completed your chores?  Did your parents say to you, “now you have to share your allowance with your sister or brother” even if they did NOTHING to help you with your chores?  That is the Mindset of liberals!  If you did not experience the chore/allowance cause and effect, maybe that is what is wrong with your thinking.  So you can now thank your parents for not teaching you any better.  Far be it from liberals to take the blame themselves, it was their parents fault, or Bush’s fault!  They need to grow up.

One major point this knucklehead left out is that if a corporation is shipping on the taxpayer funded roads, they are paying the lion’s share of those taxes in gas taxes and road taxes.  On the back of any truck you will see posted that they are paying road taxes.  This woman is a fruitcake and those people cheering and clapping are just a nutty as she is.  Sorry!  IMO, liberals are mentally retarded, in fact there is a book out about liberalism being a form of mental retardation by a Dr no less. 

When you were growing up, did you have chores to do?  Did you get an allowance based on whether you completed your chores?  Did your parents say to you, “now you have to share your allowance with your sister or brother” even if they did NOTHING to help you with your chores?  That is the Mindset of liberals!  If you did not experience the chore/allowance cause and effect, maybe that is what is wrong with your thinking.  So you can now thank your parents for not teaching you any better.  Far be it from liberals to take the blame themselves, it was their parents fault, or Bush’s fault!  They need to grow up.

The thing this administration and Obama will not admit to, even if they know it, is that $200,000/$250,000 is not a lot of money in today’s economy.  It is just enough to keep people from losing their homes and cars, being able to put their children through college and to enjoy the fruits of their labor, instead of having only the bare needs that plague most of us.  Fully half of the American people are government dependent, which leaves their support to the rest of us.  I would wager many people have not had the money to take a vacation or trade up to a new car for a good while.  Many people are living off their reserve or at least drawing it down more than they would like.  Many people who were considered to be in the middle class are finding themselves too tight financially to be at that level now.

Hmmm…100k views through out the entire progressive community. The math (not class warfare…lol) dictates that every single one of those 100k progressives would have to move to Mass. and then actually vote for this lady from academia in order for her to receive one tenth of one percent of her needed votes. Not a happy prospect for the Harvard teacher even if it were to happen and we ALL know that it won’t.

I’ve read some of your posts and admire your attempt to try and understand what is going on in the country right now.  The tax increase that you agree with would fund the country for approximately 36 hours with our current debt. (approximately)

Without reducing our debt you could take all the money and assets from everyone who makes more than a million dollars and that would fund the Government for a week. (approximately)

The class warfare that the Liberals have now initiated is just a campaign ploy because they can’t run on Obama’s record on the economy.

We waste 125 billion dollars a year in unnecessary duplicate government programs alone and that’s just the tip of the wasteful iceberg. (CBO report March 2011).

What is needed is for the Government to be forced to properly use the funds that they already receive from the Taxpayers.  Anything else is just posturing.  When the country learns that the government is serious about better management of it’s resources then the country will begin to recover and with that would come lower unemployment figures and an increase in tax revenues.

Don’t be swayed by the political rhetoric that is being spread throughout the Nation. It’s not helping the Nation. 

Obama’s recent push for another stimulus is not the solution, it sounds good but rebuilding the infrastructure was the reason for the last stimulus program.  Read up on it and you will see that this latest campaign speech is the same as the last campaign speech almost word for word.

Obama jokingly said “we found out that there were no shovel ready jobs” (paraphrased) and then he and his advisers laughed.

Now the left will begin their attacks on me in 3…2…1

“TMP”

I admire the hard work and courage it takes to pursue a vision and a business,but it’s not all one way. We, the citizens of this country, are in this together, whether we have the courage to try and start a business, or punch a time clock. A business depends on employees and customers, who are also part of
society and pay taxes to finance the police, fire dept, and army.  We need to encourage people to pursue their vision and become entrepreneurs who in turn hire others and offer a service, but we still need to decide what’s fair as far as a tax code is concerned , and we need to lose the language that language that describes any discussion of tax rates and the tax code as unfair , or punishment, or theft, or class warfare. That, IMO , is the point Warren is making, striking at the language used by the GOP more than the operators of small businesses.

When the debt in WI was being considered it seemed perfectly reasonable to leverage teachers making far less than 200K to give up some of what they were earning as part of shared sacrifice and to be “fair” to the state and it’s citizens. Yet somehow suggesting those making over 200K pay tax rates they were paying a few years ago, is class warfare.  Funny huh?

I got your back, brother!

The daggers are coming. They can’t stand the truth.

“TMP”

Typical wishy washy COSMO.  If we simply sit around fire and sing Kum Bay Yah, we’ll all find Nirvana together…Be compassionate and listen each other and “compromise.”  (While a Stalin Look alike, stabs us in the back, again!)

I don’t want “Nirvana,” because that is the kind of spoon fed nonsense the “useful idiots” of every Socialist uprising in the past 150 years…  I want want Socialism crushed and ground to dust, like we should have done once and for all, 30 years ago!

NICE WORK “Butter Bars,” (Infantry LT) or are you wearing silver bars?

Purveyor

Declining? By what measure?

The last time I had contact with you, your dialogue was civil and reasoned, not vulgar and shrill?

Also, in your Post above, you leave out an essential part of the equation, so to speak…  Doesn’t the Lieutenant have a stake or interest in the infrastructure that helped him prosper?

Purveyor

Sweet Jesus!  That is a wretched ‘nom de plume’!   I assume you are proud of yourself, typical of callow youth?

Purveyor

Sweet Jesus!  That is a wretched ‘nom de plume’!   I assume you are proud of yourself, typical of callow youth?

Purveyor

Yeah, that whole reason thing and respect for the facts,and rational communication is pretty wishy washy. Listening to others, and trying to understand their POV, rather than assuming you already know, and labeling them with ignorant stereotypes. That’ll never work.

Assuming that maybe people I don’t agree with may have something relevant to share,and I might learn something….   idealistic  nonsense.

and yet somehow, I’m not the least but embarrassed. 

It is my name and I live in Hanoi, what’s wrong with that

Hey, I realize I was a little shrill…and probably should have chosen my words better…but I don’t believe that Elizabeth Warren’s comments merited the tirade that Infantry was spewing, and quite frankly I was angry at the commenter’s entitled attitude.

Yes, the business owner has a stake in the infrastructure too….as does everyone else.    A business also needs educated, skilled workers.  Those don’t happen by accident.   Those businesses also need people who can afford to be their customers.  

You can’t undermine the business owners…..but our country is also not served by widening inequality that leaves so many behind. 

Who is the liar? Republicans resist taking more? Bullshit. The President just asked for tax cut extensions and tax breaks for people who hire new employees and Republicans are resisting these tax cuts and breaks.

They are not opposed to increased taxation; they are opposed to increased taxation on rich people.

Well done.  Truthfully, I am glad you have the capacity for honest, self examination.

Honestly, I’ve found myself in very serious moments of self examination from time to time, also…

“The road of excess, leads to the palace of wisdom.”  William Blake

Purveyor

No matter what, your “pseudonym,” is a play on words.  Meaning, such is meant to remind the the reader of an American quisling and undoubtedly, a hero of yours… Jane Fonda!

There are “Hanoi Jane urinal stickers” in VFW hall, perhaps you could send along a few “Hanoi Steve urinal stickers” for the American Legion Hall?  Maybe our entertainment is juvenile, but we enjoy ourselves.

Purveyor of Rhetoric

Why the reference to John Galt?  (who is John Galt) Is there a hidden message that I am missing?

I preferred the “The Fountain Head,” as Howard Roarke could handle, and seemed to enjoy, hard work?

Purveyor

I may have mentioned this before, but, I conclude, America is locked in an internal struggle over philosophy, more so than economics, etc.

Are we still the children of Jefferson, Madison and Washington, or, are we to become the spawn of Marx and Lenin?  Until this fundamental question is asked and answered, everything else, ancillary.

Nice to see you.

Purveyor

Why are you still scared on the Vietnamese? We are friends now, they forgave you for killing millions of their citizens, let it go!

Oh Jane was great in  Barbarella……

CHECK MATE!

Purveyor

You certainly didn’t miss the irony in which Hamoisteve showed – even as he makes mention that the Vietnamese themselves don’t harbor such resentments – to what lengths he’ll go in order to evoke a favored image of his of America in the role as aggressor and murderer of innocents

Ex pat American ‘Liberals.’  More demeaning to their own country’s image than our former communist adversaries.

Baloney

The 1% and 10% pay 80% of the all taxes. Don’t you want to aspire to be wealthy?

Not only that but private business made the cement for the roads and trucks to drive over those roads, all without gubmint help. Who pays her $100,000 yearly salary and her pension. How many taxpayer funded pension programs does she have?

Private business made the cement for the roads and trucks to drive over
those roads, all without gubmint help. Who pays her $100,000 yearly
salary and her pension. How many taxpayer funded pension programs does
she have?

MS, your nick is wrong it should be undereducated or underachieveing

Hey, Howsabout $16.00 mufins at the Justice (not) department?

You are full of SHi* I built my business from scratch with no help from anyone, the State, City, TSa and FMC cost me 50% of my staff”s time complying with their stupid rules, Oh how about 10% employment taxes? as well as my personal income taxes? why do I have to work three days for the Government and tow for my family?

You are full of SHi* I built my business from scratch with no help from anyone, the State, City, TSa and FMC cost me 50% of my staff”s time complying with their stupid rules, Oh how about 10% employment taxes? as well as my personal income taxes? why do I have to work three days for the Government and tow for my family?

How about we have a flat 20% sales tax and no income tax, the rich will pay more cos they spend more and the poor will have skin in the game, foodstamps can make up the difference, also reform unions and their lopsided donations and let the Government pay for election campaigns, limit each candidate to 1 million dollars ans no other contributions

Isnt she the woman passed over for the position heading up the consumer agency because she was too toxic? How many pensions does she now have from the Government and Harvard and she wants to crown it with millions of dollars from going to the Senate ? Give me a break!

You were doing nicely until your conclusion?

Admittedly, our Nation started to bend the rules and go awry, immediately after Constitutional ratification.  Regardless, the Founders created and gave to their progeny, a Governmental treatise that contained the mechanism for self repair:  Constitutional amendment as well as a Judiciary, etc., for lesser Governmental dilemmas.

Quite frankly, I literally shudder to think what America’s Constitution would look like, if contemporary “liberals” were given free reign to start anew.  (not meant as personal attack) 

In a practical sense, I agree with you that corporate and business interests have demonstrated for way to long, overt self interest, at most, greed, illegitimate greed!  I have a thesis I call “economic treason” which labels people or groups as virtual traitors to their Nation, who do not ‘consider’ their countries well being in their decision making process.  This is not to be confused with codified law, however, selling out your own country for personal gain, I assert, is treasonous.  (Patriotism and nationalism, taught in school might help considerably?)

Anyway, I enjoyed your comment, particularly your observation that “the American experiment,” is ongoing, and philosophically speaking, should continue on as such…

Purveyor

I believe you might like to hear more about my thesis on “economic treason?”  

There are problems in America that can be solved, merely, by looking to the Constitution, along with strengthening laws, and punishment for those who endanger our Nation and economy for self gratification.  The philosophy that is our Nation’s lodestone, is architecturally solid!

However, I think it was Franklin who said: “A man will work twice as hard to steal what he could easily acquire by honest labor.”

Purveyor

Wouldn’t it be interesting IF, Mediaite held a convention, say at Vegas or Miami Beach?  The invitees would be people such as you and I, that Post with regularity and actually have a cogent point of view?

Of course, they would need to have separate Hotels, Security and metal detectors?  LOL

Still,  respectfully, I have encountered a few people that I would enjoy interacting with and getting to know, face to face.  You being one them…  I am sure we could cover much ground and would enjoy the interaction between ourselves and others.

There are some weirdos in here, but, some very interesting people, also!

Purveyor

A tax like that will hurt low income working families far more than the rich. There’s nothing wrong with a a progressive tax system if we can eliminate the thousands of pages of loop holes.  I completely agree about huge reforms in campaign finance, but I’d not that “the Government” is not them, a separate entity from us the citizens. The government is an extension of we the people, and if we don’t pay attention to what they’re doing it’s our own fault.

In what way was she toxic? Please be specific and provide a link for reference. Does she get a pension from her time as TARP oversight? I don’t know, and I’m guessing you don’t either. She appears to be an extremely intelligent lady who actually gives a dam about working class people and families. We don’t need that in the Senate.
I’ve never heard her say anything that is anti business. She does want banks to be simple,clear and fair when setting up loans and accounts so the consumer knows what they are getting.
Maybe you could learn something about her rather than dissing her without knowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren
”
In an interview at Newsweek, December 7, 2009, titled “Reining in, and Reigning Over, Wall Street” Elizabeth Warren was asked: “Congress is trying to reform financial regulation, and it can get a little abstract. Where should people focus?”

She responded:

“
To restore some basic sanity
to the financial system, we need two central changes: fix broken
consumer-credit markets and end guarantees for the big players that
threaten our entire economic system. If we get those two key parts
right, we can still dial the rest of the regulation up and down as
needed. But if we don’t get those two right, I think the game is over. I
hate to sound alarmist, but that’s how I feel about this.On July 29, 2011, she left her role with the agency to return to
academic life at Harvard Law School. Her departing address indicated how
she first became involved:

“
Four years ago, I submitted
an article to Democracy Journal that argued for a new government agency
called the Financial Product Safety Commission. I threw myself into that
piece because I felt strongly that a new consumer agency would make the
credit markets work better for American families and strengthen the
economic security of the middle class.” Warren wrote, “I leave this
agency, but not this fight . . . the issues we deal with — a middle
class that has been squeezed and business models built on tricks and
traps — are deeply personal to me, and they always will be

You have the capacity to sense, and/or see subtlety and nuance, where others do not. Anyway, thank you for your comment.

HANOI, thought he was being clever and then attempted to belittle my derogation of his understanding, or, lack thereof, about the abscess, that became the Vietnam War.

If, HANOI, truly knew his history, philosophy and politics, he would not have found wit or humor in Jane Fonda’s venture, or, his own puerile admiration of her.

Purveyor

This is not about the Vietnamese or Vietnam, rather, is about you and your threat to MY homeland.

Purveyor

You can’t be this stupid! You are referring to the Clinton Presidency – the markets were a in a lot better shape then and we had millions of jobs that he started to offshore even then; a trend which continues today, but at a much faster rate.

The country has got to balance the budget by cutting – not by spending and taxing. That solution of tax increases and spending to stimulate the economy has had ruinous results every time it has been tried. It flat out does not work.

Your Bush bashing aside, this President has made a bad situation worse and millions of people are out of work because of it. Amateur hour is over and so it goes with his hope of reelection. Obama’s meddling in the affairs of private industry and in the lives of the citizens has caused this jobs issue to grow like a cancer and it is bringing him down. He has done so much damage in fact that there are serious doubts that there will be a recovery. All that stimulus money and quantitative easing funding went down the rabbit hole and didn’t slow the rest of us going in that direction.

Perhaps you need to EdUCATE yourself to that reality.

Your rhetoric is a mirror of what your Media Matters handler tells you to say.

I see that I wasted my time posting reality to this moron.

Good luck with him and his Clinton crap. Even Clinton is saying that Obama is not on the right track for a recovery.

He’s just like all the other liberals, squawking talking points.

LMAO

“TMP”

You said, “The wealthy cannot obtain their wealth without the services provided by governments — both federal and state.”, but I can’t believe you said it.

What services do the federal and state governments provide to the wealthy? The service of taking money from them to fund ridiculous pork? Maybe it’s the service of hauling them into Congress for hearings?

There is no service provided by the government that supplies the wealthy with anything that allows them to obtain wealth. That is patently ridiculous.

The tax code is written by whom? That’s right – CONGRESS. They set up all the mechanisms that you liberals poke at as loopholes and tax shelters. The part that you miss is this is all 100% legal, and if it was you that had the money you would be doing exactly the same thing.

Her rant is just that.  She’s attacking the people who create jobs in this country and to suggest that Factory owners don’t pay for Highways, Police, Fire Fighters and educating the children is ludicrous.

She’s ramping up the class warfare crap that Obama has sent her out to do. She’s a self admitted Communist worshiper and ignorant of the facts.

It’s not going to fool the people, they are seeing it for what it is, Liberal class warfare rhetoric.

“TMP”

I believe you are right on with that – they only know how to parrot what the boss at Media Matters tells them to say.

No argument here.  I agree 100%.  Loopholes and tax shelters are set up by Congress, are legal and it is smart business to take advantage of these things.  No problem.

However we do need to adjust the system, close loopholes, increase the rate for the richest one percent by 5 or 6% as well as cut expenses.

Tony is silent and that silence tells all you need to know. Future Senator Warren is right. WE are in this together and our shared prosperity is one that benefits the richest Koch brother to the poorest migrant worker.

And, once again, we have a thread which proves the actual ideology of the Conservative movement is “screw you, we got ours”. What a lame excuse for a philosophy

@Hanoisteve:disqus  ”We built it for them, we want the factory to be built, but now when we are in trouble asking for 4% more in taxes from the boss is too much for them and they will close down?”Why don’t you tell that to Soros who shut down his hedge fund because he didn’t want to pay taxes? Or GE(talk about being a corporate shill)? Why doesn’t Media Matters pay taxes if it’s so damn patriotic? Why does Warren Buffet owe 1 billion $’s in back taxes when he advocated raising them? I would believe these people if they followed their own gospel. 
Maybe that road was in place, but who kept on paying taxes for more roads to be built? thats right, the factory. 

lol thats a great idea but on the other hand I think i would lose my mind:)

“Third world” countries have a whole lot of poor people and a very few rich people. The rich people generally hold jobs like “Sultan” or “General”, and/or work for extractive industries like oil, diamonds, etc. The kind of people those countries lack are called middle class. 

You’re not “real” Americans, by any stretch of the imagination. You’re overweight thugs who have continually apologized for malfeasance, corruption, theft, sociopathy and division in this country. Your hatred of America and what America stands for is toxically evident everytime you open your misinformed pieholes.

Real Americans don’t cheer the idea that someone might die from sickness. Real Americans don’t cheer the deaths of 216 people, criminals or otherwise, like Juggalos at the sign of breasts. Real Americans don’t boo a soldier, who’s putting his life down to protect your ass, because he’s gay. Real Americans are adults who pay their taxes, raise their kids, care about their neighbors and don’t spit on their fellow Americans because they’re black/Hispanic/gay/Muslim.

There’s nothing real or particularly American about what you hold dear.

America doesn’t build factories anymore.

She’s really bad.  I don’t know where Harvard finds these people.

She has probally spent less time time on a government check than Michelle Backman has.

When did the Vietnamese or the people of Iraq threaten America? The main threat to America is from with in, the tea baggers and oligarchs trying to turn America in to a third world country. With the wealthy elite protected by walls and everyone else fighting over the scraps.

Hedge funds (capital gains) taxes should be raised, they don’t create jobs they just move money.
Soros does the same thing as the Koch brs. Do but Soros foundations work for a more open inclusive societies and democracy and the kochs put their money in to foundations to protect their own narrow interest and stop people from being involved in their government.

Media matters is a non-profit, just like the Family research council. The mega churches should be paying taxes, Rick Warren, John hagge, pat Roberson, and the other preachers of the prosperity gospel are involved in politics and in business but pay nothing.

Buffet does not owe back taxes his corporation owes back taxes. That is the beauty of a limited liability corporation, the owners have a limited liability so through their corrupt leadership or incompetence, they can just close shop and leave the rest of us to clean up the debt or toxic mess.
Kind of like the Bush administration.

“What would Lenin do?”

The man taught revolution, by any means necessary, however, he was careful to promote a graduated change that would lull, as would an “opiate,” the people and powers that be. Effectively, Lenin was very careful before, in 1917, he took his train full of German Gold to St. Petersburg, and initiated the final and violent part of the supposed “glorious Revolution.”

And here you are , thinking how clever your Web-Name is, yet, being coy when I saw through your “play on words”. YOU are the spawn of Marx and Lenin, hence, at least show me the respect of an intellectual equal as I have, at least, parried every thrust?

As for your rhetoric, you sound like “Cold War” parody. The only thing missing is calling me a “capitalist, running dog, lackey” while raising your fist in defiance at every political statement that suits your ideology! LOL (Kind of like Khmer Rouge reunion)

You Sir, are America’s enemy, my enemy, not, “the tea baggers and oligarchs” as you call them!

I assume you have a closet full of nicely ironed “Che Guevara” t-Shirts” and de riguer “Mao hats”

Purveyor

Perveyor, Steve doesn’t live in Hanoi, he lives in California.

“TMP”

I did not know he lived in CA, but, I was sure he did not live in Hanoi! Regardless, he keeps coming back for more, hence I oblige… LOL

The other night some snot nosed punk said something derogatory about YOUR military service: “that you like to sit around and tell cold war stories?” (Which you probably do, but thats not the point, LOL) Anyway, I got mad at the guy, as I realized I was hearing this more and more from a plurality of young American’s.

It occurred to me, at that moment, that there is another, newer and younger generation that is belittling the nations warriors, with even less shame than in 1969? I can’t articulate it yet, but, I’ll run it by you when I can fully explain my thoughts…

Purveyor

Purveyor, I know that you know that I don’t sit around and tell “Cold War” stories as that idiot suggested. He expressed his disdain for the Military in a feeble attempt to anger me and to make me lose my cool. He failed and I called him on it. He backpedaled pretty quick after that. He then tried the “get help because of your PTD hidden hate” gambit.

That didn’t work either. The liberals today have a hatred for our military unless they are Gay, then it’s a different story. They are too ignorant to know that people who have served together in combat look on each other as Brothers and Sisters. It’s a lifetime bond that leftist will never destroy with their rhetoric.

It seems that Media Matters has sent this guy over here to try and shut me up. He complains that I don’t know how to conduct a civil conversation and he ended that post with uncivil insults.

You’re correct when you think that there is a liberal attack on the Military in this country. They try and hide it but it always comes out sooner or later.

I enjoy your posts and read them constantly here.

“TMP”

“TMP”

I hear you brother.

and those wealthy are paying a historically low share of taxes.
as for the folks not paying? they’re barely making anything. there’s nothing there to tax.
in the Eisenhower years, the top rate was well above 80 percent. We used to have sensible folks in both parties who realized that you have to fund public services in order for them to work. 
the liberal policies put in place by FDR created a middle class and American prosperity for decades. It was until the conservative movement came along and wrecked things that we’ve seen such disparity in rich and poor in this country, and middle class that is nearly extinct.

you’re the kind of guy who’s deluded enough to vote against your own interests, because you think you’re just a lottery ticket away from being rich yourself.

There is much to reply too in your letter. First, my attempt at humor, I thought was pretty funny? (chuckle) My Grand Parents would take me to the VFW Hall and I knew I was, truly, in the presence of Heros. (You know, “old vets” swapping stories? LOL Oh how I admired them) On the wall next to me is photo of “Gramps,” taken in France, with his Springfield ’06, bayonet and doughboy uniform.

I still have that same helmet, replete with a bullet hole, thus wounding him on his earlobe! Another inch, my gene pool would have been different!

My Uncle served in the 10th Mountain Division, in Italy on Riva Ridge! (Thats where Bob Dole was wounded)

I enlisted after High School, BUT, pulled out at the very last minute and ended up doing some very dangerous and, dare I say, intense work. I am sure the “esprit de corps” of the military WASN’T there, however, there was ‘gratification,’ that only the “thrill of the hunt” can bring… (note: I do have a fairly extensive background in military history. Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, Clausewitz and Caesar come in handy occasionally… “A good General chooses his battlefield.” LOL

Are you ‘serious’ about “Media Matters?” They are that angry with you?

On your return home in 1969: I used to think that those were stories about returning veterans being harassed, even spat on, were mostly myths. However, as I got older and started making friends who were Vietnam Veterans, I found out differently! That a person could be so stupid as to blame the “grunt” for the policies of the Government? Apparently, there were many more of those fooles than I originally thought.

My older Brother was a Conscientious Objector, he wasn’t ‘that’ stupid, BUT, he let men such as yourself fight his battles for him. He is still a pacifist.

The word “Gambit.” Good word! Has been part of my vocabulary for years, but, has been in the “dormant” box. No longer, thank you for helping me to re-acquire such and add to my active vocabulary. LOL

Your reply, provoked a myriad of thoughts, ideas, explanations, etc. So, I may comment on portions thereof in other posts, as I can’t keep up with my thoughts this morning.

I posted this a month or so ago:

“We (America) are involved in a great Civil War,” fortunately not (yet) one of combat and violence, but one of ‘Philosophy.’ Who are we?

Are we to remain the children of Jefferson and Washington, or, to become the spawn of Marx and Lenin?”

Purveyor

Purveyor, I’ll get back to you later. Today is my day to volunteer at the VA. There’s a good friend there who’s disabled and I take him out on Saturdays.

“TMP”

Actually a Third World country is more accurately defined by the disparity of wealth and shrinking middle class. The US currently ranks 47th in that regard globally.

How about a flat 10-15% tax on individuals and businesses alike, NO deductions. Slash the IRS…

YES WE CAN has already become “NO HE DIDNT”…

Obama is a wrecking ball… He destroyed the entire Health Insurance House instead of just adding on a room. He is an Accidental President, a Rebound Girlfriend to a country tired of the fear of Radical Islam and who prefer to live with the false perception that they have nothing to fear from it. Then this idiot warren comes along and repeats the mantra that the rich owe BIG GOVERNMENT for their wealth… THAT is what she is saying.. Really??? I own a company. My company has been nothing but short circuited by government at every turn. I am taxed to oblivion, and fines levied because I file in October, yet The HEAD of the IRS is a tax cheat, who owes more money in fines alone than I have EVER LEGALLY PAID in taxes my entire adult life!
The Obama team has got to go… You Liberals can live under the illusion that this accident in the White House was put in there for his accomplishments… But when you finally become honest with yourselves, you will admit that this buffoon and his racist wife were the biggest mistake you ever made…

Think about the following to see how this dumbass in the White House has played the race card… Obama was almost immediately awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. For WHAT? For his color most likely.. For the “historic” or more truly “histrionic” nature of his ascendancy. But I digress. Lets compare this ‘Nobel winner’ with past recipients and we will even include his own in the list:

2010: Liu Xiaobo for his long struggle for human rights in China. He put his life in danger daily for this cause. Does Obama even remotely possess the same qualities to win this prize?

2009: The Idiot in the White House… The text reads “for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples”.. Now show me all those efforts? Where are they? When did he do them? Where is the documentation?  I can show you Liu’s prison records and beatings, and near death ones at that… Obamas efforts? How can he sleep at night having been awarded a prize for efforts he NEVER UNDERTOOK??? The Oslo committee have destroyed the meaning of the prize.

2008:Martti Ahtisaari: For his important efforts on several continents over more than THREE DECADES to resolve international conflicts… Does Obama even remotely possess the same qualities to win this prize? Again I ask?

2007: Al Gore… For the Climate Change agenda of his.. Yet another false award. I dont have as big an issue with Gore and his “Fantastical World of ManMade Climate Change” as I might only because raising awareness about caring for the Earth has always been a good idea. Too bad that Al Gore chose to try to blame man for climate change. And then impose regulations on the USA for greenhouse gases while leaving China completely untouched, allowing China to grow its filth and forcing us to bankrupt companies that could have provided us with cleaner energy. Gore claimed that the science was indisputable;and then the science not only was disputed but has been shown to have been wildly ineffective at proving the main premise: That WE created climate change.

2006: Muhammed Yunis of GRameen Bank, Bangladesh : For providing microcredit or loans to poor people with little collateral, to bring poor people up from the bottom. It works. Its effective. He deserves it. Does Obama deserve to be treated with the same respect for HIS prize for doing… NOTHING?

2005: Mohammed ElBaradei: For his efforts to prevent the militarization of Nuclear energy technology. Doesnt always see eye to eye with the USA but his efforts actually are important to keeping world peace. And once again the ugly question: How in the world does Obama compare to THIS man in a peace prize category???

2004: Wangari Maathai: For her contribution to sustainable development in the third world. She started the Greenbelt movement in the 1970s.. So she has been at this since THEN. And Obama can compare to this woman???

2003: Shirin Ebadi: For her efforts to bring democracy and human rights to women and children in particular. Her struggle has been years and years long.. A life dedication. (sigh) Obama? Does anyone even KNOW what political hype had had to have rained down to not only be considered but to fool a WIN of a prize for doing NOTHING when Shirin Ebadi is risking her life daily to bring Iranian womens rights to a culture that simply does NOT tolerate women’s rights???

2002: Jimmy Carter: The second worst president next to Obama, BUT, from his other role as a peacemaker in the world, he has tirelessly spent decades trying to bring peace to the world. He is misguided in my view but I respect the effort.  Obama cant even hold up to THIS award to Carter!

2001: Kofi Anna: For working for a better organized, more peaceful world. Like him or not, at that time the UN wasnt AS corrupt as it is now. At least Annan was out there working actively and very publicly to bring peace to the world. Where was Obama? When did he go around the world promoting peace? Ahhh I know, he’s promoting peace in Libya.. No… wait…

2000: Kim Dae-jung : For his efforts to bring unity to the Korean Peninsula using peaceful means. This man has dedicated his LIFE to the effort. Where does Obama measure on the Dae-jung scale I wonder???

1999: Medecins San Frontieres: For pioneering humanitarian work and the needs of peoples on several continents… For work already done for many years. Just what has Obama “Pioneered”?

1998: John Hume and David Trimble: For their efforts to find a peaceful solution to the crisis and conflict in Northern Ireland.  You can point directly to their results. When I try to point at Obamas I am pointing HERE, …no wait… THERE… no ok wait a second OVER HER… nooooo not there… You get the picture…

1997: Jody Williams, International Campaign to Ban Landmines. Well deserved. She worked for years to rid the world of landmines. Can Obama come close to her merits?

OK So you get the picture… Hell of a digression from the article I guess but Warren is touting the Obama agenda and the absolutely foolish award of the Peace Prize is just one more example illustrating the manipulative powers of Obama before the election.

I am sure the Oslo committee is kicking themselves now..  He won the award : “for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples”

I wonder if the Libyans agree?

So where are you going to get a 10% interest rate these days?  The Democrats were in control of the house and senate for many years during the Bush era, and it is because of their spending, entitlement policies, sub prime mandate that has caused where we are now.  Obama promised that there would be shovel ready jobs, infrastructure improvement, and now since he’s spent it all on his cronies and bogus companies, he suddenly is trying to fix bridges and roads that don’t need fixing, but  he lies about it to get what he wants. Elizabeth Warren is in an alternate universe.  It is insulting to all business owners and taxpayers for her to make us share what we’ve worked hard for.  I’d be interested to see if Ms Warren practices what she preaches, but I doubt she does……  Maybe you should find a job and see if you want to share when the time comes.   

You mean like 2 major and several minor wars, all started on shaky to false pretexts?

Actually last opinion poll has her rating 20% above the incumbent Scott Walker.

Insightful and well stated!

Its so funny how you can call President Obama a Zero when GB was an idiot. Oh and don’t forget Obama is rich also

Funny most American’s live off of least than $50,000 a year. So if those making $200,000 plus can’t live off of 4 times what the average American lives off of than they are idiots.

moe313 (below) replied to my post that anyone not able to live on 4 times the average of $50,000 is an idiot.  He fails to realize that the people with a higher income will get Zero help with education costs while low earners will get grants, low cost loans which are sometimes Never repaid, (and I mean for 20 or 30 years) Did you know that children of people in Congress DO NOT Have to pay back their student loans at all???  The more affluent will necessarily have added expenses and the affluent Will have their children educated no matter how much it costs.  Many people making $50,000 or less can qualify for other help as well.  Another factor is the cost of living in any given area.  The disparity can put an “average” earner in the poverty level as it is defined today. That is why there is virtually no True poverty in America any longer unless they choose to be homeless.  Our country provides at the expense of high earners, all the necessities and many luxuries to people in public housing, on welfare, food stamps, Plus medical care.  That is NOT available to anyone in a truly impoverished nation.  You may ask, what luxuries?  Unless you live in the desert you do not need air conditioning. A stove usually suffices for cooking, a microwave therefore is not a necessity.  Free cell phones with free minutes are a luxury. And last but not least, a dish washer is a luxury.  Yet almost every subsidized home is equipped with all of the above. And according to the census most of those subsidized homes are equipped with large screen TVs and X-boxes (whatever that is). I’m not saying people should not be able enjoy these luxuries.  What I am saying is Work for it like everyone else!  Moe313 is the idiot.

I agree with you 100%!!  My blood just boils when I heard these politicians only tells the part of the story that makes them look like real heroes; like they are saving the world when in reality all they are doing is stirring up stuff that they truly can not back up.  I would love to see where Elizabeth Warren got this information from to be able to back up her rants.  If Elizabeth is already telling lies and misinforming the people of MA, just imagine the lies she is going to tell if she does get elected.  People of MA you had better listen closely when she talks because she is doing her best to insult YOUR intelligence. 

When Moses comes down off of that mountain he is really going to be upset when he sees what is going on with some people; they make not be worshipping a golden calf this time, although, they are worshipping someone that believes he is the “Anointed One!!”   

That is EXACTLY what she is saying…read the article again – “You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads THE REST OF US PAID FOR. You hired workers THE REST OF US PAID TO EDUCATE. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that THE REST OF US PAID FOR. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of THE WORK THE REST OF US DID. Where did she once give credit to those that DO create jobs, in her rantings and blathering??

If Elizabeth Warren wants to go after someone or something, why doesn’t she go after Obama’s best friend Immelt, the CEO of GE??  This is what Dem. Congressman Dennis Kucinich from Ohio had to say:  “As 14 million Americans struggle with unemployment, General Electric, under Mr. Immelt’s leadership, is exporting highly-sophisticated technology to the Chinese in order to book short-term profits for GE. GE strives mightily to avoid paying federal income taxes, but goes ‘all in’ on a deal to transfer U.S. government-subsidized technology to the Chinese. Jeffrey Immelt has a conflict of interest. He cannot ethically advise the President on how to create American jobs and promote American competiveness, while at the same time leading a company that is exporting American technology and, along with it, American jobs.  American taxpayers subsidized the development of this advanced technology, but U.S. taxpayers’ investment will end up creating jobs in China. In the short term, GE is selling products to the Chinese, which will help GE’s bottom line. In the long term, the Chinese will end up manufacturing and selling products using the same technologies that were made in America.” The United States has long been the leader in aerospace development and manufacturing. We have the best-trained, most skilled workers which give American-made aerospace products a natural competitive advantage. How can Mr. Immelt be the head of the President’s ‘Jobs and Competiveness Council’ while undermining the United State’s advantage in aerospace?” 

Elizabeth Warren doesn’t want to look at the obvious — the BIG compaines.  If she would go after GE and maybe all of the political elected/appointed employees on Capitol Hill and the White House and get them to pay their taxes, in full with all interest and penalties, she wouldn’t have time to spread all of these lies about what the “rich” aren’t paying plus, the money collected would pay the National Debt down by at least 2 billion!!  

Warren; Socialist Whore.