Who in the hell is Glenn Beck to decide whether or not someone’s religious beliefs are “mainstream”? Half of Evangelical Christians don’t even believe that Beck is Christian! Does he think he’s God?

Black Liberation theology . …It’s sweeping the country ! …And after that , the country could use a good sweeping .

It’s hard to say whether many churches are like Pfleger’s in the clip, but one thing is sure; as this Christian on Christian debate rages on, I bet Muslims are pretty glad to be out of the conversation for a while.

translation services</a

Obama’s own words tell us his beliefs. Collective salvation is not mainstream. It is lame stream.

Would love to see Beck and Press have a discussion of what Liberation theology is and what it is not. Would be very educational for all who are parroting this phrase as if they understand what they are talking about.

I thought Pres Obama’s religion was established beyond the shadow of a doubt. He goes to the church of Marxism. BTW Jon, thanks for showing white boy Michael Pfleger. Reminds me again why I despise white leftists.

Azarkhan said:
Reminds me again why I despise white leftists.

I’m sure the feeling is mutual.

Liberation Theology is the idea that social unity is not based on units of people but on units of collectives as in Maoism, Stalinism, Marxism and (extreme) Leftism in general. I do not think this is mainstream in the West but in the East, and Islam.

Ron C. de Weijze said:
Liberation Theology is the idea that social unity is not based on units of people but on units of collectives as in Maoism, Stalinism, Marxism and (extreme) Leftism in general. I do not think this is mainstream in the West but in the East, and Islam.

Is that what it is? Here’s a different take, from the former president of the Chicago Theological Seminary.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2010/08/liberation_theology_for_beginners.html

Then again most churches don’t require you to wear magical underpants.

And Mormonism is not a Christian religion in the traditional sense as Christians believe the Old and New Testament are the only holy books. Mormons wrote and unauthorized sequel.

“Why is Mormonism a non-Christian religion? It is not Christian because it denies that there is only one God, denies the true Gospel, adds works to salvation, denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator, distorts the biblical teaching of the atonement, and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.
http://carm.org/is-mormonism-christian

According to James Martin, SJ, Beck has no idea what he is talking about:

A little history: Liberation theology began in Latin America in the 1950s and 1960s, and was later was developed more systematically by Catholic theologians who began to reflect on experiences of the poor there. The term was coined by the Rev. Gustavo Gutierrez, a Peruvian priest, in his landmark book A Theology of Liberation, published in 1971. Briefly put, liberation theology (and there are many definitions, by the way) is a Gospel-based critique of the status quo through the eyes of the poor. Contrary to what Beck implies, the liberation theologian doesn’t see himself or herself as victim; rather proponents call us to see how the poor are marginalized by society, work among them, advocate on their behalf, and help them advocate for themselves. It has nothing to do with seeing yourself as victim. It is, like all authentic Christian practices, “other-directed.”

Also, a quote: “[W]e are convinced, we and you, that liberation theology is not only timely but useful and necessary”

Who said it? None other than Pope John Paul II.

Mean while, in news that actually effects Americans, the unemployment rate has risen to 9.6%,

Speaking of muslims, will the liberal-leaning media mention this article on radical muslims? This is coming to America, folks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100903/wl_nm/us_dutch_wilders

Its all about hate anymore. Religion is just a tool for the weak and nimble minded have a reason to hate. It used to be one religion hating the other religion. Now Christians hate Christians. It just doesn’t get better then this.

Gibbs & Company needs to worry about the headline this morning….

The unemployment rate increased from 9.5 percent to 9.6 percent. – as reported in Politico!

“It’s hard to say whether many churches are like Pfleger’s in the clip, but one thing is sure; as this Christian on Christian debate rages on, I bet Muslims are pretty glad to be out of the conversation for a while.” That is why they call him the rodeo clown.

Not mainstream? You mean every pastor doesn’t yell “Goddamn America” from the pulpit?

Azarkhan said:
I thought Pres Obama’s religion was established beyond the shadow of a doubt. He goes to the church of Marxism. BTW Jon, thanks for showing white boy Michael Pfleger. Reminds me again why I despise white leftists.

Speaking of Flegler, why does he speak ebonics? Does this give him more street cred, with the boyz in the hood? LOL.

All of a sudden about 23 people in this country know who Bill Press
and Mr ED the Talking Horses ASS are !
They should be thanking Beck !

PaulMDoro “Comedy is one way we can actually see ourselves in all our stupid will-to-power stunts and our foolish grasping after a certainty that does not exist.” (from your link) — The real threat of power is in group-polarization, so well played by the left and those I mentioned. Power should be looked for by the individual by seeking, finding and following independent confirmation of his own (ethical) experience, NOT have it washed into his brain by you know who. That is all dependent and VERY destructive in the end, including for South American states and if Obama isn’t stopped, North as well.

Beck will never accept a challenge to a debate. He knows that he’s not that smart and he’d get chewed up debating Mickey Mouse, much less Bill Press whose new book just arrived in the mail yesterday.

Beck is a paradox: he is courageous to be attacking the President the way he does (deceitfully), and he’s a coward about having a face to face debate.

Liberty, stay on topic here. That’s another story of the lingering effects of Bush’s destruction of the American Dream.

writer said:
Not mainstream? You mean every pastor doesn’t yell “Goddamn America” from the pulpit?

Folks, believe it or not, Beck is fallible. He is capable of being wrong.

From the Catholic magazine America:

“Liberation theology is not Marxism disguised as religion. It is Christianity presented in all its disturbing fullness.”

Ron C. de Weijze said:
Power should be looked for by the individual by seeking, finding and following independent confirmation of his own (ethical) experience, NOT have it washed into his brain by you know who.

Beck?

By any other name, a rose is a rose. By any other name, Wright is a racist.

paulmdoro said:
Who in the hell is Glenn Beck to decide whether or not someone’s religious beliefs are “mainstream”? Half of Evangelical Christians don’t even believe that Beck is Christian! Does he think he’s God?

Wait…lots of Christians don’t think Beck is a Christian (which he’s mentioned recently) and he’s suggesting that he might know what mainstream Christianity is and is not. Obviously, he thinks he’s God.

Logic is no match for you, paul.

paulmdoro said:
“Liberation theology is not Marxism disguised as religion. It is Christianity presented in all its disturbing fullness.”

Nonsense.

writer said:
Not mainstream? You mean every pastor doesn’t yell “Goddamn America” from the pulpit?

Good mainstream Christians know that America invented AIDS to kill black people, writer.

Pablo, I forgot about that one. I guess they are mainstream.

Pablo said:
Nonsense.

Great post Pablo! What would we do without your valuable contributions?

Pablo said:
Wait…lots of Christians don’t think Beck is a Christian (which he’s mentioned recently) and he’s suggesting that he might know what mainstream Christianity is and is not. Obviously, he thinks he’s God.

Logic is no match for you, paul.

Look who’s talking.

It is tough, paul, defending Wright. Especially when he embraces the equally racist Louis Farrakhan. But we give you credit for trying.

writer said:
It is tough, paul, defending Wright. Especially when he embraces the equally racist Louis Farrakhan. But we give you credit for trying.

When did I defend Wright?

writer said:
Not mainstream? You mean every pastor doesn’t yell “Goddamn America” from the pulpit?

Yes, some like Hagee, seated behind Glenn, like to shout “god damn” at Catholics.

Since Wright was Obama’s pastor and ‘mentor’ for twenty years, and you’re arguing that Obama’s version of Christianity is ‘mainstream’, you must also be defending Wright.

That doesn’t excuse Wright, valk.

writer said:
Since Wright was Obama’s pastor and ‘mentor’ for twenty years, and you’re arguing that Obama’s version of Christianity is ‘mainstream’, you must also be defending Wright.

Nice leap there. I am not defending Wright or the hateful comments he’s made. I am saying theologians (you know what that means?) state Beck has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to liberation theology.

GlennBeckReview said:
Liberty, stay on topic here. That’s another story of the lingering effects of Bush’s destruction of the American Dream.

Fair point. I mean we can never have to many kool-aid drinkers.

But let’s be honest here. When the Democrat controlled congress and Obama passed that almost trillion dollar “Stimulus” Package….(bblrp)…sorry I just threw up a little in my mouth…When they passed that “bill” they promised that unemployment would not rise over 8%. To be fair, it was the White House who made that claim.

Now I agree, Bu$h had plenty to do with the situation…I mean TARP was just another redistribution debacle.

writer said:
That doesn’t excuse Wright, valk.

Doesn’t excuse Hagee either, and Beck chose to associate with Hagee.

writer said:
Since Wright was Obama’s pastor and ‘mentor’ for twenty years, and you’re arguing that Obama’s version of Christianity is ‘mainstream’, you must also be defending Wright.

Obama disavowed Wirght’s racist statements. And of course, it has been quite a while since Obama has attended the Wright church. But Beck has a current relationship with Hagee, and Hagee is part of the Beck’s “Black Robe Brigade”. Glenn had him seated in the place of honor right behind him. No telling what Hagee was doing under that robe while he stared at Glenn’s butt for two hours.

valkyrie101 said:
Obama disavowed Wirght’s racist statements. And of course, it has been quite a while since Obama has attended the Wright church. But Beck has a current relationship with Hagee, and Hagee is part of the Beck’s “Black Robe Brigade”. Glenn had him seated in the place of honor right behind him. No telling what Hagee was doing under that robe while he stared at Glenn’s butt for two hours.

And Hagee, of course, suggested that the Pope is the anti-Christ and said Hitler became an anti-Semite because of his Catholic education.

valkyrie101 said:
Obama disavowed Wirght’s racist statements.

Not until he absolutely had to, and even then he tried to sell the notion that he had no idea Wright was such a pig.

I’ll bet you believed him, didn’t you?

paulmdoro said:
And Hagee, of course, suggested that the Pope is the anti-Christ and said Hitler became an anti-Semite because of his Catholic education.

…And that God rendered Katrina to punish it for catering to gays.

This whole religion talk is just BS. What matters is how the government wastes our money, can’t balance a check book, and is spending $360 BILLION dollars on interest payments alone.

Pablo said:
Not until he absolutely had to, and even then he tried to sell the notion that he had no idea Wright was such a pig.

I’ll bet you believed him, didn’t you?

Did McCain disavow Hagee? Why did Beck seek his support?

Pablo said:
Not until he absolutely had to, and even then he tried to sell the notion that he had no idea Wright was such a pig. I’ll bet you believed him, didn’t you?

Of course, pablo, this is all old ground. The population voted for Obama. You still don’t like him, we know. But Glenn hooking up with Hagee is serious, because Hagee is a raging anti-Catholic, and the Mormons too have been quite anti-Papist, so this may not be taken well by Catholics.

valkyrie101 said:
Of course, pablo, this is all old ground. The population voted for Obama. You still don’t like him, we know. But Glenn hooking up with Hagee is serious, because Hagee is a raging anti-Catholic, and the Mormons too have been quite anti-Papist, so this may not be taken well by Catholics.

You’re just trying to instill fear. Obama’$ been buds with Louis Farakhan….

writer said:
Not mainstream? You mean every pastor doesn’t yell “Goddamn America” from the pulpit?

I know, it is asking a lot but perhaps if teabaggers read and thought and took this in context it might make more sense:

“And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent, she failed. She put them on reservations.”

“When it came to putting her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in interment prison camps.”

“When it came to putting the citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters. Put them on auction blocks. Put them in cotton fields. Put them in inferior schools. Put them in substandard housing. Put them scientific experiments. Put them in the lower paying jobs. Put them outside the equal protection of the law. Kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education, and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness.”

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. Naw, naw, naw. Not God Bless America. God Damn America! That’s in the Bible. For killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God Damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is Supreme….

…Tell your neighbor he’s (going to) help us one last time. Turn back and say forgive him for the God Damn, that’s in the Bible though. Blessings and curses is in the Bible. It’s in the Bible.

“Where government fail, God never fails. When God says it, it’s done. God never fails. When God wills it, you better get out the way, cause God never fails. When God fixes it, oh believe me it’s fixed. God never fails. Somebody right now, you think you can’t make it, but I want you to know that you are more than

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-wright%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cgod-damn-america%E2%80%9D-sermon/

Who the hell is Obama to go to a radical church for 20 years and then have his henchmen call his religion mainstream? Seriously, what kind of Christian says that his salvation depends on collective salvation? I’m not a Christian, yet even I know that in the Christian religion salvation comes through accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. It does NOT come by passing healthcare reform, raising taxes, and calling the Muslim bible the “holy” q’uran.

So paul, you’re saying that Wright and black liberation theology are two totally unrelated topics? If the church Obama attended was mainstream, then so are those Aryan Nation churches out in Idaho. And valk, it’s odd you’d blame Beck for being around Hagee for a couple of hours, but when Obama goes to Wright’s church for twenty years, you see nothing wrong with it.

writer said:
So paul, you’re saying that Wright and black liberation theology are two totally unrelated topics? If the church Obama attended was mainstream, then so are those Aryan Nation churches out in Idaho. And valk, it’s odd you’d blame Beck for being around Hagee for a couple of hours, but when Obama goes to Wright’s church for twenty years, you see nothing wrong with it.

I am saying that Glenn Beck is either misinformed or lying when it comes to liberation theology. Unless you are suggesting that Pope John Paul II was a Marxist or Communist. Are you saying that?

Timothy, I’m not a tea bagger or tea partier. But Wright is a racist, and is best buds with racist Louis Farrakhan. I realize it’s embarrassing for the left to admit that it’s not only whites who can be racist. Oh, wait a minute. You won’t admit it.

writer said:
Timothy, I’m not a tea bagger or tea partier. But Wright is a racist, and is best buds with racist Louis Farrakhan. I realize it’s embarrassing for the left to admit that it’s not only whites who can be racist. Oh, wait a minute. You won’t admit it.

I’ll admit it. Your statement that “the left” won’t admit people other than whites can be racist is simple not true.

simply, sorry

paul, I’ll admit I’m not up on the Pope enough to know what he was. But I’ve heard enough of Wright and Farrakhan’s comments to know where they’re coming from.

writer said:
paul, I’ll admit I’m not up on the Pope enough to know what he was. But I’ve heard enough of Wright and Farrakhan’s comments to know where they’re coming from.

Let me help you then. No, he wasn’t a Communist. In fact, he led a lifelong crusade against Communism. Why, then, would he also embrace liberation theology? Could it be that Beck has no clue what he’s rambling about?

I don’t care about any of this…..but strictly as an observer…..it is so strange to see a guy like Glenn Beck, come from practically out of nowhere, and to apparently be able to pull the strings of both political parties…the media…..and much of the public, as he sits back, counts his money…and dare I say….laugh at what he has engendered.
P.T Barnum would be proud.

More Liberty, you hit it on the nose. Any issue to take away from the anemic economy and the backlash of this new health care plan. The average family will be paying 15% more and getting less benefits from the employers with their new enrollments. I guess that’s not a tax increase to the middle class.

Good commentary from an African American on this:

The Marxist Roots of Black Liberation Theology
http://www.acton.org/pub/commentary/2008/04/02/marxist-roots-black-liberation-theology

Black Liberation Is Marxist Liberation
One of the pillars of Obama’s home church, Trinity United Church of Christ, is “economic parity.” On the website, Trinity claims that God is not pleased with “America’s economic mal-distribution.” Among all of controversial comments by Jeremiah Wright, the idea of massive wealth redistribution is the most alarming. The code language “economic parity” and references to “mal-distribution” is nothing more than channeling the twisted economic views of Karl Marx. Black Liberation theologians have explicitly stated a preference for Marxism as an ethical framework for the black church because Marxist thought is predicated on a system of oppressor class (whites) versus victim class (blacks).

Black Liberation theologians James Cone and Cornel West have worked diligently to embed Marxist thought into the black church since the 1970s. For Cone, Marxism best addressed remedies to the condition of blacks as victims of white oppression. In For My People, Cone explains that “the Christian faith does not possess in its nature the means for analyzing the structure of capitalism. Marxism as a tool of social analysis can disclose the gap between appearance and reality, and thereby help Christians to see how things really are.”

In God of the Oppressed, Cone said that Marx’s chief contribution is “his disclosure of the ideological character of bourgeois thought, indicating the connections between the ‘ruling material force of society’ and the ‘ruling intellectual’ force.” Marx’s thought is useful and attractive to Cone because it allows black theologians to critique racism in America on the basis of power and revolution.

For Cone, integrating Marx into black theology helps theologians see just how much social perceptions determine theological questions and conclusions. Moreover, these questions and answers are “largely a reflection of the material condition of a given society.”

In 1979, Cornel West offered a critical integration of Marxism and black theology in his essay, “Black Theology and Marxist Thought” because of the shared human experience of oppressed peoples as victims. West sees a strong correlation between black theology and Marxist thought because “both focus on the plight of the exploited, oppressed and degraded peoples of the world, their relative powerlessness and possible empowerment.” This common focus prompts West to call for “a serious dialogue between Black theologians and Marxist thinkers” — a dialogue that centers on the possibility of “mutually arrived-at political action.”

In his book Prophesy Deliverance, West believes that by working together, Marxists and black theologians can spearhead much-needed social change for those who are victims of oppression. He appreciates Marxism for its “notions of class struggle, social contradictions, historical specificity, and dialectical developments in history” that explain the role of power and wealth in bourgeois capitalist societies. A common perspective among Marxist thinkers is that bourgeois capitalism creates and perpetuates ruling-class domination — which, for black theologians in America, means the domination and victimization of blacks by whites. America has been over run by “White racism within mainstream establishment churches and religious agencies,” writes West.

Perhaps it is the Marxism imbedded in Obama’s attendance at Trinity Church that should raise red flags. “Economic parity” and “distribution” language implies things like government-coerced wealth redistribution, perpetual minimum wage increases, government subsidized health care for all, and the like. One of the priorities listed on Obama’s campaign website reads, “Obama will protect tax cuts for poor and middle class families, but he will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers.”

Black Liberation Theology, originally intended to help the black community, may have actually hurt many blacks by promoting racial tension, victimology, and Marxism which ultimately leads to more oppression. As the failed “War on Poverty” has exposed, the best way to keep the blacks perpetually enslaved to government as “daddy” is to preach victimology, Marxism, and to seduce blacks into thinking that upward mobility is someone else’s responsibility in a free society.

Puter Boi said:

P.T Barnum would be proud.

Ain’t that the truth.

The nonsense about President Obama being a Muslim has got to stop. I rise to defend him from this absurd accusation by pointing out that he is obviously an atheist.

Leave aside Obama’s fanatical opposition to allowing Illinois hospitals to save the lives of babies with God-given souls inadvertently born alive during abortions. Also leave aside the fact that neither of his parents were Christians. And leave aside his current crop of “spiritual advisers,” which is a collection of Mother Earth worshippers, polytheists and other nonbelievers.

Now rest from all that “leaving aside.”

The only evidence for Obama’s Christianity is that he faithfully attended the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ for 20 years.

Yes, the guy bellowing “God damn America!” is the one vouching for Obama’s Christianity. That’s like saying you got sober with the help of your A.A. sponsor Lindsay Lohan.

It is a fact that any non-retarded person (thank you, Rahm Emanuel!) sitting in the Rev. Wright’s church for 20 minutes, much less 20 years, does not believe in God. Even stepping inside Wright’s church for a moment to get out of the rain is borderline racist.

Going to Trinity United Church of Christ is even stronger evidence of nonbelief than Bill Clinton returning from Sunday services to receive oral sex from Monica Lewinsky. This isn’t mere sin — everybody sins (though some with more frequency and less remorse than others).

Attending Wright’s church is the conscious, calculated decision to immerse yourself in hate-filled demagoguery and call it “Christianity.”

But according to North Korean TV’s Chris Matthews, it is a provable, scientific fact that Obama is a Christian because he says so. “Everybody watching right now,” Matthews said to his several viewers last week, “gets credit for being of the religion you say you are. … We accept that in America. It’s called freedom of religion and respect for religion.”

That would make professions of religious belief, unlike all other self-professions, unchallengeable. Liberals say conservatives don’t believe in civil rights. I say liberals are godless traitors. Why is one statement debatable and the other not?

LOL full article here:
http://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCoulter/2010/09/01/obama_is_not_a_muslim/page/full/

paul, I never said it was Marxist. I said Wright is a racist, and so is his buddy Farrakhan. And since Obama attended Wright’s church for twenty years, I don’t think Wright’s version is ‘mainstream’. If the Aryan Nation church in Idaho tosses in some Christianity in their sermons, would you consider them ‘mainstream’?

More Liberty said:
You’re just trying to instill fear. Obama’$ been buds with Louis Farakhan….

You keep talking about past relationships that were considered by all and discounted in favor of electing Obama. Here we have Glenn hobnobbing, not in the past, but now, with someone who considers Catholics to be despicable. And besides Hagee, Glenn presented three different ministers that are hooked up with Reverend Moon, who also despises Catholics and who wants to take over the world.

Ann Coulter, always the voice of reason. Thanks so much for sharing.

writer, here’s what I think about Wright and his church. I didn’t attend it. I wasn’t there. All I know is what I see in brief YouTube clips. Do those represent 20 years of a man’s work? I believe religion is a very personal, private matter, and judging another person’s religious beliefs while knowing little about them should not be taken lightly. My parents attended the same Catholic church for over 30 years. On countless occasions their priests said things that repulsed them, that they strongly disagreed with. Yet they remained faithful churchgoers there. Why? Because a person’s religious beliefs can be personal and complicated. Because they felt they belonged there. Because the comments of a few priests didn’t represent their beliefs or the entire church.

paulmdoro said:
Ann Coulter, always the voice of reason. Thanks so much for sharing.

nice defense, fuckstick.

you are such a pussy

writer said:
Timothy, I’m not a tea bagger or tea partier. But Wright is a racist, and is best buds with racist Louis Farrakhan. I realize it’s embarrassing for the left to admit that it’s not only whites who can be racist. Oh, wait a minute. You won’t admit it.

I admit there are non white racists.

I do not feel that Wright hates all whites but he clearly does hate some for their actions and not their heritage.

Louis Farrakhan is a nutjob as is Glenn Beck.

Constantly said:
nice defense, fuckstick.

you are such a pussy

Seeing as how reasonable people with half a brain pay no mind to raging lunatics like Ann Coulter, no defense is needed.

You are truly a sad, pathetic human being in need of serious help. I hope you get it before your rage causes you to physically hurt someone.

paulmdoro said:
Seeing as how reasonable people with half a brain pay no mind to raging lunatics like Ann Coulter, no defense is needed.

You are truly a sad, pathetic human being in need of serious help. I hope you get it before your rage causes you to physically hurt someone.

no rage here, youre just a pussy

writer said:
And valk, it’s odd you’d blame Beck for being around Hagee for a couple of hours, but when Obama goes to Wright’s church for twenty years, you see nothing wrong with it.

Actually, even valk doesn’t seem to be willing to go that far. But apparently it doesn’t matter anymore because we already talked about it and next subject, please. The fact that the media utterly failed to vet this guy? We won, bitches.

REVEREND MOON!

But Tim, Wright’s Trumpet magazine presented Farrakhan an award for ‘exemplifying greatness’. If Farrakhan’s a nut, then Wright must be, too.

Pablo said:
Actually, even valk doesn’t seem to be willing to go that far. But apparently it doesn’t matter anymore because we already talked about it and next subject, please. The fact that the media utterly failed to vet this guy? We won, bitches.

REVEREND MOON!

You won alright. Just not in the way you think.

Constantly said:
no rage here, youre just a pussy

Denial I see. Good luck with that. Here’s hoping those close to you as well as complete strangers are safe.

writer, here’s what I think about Wright and his church. I didn’t attend it. I wasn’t there. All I know is what I see in brief YouTube clips. Do those represent 20 years of a man’s work? I believe religion is a very personal, private matter, and judging another person’s religious beliefs while knowing little about them should not be taken lightly.

Church is not a personal, private matter, it’s very public. Some people have looked deeper into Wright and Trinity United than You Tube clips. That you have not means only that you have not. Argument from ignorance is not very effective.

Pablo said:
Church is not a personal, private matter, it’s very public. Some people have looked deeper into Wright and Trinity United than You Tube clips. That you have not means only that you have not. Argument from ignorance is not very effective.

I’m sure you have done extensive research into Wright. I’m sure you attended his church as part of your background research. Someone like you has no business talking about ignorance or effective arguments. Not as long as you continue to be one of the kool-aid drinkers.

paulmdoro said:
Denial I see. Good luck with that. Here’s hoping those close to you as well as complete strangers are safe.

lol internet 101 keep trying pussy

paulmdoro said:
I’m sure you have done extensive research into Wright.

Clearly, I’ve done far more of it than you have. See, I was actually interested in who this guy running for POTUS was, and where he was coming from. None of this is new to me, and Beck is late to the game on this one. Not as late as you, though.

Someone like you has no business talking about ignorance or effective arguments.

Yeah, better we should listen to a guy who admits he has no idea what he’s talking about, and doesn’t want to know.

gordonbloyershow said:
Obama’s own words tell us his beliefs. Collective salvation is not mainstream. It is lame stream.

You should be more familiar with the words of Jesus Gordon.

Matthew 25:40
“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

The Bible is subject to interpretation and liberation theology is based on the Bible, and faith is Jesus. That’s certainly as mainstream as Mormonism.
James 2: 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Beck’s hypocrisy is that Saturday he makes a huge show of religious unity and calls for Americans to be truthful and seek the truth. Sunday he attacks the presidents religion.

Pablo, talk about pot and kettle. Seriously.

Catholic theologian: “Liberation theology is not Marxism disguised as religion. It is Christianity presented in all its disturbing fullness.”

Your response: “Nonsense.”

Wow. What a detailed and well-reasoned argument. An entire word! You claim to be more knowledgeable than a Catholic theologian but completely fail to state how that is true.

And you have the temerity to say someone else has no idea what they’re talking about? That’s some nerve.

Nope, nothing segregationist here.

Black Value System

I suppose one good thing that will come of this , is that people believing Obama is a Muslim for no good reason will have to update their uninformed opinions to “non mainstream” Christian.

1. Liberation theology is a phenomenon with an extraordinary number of layers. There is a whole spectrum from radically marxist positions, on the one hand, to the efforts which are being made within the framework of a correct and ecclesial theology, on the other hand, a theology which stresses the responsibility which Christians necessarily hear for the poor and oppressed, such as we see in the documents of the Latin American Bishops’ Conference (CELAM) from Medellin to Puebla. In what follows, the concept of liberation theology will be understood in a narrower sense: it will refer only to those theologies which, in one way or another, have embraced the marxist fundamental option.

Joseph Cardianal Ratzinger, aka Pope Benedict XVI.

We should not judge Wright by his own words.

Pablo said:
Joseph Cardianal Ratzinger, aka Pope Benedict XVI.

That guy sure is no Pope Paul II. He’s entitled to his opinion though. Many Catholics and theologians do not agree. Do some reading, since you claim to love conducting extensive research.

AngelPeters said:
Would love to see Beck and Press have a discussion of what Liberation theology is and what it is not. Would be very educational for all who are parroting this phrase as if they understand what they are talking about.

exactly. If you want to really know about something read the pros and the cons. Listen to the praise and the criticism. Do some independent research rather than relying on a money motivated TV personality.

writer said:
We should not judge Wright by his own words.

What would you have done?

paul, I’d do the same thing Obama did. I’d say Wright may have said some untoward things, but in twenty years I never heard any of it.

writer said:
paul, I’d do the same thing Obama did. I’d say Wright may have said some untoward things, but in twenty years I never heard any of it.

So what’s the issue then?

paulmdoro said:
Many Catholics and theologians do not agree.

Yeah, see Fr. Michael Pfleger. How that guy still runs a Catholic parish is beyond me.

Do some reading, since you claim to love conducting extensive research.

Oh, I didn’t say that. I just said I knew more about the topic than you do, which is pretty simple, given that you admit to knowing next to nothing about it. Any ten year old with Google could top that.

paul, you’ve won me over. Wright’s not a racist and is as mainstream as they come. So are those white supremacist churches out west. After all, they occasionally mention God, in between the other stuff.

writer said:
By any other name, a rose is a rose. By any other name, Wright is a racist.

One of the best comments I heard on Wright came from Mike Huckabee who is an ordained Southern Baptist Minster. He said that anyone who didn’t grow up black in the 50s and 60s ought to cut the guy some slack.

Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

writer said:
paul, you’ve won me over. Wright’s not a racist and is as mainstream as they come. So are those white supremacist churches out west. After all, they occasionally mention God, in between the other stuff.

Sigh. OK then.

Pablo said:
I just said I knew more about the topic than you do, which is pretty simple, given that you admit to knowing next to nothing about it.

Says you. I have my doubts based on other things you’ve said. You’re certainly no theologian.

writer said:
We should not judge Wright by his own words.

Not by a selected few chosen for political reasons. His work and life is much more than those few words.

CosmosDan said:
Not by a selected few chosen for political reasons. His work and life is much more than those few words.

and hes a snappy dresser!

paulmdoro said:
Says you. I have my doubts based on other things you’ve said. You’re certainly no theologian.

But I can link source material that you can then ignore because you don’t like me and therefore no facts I present need be taken into your teeny tiny worldview. Because of the open-mindedness.

Did I ever claim to be a theologian, or is that what you inferred when I linked to a piece written by the Pope?

CosmosDan said:
Not by a selected few chosen for political reasons. His work and life is much more than those few words.

Yeah, it sure is. You wouldn’t want to leave out these words:

“Them Jews ain’t going to let him talk to me,” Wright said. “I told my baby daughter that he’ll talk to me in five years when he’s a lame duck, or in eight years when he’s out of office. …

“They will not let him to talk to somebody who calls a spade what it is. … I said from the beginning: He’s a politician; I’m a pastor. He’s got to do what politicians do.”

What do you suppose Wright means by “what politicians do”?

So Cosmos, it would be your position that if a white person has ever had some bad experience with blacks and it affects their racial views, we should cut them some slack.

writer said:
So Cosmos, it would be your position that if a white person has ever had some bad experience with blacks and it affects their racial views, we should cut them some slack.

Is it fair to judge all by the actions of a few?

No, paul. But it’s also not fair to condemn white racists, but not black ones.

writer said:
No, paul. But it’s also not fair to condemn white racists, but not black ones.

Agreed.

CosmosDan said:
He said that anyone who didn’t grow up black in the 50s and 60s ought to cut the guy some slack.

Black in the south, I’d agree. Clarence Thomas, for instance, or Condi Rice would have good reason for a chip on their shoulder. But Wright didn’t grow up like that. He grew up in Philly, in a middle to upper middle class family.

Pablo said:
Black in the south, I’d agree. Clarence Thomas, for instance, or Condi Rice would have good reason for a chip on their shoulder. But Wright didn’t grow up like that. He grew up in Philly, in a middle to upper middle class family.

Guess he’s just a hater then.

Pablo said:
Not until he absolutely had to, and even then he tried to sell the notion that he had no idea Wright was such a pig.

I’ll bet you believed him, didn’t you?

The president is the president for all the racists and non racists of all colors. May I ask how much of Wright’s work and words you’ve actually examined? It seems to easy and pretty dishonest to pull a few words out of a man’s life to make him look as bad as possible. I listened to an entire sermon that one of the infamous clips was pulled from. That clip was the least important part and not the main thrust of the message. I don’t condone Wright’s racist moments but neither do I judge him or Obama based on those few clips. It doesn’t make sense or seem reasonable to judge that way.

Oh, but he’s so much more than that.

And if Reverend Wright thinks that that’s political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn’t know me very well. And based on his remarks yesterday, well, I may not know him as well as I thought either.

Guess who?

I don’t condone Wright’s racist moments but neither do I judge him or Obama based on those few clips. It doesn’t make sense or seem reasonable to judge that way.

It does when you’re talking about a preacher, a leader of men, a man of God, a shepherd of the flock, etc… I don’t condone people who preach hate, period. In fact, I give ‘em the stinkeye.

CosmosDan said:
May I ask how much of Wright’s work and words you’ve actually examined?

Good question.

paulmdoro said:
Folks, believe it or not, Beck is fallible. He is capable of being wrong.

From the Catholic magazine America:

“Liberation theology is not Marxism disguised as religion. It is Christianity presented in all its disturbing fullness.”

As a result of its Marxist leanings, Liberation Theology as practiced by the bishops and priests of South America was criticized in the 1980s by the Catholic hierarchy, from Pope John Paul on down. The top hierarchy of the Catholic Church accused liberation theologians of supporting violent revolutions and outright Marxist class struggle. This perversion is usually the result of a humanist view of man being codified into Church Doctrine by zealous priests and bishops and explains why the Catholic top hierarchy now wants to separate itself from Marxist doctrine and revolution.

In August, 1984 Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) stated that liberation theology has a major flaw in that it attempts to apply Christ’s teaching on the sermon on the mount regarding the poor to present social situations.Ratzinger believes that Christ’s teaching on the poor means that we will be judged when we die, and at the final judgment, with particular attention to how we personally have treated the poor.

Another aberration in liberation theology, according to Cardinal Ratzinger, is that the spiritual concept of the Church as “People of God” is transformed into a “Marxist myth.” In liberation theology, the “people is the antithesis of the hierarchy, the antithesis of all institutions, which are seen as oppressive powers. Ultimately anyone who participates in the class struggle is a member of the “people”; the “Church of the people” becomes the antagonist of the hierarchical Church.”

Anything can be twisted or abused or misused though right?

Cosmos, when Wright presents Farrakhan with an award for being such a great guy, I think that’s a little beyond ‘a few clips’.

Pablo said:
Black in the south, I’d agree. Clarence Thomas, for instance, or Condi Rice would have good reason for a chip on their shoulder. But Wright didn’t grow up like that. He grew up in Philly, in a middle to upper middle class family.

So he didn’t experience any racism in Philly? He didn’t see the results of racism in the black community as a whole. I’m not excusing the man. From my own research it seems that the media purposely focused on the worst, Not a fair or balanced judgment IMO. More than that it’s not reasonable to think we can know what Obama believes and thinks based on a few carefully selected negative quotes from Wright or Cone.

CosmosDan said:
So he didn’t experience any racism in Philly?

Probably. But nowhere hear as much as one would experience sitting in his congregation.

Cosmos, you’re making it sound like Wright accidentally let a word or two slip several years ago, and has been careful ever since. That’s not quite the case.

Pablo said:
Probably. But nowhere hear as much as one would experience sitting in his congregation.

What was it like to sit in his congregation? Were you uncomfortable?

It’s amazing that everyone followed Beck’s diversion. Gibbs wasn’t even arguing about whether or not Liberation Theology is mainstream, he just said the Obama’s beliefs are mainstream. We are all accepting Beck’s assertion that the president believes in Liberation Theology as a given, when in fact it could be much more complicated.

I guess I’m naive, but I thought this country believed in a separation of church and state?

From my own research it seems that the media purposely focused on the worst, Not a fair or balanced judgment IMO.

What media? Hannity? I’ll give you Hannity. How about anybody that wasn’t on Fox?

DanR said:
It’s amazing that everyone followed Beck’s diversion.

I hate to break this to you but this has been an open discussion long before Glenn Beck started talking about it.

Pablo said:
I hate to break this to you but this has been an open discussion long before Glenn Beck started talking about it.

Do you see a direct relationship between Obama’s religious beliefs and his policies?

CosmosDan said:
More than that it’s not reasonable to think we can know what Obama believes and thinks based on a few carefully selected negative quotes from Wright or Cone.

Hey, did you try reading his books? There’s one where he talks quite a bit about Wright and theology. There could be clues!!

Pablo said:
It does when you’re talking about a preacher, a leader of men, a man of God, a shepherd of the flock, etc… I don’t condone people who preach hate, period. In fact, I give ‘em the stinkeye.

If someone’s entire life and the the balance of good and bad they’ve done can be so easily dismissed by a few moments,then you have a lot of condemning others ahead of you. If people are indeed made that easily guilty by association we are all in serious trouble. Perhaps you can just as readily condemn Beck for his association with John Hagee. I’d don’t think that’s a good way to go.

paulmdoro said:
Do you see a direct relationship between Obama’s religious beliefs and his policies?

Did you like his American Apology Tour?

CosmosDan said:
If someone’s entire life and the the balance of good and bad they’ve done can be so easily dismissed by a few moments,then you have a lot of condemning others ahead of you.

So, you missed the part about being a preacher, then?

Pablo said:
Did you like his American Apology Tour?

And to think I expected a thoughtful answer. Silly me. I just wondered if you believe his religious beliefs are directly influencing his policies, and if so, some examples. My bad.

I’m sorry you missed what was staring you right in the face, paul. That happens a lot, doesn’t it?

Pablo said:
I’m sorry you missed what was staring you right in the face, paul. That happens a lot, doesn’t it?

You equate one word or one sentence responses with thoughtful answers? That happens a lot, doesn’t it?

Pablo said:
followed

Not sure I understand, I wasn’t saying that Beck was the only person talking about Obama’s faith, I meant that his response to Gibbs’ statement distracted everyone from what Gibbs was saying. Gibbs never said anything about whether Liberation Theology was mainstream, only that Obama’s beliefs are mainstream. Beck’s response ignored this and took for granted that Obama is a Liberation Theologist. Gibbs was debating that Obama’s beliefs are mainstream, Beck was arguing that Liberation Theology is not. Beck, and everyone else on this chain, made the jump that Obama is a confirmed subscriber to Liberation Theology.

So Obama listening to black liberation theology for twenty years, at his church, has nothing to do with Obama’s ‘mainstream’ Christian beliefs. Oooookay.

Beck totally misunderstands liberation theology the way you’d expect a college drop-out to misunderstand something an extremist doesn’t understand: with deceit and fear-mongering.

http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2010/08/is-glenn-beck-turning-over-new-leaf.html

Beck doesn’t know what kind of Christian Obama is; he’s a convincing ignorant, yellow propagandist.

That anyone follows his shows just how under-educated some Americans are. Sad.

More Liberty says: “I mean we can never have to many kool-aid drinkers.”

You always struck me as a Limbaugh fan. Thanks for confirming my suspicions about you.

Limbaugh is another uneducated liar with a gift for convincing the gullible undereducated Americans.

Liberty, next time you want to make an impression, don’t use a Limbaugh expression. To just showed us all of your cards.

writer said:
So Obama listening to black liberation theology for twenty years, at his church, has nothing to do with Obama’s ‘mainstream’ Christian beliefs. Oooookay.

Why would you look at a church a guy spent his entire adult life at, and the Pastor he called a mentor and who inspired the title of his book if you want to get at his Christian beliefs (aside from the fact that he doesn’t talk about them anymore)? That’s just crazy!

If Obama had attended some other church believing in black liberation theology, where the pastor merely stuck to that combined with religion, it would be a different matter. The fact that Obama spent twenty years getting his black liberation theology from a fire-breathing racist somewhat changes it.

DanR said:
Not sure I understand, I wasn’t saying that Beck was the only person talking about Obama’s faith, I meant that his response to Gibbs’ statement distracted everyone from what Gibbs was saying. Gibbs never said anything about whether Liberation Theology was mainstream, only that Obama’s beliefs are mainstream. Beck’s response ignored this and took for granted that Obama is a Liberation Theologist. Gibbs was debating that Obama’s beliefs are mainstream, Beck was arguing that Liberation Theology is not. Beck, and everyone else on this chain, made the jump that Obama is a confirmed subscriber to Liberation Theology.

Again, that’s not a new jump, and it isn’t Beck’s jump. See Rev. Wright on Hannity & Colmes, March 1, 2007. If you then note the long and close relationship between Obama and Wright, it seems evidentiary.

What you on the right don’t get is that no one but Obama and maybe Michelle and his spiritual advisors know what the President’s beliefs are. Beck is making assumptions, and he’s very comfortable making an ass of himself in the process. In fact, he revels in it; so it’s not surprising to see ignorant speculation pass as informed opinion here on the new AOL. On second thought, there are a few more adults posting comments here than what we used to see on AOL, the troglodyte channel of America.

As an atheist, I wish all y’all would shut the hell up about religion. Who cares what the President believes so long as he does his job properly?

The same people screeching about Obama’s religion give Sarah Palin and her world conquest Christian Sharia theology a pass.

It’s all about the melanin, folks.

It would be like someone attending a Methodist church for twenty years, and then someone else assuming the person is a Methodist. What a leap!

writer said:
It would be like someone attending a Methodist church for twenty years, and then someone else assuming the person is a Methodist. What a leap!

Not really. Try again please.

writer says: “It would be like someone attending a Methodist church for twenty years, and then someone else assuming the person is a Methodist.”

I was brought up a northern Baptist, but after I left the church on contemplated god for many years, I because a Unitarian Universalist. Assuming is what’s making Beck and supporters of Beck’s assumptions asses.

It’s plebeian.

Too bad Obama didn’t ‘contemplate’ till he was running for president.

Assuming is what’s making Beck and supporters of Beck’s assumptions asses.

Bzzzzzt. The answer to the question is not “Glenn Beck.”

It’s plebeian.

Yeah, you tell those stupid plebes. Commoners are just so damnably common.

writer said:
Cosmos, when Wright presents Farrakhan with an award for being such a great guy, I think that’s a little beyond ‘a few clips’.

That’s one of the clips. Once again. I’m not defending Wright. I’m just saying that people are often a mix of good and bad. He also served in the Marines, and has been widely praised for much of his work. Do we focus on just the bad or do we accept him as a flawed human like most of us?

Pablo said:
Probably. But nowhere hear as much as one would experience sitting in his congregation.

So how many sermons did you listen to all the way through to come to this judgment?

writer said:
It would be like someone attending a Methodist church for twenty years, and then someone else assuming the person is a Methodist. What a leap!

It’s more like someone believing that all Methodists believe exactly the same thing ,or that people are incapable of listening to a minister and embracing some things and rejecting others.

Those kind of sweeping generalities are unrealistic and unhelpful.

Timothy Wright said:
I know, it is asking a lot but perhaps if teabaggers read and thought and took this in context it might make more sense:

I stopped reading your post at this point. Maybe if you wouldn’t use a derogatory term to describe many citizens in our country, I might read what you say and take it in context.

CosmosDan said:
It’s more like someone believing that all Methodists believe exactly the same thing ,or that people are incapable of listening to a minister and embracing some things and rejecting others.

Those kind of sweeping generalities are unrealistic and unhelpful.

Well-said.

Darklady said:
As an atheist, I wish all y’all would shut the hell up about religion. Who cares what the President believes so long as he does his job properly?

The same people screeching about Obama’s religion give Sarah Palin and her world conquest Christian Sharia theology a pass.

That seems fair though, cause she’s pretty.
You are so correct. We shouldn’t be this distracted by religion

So Cosmos, in twenty years, Obama was unable to find an ‘unflawed’ pastor in a city the size of Chicago.

I hope I live to see someone who is openly atheist elected president of this country.

Darklady said:
As an atheist, I wish all y’all would shut the hell up about religion

Fortunalely, you don’t run the website, so I guess we can talk about what we please.

CosmosDan said:
So how many sermons did you listen to all the way through to come to this judgment?

It’s been asked more than once and so far has gone unanswered. We just have to take his word that he’s done extensive research and knows what he’s claiming.

Pablo said:
Again, that’s not a new jump, and it isn’t Beck’s jump. See Rev. Wright on Hannity & Colmes, March 1, 2007. If you then note the long and close relationship between Obama and Wright, it seems evidentiary.

That’s a valid point but realistically there’s no reason to believe Obama and Wright believe exactly the same things or that Obama embraced every part of BLT. Beck is making an argument based about Obama’s religion without really knowing what Obama believes. Even after Obama has stated otherwise. Whether you think Obama is sincere or not Beck certainly has no reason to claim he knows what Obama believes. He’s making arguments about things he clearly doesn’t know from associations that are unreasonable.

“Since Obama likes Wright and went to that church he must believe all the same things.” That’s just not a reasonable conclusion. Especially in light of Obama’s words stating otherwise.

Cosmo, I don’t know anyone named Jesus Gordon.
Lets deal in facts.
FACT……Rev. Wright says he is teaching Black Liberation Theology.
FACT……Rev. Wright says that his salvation depends on the collective salvation.
FACT…..Obama has said repeatedly that his salvationd depends on the collective salvation.

None of Bible citations Cosmo listed can not be interpeted to mean one mans salvation depends on the collective salvation. They dog won’t hunt.

GBR, I have already proved all you do is distort and lie about what Beck says. Try another website where they don’t know you.

paulmdoro said:
It’s been asked more than once and so far has gone unanswered. We just have to take his word that he’s done extensive research and knows what he’s claiming.

The lack of a specific answer gives me the information I need to weigh the fact based {or not} value of his responses.

CosmosDan said:
The lack of a specific answer gives me the information I need to weigh the fact based {or not} value of his responses.

Indeed.

gordonbloyershow said:
Cosmo, I don’t know anyone named Jesus Gordon.
Lets deal in facts.
FACT……Rev. Wright says he is teaching Black Liberation Theology.
FACT……Rev. Wright says that his salvation depends on the collective salvation.
FACT…..Obama has said repeatedly that his salvationd depends on the collective salvation.

None of Bible citations Cosmo listed can not be interpeted to mean one mans salvation depends on the collective salvation. They dog won’t hunt.

GBR, I have already proved all you do is distort and lie about what Beck says. Try another website where they don’t know you.

Blower knows theology like an infant knows quantum physics.

It’s like saying you attended Klan rallies for twenty years but didn’t agree with everything they said about race. You just went for the great picnics.

writer said:
It’s like saying you attended Klan rallies for twenty years but didn’t agree with everything they said about race. You just went for the great picnics.

Do they have good picnics?

gordonbloyershow said:
Cosmo, I don’t know anyone named Jesus Gordon.
Lets deal in facts.
FACT……Rev. Wright says he is teaching Black Liberation Theology.
FACT……Rev. Wright says that his salvation depends on the collective salvation.
FACT…..Obama has said repeatedly that his salvationd depends on the collective salvation.

None of Bible citations Cosmo listed can not be interpeted to mean one mans salvation depends on the collective salvation. They dog won’t hunt.
.

What exactly do they mean by collective salvation? I suspect you’re repeating a phrase that you don’t really understand but you’re welcome to correct me.
What the Bible does say is that if we say we love Jesus and our fellow man, but don’t demonstrate that through our actions towards others, it’s just lip service. If we claim we’re “saved” but don’t take care of those in need we’re fooling ourselves. That’s what I think they mean by collective salvation. The very words of Christ. I may be wrong. My research has been limited. feel free to show me.

paulmdoro said:
Do they have good picnics?

There’s usually a nice bonfire

writer said:
So Cosmos, in twenty years, Obama was unable to find an ‘unflawed’ pastor in a city the size of Chicago.

Do you seriously think one exists anywhere?

Varying degrees of being flawed. I think Obama could have done a little better if he’d tried.

writer said:
It’s like saying you attended Klan rallies for twenty years but didn’t agree with everything they said about race. You just went for the great picnics.

It’s like saying you went to a church in the south where you occasionally heard racist or homophobic remarks but more often heard a very positive message that you decided was worthwhile.

Why are you so determined to judge Wright as harshly as possible based on a very limited view of the man and his life?

Don’t know about the picnics, paul. I do know that the Klan hates Jews and is for segregation. The black Muslims hate Jews and are for segregation. The difference is, the left finds it embarrassing to ever mention the black Muslims. Very politically incorrect.

writer said:
Don’t know about the picnics, paul. I do know that the Klan hates Jews and is for segregation. The black Muslims hate Jews and are for segregation. The difference is, the left finds it embarrassing to ever mention the black Muslims. Very politically incorrect.

If you say so. I’m sure you know what you’re talking about.

writer said:
Varying degrees of being flawed. I think Obama could have done a little better if he’d tried.

and that’s a judgment you make with very little information. I listened to an entire sermon from Wright. One that one of his infamous clips was lifted from. Out of the hour or so those few seconds were the only negative part. He spoke eloquently with a very positive message for 98% of the time. I never rejected a person completely for not liking 2% of what they say.

Just think realistically about people you know. Are some occasionally hateful? Do they have some excellent qualities you appreciate but some you find objectionable? Real people are not usually one dimensional cartoon characters. It’s not helpful for us to let the media get away with presenting them that way, and buying into it.

Time prevents me from listing the pages and pages of racist quotes from Louis Farrakhan, or all the instances of Wright buddying up to him. And in a city the size of Chicago, I just find it curious that Obama couldn’t find a church without all of the racial rhetoric.

writer said:
Don’t know about the picnics, paul. I do know that the Klan hates Jews and is for segregation. The black Muslims hate Jews and are for segregation. The difference is, the left finds it embarrassing to ever mention the black Muslims. Very politically incorrect.

When their attitudes are relevant to some issue I have no problem discussing it. Generally I have no reason to give them or the Klan a 2nd thought. I believe I,pointed out that your Klan analogy is really inaccurate.

Poor Cosmo, we now know how confused you are.

When Wright and Obama talk about “collective salvation” they mean it is their responsibility to save you to save themselves.

Jesus meant that YOU individually have the responsibility to do these things for others to save YOURSELF. YOU are not dependent on those others salvation for your own salvation.

Is that simple enough for you or do I have to dumb it down even more?

The above comments are not an indication of anything I may believe, they are an explaination for dumb people like Cosmo.

Cosmos, what was inaccurate? Attending Klan meetings for twenty years, then saying you never heard any racist comments, is pretty similar to Obama attending the church of a racist pastor for twenty years, then saying he didn’t hear any racist comments. The only difference is, you’re on the political left, and that means that while white racism never gets the benefit of the doubt, black racism always does.

writer said:
Time prevents me from listing the pages and pages of racist quotes from Louis Farrakhan, or all the instances of Wright buddying up to him. And in a city the size of Chicago, I just find it curious that Obama couldn’t find a church without all of the racial rhetoric.

all what? You really have no idea , out of a 20 year span, how much racial rhetoric Obama heard do you? I took the time to listen to an entire sermon and found very little. A lot of Wrights infamous quotes were not racist at all.
Recognizing and loudly condemning racism in America is not inherently racist.

Wright’s Trumpet Magazine giving Farrakhan an award isn’t ancient history. If Wright’s and Farrakhan’s views aren’t alike, why would Wright do that?

writer said:
Cosmos, what was inaccurate? Attending Klan meetings for twenty years, then saying you never heard any racist comments, is pretty similar to Obama attending the church of a racist pastor for twenty years, then saying he didn’t hear any racist comments. The only difference is, you’re on the political left, and that means that while white racism never gets the benefit of the doubt, black racism always does.

It isn’t a valid comparison. You really have no idea exactly what portion of what was said at Trinity could be construed as racist. Percentage wise, what portion of Wrights sermons were racist talk? Do you know? Have any evidence? You’re comparing a church where occasionally racist comments were heard, to a non church that is explicitly racist. Not a valid comparison.

Jesus! What would Jesus think of most of today’s Christians. He’d be horrified to see what has been done in his name. Needless wars, rampant greed, blatant hypocrisy, slavery – all of this usually blessed by Christian leaders throughout the ages as well as today. Liberation Theology was initially supported by the Catholic Church until they saw that the activist priests and nuns practicing this pure Christian faith were serious about alleviating suffering, hunger and violence especially in poor countries in Central and South America. A goodly number of these priests and nuns were killed by Reagan’s ‘Freedom Fighters’. To me and I think a lot of other people Jesus was a very liberal and progressive figure who would be crucified yet again if there were a second coming. The current discussion about Obama’s religion is another extraordinary piece of hypocrisy.. You judge a person by his actions not his religion and it’s truly tragic that so many Obama haters are caught up in their own bs and are totally incapable of seeing what’s really happening before their eyes. Obama is a very decent, highly intelligent person who has the best interests of all of us at heart. History will judge him favorably which is more than one can say about the rabble rousing hordes who had no problem in supporting the good Christian Bush’s immoral wars or his enriching the already rich at the expense of the rest of us.

writer said:
Wright’s Trumpet Magazine giving Farrakhan an award isn’t ancient history. If Wright’s and Farrakhan’s views aren’t alike, why would Wright do that?

Fortunately, Obama is free of Wright and Farrakhan. I will leave it to you to surmise the damage that was done, but that is over now. Has been for a couple years. Aware of Wright, the population voted for Obama. Its lame to continue with that. On the other hand, Beck, who currently is cover of Time Magazine material, with the crowds, the dreams and the ratings, and the books, and the radio show, and is engaged in a leadership role with an organization called: “The Black Robes”, and he is palling around with famous anti-Catholics, and Moonies. All this time, right in front of us, Gog, and MaGog. The Beast is always the last person you suspect.

No, Cosmos. I don’t have a percentage of how many of Wright’s sermons were racist. But almost every word out of Farrakhan’s mouth is racist, and Wright agrees with him. Sees him as a friend. Gives him awards. I’m going by that.

valk, Obama didn’t ‘free’ himself of Wright till he was running for president and figured he might be a liability.

writer said:
Wright’s Trumpet Magazine giving Farrakhan an award isn’t ancient history. If Wright’s and Farrakhan’s views aren’t alike, why would Wright do that?

I don’t know, and neither do you. Obama very clearly objected to that and all anti-Semitic remarks and the award itself. Look, I have some friends and relatives who are conservative, liberal, libertarian, conspiracy theorists, believers, agnostics and atheists. I don’t reject them as humans and friends because they sometimes espouse beliefs I don’t like. That’s what Obama was trying to say about Wright in his speech on racism. It’s just ridiculous to infer that Obama must believe everything Wright believes. Beck is just riding the controversy for ratings. People should understand that and judge accordingly. Judge the president by his own words and actions, not Wright’s. Doesn’t that seem reasonable?

writer said:
valk, Obama didn’t ‘free’ himself of Wright till he was running for president and figured he might be a liability.

He didn’t need to until the media machine created a false guilt by association scenario.

writer said:
No, Cosmos. I don’t have a percentage of how many of Wright’s sermons were racist. But almost every word out of Farrakhan’s mouth is racist, and Wright agrees with him. Sees him as a friend. Gives him awards. I’m going by that.

So Obama is guilty by association by another association. Regardless of his own words and actions. I’m guessing you wouldn’t appreciate being judged that way, I know I wouldn’t.

Cosmos, you seem to be equating voluntarily listening to someone for twenty years with bumping into someone once or twice. I think after twenty years, it’s more than ‘guilt by association’.

writer said:
valk, Obama didn’t ‘free’ himself of Wright till he was running for president and figured he might be a liability.

So you admit he is now free?

Yeah, valk. Wright had to look up at him from under the bus.

Jesussah, will you define “Mainstream Christianity” for us, please?? I mean, it’s been a couple thousand years or so. And we’ve had lotsa different Popes, Falwell, Swaggart, Robertson, BushDrunks, et al. Thx.

writer said:
Cosmos, you seem to be equating voluntarily listening to someone for twenty years with bumping into someone once or twice. I think after twenty years, it’s more than ‘guilt by association’.

I’m not doing that. I’m making a judgment based on actually listening to one of Wrights sermons all the way through, and an effort to judge people reasonably and fairly. Maybe Obama was willing to overlook occasional comments that you or I would not. So what? That doesn’t mean he agreed with them.
IMO you’re making an unreasonable leap based on pretty limited information. It’s America. You”re allowed to do that.

gordonbloyershow said:
Poor Cosmo, we now know how confused you are.

When Wright and Obama talk about “collective salvation” they mean it is their responsibility to save you to save themselves.

Jesus meant that YOU individually have the responsibility to do these things for others to save YOURSELF. YOU are not dependent on those others salvation for your own salvation.

Is that simple enough for you or do I have to dumb it down even more?

Sure Gordon that’s simple enough. It just doesn’t include any actual evidence. Do you have any? Instead of a quote of someone using the phrase “collective salvation” how about a quote of someone credible , explaining what it means. Again, I may be wrong so I’ll make an attempt to look it up myself.

writer said:
Cosmos, you seem to be equating voluntarily listening to someone for twenty years with bumping into someone once or twice. I think after twenty years, it’s more than ‘guilt by association’.

We know it has nothing to do with the number of years, because Obama’s relatively casual relationship with Ayers has been Hannity fodder for going on three years. Maybe a couple of social gatherings, a board meeting or two. How much time has Glenn spent with Hagee? He’s featured front and center at Glenn’s rally. Have they “prayed” together?

writer said:
Yeah, valk. Wright had to look up at him from under the bus.

Well I am glad Obama is now free. But we have to work on Glenn and Hagee. That’s an ongoing relationship.

Ann Coulter’s latest column is the funniest ever. My sides hurt from laughing.

Read it, if you don’t laugh you are a liberal.

OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM
September 1, 2010
http://www.anncoulter.com/

The clips of Obama and Wright saying those very words have been played over and over. Try YouTube. You might watch Becks show he always plays them just before he repeats them to prove they said them. Obama has said it many times.

gordonbloyershow said:
The clips of Obama and Wright saying those very words have been played over and over. Try YouTube. You might watch Becks show he always plays them just before he repeats them to prove they said them. Obama has said it many times.

Gordon, I don’t doubt that Obama used the term collective salvation. My question is how Beck knows what he means when he says that? Does Black liberation theology teach what you just described or what Beck is describing? If so, where’s the evidence? I just looked to see if I could find it and I couldn’t find any site on Liberation Theology that described collective salvation. For Beck to define it, and describe it as outside the mainstream he has to have some sort of definition provided by someone who endorses liberation theology. Otherwise it appears he is just making stuff up.

GlennBeckReview said:
Beck will never accept a challenge to a debate

And you say this after praising Olbermann??
Again GBR is the biggest hypocrite on this site

I love good irony. While searching for information on “collective salvation” and liberation theology in general I stumbled on this article titled;
Bush’s Failed Liberation Theology
from November 2006. Long before Rev Wright made Liberation Theology a topic of national discussion.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/11/14/bushs_failed_liberation_theology.php

Isn’t it ironic that most of the folks who are denouncing Obams’s supposed liberation theology as Marxist supported the Liberation theology of former President Bush when he decided we must free the oppressed in Iraq, at gunpoint. Forcing people to pay taxes to help the poor is Marxist , and fascist. Ordering thousands of people to kill and be killed for the sake of Liberation is okay. Quite a thing to contemplate isn’t it?

GBR said to More Liberty
Liberty, next time you want to make an impression, don’t use a Limbaugh expression. To just showed us all of your cards.

GlennBeckReview said:
I was brought up a northern Baptist, but after I left the church on contemplated god for many years, I because a Unitarian Universalist

Just showed your cards too.
Too easy.

Glenn Beck’s theology is based on First Century Christianity, not Fourth Century Creeds. For example, the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views on Baptism, Lay Ministry, the Trinity, Theosis, Grace vs. Works, the Divinity of Jesus Christ comport closely with Early Christianity And Mormons’ teenagers have been judged to “top the charts” in Christian Characteristics by a UNC-Chapel Hill study. Read about it here:

http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com

Those who would denigrate Glenn Beck’s religion, usually have an ulterior motive. 11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were non-Trinitarian Christians. Those who insist on a narrow definition of Christianity are doing our Republic an injustice

MichelleF said:

Black Liberation Theology, originally intended to help the black community, may have actually hurt many blacks by promoting racial tension, victimology, and Marxism which ultimately leads to more oppression. As the failed “War on Poverty” has exposed, the best way to keep the blacks perpetually enslaved to government as “daddy” is to preach victimology, Marxism, and to seduce blacks into thinking that upward mobility is someone else’s responsibility in a free society.

I think the Civil Rights Act of 1964 actually hurt blacks as well by making them believe they were being discriminated against.
It’s interesting that the idea of liberating the poor in our own country is called Marxism and Fascism but the what it has cost, and continues to cost to liberate Iraq is somehow justified.
People aren’t perfect. That includes Christians of any color.

Bot said:

Those who would denigrate Glenn Beck’s religion, usually have an ulterior motive. 11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were non-Trinitarian Christians. Those who insist on a narrow definition of Christianity are doing our Republic an injustice

So, by Beck denigrating our President;s religion he doing our Republic an injustice. I got it. I agree.

How “mainstream Christian” are Mormons?

I still find it amazingly surreal to see Liberals defending a Theology.

How Liberation Theology affected Latin America is relevant history. Therefore, it isn’t surprising that they would try to corrupt church’s here in the US as well. You can’t tear apart the Capitalist system if people don’t resent it en masse.

Liberation theology and Gramsci are both determined to persuade people to identify themselves according to their economic status. Poor people, in particular, must be induced to think of themselves first and only as poor people. Moreover, the poor ought to feel resentment toward the rich and to blame the rich for their poverty.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=643&CFID=20134978&CFTOKEN=10462333

Liberation theology addresses economic and social issues by promoting divisions in society and by encouraging envy. This does nothing to ameliorate material deprivation. Chilean bishops told their people, “if their reconciliation with God is sincere, it should have fraternal consequences.” Fostering a culture of sacrifice, fellowship, austerity and sharing material goods will do much more to help people than the pronouncements of liberationists (Radio Chilena 1987).

Hmmm. Faith, Hope, and Charity. Where have I heard that lately?

Becks Obsession with Black Liberation Theology; thoroughly justified: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/becks_obsession_with_black_lib.html

AngelPeters said:
Would love to see Beck and Press have a discussion of what Liberation theology is and what it is not. Would be very educational for all who are parroting this phrase as if they understand what they are talking about.

Wouldn’t it be better if you actually did the research and found out for yourself instead of letting people tell you what it means?

fnordlord said:
How “mainstream Christian” are Mormons?

For that matter, how mainstream Christians are Greek Orthodox….Hey WAIT, that’s me.

CosmosDan said:
Gordon, I don’t doubt that Obama used the term collective salvation. My question is how Beck knows what he means when he says that? Does Black liberation theology teach what you just described or what Beck is describing? If so, where’s the evidence? I just looked to see if I could find it and I couldn’t find any site on Liberation Theology that described collective salvation. For Beck to define it, and describe it as outside the mainstream he has to have some sort of definition provided by someone who endorses liberation theology. Otherwise it appears he is just making stuff up.

Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1YFpmPP5gY

Mr B said:
I still find it amazingly surreal to see Liberals defending a Theology.

Becks Obsession with Black Liberation Theology; thoroughly justified: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/becks_obsession_with_black_lib.html

There are a lot of liberal believers, but it’s not just about defending a theology. It’s about defending the facts and pointing out correctly that Beck quickly violated the principles he spouted on Saturday. Pleading for truth he parades his black robe group out as a symbol of religious unity , touting various Christians , including John Hagee, Rabbis and Imams. Sunday he criticizes a Christian theology, Why? Only in order to criticize the president and keep using his favorite scare words. I guess his principles don’t last long when it’s time to shoot for ratings.
Regardless of your personal opinion of this or any theology the fact remains that BLT is Christian with belief in Christ as savior. Their beliefs are rooted in an interpretation of the words of Jesus in the New Testament as much as any other Christians. You can find outrageous statements from Cone’s decades old book and Wright’s sermons but what Beck can’t do is show that Obama embraces those specific statements. All he or the writer of your link seems to have is a mention of “collective salvation” and some claim that Christianity rejects this notion. Here’s the problem in doing that. What specifically does collective salvation mean to Obama , or even to Liberation theology? Provide some kind of credible definition by someone who is not a critic. Otherwise Beck and your article’s author are just making things up, or at best offering an uninformed opinion.
In my reading of Obama’s words Obama could easily mean that we have a social and spiritual responsibility to look out for our fellow human beings. That fits perfectly with the words of Jesus in the New Testament.

OH HECK..Please tell me now and forever…. since in “Glenbeckistan” no Christians but Glen and his chronies arrive in heaven at the end…. where do the rest of us go…. straight to heck. This is what Glen and the rest of Mormans believe.

pyrope said:
Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1YFpmPP5gY

I sincerely appreciate the link. It does help me understand where Beck is coming from if I assume he’s sincere.
He seems hung up on Obama’s use of collective salvation but even in that clip he gives only his own interpretation of what Obama means and claims it’s not Christianity and it’s a grave grave perversion. There are a lot of different interpretations of the gospel and different details of doctrine in Christianity. Some would say Mormonism is a perversion and not really. Christianity. Some disagree. The same with Liberation theology. Some denounce it, some accept it as a valid form of Christianity. It seems to me that Beck is not judging as he would like t be judged. {another important tenant} It also seems that he is contradicting the very principles he praised on Saturday. A grave grave, contradiction. He gets his black rode group up on stage to celebrate and plead for religious unity. That includes some that don’t believe in Jesus as savior at all. Is not believing in Jesus a grave perversion? Including John Hagee. Can we go through a bunch of Hagee’s sermons and see if we find anything as outrageous as Wright or Cone has said? How can you make a big show of principles one day and then violate them so quickly and still have credibility. Is he judging Obama and liberation theology the same as he judged that group of ministers on stage with him with all their varied beliefs. Sure doesn’t seem like it.
I find the term “collective salvation” and the way Obama used it, to be perfectly compatible with the words of Jesus and other passages.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 25:35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41″Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Luke 4:Luke 4:18
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,

James 2:15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

These passages seem to offer a Bible based interpretation of collective salvation. You can’t be saved by believing in Jesus and then ignoring the needs of the people around you. It has to be reflected in your actions.
Beck seems to making up his own definition of collective salvation and then acting as if his interpretation must be what Obama believes. That’s not reasonable or fair judgment .

OH somewhere East of Eden in a dark cave, in a high desert nightmare, somewhere where nothing grows… two men sit in this cave and plot the destruction of the infidels, those Americans, who imagine a world in which people can worship as they wish. OH my goodness….. as we watch … they speak…. “OK Rupert, how can we destroy America? Well … My son… we can always make the afraid of each other. We can make them hate each other… we can by innuendo and suggestion… make them think that other citizens are their enemies. Oh yes… let them fear Americans who differ from them and allow us “those who ar right with God” to destroy them.

Welcome to Glenbeckistan

Poor Cosmo, you doubted Obama said “collective salvation”. You went on and on how Beck was a liar and yet you had never heard Obama say it time and time again. Now that you have seen him say those words and the meaning is CLEAR, you babble on trying to alter the meaning to fit your beliefs. Typical lib.

Let me make this clear, I don’t care about any of this stuff. I just don’t like libs lying about anyone. When they lie about Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Bush, Reagan, Nixon, Rove, Atwater or anyone else I will defend them even if I don’t care for them myself. I have even defended Obama in the birther matter. The fact is libs lie a lot. I have been critical of Bush about immigration, education and failing to veto spending but he is right on Iraq and Afghanistan and I will point out the liberal lies every chance I get. I defend Obama on Iraq and Afghanistan.

You on the other hand see what Obama says before your eyes and you still won’t admit what he is. He is now and always has been a socialist.

paulmdoro said:
It’s been asked more than once and so far has gone unanswered. We just have to take his word that he’s done extensive research and knows what he’s claiming.

No, I’m not deaf is the thing. Where do you get the notion that unless you sit in his church and listen to lots of his sermons from beginning to end that you can’t know what he’s saying? Does he wrap up his racist rants with “Hey, I was just kidding about all that!” Of course not.

To answer your question, I’ve listen to several of his sermons and read others. How many have YOU listened to, and what do you think you know that I don’t because of it?

gordonbloyershow said:
Poor Cosmo, you doubted Obama said “collective salvation”. You went on and on how Beck was a liar and yet you had never heard Obama say it time and time again. Now that you have seen him say those words and the meaning is CLEAR, you babble on trying to alter the meaning to fit your beliefs. Typical lib.

Yeah, but did you hear every single word he’s ever said, in person? No? Well, you don’t know anything then!!!!!

CosmosDan said:
There are a lot of different interpretations of the gospel and different details of doctrine in Christianity.

Collective salvation is not one of them. Every person is responsible for their own life and their own soul and will be judged according to their own actions according to any mainstream Christianity. Collective salvation is Marxism, not Christianity.

Cosmo and other Bush haters, the biggest lie about George Bush is the lie about his service in National Guard. I did extensive research and wrote the following article. It proves beyond ANY doubt that the libs are liars.

http://americandaily.com/article/4807

CosmosDan said:
Sunday he criticizes a Christian theology, Why?

Did he criticize it, or simply identify it?

When Dan Rather tried to extend the lies about the Bush guard service I wrote this………..

…………….http://americandaily.com/article/5119

http://americandaily.com/article/5119

valk, since Beck hasn’t associated with Hagee for twenty years, perhaps he can just throw him under a mini-van.

gordonbloyershow said:
Poor Cosmo, you doubted Obama said “collective salvation”. You went on and on how Beck was a liar and yet you had never heard Obama say it time and time again. Now that you have seen him say those words and the meaning is CLEAR, you babble on trying to alter the meaning to fit your beliefs. Typical lib.

Gordon; If you go back and read my words directed to you you’ll see that I said “I don’t doubt that Obama used the term collective salvation.” I’m going say you made a mistake because unlike you I don’t rush to call people liars. I would appreciate it if you would be decent enough to acknowledge your mistake. I never doubted or denied Obama used that term.
I appreciate the clips provided and it does help me understand where Beck is coming from but nothing was made clear. It’s still opinion rather than fact and that’s an important difference.

Let me make this clear, I don’t care about any of this stuff. I just don’t like libs lying about anyone.

That’s fine. I’m not fond of lying either. Try to use the same standard of judgment for everyone. There’s a difference between an intentional lie, and an honest mistake and an opinion is not a lie. An opinion is also not a fact, but opinions can be supported or made weaker by pertinent facts. If you don’t care about religion or religious doctrine that’s also okay. If you don’t understand about points of doctrine then it’s hard to knowledgeably argue for Beck on this. Beck is talking about a specific point of religious doctrine {collective salvation} and calling it a grave perversion and not mainstream Christianity. On points of doctrine the person or group who hold the belief should be the ones defining the details of that belief. For example;
If you want to know what a Mormon believes about the Book of Mormon you let that Mormon, or Mormons as a group define the belief. You don’t go to a Baptist who doesn’t like Mormons and accept his definition as factual. That’s not reasonable, fair, or smart. What’s happening here is that Beck takes a phrase the president used several times and he defines the belief. He has nothing from the president to back up his claim. He’s making a strong and serious accusation with nothing to support it. Some Christians might call that bearing false witness. That’s also why it contradicts the principles he made such a spectacle of on Saturday.

The fact is libs lie a lot.

both sides lie Gordon, and politicians lie including Obama. I want to see corrupt politicians from both parties out of DC and I value honest ones from either side who have different views, but a common desire to serve and improve our nation. I have good friends who are honest hard working conservatives and I respect and value their input. We have to try harder to judge people with one standard and remember that ultimately we are one people and one nation rather than being so divided. It doesn’t help when the discussion becomes insults.

I have been critical of Bush about immigration, education and failing to veto spending but he is right on Iraq and Afghanistan and I will point out the liberal lies every chance I get. I defend Obama on Iraq and Afghanistan.

I’ll respond to this in another post.

You on the other hand see what Obama says before your eyes and you still won’t admit what he is. He is now and always has been a socialist.

I don’t deny that. We need a reasoned discussion about socialism rather than some one holding up communist and Nazi insignias for ratings. Do you pay social security? Taxes for a public school system? You’re a socialist too. We all are. The honest discussion isn’t whether socialism is the boogy man or a big scary monster. It’s a discussion about where the lines are drawn. We can’t have an honest discussion if we treat “socialist” like it’s a dirty word.

Pablo said:
Did he criticize it, or simply identify it?

Both. He tried to identify it with his criticism. What does Beck think MLK, whom he honored on Saturday, was trying to do?What do you think MLK was trying to do? He was trying to change the laws of this nation to reflect his religious beliefs about equality , specifically for black Americans , but also for everybody as humans.

You may not like the language used by Cone and Wright but that is also the essential beliefs and principles of BLT. Born in the 60s, the time of MLK they sought to bring about equality for black Americans through bringing pressure to bear on the white establishment that denied equality to them.

I suggest you read MLKs Letter from Birmingham jail. http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html . Specifically the beginning

16 April 1963
My Dear Fellow Clergymen:
While confined here in the Birmingham city jail, I came across your recent statement calling my present activities “unwise and untimely.” Seldom do I pause to answer criticism of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would have little time for anything other than such correspondence in the course of the day, and I would have no time for constructive work. But since I feel that you are men of genuine good will and that your criticisms are sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms.

I’d say Beck, after his words on Saturday and then his immediate criticism of BLT and the president the next day, is closer to the clergy that criticized MLK than he is to Rev King. Those clergy were saying that they agreed that equality was a worthy goal , but they disagreed with King’s timing and method. Beck goes a step farther than criticism. He chooses words like perversion and demonic and holds up a hammer and sickle and swastika. He tells Christians that if their church uses terms like “social justice” they should leave the church. That’s extremism that doesn’t further the discussion. Isn’t social justice the heart of what we’re discussing? We should have honest debate about exactly what policies best bring about equality and justice for all rather than painting our fellow Americans as evil, stupid, or the enemy of all that’s good.

Oh and here is another interesting fact for my fellow Christians to ponder… Glen Beck, being a Mormon, believes that we who are not Mormons, are going straight to heck when we die. So… be careful about who you entrust with your minds.

writer said:
valk, since Beck hasn’t associated with Hagee for twenty years, perhaps he can just throw him under a mini-van.

LMFAO and himself as well.

Cosmo, you are correct sir, you said, “I don’t doubt that Obama used the term collective salvation. My question is how Beck knows what he means when he says that?”

I don’t have a problem correcting a mistake in what I read. It is the same when I post something and I missed putting in a word or left out a word. The eyes deceive you. That is why there are proof readers and editors. Some of us don’t have those here.

However that does not change the fact that you apparently have never seen the tape of Obama saying that? I wonder why? Yet, you are commenting, like many others, on what Beck says on his program and apparently have not watched. So, I can only conclude that you get your info about what he says from other sources. Sorry, but those other sources LIE. Apparently you have not seen the video of Obama talking about income redistribution. That is not Christian either. He clearly wants to TAKE from the rich and give it to the poor. That is not Christian either. We did not elect Robin Hood. Socialism was tried by the Pilgrims and it almost caused them to starve to death.

If I ask someone a question, if they give me the right answer I don’t care how they get there.

Beck has the right answer about Obama and liberals, I don’t care what path he takes to get there.

If a Muslim can understand that suicide bombers are evil, I don’t care if they got the answer from Mohammed or Buddha as long as they get there. It would be a good idea if they would start yelling it from the roof tops instead of keeping it a secret.

Here is another question for Glen…. since when did Mormonism make it to the “mainstream” Christianity grouping?

Pablo said:
Collective salvation is not one of them. Every person is responsible for their own life and their own soul and will be judged according to their own actions according to any mainstream Christianity. Collective salvation is Marxism, not Christianity.

“according to their own actions” in relationship to what? toward what or who? Toward other people? Toward the poor? The sick? the hungry? That’s what I’m reading in the words of Jesus that I’ve quoted several times, and what I’m reading in BLT as well.

I repeat. Beck is claiming or at least strongly implying that “collective salvation” means the individual cannot be saved unless we are saved collectively. The problem is he hasn’t supported that definition with anything from Obama or BLT. I’m talking theological definition , not social policy, because when Beck says grave perversion of the gospel and demonic he’s into theology.
Is Obama saying we literally can’t be saved unless we are are all saved, or is he alluding to the words of Jesus I’ve posted that suggest we can’t claim to really believe in Jesus and be saved and then ignore the poor, the sick, the hungry, the oppressed? If BLT believes in Jesus as savior, and is grounded in his words it is no more perverted than any of the other religions , including his own, which Beck paraded on Saturday to call for religious unity.
Example; There’s a non denominational revival of lots of Christians where the common message is “come to Jesus. It doesn’t matter what denomination, just believe in the Lord” but away from the show of the revival the head evangelist is saying “Don’t join that one, or that one over there , it’s a perversion of the gospel”
Kinda contradicts the revival message doesn’t it? It makes the head Evangelist look insincere.

You know where you can find that story? It’s part of the story of Joseph Smith, the so called prophet who started the Mormon religion. Ask mainstream Christians if they believe Smith was really a prophet and tell what they say.

KMLake said:
Oh and here is another interesting fact for my fellow Christians to ponder… Glen Beck, being a Mormon, believes that we who are not Mormons, are going straight to heck when we die. So… be careful about who you entrust with your minds.

You really don’t know what Beck believes. If you’re going to criticize him for speaking out of turn on Obama’s beliefs it’s better if you don’t do that to him.

gordonbloyershow said:
Cosmo and other Bush haters, the biggest lie about George Bush is the lie about his service in National Guard. I did extensive research and wrote the following article. It proves beyond ANY doubt that the libs are liars.

http://americandaily.com/article/4807

I do think Bush committed some despicable acts and when he told lies to start an unnecessary war. That’s just my opinion. FDR lied to get us into WWII and sometimes that’s the burden of the office. Maybe history will change my mind about Iraq but I doubt it.
What’s on my mind now is the contrast surrounding this word “liberation”
Beck and conservatives are alarmed and very critical about Obama,, with his BLT influence, wanting to spend tax dollars to help other American citizens who are less fortunate and seek a more balanced society. He claims social justice is code for communism , while praising MLK who died fighting for social justice. He goes to extremes to demonize it and decry “wealth redistribution”
These same conservatives seemed to support spending hundreds of billions of tax dollars and thousands of American lives, liberating citizens of a country half way around the world. So why the extremes? Why is the thought of spending our tax dollars to liberate our less fortunate fellow American citizens painted as Communism and being a Nazi, while spending billions to liberate Iraq a fine and noble thing? Isn’t giving billions and billions of tax dollars to private contractors similar to “wealth redistribution”? Why is it okay to pay reparations to Iraqi’s but the suggestion of reparations to black Americans is called victim mentality and reverse racism? I’m not accusing anyone of anything. I’m just noting how our two corrupt parties and a profit driven media has succeeded in driving average Americans apart, by manipulating words and using extreme language. That needs to change. The way we communicate needs to change.

CosmosDan said:
You really don’t know what Beck believes. If you’re going to criticize him for speaking out of turn on Obama’s beliefs it’s better if you don’t do that to him.

I strongly suspect Mr. Beck mocks God daily and only believes in the money he makes from selling overpriced gold coins to frightened Americans who see danger everywhere there is something that differs from their world view. They fear any faith other than their own, they live in terror and hate, they see evil everywhere but where it actually resides… in the dark heart of Mr. Beck (and his daddy the vampire king Rupert Murdock).

Pablo said:
Black in the south, I’d agree. Clarence Thomas, for instance, or Condi Rice would have good reason for a chip on their shoulder. But Wright didn’t grow up like that. He grew up in Philly, in a middle to upper middle class family.

What does the name Frank Rizzo mean to you?

–Cobra

Get informed. Look into what Mormons believe about the rest of us. You’ll see that they believe people of any other religion are not part of their heavenly celestial family. In other words, any one who is not a Latter Day Saint is going straight to heck.

gordonbloyershow said:
Cosmo, you are correct sir, you said, “I don’t doubt that Obama used the term collective salvation. My question is how Beck knows what he means when he says that?”

I don’t have a problem correcting a mistake in what I read. It is the same when I post something and I missed putting in a word or left out a word. The eyes deceive you. That is why there are proof readers and editors. Some of us don’t have those here.

Thanks. I appreciate that. I make my own share of mistakes and try to correct them when someone points it out. We’re human and that happens.

>blockquote>However that does not change the fact that you apparently have never seen the tape of Obama saying that? I wonder why?Actually I have. I heard him say it before I told you I don’t doubt it.

Yet, you are commenting, like many others, on what Beck says on his program and apparently have not watched.

I watched a lot of his Saturday event. I watched all of a show he had on Fox with David Barton Saturday afternoon, and I watched the clip of his interview with Wallace. I try to listen to both sides of a debate , pros and cons, criticism and praise.

I recently watched two youtube clips provided on by his supporters here at mediate. One was him showing clips of Obama Cone and others and his explaining what was wrong with their words. I try to judge a person by their own words and actions and I’ve learned that a few clips selected by critics are not a balanced view.
I watched Becks show about a year ago because a conservative friend asked me to and it seemed fair and reasonable. After his big event on Saturday I’ll try to start watching him again.

gordonbloyershow said:
If I ask someone a question, if they give me the right answer I don’t care how they get there.

Comon Gordon;

How do you know if they are giving you the right answer? If you only look at one side of an issue from sources that all agree, how do you know you’re getting all the pertinent facts. It’s not hard to have an opinion but it requires effort to have an informed opinion. I’ve learned that it’s best to sincerely listen to reasonable people who I disagree with and to try and research that facts rather than accept what someone tells me. People on both sides lie, exaggerate and sometimes make honest mistakes.

KMLake said:
Get informed. Look into what Mormons believe about the rest of us. You’ll see that they believe people of any other religion are not part of their heavenly celestial family. In other words, any one who is not a Latter Day Saint is going straight to heck.

I am informed. It’s misguided to generalize and think that all Mormons believe the same thing. People don’t work that way. Unless you have a statement from Beck you don’t know what he believes.

KMLake said:
Get informed. Look into what Mormons believe about the rest of us. You’ll see that they believe people of any other religion are not part of their heavenly celestial family. In other words, any one who is not a Latter Day Saint is going straight to heck.

How many religions do you know of that don’t have as part of their doctrine that their religion is the correct path to God and the others are getting it wrong?

Cobra said:
What does the name Frank Rizzo mean to you?

–Cobra

It makes me think of Liberation Theology, and people who belong in jail like your boy Mumia. And then it makes me think of Van Jones, which in turn makes me think of Barack Obama. Why do you ask?

CosmosDan said:
Why is the thought of spending our tax dollars to liberate our less fortunate fellow American citizens painted as Communism and being a Nazi, while spending billions to liberate Iraq a fine and noble thing?

Liberate our less fortunate citizens from what, exactly? The dole is not liberating, it enslaves. What our poor people need to be liberated from is the not-so-gilded cage the Great Society has put them in. Free their minds and their ass will follow.

Ann Coulter’s recent column is soooooooooo funny. My sides still hurt from laughing.

Check it out.
http://www.anncoulter.com/

If you don’t laugh, you are a liberal.

GlennBeckReview said:
Beck will never accept a challenge to a debate. He knows that he’s not that smart and he’d get chewed up debating Mickey Mouse, much less Bill Press whose new book just arrived in the mail yesterday.

Beck is a paradox: he is courageous to be attacking the President the way he does (deceitfully), and he’s a coward about having a face to face debate.

.

After he told his listeners to leave their churches if they preached social justice he was criticized by Jim Wallis of Sojourners. Wallis asked to come on Beck’s show and discuss their disagreement. Didn’t happen. I haven’t watched Becks show in a while. Does he have discussions with decent people who disagree with him. Does he allow his audience to hear the other side of the story from an educated guest who disagrees.

Pablo said:
Liberate our less fortunate citizens from what, exactly? The dole is not liberating, it enslaves. What our poor people need to be liberated from is the not-so-gilded cage the Great Society has put them in. Free their minds and their ass will follow.

Nobody mentioned the dole. The idea behind BLT is the same one that MLK preached and campaigned for. You remember MLK? Beck praised his work on Saturday just before he called BLT perverse and demonic. There are good informed discussions to be had but Beck demonstrates he isn’t interested in that. I think Beck’s audience like the folks at the rally, are decent people with real concerns for their country. If they were sick they wouldn’t look for a snake oil salesman. Beck’s pattern shows he’s dishonest and insincere. All his pretty words on Saturday are for show. Do a little reading on James Cone and MLK and you’ll see their ideas and efforts were very similar. If an average guy can find that out spending an hour on the internet surely Beck and his staff can. His distortion of ideas, people and history, is intentional. Watch his show if you like, but swallowing what he presents as accurate is just being willingly gullible.

gordonbloyershow said:
Ann Coulter’s recent column is soooooooooo funny. My sides still hurt from laughing.

Check it out.
http://www.anncoulter.com/

If you don’t laugh, you are a liberal.

I wonder if I can get that printed on some toilet paper.

Pablo said:
How many religions do you know of that don’t have as part of their doctrine that their religion is the correct path to God and the others are getting it wrong?

Really? Is that how they all are?……that sounds like a perversion of the gospels.

Cosmo, I take it you didn’t laugh?

CosmosDan said:
Really? Is that how they all are?……that sounds like a perversion of the gospels.

Would you like to answer the question? Do Christians think there’s any path to salvation that doesn’t include Jesus Christ? Was there some point where Jesus said “Hey, just do what you feel. It’s all the same.” that I missed?

CosmosDan said:
Nobody mentioned the dole.

Would you like to answer that question, too? Liberate our less fortunate citizens from what, exactly?

“Glenn Beck” is not an answer to the question.

CosmosDan said:
Do a little reading on James Cone and MLK and you’ll see their ideas and efforts were very similar.

King was an influence on Cone, as was Malcolm X. I don’t see where Cone sounds a bit like King on basic Christianity, unity, humility or love for all of God’s children. Feel free to show me what I’ve missed.

Here is one of the great lines from her column…..

In fact, parading to church in front of the TV cameras carrying a 10-pound Bible — like a certain serial adulterer, impeached president I could name — is strongly discouraged by the creator of the universe. (“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 6.1)

gordonbloyershow said:
Cosmo, I take it you didn’t laugh?

Nope! Coulter has made a career out of mocking and derision and she takes it to a ridiculous extreme. I also hate Olberman’s “Worst Person in the World” routine for the same reason. It’s like hearing the same joke over and over. Just not funny.

gordonbloyershow said:
Here is one of the great lines from her column…..

In fact, parading to church in front of the TV cameras carrying a 10-pound Bible — like a certain serial adulterer, impeached president I could name — is strongly discouraged by the creator of the universe. (“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 6.1)

Is that just funny or do you think it actually makes some relevant point? Plenty of scandals for both parties aren’t there?

Pablo said:
King was an influence on Cone, as was Malcolm X. I don’t see where Cone sounds a bit like King on basic Christianity, unity, humility or love for all of God’s children. Feel free to show me what I’ve missed.

Here’s my response to you in the Bill Press thread ; I just finished it and it relates here as well.

At the rally Beck praised MLK who fought for social justice. The next day, and the days that followed he played clips of John Cone and associated him with Communism and reparations. He uses select clips to play guilt by association and include our president.

So, concerning how many words it takes to form an opinion. from MLK wikki page

So, Beck was praising King, whose friend and adviser had been a member of the Young Communist, and then criticizes Cone and BLT for “Marxist”

Beck praised MLK one day as being a great and noble American, and then played clips of Cone soon after suggesting something like this.
Are the words Beck presented from Cone an accurate picture of the man?
Here’s a different quote from his book that Beck quotes from.

Doesn’t it become clear to you that Beck has no intention of bringing his viewers an honest and accurate view of the issues and individuals? Doesn’t his spouting platitudes in DC one day, and contradicting them in the days that follow give you some indication of his methods and real motives?
It’s great for people to be concerned about their country and what to improve things. Let’s try to do it with accurate information and respectful honest discussion.

Pablo said:
King was an influence on Cone, as was Malcolm X. I don’t see where Cone sounds a bit like King on basic Christianity, unity, humility or love for all of God’s children. Feel free to show me what I’ve missed.

Sorry! Evidently the quotes I used in the other thread “Press challenges Beck to Liberation Theology Debate”
didn’t get included in my copy and paste. The answer to your question is there with info about Cone and MLK,

Pablo said:
Would you like to answer the question? Do Christians think there’s any path to salvation that doesn’t include Jesus Christ? Was there some point where Jesus said “Hey, just do what you feel. It’s all the same.” that I missed?

I don’t pretend to speak for Christians but BLT teaches salvation through Jesus and that worship of Jesus means helping the less fortunate since those were Christ’s specific instructions. They do not teach that the path to salvation does not include Jesus. If you have information that says they do I’d be glad to look at it.

Pablo said:
Would you like to answer that question, too? Liberate our less fortunate citizens from what, exactly?

“Glenn Beck” is not an answer to the question.

Liberate them from poverty , from a lack of health and a lack of equal opportunity. I used the term “liberate” because of the current discussion and demonetization of BLT. Certainly things have improved since the 60s when MLK campaigned for equal rights and BLT was born. That’s great! There’s a needed discussion to be had about the benefits and problems with social programs. Where are the lines drawn and what is required from taxpayes and what is required from those receiving benefits? We do need that discussion, but we need it to be grounded in reality and facts , not the distortions Beck is peddling.

correction

I meant lack of health care, rather than lack of health.

Let’s have the discussion over there.

In my opinion, Glenn Beck does believe that he is the second coming of Jesus Christ! His ego is going to explode his head one day. Beck is playing a very dangerous game. He knows exactly what he is doing and it is very ugly. However, he has his followers; I, for one, am not.

Personally, I do not care for the Evangelical or the Mormon religions; but, that’s just me. How dare I question the people of these religions for their beliefs just because I am not attracted to them. However, Beck will throw out anything to see what will stick and in this country’s current climate, religion is sticking. It’s sad. Very sad and ugly. We have Islam being denigrated and now Beck wants to bring in Black Liberation Theology.

The Bible says, “Beware of false prophets.” Beck is but one of many in our current environment! Satan is working through him and them. They have sold their souls to the devil for “30 pieces of silver” and celebrity status. The image of God nor Jesus is in anything that Beck or his cohorts do. All I see is Satan’s ugly head!!!!

I missed the part where Jesus said take money from everyone and give it to the poor?

Pablo says: “Commoners are just so damnably common”

The word I’d use for many who haven’t been to a university is gullible. Anyone who listens to Beck claim, as he did right after this clip above, to be a “conservative” and believes that doesn’t know (the opposite of ignorance) the difference between a conservative and a reactionary.

http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2010/09/glenn-beck-admits-ignorance-of-obamas.html

Gordon, Jesus never said to raise money for warriors, vets or their families either. Are you opposed to that?

Jesus was an advocate for the poor. He was poor and preached FOR poverty. As I point out in the story about Beck’s ignorance re: Obama’s faith, this President hasn’t done anything to show preferential treatment for poor people…yet.

paulmdoro says: “According to James Martin, SJ, Beck has no idea what he is talking about….”

This is true about unions, radicals, Rules for Radicals, the health care insurance reform bill, climate change science, cap and trade, the stimulus bill, etc. etc. etc. Beck, like Limbaugh, is an ignorant, reactionary blow hard who has aroused those who – like Beck – don’t have higher education and have not been politically active before. They are gullible to masterful deceit, and Glenn Beck is a masterful deceiver.

Beck’s deceits and hypocrisies and will documented and clearly proven on The Glenn Beck Review. There are millions of Americans who have not yet watched Mr. Beck and are vulnerable to his convincing deceptions. Beck is having his minions/flock/loyal followers promote his show, so it is a challenge to reach people before they, his people, do.

Please, share this URL with others, in e-mails, on websites, on Twitter, on Facebook, on blogs:
http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com

This farce, this silly, childish excuse for political discourse and commentary has gone on long enough. Thank you.

gordonbloyershow said:
I missed the part where Jesus said take money from everyone and give it to the poor?

Mat 25: 34″Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.
40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ ‘
45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
Because you asked and I’m here to help.

There is definitely a point to be made about the irony of a Mormon discussing whether Obama’s brand of Christianity is mainstream or not since as correctly noted many times here, the Mormon understanding of Christ is substantially different from mainline Christianity. So much so it is valid to state that the beliefs which cement all the various stripes of Christianity together simply don’t apply in Mormonism.

That said, however they arrive at it Mormons are to almost all outward appearances and behavior identical to Christians. I suspect Beck like other former Catholics converted to Mormonism has imported much of his religious core to his new faith and probably views the nature and divinity and role of Christ in the same way he did as a Catholic and for this reason still regards himself as a mainline Christian.

None of this obscures the fact that Obama’s presence in Wright’s Church for 20 years, his close personal relationship with him and the fact he many times referred to Wright as a mentor is all one needs to know to conclude that Obama subscribes to a radical view of Christianity, both doctrinally and socially. That Obama didnt move to break his ties with Wright long before he sought the national stage is also evidence of a man who was completely clueless about mainstream Christianity, owing in my opinion to his upbringing with an atheist mother and at least two Muslim fathers. His own autobiography points to the absence of any faith in his life until his early to mid 20′s. What I find comical is how the some will rush to defend him with the galactically lame statement that he repudiated Wright during the campaign as if that was anything other than sheer political calculation by anyones view 20 years too late.

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