There is no question that having US troops so close has embolden those seeking freedom.

careful Joe. making suggestions that would even hint at giving Bush just a whiff of credit for the fall of dictators could cause you a suspension at the very least and outright dismissal at most.

i also love that look on Mika’s face in the screenshot: ‘HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST SUCH A THING!”

According to the “researchers” at PMSNBC, Obama is deserving credit for Hurricane Irene being less devastating than predicted, the invention of the computer and the Yankees winning the 1927 World Series.

I’m certain that Saddam Hussein being gone was part of it. Less dictators to maintain control over the region helps spreads ideas of freedom. 

I was listening about foreign policy this am. He not only got that wrong. He was wrong on everything about foreign policy. When it comes to foreign policy, he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer.  

thanks tommy for proving joe’s point the left is silent on yemen and pakistan and other countries we bomb

Joe is 100 percent accurate on this, but is walking a line very carefully lest his good lefty friends in the media turn against him for daring to credit Bush’s strategery for the Arab uprising….but it is true.

I love this comparison tho:

Bush is a war criminal for water boarding KSM, the master mind of 9/11, who was captured in Paki under the orders of Bush as part of the overall anti-terrorism strategy (wanted dead or alive)….and yet, Obama is a hero for ordering the killing of OBL, even though going after OBL was part of the Bush strategy.  Head scratching….Obama emulated the surge strategy for Afghan that was so successful in Iraq, he continued the Bush policy in Iraq (formed as part of the SOFA signed by Bush)…and yet, Obama is the good guy and Bush is the bad guy.

Thank God there are actual historians that aren’t members of the liberal left that will actually get the facts right.

Tommy, it is almost..scratch that..it is embarrassing to see you suck up to our incompetent community organizer. I have no doubt you would be calling our involvement in Libya unconstitutional if a Republican were at the helm. You would be the first in line to call for his arrest as a war criminal. But since it is Obama, who can do no wrong in Tommy’s slobbering love affair, he gets kudos in the hypocritical liberal world.

I’m sure having another militaristic dictator in the region hostile to democracy who had a history of invading neighboring countries, launching missiles at Israel and supporting Palestinian terrorism would have been a boon to the “Arab spring.”

Stupid Bush.

Foreign policy is my sole great disappointment with the President. That having been said, drone attacks and support of NATO air war drain far less blood and treasure than wholesale invasion and occupation. Surge in Afghanistan provides far greater security leverage than occupation of Iraq. Retreat on Pax-Americana an action too bold for a president dedication to a hold on the middle.

TC, If I were writing this I would have brought up the scathing criticism he had with the left and their double standard.  Bombing in countries we haven’t declared war with, and continuing 95% of the Bush/Cheney policies, to which Sachs agreed.

The anti-war left is stunningly silent on this, and the media give Obama a flat out pass.

Instead of water boarding, we now just drop bombs from unmanned drones.  Killing the suspect without getting any intel, and killing and maiming innocent civilians along the way.  So much better, I suppose.

President Bush predicted that the Iraq war would lead to a democratic Middle East, and he was correct.

BINGO!

Still no sleeves for poor Mika, the old hag being passed off as some sort of sex symbol for the geriatric crowd.

To be fair, providing support for a NATO led effort is far different than a nearly unilateral invasion, the result being loss of both life and huge financial costs. Opposition should be commiserate to cost.

if it were JUST drone attacks and air strikes things in Libya would still be the same. it still took boots on the ground to drive Gaddafi out. no less blood was spilled, but this time it was the blood of the Libyians themselves and not our own.

I object to your claim that we lack “intel” though concede that all information is prone to flaw. I offer that no modern conflict saw more suffering amongst the noncombatant than Iraq. As far as undeclared war, Obama is guilty of continuing precedent. Covert operations far exceed public knowledge and have enabled empire from the start.

It is not stunning at all.  No serious person believes that liberals are “anti war” protesters.  They are radical liberals who have a deep hatred for America and they just found a new topic to protest against.  The same people will pop up soon enough with their new protest.  Whatever it may be I’m certain that it is based upon the evils of the United States.

Certainly the CIA was on the ground, special forces may have had a training role… Though I have read no direct evidence of such. I would argue that plenty more blood was lost in Iraq, though such a discussion begins to trivialize life in a manner I find uncomfortable. Libya troubles me deeply… much more so than Egypt. I see a long conflict of the Afghan style with a real threat of fundamentalist influence.

You actually think nato is “leading” this? LOL!

Covert Operations are just that – covert.  We openly bomb Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia.  Nothing secretive, just a silent press and an even more silent Left.

I respect your disagreement on intel, that’s fine.

But can you argue that we’re behaving more humanely by bombing targets instead of waterboarding or sleep deprivation?

FYI, I’m no fan of Bush policies.  But my own moral compass tells me that killing somebody is worse than enhanced interrogation on them.  That’s not to mention all of the civilian casualties that goes along with these strikes.

The problem is Obama did not get congressional authority according to the war powers act passed after Vietnam and kept our troops there pass their allotted time. Also Libya DID NOT pose a direct threat against the U.S!

Trust me, if it were Bush who invaded Libya, even under the guise of NATO, Tommy and the rest of the liberals would be crying foul and wanting him impeached and tried as a war criminal for an illegal war!!!

You have evidence to the contrary? Please share.

The progressives stopped keeping track or even caring about civilian casualties the MINUTE obama was declared potus.

That seems to be the case, doesn’t it?

I suppose they have more important things to do – like throw glitter at Republican nominees.

On the first point I disagee. Certain folks openly understood that we had operations within Iran under Bush II that were roundly ignored. Yemen, as a thorn in the Saudi side, is not a new front though it has been largely ignored by major American media.

I oppose the bombing but understand that we operate an entirely unsupervised and massively consumptive arm of government charged with security… This arm operates aggressively and until Americans give a crap in a consistent manner it will continue simply on inertia. I doubt any person, even the executive, can give it great pause on their own.

I oppose assassination. The costs are great. Blowback certain.

We foot 75% of Nato’s bill, so basically US tax payers are paying for this.

We foot 75% of Nato’s bill, so basically US tax payers are paying for this.

We foot 75% of Nato’s bill, so basically US tax payers are paying for this.

“Certain folks openly understood that we had operations within Iran under Bush II that were roundly ignored.”

Evidence?

Morning Joe Scabrous…what happened to his face? Features so tiny. Did a chimp chew the old one off?

We spend far less than that. Closer to 20-25 % of the total cost of NATO, which is different than the cost of this specific mission. If you have data on that number, please share it.

I don’t know enough about foreign policy and I’m sure there are good reasons that we do what we do.  None of us wake up and see the threat assessment daily.

My only point is that the left are ignorantly or willingly in denial about Obama using almost all left over Bush/Cheney policies.  And then some..

its easy, if the arab spring ends up with other bad dictators it was bush’s fault because of iraq, if the arab spring ends up with freedom and democracy obama did it……the left is covered

gee Joe, you think?!

gee Joe, you think?!

I can concede that point. Republican presidents have been elected without substantial shift on issues critical to the base like abortion… Obama has not ushered in an era of global peace but has continued militant protection. I find his actions upsetting but unsurprising in the context of American politics. Institutional inertia is powerful.

This show is  so predictable these days, rather boring, and Mika & Joe are just dull!!

Joe is Winning The Future. Get him back to the House of Representatives.

it is about 23%……..but manpower i dont know

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/17/iran.usa

(most moronic comment of the year)

funny how nobody mentions the 300% increase in food prices during the last few years

youre a dumbass….the SOFA agreement was the plan to withdraw from iraq not escalate…Obama was right in following US policy…slyly mixing apples apples wit oranges is something a doofus like you has mastered…bush and cheney are war criminals…if you dont believe it ask those 2 why they cant travel outside the USA and Canada…the answer is simple….THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED and taken to the Haig for trial b4 an international court….lying is so easy for your wingnuts…..youre in complete denial of the failures of the bush administration

I like Scarborough but this is the most offensive thing anyone can say.

Iraq war is not associated in the Arab world with anything other than 1.4 dead Iraqi’s, Abu Ghuraib, 1.4 dead Iraqi’s, millions other displaced, Abu Ghuraib, 1.4 dead Iraqi’s, Fallugah, Fallujah and Fallujah. Falujah by the way for you unread republicans being an example of how the US can get away with war crimes

oh, that was the reason we invaded?

that wasn’t the stated purpose.  

just because obama has weakened/destroyed the country as much as bush,
doesn’t make obama a liberal (or a good president)

besides continuing both wars and the patriot, can any conservatives name which controversial (i.e. controversial to both political parties) policies obama has continued? 

Thanks Obama!

It’s interesting to say that the invasion of Iraq was the beginning of the Arab Spring, when more and more it is becoming more evident that Iraq will become the Fall and not the Spring. Another 29 people just killed by Suni Muslims on attack on a Shiite holy site. Now Iran is going to step in and get revenge on the Sunis. Should have left Iraq in the Saddam’s control. He wasn’t a threat to our homeland. At least he was an enemy of Iran and was a check on the Iranians. Now you have a vacuum in Iraq and a civil war coming between the Sunis, Kurds, and Shiites who have the backing of Iran and Syria. In 2 years there will be no Iraqi so called democracy. It will be the ultimate breeding ground for radical Islam and the next Al Queda stronghold in that region. However, Joe is right that liberals are giving Obama a pass on his interventionist foreign policy. Had this been a republican president, we’d be having protests and demonstrations by liberals not seen since the Vietnam War. I remember it well, while I was sent off to Vietnam, the liberal so called conciencous objectors, like cowards, were running for the Candian border, only to be later pardoned by Jimmy Carter, while 58,000 men gave their lives for this country.  

the republicans run the house where impeachment begins…..tell Boehner to DO HIS THING…impeach Obama….you know the truth but choose to deny it….you like most conservatives is dumber than a box of freakin rocks….i say open up the interment camps and put you asswipes away….enough of your sillyness and anti american bullshit

You spelled “true” wrong.

(except the actual leftists, like amy goodman, thom hartmann, et al)

remember cjd, you won’t find any leftists on television.  

right, that explains why during Bush’s rule American travelers traveling in the middle east pinned Canadian flags on their luggage and backpacks to conceal they’re americans

Tax cuts!

Obama is extending and pursuing Bush’s policies.

You’re welcome.

bush’s stated purpose wasn’t regime change (and furthermore, a series of regime
changes)

frankly, i like the idea of us NOT HAVING TO PAY FOR IT! (see:   egypt, libya)

scarborough loves cheney and yet’s a liberal?

The use of Drones to execute those unfortunate enough to have their names listed on his hit list…  I would say that that begs much explanation.

Bombing brown people for oil bad when GWB does it, good when Barry does it.

I like the part were the lemmings actually spoke out about the silence of the left in droning innocents. 

Again good when barry does it bad when bush did it.  What a bunch of hypocrites.

What was the stated purpose of toppling Libya – the only country that had willingly surrendered its WMDs to the international community – again?

How about Egypt?

And why is Iran helping the rebels in Libya?

http://tiny.cc/kam6m

besides continuing both wars and the patriot act

LOL!

According to every liberal and Democrat in the country prior to January 2009, these were the ONLY POLICIES THAT MATTERED AND THEY NEEDED TO BE STOPPED. The world couldn’t wait, we were told.

Now, suddenly and inexplicably they’re no biggie. Just inconvenient little HEY LOOK AT HOW AWESOME OBAMA IS!

Don’t ever change, Darla.

did tommy (who is a lefty) say anything in the article about bombing other countries…….no, try to keep up darla

And by that measure if it solely had to do with proximity to the troops, wouldn’t an Afghani Spring be a less remote of a possibility where the troops are right in their backyard?

fair enough

but only “leftists” (meaning people like myself) find that controversial

both political parties don’t find it so.  

No this was

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2008/01/saddams-interrogator-speaks

That was caused by Bernanke’s creative financing of the Debt…  I guess you could lay that at the Federal governments doorstep as if they would not spend so much more than they take in then we would not see Bernanke feel the need to find creative ways to finance the new debt… Now Bernanke will argue that he was just holding interest rates down, and I will believe that when I see him sell back all those treasuries and accually contract the money supply.  I don’t think that is going to happen.

wait, i thought scarborough and msnbc were leftists, now they:

a) argue that bush caused the arab spring

b) are doing an exclusive interview w/ cheney 

American liberals, you mean.

but that wasn’t the stated purpose

(remember “mushroom cloud”?)

OBL?

so why are you so angry at obama?  he must be doing a fantastic job, then.  

Libya cost so far: $896 million and counting.

http://tiny.cc/y4p41

You’re paying for it.

you obviously don’t know any actual leftists.  

Gitmo!

Bush goes to UN and Congress, gets approval for use of force, left demands his impeachment.

Obama flouts UN and Congress, conducts covert/overt war on Libya using US airstrikes, left calls for Bush’s impeachment.

Simple!

Just becuase you are incapable of loving or liking people with whom you have disagreements doesn’t mean that everyone else in the world is as immature as you are.

That case strikes me as different. Capture may have paid some dividends, but assassination was justified. I was speaking broadly and referring to drone attacks.

I wonder how many of those dead in Fallujah were Iraqi’s?

http://davidbellavia.com/

Cheney was right. Mika ain’t gonna like that.

the right wing will try anything to justify and excuse the blood lost in Iraq due to their idiocy

True. American conservatives are too cowardly to travel through the middle east, their favorite war sporting field, they’d rather stay home and incite hatred and wars from afar. which explains their flawed world view by the way as they never get to see first hand the fruits of their policies

My son flying to meet a destroyer in Singapore was told to wear civi’s. Guess these lemmings can’t get their facts straight.

Yes, they clam up when a dem does the killing. 

Mika, “The Bloom is off the Rose.”. Your no spring chicken.

I agree, he certainly earned that bullet.  Here’s another. Didn’t hear much from the lemmings on this one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html

Now, doesn’t that just take the cake.

I have talked about this and said, wait, a freaking minute, before you know it, since TBGOPers were claiming their hands in eliminating Osama Bin Laden, it would not take long before they claim that the Arab Freedom seeking Uprising was from Bush and the Iraq war.  Now here comes their number one lying liar in chief, none other than the disgraced former congressman from FL, Joe Scarborough.  He has been gone for 2 weeks,  he was not there when Libya was taken over by the rebels.  The TBGOPer discussions of starting with Drudge, Fox, right wing web sites, 1300 talk hate, and the sheepish MSM, are hour they start.  They make the suggestions.  Then they hammer it for some, then by tomorrow, Pat Buchanan would be writing about it in his columns  then the hateful 3 hour M-F bashing of Dems and pres Obama in particular on MSNBC would just flame and narrate this lie until it becomes mainstream.

You see, if it works, pres Obama didn’t do it, it was Bush that laid out the plans and pres Obama was just following them.  If the public thinks now that FEMA did a good job, then watch out, it was Bush.

Remember this is the same ass, Joe Scarborough that goaded Mark fatuous Helprin to call the president a Dick.  Why MSNBC keeps such a lying wicked, crude man on their pay roll, only Heavens know.

I wonder what happened to Cindy Sheehan? How about the Code Pink lemmings?  Seems like they are hiding under that rare, but large hypocrite rock.

They were also running to the Peace Corps (ala Tingles Matthews).
That was the best legal Draft Dodge in the world at the time!

This is the same wicked fatuous liar that said in Jan of this year that pres Obama was throwing Mubarak under the bus and was hurting USA relationship with Israel and now, pres Obama is following Bush and Cheney’s doctrine?

When Osama Bin Laden was eliminated, Joe disgraced rep from FL Scarborough, claimed that enhanced technique, torture, was the reason information was gotten to the whereabouts about OBL.  This idiotic lying scum of the earth, selectively, chose to ignore the fact that Bush terminated the division assigned to look for OBL since 2001.  This womanizer, who cheated on his wife and disgracefully left congress, has the temerity to suggest that the Iraq war had something to do with Arab Spring?  They don’t know history but they sure work harder to constantly make up things and change history that it is LOL unrecognizable.  Stupid idiots being giving microphones to lie, distort and misinform the public, time after time.

How can anyone, ANYONE,  sit in front of aTV and watch Mika
constantly rolling her eyes, looking up to the sky and sighing and looking SO
left out of the boy talk, when they ignore her, which is most of the time?
Girl is definitly not going to win any Beauty Pageants anytime soon!

Somebody told you it matters how many dead were Iraqis?

Somebody told you it matters how many dead were Iraqis?

Somebody told you it matters how many dead were Iraqis?

So, removing Khaddafi simply because he was an evil dictator is good, but removing Saddam for similar reasons was bad.  And the freedom of the citizens of Iraq, which they have enjoyed for several years now, is in no way an inspiration for citizens of Libya, Syria, Egypt, et.al.  It takes courage to admit sometimes that your ideas were wrong, no matter how vociferously you stated those ideas.

It’s your responsibility to the troops they died for nothing. You’re the one asserting it.

Make haste.

Ah, yes. The Middle East has always been awash in Enlightenment values and ideas from American liberals. It’s those dumb Ameircan teabaggurz that are always screwin’ up the New Liberal Renaissance that the Americans liberals have been trying to bring to the Middle East for centuries.

LOL

Scarborough, and maybe Pat Buchannan on that same program, is about as right-wing as MSNBC gets.

MSNBC is a leftwing network, and the truth made an appearance on their morning shows.

Clearly, it’s got you upset.

Scarborough, and maybe Pat Buchannan on that same program, is about as right-wing as MSNBC gets.

MSNBC is a leftwing network, and the truth made an appearance on their morning shows.

Clearly, it’s got you upset.

Actually, it could be argued that an invasion (a la Iraq) may have saved lives in Libya.  How long have rebel and loyalist combatants been fighting and dying?  An invasion would have taken days and saved countless thousands of needless deaths.

Versus Iranians, Saudi’s, Yemen…….

So you’d rather Hussein be back in power than have Bush be right about something.

Don’t ever change, Darla.

We’re not angry at Obama over this – we’re extremely curious. Sure, he ran on an anti-war campaign and lied to the American people, but that’s beside the point.

We’re wondering – loudly – what happened to his suddenly not-protesting-in-the-streets-and-screaming-for-impeachment supporters who were all the rave from 2003-2008, but vanished as suddenly as they came once Obama was safely ensconced in power.

Can you help us out?

Greg, according to Secretary Gates the US is paying 75% of the tab in Libya.

The U.S. is “in the midst of a deep economic crisis of our own,” he
said. “If you told American taxpayers, as I just did, that they’re
bearing 75 percent of the financial burden of the alliance, this going
to raise eyebrows.”

Here’s a link from NPR:

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/10/137112899/gates-rebukes-nato

Here’s a Fox link:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/10/gates-blasts-nato-questions-future-alliance/

You must be a member of MSU. Make Shit Up.

It should matter little which side of the aisle you are on….  it is a discussion worth having…  that is my frustration with the left calling Cheney and Bush war criminals for waterboarding…  they did what they thought they needed to do…  now the president is doing what he feels he needs to do, I do find it hypocritical in the face of calling for miranda rights on the field of battle…  read them their constitutionally given rights if you capture them, but better yet just blow them and their families up and you won’t have to.

I am not necessarily saying that the president is wrong, this war is different than any other and cannot be fought with conventional methods… I am just saying that it should be a topic for national discussion, and it certainly has implications both at home and abroad..  especially when you consider the unchecked authority the president uses as he prosecutes the war in which ever manner he sees fit.  

i stand corrected, sorry turk

Here’s the deal, they want to be left alone. Interventionism comes from both sides all promulgated by special interest

Both sides have been inconsistent in their interventionism policies. Ron Paul is considered a kook on your side and Obama has a split personality and demonstrated chronic incoherence

Arabs want to be left alone and we would be wise to oblige. As someone once said about Bush’s and the neocon’s alleged desire to spread of democracy in the middle east, we don’t have to preach or force any idea on any one, if they see a good thing they’ll steal it

No, we’d rather that you’d stop making ignorant assumptions.

Same happened when my son flew to Bahrain to meet his amphibious warship in the 90′s, plus, no dog tags, military IDs or Navy gear, that was shipped military express.  My haven’t times changed, almost want to book a flight to Tripoli for a quiet Labor Day weekend.

Now that the stench of Obama has reached critical mass ( unbearably disgusting ) even in Washington Scarborough is slowly attempting to rehabilitate himself with the Republican party and us ” real ” American people.

I for one am having none of him. He made his lib bed, crapped in it, now he’s got to lie in it or next to it…..whatever.

The anti-war protests really had a huge affect on Dubya, don’t you think?

The anti-war protests really had a huge affect on Dubya, don’t you think?

why do you hate america?

good lt,

i understand, you’re an angry, unemployed loser, who has nothing better to do
than annoy anonymous people all day on a “left-wing” website.

i’d rather have those 1 million lives, 2 trillion dollars, and some dignity back

Colin Powell’s self-serving appearance yesterday on “Face the Nation” was the first Washington head to explode.

keeping up with some loser watering-hole owner from po-dunk ohio isn’t too difficult…..

1 billion dollars (and success) vs. 2 trillion dollars (and very, very little success)?

i’ll take libya

you obviously haven’t heard of code pink, the labor movement, the environmental
movement….to name just 3

(changes subject)

how does the “left” tacitly support these attacks?

note to turk:  the “left”  does not mean “the democratic party”

they are 2 different factions

you obviously aren’t following the actual “Left”

or you simply live in a conservative area

here is northern california, there are protests every single day

code pink, they seem pretty busy to me (as always)

http://www.codepink.org/

besides, some are friends of mine, and just so you know:

they don’t like obama

You mean there are actually people on earth that think Iraq’s journey with the USA’s help towards eliminating a madman dictator and gaining the right to vote Wasn’t the glimmering hope that emboldened the peoples throughout the Middle East to take charge of their own lives?

You’ve got to be kidding. Welcome to the concept of falling dominos, my friends.

how does obama control food prices?

it’s funny how people complain about the economy, as if it’s obama’s fault, and
yet when the logical response is “more regulation” they decry socialism.

waterboarding is a crime

i don’t think obama is awesome

i can’t stand obama

Thank God they had Mika there to give us all the wisdom of her numerous insightful observations during this 12 minute segment.

I did when GWB was prez, they sure did clam up after a dem got in the WH and decided to kill for oil.

Yeah, I mean the USA was charged with so many war crimes, and you Dbag, it was the Iraq govt. that gave the US the go ahead to rid Fallujah of its terrorists.

Yeah, I mean the USA was charged with so many war crimes, and you Dbag, it was the Iraq govt. that gave the US the go ahead to rid Fallujah of its terrorists.

When did libya attack us?

Maybe he lives where people work.

Funny how you far left whack-jobs blame Bush for our current situation….

Sweetheart Linda is angry again.  I wonder why although it usually is about this time of the month.  Perhaps that has something to do with it.

Tammy seems to do so.  I wonder if Tammy is getting paid to do this.

Not necessarily.  In Afghanistan he is continuing the Bush “nation building”, but when you look at places like Libya, he said no.  He wanted the Libyans to be the ones who took the initiative to overthrow their government.  He also wanted the involvement of other Arab countries like Saudi Arabia and an important note here – he firmly said the US would not be footing the entire bill.,

Obama clearly wanted to avoid the mistakes made in Iraq.  If the Libyans have “broken their government”, they now “own what it has become”.  That is far different than the occupation of Iraq.  But no matter what he did or did not do, he would have been criticized by the republicans.

  He didn’t lie to the American people.  He campaigned against the  Iraq war – always saying it was wrong to go into Iraq.  And he is withdrawing from Iraq as he said he would. He didn’t campaign against the Afgahnistan war.

When did IRAQ attack us?

I don’t actually recall any Iraqiis who were begging for Bush’s assistance in toppling Saddam Hussein.  The rebels in Libya were begging for assistance and unlike Bush, Obama actually had the UN backing.  The Bush administration was arrogant and incompetent.  Had they left the UN weapons inspectors in Iraq in 2003 and actually had the invasion approved by the UN, they would have gotten the involvement of countries like India but only if it was approved by the UN.  Bush reminded me of Sonny Corleone – hot headed and not patient to wait until the UN weapons inspectors completed their job.  But, we do know why that was – because he wasn’t going in because of WMD’s – he was going after the oil.  He and Cheney had discussed that before they even took office.

On one hand you have an arrogant fool who was impatient with the UN inspectors and didn’t give a damn about the lives of the men and women he was sending into harms way and on the other hand you have a president who sometimes too careful, but he brings in the budget director when discussing military matters because he needs to know the cost of not just lives, but cost to the taxpayers as well.  Maybe his community planning paid off after all.

Really?  Did she tell us all what we’re allowed to eat and drink?

 Well at this point it is kinda hard to tell, but maybe it does have something to do with the Arab Spring. But if it did then are the conservatives happy or mad about this? Im confused because a lot of you righties said the arab spring was a bad thing. So if the arab spring was caused by George Bushs Iraq invasion is that a good outcome or bad?

You exaggerate. A lot of the Republicans didn’t like the idea that we would allow other NATO countries to take the lead in the no-fly zone.  

I’m sure those Libyans blown to pieces by drones will take solace in that fact. They own what they have become? What if that is a brother to Iran and AQ? And we helped them do it?  Blood for oil.  Most libs were against it when they protested a Republican doing the same thing. Now they tout it.

$100 says Mika will be sleeveless tomorrow with a scarf wrapped around her wrinked neck.  Good think daddy had a guvment job or Mika would be winding down her career as a pole dancer.

I think the rebels in Libya were able to study the Iraq situation and decide “what NOT to do”.  For that reason, it is very likely that Iraq did affect it.  For instance, the Transistional government was well planned ahead of time, the transistional government has put out the word that all the police, government administrators, teachers etc are to stay to help maintain basic services.  They also put out a call for the rebels to NOT loot or engage in reprisals in any way.

Yes, they read the Iraq story and knew what not to do from the Bush administrations failures in Iraq.  But, so did Obama.  He knows that if the rebels take their country and rebuild it themselves with only the assistance they request, we will remain their ally for years to come and not seen as the dictator of how their country is suppose to operate. 

thanx for proving my point.

The problem is that the people in Iraq weren’t the ones who were doing the ‘removing”.  We will be fortunate if after we leave Iraq they are actually our ally.  I hope so, but i think because the US took over that country and flexed a military takeover, it is my opinion that Iraq will eventually be more aligned with Iran than the US.

If you don’t like Morning Joe, why don’t you go check on those bimbos on fake FOX?

Guess you forgot about the Kurds?
Bombing Libya isn’t about oil? LOL,  I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, perhaps you would like to purchase?

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-a-2003-05-29-33-Iraqi-66850447.html

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2008/01/saddams-interrogator-speaks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1441

I DON’T want to be allies with the muslim brotherhood/”rebels.” If you like them so much you can move there and I’ll kick some cash to help you out.

Sorry, but I don’t think Joe’s opinion should be challenged by his personal past.  I’m not a republican – I’m just an American citizen thinking that too often a person attacks another like you did because you don’t want to debate the real question. 
Please don’t bring personal “womanizer” things into this debate.  Too often these posts are filled with name-calling like this and it does nothing but sharpen the divide.

Didn’t give a damn about the lives?  He did many things wrong and I did not support the Iraq invasion.  But to say that is just false.  You’ll find many of the troops support GWB, he views them more than just a photo-op.

Maybe LInda you should turn the channel if you don’t like Joe.  Personally, I don’t always agree with Joe -in fact, most of the time, but I appreciate the challenges he gives me which often just solidifies my opinion of whatever it is.
Like I previously stated – Joe might be right but ONLY because the Bush Iraq war taught the Libyan rebels what NOT to do.
So, I guess Joe was right that there was some influence.

You mean like Cheney and Bush?  Cheney the champion of 6 deferments and Bush who pushed his way into the National guards line (with daddy’s help) so he could “fly sorties over Texas”????

You are saying that the use of drones is wrong?  The drones carrying weapons came in with the Bush administration.  However, the heaviest use of the drones is un-manned for sending back pictures to the military of enemy locations. 

Yes, it is a violation of the Geneva Convention and for that reason, both Cheney and Bush would be war criminals.

We shall have to watch and see, but I anticipate that the transition to any type of democratic government in Libya will be far messier than the one in Iraq.  Our presence there has helped to maintain the government and support the constitution that the Iraqi people wrote for themselves.  The citizens in Iraq were not capable of removing Saddam; witness the slaughter of the rebels in 1993.  In the truest sense of freedom, the Iraqi people were not forced to be our ally as a price for their independance.  I would think the world should see that as noble rather than troublesome.

What Iraq government? You mean the one that installed by Bush after the toppling of Saddam?

Well Texan – apparently you had no problem with the way Bush was DOUBLING the national debt.  When you DOUBLE the national debt, you also DOUBLE the INTEREST we are now obligated to pay.

When you give tax breaks to the wealthy and create a “socialist” pharmaceutical bill, the bill is then due each year for those frivolous “socialist” commitments.

So, Obama is now burdened with the failings of Bush and that isn’t just the 750,000 who were losing their job every month prior to Obama coming into office.

No, unlike Iraq, the Libyans are responsible for the new government they establish.

Yup, way to dis someone for serving.  How low can you go? I’m sure you’re a big Clinton and Biden supporter, how many deferments did ole Brainless Joe have?

Don’t take that bet to Vegas.

The Arab Spring is a good thing, except that it lacks the control of a strong presence to ensure that democracy can take hold.  The Libyan situation risks cycling into a fiasco, as no one controls the police, military, water, electricity and other necessary utilities.  Our presence in Iraq, criticized by many on the left, ensured a cleaner and safer transition of authority than seems to be at work in Egypt and Libya.  That is my only criticism.

Turk,
By your assessment, we wouldn’t have even thought about going into get Osama bin Laden.

Turk,
By your assessment, we wouldn’t have even thought about going into get Osama bin Laden.

Ill agree with that:). Its hard to tell whether it had a direct affect, Im just confused by the conservative viewpoint on this. If the occupation of iraq in the long run means a more stable middle east and the over throw of evil dictators i would think this would be a good thing. But if it means the destabilization of the region and radical muslims getting into power after these dictators thats a bad thing. Probably why conservatives are sitting on the sidelines waiting to see how it turns out so they can either take the credit for themselves or lay the blame on Obama:)

then again, Bush lied to Congress in order to get the approval for Iraq.  There were no boots on the ground in Libya and another special feature of the Libya no-fly – the Libyan people asks for NATO assistance.  That seemed to have been missing from the IRaqi people.,

Cleaner and safer transition? I would rethink those words my friend. Iraq is still a mess and has been for 10 years. A man just blew himself up in a mosque today killing 29. There have been countless murders and the dead bodies in that country are to hard to count. Whatever happens in Egypt and Libya or Tunisa  may or may not be worse. But its defiantly not worse yet.

Perhaps the West, specifically America, should begin a foreign policy whereby the slightest cultural offense against America, our history, citizens and Government should result in vengeance against the “infidel?”  Good Lord, America is so preoccupied with everybody else’s sensibilities, both from within and without our borders,  isn’t it time for some quid pro quo?

After all we are Islam’s “Great Satanic infidel,” why not make Islam OUR “infidel?”  Then we can both have our very own “heathen devil” to blame for our own failings. “Winner takes all!”  

Considering that right now, at this very moment, America is the more powerful of Cultures, however, the next year, plus maybe another 4, the Socialists and American apologists may have the opportunity to further “give away the farm,” plus any strength we have left, thus, emasculating us.  

Now that I think about it, I guess we have our very own, American apostate’s, right here?  Boy, we do have a problem?

“Let’s get ready tooo Ruumble!”   Ouch!

Purveyor

Exactly!
Fox has a pretty damn good record on Hotties and most important,
Smarties!
  Great combination!
Leads to 3 to 5 to one ratings!!
 Also important!
lol

c’mon joe, we all know that mr. obama’s speech at cairo is what spurred the arab spring.  let me quote…

 But I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. Those are not just American ideas, they are human rights, and that is why we will support them everywhere.There is no straight line to realize this promise. But this much is clear: governments that protect these rights are ultimately more stable, successful and secure. Suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. America respects the right of all peaceful and law-abiding voices to be heard around the world, even if we disagree with them. And we will welcome all elected, peaceful governments – provided they govern with respect for all their people.

i posted at the bottom of the page, it was obama’s speech in cairo a couple years ago which inspired the arab spring.

the one thing we can be certain about is that not having saddam gives more strength to iran.  i’m glad hussein is gone, but imagine what it would look like if his overthrow came from within and what that would inspire the people of iran to do.

going after bin laden was not bush’s strategy.  bush’s strategy was chasing him to bora bora then backing off when he went into pakistan…even saying 2002-03-14 04:00:00 PST Washington – President Bush declared Osama bin Laden all but vanquished yesterday, saying the al Qaeda leader — dead or alive — no longer poses a serious threat to America.
“We haven’t heard from him in a long time,” Bush told reporters at the White House. “I truly am not that concerned about him.”
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/bush-says-bin-laden-no-threat-options-open-against-rogue-states-including-nuclear-weapons/question-1751057/

Iraq may have had something to do with “Arab Spring’” it’s too soon to know. It’s also too soon to know if the new governments will be closer to that in Iran or in Iraq.

since you have “no doubt” please post an article where tommy supports obama’s decision on libya.

One of the most dangerous men to hold public office? Absolutely.

Bush didn’t lie about anything and there were several groups of Iraqi exiles and Kurds that had worked to get help to overthrow Saddam from Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43, both Bush 41 and Clinton funded these groups.  US officials met with Kurds in Iraq days before the invasion.

Obama wasn’t listening to the people, he listened to Sarkozy,  we now are funding 75% of an Oil for France war.

As far as wanting to know the cost, how did the president’s budget director know the cost of this “days not weeks” excursion?  Hmmmm, how did he manage to figure that out now that it’s been how many MONTHS?  You don’t get to determine everything in war, especially if there is an enemy that’s trying to have its way.

I agree.  Obama is the most dangerous.

Sounds like a Tea-Drinker to me, sleeping with the kooks.

L.O.L.

The GOP laughed at Al Gore when he said he would put Social Security money in a LOCKBOX, and the Government could no longer put I.O.U’s in the box, but use real money!
Was’nt such a dumb idea, was it!

why are you a coward?

Why are you too stupid to understand that ALL Americans wear Canadian pins in Europe? are you that dumb?

Why don’t you acknowledge what the world already knows..  Canada has  a much better foreign policy than America. You should really sub your government out to Canada.

actually, it is american tea party people have nothing to do with it

it is more like people who “have their head up their own butt”

good Lt is still a coward who is reduced to lying on the internetz under anonymous names.

There were several groups of Iraqi exiles and the Kurds in Iraq were all begging for help through three administrations.

I can’t believe you find that quote credible, it’s been hacked down and taken out of context.

Newsbusters has the full four minute quote in context:

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/05/10/msnbc-airs-highly-edited-video-bushs-march-2002-comments-concerning-b

The Iraqi Interim Government, appointed by the UN.  Prior to that it was the Iraq Governing Council.  The UN has been involved in these decisions from the beginning.

http://www.cfr.org/iraq/iraq-interim-government-leaders/p7664

According to Obama’s former National Security Advisor, his use of drones have increased anti-American sentiments in the region.  He…….blasted Obama:
http://asiantribune.com/news/2011/08/16/obama%E2%80%99s-former-national-intelligence-chief-criticizes-drone-attacks-af-pak-region

Well, if it meant saving the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, if it meant having the respect of the world back, if it meant not losing over 5,000 brave members of the US military, yes, I would want Hussein back in power.

What Joe Scarborough and the other GOP apologists — you too Good Lt — don’t get is that all because one thing follows another chronologically, doesn’t create cause and effect.

OMG … you are REALLY trying to compare Libya (no US deaths – pending humanitarian disaster – leader who sheltered Pan Am plane bombing ) and Iraq — ( over 5000 us deaths, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead)??/ REally? How’d the “Mission Accomplished” work for you!? And Bush never even got bin Laden! Too busy reading children’s books.

You all do know, that by rooting for our president to fail, you are rooting against America. And if you root against America, you hate America. Seems fairly logical to me – GOP and Teabaggers hate America.

I thought you Bushites want to level the UN building right to the ground. Glad to see you now want to hide behind its skirt. Do we just listen to anyone who puts index finger to map and start committing atrocities?

American conservatives travel in the middle east on M1A2 Abrams Tanks ;)

Not many liberals sign up for the US Military. 

Canadians are the targets for AL queda.  They just look for the giant green thing moving in a desert.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/09/09/defence-troops-camouflage-fatigues182.html

The Canadian military was criticized for sending soldiers to
Afghanistan in dark green fatigues in 2002 as part of the U.S.-led
Operation Enduring Freedom.

The subsequent sand-coloured pattern, called arid regions and designed for desert warfare, came along in 2003.

Canadians are the targets for AL queda.  They just look for the giant green thing moving in a desert.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/09/09/defence-troops-camouflage-fatigues182.html

The Canadian military was criticized for sending soldiers to
Afghanistan in dark green fatigues in 2002 as part of the U.S.-led
Operation Enduring Freedom.

The subsequent sand-coloured pattern, called arid regions and designed for desert warfare, came along in 2003.

Joe Scarborough is a shill for the Republican Party,,,,, was away for two weeks working on the strategy and bashed Obama with opening Statements both mornings,,,, Buchanan by his side Monday and Wallace today.

I saw Cheney over the week-end,,,,,and almost forgot how much I disliked him.  Then Saw Scarborough Monday Morning after two weeks of meaningful discussion,,,,,, and came to the conclusion both Cheney and Scarborough are cut from the same cloth,,, only Scarborough’s cloth is cut on a louder bias.

I son’t understand what is happening to MSNBC, but can assure you Scarborough is gehind alot of the changes.  -   No one wanting to represent Moderates or Democraqts would choose many of the new faces on air,  They simplky don’t speak for the Democratic Party,,,,,, they speak for the fringe,,,,, 

Anyone Joe doesn’t like or feels threatened by (Peter,,,be careful) goes in record time

MSNBC is trying to get some semblence of ratings, but to no avail.  They’ve got the most left-wing loons they could find, mostly from the scrapheap of Air Amerika.

Ilene,
Would have Loved to have seen your posts during the W Bush years. Lol. You win this year’s biggest hypocrite award ! Congratulations!

Ilene,
Would have Loved to have seen your posts during the W Bush years. Lol. You win this year’s biggest hypocrite award ! Congratulations!

Gosh, and in spite of our laws and law enforcement I learned that people in the United States were murdered yesterday.  I guess we should give up as well on this whole notion of democracy, since we can’t seem to ensure that crazy people are prone to do crazy things.

I didn’t wear a Canadian pin in Europe =/.  I openly expressed my status as an American and was only met with curiosity, questions, and open arms.  Europeans still love Americans, they just think the American government has its head up its ass (and they are right!).