Hey Michelle. Shut. Up.

Look at how radical Islamics treat women . Honor killings , beheadings , wearing burquas , etc . How can liberals defend this behavior ? Michelle Malkin is a national treasure . She tells it straight at all times .

I don’t like Malkin at all, but is it really untrue to suggest that radical Islam hates America?

Big Eddie said:
Look at how radical Islamics treat women . Honor killings , beheadings , wearing burquas , etc . How can liberals defend this behavior ? Michelle Malkin is a national treasure . She tells it straight at all times .

What liberal has explicitly defended honor killings and beheadings?

JoeRemi said:
Hey Michelle. Shut. Up.

Why don’t you just stick your fingers in your ears and sing “LA LA LA LA LA!” so you won’t be troubled by the mean old world?

How dare Malkin insult radical Islam. It must be defended at all costs.

Pablo said:
Why don’t you just stick your fingers in your ears and sing “LA LA LA LA LA!” so you won’t be troubled by the mean old world?

Yeah, a bunch of drunkin’ assholes attacking a woman is a good time to draw connections to geopolitics. Michelle Malkin is taking advantage of a terrible act of violence to make political points. What an ass.

I bet there wasn’t a Muslim in the bunch. This is an outrage!

writer said:
I bet there wasn’t a Muslim in the bunch. This is an outrage!

That’s not the point. You can’t blame one act of sexual violence on an amorphous Muslim movement. It belittles the event.

Better take a deep breath before I say this……here goes…..

MICHELLE MALKIN HAS SOME GOOD POINTS HERE!!

*vomits*

Okay. I’m a total progressive and I find it very narrow-minded how the entire religion of Islam is so demonized in our culture. I also think that hearing these two try and politicize this event is rather unfortunate. There are still lots of unknown details.

That said, there are lots of Muslims in the Middle East that just plain hate America. To deny this is being dangerously naive. Just as naive as saying Islam is an evil religion. U.S. foreign policy should be about showing that we are not the Great Satan that Islamic fundamentalists portray us as. Unfortunately a lot of what America says and does plays right into the hands of our enemies. We make no efforts to understand the forces we are up against.

Malkin was also belittling radical Islam. And no good Amerikan will stand for such language.

writer said:
Malkin was also belittling radical Islam. And no good Amerikan will stand for such language.

You. Are an IDIOT.

paulmdoro said:
I don’t like Malkin at all, but is it really untrue to suggest that radical Islam hates America?

It seems like stating the obvious.

Radical Islam is a root cause? Perhaps, but no more so than any other religion. Some religions in America, still teach that women should be subservient to their husband, and sex is usually non-negotiable. What causes a good Christian to come home and rape his wife at night? Check on the internet in your local town. I bet someone got raped in your town recently. I would bet it was not a Muslim that did it. Right now, somewhere in main street America, someone is getting sexually assaulted, by someone that probably identifies as Christian. This woman is an idiot, and if you are not embarrassed by her, I am not surprised.

JoeRemi said:
Hey Michelle. Shut. Up.

Truth sting a bit? Must.

Damn, Joe Remi. I was agreeing with you. We all know that radical Islam holds women in the highest regard. The odds that any of the rapists were radical Islamists is practically nil.

Paul says:

What liberal has explicitly defended honor killings and beheadings?

I think a better question is where are groups like NOW? You rarely hear them speak out about these issues. Why do you think that is? These types of “woman’s groups” clearly have a political bent to them.

In fact, I bet the rapists were Mormons.

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
Paul says:

What liberal has explicitly defended honor killings and beheadings?

I think a better question is where are groups like NOW? You rarely hear them speak out about these issues. Why do you think that is? These types of “woman’s groups” clearly have a political bent to them.

I rarely hear NOW speak about anything, ever. Do they ever speak out about global issues, or are they strictly a domestic organization?

JoeRemi said:
Yeah, a bunch of drunkin’ assholes attacking a woman is a good time to draw connections to geopolitics. Michelle Malkin is taking advantage of a terrible act of violence to make political points. What an ass.

I will agree with you last sentence only!

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
Paul says:

What liberal has explicitly defended honor killings and beheadings?

I think a better question is where are groups like NOW? You rarely hear them speak out about these issues. Why do you think that is? These types of “woman’s groups” clearly have a political bent to them.

No, it’s not actually a better question. It’s just an opportunity for you to avoid reality. Again.

Paul, I don’t know if they consider themselves domestic or not, but they “claim” to care about woman’s issues, so isn’t it odd that they don’t speak out about these atrocities?

I was a little confused as to what the actual point was though.
What’s the connection between radical Islam and this attack? Is it because they spread anti American, and anti Israel resentment, and paint us as the enemy? That’s certainly true. They do.
They also mentioned that we supported a 30 year dictator , all the while talking about how much we want people to be free and have liberty. That’s also true.

We need to defend ourselves, but we the citizens and families who will be sending friends and family to kill and be killed, need to also recognize that we are in part responsible for where we find ourselves now because of of decades of bad foreign policy. It’s not as if the ME has no reason at all to resent and distrust us.
Maybe, just maybe, we can change our policies there and try to avoid more wars and death, as well as defend ourselves.

Malkin was totally avoiding the Mormon influence in Egypt.

writer said:
In fact, I bet the rapists were Mormons.

Gosh, writer, you’re venturing into some dark waters buddy.

Liberal Tormentor (formerly Seeing 2012 From My Window) said:
Paul, I don’t know if they consider themselves domestic or not, but they “claim” to care about woman’s issues, so isn’t it odd that they don’t speak out about these atrocities?

Not if they are strictly a domestic organization, which it appears to be. One would then rightly expect them to stick to issues in the U.S.

your.

writer said:
Malkin was totally avoiding the Mormon influence in Egypt.

That’s cause she’s a moroni.

Maybe, Cosmos. But you have to agree that Malkin is kinda cute.

(Fire in the hole!)

CosmosDan said:
I was a little confused as to what the actual point was though.
What’s the connection between radical Islam and this attack? Is it because they spread anti American, and anti Israel resentment, and paint us as the enemy? That’s certainly true. They do.
They also mentioned that we supported a 30 year dictator , all the while talking about how much we want people to be free and have liberty. That’s also true.

We need to defend ourselves, but we the citizens and families who will be sending friends and family to kill and be killed, need to also recognize that we are in part responsible for where we find ourselves now because of of decades of bad foreign policy. It’s not as if the ME has no reason at all to resent and distrust us.
Maybe, just maybe, we can change our policies there and try to avoid more wars and death, as well as defend ourselves.

WHOA! Ease up on the rhetoric there, buddy! You know the rules. You either want to release a magic plague that causes all Muslims to drop dead or you contribute a part of your paycheck to al-Qaeda and use kindle your fires with American flags. That’s it. Take your pick!

JoeRemi said:
Yeah, a bunch of drunkin’ assholes attacking a woman is a good time to draw connections to geopolitics. Michelle Malkin is taking advantage of a terrible act of violence to make political points. What an ass.

That was the feeling I got . What happened was horrible, and we don’t know who did it. Were the perps Muslim’s? Probably, but so were the women and soldiers who rescued her.

Anti American and Anti Israel sentiment is certainly an issue but why connect it to this attack specifically?

JoeRemi said:
Yeah, a bunch of drunkin’ assholes attacking a woman is a good time to draw connections to geopolitics. Michelle Malkin is taking advantage of a terrible act of violence to make political points. What an ass.

No, sweetie. It’s a good time to pretend it’s an isolated incident that can’t teach us anything about larger cultural or political issues. Hey, is it OK to draw conclusions from Nidal Hasan yet? And what makes you think the people that attacked Logan while shouting “Jew! Jew!” were drunk? Is it just easier for you to think of it that way? “LA LA LA LA LA!” is even easier than that.

Yeah, a bunch of drunkin’ assholes attacking a woman is a good time to draw connections to geopolitics.

See? They were drunk. And Muslims don’t drink. That proves it.

writer said:
Maybe, Cosmos. But you have to agree that Malkin is kinda cute.

(Fire in the hole!)

Oh she’s an angel…….{moroni… Mormon..get it?} Don’t think you can hog all the Mormon jokes.

Wait a minute. Mormons don’t drink either.

writer said:
Wait a minute. Mormons don’t drink either.

See underneath it all we have more in common than we think with people who seem to be very different from us.

im_lovin_it said:
WHOA! Ease up on the rhetoric there, buddy! You know the rules. You either want to release a magic plague that causes all Muslims to drop dead or you contribute a part of your paycheck to al-Qaeda and use kindle your fires with American flags. That’s it. Take your pick!

I guess I’ll go with anti American lib, who defends Islam and hates Christianity, because that’s what I’ll be accused of even though it’s bullshit.

Hey, my girl just got out out the shower and was walking around with a towel on her head. Should I kill her?

JoeRemi said:
That’s not the point. You can’t blame one act of sexual violence on an amorphous Muslim movement. It belittles the event.

Ah, yes. If you want to give the incident the respect it deserves, whatever you do, don’t even think about the root causes of it.

Rape and Gender Ideology in Egypt

Egypt: Muslim gangs rape Christian girls

Wholesale Rape and Looting In Egypt, O.C. Journalist Reports

Just 200 drunks is all it was! Nothing to see here, move along.

They’re just a bunch of fun-loving “youths” I don’t see what Malkin is getting all worked up about.

Now the question arises, who smuggled the alcohol to the crowd?

See? They were drunk. And Muslims don’t drink. That proves it.

I didn’t do it. And she was asking for it, so I had every right to do it.

paulmdoro said:
See underneath it all we have more in common than we think with people who seem to be very different from us.

This has always been the underlying theme of my personal views.

No matter who i’be met or where they are from I’ve noticed there are good people everywhere who are kind, honest, respectful, and; there are jerks everywhere who lie, steal, etc.

I think most nations and peoples want the freedom to work out their own fate , even with their problems and failings, and they want to be respected as a people rather than manipulated for an agenda.

Why aren’t jesse jackson and al sharpton over there doing God’s work? Seems a great opportunity to do some good, right?

The good rev wright and rev moss could go over there and straighten things out in a jiffy, whatayawanna bet?

Pablo said:
Ah, yes. If you want to give the incident the respect it deserves, whatever you do, don’t even think about the root causes of it.

Rape and Gender Ideology in Egypt

Egypt: Muslim gangs rape Christian girls

Wholesale Rape and Looting In Egypt, O.C. Journalist Reports

Just 200 drunks is all it was! Nothing to see here, move along.

I wonder why those radical Muslims rescued her? Strange!

I wonder why those radical Muslims were embracing and kissing some American journalists and hoisting them up on there shoulders?

Could it be that in a community of thousands of people there are both good and bad people in it?

CosmosDan said:
I guess I’ll go with anti American lib, who defends Islam and hates Christianity, because that’s what I’ll be accused of even though it’s bullshit.

Hey, my girl just got out out the shower and was walking around with a towel on her head. Should I kill her?

Yes! Kill her! Death to the infidels. Beware of our Republican Zionist neighbors who sleep with their siblings and hate all minorities. ALLAHU AKBAR!!

I enjoy seeing someone else with a sense of nuance. Right now on another board there is a crazy debate going on about Israel and Palestine. I think it’s the Helen Thomas one. Again, absolutely no room for give and take. All absolutism. Either you think Israel should carpet bomb the whole place or all Jews should be put to the sword. People treat these issues like a football game.

There sure are a lot of ignorant posters in denial here who pretend Islam is just another in some long list of religions no different than Episcopalian, or Presbyterian. Your ignorance and denial equate uncivilized Muslim butchery with Christian theology. And it’s ignorance and denial that got thousands of innocent civilians killed, and continue to rack-up the casualty list.

Do you airheads know the actual meanings of “Jihad,” “Sharia,” or “Taqiyah?” Do you know what Muslims believe? Do you know the origin and subsequent history of Islam. No, you don’t. You just find it easy to side with America’s enemies out of mutual contempt for America and for truth.

Davo said:
There sure are a lot of ignorant posters in denial here who pretend Islam is just another in some long list of religions no different than Episcopalian, or Presbyterian. Your ignorance and denial equate uncivilized Muslim butchery with Christian theology. And it’s ignorance and denial that got thousands of innocent civilians killed, and continue to rack-up the casualty list.

Do you airheads know the actual meanings of “Jihad,” “Sharia,” or “Taqiyah?” Do you know what Muslims believe? Do you know the origin and subsequent history of Islam. No, you don’t. You just find it easy to side with America’s enemies out of mutual contempt for America and for truth.

Do all Muslims believe the exact same thing? Is every single won a radical bent on destroying America? Should all be judged by the actions of the extremists?

One thing I’ve learned from many middle-eastern countries is that they have no respect for women. Women are so far down the chain that male on male sex is very common among heterosexuals. Many men prefer young boys. It was so common that we would call it “man-love-Tuesdays.” It was disgusting. In Afghanistan various young boys are dressed up with makeup. I saw women being beatin daily. I remember walking behind a group of men. None of them had anything in their hands. But their women and girls behind them carried everything. The men would turn around and yell at them to hurry up.

Davo said:
There sure are a lot of ignorant posters in denial here who pretend Islam is just another in some long list of religions no different than Episcopalian, or Presbyterian. Your ignorance and denial equate uncivilized Muslim butchery with Christian theology. And it’s ignorance and denial that got thousands of innocent civilians killed, and continue to rack-up the casualty list.

Do you airheads know the actual meanings of “Jihad,” “Sharia,” or “Taqiyah?” Do you know what Muslims believe? Do you know the origin and subsequent history of Islam. No, you don’t. You just find it easy to side with America’s enemies out of mutual contempt for America and for truth.

Since you obviously think everyone who doesn’t share your views on Islam is ignorant please enlighten us. There are over a billions Muslims in the world. What do you propose we do? Start up the internment camps in America? Declare war on all nations with a predominantly Muslim population? How should we solve this problem?

writer said:
Wait a minute. Mormons don’t drink either.

Wink-Wink-Nod-Nod-Know What I Mean, Know What I Mean ….

Exactly! Where in the world did Malkin get the idea that radical Islamists would ever carry out an act of violence?

Bahrain crushes protest camp, locks down capital (AP)

Yes, all those peace loving Muslims screaming “Jew” Jew” Jew” must warm the cuckolds of every lib’s heart.

writer said:
Exactly! Where in the world did Malkin get the idea that radical Islamists would ever carry out an act of violence?

I’ll betcha a million dollars she heard it on Faux “News” or the Babboon told her…

JoeRemi said:
Hey Michelle. Shut. Up.

Take your own advice, son.

im_lovin_it said:
People treat these issues like a football game.

I’ve thought that for quite a while and have seen the sports analogy in several places.

The goals ought to be, discovering and considering the facts, and things like peace, and human life, and recognizing there is good and bad in all people.

It’s not a question of TV or movie absolutes in which we are always good and right and they are always scum who deserve what they get. It’s not a matter of our team winning the game, because ultimately we’re on the same team

notsofast said:
Yes, all those peace loving Muslims screaming “Jew” Jew” Jew” must warm the cuckolds of every lib’s heart.

Utopia is just around the bend, I can already smell it.

Davo said:
There sure are a lot of ignorant posters in denial here who pretend Islam is just another in some long list of religions no different than Episcopalian, or Presbyterian. Your ignorance and denial equate uncivilized Muslim butchery with Christian theology. And it’s ignorance and denial that got thousands of innocent civilians killed, and continue to rack-up the casualty list. Do you airheads know the actual meanings of “Jihad,” “Sharia,” or “Taqiyah?” Do you know what Muslims believe? Do you know the origin and subsequent history of Islam. No, you don’t. You just find it easy to side with America’s enemies out of mutual contempt for America and for truth.

Do you think this might wake a few of them up? Probably not!! From a Muslim site!

Let me begin by praising Allah سبحانه وتعالى, who has control over all the affairs.

The Muslim ummah have nothing if Islam is not implemented in the world. So oh Muslim raise up and take your everything back. Indeed it is the beginning of the end of tyrants and the servants of America and the western world insha’Allah.

I’m Lovin it said:
“Since you obviously think everyone who doesn’t share your views on Islam is ignorant please enlighten us. There are over a billions Muslims in the world. What do you propose we do? Start up the internment camps in America? Declare war on all nations with a predominantly Muslim population? How should we solve this problem?”

The first thing we do is admit there is a problem. Pretending that radical Islam doesn’t exist or that a large percentage of average Muslims don’t share their views won’t make the problem go away. Hell, our own government won’t admit, in the military reports, that radical Islam played a role in the Fort Hood shooting. This is a problem. When a man stands up and screams “Allah Akbar” then proceeds to pump round after round into fellow soldiers there’s a problem with his views. This is just an example.

I sure as hell don’t want to invade any more third-world countries in an effort to push democracy or whatever the neocon excuse was. However, we should treat many of these countries, like Saudi Arabia, as we treated South Africa during Apartheid. Women, as part of their religion, are second class citizens and basically treated as property. Muslim men, just as whites in South Africa, have certain rights and privileges that women will never see.

im_lovin_it said:
“Taqiyah?”

It’s a little early but if you have Padrone I’ll have a little pick me up. Thanks.

CosmosDan said:
I wonder why those radical Muslims rescued her? Strange!

I wonder why those radical Muslims were embracing and kissing some American journalists and hoisting them up on there shoulders?

Could it be that in a community of thousands of people there are both good and bad people in it?

By God, Dan, that could be! What an outstanding observation! We’re talking about the bad people at the moment, if that’s OK with you. You know, the rapists.

i had no idea that a society could have an element that is not nice at all, while having other elements that are very decent human beings. What a revelation!

Pablo said:
By God, Dan, that could be! What an outstanding observation! We’re talking about the bad people at the moment, if that’s OK with you. You know, the rapists.

i had no idea that a society could have an element that is not nice at all, while having other elements that are very decent human beings. What a revelation!

In all fairness (and man no one here does sarcasm like you), some here seem to put all Muslims in the same boat and act as if every single one is a terrorist/rapist/murderer.

Cosmos, you’re right. But suggesting that there could be some bad Muslims is very politically incorrect, and that’s why so many posters are criticizing Malkin.

paulmdoro said:
In all fairness (and man no one here does sarcasm like you), some here seem to put all Muslims in the same boat and act as if every single one is a terrorist/rapist/murderer.

While that certainly happens, I’m not seeing much of it on this thread. Mostly what I’m seeing is the notion that if you’re talking about one segment of “Muslims”, you must be talking about ALL OF THEM, and that’s not fair! Which is your point flipped on it’s head. The truth, obviously, is somewhere in the middle.

some here seem to put all Muslims in the same boat and act as if every single one is a terrorist/rapist/murderer.
—-

Really? Based on exactly what?

paulmdoro said:
Do all Muslims believe the exact same thing? Is every single won a radical bent on destroying America? Should all be judged by the actions of the extremists?

im_lovin_it said:
Since you obviously think everyone who doesn’t share your views on Islam is ignorant please enlighten us.

Why is it that you on the Anti-American Left refuse to do your own research? I did mine, and found answers to questions you only guess and ASSume regarding.

Somehow, I get the idea you would rather display your ignorance by repeating what you’ve heard from others equally as ignorant, than to bother to become informed. And then you wonder why normal people decline to respect your views.

Pablo said:
While that certainly happens, I’m not seeing much of it on this thread. Mostly what I’m seeing is the notion that if you’re talking about one segment of “Muslims”, you must be talking about ALL OF THEM, and that’s not fair! Which is your point flipped on it’s head. The truth, obviously, is somewhere in the middle.

Fair point.

Davo said:
Why is it that you on the Anti-American Left refuse to do your own research? I did mine, and found answers to questions you only guess and ASSume regarding.

Somehow, I get the idea you would rather display your ignorance by repeating what you’ve heard from others equally as ignorant, than to bother to become informed. And then you wonder why normal people decline to respect your views.

The irony of you calling others ignorant is priceless. Normal people do respect my views, because normal and rational people don’t spew trash like “why are you anti-American” just because we don’t agree on every issue.

paul, what state do you reside in? Just curious.

paulmdoro said:
The irony of you calling others ignorant is priceless. Normal people do respect my views, because normal and rational people don’t spew trash like “why are you anti-American” just because we don’t agree on every issue.

So, does that mean you lack the attention span to stay on topic? Or are you just dodging the question I asked you regarding your preference for ignorance?

Davo said:
So, does that mean you lack the attention span to stay on topic? Or are you just dodging the question I asked you regarding your preference for ignorance?

You calling me ignorant doesn’t make it so. Of course I can stay on topic. Can you have an adult conservation and avoid resorting to name-calling and insults?

Davo said:
Why is it that you on the Anti-American Left refuse to do your own research? I did mine, and found answers to questions you only guess and ASSume regarding.

Somehow, I get the idea you would rather display your ignorance by repeating what you’ve heard from others equally as ignorant, than to bother to become informed. And then you wonder why normal people decline to respect your views.

You called me anti-American, ignorant, and you didn’t even answer my question. It’s the internet so it’s easy to act so outrageous, I guess. I just really hope you don’t conduct yourself like this in your day to day life.

paulmdoro said:
You calling me ignorant doesn’t make it so. Of course I can stay on topic. Can you have an adult conservation and avoid resorting to name-calling and insults?

Paul, I know that it is not your nature to insult people, and I respect that. However, if you ever decide you wants to insult Jess or Dav O’, I’ve got a basket of insults you can borrow. No charge to you, my friend.

Especially if someone insults radical Islam, unload on ‘em.

paul?

writer said:
Especially if someone insults radical Islam, unload on ‘em.

It is quite distasteful to be called ignorant and anti-American, among other things, for merely expressing an opinion in a respectful manner. Davo is as bad as anyone else here.

im_lovin_it said:
You called me anti-American, ignorant, and you didn’t even answer my question. It’s the internet so it’s easy to act so outrageous, I guess. I just really hope you don’t conduct yourself like this in your day to day life.

paulmdoro said:
You calling me ignorant doesn’t make it so. Of course I can stay on topic. Can you have an adult conservation and avoid resorting to name-calling and insults?

An “adult conversation” would require your answer to my question that preceded your attempt to divert attention away from it. Since you’re having trouble with that, I’ll repeat:

“Why is it that you on the Anti-American Left refuse to do your own research? I did mine, and found answers to questions you only guess and ASSume regarding.”

The last time we discussed the “anti-American Left” you copped-out and disappeared.

Remember, the topic this time is the Muslim religion, and I identified your ignorance and preference for presumption over your becoming informed on the subject. You’ve done nothing, so far, to either remedy your handicap or show me wrong in identifying it.

Paul, from some other posts I’ve seen, I think you misspelled American. Should say ‘Amerikan’.

paulmdoro said:
It is quite distasteful to be called ignorant and anti-American, among other things, for merely expressing an opinion in a respectful manner. Davo is as bad as anyone else here.

No, he isn’t. Now, what state do you live in and stop running like a little baby.

Davo said:
An “adult conversation” would require your answer to my question that preceded your attempt to divert attention away from it. Since you’re having trouble with that, I’ll repeat:

“Why is it that you on the Anti-American Left refuse to do your own research? I did mine, and found answers to questions you only guess and ASSume regarding.”

The last time we discussed the “anti-American Left” you copped-out and disappeared.

Remember, the topic this time is the Muslim religion, and I identified your ignorance and preference for presumption over your becoming informed on the subject. You’ve done nothing, so far, to either remedy your handicap or show me wrong in identifying it.

You did not identify anyone’s ignorance. You have no idea how much I know about the Muslim religion. I do not refuse to do research. You are rambling incoherently. You could not be more wrong. I don’t need to do anything to prove that. Your posts speak for themselves just fine.

writer said:
Paul, from some other posts I’ve seen, I think you misspelled American. Should say ‘Amerikan’.

Sorry about that writer. My mistake.

That’s okay. It’s the King’s English.

A 2008 survey by the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights found that 83 percent of Egyptian women and 98 percent of foreign women in Cairo said they had been harassed — while 62 percent of men admitted to harassing.

Move along. Nothing to see here. Don’t blame the Islamic culture for the behavior of Muslim men.

paul, davo is spot on and that really pisses you off, doesn’t it?

paulmdoro said:
You did not identify anyone’s ignorance. You have no idea how much I know about the Muslim religion. I do not refuse to do research. You are rambling incoherently. You could not be more wrong. I don’t need to do anything to prove that. Your posts speak for themselves just fine.

Well all-righty, then. The tally now is now TWO cop-outs.

1. Whether the Left is anti-American. (I use the term generically)

2. Why you prefer to spout inaccurate statements out of ignorance of Islam.

You go, girl.

Why would “paul” not want to admit he lives in san francisco? Weird.

Davo said:
Well all-righty, then. The tally now is now TWO cop-outs.

1. Whether the Left is anti-American. (I use the term generically)

2. Why you prefer to spout inaccurate statements out of ignorance of Islam.

You go, girl.

The left is not anti-American. Millions of people do not hate their country. That’s an absurd generalization completely removed from reality. It makes no sense. It’s nonsensical.

Which of my statements did you find inaccurate and why?

Ah yes, because you are such a real man. Very clever. That wit. Women must adore you.

Pablo said:
While that certainly happens, I’m not seeing much of it on this thread. Mostly what I’m seeing is the notion that if you’re talking about one segment of “Muslims”, you must be talking about ALL OF THEM, and that’s not fair! Which is your point flipped on it’s head. The truth, obviously, is somewhere in the middle.

It is indeed, and the subject was specifically RADICAL Islam which fairly separates all Muslims from the extremists. My point, that I’m sure you got despite your sarcasm, was that the leap was made in the clip from this incident of horrible violence, to radical Islam. The fact is we don’t know although Malkin takes the opportunity to insist it is fact while also taking a cheap shot at other media for making clear what for her is factual.

She was attacked and rescued by people, Egyptians, probably Muslims, so implying this is clearly connected to radical Islam seems to be what this poster said.

. “Michelle Malkin is taking advantage of a terrible act of violence to make political points”

Radical Islam is certainly an issue and so is violence against women and women’s rights in cultures, but I don’t think we can connect this particular act with either of those things very clearly or specifically.

Olby Sucks said:
Why would “paul” not want to admit he lives in san francisco? Weird.

He won’t admit he likes Rice -A-Roni either. He’s odd.

OxyCon said:
Move along. Nothing to see here. Don’t blame the Islamic culture for the behavior of Muslim men.

You know how many sexual assaults there were in the US last year?

Olby Sucks said:
No, he isn’t. Now, what state do you live in and stop running like a little baby.

That’s irrelevant and nobody has to share personal information here to voice and opinion.

I’ve never been to San Francisco, but I’ve heard that Tony Bennett left his heart there.

CosmosDan said:
That’s irrelevant and nobody has to share personal information here to voice and opinion.

It’s very relevant as it has to do with a comment he made yesterday. He knows his answer will make him look stupid which is why he runs like a baby.

A passerby found it and was horrified.

paulmdoro said:
The left is not anti-American. Millions of people do not hate their country. That’s an absurd generalization completely removed from reality. It makes no sense. It’s nonsensical.

Which of my statements did you find inaccurate and why?

Ah yes, because you are such a real man. Very clever. That wit. Women must adore you.

In reverse order:

No complaints. Used to be a musician, so I’m used to the adoration. But thanx for asking.

Scroll back up to my original post and your response. Your questions were statements, not questions. Get clued-up, then we can talk. Read and study the Quoran, and as I suggested, study the inception and history of Islam. THEN, you are qualified to have an opinion. Otherwise……………just check the dictionary for the definition of “ignorance.”

If you want to debate my generic use of “anti-American Left” then bring your “A-game.” I gave you a hint before that the Constitution proves my point.

writer said:
Cosmos, you’re right. But suggesting that there could be some bad Muslims is very politically incorrect, and that’s why so many posters are criticizing Malkin.

I don’t believe that . pretty much everyone is aware that there are radical Muslim’s as well as anti American sentiment among some who aren’t so radical. What ‘s frowned upon is lumping all Muslims into one mindset. That seems incredibly ignorant to me.

FTR; I don’t think Malkin did that. I think she made a leap from the assault against Logan to some political point about radical Islam. I don’t see there any clear connection. she also took the opportunity to take a shot at other media for not reporting a connection she basically made up.
How does she know what the root cause was of the attack on Logan?

Davo said:
In reverse order:

No complaints. Used to be a musician, so I’m used to the adoration. But thanx for asking.

Scroll back up to my original post and your response. Your questions were statements, not questions. Get clued-up, then we can talk. Read and study the Quoran, and as I suggested, study the inception and history of Islam. THEN, you are qualified to have an opinion. Otherwise……………just check the dictionary for the definition of “ignorance.”

If you want to debate my generic use of “anti-American Left” then bring your “A-game.” I gave you a hint before that the Constitution proves my point.

They were questions, hence the question marks.

Only people who have read the Qu’ran (what’s Quoran?) have qualified opinions about Islam? That means pretty much everyone here can’t discuss Islam. No one needs your permission or approval to have and state opinions of Islam.

How can someone possibly debate a person who truly believes that millions of Americans hate their country? How could I possibly convince you? I love this country. So do all the liberals I know.

You call me ignorant, but stating that the left hates America is the pinnacle of ignorance.

writer said:
I’ve never been to San Francisco, but I’ve heard that Tony Bennett left his heart there.

I was curious about their space program. How do they get those cable cars to climb half way to the stars?

CosmosDan said:
You know how many sexual assaults there were in the US last year?

Since you seem to have either a soft spot for the Islamic culture in Egypt, or a disdain for American culture by trying a false moral equivalency defense for the overwhelming sexual predatorial behavior of Egyptian men, why do you choose to live in America and not Egypt if we’re supposedly just as bad as them? Or do you just enjoy making nonsensical arguments just for the purpose of being contradictorial?

Cosmos, the cable cars are pressurized. And Malkin was referring to radical Islamists. Since they’re known for treating women in the same manner as Charlie Sheen, it’s not such a stretch.

I think she made a leap from the assault against Logan to some political point about radical Islam.
—-

Maybe cause radical islamists attacked her? Think before you post, please.

paulmdoro said:
Only people who have read the Qu’ran (what’s Quoran?) have qualified opinions about Islam?

Yes. That’s logical.

paulmdoro said:
How can someone possibly debate a person who truly believes that millions of Americans hate their country? How could I possibly convince you?

OK then. The tally remains at TWO cop-outs.

Olby Sucks said:
Maybe cause radical islamists attacked her? Think before you post, please.

LOL!! That’s dam good advice, for you.

You have no idea about the men that attacked her. You’re assuming everything and telling ME to think before I post. That’s funny.

Davo said:
Yes. That’s logical.

OK then. The tally remains at TWO cop-outs.

Then why don’t you tell everyone else here commenting on Islam that they are ignorant? That they have to read the Qu’ran before they are qualified to share opinions of Islam? And who made you in charge of this anyway? Does one have to read L. Ron Hubbard to have an opinion of Scientology?

It isn’t a cop-out. You believe millions of Americans not like you hate their country. That is ignorant. It is obtuse. It is foolish.

Davo said:
Yes. That’s logical.

OK then. The tally remains at TWO cop-outs.

Was I a cop out? Sorry, I have other things to do besides battle you at Mediaite. My original question, that I asked first (God, I can’t believe how childish that sounds) is what you would do about the +1,000,000,000 Muslims in the world. You obviously despise their religion and consider them the enemy. Kill them all?

CosmosDan said:
My point, that I’m sure you got despite your sarcasm, was that the leap was made in the clip from this incident of horrible violence, to radical Islam.

Because you can’t see how the two could possibly be connected?

Radical Islam is certainly an issue and so is violence against women and women’s rights in cultures, but I don’t think we can connect this particular act with either of those things very clearly or specifically.

Nope, apparently not.

im_lovin_it said:
My original question, that I asked first (God, I can’t believe how childish that sounds) is what you would do about the +1,000,000,000 Muslims in the world. You obviously despise their religion and consider them the enemy. Kill them all?

How is that obvious? What was said that makes that obvious to you? Specifically.

writer said:
Cosmos, the cable cars are pressurized. And Malkin was referring to radical Islamists. Since they’re known for treating women in the same manner as Charlie Sheen, it’s not such a stretch.

I think we’re blurring a couple of issues.

Radical Islam IMO, is more of a theocratic political movement. They want there more fundamental version of Islam to be the political guideline as well. They also see the west, America and Israel in particular as the evil enemy.

We have no way of realistically claiming that Logan’s attack was political thing or even a hatred for America. We just don’t know.

Violence against women IMO is a related but somewhat separate issue. It’s more cultural than political. Even then, since it was probably, Muslim men who assaulted her, but also Muslim women and men who rescued her, I have a hard time making a clear connection between her attack and radical Islam.
Is it possible? Sure. But the whole white wash thing Malkin did struck me as over the top.

Pablo said:
How is that obvious? What was said that makes that obvious to you? Specifically.

We asked specific questions, and in reply Davo called us ignorant and anti-American without answering the questions. If he disagreed, he should have said so and stated his case. Instead, he just called us names and ignored the questions.

We just don’t know.
—-

Speak for yourself, please.

and ignored the questions.

—

Hypocrite much?

Pablo said:
Because you can’t see how the two could possibly be connected?

I don’t see any good reason to assume and state such a connection as fact when it’s not clear at all. I don’t see any reason to indicate other networks “whitewash” the facts, when Malkin is just assuming them.

Pablo said:
Nope, apparently not.

Glad you saw the light.

paulmdoro said:
Instead, he just called us names and ignored the questions.

And that is license to ascribe “obvious hatred” of all Muslims?

CosmosDan said:
LOL!! That’s dam good advice, for you.

You have no idea about the men that attacked her. You’re assuming everything and telling ME to think before I post. That’s funny.

“Jew, Jew, Jew!”

Ring any bells?

CosmosDan said:
Glad you saw the light.

Yeah. It looks burned out. Maybe one of those curly bulbs will work.

Pablo said:
And that is license to ascribe “obvious hatred” of all Muslims?

Oh no not at all Pablo, and I didn’t make that claim.

CosmosDan said:
Gosh, writer, you’re venturing into some dark waters buddy.

.
Dark but right on point satire especially here with those commenters who have dragged Mormonism thru the mud in their sick desire to hurt another commenter here.

Of course, you might see things differently and there’s nothing wrong with that.

True, Cosmos. We don’t know the rapists’ political mindset. But if Malkin wants to slam radical Islamists, I’m not going to rush to their defense and say that Malkin’s theory is that far fetched.

paulmdoro said:
Then why don’t you tell everyone else here commenting on Islam that they are ignorant? That they have to read the Qu’ran before they are qualified to share opinions of Islam? And who made you in charge of this anyway?

Previously you said “qualified” opinions and yes, I logically require opinions to be validated by education. Without education, those opinions are based on ignorant…………..err…………..’non-informed’ suppositions. Again, I suggest you check Websters for a definition of ‘ignorance.’

Lemme try and be more diplomatic about this. Many times on this site you make statements based on nothing but rhetoric. When I call your hand and you fold, I call that a “cop-out.” There’s just no ‘nice’ way to spin it.

As a Conservative, I’m always willing to back up what I state. I suggest you resist the Liberal urge in making assertions you cannot support, then whine when getting challenged on ‘um. If you want to confront any of my statements, then like I said………bring your ‘A-Game” or accept being identified as a superficial fraud. There’s enough BS in this world, and we don’t need you adding to it.

Davo said:
Previously you said “qualified” opinions and yes, I logically require opinions to be validated by education. Without education, those opinions are based on ignorant…………..err…………..’non-informed’ suppositions. Again, I suggest you check Websters for a definition of ‘ignorance.’

Lemme try and be more diplomatic about this. Many times on this site you make statements based on nothing but rhetoric. When I call your hand and you fold, I call that a “cop-out.” There’s just no ‘nice’ way to spin it.

As a Conservative, I’m always willing to back up what I state. I suggest you resist the Liberal urge in making assertions you cannot support, then whine when getting challenged on ‘um. If you want to confront any of my statements, then like I said………bring your ‘A-Game” or accept being identified as a superficial fraud. There’s enough BS in this world, and we don’t need you adding to it.

That’s you being diplomatic? And you give yourself way too much credit. Arrogant much?

I like your tactics though. “Prove you love America liberal, or you are a fraud.” That makes a lot of sense and isn’t BS at all.

What happens when you have a pretty little infidel woman who doesn’t “know her place” amidst 200 radical Islamists?

A. They run away before she can attack them with her Zionist hair rays.

B. They write her a sternly worded letter.

C. They gently describe the error of her ways and offer to escort her to safety.

D. What happened to Lara Logan.

Pablo said:
How is that obvious? What was said that makes that obvious to you? Specifically.

“Davo” said this……

There sure are a lot of ignorant posters in denial here who pretend Islam is just another in some long list of religions no different than Episcopalian, or Presbyterian. Your ignorance and denial equate uncivilized Muslim butchery with Christian theology. And it’s ignorance and denial that got thousands of innocent civilians killed, and continue to rack-up the casualty list.

Do you airheads know the actual meanings of “Jihad,” “Sharia,” or “Taqiyah?” Do you know what Muslims believe? Do you know the origin and subsequent history of Islam. No, you don’t. You just find it easy to side with America’s enemies out of mutual contempt for America and for truth.

I asked him what we should do about Muslims then? He responded by calling me names. I’m not trying to argue that Islam is not without it’s faults. There are over a billion followers of it, however. I’d like to know what his approach should be in regards to foreign policy.

Pablo said:
What happens when you have a pretty little infidel woman who doesn’t “know her place” amidst 200 radical Islamists?

A. They run away before she can attack them with her Zionist hair rays.

B. They write her a sternly worded letter.

C. They gently describe the error of her ways and offer to escort her to safety.

D. What happened to Lara Logan.

D?

im_lovin_it said:

I asked him what we should do about Muslims then? He responded by calling me names. I’m not trying to argue that Islam is not without it’s faults. There are over a billion followers of it, however. I’d like to know what his approach should be in regards to foreign policy.

That’s all Davo does. Don’t expect anything other than more insults.

OxyCon said:
Since you seem to have either a soft spot for the Islamic culture in Egypt, or a disdain for American culture by trying a false moral equivalency defense for the overwhelming sexual predatorial behavior of Egyptian men, why do you choose to live in America and not Egypt if we’re supposedly just as bad as them?

That’s funny because this kind of bullshit was just mentioned earlier in the thread.

As soon as someone tries to make a point that sees more detail and nuance in an issue they get accused of being an Islam loving anti American. What utter crap.

We’re talking about an incident of sexual assault and you implied that we should judge Muslim men by the actions of Muslim men,meaning this sexual assault.. You completely missed the more nuanced point being made but no matter.

My point was that, if it’s perfectly reasonable to judge Muslim men by an act of senseless violence and attach that violence to their religion {which you’re assuming} then maybe it’s just as reasonable to judge American men by the senseless acts of violence committed here. Let’s have one standard to judge by.
Of course we might also judge Muslims by the Muslim men and women who rescued her if we wanted to give credit where credit is due. We might even have sense enough to realize that in any society there are good people and bad people, regardless of nation or religion.

paulmdoro said:
D?

Nah, there can’t be any connection to radical Islam! I read it on the internet.

Grammie said:
Dark but right on point satire especially here with those commenters who have dragged Mormonism thru the mud in their sick desire to hurt another commenter here.

Hey, I even joined in the fun with a Mormon joke of my own. I just hesitate to make rape jokes in a thread discussing Logan.

Pablo said:
Nah, there can’t be any connection to radical Islam! I read it on the internet.

Aw so I failed? Darn it.

paul=hypocrite

im_lovin_it said:
I asked him what we should do about Muslims then? He responded by calling me names. I’m not trying to argue that Islam is not without it’s faults. There are over a billion followers of it, however. I’d like to know what his approach should be in regards to foreign policy.

Did you notice what we joked about earlier just happened. I tried to make a more nuanced point and was immediately accused of being a Islam loving Anti American who should move to Egypt since I sympathize with them so much.

Olby Sucks said:
paul=hypocrite

Can’t you find another thread or board to stalk someone on?

Yeah, I saw that. Sorry. At least you aren’t ignorant and uneducated like me. :(

paulmdoro said:
That’s you being diplomatic? And you give yourself way too much credit. Arrogant much?

I like your tactics though. “Prove you love America liberal, or you are a fraud.” That makes a lot of sense and isn’t BS at all.

paulmdoro said:
That’s all Davo does. Don’t expect anything other than more insults.

One of us is inviting debate, and the other is whining. That still adds-up to TWO cop-outs and counting…………..

Davo said:
One of us is inviting debate, and the other is whining. That still adds-up to TWO cop-outs and counting…………..

You invite debate by calling people names and not answering questions? Interesting tactic. There are better ones though.

You still never answered the original question from way back when. If Muslims are a serious problem, what is to be done?

CosmosDan said:
I’ve thought that for quite a while and have seen the sports analogy in several places.

The goals ought to be, discovering and considering the facts, and things like peace, and human life, and recognizing there is good and bad in all people.

It’s not a question of TV or movie absolutes in which we are always good and right and they are always scum who deserve what they get. It’s not a matter of our team winning the game, because ultimately we’re on the same team

.
All you say is true but a truth that stops so short and ignores larger realities.

I saw a very well educated, obviously competent and self assured Muslim lady on one of the talk shows a few weeks ago. I wish now I could remember enough details to link to it now, but I can’t.

She spoke of the position that women have in Muslim society. They are not considered to be much more than chattel in many such societies.

We’ve all heard of a male family member escort required for Muslim women when going out in public in many Muslim societies. She pointed out that the requirement for such denial of freedom to the woman is based upon the fact that Muslim men consider such women as prey and deserving of whatever comes their way.

This attitude is codified in Sharia law. Sharia Law has some truly horrifying codes. Rape can only be proved by multiple male witnesses. Without that there is no rape and the woman is subject to brutal punishments including death.

In the decade before WWII many civilized people in the democracies had a similar attitude towards Germany. Many famous people overlooked the disturbing evidence and were blinded by their own open mindedness to making no judgments of the details of how others ordered their societies.

They at least had the excuse of mostly filtered info. We today have all the evidence we need to make our judgments.

Occupying Afghanistan gave us the same insight into Islamic rule as liberating Auschwitz, Treblinka and other such sites gave us into the horror that was Nazi Germany.

They have told us that their aim is to conquer us and convert us to their religion and way of life or to eliminate us. I take them at their word and although I don’t think they will succeed I do think we would be fools to not recognize them for what they are and to act accordingly.

You, of course, may view it differently and want to find common ground in the humanity that we all share. Continue to look for and find every such incident. But please do not simultaneously close your eyes to the brutal realities that are far too abundant.

CosmosDan said:
That’s funny because this kind of bullshit was just mentioned earlier in the thread.

As soon as someone tries to make a point that sees more detail and nuance in an issue they get accused of being an Islam loving anti American. What utter crap.

We’re talking about an incident of sexual assault and you implied that we should judge Muslim men by the actions of Muslim men,meaning this sexual assault.. You completely missed the more nuanced point being made but no matter.

My point was that, if it’s perfectly reasonable to judge Muslim men by an act of senseless violence and attach that violence to their religion {which you’re assuming} then maybe it’s just as reasonable to judge American men by the senseless acts of violence committed here. Let’s have one standard to judge by.
Of course we might also judge Muslims by the Muslim men and women who rescued her if we wanted to give credit where credit is due. We might even have sense enough to realize that in any society there are good people and bad people, regardless of nation or religion.

The whole “nuance” meme is the bullshit part of your argument. Look, I used to be a Leftist Asshat, so I know all the ridiculous tactics asshats employ and false moral equivalency is numero uno (well, maybe dos after race baiting), and that’s what you’re engaging in. And it isn’t a coincidence either that whenever an asshat whips out the false moral equivalency argument, it’s always used in such a way as to denigrate America. “X does something horrible – well America does it too!” But don’t you accuse an asshat of hating America! They love it!

As for you implying that Islamic religious culture treats women in an equal and dignified as western culture, then you’re being utterly clueless and beyond reasoning with. As I said before, if you think Islamic religious culture is just as good as western culture, then hasta la vista baby! Put your money where your mouth is. I hear the pyramids are beautiful at sunset. If not, then quit the ridiculously equating the two. There’s no “nuance” to what you are doing.

paulmdoro said:
You still never answered the original question from way back when. If Muslims are a serious problem, what is to be done?

That’s a good question but you don’t have the background for an in-depth and specific exchange on the matter. But basically, the Muslim belief requires an “all-or-nothing” acceptance of Sharia. With Muslims, the law is not separate from the religion. It’s a culture so different from ours that presuming to predict Muslim actions or reactions is as ineffective as speaking Chinese to a child who’s never heard the language.

Muslims believe that allah created the world for them exclusively. The day of “Jihad” is the day they think allah means for them to arise and take what ‘rightfully’ belongs to them. The “radical” Muslims believe that day is NOW. The “non-radical” Muslims believe that day has not YET arrived. That’s the only difference. One cannot be a Muslim without looking to the day of “Jihad” the same as one cannot be a Christian without belief in the day of Glory when Christ returns.

Nazi’s had a similar belief that they were ordained by God to be the leaders of the world. Subscribers to BOTH belief systems will never be satiated with partial effectiveness or on-going peaceful co-existence with other belief systems. They are simply not compatible with tolerance of other beliefs.

Since Muslims’ beliefs instigated the aggression they practice with their vow to the destruction of all “infidels,” their belief system must be destroyed the same way the Nazi belief system was destroyed……………the price of practicing that belief must be raised to a level they are NO LONGER WILLING TO PAY. That’s not very palatable, but those beliefs don’t offer alternatives. The insanity is in pretending that the Muslim problem will magically evaporate somehow, or that we can “nice” them into finding a new “hobby.”

Does that answer your question? The resolution of the Muslim problem is my ‘informed opinion’ that’s formed with information supplied by study of both the Muslim belief and the history of Muslim behavior……………neither of which are “opinions.”

Davo said:
Davo says:
February 17, 2011 at 3:20 pm

.
Very well said.

Grammie said:
.
All you say is true but a truth that stops so short and ignores larger realities.

I saw a very well educated, obviously competent and self assured Muslim lady on one of the talk shows a few weeks ago. I wish now I could remember enough details to link to it now, but I can’t.

She spoke of the position that women have in Muslim society. They are not considered to be much more than chattel in many such societies.

We’ve all heard of a male family member escort required for Muslim women when going out in public in many Muslim societies. She pointed out that the requirement for such denial of freedom to the woman is based upon the fact that Muslim men consider such women as prey and deserving of whatever comes their way.

This attitude is codified in Sharia law. Sharia Law has some truly horrifying codes. Rape can only be proved by multiple male witnesses. Without that there is no rape and the woman is subject to brutal punishments including death.

In the decade before WWII many civilized people in the democracies had a similar attitude towards Germany. Many famous people overlooked the disturbing evidence and were blinded by their own open mindedness to making no judgments of the details of how others ordered their societies.

They at least had the excuse of mostly filtered info. We today have all the evidence we need to make our judgments.

Occupying Afghanistan gave us the same insight into Islamic rule as liberating Auschwitz, Treblinka and other such sites gave us into the horror that was Nazi Germany.

They have told us that their aim is to conquer us and convert us to their religion and way of life or to eliminate us. I take them at their word and although I don’t think they will succeed I do think we would be fools to not recognize them for what they are and to act accordingly.

You, of course, may view it differently and want to find common ground in the humanity that we all share. Continue to look for and find every such incident. But please do not simultaneously close your eyes to the brutal realities that are far too abundant.

Do you realize you are defining Sharia as seen through the eyes of the extreme Islamists….right? Honest question, do you have any experience living with or knowing any Muslims intimately? (I’m talking about people you didn’t READ about)

Davo said:
That’s a good question but you don’t have the background for an in-depth and specific exchange on the matter. But basically, the Muslim belief requires an “all-or-nothing” acceptance of Sharia. With Muslims, the law is not separate from the religion. It’s a culture so different from ours that presuming to predict Muslim actions or reactions is as ineffective as speaking Chinese to a child who’s never heard the language.

Muslims believe that allah created the world for them exclusively. The day of “Jihad” is the day they think allah means for them to arise and take what ‘rightfully’ belongs to them. The “radical” Muslims believe that day is NOW. The “non-radical” Muslims believe that day has not YET arrived. That’s the only difference. One cannot be a Muslim without looking to the day of “Jihad” the same as one cannot be a Christian without belief in the day of Glory when Christ returns.

Nazi’s had a similar belief that they were ordained by God to be the leaders of the world. Subscribers to BOTH belief systems will never be satiated with partial effectiveness or on-going peaceful co-existence with other belief systems. They are simply not compatible with tolerance of other beliefs.

Since Muslims’ beliefs instigated the aggression they practice with their vow to the destruction of all “infidels,” their belief system must be destroyed the same way the Nazi belief system was destroyed……………the price of practicing that belief must be raised to a level they are NO LONGER WILLING TO PAY. That’s not very palatable, but those beliefs don’t offer alternatives. The insanity is in pretending that the Muslim problem will magically evaporate somehow, or that we can “nice” them into finding a new “hobby.”

Does that answer your question? The resolution of the Muslim problem is my ‘informed opinion’ that’s formed with information supplied by study of both the Muslim belief and the history of Muslim behavior……………neither of which are “opinions.”

Did you learn that from the Pat Robertson school of theology because you are clueless.

Davo,

What about the Ottoman Empire? That was the last great Muslim Empire, right? They were tolerant of the religious beliefs of others. Weren’t prior Islamic empires also peaceful towards Jews and Christians living in Islam owned lands?

Your solution of: “their belief system must be destroyed the same way the Nazi belief system was destroyed……………the price of practicing that belief must be raised to a level they are NO LONGER WILLING TO PAY.”

I just don’t see how that will work without killing us all. What methods would you suggest for raising the price of practicing the belief? Nazis were a defined enemy that could be combated. Fighting Islam? I don’t see how that’s the same.

Finally, thanks for providing insight without being disrespectful. You obviously know a thing or two about the subject, so share it. No need to be so scornful. We’re all in this together.

Also Davo, what about the millions of Muslims living here in the United States? We even have on in Congress. What should we do to them? Yes, I know about the guy in Buffalo who cut his wife’s head off. He was a sadistic jerk. There are millions of Muslims in this country who seem to be living peacefully among us.

Gasket said:
Do you realize you are defining Sharia as seen through the eyes of the extreme Islamists….right? Honest question, do you have any experience living with or knowing any Muslims intimately? (I’m talking about people you didn’t READ about)

.
Why yes I do.

Do you realize that “Sharia as seen through the eyes of the extreme Islamists” are those very same people who are conducting this Jihad against us and as such I consider them, their views and their movement very seriously.

“Honest question, do you have any experience living with or knowing any Muslims intimately?”

No, nor have I ever had such a relationship with either a Nazi or any Jewish survivors (although I have had friends who were such) of the Nazi’s earlier attempt to subjugate the world to their particular brand of Jihad.

Your point is?

Gasket said:
Do you realize you are defining Sharia as seen through the eyes of the extreme Islamists….right?

Sharia comes directly from the Koran and the Hadith. As far as Muslims are concerned, there is nothing “extreme” about it.

im_lovin_it said:
Also Davo, what about the millions of Muslims living here in the United States? We even have on in Congress. What should we do to them? Yes, I know about the guy in Buffalo who cut his wife’s head off. He was a sadistic jerk. There are millions of Muslims in this country who seem to be living peacefully among us.

.
I can’t speak for Davo but we do have a precedent in the Nazi Bund prior to WWII. They were a very strong seditious group who lived among us but were tracked closely by the FBI. Many people are unaware of it b/c all the attention was paid to the Japanese Internment but FDR interned many Germans once the hot war broke out and they were released much slower and spent, in some cases, years in interment after the war was over.

I support every effort being made today and am dismayed by the tone in our current Admin as illustrated by the Hasan affair mentioned by Davo.

We as citizens can also continue to speak out and try to get our views known as I’m doing today. Beyond that I have no choice but to trust to those in charge and exert any influence I can upon them to take a realistic view void of all the PC crap that our popular culture seems to be burying their heads in a la an ostrich.

Grammie said:
.
I can’t speak for Davo but we do have a precedent in the Nazi Bund prior to WWII. They were a very strong seditious group who lived among us but were tracked closely by the FBI. Many people are unaware of it b/c all the attention was paid to the Japanese Internment but FDR interned many Germans once the hot war broke out and they were released much slower and spent, in some cases, years in interment after the war was over.

I support every effort being made today and am dismayed by the tone in our current Admin as illustrated by the Hasan affair mentioned by Davo.

We as citizens can also continue to speak out and try to get our views known as I’m doing today. Beyond that I have no choice but to trust to those in charge and exert any influence I can upon them to take a realistic view void of all the PC crap that our popular culture seems to be burying their heads in a la an ostrich.

So would you say you support the process of internment? What was that Ben Franklin quote, those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither?

The other day I recall you posting that you were frustrated being called a racist simply due to your political affiliation. That’s much the same way that people who lean to the left feel about international terrorism. I’ve been called anti American numerous times on this thread, yet I have loved ones in the Armed Forces putting their lives on the line for our country. I’m well aware of the dangers in our world.

OxyCon said:
The whole “nuance” meme is the bullshit part of your argument. Look, I used to be a Leftist Asshat, so I know all the ridiculous tactics asshats employ and false moral equivalency is numero uno (well, maybe dos after race baiting), and that’s what you’re engaging in. And it isn’t a coincidence either that whenever an asshat whips out the false moral equivalency argument, it’s always used in such a way as to denigrate America.

Honest, nuance isn’t meant as some phony tool to “win” an argument. I prefer to look at things accurately and often find the generalizations used are missing some important details. That’s where nuance comes in for me.

I don’t think I engaged in false moral equivalency. Maybe you can explain how what I did is false exactly. I also did nothing to denigrate America.
IMO if I made any comparisons it was to compare a sexual assault in Egypt to a sexual assault in the US. Wouldn’t there be a true equivalence rather than a false one if I’m talking about about acts of sexual assault against women? How is it false? It’s not denigrating America to simply recognize that we have sexual assaults here. That’s a fact.

OxyCon said:
As for you implying that Islamic religious culture treats women in an equal and dignified as western culture, then you’re being utterly clueless and beyond reasoning with.

I didn’t imply any such thing. You are reading something into my response that isn’t there. You;re insulting my thinking with things you imagined I said. That’s a habit I see a lot in these threads. That’s faulty reasoning on your part.

The subject of discussion was one specific act of violence against a woman. Is the assumed religion of the men a factor in that violent act? We don’t know. You seemed to assume it was with your comment about Muslim men. I think that’s a bogus standard to judge by.
If we’re going to judge a group by the actions of a few then apply that same standard {which I think is unfair on it’s face} to all groups , including Americans. That’s fair right. Using the same standard?

The question and the discussion was not about how Islam and Muslim men treat their women in general. If you wanted to make some point about that then be clear that you’re changing the subject.

Just out of curiosity, I looked up rapes per capita. Would it surprise you to know that the US is in the top 10 along with Canada and several other non Muslim countries.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
Since Egypt wasn’t on that list I kept looking Here’s some more recent stats for 08 and 09.
US, considerably higher than Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Just maybe there’s a difference between a cultural oppression of women’s rights and equality, and sexual assaults. What do you think?

Grammie said:
Your point is?

He doesn’t have one………hence the ‘drive-by one liner answers.

im_lovin_it said:
Also Davo, what about the millions of Muslims living here in the United States? We even have on in Congress. What should we do to them? Yes, I know about the guy in Buffalo who cut his wife’s head off. He was a sadistic jerk. There are millions of Muslims in this country who seem to be living peacefully among us.

Since your question seems sincere and without double-standard presumptions this time, I’ll try to answer in like kind.

The Quoran (or Koran, or Q’ran as Paul prefers) teaches Muslims to “peacefully co-exist” until their numbers are large enough to fight to instate Sharia law. When their numbers are even larger, they are instructed to outlaw all other religions, and either kill or convert the “infidels.” Now, there are a few intermediate situations including forcing non-Muslims to pay homage and etc., but I’m giving you the main steps so you can identify the development stage of any country Muslims have moved into.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and most other ME countries were at one time Christian nations. Muslims used the above techniques as instructed to eventually overthrow their governments and institute their form of Fascism. Egypt and Saudi Arabia have strongly developed Muslim make-up, with national leaders less apt (until last week) to reject America as the “Great Satan.” Iran revolted against the Shah hoping to have a more democratic existence as many now think the Egyptians want today. But we know that power in Iran was seized upon by Muslim rule as we (rigyht-wingers) fear will happen in Egypt. Muslims simply practice what they preach……….zero tolerance.

If you look at European nations who made the mistake we’re making today in the US, that Muslims can integrate modernize into their societies, you’ll see varying degrees of the evolution of Muslim take-over used in the ME countries. France, Netherlands, Germany, and England made the PRESUMPTIONS that anti-American Lef…………….err…………….Left-Leaning Americans make and are currently suffering in degrees varying coincidentally with their foolish acceptance of Islam as a “peaceful and tolerant co-exister.”

So, what do we do? I don’t know the specifics, but as I said……….they will have to be shown a price higher than their available “budgets” for continuing the belief system. Japan had to be nuked to make them re-think their commitment to fight to the death for their Emperor. Nazi’s had to be bombed until they realized there would be nothing left of Berlin or Dresden larger than an American quarter if they continued to fight. “Unconditional Surrender” is the only acceptable response that will put an end to ANY belief system incompatible with civilized life on Earth.

It’s interesting if morbid to debate various possiblities to force Muslims to “find a new hobby.” It will take major resolve and coordinated campaigns, both violent and peaceful to achieve such and end to the 7th Century barbarism. But Muslims have made it clear that they will continue their butchery against innocent and peaceful civilians around the world if not stopped with overwhelming force.

OxyCon said:
Sharia comes directly from the Koran and the Hadith. As far as Muslims are concerned, there is nothing “extreme” about it.

In a group of 1.5 billion people of a certain religion , it’s almost certain that not all see things the same and Sharia is not interpreted the same for all Muslims , just as all Christians don’t get the same message from the Bible.

CosmosDan said:
Can’t you find another thread or board to stalk someone on?

Pointing out the fact that “paul” is a hypocrite is not stalking. Interesting how you always come to his “defense.”

Not every Christian is a Koresh. Not every conservative is a McVeigh. And not every Muslim is a binLadin. BUT, every employee of Fox News is a paid parrot of the views of Der Ruppert. They constantly cite as “sources” other properties owned by their boss without mentioning the ties. Full disclosure is non-existent. They are a propaganda outlet for the Plutocrats who are buying the Congress and the Supreme Court.

Davo,

The Quoran (or Koran, or Q’ran as Paul prefers) teaches Muslims to “peacefully co-exist” until their numbers are large enough to fight to instate Sharia law. When their numbers are even larger, they are instructed to outlaw all other religions, and either kill or convert the “infidels.” Now, there are a few intermediate situations including forcing non-Muslims to pay homage and etc., but I’m giving you the main steps so you can identify the development stage of any country Muslims have moved into.

I have a few questions here. The Ottoman Empire existed for hundreds of years under Sharia law. With them having clear majorities over the Jews and Christians under their domain, why were they not killed or converted? Also, I thought forced conversion was against sharia law. I’m sure that forced conversions happen, but I believe the Quran forbids it.

im_lovin_it said:
So would you say you support the process of internment? What was that Ben Franklin quote, those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither?

.
A tough nut for me but in the end I come down on balance in favor of the concept if not the actual implementation as it was done during WWII. The abuses may have been inevitable due to human nature but the fear of such a large population with uncertain views can not be summarily dismissed give the times. BTW, the actual quote is, I believe, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty. “.

im_lovin_it said:
The other day I recall you posting that you were frustrated being called a racist simply due to your political affiliation. That’s much the same way that people who lean to the left feel about international terrorism. I’ve been called anti American numerous times on this thread, yet I have loved ones in the Armed Forces putting their lives on the line for our country. I’m well aware of the dangers in our world.

I don’t doubt that at all. However, have you ever heard it from me directed at you or any other?

That said, there are elements on the very far right who are philosophically racist just as there are element on the very far left who are philosophically anti America, The first works for a redefined America with the white race completely dominant and the latter for a redefined America with Marxism the only ideology. Of course, there are various shades to all of them

I, therefore, do consider Bill Ayers et al as anti American just as I consider the Aryan Nation as racists. They condemn themselves from their own mouths. I do try to be careful with my words, especially the written word that lacks so much of the nuance of speech.

CosmosDan said:
In a group of 1.5 billion people of a certain religion , it’s almost certain that not all see things the same and Sharia is not interpreted the same for all Muslims , just as all Christians don’t get the same message from the Bible.

That’s actually quite wrong. No, every Muslim doesn’t see everything identically, nor does every Christian see things the same. But Christians MUST accept the perfect sacrifice of the perfect Christ as payment for our transgressions…………….no variance possible. Muslims MUST accept the rules of Sharia, including the Jihad we’re experiencing today.

You may be making the common mistake of not understanding the patience coupled with resolve these people have. Their mission has been going on for 1600 years, and will continue until they are stopped, or until they succeed. There are, however, 12th-ers who believe they are the ‘chosen one’ to ignite the final Jihad. There’s evidence that Ahmadinejad is one………………..and that makes him one dangerous lil’ sh*t.

Davo said:
Davo says:
February 17, 2011 at 4:20 pm

.
Again well said!

Joseph Glackin said:
Not every Christian is a Koresh. Not every conservative is a McVeigh. And not every Muslim is a binLadin. BUT, every employee of Fox News is a paid parrot of the views of Der Ruppert. They constantly cite as “sources” other properties owned by their boss without mentioning the ties. Full disclosure is non-existent. They are a propaganda outlet for the Plutocrats who are buying the Congress and the Supreme Court.

.
And you, sir, are an idiot!

Grammie said:
.
Again well said!

So, are you saying that it’s the End of Days, Janet. That the 12th Imam has risen from the well to institute the Caliphate? Dear me. I have no survival seeds.

Davo said:
That’s actually quite wrong. No, every Muslim doesn’t see everything identically, nor does every Christian see things the same. But Christians MUST accept the perfect sacrifice of the perfect Christ as payment for our transgressions…………….no variance possible. Muslims MUST accept the rules of Sharia, including the Jihad we’re experiencing today.

You may be making the common mistake of not understanding the patience coupled with resolve these people have. Their mission has been going on for 1600 years, and will continue until they are stopped, or until they succeed. There are, however, 12th-ers who believe they are the ‘chosen one’ to ignite the final Jihad. There’s evidence that Ahmadinejad is one………………..and that makes him one dangerous lil’ sh*t.

In acceptance of sharia law one is to engage in jihad/the struggle. Isn’t it open to interpretation what all jihad entails, though? Particularly the military aspect of it. I don’t believe the Quran specifically what all “warfare” entails. Some say it is to defend your religion. Others seem to think it is aggressive warfare against non-believers. At least that’s how I have understood it.

im_lovin_it said:
In acceptance of sharia law one is to engage in jihad/the struggle. Isn’t it open to interpretation what all jihad entails, though? Particularly the military aspect of it. I don’t believe the Quran specifically what all “warfare” entails. Some say it is to defend your religion. Others seem to think it is aggressive warfare against non-believers. At least that’s how I have understood it.

Indeed, there is the little jihad, the war with the infidels, and the great jihad, the war with oneself, the internal, individual, spiritual struggle toward self-improvement, moral cleansing and intellectual effort. The little jihad is not even one of the Five Pillars of Islam.

There have also been many statements about the abuses Islam subjects its women to. There are of course many stories of women being subject to abuse in Islamic countries. No one will argue that Islam is without faults. However, Umm Kulthum, “the voice”, a woman, is regarded as one the greatest artists of the 20th Century. She is a legend in Egypt and the Arabic world. I think I can use this as an example to attack the idea that Islam never treats women with respect.

im_lovin_it said:
I have a few questions here. The Ottoman Empire existed for hundreds of years under Sharia law. With them having clear majorities over the Jews and Christians under their domain, why were they not killed or converted? Also, I thought forced conversion was against sharia law. I’m sure that forced conversions happen, but I believe the Quran forbids it.

You have to understand the origin of Islam. The Crusades was violence waged against non-Christians with the stated mission of re-taking the Holy Lands. Like with many missions, things eventually got out of hand and the cure became worse than the disease. Mohammad was a warrior who fought against Crusaders who invaded his space. His hatred might have been justified at the time, but his reaction was the invention of Islam and it’s merciless demands on it’s followers for butchery and personal absolute obedience. The fruit of his labor is exemplified today in Istanbul, Turkey……………formerly known as Constantinople, the eastern seat of the Roman Empire and the first legally established Christian nation.

Like Nazism, Islam took some adaptation and “gelling” before solidifying into the belief system it became. Study some history and it’ll make sense to you. I can’t condense things into a few sentences I wish I could fit into the small space here.

OK, I’m having an urge to make a smart-ass comment about doing your own research. But maybe these few posts will energize your curiosity enough to find out how badly you’re being lied to by your own government.

Grammie–refute one thing I wrote before you call me names. You remind me of W; all hat and no cattle.

im_lovin_it said:
In acceptance of sharia law one is to engage in jihad/the struggle. Isn’t it open to interpretation what all jihad entails, though? Particularly the military aspect of it. I don’t believe the Quran specifically what all “warfare” entails. Some say it is to defend your religion. Others seem to think it is aggressive warfare against non-believers. At least that’s how I have understood i

Read the Quoran. It’s not as big as the Bible………….I have a paperback. You can find it online also. Read it for yourself. Ignorance in this matter may be lethal. Here are some key verses that are not up for “interpretation.”

Quote:
4.56″: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Quote:
4.89″: They desire that you should infidels as are infidels, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Quote:
4.144″: O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

Quote:
4.151″: These it is that are truly infidels, and We have prepared for the infidels a shameful punishment.

Quote:
4.161″: And their taking usury though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the infidels from among them a painful punishment.

Quote:
5.51″: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Quote:
9.5″: So when the sacred months have passed away, then kill those who join other gods with God wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Quote:
9.12″: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief — surely their oaths are nothing — so that they may desist.

Quote:
9.14″: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

Quote:
9.123″: O you who believe! wage war against those who are your neighbors and let them find you rigorous; and know that Allah is with those who fear him.

Davo–save the smart-ass comment and do a little research yourself. Mohammed lived in the 8th century. The 1st Crusade was in the 11th century. It was called for by the Pope to send the warring armies of various lords who had conflicting land claims out of Europe and save the common people from the pillage and rape that followed every battle.

Davo said:
You have to understand the origin of Islam. The Crusades was violence waged against non-Christians with the stated mission of re-taking the Holy Lands. Like with many missions, things eventually got out of hand and the cure became worse than the disease. Mohammad was a warrior who fought against Crusaders who invaded his space. His hatred might have been justified at the time, but his reaction was the invention of Islam and it’s merciless demands on it’s followers for butchery and personal absolute obedience. The fruit of his labor is exemplified today in Istanbul, Turkey……………formerly known as Constantinople, the eastern seat of the Roman Empire and the first legally established Christian nation.

Like Nazism, Islam took some adaptation and “gelling” before solidifying into the belief system it became. Study some history and it’ll make sense to you. I can’t condense things into a few sentences I wish I could fit into the small space here.

OK, I’m having an urge to make a smart-ass comment about doing your own research. But maybe these few posts will energize your curiosity enough to find out how badly you’re being lied to by your own government.

I have studied Middle Eastern History and that’s why I’m glad we got past the name calling and into some substantial back and forth. I know that Muhammad launched a crusade to retake Mecca. I’m aware of the meeting at Medina and Muhammad’s successor Abu Bakr’s rise to becoming the first khalif and Ali’s death at Najaf by the khariji. There is bloodshed in the history of Islam. You state his “hatred might have been justified at the time, but the reaction was the invention of Islam.” So then our disagreement lies in the understanding of “The Path?”

I also know that some of the greatest achievements in math and science came from Islamic roles. As I posted above, the Ottoman Turks existed for centuries without killing infidels. Islam teaches that Jesus Chirst was a prophet, and that Muhammad has presented the last and perfect word of God.

You’re right, I wish we had more space to discuss this.

Davo,

In response to your quotes from the Quran, could I not also find the similar quotes demanding bloodshed and violence in the Holy Bible. I hope this analogy doesn’t upset you, but I think it’s important. Christians have spent centuries working to understand the Holy Bible in a modern world. I believe Muslims are doing the same thing. Obviously, there are fundamentalists who stone women and cut their noses off. Yet, there is also room for interpretation in the teachings.

For instance, “prepared a shameful punishment.” How is that different from Christian understanding of Hell? Christianity, as most understand it, teaches that those who do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will burn in Hell. Does this not indicate the same teachings from Islam?

im_lovin_it said:
Davo,

In response to your quotes from the Quran, could I not also find the similar quotes demanding bloodshed and violence in the Holy Bible. I hope this analogy doesn’t upset you, but I think it’s important. Christians have spent centuries working to understand the Holy Bible in a modern world. I believe Muslims are doing the same thing. Obviously, there are fundamentalists who stone women and cut their noses off. Yet, there is also room for interpretation in the teachings.

For instance, “prepared a shameful punishment.” How is that different from Christian understanding of Hell? Christianity, as most understand it, teaches that those who do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will burn in Hell. Does this not indicate the same teachings from Islam?

Huge and conspicuous difference. The New Testament never instructs believers to violence or bloodshed. The big thing you’re missing is that Christians and Jews recognize the power of Almighty God, and our damnation apart from Him. Muslims are instructed by Mohammad to do allah’s “dirty work” for him………..the real hint that Islam is a false religion that worships an impotent deity.

The similarities between Islam and Christianity are as opposite as they are alike. They are like a photographic negative and a print………..total opposites of the similar outline. They are easy to equate by one not well-versed in either.

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

From 5:32

This is just one of the many passages in the Quran supporting the sanctity of human life. It appears to contradict other quotes that appear to support death and violence. This is very similar to our Bible.

“They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.” 2 Chronicles 15:12-13

The book of Deuteronomy has a passage advocating destroying entire towns. Of course, we as a modern Christian society don’t put such statements into practice. I think it’s possible Muslims are capable of making the same distinctions.

im_lovin_it said:
This is just one of the many passages in the Quran supporting the sanctity of human life. It appears to contradict other quotes that appear to support death and violence. This is very similar to our Bible.

This is the problem in trying to consolidate a large and complicated topic down to a few posts. For now, let’s back off a few steps and view the whole picture, with the previous details in mind. Islam is the ONLY “religion” committed to violent and bloody dominance……………….as evidenced by ACTIONS. Christianity got over it’s short-term violent chapter hundreds of years ago…………as evidenced by ACTIONS. There is no Islam without hatred, violence, and oppression. There is no Christianity without compassion and forgiveness.

Additionally, and finally, The New Testament supersedes the Old Testament. Christ is the difference. Otherwise, He sure wasted a lot of agony.

Davo said:
The New Testament never instructs believers to violence or bloodshed. The big thing you’re missing is that Christians and Jews recognize the power of Almighty God, and our damnation apart from Him. Muslims are instructed by Mohammad to do allah’s “dirty work” for him………..the real hint that Islam is a false religion that worships an impotent deity.

That’s true, but did Christianity not spend centuries attempting to recognize differences between the Old Testament and the New Testament? Consider the Salem Witch Trials. A fundamentalist and superstitious understanding of Christianity was used to justify killing people. We have since seen the error in such practices. Again, I don’t want to seem as though I’m in any way attacking Christianity. My brother is a pastor. I’m just trying to find the parallels between the history and teachings of Christianity and Islam. Are Muslims not capable of also evolving in their faith?

Davo said:
This is the problem in trying to consolidate a large and complicated topic down to a few posts. For now, let’s back off a few steps and view the whole picture, with the previous details in mind. Islam is the ONLY “religion” committed to violent and bloody dominance……………….as evidenced by ACTIONS. Christianity got over it’s short-term violent chapter hundreds of years ago…………as evidenced by ACTIONS. There is no Islam without hatred, violence, and oppression. There is no Christianity without compassion and forgiveness.

Additionally, and finally, The New Testament supersedes the Old Testament. Christ is the difference. Otherwise, He sure wasted a lot of agony.

I see what you’re saying, but I believe we can find continuing examples of perversions of the Christian faith in our world today. Islam suffers the same problem and that is why the actions of a few support the idea that it is a religion who’s sole purpose for existence is to exterminate and oppress others. Let’s consider the Muslim community in Michigan. Why do they not rise up and attack their Christian neighbors? Obviously they would be destroyed. However, does the Quran advocate waiting until you are assured of success before rising up and attacking?

I’m afraid I must now move on with my life, but in closing I just want to say thank you for having a dialogue with me. I’m afraid I still don’t support your belief that America must essentially declare war on and destroy Islam in order to be safe. I do not believe that is a solution that will be successful or one that Jesus Christ would advocate. I believe we, the Western world, are in danger because of a horrendous foreign policy in the Arab world since World War I and the Sykes-Picot Treaty. I love this country, but I’m also aware of the mistakes it has made. I believe that Muslim fundamentalists are able to carry on their war against us by continuing to demonize us as well as teach a fundamentalist, radicalized, and distorted version of Islam. I don’t think that 1.5 billion people want to see the death of all who do not follow the teachings of Allah. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Abrahamic faiths, no? Surely there must be some common ground here.

I will agree there are many who have no idea what they are talking about. Perhaps you still think I’m one of them. There are millions of people who think differently from you and I, however. Being dismissive and scornful to them is not going to help them understand or further your cause.

Obviously the many nations of the Middle East are not entirely innocent, either. There is much to reconcile between the America, Israel, the West and the Muslim world. As the greatest country the world has ever seen, however, I believe the onus is on us as a nation to be the one to set an example. We will show the compassion of America to everyone, even as they may scorn and hate us. We will obviously defend ourselves, yet we must also be the “shining city on the hill” that President Reagan saw in this nation.

Grammie said:
She spoke of the position that women have in Muslim society. They are not considered to be much more than chattel in many such societies.

That was not the subject of the discussion and neither have I denied it.

Grammie said:
This attitude is codified in Sharia law. Sharia Law has some truly horrifying codes. Rape can only be proved by multiple male witnesses. Without that there is no rape and the woman is subject to brutal punishments including death.

Here’s the mistake I see too often among conservatives.
There is not just one Sharia law that is the same for all Muslims who follow it. For the sale of honesty, our own understanding, and relations with our Muslim brothers and sisters, we have to discipline our language and demonstrate that we know the truth about this. Language that lumps all Muslims together under a single Sharia law does not reflect reality.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/islsharia.htm
“There are four main schools of Sharia law:

Hanbali: This is the most conservative school of Shari’a. It is used in Saudi Arabia and some states in Northern Nigeria.
Hanifi: This is the most liberal school, and is relatively open to modern ideas.
Maliki: This is based on the practices of the people of Medina during Muhammad’s lifetime.
Shafi’i: This is a conservative school that emphasizes on the opinions of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad.
What applies within one school of Sharia law does not necessarily apply in the other schools”

Grammie said:
In the decade before WWII many civilized people in the democracies had a similar attitude towards Germany. Many famous people overlooked the disturbing evidence and were blinded by their own open mindedness to making no judgments of the details of how others ordered their societies.

I understand the point , but lets be aware of the differences. Islam , is not a single nation and it’s a huge mistake to judge it , or treat it that way. I can’t think of anyone who believes there are not Muslims who hate us and would eagerly attack us. The challenge is, how do we vigorously defend ourselves against the terrorism of radical Islam without alienating and sabotaging peace efforts with Islamic peoples as a group. Two wars in Muslim nations doesn’t seem to have helped have they?

Grammie said:
You, of course, may view it differently and want to find common ground in the humanity that we all share. Continue to look for and find every such incident. But please do not simultaneously close your eyes to the brutal realities that are far too abundant.

I think it is a long term security, and a moral imperative that we do so. Let’s be clear, liberals suggesting that we not lump all Muslims into one group, liberals that recognize THE REALITY, that not all Sharia law is the same, DO NOT have their eyes closed to terrorism and the danger of radical Islam. I’d like to see that often repeated conservative meme disappear. Every time someone tries to correct sweeping generalities that ought to change , they are accused of being blind, or stupid, or preferring Islam over America and Christianity. It’s nonsense and doesn’t do anything but promote ignorance.

I think there may be a lack of clarity about the number , or % of Muslims that we might consider radical. That’s something to consider.

im_lovin_it said:
The Ottoman Empire existed for hundreds of years under Sharia law. With them having clear majorities over the Jews and Christians under their domain, why were they not killed or converted?

Don’t know many Armenians, do you?

Olby Sucks said:
Pointing out the fact that “paul” is a hypocrite is not stalking. Interesting how you always come to his “defense.”

I’m sure Paul doesn’t need me to defend him. I was just sick of your stalking.

CosmosDan said:
Honest, nuance isn’t meant as some phony tool to “win” an argument. I prefer to look at things accurately and often find the generalizations used are missing some important details. That’s where nuance comes in for me.

I don’t think I engaged in false moral equivalency. Maybe you can explain how what I did is false exactly. I also did nothing to denigrate America.
IMO if I made any comparisons it was to compare a sexual assault in Egypt to a sexual assault in the US. Wouldn’t there be a true equivalence rather than a false one if I’m talking about about acts of sexual assault against women? How is it false? It’s not denigrating America to simply recognize that we have sexual assaults here. That’s a fact.

I didn’t imply any such thing. You are reading something into my response that isn’t there. You;re insulting my thinking with things you imagined I said. That’s a habit I see a lot in these threads. That’s faulty reasoning on your part.

The subject of discussion was one specific act of violence against a woman. Is the assumed religion of the men a factor in that violent act? We don’t know. You seemed to assume it was with your comment about Muslim men. I think that’s a bogus standard to judge by.
If we’re going to judge a group by the actions of a few then apply that same standard {which I think is unfair on it’s face} to all groups , including Americans. That’s fair right. Using the same standard?

The question and the discussion was not about how Islam and Muslim men treat their women in general. If you wanted to make some point about that then be clear that you’re changing the subject.

Just out of curiosity, I looked up rapes per capita. Would it surprise you to know that the US is in the top 10 along with Canada and several other non Muslim countries.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
Since Egypt wasn’t on that list I kept looking Here’s some more recent stats for 08 and 09.
US, considerably higher than Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Just maybe there’s a difference between a cultural oppression of women’s rights and equality, and sexual assaults. What do you think?

Well, Dan, like I said, I’ve been around a long time on the internet commenting on politics, too long honestly, and I’ve seen that tactic of bringing in the moral equivelancy argument way too many times and it just doesn’t work for me. Sorry, but you’re not changing my mind any.
The Muslim religious culture treats woman like garbage. It’s ingrained. Only the heretic Muslims treat woman somewhat decently. Women are possessions and sex slaves and that is all they are in Islam. For instance in our current times, this is why the actress from the Harry Potter movies got beaten up by her brother and father; why the “moderate” Muslim TV host from New York beheaded his wife; why the father in Arizona crushed his daughter with his car. I could literally spend the rest of my life typing examples of devout Muslims killing their own mothers, wives and daughters because they “dishonored” them by dating out of their religion, dressed immodestly, asked for a divorce.
As I said before, it is my belief based on the hundreds of similar acts of Muslim violence against women that I’ve read, that Lara Logan was gang raped because she dressed immodestly. These gang rapes are happening in Britain right now with the perpetrators saying that the 11 year old white girls they rape deserve it for dressing “provocatively”.
Do gang rapes happen here? Of course they do. But they aren’t ingrained into the culture or religious fabric. They are committed by low-life scumbags who just want to bust a nut. They happen mostly in the inner cities were America is suffering a societal breakdown, which many people believe is caused by the enabling policies of the leftists, which has caused the degeneration of the nuclear family.
And as for any stats which you posted, that’s another internet game I’ve seen many a time. All one has to do is Google a few things and you can always find something which backs up you POV, regardless of what the subject is. Let me ask you a question…do you really think people in the Islamic world report rapes when the punishment for a woman being raped is being buried up to your neck and having your head smashed to pieces with rocks?

CosmosDan said:
It is indeed, and the subject was specifically RADICAL Islam which fairly separates all Muslims from the extremists.

Where, precisely, do you draw that line, Dan? Just put it wherever you’d like it to be. I’d just like to know where it is when you’re done.

im_lovin_it said:
Also Davo, what about the millions of Muslims living here in the United States? We even have on in Congress. What should we do to them?

That’s a pretty twisted question. What would posses you to think that it’s worthy of an answer? Do you have some legal mechanism in mind to do something to them?

CosmosDan said:
In a group of 1.5 billion people of a certain religion , it’s almost certain that not all see things the same and Sharia is not interpreted the same for all Muslims , just as all Christians don’t get the same message from the Bible.

If you’d like to expound on the various and diverse ways Sharia is currently implemented, I’d love to hear it. If not, I could give you the rundown.

Davo said:
. Muslims MUST accept the rules of Sharia, including the Jihad we’re experiencing today.

But neither Sharia law, not Jihad are the same thing to every Muslim or Muslim sect. To talk as if they are , such as
“Muslims believe that allah created the world for them exclusively. The day of “Jihad” is the day they think allah means for them to arise and take what ‘rightfully’ belongs to them. The “radical” Muslims believe that day is NOW. The “non-radical” Muslims believe that day has not YET arrived. That’s the only difference”

Is not a reflection of reality.

Davo said:
Read the Quoran. It’s not as big as the Bible………….I have a paperback. You can find it online also. Read it for yourself. Ignorance in this matter may be lethal. Here are some key verses that are not up for “interpretation.”

Except they are up for interpretation and Muslim scholars do not agree. It’s already been pointed out to you that history shows several examples of Muslims living in perfect harmony with other religions when they were the dominant ones. As you said, actions, that contradict your statements.

Davo said:
Christianity got over it’s short-term violent chapter hundreds of years ago

Not judging by the voluntary wars entered into by this predominantly Christian nation led by Christian presidents.

We’re in a precarious situation in which we need to defend ourselves but also work to encourage peace among Muslim nations built on Mutual respect for human and sovereign rights.

Pablo said:

CosmosDan said:
In a group of 1.5 billion people of a certain religion , it’s almost certain that not all see things the same and Sharia is not interpreted the same for all Muslims , just as all Christians don’t get the same message from the Bible.

If you’d like to expound on the various and diverse ways Sharia is currently implemented, I’d love to hear it. If not, I could give you the rundown.

I would sure like to know what they all or even the bulk of the various types have in common that might be shocking to a Western woman if forced to live under them.

Exactly how liberal is the liberal variation not only in theory but in custom, law and most importantly the actual implementation of the laws. How do the variations from the strictest (such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan) to the moderate to the most liberal (Turkey).

Are there any tenets that they all share such as is common to all Christian sects.

Thanks in advance. I’ve tried to google for more info but it’s been tough sledding and I sure would appreciate a helping hand from someone who is more familiar with the subject.

OxyCon said:
Well, Dan, like I said, I’ve been around a long time on the internet commenting on politics, too long honestly, and I’ve seen that tactic of bringing in the moral equivelancy argument way too many times and it just doesn’t work for me

Except you didn’t explain how I presented a false moral equivelancy.

I WAS NOT, comparing American culture to Islamic culture so you’re barking up the wrong tree.

But just as food for thought.

How many violent acts against women do you think we could list for America. I noticed you rejected the stats I mentioned. It’s easy maintain your views if you reject anything that might contradict them.

Grammie said:
I would sure like to know what they all or even the bulk of the various types have in common that might be shocking to a Western woman if forced to live under them.

Exactly how liberal is the liberal variation not only in theory but in custom, law and most importantly the actual implementation of the laws. How do the variations from the strictest (such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan) to the moderate to the most liberal (Turkey).

Are there any tenets that they all share such as is common to all Christian sects.

Thanks in advance. I’ve tried to google for more info but it’s been tough sledding and I sure would appreciate a helping hand from someone who is more familiar with the subject.

I’m sure that information is out there. Looking for the truth about complex issues requires some effort.

I assume they share a belief that Mohammed is God’s prophet as well as other things.
What I’ve read, without an extensive study, is that Jihad is for the more liberal , about the inner battle to become a better servant of God, rather than an earthly battle

After the Russians were driven out of Afghanistan there were more liberal Muslims who struggled for control against the Taliban. They wanted to educate women and progress. That was our chance to establish a more democratic government in the ME but nobody wanted to fund it so that opportunity was lost.

i’d like to see Malkin (and Hannity, for that matter) walk through certain areas of this country without their security. . .say, certain neighborhoods in New York City, LA, Chicago. . .even here in some of the rural areas of northeast Texas.

and then, if such an event happened to them, i’d like to see them bllame THAT on ‘extreme Islam’.

they understand neither biology, psychology or society. they just blame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8&feature=related

“Squeal like a pig!”

pro MOslem = pro moral guidance from a violence/murder commanding enslaver, slave owner, slave trader, slave raper, tortureer and liar.

pro MOslem = anti freedom of speech
pro MOslem = anti freedom of religion

pro MOslem = pro violence against “infidels”
pro MOslem = pro rape of “infidel” women

pro MOslem = gross subjugation of women and nonMoslems
pro MOslem = pro slavery
pro MOslem = pro child molestation

pro MOslem = enemy of truth
pro MOslem = enemy of human race
pro MOslem = enemy of God