Round Two: Piers Morgan Invites Back Jonah Goldberg, Promising A Fair Fight
After getting “off on the wrong foot,” Piers Morgan invited back The National Review‘s Jonah Goldberg — this time promising to talk about his book, A Tyranny of Clichés: How Liberals Cheat in the War of Ideas.
Right off the bat, Goldberg told Morgan he’s “carrying more water for Obama than Gunga Din.” The premise of the book, he said, is that liberals and conservatives are ideological, but liberals don’t admit it. Goldberg noted that the way Morgan has interviewed others, like Dan Rather, has been “far less prosecutorial.” On that topic of bias, Morgan defended himself, saying he’s interviewed many Republicans — including Rick Santorum and Ron Paul — and none have said he has a liberal bias. And anyway, he reminded Goldberg, he can’t vote.
The point he makes in the book, Goldberg said, is that both sides are ideological and both do use clichés, but conservatives talk about their ideology openly, so you know where they’re coming from. Liberals, he said, “don’t admit. They don’t even admit it to themselves.”
They moved on to President Obama’s Osama bin Laden ad, and Goldberg defended himself, saying he and Morgan agreed on Obama’s right to gloat about the successful raid. Goldberg underlined that point, and clarified his point of contention: Morgan “didn’t even mention the Mitt Romney part in the ad” and was trying to “bully” Goldberg by saying he thought Obama shouldn’t campaign on bin Laden, which isn’t true.
Morgan replied, “You must be the least bully-able person ever created.” Goldberg then gave a succinct, blunt rundown of the problems with Morgan’s last interview with him: “You kept interrupting me, you wouldn’t let me answer questions, you kept asking me these sort of fake questions asked on false premises, and then you wouldn’t let me answer them or clear the air.”
Morgan moved on to the issue of gay marriage — one which he said the two probably share similar views on. But again, the two went back to their own disagreements over their last meeting. “I never once called you a screaming liberal,” Goldberg said in response to a hypothetical from Morgan:
All I’ve said is that you proved the point that I gave you at the beginning of that interview, which is that you were very one-sided. You kept saying, I don’t believe in ideology, I’m not partisan, then you kept carrying water for the Obama perspective in a way that struck a lot of people as sort of one-sided and unfair — and you weren’t listening to the actual answers I was giving. That’s all. I never called you a screaming liberal, never called you a fascist, never done any of those things.
Then, Goldberg explained his position on gay marriage, which, he said, is a lot like Obama’s — minus the lying. In the end, he said, he’d be fine with the issue left up to the states: If they want to pass it, that’s fine, if they don’t want to, that’s fine. Morgan asserted that this position shows that Goldberg doesn’t have an ideology either. Goldberg said that’s not true, that he believes in “the values and importance of federalism.” Ideology isn’t some binding dogma, he said.
The two ended up agreeing to disagree on several topics, and Morgan extending Goldberg an open invitation.
Take a look, via CNN:
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