Seems pretty fair and balanced of Fox to let this far left wing nut spew his bile. 

If you watch the clip, you’ll see why Bershad hasn’t included the definition that Beckel provided. If an anarchist is truly “: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power”, then everyone who every opposes the majority is an anarchist. This is obviously drivel and it was a very smart decision by the author of this article to not include this in the written portion, as that would leave him with no attack to make.

Your post highlights a serious problem that the Republican Party and the right face now, and which could well doom them going forward.

Objectively, Beckel is in no way “far left” or “a nut.” He’s a center-left liberal-lite, and he’s not spewing anything: he’s calmly and cogently putting forth a point of view with which you disagree.

America is tired of the right’s fervid hyperbole, the nastiness, the sanctimoniousness, and most of all the lack of any sense of balance or shared experience. You’ve turned off all but like-minded zealots, and will pay the price going forward in the form of increasing irrelevance.

2010 was the high-water mark of rightwing ferment. It’s downhill from here.

What do you think a call to return to the days of the founding fathers is supposed to mean? The words revolutionary/anarchist/martyr have been used interchangeably depending on one’s agenda for ages. The spin continued today by Beckel. The Tea Party is peaceful though; Webster says, “political disorder and violence.” The Tea Party may want to bring about a New Politcal Order but they have yet to call for violence of any sort.

I rarely ( actually never ) agree with Beckle, but he is one of only maybe 5 people, in the entire world, I would really like to go out drinking one night with. 

He is the only cool and level headed ( stomachable ) lib I’ve ever seen.

Not to mention he knows where ALL the bodies, both parties, are buried, yet keeps it to himself……..so far.

Even the Left realizes that playing the race card makes them look bitter and twisted.  And they got no traction by calling tea partiers violent — there was never a single violent incident at a tea party.   So now they come up with “anarchist”?  You can only laugh at this. 

My advice to the American Left:  give up on name-calling, and let’s have a real national discussion on the benefits of spending a trillion dollars of borrowed money each year.   Or is the Left capable of policy discussions? 

THANK YOU TEA PARTY!

Hey Dems,
That’s TWO official bills now that have been passed by the HoR.

Where’s your bill, so we can EXPOSE the phony cuts that Reid is proposing? 
(Does anyone remember the health care numbers??? That power-grab by the Regime will now cost us Trillions more than they LIED about, unless the GOP reverses it!)

Keep up the pressure TEA PARTY!
Crush the Communist-Democrats, and their McCain-like RINO Lapdogs!

All they have to discuss is SMEAR & FEAR!
…and just wait until the nasty race stuff they’ve routinely used in the past hits the airwaves!

The tea baggeds ARE NOT anarchists.

The correct definition is: inbreed, xenophobic, flag-waving racist a-holes.

The tea baggeds ARE NOT anarchists.

The correct definition is: inbreed, xenophobic, flag-waving racist a-holes.

I’m in agreement mode today! That was a very lame daffy-nition, and a serious dumbing down of the term “anarchist.”

I’m in agreement mode today! That was a very lame daffy-nition, and a serious dumbing down of the term “anarchist.”

I wouldn’t need a dictionary to explain why Liberals are a$$holes.

*RACE CARD* everyone drink!!! LOL.

yes one liberal against an echo chamber of conservatives, pretty fair and balanced i guess.

You say “America is tired of the right’s fervid hyperbole, the nastiness, the sanctimoniousness, and most of all the lack of any sense of balance or shared experience” yet you don’t find it ironic he’s calling people names like “anarchist”?

sheesh, you people are soooooo one dimensional it’s pathetic.

I attended my first Tea Party in Denver, the spring of 2009.  The Party was a cross section of like minded Americans who desired America return to a meaningful, Constitutional Republic.

Furthermore, even though many of us were not so wealthy that we were above the $200,000 threshold, we did not feel compelled to punish those successful people who were.  There was/is a fundamental fairness instilled in a Tea Party member that probably came all the way from our childhood.  Playing behind the school at recess, anyone of us knew what was fair and what wasn’t.

My question to the Socialist-Democrats is:  Did you ever go through that Freudian “fairness” stage?  Fairness is an innate ability that was/is nurtured in child hood.  What the heck happened to you Socialists?  LOL

Purveyor

Just a regular freakin’ scholar now ain’t ya son?

honestly it’s interesting to see the once united front of conservatism falter. The democrats have dealt with a large tent for a long time now, they’ve had environmentalists, to labor unions, to blue dog democrats, to hawk democrats, to gay activists, to minority activists all semi-united and many times disagreeing with each other on issues. The republicans have two groups, social conservatives and fiscal conservatives and for a long time the latter have been almost completely shoved out of the equation. Now they have infighting and the Reagan principle of never badmouthing a fellow republican has completely gone out the window.

They think fairness means giving slackers money to raise their standard of living and hope they’re not too lazy to go to the polls and vote DEM.

Wait, they’ll be marching Tawana and his rent-a-mob SEIU buds on the Capitol steps – swearing they heard the “N”-word hurled at them!

They’ve been playing that phony, despicable Race-Card for 60 years!
DON’T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT AGAIN!

Turn it around - they’re the White-Hating/Self-Hating Racists for using that SMEAR as a political tool – and promoted, of course, by THEIR mainstream Media.

Compromise my as–!
Bring a well-reasoned message to the people, and let them decide if they want these indoctrinated power-obsessed anachronisms running the country, or cutting-edge, honest, 21st Century Tea-Partyer’s?

One shouldn’t confuse name-calling with defining your opponent. “Obozo” is name-calling; “traditional Democrat” is a definition.

For Tea Party adherents, “anarchist” has been applied as a definition and is, IMHO, just plain wrong. I think the people who use that term have an ahistorical view of anarchists as badly dressed bomb-throwers from the 1890s.

I’d say the word we’re looking for is “wreckers.” With their “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” mindset, resentment of change, and fear that any change will disadvantage them, TPAs are determined to bring the engine of their (imagined) destruction to a halt. Throw a wrench, let a bull loose in the china shop, jump into the gears and force them to stop . . . There is even historical precedence: from the Luddites to the Wobblies to the mythical anti-Soviet technocrats that Stalin murdered in their tens of thousands.

This romantic view of where they sit vis-à-vis the rest of America is what motivates TPAs. Again, IMO.

The balanced budget catfight is just one more example. It ain’t gonna happen, it doesn’t make practical sense, but it sure would be a finger in the eye of those smarty-pants liberals who think they know more than the Tea Party does. Might make ‘em stop and think.

Needless to say, this isn’t helpful to the nation as a whole, and since the Tea Party brand is waning big-time, might not even matter in politics past this week.

We’ll see.

ACORN and the SEIU (tax-exempts) will DRIVE them to the polls, and PAY THEM!

Democrats have no regard for rule-of-law, only the acquisition – by any means – of power.

I disagree with Beckel’s use of the term, but it wasn’t fervid, nasty, sanctimonious, etc., etc., etc.

I think this demonstrates the problem I was referring to: when resentment is your base case, everything is an affront. Such a point of view is tiring, is unrealistic, is unsophisticated, and people are fed up with it.

Go on being pissed off at everything. It’s not going to help you get your way.

Rusty, how are things in Arlen Texas? Your Post is really more profound than you might realize? There are a number of ancillary issues such as briberyand corruption. I could easily make a case that someone receiving public assistance can’t vote because their vote has been corrupted? There is much to chew on. Well done!

The sound of crinkling tinfoil has gotten very loud around here.

The effects of LSD-25 wears off after 12 hours depending on the dose…

“honest tea baggeds”

Mark Williams got thrown out by speaking his racist mind. For delivering a message you tea baggeds don’t dare to say.Grow a pair, Norbie.

Yup. Not wanting to go another few trillion in debt is just unsophisticated. Smart people got us into this mess. Maybe us unsophisticated, non-Harvard  folks can fix it. 

According to Beckel, he no longer drinks because it was a problem for him.

Thank you sir. How are things in Arlen? *Sips beer* Yup.

And the slurping sound you make as you service Dear Leader is any better?

Kinda opposite of what we see nightly on MSNBC and CNN.

LOL

This from a lib who participates in and is supportive of the sodomitic form of teabagging!

Say aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, GB!

I guess Beckel should be proud that the Tea Party anarchists appeared back in their day to create our country and should be proud they reappear as so called anarchists in his mind, to possibly save our country.

There is no “Tea Party” no matter how much money the Koch brothers throw at them. Just a bunch of conservative Republicans (self identified 80%), who voted 92% Republican in the last election, and refuse to believe it when their conservative policies repeatedly fail.

218 for and 22 against?

LOL

And the final Dem vote in the House for Obamacare?

219 for and 34 against!

Better to be a teabagger than a liberal teabaggee. Conservative Power to the People! Stick it to the Man!

There is no connection between the patriots of the Revolutionary War and the clowns of the contemporary Tea Party other than a predilection for unusual headgear.

Yeah, but what a 12 hours . . .

Hmmm I bet the UK called those in their day clowns too.. amazing how that works…

Fairness defined as the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle classes to the uberrich in the history of mankind — like we’ve experienced over the last 10 years? That kind of fairness?

Lose clowns handed you guys your asses in Nov. 2010.

ha-ha-ha

Or you could say government partnering with the people to ensure dignity and self-respect are the minimum standard for a wealthy and caring nation.

I bet you cried when ya saw that the movie “Captain America” was #1 at the box office last week.

Beck is wonderful if he would onld become a rep.

Nutbag. ACORN is defunct. SEIU is the only protection some people have from predatory employment practices. And your statement about the rule of law is pure fantasy.

Hmmm. Nutbaggery, playground insults. Stay classy. Stay focussed.

I attended one Tea Party meeting in Lodi, CA last year. The people there were elderly and concerned about their financial circumstances  (like liberals and pensionloving union types) . I was impressed when the person in charge of the meeting reminded everyone right off that we weren’t there to discuss social issues, only economic problems. If anyone could call this group of senior citizens a threat they must be afraid of their teddy bears too.

LOL  And ACORN is gone for a very good reason- among them is that they were among housing advocates who recommended  that Fannie Mae create a goal of giving 30% of its loans to low-income people who could not afford a house and crap like that, and the advocation that everyone deserved a home created the carnage the was the housing debacle.

As Maxine Waters asked “Why do people need a down payment and when do thee banks have to do credit checks and income checks? That only holds the loans up.”

 Second amendment solutions aren’t a call to violence?

It’s a bit more complicated than “going another few trillion in debt.” Which you almost certainly realize. And yet you pretend that dealing with complex (i.e., sophisticated) problems in a simple-minded (unsophisticated) way is a good idea.

I’m betting you know better.

Oh- more bad news for Barry:

“Mexico’s unemployment rate is now 4.9 percent, compared with 9.2 percent joblessness in the United States. ”

An estimated 300,000 undocumented immigrants have left California since 2008, though the remaining 2.6 million still make up 7 percent of the population and 9 percent of the labor force, according to the Public Policy Institute of California.
Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/28/3799513/improving-mexican-economy-draws.html#ixzz1TXv5LPXa

“

teabaggers probably are what you called them – don’t know.

Tea Party people are people who think that big government leads to big bills that little people can’t afford.
Are they right or wrong?  

Tea Party people think the government should act responsibly with our money.  I assume you have no dog in this fight so…..

Mexicans are great, long live Mexico!

Back in the day, the original tea party members were scholars, the modern tea party is people fighting for corporate control of the government, totally different. 

Serious question(s): Do you equate success with wealth? If so, then wealth would be the result of that which makes one successful? Or, do you begrudge the wealthy who are successful, by unsavory means? Ergo, “fairness” dictates that I will not punish by excessive and unfair taxes those who are more successful than I, as well as law abiding and ethical.
If, you are angry with those who achieve success through less than ethical means, such as unfair employment practices. Then, other avenues of justice/fairness must be taken as raising taxes on the deceitful and nefarious is NOT enough, nor fair.
(Definitions: Free enterprise, diligence, hard work, insight, foresight, etc. are what makes for success.

Last time was 1978. A real “Electric Kool Aid Acid Test.” Late September, 50 people partying in and around an old barn in Wisconsin, with a bon fire blazing. “The Road of excess leads to the palce of wisdom.” William Blake

And now people see what they got with their vote. And they don’t like it a bit.

THANK YOU! How the media has given the impression of the Tea Party being comprised of evil Racists, borders on deliberate disinformation. (treachery) A fiscal and economically stable America is a prosperous and generous America. “Teach a man to fish and he will fish for a lifetime.”

Of course, because anyone who disagrees with you is obviously disloyal to America. Don’t you have some gays to “cure”, Michelle? 

No, America is tired of that crap on both sides. Period. The left and right are selectively tired of it from eachother expectedly. Which is more crap Americans are tired of.

No, America is tired of that crap on both sides. Period. The left and right are selectively tired of it from eachother expectedly. Which is more crap Americans are tired of.

1992. Redwood Park above Berkeley. Six guys on mountain bikes (ended up with five guys and only two bikes). Most significant insight: “Redwoods are biiig, man.”

1992. Redwood Park above Berkeley. Six guys on mountain bikes (ended up with five guys and only two bikes). Most significant insight: “Redwoods are biiig, man.”

Wasn’t Beckel lamenting the other day on the show that he had misplaced a key of coke.. 

it sure is, and at this moment it is in far worse shape

Thx patsy!

I sat here chuckling as I understood, completely! In fact, I am still chuckling… Ok, we’d better change the subject or my cheeks will hurt in the morning…LOL

shame, people just go by what they Hear in Paid media..never do they search out the truth.. search and study..the truth will set you free…

I’d say becoming wealthy is a sign of success. Being born wealthy, not so much.

I have no interest in punishing the wealthy and I don’t see bearing a fairer share of the tax burden to be punishment — or an impediment to success.

Just talking about America (not wealth earned globally), it’s American social investment that makes earning wealth possible: public schools, decent roads (deteriorating at present, sadly), the rule of law, social ethos that doing well is desirable, etc., etc. This needs to be paid for and reasonableness tells me that those who benefit the most should pay more than those who benefit less and particularly those who benefit hardly at all.

Unethical/illegal business practices should be punished regardless of their affect on wealth, if for no other reason than, taken collectively, society bears an unfair cost for such practices.

Unfair governance, arrived at via collusion, legislative laziness, the greater sophistication of corporations vis-à-vis everyone else — all those things that deform government/social policy in favor of the rich and to the disadvantage of the rest of society, I resent intensely and will vote for people who convince me they’ll do something about it.

Finally, we need a solid and confident middle class much more than we need the untrammeled rich. The middle class keeps the whole thing together, and if the table is tipped against them, the whole thing can slide into the ditch.

Yeah, they apparently don’t know the drug cartels pretty much control things.

Now we have something to chew on, so to speak. Are Taxes punitive or a social responsibility? Id say the latter, however, the successful resent paying into a corrupt system. In fact, we all do.
Listen, I am tired, but, I may be able to get a response together tonight. If not, by tomorrow. Now we have a substantive dialogue and I am intrigued. In the mean time, Google “neutral principle” as that is my Philosophy and I mention it frequently. I think you will like it too. Requires law be based on reason and not moral caprice. Vaya con Dios, Amigo

They don’t teach those things in our schools anymore.. but they do teach this, you should take a look it is quite enlightening. Explains alot about the modern liberal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mr9i7QgDw&playnext=1&list=PL002E160B08E25DE9

Doesn’t say much for obamas “cartel” does it?

Beckel is a recovering alcoholic/drug addict (cocaine being his drug of choice) and is well known in Washington for trying to help others get sober.

Really. Yet your Dead Beat Dad Tea Party Representative was on both Matthews and O’Donnell this week.

To be sure there is that element in the Tea Party. I’m afraid these people have been used by the more organized Tea Partiers to advance an extremist rightist agenda, however.

Thank you. I am stunned. I need to think about this before I respond. Seriously!

Are you still riding horses wearing short pants? Not the horses wearing the short pants. You. That’s pretty gross.

This is bogus.  Nobody “transferred” wealth to Bill Gates or Steve Jobs.  They created the wealth. 

In contrast, what Obama and the Democrats want to do is just that — transfer wealth from one party to another.

How ironic that the Democrats attack the very concept of redistribution that they so ardently embrace.

This is bogus.  Nobody “transferred” wealth to Bill Gates or Steve Jobs.  They created the wealth. 

In contrast, what Obama and the Democrats want to do is just that — transfer wealth from one party to another.

How ironic that the Democrats attack the very concept of redistribution that they so ardently embrace.

the baggers keep calling for a return to the days of the founding fathers.

I’m all for that.

Mr President, its time for you to call out the militia to put down resistance from nutcases who don’t wanna pay their taxes and to arrest their leaders.

just like George Washington did.

arrest the teabaggers and other anti-government subversives, just like John Adams did

do it like the founding fathers did, Mr President, for the good of the country.

the baggers keep calling for a return to the days of the founding fathers.

I’m all for that.

Mr President, its time for you to call out the militia to put down resistance from nutcases who don’t wanna pay their taxes and to arrest their leaders.

just like George Washington did.

arrest the teabaggers and other anti-government subversives, just like John Adams did

do it like the founding fathers did, Mr President, for the good of the country.

the baggers keep calling for a return to the days of the founding fathers.

I’m all for that.

Mr President, its time for you to call out the militia to put down resistance from nutcases who don’t wanna pay their taxes and to arrest their leaders.

just like George Washington did.

arrest the teabaggers and other anti-government subversives, just like John Adams did

do it like the founding fathers did, Mr President, for the good of the country.

Yeah, State and Federal employment laws mean nothing, totally agree.

Yeah, State and Federal employment laws mean nothing, totally agree.

We only wave flags because we know that you guys hate them…

Do you think that if all the un-documented go back to Mexico that Obama will still send them absentee ballots?  Just wondering..

Do you think that if all the un-documented go back to Mexico that Obama will still send them absentee ballots?  Just wondering..

So you launch a playground insult and then call John out for doing the same?  Hypocrite much?

Must’ve hit a nerve. ;)

Wordsmith..  almost poetic, but in the end you have said nothing that is even remotely noteworthy..

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

a soon as you and philby started licking each other….can you keep it down?

Bob Beckel is the reason nobody watches The Five. FOX News needs to come up with something else as that format is just not working when compared to the numbers Beck brought in.

Short and sweet: the people are learning to hate rightwing extremism all over again.

Bob is wrong. Who is the ‘authority’? 

Of the people, for the people, by the people…WE are the people, Bob. WE are the ultimate authority.

I like Bob Beckel, I’m a tea partier, and he’s dead wrong on this.  Got it exactly bass-ackwards.  Our government, who is supposed to work FOR us, is working against us.  Our Constitution and style of government is meant to be one where our representatives go to DC and work FOR us.

Since they are not, we are making our voices heard.  It’s as American as it gets.  He just doesn’t like what we’re saying….Ad hominem attacks are the last bastion of people whose arguments have no substance.

We are absolutely in love with our style of government.  We’d just like to see it work as it was intended, instead of being usurped by the power broker politicians who want to serve their own agenda, not our’s.

Gates and Jobs are hardly representative, and yes a deformed tax code gamed in favor of the rich benefited them as well. You might even want to listen to Gates and Jobs regarding their opinion of CEO salaries, tilted tables, and tax laws written by and for the wealthiest beneficiaries. Hint: they’re not impressed.

So everybody’s tired. What’s the next step?

And just what do you think caused this transfer of wealth…  What policies can you point to that caused this to happen…  Was it possible caused by 536 fools that were sent to Washington forgot about whom they were sent to serve…  That in pursuit of their own self-gratification they just did not keep up with their own laws, their fair trade agreements, the corporate attorneys who turned all to their advantage?  Do you really believe that Reid, Pelosi, Kerry and the like were not pliable as the lobbyist came calling…  Was it not so long ago that the elitist in both DC and Washington decided that losing our manufacturing would be offset by exporting our superior financial and banking capabilities?  You are going to hang this around the neck of Tea Party types whose major flaw seems to be that they require their representation to be bound by the principles they promised as they ask for the job? The Tea Party is not trying to protect the wealthy, they are fighting for fairness…  as long as this government sees fit to spend tax dollars studying the size of Gay men’s penises the Tea Party will say you obviously don’t really need any new taxes..  When we see Pelosi’s district flooded with Federal dollars we say, you don’t need new taxes…  When they see the president mobilize is campaign of “they are working against you” to different segments of our society, the Tea Party sees implicit in his remarks, “hey I will keep federal dollars coming your way a vote for me is a vote for your checking account” or that he will selectively choose not to enforce some of our laws.  
This entire fight is really very superficial because none of the things currently being considered even begin to address the cataclysmic problems posed by the greying of our society.
‘A June analysis by the Congressional Budget Office concluded that keeping the U.S.’s ratio of debt to gross domestic product at current levels until the year 2085 (to avoid scaring off investors) would require spending cuts, tax hikes, or a combination of both equal to 8.3 percent of GDP each year for the next 75 years, vs. the most likely (i.e. “alternative”) scenario. That translates to $15 trillion over the next decade—or more than three times what Obama and Boehner were considering.”
The republicans began to address this issue in the smallest of ways but of course in Washington no good deed goes unpunished as they have not been excoriated as wanting to steal from our seniors only to give to the corporate jet owners and the oil companies..  It is all BS and gets us nowhere.  Ryan’s plan was about 4 trillion in savings where the CBO is telling us that we needed 15 Trillion to keep our credit rating…  What happens when the Federal credit card is paid at 3 to 4% interest instead of the 1.25 to 1.5% we have been paying over the last several years?   Just keep calling those that are trying to call attention to the issues the crazy fringe…  maybe you guys will win the elections and can tax the hell out of the rich, but this will do little to address the real issues we face as these issues are much greater than that, you could take all their wealth and it would get you just about around the block.   These are the issues that only one party has been talking about so far, and they are only talking about them because the Tea Party has pushed them to do so..  We are hearing now about tax reform that will send more revenues to the government while flattening the code and expanding the base, again the Tea Party pushing the republicans, but the libs are right about that these problems will not be fixed without tax reform that generates added revenues, but at least there are those looking to cut out the special interests that have bought and sold our nation more than just once..  and don’t look just to corporate America, look to the presidents banking and union friends for theirs are some of the greatest sins.  These problems were not all just caused by George Bush, though he did add to them as he too was fiscally irresponsible, but they will not be fixed by this president unless he has a come to god moment..  and your insolent attitude towards the Tea Party or conservatives does little to help any real discussion of the problems we face as a people.  So go ahead and put all your faith in the 536 assholes we send to Washington, maybe you will do well in the elections and they will be all your assholes who hold the future of this great nation in their hands, those who have rarely shown us the capacity to do the right things for those they serve. 

How about something a little more fitting of the democratic process? How can anyone be satisfied with either one or the other? Politicians that don’t act for the people they represent, but for the party collective and all the special interests of their political machine. Having two entities that think they own the country is hardly democratic, and something our founders had warned us against. Hopefully people are starting to wake up to how ridiculous this paradigm we keep allowing to continue is.

What the hell do you know about the Tea Party? What do you know about me?

I forgot, you are one of those leftists that loves to paint with a wide brush. When you coming to paint my basement?

You still necked?

You still necked?

Democrats don’t want to cut spending because that would mean fewer and fewer votes. They are counting on freeloader who just want another handout. There are those who are indeed in of help deservedly. But with govt spending comes waste fraud and abuse. And the democrats don’t mind if it helps them stay in power. Cut spending now is what the people are screaming, to a deaf ear on the left.

So he needed a dictionary to define anarchist, yet he still doesn’t understand the meaning of Tea Party – so what was his point again?

The two-party system is deeply flawed, and the country’s founders anticipated the problem. The two parties are deeply flawed themselves (and the single greatest contributor to those flaws is our method of financing campaigns, which ends up giving businesses and influential people way too much power).

But on a practical matter, what would you suggest?

Myself, I think I’d like to see the emergence of a few more parties that are not based on the likely-to-fail candidacy of a single individual or merely serve as the mouthpiece of a fringe group with nothing to offer the wider electorate. Maybe some Greens, perhaps a strongly centrist party that would pick up adherents from the left wing of the Republicans and the right wing of the Democrats. Add in some form of plurality voting, and you might have politicians who respond to the electorate (as filtered through their convictions) rather than a political class so concerned with reelection that they often forget to govern.

Parties are the problem. I don’t necessarily think we need more. The way the current system is anyone outside of the two hardly has a chance. They aren’t backed by a massive political machine that has reach, they hardly garner any coverage, and even if they make it you have to fall in line to get anywhere and have connections. What we should have is people doing their jobs. Independent of party interest. Doing their job of representing the people they were elected to represent. That’s their job. To consider things not based on party line, but merit and weather its good for their constituents. Same thing in regards to proposing bills and initiatives. Although what its supposed to be is somewhat of a pipedream. More choices and maybe someone for the independent centrists would be nice, but the way it is that doesn’t seem very likely.

Parties are the problem. I don’t necessarily think we need more. The way the current system is anyone outside of the two hardly has a chance. They aren’t backed by a massive political machine that has reach, they hardly garner any coverage, and even if they make it you have to fall in line to get anywhere and have connections. What we should have is people doing their jobs. Independent of party interest. Doing their job of representing the people they were elected to represent. That’s their job. To consider things not based on party line, but merit and weather its good for their constituents. Same thing in regards to proposing bills and initiatives. Although what its supposed to be is somewhat of a pipedream. More choices and maybe someone for the independent centrists would be nice, but the way it is that doesn’t seem very likely.

Here’s what I see as the problem with the Tea Pary as you have characterized it in your post (and which aligns pretty closely with my perceptions): You’re mad as hell and you’re not going to take it anymore. That sounds like self-empowerment, but it’s actually the sound one makes while being driven into a corner.

The transfer of wealth I alluded to was the result of collusion between business and government, exacerbated by government turning a blind regulatory eye when business rigged the game in increasingly brazen and shameless ways. Let’s just take one example. My company, with 50,000 employees and $25 billion of yearly revenue, is nevertheless designated an “S Corporation,” a category that’s supposed to be reserved for small businesses subject to a different tax regime than large companies. It saves the senior executives of the company (who are also the shareholders) a phenomenal amount of money. And it’s as legal as the day is long.

So the resentment is well founded. But where the Tea Party goes off the rails, for me, is that the understandable resentment toward government is being focussed almost entirely on spending — during a devastating financial downturn — and that’s intensely wrongheaded. It also means that the Tea Party is locked in a sado-masochistic relationship with the leadership of the Republican party where the question of who’s holding the whip prevents any positive outcome being achieved. Is the RNC the Tea Party’s butt boy or the other way around? Who are the useful idiots in the relationship?

The issue of the moment — which needs to be solved before we begin to worry about the greying of America — is the lack of jobs in America right now, which has been the single greatest factor in the growth of deficits (well ahead of the Bush tax cuts and the unecessary Iraq and Afghan wars). To get to a place where we can hope to solve the tidal wave of seniors that’s coming (of which I will be one) we need to get the economy going again via job creation. And that means spending more government money, not less. To the degree that the Obama stimulus failed, it was because it was too small, not because it was ill-managed or bad policy. The current hysteria over debt and deficit is both profoundly wrong and deeply cynical, and is being exploited by the right wing (of which the Tea Party is a part) for naked political advantage.

Of course, it won’t be an advantage if the world economy totally collapses, which is a distinct possibility.

I think Tea Partiers are being played for fools. And while I disagree with most of the Tea Party rhetoric I’ve heard, I’m still at risk from the political fallout from Tea Party enablers in government and media.

Sadly, I agree that what you say is a pipe dream. I also think that the concept of a party — as a mechansim for converting beliefs into policy — is not entirely bad.

But when money, power, and advantage are involved, human beings need robust structures to control their baser instincts, their inefficiency and intellectual limitations, and the complexity inherent in living on a single planet with about 7 billion people on it.

I think that structure is something very much like a political party. It’s just not working especially well at this point in American history.

With every valid argument you bring up, you invalidate it with statements like this about ACORN and SEIU. ACORN as an entity may be subdued but their people soldier on with the same corrupt practices as before. Advocating for SEIU is simply cheering for corruption.
It’s like you run the race with the right idea, but trip and fall a few yards before the finish line.

Puh-leeze. ACORN is not subdued, it’s ceased to exist.

But yes, people do still try to protect the voting rights of the traditionally disenfranchised, and yes, people still try to help those who struggle with complicated government services requirements, and yes, people still assist people in maintaining their dignity through the provision of affordable housing. If you consider such things corrupt, then I pity the poverty of your heart.

And you might not like SEIU, but it is upstanding in the face of oppression and the raw deal.

As far as races being run, I think I’m a better judge whether I break the tape than you are.

Beckle can use a dictionary? Maybe he could look up fascism and explain it to the real fascists in our society that now call themselves progressives. BTW……… Quit changing your name, you’re confusing children and old people!

They ARE the tea party, chuckles. EVERY tea party that I’ve been to says that they’re not there to discuss social issues.

Just reminding folks here again…just because someone runs in front of the parade, doesn’t make them the grand marshall. 

Looking forward to getting less or no Social Security? Looking forward to having an insurance clerk decides what health care you get? So some rich guy can trickle it all down on ya. 

“You’re mad as hell and you’re not going to take it anymore. That sounds like self-empowerment, but it’s actually the sound one makes while being driven into a corner.”  Well that may be one characterization, I would prefer one that goes a little more like this,  it is the sound that one makes as they actually get involved and do something about a situation that they perceive as a problem.
 
As far as “S” corporations that may serve to illustrate just one of many problems that we have in our tax codes but it also illustrates the need for total tax reform.  “S” corporations were never intended to become so large as the one that you work for, the intent behind the laws which allowed for the “S” corp. was to avoid double Taxation, so that Joe the plumber would not be exposed to a 35% corporate tax, and then pay 28% to 33% in personal income taxes on top of the corp taxes on the remaining profits of his small company, hardly unfair or intended to create uber-rich.  I am surprised that you did not mention the gains taxes, as currently those seem to be the most distasteful in our current economy as Wall Street millionaires and billionaires as it is arguable as to the value of their contributions to our economy yet they seem to have figured out a way to play the system for great personal reward sometimes at the cost of the American economy as we have seen recently with speculation in oil, yet they are taxed at a low 15%.  But there was also a reason for that change to our tax code as well, and it again was not intended to create uber-rich nor was it done to grant them favor, those rates were changed to address a real problem at the time of frozen capital.  My point being is that not all these loop-holes were created by lobbyist trying to gain the system, although that too has gone on far to much, we have many loop-holes created around agriculture that are way out dated, my family had a cattle ranch here in Florida and many of the neighboring farms were being paid by the Federal Government to not grow Tobacco…  Uh-What?  The same can be said for corporations..  it is time to get rid of all of it.  You can never apply a true flat-tax to a corporate or business structure as they must be allowed to first apply their operating deductions to determine their operating  profit..  If a corporation operates on a 4% profit margin for all it’s operations you can hardly tax them at 23% on gross income.  But by ridding the system of corporate loopholes and moving to a flatter tax system with overall lower rates it can be argued that you will improve the competitiveness of the US market place for international business with the benefit of throwing all those corporate lobbyist out of DC as they will no longer be able to gain the system. 
 
Tea Party focus is more than just spending I can assure you.  I will concede that they are wrong if they believe that we will get out of this mess without raising tax revenues, the failure of their not yet coming to terms with this fact is two fold, our media has become partisan they have done this at the cost of their own credibility, they have reduced their reporting to sound bites, that are either believed or disbelieved depending on the listener’s bias on the issue being reported.   The two major political parties have found it advantageous to speak to the nation solely in platitudes.  Our leadership rarely presents a problem to the American people without first spinning it for their political gain, in so doing the problem itself is often lost or so obscured by their presentation as they allow the American people to hear only what they want them to hear. As a people are left with little insight to the big problems we face.  So patience is needed to see if the The Tea Party will come around, they are not by nature unreasonable people. The Tea Party is more grass root than the talking heads are willing to admit to, if you were to go to let’s say “meetup.com” and search for the Tea Party or “9-12 Project” the local organizations that come back to your search are certainly not funded by the Koch brothers.  They do not trust the either political party nor the national media as both have sold themselves out for political influence and gain. The Tea Party is the out-growth of a libertarian movement that started some 20 years ago, and it continues its growth to the dismay of both political parties. They are new to the political scene and much less organized than people give them credit as being, even so their numbers continue to grow.  Their concerns are far greater than just taxation and budgets, they are concerned at the wiliness of Americans to give up their personal liberties as the government takes an ever larger role in our private and personal lives..  Our constitution was written from the perspective of personal liberties, there is a large push in our nation for the collective good, which is and always has been at direct contrast to the mindset of the founders.

As for your comments on Keynesian economics being used to restore this economy, I think that those days are behind us, you and I can disagree on that issue as I do not think that either could win an argument. My thought is that it only creates an even larger bubble that will burst somewhere down the road while not addressing the fundamental problems our economy faces in trying to compete in the new global economy.  No matter how much money is spent by the federal government unless the fundamental problems of the economy are addressed then any stimulated growth will only be sustained as the spending continues..  If you read the CBO report that I referred to in my previous post such spending would be done at the risk of a credit downgrade, creating as large of a structural deficit mechanism in the Federal budgets as did Bush’s tax cuts in the face of his war and Medicare spending that would be much harder for a future congress or president to correct.   

It may seem that the Tea Party is being exploited by the republican party for its own gain, I would suggest to you that the Tea Party is actually an even larger threat to the republican party than it is to the democratic party…  the Tea Party tolerates the republican party for that is its only logical home for the moment, but if current trends don’t change the Tea Party will consume the republican party as they do hold elected officials accountable to their campaign rhetoric and have already demonstrated their capacity to create wholesale change within the party.  Tea Party is the largest voting bloc in the country, this has less impact on a national election than it does on primary elections as most Tea Party members vote republican at this point they can only work to define the republican party and help to shape the national debate.  Be patient with the Tea Party, they will find their errors and correct them as it is true that they have blundered, but so have the major parties.  It is refreshing to me to see a growth in a national movement that simply says throw the bums out, they do not tolerate elected officials who work for personal gain, yes they will make mistakes, but they will also grow, it is a very young and unsophisticated movement that has shown tremendous ability…  if you fear their direction then get involved with them, they are open to all and they will listen to your point of view, you will not change them in a day, but you and people like yourself can help to plant the seeds that will help them to see some of their errors.

The TPARTY NATION is a parallel universe growing up in the US and is as much a threat to the UNION as the confederacy. They are willing to let the US fail, so that they can rebuild it in their image.

Speaking on an Internet
radio program yesterday, Rep Mike Rogers (R-AL) explained that a Republican-controlled
House, Senate, and White House would make “dramatic changes,” not only in
gutting Medicare and Social Security, but discontinuing the EPA: 

ROGERS: You know the fact is, if in fact I think the American people do next November
what they started last November, that is, cleaning house, and we do get a
Republican-controlled Senate and a Republican president, I think you going to
see some dramatic structural changes in
this country because we can’t continue to support this infrastructure we have.
And I’m not talking about just changes to the trust funds and the entitlement
programs. 
These folks with their boatload of money are recruiting RICK PERRY a state’s rights advocate and secessionist as a candidate  for the presidency. And in states where the GOP has taken over, OH, FL,NJ, MI AND WI the legislatures have given governors dictatorial powers over financial matters and disposition of public assets. Yeah, the TPARTY PATRIOTS are winning a war of words and propaganda and rebuilding the US in their image. An image where the rich get richer, WEALTH is more valued than work and people are just collateral damage in the transnational corporate pursuit of profit.

Beckle seems likable enough, until he opens his mouth and starts echoing the Liberal position, then he becomes just another Obamacon spuing the socialist agenda. His socialist argument border on childish. Even when confronted with indisputable facts he will say they are false and will continue to hold on to the Liberal talking points. He’s becoming as tired and boring to listen to as Obimbo has become.  

I’m sorry,. Did you say something?

I’m not fond of Beckel, but he is less disgusting than Alan Colmes and others who are frequently asked to stand up for the Left.

As for the Budget Control Act, the so-called Boehner plan, it need never have been necessary. If Harry Reid was looking for something to use as a vehicle, something he could modify and amend to make it his own, then he could have done that with the Cut-Cap-Balance bill that was passed by the House more than a week ago.

But instead Reid threw away that opportunity, and the tea party caucus in the House reacted logically. Once another bill was put forward, it was pretty important that it pass. I understand and sympathize with those 22 Republicans who voted against — Cut-Cap-Balance was a better bill in every respect, and it not only got more Republicans to vote in favor but also a number of Democrats.

The administration and the Senate Democrats want us to believe that the House Republicans are not serious about controlling the debt — that this is all about politics. But they were warned in JANUARY that there would be no increase in the debt limit without spending control. They have wasted almost seven months, ignoring and misrepresenting the Republican position.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/daily/boehner-reacts-coolly-to-geithner-s-warning-on-debt-limit-20110106

Four to one, “fair and balanced”,… seems about right!

If the shoe(or definition) fits… Its’ about time there is some truth on FOX

You have to be kidding!!!!!! the blood of patriots,,,,, get the opposition in the crosshairs…  RELOAD????
That’s not voilence??????   What planet do you live on???

Watch something other then FOX and you’ll see….It wasn’t a Democrat that walked out of the talks… and the House voted down a Senate bill before it was even presented to them????  Get a clue…

Much to agree with in your post, and much to debate.

Overall, I’d say I’m not optimistic about radical change — whether it be the emergence of a long-lived third (or fourth!) party or a complete rewrite of the tax code — 1) happening at all; 2) being successful; 3) not causing chaos (at an historical moment when steadiness is called for above all).

I’m much more in favor of evolutionary change, and as a liberal and life-long Democrat, I’d much rather see my party get its act together, chase the moneychangers from the temple (by which I mean campaign finance reform), spend what needs to be spent now, and evolve to a new form that would probably include several of the elements you say the Tea Party supports.

The next several days are critical, and I sincerely hope that — a month from now — we’re not looking at an economic firestorm that’ll make 1929 look like a minor blip. And if we are and for what it’s worth, should that happen, the Tea Party is going to be seen as the wrecker.

Expat..  see, we really are not that far apart…  the tax changes that I would hope to see will not take place in this current fight, but they could take place during the next one to two years, if the politicans would leave the rhetoric and vitriol outside of the chambers and do the work of the American people…  How hard woudl a flat personal income tax be?  You could allow personal exemptions that could be set at levels to protect the poor, It is realatively simple, at least to me it makes a great deal of sense, but our politics will not allow it to happen.. 

I do not like the current moment anymore than you do, I also know that my Tea Party friends have to change a little in their mindset because you can not simply starve the beast…  you must feed it too. 

Take care.

Progressives are fascists, ehh? Any examples to cite? Given the sloppy definitions of “anarchist” floating around in this thread, I’d be interested to see if your definition of “fascist” is any more precise.

Or “progressive,” for that matter.

Hey Beckel while you’re at it look up ‘loud mouthed lard ass’…lol

@ expatpatriot- When you have a multitude of candidates on the ballot of the general election, you end up with Governors like Sarah Palin. There were 6 or 7 candidates on the ballot that November in 2006 in Alaska and Palin ended up winning with only 114,000 votes. Too many candidates, especially non-fringe candidates, end up splitting up the vote so much that the best candidates don’t win.

@youmustbejoking:disqus nonsense. So people must give up their political careers for what’s best for the collective parties? Don’t give me that Sarah Palin crap. Why so obsessed that you would use her single case to denounce something that isn’t this undemocratic system where we have two entities garneted power always. So for the greater good of the collective(both of them) we should enforce them being the only options? Sounds like a fix to me. We are supposed to have a representative democracy, not a fixed co-opted dictatorship like the one you are recommending.

bob beckle is a mentaly unstable drunk with wet brain from the booze an having his fat head up obamas ass..

Mr Beckel needs to use another word for Tea Party. I am a member of the Tea Party, my friends are too and we ARE NOT TERRORISTS of any kind!!! To use a term like that is beyond the pale!!! I am a Senior Citizen, still work at two jobs, raised 2 college educated kids who cannot find decent jobs, vote in every election, have tutuored kids who are disadvanced, and pay ALL OF MY TAXES!!! I love my Country with all my heart, support Our Military and their Families, and volunteer when I can. Mr Bickel and his commrades, are AFRAID of the Tea Party. There has been NO video or pictures of Tea Party members destroying property nor being distruptive. Mr Beckel needs to upgrade his vocabulary. I will NO LONGER watch Fox when he is on!!! Anne-Marie Hastings TeaBagging Grannie!!!!

Bob, I was crushed by your statements on The Five. I am 66yrs old. I mow my own yard, clean my own home, cook my own food, paint my own house (inside and out), build my own deck, wash my own windows, teach Middle School Mathematics (180) students per day… I am raising a grandchild. I am NOT the exception!! Most Americans do their own work. For you to insinuate we need other people to do thoes things for us is WRONG. There are no jobs Americans won’t do. YOU are part of the soft, nonphysical elite. You are out of touch with regular Americans.

NO WANDER HE WAS DRUG ADDICT ALCOHOLIC HE SO EGOTISTICAL SEL CENTERED IDDIOT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HERD WANDER HOW HE IS MEDICATING THAT PERSONALLITY NOW

yes but more tied of left

How much do you get paid to post on sites like this Expatpatriot?

People on the right are. Independents on the other hand are tired of everybody. All of these idealogs and partisans who think they own the country. The independents might have went to the right in poor times while they are in the minority, but that doesn’t change how they swaying back and forth because both sides suck. Just wait until they vote against the majority of Rs again. Many polls are showing that people are tired of both of them, and aren’t in agreement to the one size fits all approach of either of them.

He isn’t he just told the tea party go to hell didn’t your great president say tone it down this guy is a idiot

dude really?
screw anarchist.. look up the word, hypocrite..

Say what?