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It’s hard to argue that any one member of the White House press corps during the Biden administration made more news — or rather, went more viral — than Fox’s Peter Doocy.

The senior White House correspondent had an uncanny knack for being the one guy in the briefing room who consistently asked the most challenging questions of Press Secretaries Jen Psaki or Karine Jean-Pierre. And on the rare occasion that former President Joe Biden was available to hear questions shouted out, it was often Doocy’s booming baritone that cut through the din of others, getting Biden’s ears to perk up in a manner that he didn’t always seem to enjoy.

Like so many leading figures in today’s political media theater, Doocy has become a lightning rod for attention, earning high praise from Biden critics for presciently asking tough questions on legitimate issues the rest of the press corps might dismiss as a conservative media fixation. He also earned criticism from some who argued his questions were asked in bad faith, or that he was trolling a Democratic administration to thrill the mostly-conservative audience of the network to which he files his reports.

Biden delighted in calling Doocy out, once famously deriding him as a “stupid son of a bitch” when asked if the economy would hurt his re-election bid (SPOILER: it did!). Doocy showed grace in accepting Biden’s personal apology, in a

performance of professionalism that is often nowhere to be found in the crazed political media landscape of 2024.

I sat down with Doocy this week for a wide-ranging discussion of his last four years and how he sees his role in a press briefing room under both Biden and Trump. He revealed his thoughts on Psaki, Jean-Pierre, and how he expects the new White House communications shop to function. He advised the new team on how the next four years could go, and explained how his prodding Trump to look for a letter left by Biden in the Resolute Desk made some news.

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and concision.

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Hall: Let’s start with the news. You have made a lot of news recently; even last night, you reminded President Trump of the letter that President Biden had left for him. How did how does that come about?

Doocy: It’s the one thing that every president does is leave a letter. And I was just curious. I had asked the White House official earlier if Biden left the letter and I was told it’s Trump’s office. He’s not in there yet. We don’t know. And so I think that he truly it was so perfect that it looked like me and him worked it out ahead of time. Okay. I’m going to ask about this letter and then you open the

you know, let’s do a big dramatic reveal. But it wasn’t it was it was just an organic midway through. I kind of couldn’t believe that nobody had asked about it yet. Right. And he did a big dramatic reveal. And I thought he was going to read it to us, which would have been great. We can try again for that next time. But it was just I was curious. And he, the TV producer president, was very dramatically revealed that it was in there and that was great. And that is a that is a piece of history.

Hall: Right? It was a great moment. It reminded me that it’s the second time in about a week that you’ve made a lot of news from being in the room with former President-elect Trump and now President Trump in Mar a Lago with the governors. You treated that press gaggle or the press pool almost like an interview. What is it about you — are you just the only loudmouth that’s part of the press corps?

Doocy: I think that he is a big consumer of all different kinds of media. And as a former president, he watched for a couple of years where we were often shuttled out of the room before we had a chance to pick Joe Biden’s brain. And I think lately and I don’t know if it&

#8217;s going to continue like this, but lately it seems like he is trying to make a point that he is willing to let people know what he is thinking. And it’s one of those things, I think, when Biden or his aides would tell us that he did not know about a topic, it was probably true because he had such a limited media diet, whereas Donald Trump, it seems like he knows what’s in the news. He knows what’s in the gossip columns, he knows what’s on the sports page, and he wants to weigh in on everything. And not everything will make big news. But he wants to at least let people know what he thinks about. Anything out there. And so and I felt at Mar a Lago, and last night in the Oval Office, I felt like there really is anything that I could bring up, anything. And he would have an answer for it. And. My approach with Biden was always, I’m going to try to ask something that nobody else is asking that maybe I heard about that my neighbor told me about, or that somebody on the street told me that they were interested in. And I will continue doing that with Trump. And I think he will. He’ll often have some kind of an opinion. He’ll say something even if he doesn’t know about
it.

Hall: Even your old friend (Mediaite writer) Tommy Christopher talked about how influential you were within the press corps because you had asked questions that no one else would ask, and a lot of the news narratives resulted from that. Do you think it was fair that the Biden administration saw you as a thorn in their side? I’ve heard criticisms from the Biden defenders and administration that some of your questions were bad faith or trolls.  Jake Sullivan once said that one of your questions was like, ‘Have you stopped beating your spouse?” How did you how do you react to that level of criticism?

Doocy: Well, if you look at everything that I was asking about before anybody else, all of these things either came true or had a huge impact on the election. And so we’re asking in 2019 about Hunter Biden’s business deals. The president was very angry and he was assuring us that there was no there there. Five years later, six years later, there’s a full, unconditional pardon because he was in big trouble. He was convicted by the Justice Department who did yearslong multimillion dollar investigations. We were asking about the border. We were asking about his age. We were asking about classified documents. All of these things were uncomfortable at the time to ask about. And it’s not like we’re looking for vindication because these aren&

#8217;t just made up things, but they were uncomfortable topics and we were just first on everything. And I hope that we continue to be first with Trump on stuff. Even if it’s uncomfortable.

Hall:   You recently posted an Instagram photo of you and Karine Jean-Pierre and expressed some conviviality. Talked about how ‘We made a lot of news,’  how would you for I think people outside the business, they see you on TV, they see sort of a confrontation, but they miss the fact that you’re both working professionals and the relationship between the administration, and the press is by nature confrontational. Can you speak to the professional or familiarity and how convivial or challenging that relationship was?

Doocy: I would say that in the briefing room, a lot of the tension is very real. When you are confronting somebody about something that is uncomfortable for them or that they are going to have a very hard time explaining. But to their great credit, the Biden people continued to call on us. They don’t call on everybody every day. And they knew pretty early on what they were going to get from me. And this is the president himself and both Jen Psaki and Karim Jean-Pierre. But they continued to engage and they would have people from their staff come down a couple of hours before the briefing and ask generally what we were interested in and we

would engage with them because I’m not in there trying to make anybody look bad. I know that some of this stuff gets distilled down into like a 15 second Twitter clip or something on Instagram reels.

But they know that we have a huge audience that is interested in topics that the rest of the front row is not going to ask about. And they know that if something has been asked five different times by other people, we’re not going to cover it. And there would be a lot of briefings where there would be a singular focus on whatever the big story of the day was. And we would always try to come, but we would always try to approach it differently. Because when Joe Biden is talking so little in public and it did become less and less and less, the press secretaries briefing is the only chance that we have to get administration reaction. They didn’t they didn’t really ever send it or they very rarely sent anybody except national security types out to the 10th to do interviews. And so it was but we were always going to have like at least three questions in a briefing. And it was we had a professional relationship. I know that half the country doesn’t want to hear that. You know, people people look at the questions or the answers and they have strong opinions about it,

about me or about the press secretaries. But it was always very professional. I don’t think that there was ever any animosity. There definitely wasn’t for me.

Hall: It did seem, especially after Jen Psaki left like you had a different relationship with her than with Karine Jean-Pierre. How would you compare the White House press shop under those two sorts of press secretaries?

Doocy: That’s a good question. I think the news was just so different. Like Jen Psaki’s entire time there, they were managing the pandemic and we were in there trying to figure out why the rules were so confusing and why the president was violating his own rules and what. And it was it was a lot of that. And then. And I think Jen Psaki really relished the fight. She approached these things like it was going to be a fight, whereas Karine was approaching it like she was going to give an answer, try to explain the administration’s position on something or the administration’s plans in a in a structured way. And so I think that was the biggest difference.

Hall: Do you still plan to stay in touch with both?

Doocy: I’ve seen Jen a couple of times since she left, but we don’t keep in touch. And I’m sure that I’ll run into Karine at some point, but I don’

t see us being texting buddies.

Hall: One of the most notable moments in which you sort of transcended from reporter to news item is when President Biden called you a “stupid son of a bitch.” And one that struck me about that was that you went on to Fox & Friends shortly after, and you showed what I thought was a tremendous amount of grace in explaining how President Biden called you later and apologized. And, you know, there’s this old pickup basketball line ‘no blood blow, foul’ idea. It appeared that you didn’t let that get you angry or aggrieved. Looking back, do you think your question about how the economy hurt his reelection chances was fair? Were you angry? Were you embarrassed at all that Biden called you that name?

Doocy: I was not angry or embarrassed. I think it’s not like my assignment changes or my responsibilities change. Just because the president used a dirty word and talking to me. And so. If you look at the question, what’s so funny about that? And I get that in trying to look back over the last couple of years, and I know that the press, the former president, and I had a few things that did kind of become big blow-ups, and maybe that was the worst one. But I was basically just asking him if inflation is bad. It’s not some gotcha

question. That’s not like anything that’s really embarrassing for him. It’s just asking him if inflation is bad. And his answer was his answer did not match the question. And that’s it’s one of those things like when I try to as I look ahead to the next couple of years and I try to figure out what the approach needs to be with Trump, it’s going to be the same. The difference is everything with Biden had to be distilled into like an eight second. Very catchy, attention grabbing sentence that I could shout to him, try to get his attention. Hope for a short answer. Whereas with Trump, I can ask him the same exact thing. But I don’t think we’re going to be in such a hurry. And at least based on the beginning, it seems like his staff will not be physically pushing us out of the Oval Office screaming, thank you. Press Okay, that’s it. No questions. And so the questions can be the same. It’s just the way that these guys answer it just in terms of will they be heading for the exit or will they actually stand at the microphone and talk will be different.

Hall: I found it pretty interesting how you outed the Biden administration for the stagecraft that they used, especially in the last year or so of the

Biden administration, and how they tried to keep Biden from answering questions and potentially making mistakes by rushing him out or playing loud music or what have you. Which begs the question about what I think most people now accept to be pretty clear: Biden’s cognitive decline in the last year. And my personal opinion is that it seemed to have gotten way worse over the last year than it did early on. How readily apparent was that for you in the room? How much of there was a conversation within the White House press corps that it was clear that Biden’s gait had stiffened, that his answers were slower and that his team was shielding him from the press more than you might expect?

Doocy: I don’t know about a conversation within the press corps, but it’s just that the way that. They structured events, they wanted us to see him or made. Whether they wanted this or this is just how they did it. We started to see him less and less and less. And so if you see him once a week and he says something wrong or he makes a mistake, then that one tiny thing is going to be all that anybody focuses on. And it wasn’t just the things on camera. I had a chance a couple of times during the early years of his administration, if there was something that he thought was

being misconstrued or if he thought that his answer to me came across poorly, he would call and clear the air. And that happened less and less and less and not at all in the last year and a half or so.

Hall: You chalk that up to his mental acuity? Or a bunker mentality that presidents eventually take because, naturally, there’s a lot of criticism. Regardless of whether you’re a Republican or Democrat, there are enormous amounts of media that are dedicated to either supporting or bringing down the sitting president. Do you think that his avoiding the press was part of a mental thing, or was it more like he just was throwing in the towel?

Doocy: It could be, but it could also just be the practical reality that his circle was getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And then, in the end, it’s just like his chief of staff and two aides who had been with him forever, as well as his family. And that was it. So it could have been either of those things.

Hall:  Pivoting to the next four years? How do you expect the White House press briefing room to be different under the Trump administration? Not so much with just Trump answering questions and eager to speak to the microphone as opposed to Biden. But how will the White House comms shop under Trump differ from the last four years? Do you see Karoline Levitt

as more like Kayleigh McEnany or Stephanie Gresham in taking daily press conferences?

Doocy: I would think probably more like Kayleigh or Sarah Sanders. She has been trusted by the president, who doesn’t trust his but doesn’t trust very many people to be messengers. For him to go out and do a fair amount of TV. Early on, I have no idea what the briefing schedule is going to be. They haven’t promised a daily briefing and there’s not one on the first day. So it might be something like in a first Trump administration where they stop on the driveway after they do a TV hit and do an informal gaggle for 10 or 15 minutes. But in the beginning at least, it seems like these the Trump officials that I have dealt with and I was I didn’t cover the Trump campaign before the Capital One rally this weekend. I hadn’t actually covered any Trump rallies in five years. And so I don’t know a ton of the staff that well, but it seems like they all understand that. The big boss is going to talk sometimes, like in the Oval Office. On this inauguration night, nobody seemed worried about him talking or taking questions. Nobody was trying to chew us out or or keep the questions on a singular focus. And so I think they will all figure out, like how the briefings

work. But it will it will be very similar to the first time in that the president will drive the news. So whereas with Biden, he they wanted it backwards. They wanted communications officials out there trying to shape the message.

Hall: You got sort of in trouble with was when I think you very pointedly asked if Biden’s White House staff was treating President Biden like a baby.  And it was clearly about what looked at the decline that proved to be true. Could you see yourself asking such a pointed question about the Trump administration, given how Trump seems to like you now?

Doocy: Absolutely. And if I had a chance to ask the president, President Biden himself that question, I would have. But we were just so limited with the opportunities for the last year and a half or so. But like I was in there last night, I asked Trump about the criticism that he was going to be a dictator on day one. I asked him about his reversal on Tick Tock, which is going to be a big story. It was a national security issue until it wasn’t. And so I will I would. Absolutely. And the baby question, it was because somebody wrote a book and said that Biden felt like he was being babied after a speech in Poland. And he was frustrated because I think he referenced he didn’t think Jack Kennedy would have been

treated that way. And I would absolutely ask Trump or his officials the same question, the same way if a book came out or if that was something that I heard. And I think we will have chances to do that.

Hall: Do you ever worry about trying to strike that balance or avoid inserting or injecting your own kind of biased opinion into your questions? How do you how do you deal with your own implicit bias?

Doocy: I mean, I think that the way that a live shot is structured, you’re putting things that you think is at least the way that I approach it. I’m putting together a live shot, and it’s just all the things that I think are the most interesting. It’s not all the things that I think are going to advance a political point or all the things that I think might make somebody look bad. It’s just these are the three best, most interesting soundbites. People who have like five minutes to watch TV or this might be the only thing that they see all day. They want to know what’s happening and why. And that’s my entire approach. I we get so busy, I really don’t have time to. Like. To shape things any way other than that.

Hall:  I’ve written about how Fox News sometimes appears to put its thumb on the

scale by not reporting stories that other networks report more. For example, with John Kelly said — a conservative four-star general — said some really negative things about President Trump that wasn’t really covered that much on Fox News. I just watched you now reporting on Harris Faulkner’s show about the January 6 pardons, which I applaud you for. That’s a big story and I credit you for doing that. The pardons really go against what even Trump and JD Vance have each said about these some of the violent people in the past. This seems like a big deal. The most violent, some of the most violent protesters getting a pass that seems to be a story that will continue. Can you see yourself continuing to press the administration on that?

Doocy: When it comes up. But I don’t see any reason to bring it up unless they’re talking about it. Right. And I think the biggest part of that yesterday was just that he said for a long time he was going to pardon these guys on day one and they could not explain or they didn’t really explain who was going to get included with that or why. And then he did it. And it was it was part of the day one. You know, they were making a big point about promises made, promises guaranteed, said he was going to do a bunch of stuff

on day one, and he did it. Who knows how much of that stuff will get reversed or don’t they’ll get sued for. But I think that was the biggest part of the story. But no, I don’t think that or anything else I would bring up unless there’s a reason to.

Hall: Trump has a complicated relationship with Fox News, evidenced by the end of his campaign; he appeared on Fox a ton, perhaps recognizing that it’s dominant, and has a huge reach. Yet he’s been very critical of Fox very often, or at least he was about a year ago. If Biden or other sort of a Democrat, say Obama when he was critical of Fox News, that was a big deal. Do you think that Trump gets a pass from the network?

Doocy: You know,  I really haven’t thought about it. And I didn’t cover the first Trump White House, so I don’t really know if that’s like different than he used to and things that he used to say, but I haven’t really thought about that.

Hall: Does it affect you? Does it keep you from access or anything? When when you’re in the White House, are you pretty much I mean, it seems like when Trump was talking to you last night in the Oval Office, he thanked you. It seems

like you have enjoyed quite a convivial relationship.

Doocy: And I feel very lucky to. And it’s kind of a crazy thing for a 37-year-old White House reporter to be able to say that. I’ve known the president for ten years, but I think he knows that I have treated him fairly with the coverage. And I think that the main thing that he and his team want is just to be treated fairly.

Hall:  One of the things that you and some on Fox News criticized the Biden administration for was a threat to free speech, and First Amendment rights, and across the parties across the spectrum would, I think, reasonable arguments, good arguments, and some that were, you know, less so more partisan driven. Trump is suing news outlets. Right? Do you think that the criticism of the Biden administration’s threats of First Amendment rights, what those same standards will be applied to Trump when he goes after reporters and writers who are writing things that he doesn’t like?

Doocy: I think so. I don’t see why I wouldn’t.

Hall: If you were to give any advice to Trump’s comms team over the next four years and how they should treat the press, what would you what would you what would your advice to them be?

Doocy: It seems like everybody on the first day, all the Trump officials that I dealt

with were very relaxed and everybody seemed like they were in a good mood. My advice would just be to. Keep that going because I bet there are going to be stressful things that come up and. It doesn’t do anybody any good, including their boss, to get all worked up about it. So that would be my advice. Not that they are going to ask for it.

Hall: The first Trump administration was sort of notorious for having leaks like senior aides would openly share details that were sometimes by design and then complaining. It doesn’t seem like this administration — it’s day one or day two — but it seems a little bit more disciplined. Have you sensed that? They seem a little bit more of a professional shop than the first admin?

Doocy: Yes. And I would caveat that by saying I was not around the Trump White House very much. But. Donald Trump had four years to think about how he would do things differently, and it seems like he has stashed. His campaign and then his personal office, post-presidency. And now this White House with people that he knows a lot better than the folks that were around the first time. Because the first time I remember, he was making a point to say that he had all these generals around and he liked having generals around, but he didn’t really know the generals, whereas now

he knows and I think trust as much as he would trust anybody that’s not in the family, the people that are around.

Hall:  As nontraditional outlets rise in influence. How do you feel about podcasters and individuals with maybe nontraditional journalistic standards are getting time in the briefing room.  Do you find that as a looming turf war or, you know, podcasters on both sides ask softball questions and you can see why Biden and Trump maybe did more of those interviews during the campaign. Are you worried that that might get into the briefing room or do you not care as much?

Doocy: Not worried. I think it would be great. And just because something is being asked that is not super confrontational doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a softball. And I know that a lot of these podcasters that cover or focus more on things that you’re not going to see on the nightly news or on Special Report. But if they have a chance to bring some nice topic into the briefing room and you have a White House that’s willing to engage. I think that would be great.

Hall: But where do you get your news from outside of Fox. When you want to broaden your sensibility and get a sense of what people are saying across the spectrume. What does your media diet look like?

Doocy:  My inbox is subscribed to all of the various

newsletters, and so I do get a lot of this stuff from all the major newspapers and big online outlets. Within a few minutes of them publishing it and our Fox does a good job of having different beat producers assigned to the various places in town and out of town who will be monitoring things that they think are interesting and they will send it out and then they’ll start to send accompanying soundbites or quotes or things like that. And so it. Most of what I consume is via email. I, I try not to look at social media because I feel like it is. There’s a lot of groupthink happening on there.

And yeah, and I don’t want to have my opinion shaped by the way that other reporters are thinking about things. I want to come up with my own. My own idea about why something is important or why it’s interesting. And I think over the last couple of years, I have shown that I do approach things a lot differently than most of the other White House reporters.

Hall: It’s it’s unique that you work with your father. Right. There has been around sort of anchors, Fox and Friends, for a bunch of reasons. What’s more unique is the two of you seem to like working so well together. You seem to really enjoy each other’s company. Is

there ever any dad-son tension?

Doocy: We do genuinely enjoy each other’s company and it’s great because I, I — He is the smartest guy that I know in TV and he is the smartest guy that I know when it comes to. Understanding politics, and it’s something that we’re both interested in. It consumes so much of both of our days. His just starts a lot earlier than mine. And so we talk a lot about things that we think are funny that happen or things that are big stories or things that we’ve heard. And I am very lucky that sometimes we get to do that on TV together, but that I he’s a phone call away or a text away anytime that I need advice about anything or and that’s that’s about everything. Not just about news stuff. Just about anything. I’m very lucky to have that.

Hall: That’s a good point to end on. Peter, this was a great rehearsal. We should do it again and record it.

Doocy: I got it! You know, I’m here. I’m here any time you want to talk.

Hall: We’ll do this tomorrow. Every day, Standing appointment.

Doocy: If there’s no briefing, I’m afraid I’m here.

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Tags: Donald Trump, Fox News, Jen Psaki, Joe Biden, Karine Jean-Pierre, Peter Doocy, Steve Doocy