The gift that keeps giving! Guffaw. 

hahahahaha

Question to conservatives:
If Cain is elected, are we liberals going to go through 4 years of being told to ignore stupid things he says and does or be labeled racist?  

Thank you Conservatives for giving us imbeciles like this that EXEMPLIFY your voters!

How come you guys never analyze obama, like you are doing Cain?

Mitt Romney is the luckiest man in the world. All he has to do is stay out of the way and the field self destructs around him.

Somehow you don’t point out that he knew the size of China’s economy, and their rate of growth. Do you Frances Martel know that?

You people that write these gotcha stuff have issues.

b-b-b-but the leftists media is attacking him because of his race for pointing out that Cain is wrong about China’s nuclear capabilities.

 This man is a complete dumbbell, an embarrassment to anyone with a pulse

He has a BS in mathematics (Morehouse), and an MS in Computer Science (Purdue). Of course he is a dumbbell.

LMAO.. this is just too much.

attn Mitt Romney, just keep your mouth shut and you got this..

I hope Herbie can also solve the North and South Vietnam crisis.

You’re right.  I’m going to give Herman the benefit of the doubt.  He was probably thinking of North Korea, and believes all Asian countries are the same.

A nuclear capability is an ambiguous term.    In the next sentence he referred to aircraft carriers which are friggin’ useless unless they are nuclear. Also China is second in the world only behind the U.S. with their submarine fleet which once again is useless without a nuclear reactor.  They use diesel/electric subs primarily but are known to have a handful of nuclear powered Shang-class subs modeled after Russian subs.

The fact that China is a nuclear power is not “gotcha stuff.”  It’s one of the defining realities of global politics.

You gotta give Herb credit, he has this thing figured out…

The dumber you act the higher your poll numbers will go with the teabaggers.

It’s called The Palin Equation.

Wait until they master the steam engine, Herb!

It would be easy to pile on Mr Cain, but it would not be fair to do so. Someone throw the towel before he is bloodied any more this week.

That’s not good! China (been) under NPT. 

I hear Herb Cain is also worried that Castro might topple Batista soon.

He’s a buffoon.   Backroom hawks are using him as the clownish black-man in the party for a reason.

Herman Cain must read the same newspapers as Sarah Palin.

You people who think such a demonstration of ignorance by a candidate for president is “gotcha” have issues.

Isn’t it funny how quick conservatives are to adopt the ‘playing the race card’ cop-out they’ve been accusing the left of for years?

next they’ll be asking really tough questions – like ‘name a newspaper.’

Do you know how big the economy of China is, and their growth rate? How do you think he knows that, but doesn’t know they are a nuclear power?

You liberals have serious issues. Obama thinks we have 57 states. Is that also not a defining reality of America? 

they are not analyzing him per se, this is a “media” site.. they report on what the media is reporting that is new and controversial…

Yes absolutely, and then you’ll get a taste of what we’ve been going thru since Obama got in office

keep defending the indefensible..  makes you all continually look like complete fools

Hell Cain didn’t even know what the term neocon meant either…

You conservatives keep bringing up that 57 state Obama issue as a defence. Pathetic…that was a slip of the tongue whereas these candidates are displaying a serious lack of knowledge about important issues. Apples and oranges to quote Mr. Cain.

57 states?

When I heard months ago that he studied mathematics and computer science, I couldn’t believe it.  He hasn’t demonstrated a lick of intelligence in any policy speeches, interviews, or debates.  You can’t run on college degrees you got 40 years ago.

Obama has never been accused of sexual harassment. 

He obviously relies on talking points, not knowledge. Is there any other way to read it?

weak..is that all you got? A slip of the tongue vs a lack of knowledge.

I’m continually amazed that regular posters on blogs know more about foreign policy than Herman Cain.

The New York Times is now reporting that one of Cain’s victims was paid a settlement of $35,000, a full year’s pay.  This is in stark contrast to Cain’s latest version of events (again).

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/us/politics/herman-cain-accuser-got-a-years-salary-in-severance-pay.html?hp

Let’s concentrate on Cain. We have heard the Obama-57-state thing ad nauseum. It gets old and is not even relevant here. Perhaps you’re the one with issues with your ADD-esque retorts. 

It’s incredible…especially when used by Coultergeist.

Dems, would love to see you win Herman

9-9-9,9-9-9,9-9-9.Analysis complete. Cain is a very stupid man.

A conservative friend of mine says Obama has been revealed as the Empereor with no clothes. My rejoinder was the Republican field is naked dwarfs and a shape shifter.

Does he think there are 57 STATES?
lol
Only a moron would think that…oh, wait!

Former President of National Restaurant Association has Ties to the Mitt Romney Campaign

http://tinyurl.com/3nxz3mq

Thanks Tea partiers…he now fears nukes in China!

Why don’t you tell us all what it means….?

B-U-F-F-O-O-N

seriously from the beginning everyone figured it was a gop campaign who planted the seed.. but it doesn’t matter

1) fact remains the story is apparenlty true
20 fact of how he handled all this, esp when politico gave him 10 days to respond and/or prepare for the story to be outed..  the fact of how cain chose to behave during all this speaks volumes of who and what he is, and how incompetent he is.

You are absolutely right.

Romney wins by the default of seeming the least the stupid choice.

Herman Cain’s knowledgeability on Foreign Policy amounts to a worrying 0-0-0 Plan.

This goes beyond any Politics, because it’s just not good enough…

Whether or not GR knows what a Neocon is doesn’t matter.  It does matter, however, if a guy running for president knows what at Neocon is. 

How big was the object that hit your head and caused you to forget the entire 8 years preceding Obama’s term?  I’ll bet it hurted (Bush Jr. 2006) real bad. 

Ok serio

The slow information drip…drip…drip effect continues…

…I wonder if the same negative reaction might start applying to his poll numbers?

As a computer scientist myself I can tell you that one doesn’t have to be particularly smart. Just like in any other field, any yahoo can study it in college, but the smart ones distinguish themselves – invent cool ideas etc. which Cain hasn’t.

Because Obama seems to be fairly lucid in his thoughts.

You know what tomorrow is, don’t you?

Only a moron would keep bringing up the 57 states slip of the tongue from Obama vs the severe lack of knowledge displayed by these Republican candidates. Are you really stupid enough to believe that the President thinks there are 57 states? 

Hahahaha. Hihihihi.

Cain, idol of the dumb and ignorant.  You can´t outgrow China, best case you can slow down the tempo they catch up. He´s a mathematician or something. When the U.S. grows 5-6% and China grows 10%, guess who outgrows whom? It´s not the U.S outgrowing China.

Nice touch, not knowing that China has nuclear weapons.

Cain for President of Teabaggerstan!!!

Is Newt Gingrich the new front runner?

…I’m listening?

Another bad day for Herman Cain.

I will vote for him. He is for smoking and utter lunacy

Good link KT…

The NY Times story is going to do damage. I’m glad they are doing their job thoroughly.

He might start to wish he was in Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan.

Herbie the Love Bug is having a tough week isn’t he?  It’s all crashing down around him.  His accuser now wants to talk and his lies will be further exposed.  Oh.  And he’s proving his lack of intellect (which is a common characteristic of the far right such as he).  So who’s next, GOPers?  Who on your list of candidates is the next crash and burn victim?  Love watching this… 

9-9-9 is a joke ya’ll ….get get getup get down
    
                                                   

I read on Politico his wife may appear on Fox News to assure the base that he did nothing more inappropriate with his employees than Bill O’Reilly did with Andrea Makris.

shame…liberals only shine the light with the media on certain things to get it their way. i mean, thats how obama got into office. that loony son of a bitch shouldn’t be allowed a second term.

It’s not the expansion of their nuclear program Cain should be worried about. He should be worried about the expansion of their naval capabilities.

Now I believe Obama sucks…
But seriously grab a history text book and read about the years 2001-2009.

Mediaite, how dense are you? Nuclear capability isn’t just nuclear weapons. Cain was referring to China building nuclear aircraft carriers which can be a threat.

Low IQ Conservatives/Republicans/Tea Baggers celebrate and embrace ignorance. After all, the educated and informed are the evil “elite” that they so despise. That is why such gaffes will not hurt Herman Cain. 

Wait till one or more of these chicks talk–at least one wants to right now!

Ouch, Mr. Pizza man!

W Bush proved this perfectly.

“We” want a president we would feel comfortable sitting down with us for a beer.

Knowing “stuff?”

Naw!

Ha..crazy but plausible.

I just hope we can act in time before the Russians get the bomb, and quick someone warn Pearl Harbor about the Japanese, they are planning an attack. Honestly, where do conservatives find these people? Are you sure he was CEO of a pizza company, he sounds like the delivery boy.

Even better, ‘WE LANDED ON THE MOON!!!’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-f_DPrSEOEo

So you are admitting that you’re unprincipled hypocrites. 

Calling China a threat was stupid, too.

…didn’t finesse it all or even speak about our common economic interests. Think the Chinese like that?

You don’t hire some businessman twat to be your president. “Buy low–sell high” is not governance.

When will the dip$hits in this country wake up from their permaboner with the business world?

Not soon enough…

Yes, that’s exactly what your side did – in regards to the scummy sexual allegations, not this – for you didn’t think you could afford to have him lead the Republican presidential field for even a split second – for each day that he leads gives lie to your side’s lazy core argument against Republican leadership. You couldn’t bear to wait for gaffs like these so you had to go out and make up your own. The underlying reason? To perpetuate a lie so to keep Democratic voting blacks – and whites indoctrinated with racial guilt – from understanding their interests aren’t really served by a single party.

You mean bread lines and looting–or is it Wall Street’s record profits?

One of those things are true…

You mean the beer summit?   haha.   While we’re making crap up though and putting words in to his mouth, I think its also important we prevent Latin America from getting access to automobiles, lest they then have the ability to just drive over the open border!

Yeah, Romney is becoming an inevitability more and more every day–and he hasn’t even had the major news spotlight in weeks.

Herman Cain isn’t the first, and won’t be the last US politician to be accused of gross sexual misconduct. Not breaking news, I know.. Well here is a full list of ALL the culprits, from Thomas Jefferson to Schwarzenneger: http://bit.ly/uwJULT

After reading this story, would any Cain fan like to take a moment and justify their belief that he should be president of the United States? That doesn’t mean avoiding the question by making invoking Obama, liberals, the mainstream media, Occupy Wall Street, my mother, or any other person, place or thing. I mean answer my question. 

Just tell me why I should vote for Herman Cain? 
Can anyone make a good case for him to be president?

Like Palin, they prop these folks up with some quick power-point or note cards, but of course, there is never any depth.

Most of the folks posting on here, I would imagine, are more informed about foreign affairs than Palin or the Pizza King.

Many of us love this stuff (politics, foreign affairs), and to see these A$$holes muddle through basic frontpage, newspaper headline stuff is just sad.

If you spend your life making money–without thinking about the wider world you live in–you should not be president.

Sorry, Cain, Palin, et al…

Shouldn’t you be posting over at ESPN, sport?

You’re right, TangledThorns. I was wrong about Herman Cain. 
I am now prepared to vote for Herman Cain to be president of the United States. 

“Are you sure he was CEO of a pizza company, he sounds like the delivery boy.”

Seriously, what’s the difference.

You don’t have to be told twice that agreements in the low five figures are a common way to dispose of such issues by risk averse organizations for you to have gotten the message.  From the perspective of the organization, winning such a case would likely cost much more than the payout.  From the perspective of the litigant, the monetary compensation received almost assuredly does not add up to the combined sum of court costs, lawyers fees, loss of income during the time of litigation and – most devestatingly – loss of any retirement package.

Yet it doesn’t seem to have penetrated; very likely because you don’t care about such pesky things as details, or truth.  In plainer terms, for much plainer people, this is not a sexual harrasement settlement, you f’ing moron.

This is the disposal of a nuisance lawsuit, and scumbag lefties who continue to perpetuate the narrative are just that.  Gutter dwelling scumbags shining mirrors up the skirts of passerbyers with the contention that women whom they catch wearing panties are somehow dirty tramps.

 You know  Cains a dolt but this whole neo-con thing about China is plain stupid as well. Our navy would sink their entire navy in 6 hours its a joke. We have had by far the most powerful Navy in the world for 60 years no one is even close. The old soviet empire had some decent capabilities but in reality couldn’t even touch us, We have 13 nuclear aircraft carriers capable of projecting power anywhere anytime anyplace in the world. Not to mention at least 300 other warships. The most any other country has is two aircraft carriers. Matter of fact I think our carrier fleet has more aircraft than most of the other worlds air forces. Actually I think we may have more carriers than the rest of the world combined. Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex and he was correct.

You’re way too stupid to realize it, but all you said in your insane rant (above) is that the woman received a settlement (one year’s pay) because Herman Cain sexually harassed her.

In most instances involving sexual harassment in the workplace, the victims receive NOTHING in terms of compensation. What usually happens is they give the pervert a warning and then fire him if he does it again.

I wonder how you got it so wrong. You must have poop for brains or something.

Lol! What, is he in school or something? Were supposed to give him a gold star everytime he gets something right and ignore when he gets something wrong?! Er, no. He’s a presidential candidate. He should be getting it all right; it shouldn’t be news when he finally gets something right like apparently you think! Unbelievable! Why do people continue to defend this obvious moron? He’s stupid, okay? Get rid of him if you want any credibility.

stalk much?

Didn’t obama give a gazzillion dollars to greece a while back? Howz that workin out?

Occupyers rush in for STD tests…LOL!

We analyzed Obama and he makes good sense - we analyzed Cain and he makes good Pizza!

Frances, you guys at Mediaite are so dumb and mostly childish sometimes, that I have to wonder what academic qualifications you have and your respective ages.

Is there any existing Nuclear Weapons Program that is not subject to further development? If China has a 50-Year Nuclear Program, does it mean the technology is 50 years old, or dont you think they would have developed their nuclear capabilities to meet the standards of 2011 in this 21st century and continue working on it? If China already has nuclear capability does that mean they cannot develop it further? How many scientific technologies do you know that has an end-point which cannot be researched and developed further?

Did you even bother listening to the context of Cain’s statement, or you just want to meet up with your daily quota of trivial matters imposed by Dan Abrams?

What does Romney have to do – he’s getting baked by Cain!

Yeah they are two different things like agreement and settlement everyone knows that!!!

The REALLY funny thing is the far left loons that inhabit this place claim Frances is a “right winger.”

It might be a good idea to brush up on modern China and 1964, as well.

In Bagger World the less knowledge you have the more they love you. Knowledge is so elite to them.

Its not about Herman Cain who is ignorant, moron and stupid jackass. he represents common Americans who fucking don’t have any idea whats the world looks like. Specially Republicans white KKK who still lives in  1960s and believes in slavery and  white power. Herman Cain is their  puppet and slave who speak for the person like Rush Limbaugh and Ann coulter and Laura Ingrahm…..

Before Obama is done China will own us, financially. Next, they will try to own us, militarily. Cain is dead on in his analysis.

There’s no right-winger on Mediaite, you should not judge by the labels, read what the put up here and make your judgement. I have been watching them here and I know the pattern by which the Mediaite writers/journalist operate.

On the contrary, my reading comprehension challenged lefty gutter dweller, you’re wrong – but whether you know it or not wouldn’t stop you from saying it anyway.  It’s clear there’s no use explaining directly to you, one who sees an apt description of events combined with an insulting characterization for your not being willing or able to admit such, and can’t counter other than by labeling it as insanity.  When instead, it’s justified derision of people like you.

I don’t normally deal with your limited sort, bereft of anything beyond base partisanship and invective, so I’ll speak over your head to those others who might read our exchange to confirm that no, there was no finding of sexual harassment   That’s your lie.  Should there have been one, obviously, the payout would’ve been much, much larger and Cain would’ve lost his position.  Instead, it was a severance agreement, as was described in the article.  Only capable of being understood, however, by those who know what words mean when they’re ordered one after the other in succession to make complete, thought expressing sentences.

Don’t know much about the military do ya?

Moron, there is no indication that there was ever a lawsuit. You made that up. And the severance agreement is a settlement for sexual harassment. Herman Cain sexually harassed the woman. That’s what this is about.

You have to remember that you are a Republican, and all Republicans are compulsive liars. If you rely on the things you say, you’re going to be misled.

I’m sorry to make you look like such a fool, but it’s not my fault. As a Republican you have been systematically trained to look like a fool.

Except that doesn’t work, either; North Korea is already a nuclear state, albeit an ineffectual one. Remember that they set off a nuke a few years ago. It was weaker than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, but it was still a nuke. So Mr. Cain is just ignorance. What is it about Republicans and their love of idolizing ignorance? Ignorance is not a trait to be admired; it’s one to find distressing.

They did. They found nothing and instead fabricated a bunch of BS (e.g. birth certificate, he’s a Muslim, etc.).

Yeah, pretty much.  What else can we say.  Let’s just hope it doesn’t come to that.

Luck goes to the prepared.

Romney makes it look easy because he is so skilled.  The other guys are rookies.  They need more seasoning.  They should thank Romney for the schooling he has given them.

Yeah the comic section, Wizard of Id, etc.

The reason Cain said he didn’t know what the “neoconservative movement” that AC spoke of was because there was no such movement (at least not recently.) The term was used somewhat during the late 70′s and 80′s, but fell into disuse during the 90′s and was resurrected by the left during Bush’s administration as a pejorative with no real, consistent meaning. The same goes for the silly “Bush Doctrine” label. It was a term used by the left to basically mean anything related for foreign policy that Bush did and the left didn’t like. Not keeping up with the left’s terms of derision for conservatives or their policies is hardly a valid complaint against a candidate.

Why are you even bothering.  The guy is not even remotely ready to be president.  He doesn’t even know China has nuclear weapons.  I knew that when I was 10 years old, maybe before that.  He’s so dumb that it’s dangerous.  I understand you think you’re a conservative but we cannot risk the nation on this fool.

You know, I came to this topic ready to believe the narrative; I generally don’t have a good impression of Cain’s worldliness.  But upon reading your post and re-watching the clip, you’re right.  He was speaking of nuclear capability in terms of China’s recent major expansion of their naval forces.

For those unaware, China recently relaunched the ex-Varyag, a conventional-powered carrier obtained from the Russians in 1998 and reworked for over a decade.  They’ve made a recent public commitment to expanding their blue-water navy and the next big step is a nuclear-powered carrier, expected to be constructed by 2020.

I wonder if Francis is aware of this development.  Maybe we should make fun of her.  Another thing we could do is to inform her, so that her opinion is not that of the good many who commented on this article – informed.

Yeah, why would a Republican presidential candidate know what a Neocon is? People’s expectations are too high.

Any patriotic American should release this information if he has it.  Cain could attack China, not realizing they have nuclear weapons and end the world.

Cain was talking about nuclear carriers China is developing.  The article was factually incorrect to ignore this.  Guess who’s misinformed now, as well as rather obviously playing a big fat stinking race card as he shows us how much so?

Here is what we will talking about tomorrow Rent Boy. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45125741/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TrDdx_KqmuI

Stop asserting facts and characterizations out of articles in newspapers that don’t contain either of them.  You don’t know how to do it.

Before Obama is done?  He’s only been in charge for about 5 minutes.  You can thank your buddy George Bush Jr. for that.  And his daddy.  And your pal Ronald Reagan.  

Yet China is developing nuclear carriers and if you care to re-watch the clip, you’ll see that’s the context in which he discusses China’s nuclear ambitions.

I don’t generally consider Cain a candidate sufficiently experience for the presidency, but Frances Martel’s interpretation of this clip is wrong, as is your dismissive characterization of him based on her ignorance.

Now you’re going to pretend that I’M the one who made up all those lies about the nuisance lawsuit, etc.? That was you.

As I tried to explain, you are a compulsive liar. If you rely on the things you say, you are going to be misled. Try to remember.

Let’s just see what the citizens of our 57 states have to say !

China is already bullying neighboring states (Japan, Philipeans, Vietnam, Taiwan) with fishing trawlers merely in anticipation of obtaining a blue water navy.  Yet we aren’t going toe to toe with them blockading the South China Sea.  Why does you mind immediately go to the point of fact that we can easily sink their navy?  Armed combat is not where anyone wants to go; rather, we should have in mind continued friendly relations with states adjoining China’s ambitions.  But to dismiss them because their capability is less than ours is missing the point.  They don’t seek to match our capabilities.  They seek to exert their power.

Well, it’s not like we’re accusing him of hating white people, depicting him as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose, or accusing him of being foreign-born and not a real American.
Maybe if Republicans would quit doing those things (or at the least, denounce those who do), they wouldn’t get called racist.

Because Obama at least understands the world beyond a fifth grade level, unlike Herb. 

I will concede that to Cain – I rather like Godfather’s Pizza. 

and it was fairly obvious that he was referring to 57 caucuses and primaries.
they’ve been sadly trying non-stop to get that one to catch on for 3 years and somehow ‘prove’ Obama is Palin’s equal, but it aint working.

and they’re going to use movable type to further spread the word of Mao after that!

give him a day. he’ll rememberize it differently tomorrow.

Maybe Gary Johnson will be last man standing after all the others implode.
At this rate, they’ll begging McCain to run again with Bob Dole as his Veep pick.

Birthers and moon landing deniers are cut from the same cloth, after all.

-yawn-

KoreanTrevor, quoting the NYT article: “victim(s)” – quote non-existent; false statement.
KoreanTrevor, quoting the NYT article: “Herman Cain sexually harassed her” – quote non-existent; false statement.
KoreanTrevor, quoting the NYT article: “severance agreement was a settlement for sexual harassment” – quote non-existent; false statement.

One can understand that there was an allegation of sexual harassment, and that there was an eventual agreement reached by both parties to dispose of the matter.  Such has been reported previous to this article.  One CANNOT infer what you do; that these points of fact are inherently linked.  Thus, in quoting the NYT to support your statements, you lie.

Paleoconservative’s characterization of this as a nuisance suit – fair.

…and therefore proving my point that since you can’t make a case for Herman Cain, you just make fun of Obama. 

I never quoted anything. You made up those quotations because you are a compulsive liar.

Please try to remember that you are a Republican, and all Republicans are compulsive liars.

INSANE

If you watched the clip you can hear Cain was referring to nuclear carriers being developed by China, nothing else. So I messaged the ‘journalist’ that wrote this article to have her correct it. It’s pretty obvious she copy & pasted the article from the other site. We expect higher standards from Mediaite, agreed?

It’s not about “sides.” This isn’t the Superbowl. We are deciding who will be the Commander in Chief of the deadliest military in the world. A major dynamic of the Cold War was a nuclear-capable China. This led to proxy wars like The Korean War, The Vietnam War and Afghanistan, where President Reagan funded the Taliban “Freedom Fighters” at the behest of the Neoconservative advisors who had his ears. [Neoconservatism is school of political thought wherein democracy should be spread by any means necessary - no, it has never gone away, and was very prominent in leading to the Iraq War based on incorrect "intelligence"]

I want the President to know the nuclear status of a country when he receives that 3am call about an international incident and needs to decide upon a response.

Thanks vbscript for this hour’s lesson in right wing revisionism. Well done!

I believe the funniest part of the interview is that Herb thinks that the USA can “outgrow China” economically. Sorry pal, but that boat sailed in the ’80s. This guy is the republican’s best hope to beat Obama? Maybe he should crack a few books, because the media has his number, and his complete ignorance is showing. Of course, saying he’s the best candidate, is like saying he’s the least smelly pile of horse manure down on the farm, it doesn’t mean much. If by chance, America became completely illiterate and put him in office, it would just hasten China’s ascent to become full owners of the US, something that seems more likely every day. I would love to hear his economic re-invention ideas, though…probably something involving pizza, since that’s all he knows anything about?

A typical rightie response to an intelligent question…deflect , deflect…lame

According to Obama America has 57 states.

The clip has been doctored to present Cain in the worst way.  Two weeks ago the world learned China is developing and building NUCLEAR AIRCRAFT CARRIERS – something they have never done before.

Cain is clearly talking about the NUCLEAR AIRCRAFT CARRIERS China is after.

Shame on the left, shame on Mediaite.

develop

to expand or enlarge
to aid in the growth of
to improve the quality of; refine
to cause to become more comples or intricate; add detail and fullness to; elaborate
to convert or transform

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/develop

Look at this:

Nuclear powers plan weapons spending spree, report finds
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/30/nuclear-powers-weapons-spending-report

*China is rapidly building up its medium and long range “road mobile” missile arsonel equipped with multiple warheads.  Up to five submarines are under construction capable of launching 30-60 sea launched ballistic missiles, which could provide a continuous at-sea capability

“building up”…..or, “developing”

Oh, my, whatever happened to that……reset button?

For several countries, including Russia, Pakistan, Israel, and France, nuclear weapons are being assigned roles that go well beyond deterence, says the report.  In Russia and Pakistan, it warns, nuclear weapons are assigned “war fighting roles in military planning.”

Then, the article mentions:

“….India’s programmes are driven by fear of China and Pakistan

How interesting, yes? 

Now, a seasoned journo, Judy Woodruff, who did not offer a follow up question, may have understood exactly what Cain meant, or she recognized a good sound bite for the gullible to chew on.

No he wasn’t.  Stop covering for him you fool.

HAHAHAHA……..  Once again, the morons are blaming the left, the leftist media, the lamestream media, et al, for Cain’s latest blunder.  This makes me smile.  These conservatives who protect Cain’s inability to grasp basic foreign & domestic policy, think they are protecting ‘conservatism’ – when all they are doing is protecting the flavor of the week – a man who makes it up as he goes along. 

Again, nothing makes me happier when conservatives cry about the ‘leftist media’.   :)

Actually just listened to the clip posted here and heard no reference at all to “nuclear carriers”, just “nuclear capability”…

Palin part II

In fairness, he thought Woodruff was talking about Ubeki-beki-beki-stan-stan. 

You’re right, only a moron would. It’s Norbit, after all. 

Rationalize it whatever way you want. This is an unserious candidate with a poor grasp of details. (Yesterday’s follies and his changing story should tell you as much.) Right now you’re stuck with a frontrunner who has previously signaled his ignorance about international affairs, his loose grip of facts and his willingness to alter reality to fit his narrative. Deal with it. 

Get real. 

Except Palin would have been eviscerated by the media.  For some reason Cain is getting a free pass thus far.  Anyway, Romney is loving this either way.

“Obama thinks we have 57 states.”

Don’t you believe in American exceptionalism? 

Get an education.

It’s clear at the 1:14 mark.

Cain is so much more entertaining than Palin. At least doesn’t play the trope of the perpetual victim. He’s just completely oblivious to the idiotic things he says.

You are so right. I remember when I first joined the GOP that it was a party that actually used to attract — and revere — smart, visionary people who could wrap their brains around complexity and form coherent sentences. Now, the more uninformed you sound, the better your chances of connecting with “the base.” If it wasn’t so sad it would be laughable.

Why do you hate America?

Unfortunately, I think this could have the opposite effect. The base could very well rally around someone they assume is being persecuted by that big, bad, awful libruhl media. 

Let’s see what Michelle says!

Don’t overlook Santorum! If you want to learn more, just google him. (Oh, wait…)

You’re fooling yourself. There’s nothing Cain has said previously that indicates a deep understanding of foreign affairs or an ability to grasp complexity. 

Palin wasn’t “eviscerated” by the media. She simply imploded when the cameras were pointed her way.

Yup, and that was more than clear.

Just more of the high tech lynching going on.  Anything to protect the One, the campaigner in chief…mediaite is right there.

No Frances, Herman is NOT stupid….even though you on your side want to diminish this good black man.  He was referring to the nuke sumbarine issue and perhaps you should take a lesson from your colleague Tommy and give the man the benefit of the doubt.  I know you folks here always give the benefit of the doubt to the democrat; perhaps you should try some balance.

Translation: “We know that Cain is dim, but we like him that way. Please play along with our tortured interpretation of his comments, even though he’s said nothing during the campaign to indicate that he has any depth or nuance.”

What’s a nuke sumbarine?

Chris Wallace on FoxNews Sunday asked Cain about the Palestinian right of return, and Cain, with a “deer in the headlights” look, stared at Wallace and asked (twice) “Right of return?  Right of return?.”
In other words, the Pizza Man trying to sell his book didn’t even know about (and he didn’t even look like he was pretending not to know about) a pretty obvious issue, something that a reasonably bright high school kid would be aware of.

A Repug more ignorant than the Grifter from Alaska?  Dumber than Perry?  More misinformed than Shrub?Circle the wagon around Cain!!!  Hes ready to be or Puppet in Chief!

For goodness sake, military spending has gone up under Obama!!!!!

hahahahahaha!!!! What is tragic, is how Republicans defend this unprepared clown by introducing race: he is never a “good man”, he is “this good black man”. Ann Coulter claims, “our blacks are better than their blacks.”

As many have noted, Mr. Cain performs a form of Minstrel Show for white conservatives. He beclowns himself, he assures white people that white people are the victims of racism, and he breaks out into Spirituals and Show Tunes.

Give Mr. Bojangles his Cain, and he will shuck and jive and tell us everything is copacetic,

My my, shucky ducky!

You know what — go ahead and nominate him if you think he’s such a genius. 

Few things would make Team Obama happier.

people like this scare me, I hope that he never has any real power

He doesn’t know what NEOCONSERVATISM is. You think that he would know WORLD history if he doesn’t even know the history of the PARTY HE’S RUNNING under?

HILARIOUS

CAIN 2012!!!!!!

Ya know Tina I didn’t think he was stupid either but he’s working pretty hard to prove he is. If he can’t handle a little ass grab scandal what’s he gonna do at 3:00am?

The New York Times is now reporting that one of Cain’s victims was paid a settlement. . .

I never quoted anything. You made up those quotes because you are a compulsive liar.

This thread was begun with you relaying facts from the NYT article that were not there.  This is not about your characterizations, or mine.  It’s not even about a core understanding of presumption of innocence all decent, fair-minded people share in this country (present company excepted), this is about you not being able to get it right and being of such small mind as to not moderate after being shown to have gotten it wrong.

Tactically, I’m aware you’re trying to follow Alinskyite rule #5 with what you believe are clever retorts, but the squirm quite evident in your mindless repetition of them juxtaposed with false nature of your assertions belies your idiocy.  You should just stick to “poopiehead,” as with your first response or confine your interactions in regards to your obtuse misinterpretations to pats on the back through the words of another prog.

You’re reduced now just typing words and hoping those sympathetic to your politics don’t notice how far down your legs are your pants; further positive assertions at odds to what you’ve written not more than a pagescroll away will only be viewed as efforts to troll.

Yeah, I assume you’re right, but this misspeaking thing can cause problems..

Why would China want to own us militarily?  They are collecting billions from us in debt payment annually.  They are harvesting our technology and advancing it much quicker than we are capable of doing.  THe best scenario for China is to maintain a happy, healthy, and greedy USA.

OK, I accuse Obama. I accuse you too. There. Now defend yourself.

Oh you mean “all of them”?

Yeah…they probably speak Austrian too.

Only in the 57 states.

As concerned as you are about Cain’s historical knowledge base, you seem woefully uninformed to be able to make such a determination.  China wasn’t armed with nuclear weapons during the Korean War, was not a major player in Vietnam, another against whom we fought a “proxy war” (we fought hand to hand in Korea against Chinese PLA, BTW) and didn’t play a role at all in Afghanistan; a major mountain range, the Hindu Kush, stands where their two countries share a small border through which no roads pass.  Further, Regan, who wasn’t a neoconservative, backed the Mujahideen of Afghan (and not the Taliban, which didn’t assume power in the country until 7 years after the war ended, having emerged as a major player only a few years previous to their ascendency) during the Soviet Invasion – not at the behest of neoconservatives but in the interest of the country; it was a policy embraced by nearly everyone in and out of power.  I’m well aware what neoconservatism is, being a libertarian inclined paleo-consservative and against their influences, but it ain’t a “school of political thought wherein capitalist-based democracy should be spread by any means necessary.” – such could only have been written by the Information Ministry of Saddam’s Iraq of some similar enemy of the US with a very shallow understanding of our domestic politics.

With this aside, Cain was not discussing what the author of the article, Frances Martel, thought he was discussing.  He was speaking in context to China’s development of nuclear carriers and her assumption was that he was unaware of basic facts. But that’s what happens when people who aren’t versed in military matters make assumptions in op-ed pieces of what others know. They make asses of themselves.

And in any case, such views one might have of Cain’s preparedness or disagreements on policy one would assume to be unrelated to charges of sexual misconduct.  Yet it was in context of my observations on this last which prompted your general objections.  Just goes to show how some people’s mind woks.  Folk from “the other side,” that is.

The Chinese are laughing too, all the way to the bank. You should stop worrying so much about their military and worry more about how much money you owe them and how many of your jobs they’re taking. Guffaw.

Oh, rich.  I contacted Mediaite to inform them of a manifestly obvious interpretation of this clip that was ignored by the author – that Herman Cain was speaking to China’s naval program and their desire to construct nuclear-powered aircraft-carriers could very likely have been the context in his discussion of their “nuclear capability.”  But rather than admit their characterization in light of these facts was fundamentally flawed, rather than amend the article to include this angle, rather than pull it altogether and admit they jumped the gun; they simply change the title and re-categorized it as an opinion piece.

This is no longer a straight news story with a critical flaw (and a decidedly derisive title that read “Herman Cain Worried About China ‘Develop[ing] Nuclear Capability,’ Despite 50-Year Nuclear Program”); With such a modest alteration, it’s now a grossly unfair piece of slander.

“Those silly house blacks conservatives like don’t know nothin’”

I hear the Russians might be putting a man in space.  – Herman Cain.

There actually ARE 57 US states and territories and possessions which have DEM primaries.  Ever heard of Puerto Rico or Guam.

Neo Conservative or if in Europe “Neo Liberal”  A political and economical philosophy that espouses free markets and deregulaton as well as privatization (Friedmanism)  with an emphasis on American hegemony “Pax Americana” built on perpetual war and world dominance of the USA by force.  Originally brought about by the philosophy of Leo Strauss from the University of Chicago.

VBScript, the neoconservative movenment is still very much alive and was at its peak during the GWBush administration.  All you have to do is google “Prospect for a New American Century” their think tank in Washington or read their position paper published in 2000 called “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”
The Bush doctrine IS the doctrine of pre-emptive war.  It is now in the history books.  Your denying doesnt make it go away.  In Fact the RIGHT WING commentator Krauthammer was the first to use the term

Cain was talking about China’s development of nuclear carriers, not nuclear weapons. But I can see where you might’ve made your mistake.  This article, lacking insight, was flawed in its interpretation, and Mediaite, being informed of this, has had to change the title and alter its status from news to opinion, leaving Frances Martel to eat her words.

That doesn’t mean you have to swallow them as well, along with the assumptions and ignorance what went into them.

Im beginning to wonder just how he attained those degrees seeing as just how ignorant he is on so many other topics.  Maybe he could pass tests that he studied for 40 years ago but has just not concerned himself with anything else going on in the world since his college days.  He seems like two very different individuals in the same skin.  At least Palin NEVER seemed to have a clue.  He must have at one time in his life.

Wow, Cain, if you’re going to pick a country to know nothing, try somewhere else.  How about sticking to ignorance of somewhere relatively irrelevant like Bhutan?

He really needs to brush up on at least China, the Middle East, and the Americas.  Yikes.

 Very good points, sir. I’m quite aware of the realities of these various wars that have been draining our treasury for decades. It was a mistake to conflate the overarching Domino Theory and the ideological War on Communism with more specific “proxy wars” with China alone for the sake of brevity.

I am also aware of my oversimplification of Neoconservatism. I only included that because vbscript2′s comment up above asserting that there is “no such movement,” and suggesting that it’s merely a pejorative used by one “side.” This was not directed at you, and I’m pleased to hear you’re knowledgeable about (and against) their insidious effort to keep the US in a constant state of war. This is Cain’s foreign policy team http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/10/26/raising_cain_inside_herman_cain_s_new_foreign_policy_team I’m not going to waste my time investigating them unless Cain gets the nomination, but ties to Rumsfeld did raise an eyebrow.

I too am against character assassination attempts. I could care less about Cain’s bedroom tactics, or Clinton’s or Weiner’s or any other politician’s unless they expose hypocrisy like Phil Hinkle or Larry Craig – because the culture of politicians who pass laws they don’t feel apply to them is one of the core problems of this country. None of the politicians who are against government health care have turned down their own excellent government health care for example.

The biggest problem with our country right now, however, is this culture of Politics as Competitive Sport, and that’s what spurred me to reply. When Obama rejected Free Market principles by agreeing to NOT negotiate medicare drug prices, where was the outcry from Team GOP or its fans? That’s something both “sides” could have agreed on. Over the next few months individual elements of the dead Jobs Bill will come before Congress. Even the various conservative proposals will be rejected along purely party lines because our reps are not interested in fixing problems, they are interested only in winning, and we, the fans continue to cheer them on regardless of the suffering it is causing.

Agreed 100%!!

 And the fact that they seek to exert their power is bad in what way? They are a country of more than 1 billion people with a huge economic growth currently and more to come. How could we not expect them to exert their power? This is what I don’t get. We exert our power everywhere all the time, but get nervous when others might want to do the same.

Whatever…Mr. apologist. Spin..spin..spin..away!

Who did I sexually harass? Time..place etc. Thanks for playing…dumb dumb.

That’s your deal, if you wish to continue in it.  I complained about the article’s assertions, providing context the author had not realized, and it was changed.  That should tell you something.

To be fair, he invented the country of Beki-beki-beki-bekistan. 

To be sure, what can be so wrong about a communist state exerting their power in the world against the interest of friendly, allied states?  It’s all the same, right?

This is what’s wrong with people who don’t know their world.

Redistribute your own largess with the Chinese; don’t insist it of those others who prefer our continued presence to keep them free.

Hermie’s also a bit worried whether or not we can beat the Soviets.

OMG let him get the nomination. Ppl will wake up then and who will they have to vote for;)?

Like I said…you’re just doing what you know best for your candidate. It’s understandable…but it’s still spin.

Clearly when he said they were developing nuclear capabilites he was talking about developing them further than the primitive capabilities they have now.  This is reinforced when he made reference to the nuclear aircraft carriers.  Funny how libtards jump all over conservative slip of the toungues but forget that obama is a muslim believer and we have 57 states.

Only Cain isn’t my candidate.  He’s not prepared to be president, in my estimation.  I’m just doing what’s fair, because it’s the right thing to do.  I’m partisan, but not solely animated by that .  And because I’m sick of the leftist media establishment thinking they can tear down any candidate who isn’t Obama and at the same time refuse to vet him or report his monumental failings.

You know please show proof Obama is a muslim then….. Yup can’t do it. Even if you can I wouldn’t care. There’s a big difference between a MUSLIM and  TERRORIST. Twits….

Pure BS as to Cain not knowing China having nuclear bombs.  He was talking about China now having a  conventional fuel oil powered aircraft carrier and they were wanting to make it and future carriers nuclear powered capable like the US has.

You leftist Obamabots have never woke up to the idiot in chief you voted for.

Are you better off today than you were four trillion Obama dollars ago?  Sound of crickets chirping.

I’ll let vbscript2 fight his own battles over neioconservatisms existence.

It’s hard to find names out of recent past and not find some crossover from previous administrations.  The field of intellectual diversity called upon to serve in advisory roles is rather small.  Each side has their pool of talent that rotate in and out as different administrations come and go.  So I’m not necessarily put off by the existence of names which served in the Bush administration (a preponderance of military types, it seems, in Cain’s case; undersecretaries are backing a different horse?).  Rumsfeld, for instance, served in every administration since Nixon but wasn’t one calling shots until the tail end of his career. Far more important are who gets the critical slots and what the pecking order is; and the makeup of the one who would lead.

As to the causality of your response to me, I take it our solutions would be quite different; as are our takes on where the problem lies.  I’m far less bothered by the competitive, adversarial nature of our politics than are you (though intellectual inconsistencies arising as casualties of petty political gains bothers me as much as the next guy); I see the game as two (and sometimes one) groups of special interests sparring over access to the largess our government doles out or wields controls over.  The solution I’d implement, and reason that I support movements such as the tea party, would be to attack the basic size of government.  Structurally, should the government control far less than it currently does that impetus which compels special interests to corrupt the process in their favor becomes that much less; such that the American middle class can start making the system work for them once again.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Arnt nuclear carriers  nuclear weapons?

Ok, Mr. smart guy.  Score one for facetiousness.  But no, reactors aren’t weapons.

RON PAUL 2012 !!!

I suspect Cain’s explanation will be that China doesn’t have long range missiles to deliver nuclear weapons. I’m sure he doesn’t know China recently put a man in space, and I don’t mean by paying Russia for the taxi service.

How has China maintained a 10% growth rate over two decades? Government investment in everything and having a super large population. How do we catch up to that? Maybe by telling families to have more children (don’t laugh, some ultra-right wing nuts have suggested that one) or by begging more people to cross our borders and take on super low wage jobs.

Of course, the real reason China has grown so much is China started with nothing as it came out of communism and embraced the capitalist system. China is bound to slow down to the growth rate of the rest of the world once it has gotten its infrastructure up to what it should have been all along.

So, China’s solution has been more free market AND lots and lots of government stimulus. When done right, stimulus pays for itself and then some.

You are making the same mistake Cain did. China’s nuclear capability is not primitive. China has the weapons and the technology to deliver them. The difference between China and Russia (in the past) or North Korea (wanting to take over South Korea) is that China is not out to conquer the world.
The one place China really, really wants to control is Taiwan, “the runaway province.” The rest of the world is a good place for China to do business, and China is winning the economic war–yes, by cheating here and there.
Why blow something up with a nuclear weapon when you can buy it intact?

But he knows where becky-becky-beckystan is, and nobody else does. That has got to be worth something.

Your knowledge of China’s military ability and intentions is at least as bad as Cains. “The world” knew about China’s aircraft carrier desires many years ago. Fox must have reported it two weeks ago since that seems to be your source of news.

More ignorance about China. 愚蠢奴人。

I wonder if he knows that who Hu Jintao is? (General Secretary of the Communist Party of China) If they would have asked him it would have been hilarious not to know the top dog over there.

Or, Buddy Roemer, check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV_Vk9C6EWQ

Cain’s answer: Who who? Who is who?

Right on! American companies our source just about anything to China. American investors pour money into China daily. 350 million goes to China 69 million comes back and it is called “free traide”. I could go on all day. But there is a sliver of hope. At least there is one GOP candidate that gets it… Buddy Roemer.    

A tiny sliver, indeed. Roemer is practically invisible, and that is too bad.

Is that what’s in your brain cage? Crickets chirping?

I suspect Cain’s explanation would be to have you actually watch the tape instead of listening to what others have to say about it and see him complete the sentence in which he says China is developing nuclear capability in attempting to match our fleet of super-carriers.

The one place China really, really wants to control is Taiwan

Bullshit.

, “the runaway province.”

Horseshit.

The rest of the world is a good place for China to do business

Cow flop.

I did watch the tape. Cain said develop nuclear capability AND develop aircraft carriers as two separate issues.
However, instead of being picky about it, I am going to shock you and agree with Cain’s initial approach that our concern about China should be entirely based on the economic competition, not the danger of military conflict.
This fear of China as potentially becoming expansionist through military might is Cold War thinking at a time when we have moved beyond those things. Maybe that is because nuclear weapons potential has taught us ALL that war of conquest is useless, or maybe we (including China) just suddenly wised up and discovered that wars win nothing. Shrewd business wins everything by being win-win.

If you knew anything about Chinese history, you would know that the people of China have suffered far more from wars of all kinds than we have, and any buildup they are doing is seen as defensive, just as Cain says we must maintain our defenses. China is just like any other country in its desire to be able to defend itself and to show some military muscle even though it hopes never to use it.

If you want to discuss “natural enemies,” know that Russia, Japan, and Korea have always been the natural enemies of China. Neighbors fight neighbors, as France and Germany proved during the last century. Americans fight anybody who says “communist.”

Most socking of all, I admit that Meidiaite is getting more and more picky about these things in an attempt to attack conservatives even when they don’t deserve it. The bias is becoming more clear to me every day.

Still, there are times when the concerns are real, and I will continue to participate in these discussions.

I see scatology is your area of expertise. China is not.

The threat of China’s expansionism is no longer a fear; they’re doing it with fishing boats merely in anticipation of having a blue-water navy through which they can dominate a portion of the west pacific (as substantiated in the links provided in the post a couple above). They’re contesting small islands in waters of foreign nations or in open waters with contested claims because, for one, lying underneath are oil reserves.

That aside, few are looking into the future and seeing outright state on state aggression; Cain isn’t, nor am I.  Knowing much of Chinese character and history, they’re not inclined towards such obviousness.  At least as long as there remains the existential threat of concerted opposition.  But they’re not nearly as afraid of conventional conflict as you suppose, not having learned lessons from history that have never been taught (such as to say wars – for conquest or otherwise – don’t solve anything).  Nor will an overabundance of males in their society owing to their one-child policy have moderating influences (not to say that, because they’ll have to find a place for their men, it’ll inevitably lead to militarism and war).  Instead, they’ll work the edges where little or no resistance is to be found (or can be made through economic coercion to go away).

Their desire for carriers and a blue-water navy, the correct contextual subject of Cain’s quote, is case in point.  The point isn’t that we have more stuff and can easily sink ‘em.  It’s that where their carriers can go our policy and that of our allies will no longer dominate.  Without conflict, for which risk fleets (as China is building) are designed to ensure, they’ll wind up pushing around neighboring states and snapping them in line to their growing sphere; not of land conquests, but socioeconomic ones; and if that means the installation of communist or allied leadership, no matter if its by hook or through crook, then yes, that’s a problem for us as communism is incompatible with America and its values.

As Cain does make clear, the proper field on which to compete is on the field of economics; but also with a regard to maintaining our military capability.  China doesn’t want war.  Nobody wants war.  But everyone pursues their interests and when those conflict, war becomes a possibility.

A non-response to the demonstration of Chinese adventurism illustrated in the provided links.  Chinese propaganda doesn’t suit even the American left; why disseminate it?

I am not hovering on this site. I did not see the more detailed argument that you presented, apparently at the same time you posted the three references to excrement. I will turn to that now.

I and others often embed links within text.  You’re missing it if you’re just writing responses externally. You don’t have to hover, just bring up a tab by clicking the link provided in the e-mail.

Contesting small islands. Yes. Japan, China, and Vietnam have historical claims to those islands, and have been contesting them, mostly without warfare, for hundreds of years. The area is called the South China Sea for a reason. (I took a tour that included one of those islands with a military base on it that I was not supposed to see. I spent one night under “house arrest” at the island’s hotel. So did an “overseas Chinese” from Australia.)

Fishing boats everywhere? Look at any nation with commercial fishing vessels, including the United States. They have fishing boats everywhere that waters can not be claimed and in many places where they can be claimed because of treaties. Can they be used for intelligence purposes? Of course!

Lessons they have not been taught? The Chinese have been occupied by France, Germany, and Britain in a big way, and only in a small way by the US prior to 1900. They were at civil war from the 1920s to 1949 and brutally occupied by Japan from the mid-1930s to the end of WW II. Millions died of war and starvation. That did not happen to us and we tend to be more adventurous because of it. Even the Chinese culture values stability over all else, and that includes democracy.

Meanwhile, they are doing fine by economic “coercion.” The real reason oil prices are so high these days is because the Chinese are buying as much of it as we are internationally and that increases demand. The simple economics follow. The Japanese did not pay other countries for oil prior to WW II, they took it by conquest. We and other Westerners put an economic blockade on Japan for doing that, and that directly lead to our involvement in WW II. It is the reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on us within 24 hours.

Yes. There are far more young men than women in China. The ratio is about 120 men to 100 women. It is mostly because of the one child policy, but also because boys were valued as babies but girls were not. That is changing!

More culture. Leaders in every culture are expected to talk tough, and the Chinese are no different about their leaders. Almost every country believes in a strong defense, so why shouldn’t China?

Who else has aircraft carriers? The UK, France, and a few other Western powers. Why did Russia sell or scrap the ones it had? No access to the Atlantic and not much access to the Pacific. Ports freeze over in winter except for the Black Sea, and that is covered by treaties and the choke point of the Bosporus Strait.

Your fear of communism as a viable ideology that may someday dominate the world or even 1% of it only shows that your mind is trapped in the 1950s. You seem to lack confidence in capitalism and democracy.

(Yes. That last bit was a twist of the knife and a punch in the kidney. Not fair, but it is my opinion.)

Yes. I checked your link.
The non-nuclear-powered carrier is reported to be a revised version of Ukraine’s Varyag, which China purchased in 1998. A shipyard in Dalian is in charge of its design and construction. After the new carrier is completed, Varyag will be used for military training only. The non-nuclear-powered carrier is reported to be a revised version of Ukraine’s Varyag, which China purchased in 1998. A shipyard in Dalian is in charge of its design and construction. After the new carrier is completed, Varyag will be used for military training only.

I saw the Varyag in the port in Dalian. I mean I personally saw it from a hotel room in Dalian. That was in 2003, I believe. The deck was empty and there was no activity on it. I saw posters displaying the future nuclear powered aircraft carrier in a pedestrian underpass in Guangzhou in about 2005. None of this is news to me.

I also saw a US aircraft carrier anchored just outside of the port in Hong Kong and a US destroyer anchored at the port in Hong Kong. How’s that for thumbing your nose at Communist China, who ALLOWED that to happen?

Why in the world would anyone think China doesn’t want to have the same kind of “reach” its most obvious competitor has, not for war, but for show? Why should any of us expect China to let itself be upstaged in any field of endeavor, especially aircraft carriers that might visit any port?

I see this as exactly the same as the folks who claim the Second Amendment right to own a firearm, especially a pistol that could be used to shoot a politician, but they don’t ever intend to do that. They want to be able to shoot back when necessary. And, I bet 99% of average citizen pistol owners never have to use them.

I shouldn’t expect that China wouldn’t try to start projecting their power.  Similarly, their desire to strive for a point where they’re “not upstaged” in endeavors they undertake.  Only as an American, where those expressions of Chinese power conflicts with the interests of my own sphere I’d rather see them confounded.  I don’t view the world as one in which we should redistribute unmolested autonomy to anyone who wishes for it.  Some of those folks don’t wish us a good day.  China?  Existentially, no, not a clear and present danger to our existence.  Few wish them ill will.  China is a world power – always has been – and we live in the world with her.  But it very well could aspire to that one day.  And so we oughtn’t ignore their bullying states we consider our friends.

Ports of call are no big deal.  We’ve hosted such in our own ports without it being seen as ominous developments; I don’t think they lose face over such a thing.  But then that’s not the long term plan – to have fun flying planes and visiting strange, new places.  China, with a few exceptional eras, historically hasn’t been a big sea power.  They’re thinking bigger than an old culture has in a long, long time.

Of course, South China Sea is only the English appellation for it, for it being the prime destination of late middle ages colonial trade.  The counties what border it all refer to it in terms of their own culture and language.  Getting out of the history lessons…

Russia got out of the game of carriers because the rationality for them disappeared with the evaporation of their client states.  Their push for greater sea access, being a national priority since Peter the Great, had already waned with their inability to affect major land acquisitions; only occasioned by the post WWII division of spoils, cold war and security council (and MAD); at the moment and into the future mainly by their low birth rate.  They’ve not the vitality to conquer Poland, for one.  So for now they’re stuck with what they have – and have been for some time.

What led to their carrier development, though, was more status and global geopolitics than immediate, local need; the hope of one day being able to park one off Angola (or whatever; top of the head postulated example) and so prevent the Americans from slapping the state should it interfere with American interests.  Iraq, notably, was at one time one such state.

As to lessons that have not been taught.  Since those lessons you presume were effective occurred, there’s been numerous attempts to gain by conquest.  It’s not a thing that’s been stamped out; only that in the current environment, it’s not advisable or practical on the large scale.  And such lessons are always impermanent anyway; looking to history, man’s conflicts come in cycles (critical worldview break here); what one generation did to cause chaos and disaster in their society doesn’t preclude a succeeding one from doing the exact same thing.  Not that its exclusive to military matters, as when (If I remember correctly, you’re one to agree) hard socialism is offered again and again as the solution to society’s ills.  I don’t consider it viable or inevitable (only its continued failure) or will dominate; just that it’ll ever resurface.  As to the continued viability of capitalism and democracy, I’m a huge fan; but knowing history, realize it’s not a permanent, end state of man’s institutions; especially if they become taken for granted.

How this pertains to China; as you probably know, they have a far longer view of continual history that we Americans do.  What were those interruptions to them but a 100+ year window?  Tumultuous, to be sure, but they remain, and came out of it in good condition.

To how the knife is wielded.  If to say my mind is trapped in the 50s of the 20th century should be taken as an insult then surely it insults more that of the average communist (denizens not only of some of our more indoctrinated college campuses and unions but flirted with by a good many shaky states) who is ensnared by the empty words and ill considered ideas of a similar decade from the century preceding it.

We’re rather far afield from the original topic now.

We are now far afield from your original potty-mouth answers.

You did not comment on my assertion that China’s natural enemies are its immediate neighbors.
 
Did you know just how bad relations between China and Russia were in the
1960s? During that time, China directed all of its military efforts to
defense against an expected attack from Russia. I know that anyone with
even a smattering of knowledge of China’s weapons at that time and since
knows they looked exactly like the Russian tanks, planes, etc, but
those were Chinese copies. The point is that
communism was never a monolithic brotherhood of like minded people. It always was just another excuse to be a dictator. (Not what Marx intended, but the reality of it.)
 
We have had a back and forth relationship with China, going as far back as us not demanding major concessions from China when the French, British, and Germans did, and we must never forget Japan.
We fought with the Chinese Nationalists during WW II. That is remembered. It is also remembered that the Nationalists were more interested in fighting the communists than in fighting the Japanese.
It was a personal issue between Mao Tse Dung and Chang Kai Sheck (Our pronunciation of the names)
from before the Japanese invasion.

They fought against us during the Korean (undeclared) war, but in the political game of the time the Chinese soldiers were “volunteers” who were not officially Chinese Army, so there was no official fighting between the US and China. MacArthur wanted to nuke China, but Truman said no, and had to fire MacArthur for insubordination because MacArthur wouldn’t stop demanding it. China remembers that, too.  
As I noted elsewhere, the serious issue between us and China is that we continue to sell warships and fighter planes to Taiwan. In the late 1950s, Mao begged Stalin to help him take back Taiwan, which would require fighting the United States at sea and then in Korea, but Stalin refused and Mao steamed but could do nothing. We had sent AIRCRAFT CARRIERS and other ships BETWEEN China and Taiwan.
Yes. WE stuck our AIRCRAFT CARRIERS in their face, and you know Chinese hate to lose face!
Again I say that you support our citizens carrying concealed handguns, so how can you refuse to understand that an aircraft carrier is just a big nation’s equivalent of a hand gun for personal protection?

Recently, China got Hong Kong back from Britain, PEACEFULLY. China got Macao back from Portugal, PEACEFULLY. China wisely did not force either Hong Kong of Macao to change their capitalist systems, and Macao even got to keep its casinos.
There was some demand for more democracy in Hong Kong. They didn’t like the administrator that Beijing sent to run the place, but it might surprise you to learn that there wasn’t much democracy there under British rule. It really was British RULE right up till the end. If anything, democracy has increased in Hong Kong since the Brits left.
Capitalism has thrived under dictatorships as well as under democracies, and China is well aware of that. China has bought ore mines in Africa and tried to buy them in Australia. China imports oil from far away places, like Africa and Venezuela, but Russia does not. Russia has few exports that travel by sea and might need naval protection.
This is important military strategy that you apparently are not aware of: Russia’s answer to our AIRCRAFT CARRIERS was to patrol the seas with long range bombers that could launch long range anti-ship missiles. How long was the missile range? Well over 100 miles. China now has that capability, too.
The battle ship was made obsolete during WW II. The aircraft carrier is no longer critical for naval battles. It is a “portable” airfield that supports air and ground attacks. Missiles take care of other ships.

I finish with my statement that communism is dead as a national and an international goal for all practical purposes. It never was pure as Marx intended it and it never could be. Dictatorship is another matter, but it won’t happen in the USA, and it won’t happen because we are invaded by anybody, especially the Chinese.

That headline should read…”Cain reveals he is unaware”

Funny how some of you act like expects on Chinese foreign policy and claim you know every things about China having nuclear weapons. Yet you don’t think Cain knows they have nuclear weapons.  It was obvious that his statement is China is trying to proliferate their military capabilities to match the US!  Nuclear included!

Very intelligent statement Jackass….You and Cain obviously attended the same “skool of foran polacy”

Nice try pale face…You and jackass should mary and have children.  We need more dish washers and fast food servers!

Cain worked for the Naval Department on missile development.  How gullible are you?