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Bashir To Tancredo: Would You Prefer Obama’s Death Rather Than Bin Laden?

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» 84 comments

Former Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo appeared with Martin Bashir yesterday on MSNBC to discuss immigration reform, but the fireworks started way before the two came anywhere near that topic. Tancredo previously referred to President Obama as a greater threat to America than Osama bin Laden and Bashir was determined to find out just how seriously Tancredo was about that statement.

After Bashir and Tancredo disagreed whether the media would have treated President Bush differently if he had ordered the “assassination” the same way Obama had, Bashir seemingly tried to get provocative. Bashir strangely asked, “to follow your logic, would you have preferred then the death of the President as opposed to Bin Laden.” An outraged Tancredo responded, “of course not. My God. And that is not a logical assumption that anybody would make. Only you would say a thing like that.”

Tancredo argued his rhetoric about the President was always understood to mean that Obama should be stopped from getting a second term, and never that any violence should be perpetuated against him. It’s clear though that by the end of this confrontation, Bashir and Tancredo were not understanding anything the other had to say on this issue.

Watch the clip from MSNBC below:

(h/t BreitbartTV)

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  • The Lantern of Truth

    MSNBC not running out of nasty whackjob liberals anytime soon .

  • Cancon2

    Race to the bottom is on!

  • Cecelia

    Tancredo made a stupid comment, but Bashir makes an even stupider comment…

    sheesh…

  • BatBoy

    Tancrado was 100% correct…I have no idea how MB came to that conclusion….he is just another lefty trying to throw the crap against the wall to see what will stick.

    Tancrado did the right thing and put a stop to that line of questioning immediately.

  • JasonMays

    Seriously Schneider, no harsh rhetoric for this clown for saying such a completely insane thing?

    All we get is that it was “strangely asked”?

    Imagine the outrage from these liberals if someone on FOX had asked a democrat such a thing about Bush. LOL. You just can’t make this shit up.

  • Liberal Tormentor

    A-MESS-NBC, your place for liberal lunacy.

  • errxn

    Tancredo really should have just walked off the interview at that point. Utterly ridiculous.

  • JasonMays

    To say Obama is a greater threat than Osama is foolish, only in the sense that you have to know how stupid your average American is, and how they get their news from blurbs put out mostly by biased liberal outlets who play them out of context.

    He meant that Obama is a bigger threat on domestic issues. Economic wise, mostly. Intelligent people know this to be true.

  • Barack Must Go

    Great. Apparently now us white ” real ” Americans have to deal with fighting off the wall attacks from racist muslim imports too.

    Not to mention racist whitey, cop killin rapper / poets recieving open arm invitations into our White House.

    Only in a Barack Obama amerika could this _____ be allowed to happen.

  • The Lantern of Truth

    Tom is an American patriot .

  • http://www.perceptionasreality.blogspot.com/ skoorbekim

    Time for Comcast to take out the trash…

  • writer

    Time for Comcast to take out the trash…

    Olbermann is filling the bin at the moment.

  • JasonMays

    skoorbekim said:
    Time for Comcast to take out the trash…

    Comcast seems complicit in allowing these far left kooks spread their filth.

    I thought the shit canning of Olberdouche might be a beacon of hope, but it appears that was only a contract dispute, and the fact that not even the libtards on the network could stand him.

  • http://www.perceptionasreality.blogspot.com/ skoorbekim

    writer said:
    Time for Comcast to take out the trash… Olbermann is filling the bin at the moment.

    might have to wait for Bulk Trask week…

  • http://www.perceptionasreality.blogspot.com/ skoorbekim

    JasonMays said:
    Comcast seems complicit in allowing these far left kooks spread their filth. I thought the shit canning of Olberdouche might be a beacon of hope, but it appears that was only a contract dispute, and the fact that not even the libtards on the network could stand him.

    I think MSNBC helps the Conservative cause…

    if Liberalism is a bunch of Two-Minute haters so be it… they are the spoiled children who want more cookies than their playmates… and will launch a temper tantrum to get it…

  • Liberal Tormentor

    Come on guys, if there were no A-MESS-NBC, where would we get our comic relief?

    Oh wait, I guess we still have CNN, ABC, CBS, NYT, WA POST, and Mediaite.

  • skyfet

    These 2 phonies are a disgrace to the Human race.

  • Arkansas Steve

    MARTIN,
    Disgustingly bad question.
    However, if Tom or I had to choose among the deaths of Obama, Osama, and Martin Bashir, and if we ha to choose one, and only one, to die, it would be a tough choice between Osama & you!
    At least we might re-capture some intelligence from Osama. There ain’t much of that stuff in your brain.

  • mlb

    JasonMays said:
    Imagine the outrage from these liberals if someone on FOX had asked a democrat such a thing about Bush. LOL. You just can’t make this shit up.

    Well, since they were in business of calling for his death on a regular basis for 8 years, I doubt there would have been any outrage. Maybe just a response of uncomfortable laughter.

  • jerrybobphil

    Pretty clear with questions like this why Martin Bashir has bounced from job to job and now is at the bottom of the news cycle at MSNBC next stop Current TV.

  • justanotherconservative

    mlb said:
    Well, since they were in business of calling for his death on a regular basis for 8 years, I doubt there would have been any outrage. Maybe just a response of uncomfortable laughter.

    Excellent point. Thank you. Too bad many will deny it.

  • Edith Massey

    The really sick, sad, and horrible thing is that a lot of disgusting Republican teabaggers probably would prefer the death of our president to the death of OBL, people who post on this website.

  • tatboy

    “How often do you beat your wife?”

  • tatboy

    Edith Massey said:
    The really sick, sad, and horrible thing is that a lot of disgusting Republican teabaggers probably would prefer the death of our president to the death of OBL, people who post on this website.

    Like a lot on the left (like you) would have prefered Bush dead to Osama. It goes BOTH ways.

  • Liberal Tormentor

    Edith, you are a moron. I know of NO ONE who wants to see Obama dead.

  • ChrisNH

    More self-immolation from Leftist media hacks who are very sad that Liberalism and Obamo have both come crashing down like the Hindenburg. With nothing to prop up their failed narrative that Liberalism and Obamo are good and God-like, they resort to self-immolation tactics like Marty Bashir here. Not that there’s anything wrong with this. Tee-hee!

  • errxn

    Liberal Tormentor said:
    Edith, you are a moron. I know of NO ONE who wants to see Obama dead.

    If *anyone* had a right to want to see him dead, it was me, yesterday, after being stuck in the horrendous traffic jam caused by his little trip out to west Austin for the $35K a plate fundraiser. But, no, I don’t want that. At all. I cussed a little bit, then laughed at the irony and got over it.

  • Jerps

    Wow, Bashir really has no shame. He needs his own show on Current.

  • jo hoochie

    Liberal Tormentor said:
    Edith, you are a moron. I know of NO ONE who wants to see Obama dead.

    OMG No! Then we would have the Looney Botox Biden as president.
    Edith is a crazed socialist like a few others who post here.

  • Barack Must Go

    Edith Massey said:
    The really sick, sad, and horrible thing is that a lot of disgusting Republican teabaggers probably would prefer the death of our president to the death of OBL, people who post on this website.

    Not dead……just gone.

  • http://www.perceptionasreality.blogspot.com/ skoorbekim

    Edith Massey said:
    The really sick, sad, and horrible thing is that a lot of disgusting Republican teabaggers probably would prefer the death of our president to the death of OBL, people who post on this website.

    careful, you might end up with your own show on MSNBC…

  • tatboy

    “Tancredo previously referred to President Obama as a greater threat to America than Osama bin Laden and Bashir was determined to find out just how seriously Tancredo was about that statement.”

    Funny…. I remember a liberal on MSNBC making a similar comment in Playboy. But I can’t remember his name… it escapes me… can anyone help me out here? ;)

  • Barack Must Go

    Jerps said:
    Wow, Bashir really has no shame. He needs his own show on Current.

    No, he needs to be deported.

  • TrollJuice

    errxn says:
    May 11, 2011 at 11:03 am (Quote)
    Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Liberal Tormentor said:
    Edith, you are a moron. I know of NO ONE who wants to see Obama dead.

    If *anyone* had a right to want to see him dead, it was me, yesterday, after being stuck in the horrendous traffic jam caused by his little trip out to west Austin for the $35K a plate fundraiser. But, no, I don’t want that. At all. I cussed a little bit, then laughed at the irony and got over it.
    ====================

    Sent this on to the SS…..you should be hearing from them soon.

  • errxn

    TrollJuice said:

    Sent this on to the SS…..you should be hearing from them soon.

    I’m sure they’ll be happy to inform you that your reading comprehension skills are somewhat lacking.

  • Edith Massey

    errxn said:
    If *anyone* had a right to want to see him dead, it was me, yesterday, after being stuck in the horrendous traffic jam caused by his little trip out to west Austin for the $35K a plate fundraiser. But, no, I don’t want that. At all. I cussed a little bit, then laughed at the irony and got over it.

    Case in point, the way you people talk about our President as being a Muslim, a Manchurian Candidate, a Kenyan, a Socialist (oh noes!!!), a Fascist and countless other inane clames is my proof, you people for the last 2 years have been burning up the message boards, being lil internet superheroes and claiming you “want your country back”. Newsflash you aren’t going to get your country back, we just took it from you and from all the racist, elderly SS/Medicare collecting losers.

    Seriously I have never seen any of you on various websites and in my daily life, give this much grief to OBL or Saddam Hussein etc.

    Tancredo said that Obama is a greater threat to our country than OBL ever was. Look at what we did to OBL, seriously you people are sick and I really hope none of you have children, I would hate to think you are rearing a new generation of idiot racists.

  • Edith Massey

    BTW the President’s new approval rating is at 60%, good luck in 2012! Who are you running Michelle Bachmann? Donald Trump? Newt? Tim Paulenty? hahahahaha.

  • Barack Must Go

    Edith Massey said:
    BTW the President’s new approval rating is at 60%, good luck in 2012! Who are you running Michelle Bachmann? Donald Trump? Newt? Tim Paulenty? hahahahaha.

    In an A/P poll he does.

  • Pablo

    Bashir is just thinking back to the days when he wished Bush dead over bin Ladin.

  • Pablo

    Edith Massey said:
    BTW the President’s new approval rating is at 60%, good luck in 2012! Who are you running Michelle Bachmann? Donald Trump? Newt? Tim Paulenty? hahahahaha.

    Moonbat math is going to carry the day for you, ayuh.

    And the award for the most ridiculous poll sampling goes to …

  • errxn

    Edith Massey said:
    Case in point, the way you people talk about our President as being a Muslim, a Manchurian Candidate, a Kenyan, a Socialist (oh noes!!!), a Fascist and countless other inane clames is my proof, you people for the last 2 years have been burning up the message boards, being lil internet superheroes and claiming you “want your country back”. Newsflash you aren’t going to get your country back, we just took it from you and from all the racist, elderly SS/Medicare collecting losers.

    Seriously I have never seen any of you on various websites and in my daily life, give this much grief to OBL or Saddam Hussein etc.

    Tancredo said that Obama is a greater threat to our country than OBL ever was. Look at what we did to OBL, seriously you people are sick and I really hope none of you have children, I would hate to think you are rearing a new generation of idiot racists.

    Wow, you got all that from my comment where all I was talking about was his motorcade screwing up traffic? You are an AMAZING clairvoyant!

  • notsofast

    You mean Obama is not Osama?

  • Pablo

    The Lantern of Truth said:
    MSNBC not running out of nasty whackjob liberals anytime soon .

    Yes, but they are importing them now, so maybe the domestic supply is dwindling. You know, like adoptable babies.

  • darladoon

    tancredo doesn’t know what marxism is

    anyone who thinks obama is a marxist has no idea what marxism is

  • Rgentum

    And this is why you should never compare people to Hitler, Stalin, bin Laden, Michael Bay, or any other nefarious historical figure.

    Except Tom Tancredo, who is exactly like Hitler.

  • writer

    Edith, could we have the Powerball numbers next?

  • TerryDo

    No one hopes for Obama’s death, he is into SELF-UNDOING and Obama can and will end his own presidency.

    He is not known as the president of America, but as the PERPETUAL RUNNING CANDIDATE for the presidency of America and his tour ends in 2012…

    The world laughs at Obama ( and by implication America) and they know he is a weak leader and a one term president.
    Anyone but BHO, anyone but BHO, anyone but BHO!!!!!!!!!!!! Just saying!

  • mlb

    Edith Massey said:
    Newsflash you aren’t going to get your country back, we just took it from you and from all the racist, elderly SS/Medicare collecting losers.

    Careful Edith, you will be old someday as well …

    Are you implying that only old white people are collecting SS/Medicare? No blacks, Asian, Mexican, etc…- none? I had no idea the system was set-up based on race and not income from hard working Americans tapping into their own funds. Where do food stamps and welfare collectors fall on your scale of racism? You do know that SS is based on income earned while working right? It isn’t some federally funded, slush fund for white people only.

    And by the way, Obama has stated that he was raised as a believer in Muslim tradition while living in Indonesia and has never renounced his beliefs, his father was Kenyan, so that makes Obama very proud of his African roots and he does support a socialist agenda and has backed this up many times. No one has a problem stating facts but you clearly have a problem hearing them and translating them into some sort of ‘hate’ rhetoric.

    70 congressional Democrats belong to the Socialist Party of America (as of 2009) and this whom Obama most identifies both in domestic policy but in social and economic as well.

    You blanket of racism, only covers your ignorance.

  • WCinWI

    Where’s my hat tip? I sent this clip over. :)

  • Edith Massey

    mlb said
    70 congressional Democrats belong to the Socialist Party of America (as of 2009) and this whom Obama most identifies both in domestic policy but in social and economic as well..

    Do your children even take you seriously? Seek professional help.

  • Colorado_Conservative

    Edith Massey said:
    The really sick, sad, and horrible thing is that a lot of disgusting Republican teabaggers probably would prefer the death of our president to the death of OBL, people who post on this website.

    The only ones I hear complaining about Obama murdering Osama in cold blood are the flaming Liberals!!

    In the mixed upped f***ed upped world of Liberalism it is OK to assassinate a terrorist but not splash a little water on their face!

  • Colorado_Conservative

    Good thing the Navy Seals shot Osama instead of throwing a pair of panties on his head or the Libtards would really be fuming!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexander-Bowen/100000126785600 Alexander Bowen

    Tranchedo is always been a bigot and a terrorist in his own thinking

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Templeton/1642703797 Dave Templeton

    Obama’s assasination wouldn’t not be all that satisfying as gaffe master Biden would then be asked to make decisions and to remember what decisions he is making. These are task that Biden is simply not able to perform and part of the reason why the Obama administration was eager to have Biden as a running mate!

  • Zandandido

    I guess Martin Bashir didn’t hear the call to calm down the rhetoric. This is such a ridiculous question. Bashir must be really stupid when he can’t tell the difference between politics and actuality. What Tancredo said was, simply, stupid as hell. But what Bashir said, was worse. I remember hearing that Rosie O’Donnell said that Bush was worst Osama Bin Laden. And there is even a facebook page saying that Bush is worse than Osama Bin Laden and where did it come from NYU. What about the environmentalists saying that environmentalist is worse than Osama Bin Laden. Anyone who says a President is worse than Osama Bin Laden, Adolph Hitler, Mao Zedong, “Uncle” Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Omar al-Bashir, Mahmoud Ahminejad, Vladimir Lenin, etc, etc, etc is just a pure, full-on idiot. Actually they are worse than that, on top of their shoulders is a bag full of pebbles, not pennies (even though that wouldn’t make cents, HA). Tancredo, O’Donnell, Bashir, and anyone else are just pebble-sack headed fools.

  • Zandandido

    Edith Massey said:
    The really sick, sad, and horrible thing is that a lot of disgusting Republican teabaggers probably would prefer the death of our president to the death of OBL, people who post on this website.

    What about your commie left-wing radicals? You bloody hypocrite.

  • Zandandido

    Edith Massey said:
    BTW the President’s new approval rating is at 60%, good luck in 2012! Who are you running Michelle Bachmann? Donald Trump? Newt? Tim Paulenty? hahahahaha.

    Yeah, you must not be that old to remember this. But after the FIRST Gulf War in 1991, President George H.W. Bush had approval ratings of over 90%. Heavyweight Democrats such as Gov. Mario Cuomo, Sen. Bill Bradley, Sen. Al Gore, Rep. Dick Gephardt declined to run for U.S. President. Then by September 1992, the economy went down and Clinton won. Edith, you a just a little child who doesn’t know history.

  • Zandandido

    Rgentum said:
    And this is why you should never compare people to Hitler, Stalin, bin Laden, Michael Bay, or any other nefarious historical figure.

    Except Tom Tancredo, who is exactly like Hitler.

    Dumbass.

  • mlb

    Edith Massey said:
    Do your children even take you seriously? Seek professional help.

    Again, facts render you stupid… nice witty response.

  • WCinWI

    aaronmfleszar said:

    You may leave now spammer.

  • Zandandido

    mlb said:
    Again, facts render you stupid… nice witty response.

    As they didn’t answer the question. Spin, spin, spinning, like a toilet flushing.

  • The_Reasonable_Lib

    Bashir’s just asking questions. What’s wrong with asking questions?

    And if Tancredo says that Obama is a bigger threat then wouldn’t he prefer the bigger threat eliminated? So he is either spouting bullshit hyperbole to appeal to the idiotic masses or he is lying in this instance.

  • posterchild

    Words matter Tom.

  • MrTPar_taY

    The name Bashir stands for ‘dog that eats shit’ in whatever part of the world he comes from.

  • TeaPartyPatriot

    “Bashir To Tancredo: Would You Prefer Obama’s Death Rather Than Bin Laden?”

    Tancredo did a fantastic job of smacking down this scumbag lowlife for his inappropriate, outrageous trash question. Bravo, Tom !!!!

  • Darr247

    Dave Templeton said:
    Obama’s assasination wouldn’t not be all that satisfying as gaffe master Biden would then be asked to make decisions and to remember what decisions he is making. These are task that Biden is simply not able to perform and part of the reason why the Obama administration was eager to have Biden as a running mate!

    But if the TP’ers ‘bagged’ the President and ol’ Joe at the same time, OHBoener, the foreigner (note he has NEVER released his long form birth certificate, nor even been asked to do so by the TP’ers) planted here as a janitor over 50 years ago by Venezuelan presidente Chavez’s father Yugo, with orders to infiltrate the government (and you thought he just had a ‘good tan’ – HAH!), would automatically take over as president thanks to the 25th amendment.

    Hard to believe congress wasted time passing amendments banning (then permitting again) alcohol before they ever thought about orderly succession beyond the VP. Or not, I guess. Still, you would think after the Lincoln/Johnson/Seward assassination plot they would have given it *some* thought prior to 100 years passing.

  • posterchild

    Words don’t matter Tom.

    Let’s see if I get a few thumbs up now, hypocrites.

  • namseer

    tatboy said:
    “How often do you beat your wife?”

    That’s not the way that question goes. It’s “When did you stop beating your wife?”

  • brownsound

    Edith Massey said:
    BTW the President’s new approval rating is at 60%,

    Nice try Ediot. The AP poll you refer to was skewed by polling 17% more DEMOCRATS than republicans. We can make polls say anything we want if the sample is tainted

  • labman57

    Advice to tea party loons: Say what you mean, mean what you say, and have the courage of your convictions to recognize and acknowledge the potential consequences of your public comments … otherwise just shut the f*ck up!

  • Zandandido

    labman57 said:
    Advice to tea party loons: Say what you mean, mean what you say, and have the courage of your convictions to recognize and acknowledge the potential consequences of your public comments … otherwise just shut the f*ck up!

    Tell your friend Common to do the same. If he’s writing a song about Assata Shakur, who is a cop killer, then he should stand for it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Catherine-Coy/1207016798 Catherine Coy

    Now we see exactly why Martin Bashir was practically driven out of the UK on a rail, forced to come to the US to peddle his drivel, to the everlasting regret of everyone who has ever been interviewed by him. Eventually–the sooner the better–no newsworthy person will agree to be booked on his show and he’ll slink off to Olbermann-land where he belongs. Buh bye Marty.

  • abowen

    so sick and tired of reading about extreme right wing republican zelots that no longer reading about these idiots

  • Judson58

    The story here is that there is no story. Tancredo is being Tancredo (nothing new) — a former congressman recycling himself to stay relevant in the party. Bashir is being Bashir (nothing here ever — now or in the past) — also recycling like mad to retain the shreds of a very shady career. Both are self-important windbags. At least Tancredo was, at one time, elected by the voters. Bashir, however, is force-fed by MSNBC to a public on whom he has no measurable impact and who would not feel his absence. MSNBC’s dogged support of him may deserve a ‘C’ for misplaced loyalty but certainly an ‘F’ for business sense.

  • TillieGlockenspiel

    Catherine Coy said:
    Now we see exactly why Martin Bashir was practically driven out of the UK on a rail, forced to come to the US to peddle his drivel, to the everlasting regret of everyone who has ever been interviewed by him. Eventually–the sooner the better–no newsworthy person will agree to be booked on his show and he’ll slink off to Olbermann-land where he belongs. Buh bye Marty.

    Thank you, thank you, Catherine, for your comment. I could not agree more! I wouldn’t watch Bashir if they paid me to do so.

  • Glackin

    brownsound said:
    Nice try Ediot. The AP poll you refer to was skewed by polling 17% more DEMOCRATS than republicans. We can make polls say anything we want if the sample is tainted

    Butthead, there ARE more D’s than R’s. You belong to a minority party. Polls sample the population, not the parties.

  • insideguy

    And this ladies and gentlemen is how a large portion of the right think. Amazing yes, unbelievable nope.

  • mlb

    Glackin said:
    Butthead, there ARE more D’s than R’s. You belong to a minority party. Polls sample the population, not the parties.

    Are you kidding! Polls sample what pollsters want them to sample, and the data is up for grabs. That’s is why they have a margin of error.

  • Glackin

    mlb said:
    Are you kidding! Polls sample what pollsters want them to sample, and the data is up for grabs. That’s is why they have a margin of error.

    So, when the teatards and Republicons tout Obama’s “LOW” numbers, that’s BS?

  • Dem4Ever

    Martin Bashir wants Obama to be killed so that he can blame Republicans, but all he is doing is putting ideas in the heads of every lib and prog out there. Sad, very sad!

  • TerryDo

    Martin Bashir parents come from Pakistan and perhaps he is upset with Obama, for invading his parent’s homeland, thus perhaps the more appropriate question would be to ask Martin Bashir~~~~ Would You Prefer Obama’s Death Rather Than Bin Laden because of Obama invading Pakistan sovereignty?

    Or are you just planting negative seeds.

  • Barack Must Go

    TerryDo said:
    Martin Bashir parents come from Pakistan and perhaps he is upset with Obama, for invading his parent’s homeland, thus perhaps the more appropriate question would be to ask Martin Bashir~~~~ Would You Prefer Obama’s Death Rather Than Bin Laden because of Obama invading Pakistan sovereignty?

    Or are you just planting negative seeds.

    Bashir needs to be deported or maybe just locked away at Gitmo for 30 or 40 years. He is definitely an enemy combatant and needs to be made an example of.

    I can just hear it now. The other prisoners will be saying ” tastes just like chicken ” as Marty squawks then lays an egg.

  • http://Mediaite.com uggugg

    Why are oil companies charging so much for their oil? Main reason is, because they can. Why can they? Because all the oil companies formed a CARTEL, a Cartel is a group of companies joined together and cooperates to STOP COMPETETION, a sort of clever method of PRICE FIXING. There is abundance of Crude Oil and they continue to raise the price until a large number of buyers stop buying, they then lower the price again until they start buying again. “They call this what the market will bear”. The people using these barrels of oil are (captive customers) which makes the business men suppliers look like greedy hard core profiteers. This does maximize their profits but they are killing the bees that make the Honey. Do they also think; “there are plenty more bees where they came from”?
    The Gasoline prices are pretty much the same. They raise the price of a gallon of gasoline until a large number of people quit buying, then they lower the price until everyone starts buying again. This is a sensible way of arriving at a price for products not related to the necessities of life. Price gouging on products produced for the necessities of life and economic stability and progress should be classed as a heinous act and unethical in all business. On the necessities of Life, people will buy till they go broke or die. That is no civilized way of setting prices.
    The only thing greedy business men understand is legislation. Legislation is like a contract. Every business man will tell you, when doing business never work without a contract. New Legislation should be implemented and adjusted frequently to keep business fair and running smoother.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ed-Williams/100002184228588 Ed Williams

    All right, somebody has to say it- Obama going bye-bye would likely have more positive effect on America than UBL going bye-bye… We’ve come to a hell of a pass. eh?

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