Just look to Greece if you want to see entitlement mentality go crazy at the possibility of cutting back services.

This is great television, and it explains why O’Hannity relies on the Drop Out Governoresque type of guest. The formidable Ms. Webber reminded all of us that O’Hannity is and shall remain one of Amerika’s infamous twits.

Life expetancy higher in the UK.
Score 1 for Ms. Webber.
At least the UK is dealing with its deficit.
Score 2 for Ms. Webber.
Better than expected economic growth in the UK.
Score 3 for Ms. Webber.

It’s a Bloody Blow-Out. Well, when O’Hannity is your team’s goalee.

all of which was dismissed pretty convincingly by Webber’s more concrete statistic that “life expectancy is longer in the UK than [in the US].”

Uh, no. Take out gun deaths and car crashes, and our life expectancy is higher. That stat is not the result of better healthcare in the UK.

More Liberty said:
Just look to Greece if you want to see entitlement mentality go crazy at the possibility of cutting back services.

I don’t entirely disagree with you, but, in fairness, when Greece entered the EU there was an influx of capital for infrastructure improvement. That was “diverted” into a witless benevolence program, almost fraudulent in its conception. Entitlement is actually a relatively small part of the package. If you want to seize upon entitlement-realted issues, Ireland, the entitlement capital of the world, is a better example.

Pablo said:
Uh, no. Take out gun deaths and car crashes, and our life expectancy is higher. That stat is not the result of better healthcare in the UK.

So, you’re making an argument for gun control and public transportation. That is unusually enlightened for you.

I’m a conservative but watching Hannity can be annoying.

While he often has good points he cuts his guests off before they can present their point of view. Like it or not, even liberals can sometimes offer a debatable point in defense of their views. Hannity doesn’t wait for the full sentence, he just bulldozes his side of the issue. Which, as much as I often agree with what he’s saying, reduces the debate to a shouting match. No debate, just argument.

If your point is valid shut up and let the other side present theirs, then blast them with facts.

This woman is an idiot. She just repeats democrat talking points. Nobody in this country goes without health care. The people in this country get treated faster even without insurance than those in England that are on the socialist plan.
She wants to argue over whether the government in England is going to get rid of 500,000 employees or 590,000.
She doesn’t think her government is Socialist. LOL.
She is a whack job.
The difference in life expectancy between England and U.S. has nothing to do with health care. It has to do with life style and the fact we are engaged in two wars.

When Companies force employees to get medical examiners, Companies pay for the examiner. That’s fair.
Who ever demands to act, should pay for it.
You want Competition in medical? Well, competition is a myth, look at OPEC. Gasoline is 4 times the cost of what it should be. Medical today is 4 time what it should be. You got a problem here already, it’s called a Cartel. A Cartel, according to a Dictionary, is designed to limit Competition and it has just about destroys the industry already. It’s dumb to keep doing the same thing all the time and continue to expect better results. Every segment of the medical industry should be audited for graft and corruption, especially the prescription drug Cartel. Our leaders are afraid of these financially powerful people. Reagan would audit these businesses in a minute.

The Real Royal King said:
So, you’re making an argument for gun control and public transportation. That is unusually enlightened for you.

You have made three posts and all of them are really stupid.

uggugg said:
When Companies force employees to get medical examiners, Companies pay for the examiner. That’s fair.Who ever demands to act, should pay for it.You want Competition in medical? Well, competition is a myth, look at OPEC. Gasoline is 4 times the cost of what it should be. Medical today is 4 time what it should be. You got a problem here already, it’s called a Cartel. A Cartel, according to a Dictionary, is designed to limit Competition and it has just about destroys the industry already. It’s dumb to keep doing the same thing all the time and continue to expect better results. Every segment of the medical industry should be audited for graft and corruption, especially the prescription drug Cartel. Our leaders are afraid of these financially powerful people. Reagan would audit these businesses in a minute.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I pay $25 dollars a month for my health care. I can go to a doctor 30 times a month and it is still $25 a month. I love that COMPETITION.

Actually they leave out certain things like infant deaths and others to compute the life expectancy in the UK.

If you leave out specific chunks of data you are comparing apples and oranges and when ALL data is utilized in the comparision we out live folks in the UK. This is a VERY old canard that has been shown to be disenginuous at best and an out right lie most of the time.

I cannot believe that anyone short of Michale Moore would state that we do not have the best health care on the planet.

I offer simply as proof the fact that when ANYONE of moderate means or better has a choice……they choose the USA.

That’s called voting with your wallet.

The Real Rabid Kook said:
So, you’re making an argument for gun control and public transportation. That is unusually enlightened for you.

No, I’m not. That unfounded assumption is rather typical for you, Kook.

VoiceofReason said:

I offer simply as proof the fact that when ANYONE of moderate means or better has a choice……they choose the USA.

That’s called voting with your wallet.

And putting your life where your mouth is.

The Real Royal King said:
I don’t entirely disagree with you, but, in fairness, when Greece entered the EU there was an influx of capital for infrastructure improvement. That was “diverted” into a witless benevolence program, almost fraudulent in its conception. Entitlement is actually a relatively small part of the package. If you want to seize upon entitlement-realted issues, Ireland, the entitlement capital of the world, is a better example.

Are their pensions “entitlement”?

This seems to be an enormous part of the problems in the EU countries fighting the austerity moves.

That and that they seem to feel they can retire at 50……………

gordonbloyershow said:
You have made three posts and all of them are really stupid.

that’s because he’s an asshole.

gordonbloyershow said:
The difference in life expectancy between England and U.S. has nothing to do with health care. It has to do with life style and the fact we are engaged in two wars.

Typical Marceaux, I mean Blower krap. The casulaties in those two wars have impacted the troops and their families and friends. But, the casualties have not impacted on demographics. In the one sense, there are too many, to be sure, but in the demographic sense, there is not jump in the trend lines.

Your post is replete with other such off-the-cuff krap that you simply use to bolster your increasingly weak arguments.

You’ve become a clown, and not an amusing one.

gordonbloyershow said:
You have made three posts and all of them are really stupid.

It’s pure Hegelian logic and reasoning. If Rabbit didn’t mean this, he should have framed his argument more carefully Marceaux, I mean Blower.

Oh and BTW……..that Hannity might have got bested by this dippy dopey Brit is more a testimonial to the lack of intellectual chops of Sean One Trick Pony Hannity than it is to her specious arguments, the prowess of the NHS or the lack of in American health care.

I got a hundred bucksthat says if this bitch got bad sick she would be here in a heartbeat.

The Real Royal King said:
Typical Marceaux, I mean Blower krap. The casulaties in those two wars have impacted the troops and their families and friends. But, the casualties have not impacted on demographics. In the one sense, there are too many, to be sure, but in the demographic sense, there is not jump in the trend lines. Your post is replete with other such off-the-cuff krap that you simply use to bolster your increasingly weak arguments. You’ve become a clown, and not an amusing one.

Yet you continue to parrot the false and misleading statement that our health care isn’t up to snuff with the UK or that they live longer than we do.

Why don’t you try to support that specious argument rather than pick the flyshit out of the pepper that is his posting?

VoiceofReason said:
Are their pensions “entitlement”?

This seems to be an enormous part of the problems in the EU countries fighting the austerity moves.

That and that they seem to feel they can retire at 50……………

You seem as fluent in matters European as you are in shōmyō and gagaku or as you are in preparing chiperones en su tinta. Perhaps, you should speak of matters about which you are knowledgeable.

VoiceofReason said:
Yet you continue to parrot the false and misleading statement that our health care isn’t up to snuff with the UK or that they live longer than we do.

Why don’t you try to support that specious argument rather than pick the flyshit out of the pepper that is his posting?

That’s moronic. I don’t think the UK system would work in America. Perhaps, the French or German, tweaked a bit.

The Real Royal King said:
You seem as fluent in matters European as you are in shōmyō and gagaku or as you are in preparing chiperones en su tinta. Perhaps, you should speak of matters about which you are knowledgeable.

And you seem fluent in matters of obfuscation.

But that is standard tact for the 21st century progressive.

When called on a point, call names.

You’re 1 and 0.

Sean Hannity’s debates are always pointless. He clearly is one that doesn’t know what he is talking about. You can see that he is out of his depth when he has smart people who are present, that’s why he always needs to have someone to back him up. If you ask him how he got the job, he would say he doesn’t know or thet his boss didn’t know what he was doing. It just happened, and he has the GOP who helps him with talking points, otherwise he is empty.
You know the meaning of Hannity in the old country? means nothing, nada, ziltch.

The Real Royal King said:
That’s moronic. I don’t think the UK system would work in America. Perhaps, the French or German, tweaked a bit.

2-0

skyfet said:
Sean Hannity’s debates are always pointless. He clearly is one that doesn’t know what he is talking about. You can see that he is out of his depth when he has smart people who are present, that’s why he always needs to have someone to back him up. If you ask him how he got the job, he would say he doesn’t know or thet his boss didn’t know what he was doing. It just happened, and he has the GOP who helps him with talking points, otherwise he is empty.You know the meaning of Hannity in the old country? means nothing, nada, ziltch.

When he has somebody on that’s smart let us know.

ordonbloyershow says:
December 14, 2010 at 9:37 am gordonbloyershow(Quote)
Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

uggugg said:
When Companies force employees to get medical examiners, Companies pay for the examiner. That’s fair.Who ever demands to act, should pay for it.You want Competition in medical? Well, competition is a myth, look at OPEC. Gasoline is 4 times the cost of what it should be. Medical today is 4 time what it should be. You got a problem here already, it’s called a Cartel. A Cartel, according to a Dictionary, is designed to limit Competition and it has just about destroys the industry already. It’s dumb to keep doing the same thing all the time and continue to expect better results. Every segment of the medical industry should be audited for graft and corruption, especially the prescription drug Cartel. Our leaders are afraid of these financially powerful people. Reagan would audit these businesses in a minute.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I pay $25 dollars a month for my health care. I can go to a doctor 30 times a month and it is still $25 a month. I love that COMPETITION.
=========================

Wow! And you are calling other people idiots!

gordonbloyershow said:
You have made three posts and all of them are really stupid.

You are the last person that is suppose to be talking about being stupidity.

The Real Royal King said:
chiperones en su tinta

PS……….I’m not Buddhist or Japanese although I have family that are.

And, I don’t like squid even in it’s own ink.

skyfet said:
You are the last person that is suppose to be talking about being stupidity.

Are you The First?

Cuz I think you have a fight on your hands for that title………

TrollJuice said:
ordonbloyershow says:December 14, 2010 at 9:37 am gordonbloyershow(Quote)Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 uggugg said:When Companies force employees to get medical examiners, Companies pay for the examiner. That’s fair.Who ever demands to act, should pay for it.You want Competition in medical? Well, competition is a myth, look at OPEC. Gasoline is 4 times the cost of what it should be. Medical today is 4 time what it should be. You got a problem here already, it’s called a Cartel. A Cartel, according to a Dictionary, is designed to limit Competition and it has just about destroys the industry already. It’s dumb to keep doing the same thing all the time and continue to expect better results. Every segment of the medical industry should be audited for graft and corruption, especially the prescription drug Cartel. Our leaders are afraid of these financially powerful people. Reagan would audit these businesses in a minute. You have no idea what you are talking about. I pay $25 dollars a month for my health care. I can go to a doctor 30 times a month and it is still $25 a month. I love that COMPETITION.========================= Wow! And you are calling other people idiots!

And wow you are also just calling folks names…..way to add to the discourse!!!!

More Liberty said:
Just look to Greece if you want to see entitlement mentality go crazy at the possibility of cutting back services.

The debate was a comparison between the UK and the US system. Trying to deflect the debate, which O’Hannity has no clue about.

Hannity look like the idiot, she made a lot more sense then he did. You can’t blame her for looking at a idiot with such amazement.

We need single payer health care and get rid of the middle man BIG INSURANCE once and for all. Not for profit health care!!

Kermit said:
Hannity look like the idiot, she made a lot more sense then he did. You can’t blame her for looking at a idiot with such amazement. We need single payer health care and get rid of the middle man BIG INSURANCE once and for all. Not for profit health care!!

Cuz it has worked sooooo well the other places it’s been implemented.

What do YOU know that the rest of the planet does not?

This was great, Imogen Lloyd Webber, smart as a whip!!

Pablo said:
Uh, no. Take out gun deaths and car crashes, and our life expectancy is higher. That stat is not the result of better healthcare in the UK.

Same thing with Cuba. People walk everywhere because they don’t have up-to-date cars so they aren’t as fat as us.

Give her a show!

With the British HC system near collapse, why is she even defending it?

As a British citizen it was rather interesting to witness this debate on various aspects of the British system. Firstly, I consider myself in the centre of the political spectrum just so you ideologues don’t accuse me of bias; I have some Conservative views but also democratic views with regards to the regulation of markets.

I would just like to clear up some of the misnomers that Sean Hannity constantly spouts on his Fox News pedestal and claiming that Daniel Hannan speaks for the majority of Britain. Whenever he talks about the NHS it irritates me how he seeks to belittle its achievements. Also, as a News Corp. company, if these views were expressed in Murdoch’s papers over here they would attract wide scale boycotts given the popularity of the NHS (the inconsistencies are quite palpable in the sense one system is alright for a right of centre country yet its not for another right of centre country)

With regards to the NHS, it provides a great service to our nation. The primary care that is afforded to all British and EU nationals is unrivalled anywhere in the world. Any operation you can think of is provided on the NHS and there has been a significant improvement in waiting times and the quality of care over the last decade which has meant rising life expectancy. This rationing body that Hannity claims to have some knowledge of does not actually exist. No matter what age you are you receive the highest possible level of care. There is a body called NICE that decides which drugs are available on the NHS but in many cases this is to stop unscrupulous pharmaceutical companies providing drugs unfit for humans. Moreover, there is a private healthcare industry in the UK as well. Individuals will typically use this system if they want to receive care beyond what is provided by the NHS.

Furthermore, the protests that you saw last week were in response to tuition fees tripling to $14000 a year. Now as the commentator said, much of the anger was directed towards Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, who promised before the election not to increase fees. However, much of the violence was caused by the infiltration of anarchists and street gangs who intrinsically like challenging authorities.

Finally, I can’t really comprehend why Americans would object to the coverage and protection of their fellow citizens who maybe can’t afford healthcare. According to the figures, 50 million are not covered and 50, 000 deaths result each year from lack of coverage. I feel America needs to realise that it spends so much on healthcare (more as a percentage of GDP than Britain) without realising the results from that. You have an incredibly unproductive system that uses market forces to ration care and I think its a failing of your media (Fox News especially) to help assist your understanding of the benefits that a basic level of primary care provided by Government brings to a nation. Now I understand that the ceiling of healthcare in the US is marginally greater than in Britain but only very few require that level of care.

One final point, Mr. Hannan represents the extreme right wing view in the EU and the system we have over here is financially sustainable for many years to come. His leader, David Cameron, publicly rebuked him on national TV when he made those comments on Fox. Furthermore, Mr. Hannan has never made comments of this nature on any media format in this country.

notsofast said:
With the British HC system near collapse, why is she even defending it?

You are the one collapsing it. At least they don’t check if you are rich or poor before treating you. Nor do they throw you out in the middle of the night because you don’t have insurance. Open your eyes don’t be a tool.

Moreover, the NHS is ring fenced from government cuts and is going through some efficiency savings given the amount of middle management involved in some areas of the NHS (not the treatment side before anyone says how bureaucracy affects treatment over here) and the deficit is forecast to be balanced by 2014-15, hence, the NHS is sustainable on its current funding pattern.

gordonbloyershow said:
This woman is an idiot. She just repeats democrat talking points.

She’s not a Democrat.

gordonbloyershow said:
Nobody in this country goes without health care.

Tell that to family that decides to forgo treatment for a chronic illness so they can continue to afford their house. Or maybe you’d like to talk to the parents of a child who cannot be covered by insurance due to a pre-existing condition. Thankfully, due to the health care law, the latter no longer occurs.

gordonbloyershow said:
She doesn’t think her government is Socialist.

It isn’t. It’s a social democracy.

gordonbloyershow said:
The difference in life expectancy between England and U.S. has nothing to do with health care.

Yes, it does. It is indicative of overall health outcomes. It’s one of the more general measures.

gordonbloyershow said:
It has to do with life style and the fact we are engaged in two wars.

Last time I checked, the UK were involved the same two wars. Are you suggesting that lifestyles in the UK are better?

skyfet said:
You are the one collapsing it. At least they don’t check if you are rich or poor before treating you. Nor do they throw you out in the middle of the night because you don’t have insurance. Open your eyes don’t be a tool.

They don’t do that in America either. You can walk into any hospital in America, any time of the day or night, and receive medical care.

We even treat non-citizens to whatever they need……we have Meixcan nationals crossing our borders to have children in American hospitals. Hospitals in the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitan area are in such poor shape fiscally because of this very issue. It is a sanctuary city and they have to pay to feed, educate and offer medical care to all those folks.

Can I come to the UK, as an American citizen, and get free HC from the UK system?

gordonbloyershow said:
This woman is an idiot. She just repeats democrat talking points. Nobody in this country goes without health care. The people in this country get treated faster even without insurance than those in England that are on the socialist plan.
She wants to argue over whether the government in England is going to get rid of 500,000 employees or 590,000.
She doesn’t think her government is Socialist. LOL.
She is a whack job.
The difference in life expectancy between England and U.S. has nothing to do with health care. It has to do with life style and the fact we are engaged in two wars.

Funny how you rail against people spitting out talking points then turn around and do the same yourself. I’ll tell you what; go to the hospital without insurance and see what happens to you. I can tell you for a FACT that you won’t get admitted to the Cleveland Clinic. They’ll direct the ambulance to Metro in a heartbeat if you don’t have insurance.
Their government is a democracy by the way. Are you trying to argue about their economic system because that’s what socialism is, at least in the terms that you apply to it.
Are you a fucking idiot? The UK is in those wars. Lifestyles? Are you saying there aren’t a bunch of fat lazy motherfuckers like yourself in the UK? Hell, sign me up then.

Calvin said:
Same thing with Cuba. People walk everywhere because they don’t have up-to-date cars so they aren’t as fat as us.

People in the US need to walk sometimes honestly. You don’t need a car to go around the corner to 7/11 unless you’re disabled in some way.

Stephen Hogan said:
Tell that to family that decides to forgo treatment for a chronic illness so they can continue to afford their house. Or maybe you’d like to talk to the parents of a child who cannot be covered by insurance due to a pre-existing condition. Thankfully, due to the health care law, the latter no longer occurs.

This is very true. I know a young man who works but his employer does not provide healthcare. Recently he was ill for a few weeks but felt he could not go to the doctor as it would cost 125.00 for the visit, plus whatever medicine he may have needed. He got so bad that he had to go to the emergency room. They diagnosed him with double pneumonia. They said it was a surprise he was still alive his lungs were so bad. He spent three days in there with an IV of a very strong anti-biotic. When he got out they had given him a prescription for another antibiotic. When he went to the pharmacy to fill it, it was over 200.00. He could only afford at the time a few of them and got what he could and had to wait till his next payday for the rest. At which time he opted not to get the rest (he felt better) and took his chances.

The hospital bill was around 20,000. Of course they are billing him but ultimately the hospital is going to have to eat that. To which the rest of us are gonna pay for it.

I should think that if he would have been provided fundamental healthcare. He would have gone to the dr, gotten a prescription and never would have seen the emergency room.

People don’t seem to get that the present way we do our health care is costing us plenty in the long run. ie: larger insurance payments and pharmaceutical bills.

He by the way is stuck in the middle. HIs wages don’t are to high for medical assistance and to low to afford out of pocket medical bills.

VoiceofReason said:
They don’t do that in America either. You can walk into any hospital in America, any time of the day or night, and receive medical care.

We even treat non-citizens to whatever they need……we have Meixcan nationals crossing our borders to have children in American hospitals. Hospitals in the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitan area are in such poor shape fiscally because of this very issue. It is a sanctuary city and they have to pay to feed, educate and offer medical care to all those folks.

Can I come to the UK, as an American citizen, and get free HC from the UK system?

You can not receive chronic treatment, like cancer therapy, at the ER.

The Real Royal King said:
Imogen Lloyd Webber

Fact: lie then a lie and then a lie no base of fact Score Hannity for the hat trick!

VoiceofReason said:
They don’t do that in America either. You can walk into any hospital in America, any time of the day or night, and receive medical care.

We even treat non-citizens to whatever they need……we have Meixcan nationals crossing our borders to have children in American hospitals. Hospitals in the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitan area are in such poor shape fiscally because of this very issue. It is a sanctuary city and they have to pay to feed, educate and offer medical care to all those folks.

Can I come to the UK, as an American citizen, and get free HC from the UK system?

You sir are leaving in a dream world. Go and ask the health care professionals on what goes on in their surrounding. You are definitely not informed, it might be a wilful one. Just because thing’s seems to be nice around you doesn’t mean that is the case with everyone else. It was in the news several times last year, that the hospitals were dumping people in the street (some while still dressed in hospital gown).

MiddleRoader said:
I should think that if he would have been provided fundamental healthcare. He would have gone to the dr, gotten a prescription and never would have seen the emergency room.

That’s one of the big things people are not really thinking about in this debate. Most people who cannot afford to go to the doctor will wait until the condition is serious, necessitating the ER, which costs all of us.

I’m sorry about your friend. I hope things get easier.

VoiceofReason said:
Can I come to the UK, as an American citizen, and get free HC from the UK system?

Yes. The NHS doesn’t discriminate, you come in and get treated, no insurance forms to fill out etc.

Stephen Hogan said:
You can not receive chronic treatment, like cancer therapy, at the ER.

Thanks for not answering my question.

skyfet said:
You sir are leaving in a dream world. Go and ask the health care professionals on what goes on in their surrounding. You are definitely not informed, it might be a wilful one. Just because thing’s seems to be nice around you doesn’t mean that is the case with everyone else. It was in the news several times last year, that the hospitals were dumping people in the street (some while still dressed in hospital gown).

Please provide the cite for American Hospitals thropwing gowned patients out into the streets.

As to the rest……you assume much……like I don’t have a working knowledge of the American health care system…..bad assuption. Also you assume I don’t have friends or family in the health care industry. Another failed assumption. You assume that I have never worked in the Hc system in America. Another fail.

How much poor crap can you pound into one post dude?

I think that the moral of this is that people should stop casting aspersions when they do not have a clue about the subject or experience of a free healthcare system. In my earlier post, I sought to establish a factual basis for the discussion in relation to the British system and provide those who may be opposed to it with first hand experience. Reading some of these comments against free healthcare for all it seems that the bases for opposition is misguided at best, ignorant at worst.

I like America. I fully intend to go to an Ivy League grad school but the healthcare situation is a concern and that is why I will maintain dual citizenship when I go over.

Jake said:
Yes. The NHS doesn’t discriminate, you come in and get treated, no insurance forms to fill out etc.

Really? Why do the French people I interact with online say different?

One of my former ball players lives in Sweeden now and he says different too.

Are they mistaken?

Fact: Cradle to grave entitlements for all. No job duty stress. I might have a long life expectancy too, but I living in Europe would rather go join a local riot outbreak in town!

olivergannon said:
I think that the moral of this is that people should stop casting aspersions when they do not have a clue about the subject or experience of a free healthcare system. In my earlier post, I sought to establish a factual basis for the discussion in relation to the British system and provide those who may be opposed to it with first hand experience. Reading some of these comments against free healthcare for all it seems that the bases for opposition is misguided at best, ignorant at worst. I like America. I fully intend to go to an Ivy League grad school but the healthcare situation is a concern and that is why I will maintain dual citizenship when I go over.

Yeah too bad everyone paying high taxes for you to have free shit doesn’t work over here.

Oh wait………

olivergannon said:
I think that the moral of this is that people should stop casting aspersions when they do not have a clue about the subject or experience of a free healthcare system. In my earlier post, I sought to establish a factual basis for the discussion in relation to the British system and provide those who may be opposed to it with first hand experience. Reading some of these comments against free healthcare for all it seems that the bases for opposition is misguided at best, ignorant at worst. I like America. I fully intend to go to an Ivy League grad school but the healthcare situation is a concern and that is why I will maintain dual citizenship when I go over.

Fact: Get the facts straight what is free about healhcare?

VoiceofReason said:
Thanks for not answering my question.

I didn’t answer your question because I honestly don’t know if you can or cannot. I did, however, found an error in your premise. You stated that you can just walk into a hospital for medical treatment and receive it. Although, that is largely true for single visit emergencies, but it is not true to those that have chronic conditions. Thus, I felt the need to qualify your statement.

The people who need coverage and treatment the most are those that require chronic treatment. You cannot just walk in to an emergency room and ask for treatment for your cancer.

gordonbloyershow said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. I pay $25 dollars a month for my health care. I can go to a doctor 30 times a month and it is still $25 a month. I love that COMPETITION.

Gordo in another post way back you admitted to collecting SS. So then is your 25.00 payment part of medicare? If so, you need to STFU, cause then your getting goverment run healthcare.

VoiceofReason said:
Please provide the cite for American Hospitals thropwing gowned patients out into the streets.

As to the rest……you assume much……like I don’t have a working knowledge of the American health care system…..bad assuption. Also you assume I don’t have friends or family in the health care industry. Another failed assumption. You assume that I have never worked in the Hc system in America. Another fail.

How much poor crap can you pound into one post dude?

You must be out of your mind, are you kidding me or just pulling my legs.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5298034
http://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/enforcement/cmp/patient_dumping.asp
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/los-angeles-police-hospital-dumped-homeless-patients-on-skid-row.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/17/60minutes/main2823079.shtml
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-15-skid-row_x.htm

I think you’ll find that in Britain we have greater efficiency in our social entitlement programs that mitigate such a high taxation rate that you have in the States. The new Government will enact further reforms that will cut the amount of benefits paid.

I admire the States and I am a Capitalist who wants to live in the land of opportunity but I also have compassion for those less well off and who have not been afforded the same opportunities in life. Hence, that’s why my middle class family does not mind paying their taxes (at a far lower level than the US I may say) and receive free healthcare where if you have a pre-existing condition your family are not forced to give up their home to look after you; a university education where I am not $100 000 in debt when I graduate and other benefits.

olivergannon said:
Furthermore, the protests that you saw last week were in response to tuition fees tripling to $14000 a year.

Those aren’t protests, those are riots. Not the same thing.

Stephen Hogan said:
The people who need coverage and treatment the most are those that require chronic treatment. You cannot just walk in to an emergency room and ask for treatment for your cancer.

Exactly! Not unless you are on your death bed. A co-worker of mine has been battleing (sp) cancer for a few years now. Luckily he has insurance from our employer plus he is a veteran and can utilize the VA coverage. He showed me his paperwork that is well over 1 million dollars so far. He’d have been dead by now with no coverage. And they talk about death panels?

MiddleRoader said:
Exactly! Not unless you are on your death bed. A co-worker of mine has been battleing (sp) cancer for a few years now. Luckily he has insurance from our employer plus he is a veteran and can utilize the VA coverage. He showed me his paperwork that is well over 1 million dollars so far. He’d have been dead by now with no coverage. And they talk about death panels?

Tell them! these guys do sound like sales agents for the Insurance companies.

Pablo said:
Those aren’t protests, those are riots. Not the same thing.

What I was trying to say was that there were protests over the broken promises from the Lib Dems. However, these were hijacked by anarchists and gangs intent on violence and that is where you saw the violence between the police and protesters. As a non-participating student myself, the anger was not so much at the policy but a new generation of first time voters being lied to.

MiddleRoader said:
This is very true. I know a young man who works but his employer does not provide healthcare. Recently he was ill for a few weeks but felt he could not go to the doctor as it would cost 125.00 for the visit, plus whatever medicine he may have needed. He got so bad that he had to go to the emergency room. They diagnosed him with double pneumonia. They said it was a surprise he was still alive his lungs were so bad. He spent three days in there with an IV of a very strong anti-biotic. When he got out they had given him a prescription for another antibiotic. When he went to the pharmacy to fill it, it was over 200.00. He could only afford at the time a few of them and got what he could and had to wait till his next payday for the rest. At which time he opted not to get the rest (he felt better) and took his chances.

The hospital bill was around 20,000. Of course they are billing him but ultimately the hospital is going to have to eat that. To which the rest of us are gonna pay for it.

I should think that if he would have been provided fundamental healthcare. He would have gone to the dr, gotten a prescription and never would have seen the emergency room.

People don’t seem to get that the present way we do our health care is costing us plenty in the long run. ie: larger insurance payments and pharmaceutical bills.

He by the way is stuck in the middle. HIs wages don’t are to high for medical assistance and to low to afford out of pocket medical bills.

They would have billed him for the $125.00 too. He would have been provided fundamental heath care had he sought it out. Is your friend at all responsible for his own health?

olivergannon said:
What I was trying to say was that there were protests over the broken promises from the Lib Dems. However, these were hijacked by anarchists and gangs intent on violence and that is where you saw the violence between the police and protesters. As a non-participating student myself, the anger was not so much at the policy but a new generation of first time voters being lied to.

And that’s what happens when you put the government of charge of everything. You lose all your other options.

Hmmmm….

I think you should get you kids to help you search on the net. lol, your search failed utterly. Trying to find something that isn’t there. Your search provides the opposite of your lame attempt to debunk something that isn’t there.

Pablo said:
They would have billed him for the $125.00 too. He would have been provided fundamental heath care had he sought it out. Is your friend at all responsible for his own health?

He has two kids he has to pay for medical expenses. He feels his kids are more important than he. And don’t tell me he is irresponible for having kids on his low income. He had had a job that was decent pay and benefits until he got laid off. He did not sit around and collect unemployment forever, he went out to find a job and work. Fact is, he now works two jobs. Neither provides insurance. You know if he had stayed on unemployment he probably could have gotten medical assistance but then you conservatives would say he was milking the system. Make up your fuckin minds! Do you want the lazy to work or what?

The_Reasonable_Lib said:
Funny how you rail against people spitting out talking points then turn around and do the same yourself. I’ll tell you what; go to the hospital without insurance and see what happens to you. I can tell you for a FACT that you won’t get admitted to the Cleveland Clinic. They’ll direct the ambulance to Metro in a heartbeat if you don’t have insurance.

I have been to the hospital without insurance. They took care of me and billed me. I made payments. Duh.
YOU don’t know what you are talking about.

skyfet said:
You must be out of your mind, are you kidding me or just pulling my legs. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5298034http://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/enforcement/cmp/patient_dumping.asphttp://www.buzzle.com/articles/los-angeles-police-hospital-dumped-homeless-patients-on-skid-row.htmlhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/17/60minutes/main2823079.shtmlhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-15-skid-row_x.htm

Out of my mind huh?

First link is to a POSSIBLE espisode. Key word POSSIBLE. The article states that they have been investigating for 3 months and have made no arrests. Also uncontained in your bullshit was that this is smack dab in the center of liberal Cali. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for your side of the argument.

I just scanned the second one and of the three “cases” listed for 2010 (not exactly a chronic problem huh???) NONE were of dumping. One dealt with a guy dying while in the waiting room waiting for care……gee that won’t happen when everybody gets free and no new doctors are trained huh?

One dealt with a guy leaving cuz he was seen quick enough and he died outside.

Sorry but so far you are 0 for 2.

I am working on the rest.

Pablo said:
And that’s what happens when you put the government of charge of everything. You lose all your other options.

What on earth are you talking about? The anger was not so much directed at the policy is was at the pledge that Nick Clegg made before the election which attracted thousands of voters to his party. It was not a question whether we could pay the higher tuition fees but more about the lies that were told in order to get votes and win power. I’m pretty sure America has the endemic problem of politicians lying to win elections.

Look I think some people on this forum believe in everything that Fox News says. Britain is an industrialised nation with a very promising future and not the cliches of a failed socialist nation in decline with ballooning welfare bills. It’s quite ironic the very network pushing these cliches in America is owned by a company that makes massive profits in the UK.

Plus, if you look at US History, government has had a role in providing the foundations for your success. If you analyse the past 50 years, the provision of college to the masses has enabled your country to be a continued economic superpower where other resource abundant countries have failed. Hence, this notion that a democratically elected Government is actively seeking to subvert the constitution even though you have a constitution constraining their actions is just madness.

VoiceofReason said:
Out of my mind huh?

First link is to a POSSIBLE espisode. Key word POSSIBLE. The article states that they have been investigating for 3 months and have made no arrests. Also uncontained in your bullshit was that this is smack dab in the center of liberal Cali. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for your side of the argument.

I just scanned the second one and of the three “cases” listed for 2010 (not exactly a chronic problem huh???) NONE were of dumping. One dealt with a guy dying while in the waiting room waiting for care……gee that won’t happen when everybody gets free and no new doctors are trained huh?

One dealt with a guy leaving cuz he was seen quick enough and he died outside.

Sorry but so far you are 0 for 2.

I am working on the rest.

You Sir! said it doesn’t happen here in the US. I just provided you with info that it does happen. Don’t try to change the subject.

TrollJuice said:
Wow! And you are calling other people idiots!

Just how dumb are you? Dispute what I said.

My healthcare…………….No paperwork, no forms to fill out, NO bills all for $25 a month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJG2iyO2CE&feature=related

skyfet said:
to be talking about being stupidity.

What did you say, stupid?

MiddleRoader said:
He has two kids he has to pay for medical expenses. He feels his kids are more important than he. And don’t tell me he is irresponible for having kids on his low income. He had had a job that was decent pay and benefits until he got laid off. He did not sit around and collect unemployment forever, he went out to find a job and work. Fact is, he now works two jobs. Neither provides insurance. You know if he had stayed on unemployment he probably could have gotten medical assistance but then you conservatives would say he was milking the system. Make up your fuckin minds! Do you want the lazy to work or what?

The question was whether your friend is at all responsible for his own health. I don’t see an answer in there.

Stephen Hogan said:
Tell that to family that decides to forgo treatment for a chronic illness so they can continue to afford their house. Or maybe you’d like to talk to the parents of a child who cannot be covered by insurance due to a pre-existing condition. Thankfully, due to the health care law, the latter no longer occurs.

You are another ignorant fool.

My health care, NO co-pay, no forms to fill out, no bills, no limit on doctor visits, don’t care about pre-existing conditions for $25 a month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJG2iyO2CE&feature=related

skyfet said:
You Sir! said it doesn’t happen here in the US. I just provided you with info that it does happen. Don’t try to change the subject.

That what happened? A patient was dumped on the sidewalk by the hospital???? Which was what YOU claimed originally and with which I took umbrage. You even stated they were done so in the hospital garb.

Don’t YOU try to change the subject.

Back on topic……I have read through the rst of the second link and in NONE of the 18 cases listed (an in a country with 315+ million people thats a real epidemic huh??)dealt with patients being dumped off by hospital staff. Most dealt with ramifications from not providing “medical screenings” in a timely fashion that led to something bad. Gee but that doesn’t FURTHER bolster my argument huh???????

A couple mention refusing transfer of a patient. AND not all dealt with really bad consequences either. Some went to another hospital and were treated.

Sorry but you remain 0 for 2. Perusing the rest………….

skyfet said:
You Sir! said it doesn’t happen here in the US. I just provided you with info that it does happen.

Patient dumping? Why, yes! It sure does. Not so much since Moochelle moved to DC, though.

Pablo said:
The question was whether your friend is at all responsible for his own health. I don’t see an answer in there.

Only because you don’t want to see one or don’t like the one I gave.

gordonbloyershow said:
You are another ignorant fool. My health care, NO co-pay, no forms to fill out, no bills, no limit on doctor visits, don’t care about pre-existing conditions for $25 a month. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJG2iyO2CE&feature=related

You didn’t answer my question. Is it medicare or what?

MiddleRoader said:
Only because you don’t want to see one or don’t like the one I gave.

If i had to guess, I’d say you’re leaning toward no, he isn’t. Is that right, or is there a yes in there that I missed?

The third link….the one from Buzzle….is actually a blog and has little to no credibility as far as I’m concerned but even then it states that those dropped off were being returned to the locations listed on their admitting slips.

So not only were they admitted, they were given a ride “home” as it were.

0 for 3.

Next……..

gordonbloyershow said:
What did you say, stupid?

You Sir! should be the last on earth to call people Stupid! Capiche?

Odd that someone who names his cat after FDR would refer to gagaku.

The fourth link.from 60 Minutes of all places lol) is another posting of the one from the first link is only speculation. Again…….

They have been investigating for months and this much of a slam dunk SURELY would have generated an arrest or two by now right???????????

If it even did happen….this is one case. ONE. And it is in Cali…..where we all know the libs are trying to build their socialist democracy model for the rest of us and does NOTHING to bolster the contention that this type of HC model is a good one.

One more to go…….but you are 0 for 4 dude.

MiddleRoader said:
Gordo in another post way back you admitted to collecting SS. So then is your 25.00 payment part of medicare? If so, you need to STFU, cause then your getting goverment run healthcare.

Make another stupid comment. It has NOTHING to do with Medicare. Did you know you can be on SS and not qualify for Medicare? Do you know anything about anything?

My health care is a private organization. They don’t accept Medicare or any insurance. It is a PRIVATE plan. LaPorte Indiana just made a deal for ALL of their employees. They and their families can go to the clinic anytime and as often as they want. There are NO bills The city pays one fee for the year. It is the answer to our health care costs and will drive costs down and they don’t need government interference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJG2iyO2CE&feature=related

0 fior 5 as the last link from USA Today is yet another rehashing of the orginal story you linked to.

EPIC FAIL.

But I know how you got into trouble……you were boning up on your liberal talking points of the day from NPR and saw that poor old gal wandering the streets and then this topic comes about and you think BOOYAH!!!! you have something on the folks with a differing opinion.

Perhaps less keyboard and more monitor will serve you better.

Remember!! A closed mouth gathers NO feet!!

Pablo said:
Hmmmm….

DAMMIT Pablo…..STOP MAKING SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pablo said:
The question was whether your friend is at all responsible for his own health. I don’t see an answer in there.

Have you ever had to make that choice? You or your kids? I’m guessing no. Things are not always black and white. Yeah, he should have gone to the dr and got billed the 125.00 and he probably will if it happens again. He tried to weather the storm, not thinking his condition wouldn’t improve. The fact still remains he would have had fundamental care with your so called Obamacare and he wouldn’t have had to feel like he needed to gamble.

MiddleRoader said:
Exactly! Not unless you are on your death bed. A co-worker of mine has been battleing (sp) cancer for a few years now. Luckily he has insurance from our employer plus he is a veteran and can utilize the VA coverage. He showed me his paperwork that is well over 1 million dollars so far. He’d have been dead by now with no coverage. And they talk about death panels?

Anecdote does NOT equal data.

sorry……..

MiddleRoader said:
You didn’t answer my question. Is it medicare or what?

When you get a brain let me know. It has NOTHING to do with Medicare.

The problem with you libs is that you can only think of health care being taken care of by insurance or the government. That is why you never see a private solution. Did you ever hear of a contract for health care?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJG2iyO2CE&feature=related

MiddleRoader said:
Gordo in another post way back you admitted to collecting SS. So then is your 25.00 payment part of medicare? If so, you need to STFU, cause then your getting goverment run healthcare.

Actually if he has been a working American for his adult life he has paid in PLENTY to both Medicare and SS. So you can either refund his money or give it back to him a lttle at a time and in goods and services like you promised him.

It’s not his fault that Dems raided those funds years ago and have done little to nothing in the ensuing years to stave off this predicament.

Nice try tho.

skyfet said:
Capiche?

Did you just get off the boat?

MiddleRoader said:
Yeah, he should have gone to the dr and got billed the 125.00 and he probably will if it happens again.

That would be the smart thing to do whenever that situation arises.

The fact still remains he would have had fundamental care with your so called Obamacare and he wouldn’t have had to feel like he needed to gamble.

How much would that Obamacare cost him? Premiums, co-pays, deductible, prescriptions… He’d likely spend a lot more than that $125.00 to get the very same service.

olivergannon said:
What I was trying to say was that there were protests over the broken promises from the Lib Dems. However, these were hijacked by anarchists and gangs intent on violence and that is where you saw the violence between the police and protesters. As a non-participating student myself, the anger was not so much at the policy but a new generation of first time voters being lied to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/10/15yearold-goes-off-on-bri_n_795180.html

Anarchist…..gang banger?

VoiceofReason said:
It’s not his fault that Dems raided those funds years ago and have done little to nothing in the ensuing years to stave off this predicament.

It’s also not his fault that he’s had no choice but to pay into those funds on a promise of service later.

skyfet said:
I think you should get you kids to help you search on the net. lol, your search failed utterly. Trying to find something that isn’t there. Your search provides the opposite of your lame attempt to debunk something that isn’t there.

You REALLY shouldn’t bag on somebody’s search skills.

Just sayin’……………

VoiceofReason said:
Actually if he has been a working American for his adult life he has paid in PLENTY to both Medicare and SS. So you can either refund his money or give it back to him a lttle at a time and in goods and services like you promised him. It’s not his fault that Dems raided those funds years ago and have done little to nothing in the ensuing years to stave off this predicament. Nice try tho.

Hey he’s the one that said that he wanted to see the dismantling of SS and Medicare in a post elsewhere. I have no problem with him collecting.

Pablo said:
It’s also not his fault that he’s had no choice but to pay into those funds on a promise of service later.

Amen. Talk about being lied to.

I guess this gives our blue hairs the right to riot and burn shit…..that is if we are to listen to the appologists from across the pond…….

MiddleRoader said:
Hey he’s the one that said that he wanted to see the dismantling of SS and Medicare in a post elsewhere. I have no problem with him collecting.

Hey you are the one telling him to STFU for bitching about something HE PAID FOR.

Perhaps somebody else should have the tall cup of STFU?????

Pablo said:
That would be the smart thing to do whenever that situation arises. How much would that Obamacare cost him? Premiums, co-pays, deductible, prescriptions… He’d likely spend a lot more than that $125.00 to get the very same service.

To be honest, I’m not totally up to speed with that bill. Is that 125.00 per person? or for the whole family?

VoiceofReason said:
Hey you are the one telling him to STFU for bitching about something HE PAID FOR. Perhaps somebody else should have the tall cup of STFU?????

No, I said IF it was SS/Medicare he should stfu. Reading comprehension is your problem.

MiddleRoader said:
He has two kids he has to pay for medical expenses. He feels his kids are more important than he. And don’t tell me he is irresponible for having kids on his low income. He had had a job that was decent pay and benefits until he got laid off. He did not sit around and collect unemployment forever, he went out to find a job and work. Fact is, he now works two jobs. Neither provides insurance. You know if he had stayed on unemployment he probably could have gotten medical assistance but then you conservatives would say he was milking the system. Make up your fuckin minds! Do you want the lazy to work or what?

Actually he can get medical and for his kids too. Free.

Sorry but even empassioned anecdotes don’t get it done. And you are wrong to boot.

MiddleRoader said:
No, I said IF it was SS/Medicare he should stfu. Reading comprehension is your problem.

I don’t see the problem. In the statement you just used your tiny little fists to furiously pound out you even said it again…….

He should STFU about something he paid for.

What are YOU reading here you simply cannot fathom?

gordonbloyershow said:
When you get a brain let me know. It has NOTHING to do with Medicare. The problem with you libs is that you can only think of health care being taken care of by insurance or the government. That is why you never see a private solution. Did you ever hear of a contract for health care? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJG2iyO2CE&feature=related

If I understood that video, certain other procedures would cost extra. And I assume from another of your posts it does not include hospitalization. As you said they billed you and you made payments.

MiddleRoader said:
To be honest, I’m not totally up to speed with that bill. Is that 125.00 per person? or for the whole family?

It depends on the specific plan, but the single person deductible is probably $100 and for a family, it’s a few hundred. Toss in a $20 office visit co-pay and a $20 prescription co-pay, and you’re well over $100 even for a single person, and that’s before you get to the cost of the premiums, which your friend will soon be mandated to pay. $125 is peanuts up against that.

VoiceofReason said:
I don’t see the problem. In the statement you just used your tiny little fists to furiously pound out you even said it again……. He should STFU about something he paid for. What are YOU reading here you simply cannot fathom?

LOL, your the one pounding your fists.

Again, I don’t give a rats ass if he uses it. He paid in he has all rights to use it. Again, he said previously elsewhere on here he wants SS/Medicare dismantled. Therefore if he is collecting and using it he should stfu. Jesus, what here is it u simply cannot fathom?

Pablo said:
It depends on the specific plan, but the single person deductible is probably $100 and for a family, it’s a few hundred. Toss in a $20 office visit co-pay and a $20 prescription co-pay, and you’re well over $100 even for a single person, and that’s before you get to the cost of the premiums, which your friend will soon be mandated to pay. $125 is peanuts up against that.

Does that include hospitalization? Cause it does matter when it comes to that and a 20,000 dollar or more bill.

Thank you for the run down. I admit I need to read up more about it.

MiddleRoader said:
LOL, your the one pounding your fists. Again, I don’t give a rats ass if he uses it. He paid in he has all rights to use it. Again, he said previously elsewhere on here he wants SS/Medicare dismantled. Therefore if he is collecting and using it he should stfu. Jesus, what here is it u simply cannot fathom?

Why can’t he call for it to be dismantled?

Sounds kind of like he owns part of it and has a say in how it’s run……..right?

I don’t use it and would like to see it dismantled. At least in terms of what comes out the other side of said “dismantling” being an actual WORKING model instead of the unsustainable clusterfuck we have now.

MiddleRoader said:
Thank you for the run down. I admit I need to read up more about it.

and will. So, if you don’t want to give me anymore info, it’s understandable.

MiddleRoader said:
He paid in he has all rights to use it. Again, he said previously elsewhere on here he wants SS/Medicare dismantled. Therefore if he is collecting and using it he should stfu. Jesus, what here is it u simply cannot fathom?

Your logic. If he paid for it and uses it, he can’t critique it, or want it changed? He can’t want it dismantled, because he’s getting what he was forced to pay for? Why not?

VoiceofReason said:
I don’t use it and would like to see it dismantled. At least in terms of what comes out the other side of said “dismantling” being an actual WORKING model instead of the unsustainable clusterfuck we have now.

Reform is one thing. Getting rid of it altogether is another.

MiddleRoader said:
and will. So, if you don’t want to give me anymore info, it’s understandable.

It will be tough for him to give you specifc details….Cass Sustein is still writing up the regs the rest of us will follow.

MiddleRoader said:
Does that include hospitalization? Cause it does matter when it comes to that and a 20,000 dollar or more bill.

But we’re talking about the office visit that would have prevented the hospital stay, aren’t we?

MiddleRoader said:
Reform is one thing. Getting rid of it altogether is another.

Sometimes you have to knock the house down and start over.

Not sure we aren’t there now.

Do we have to be completely bankrupt due to these two programs before we try something else or ascrap the system all together and go with a diff plan?

I remember this from Jeremy Rifkin’s 2004 book The European Dream:

“two-thirds of Americans believe that success is not outside their control. In Germany, 68% answered the exact opposite way…. By more than six to one, Americans believe failure is the result of the individual, not society… 71% of Americans believe people can escape from poverty. Only 40% of Europeans believe the same….Asked why people are wealthy, 64 percent of Americans say [it is] because of personal drive, willingness to take risks, and hard work and initiative.” And why do others fail? When asked that question, 64 percent of Americans cited a lack of thrift, 53 percent ascribed the failure (at least in part) to a lack of effort, and a like percentage said that failure was due to lack of ability. ….. but “in Europe, a majority in every country – with the exception of the U.K., Czech Republic, and Slovakia – ‘believe that forces outside of an individual’s personal control determine success.’”
Great Britain Will fall, Just ask any imam!

VoiceofReason said:
I don’t use it and would like to see it dismantled.

I think we need to wind it down, and then dismantle it. And sell what’s left for scrap.

Pablo said:
Your logic. If he paid for it and uses it, he can’t critique it, or want it changed? He can’t want it dismantled, because he’s getting what he was forced to pay for? Why not?

Again, reform is one thing, ridding it altogether is another. And I asked IF he was using medicare. I didn’t assume he was. And if he was, it was a government run health care. And 25.00 a month sounded like a good deal for that, although I do know it costs more for healthcare under SS Medicare. Its like 100.00 and something.

Pablo said:
But we’re talking about the office visit that would have prevented the hospital stay, aren’t we?

Yes, and I agree that would have been the proper thing to do in light that it was a more serious problem than just a bad cold. We all make mistakes and most assuredly when we have kids in these type of situations.

Pablo said:
I think we need to wind it down, and then dismantle it. And sell what’s left for scrap.

Oh don’t get me wrong Pablo…I am not for jerking the rug out form under folks who have been extorted out of their hard earned money for all their lives.

But what we have ain’t working and we have to move. And the longer we wait to move the more drastic the move will be.

VoiceofReason said:
Actually he can get medical and for his kids too. Free.

Perhaps your right. Perhaps he does not know this as unemployment and having to work two jobs to take care of his family is all new to him. And the government does not exactly advertise their services. And I would not know of this help as my kids are all adults now and no need for me to know. I will pass on this information.

VoiceofReason said:
Do we have to be completely bankrupt due to these two programs before we try something else or ascrap the system all together and go with a diff plan?

So we leave a lot of people out in the cold while we reform it? Pretty harsh don’t ya think?

VoiceofReason said:
Oh don’t get me wrong Pablo…I am not for jerking the rug out form under folks who have been extorted out of their hard earned money for all their lives. But what we have ain’t working and we have to move. And the longer we wait to move the more drastic the move will be.

Sorry missed this before I answered your post.

MiddleRoader said:
Perhaps your right. Perhaps he does not know this as unemployment and having to work two jobs to take care of his family is all new to him. And the government does not exactly advertise their services. And I would not know of this help as my kids are all adults now and no need for me to know. I will pass on this information.

For his kids……

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Children's_Health_Insurance_Program

VoiceofReason said:
But what we have ain’t working and we have to move.

Yup.

MiddleRoader said:
Sorry missed this before I answered your post.

I don’t think we are worlds apart with regard to this venue.

VoiceofReason said:
For his kids…… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Children’s_Health_Insurance_Program

Thank you for the link.

There is also TANF with replaced AFDC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TANF

Also WIC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIC

MiddleRoader said:
Thank you for the link.

My pleasure. I hope it helps your friend and his children.

also……and I know this isn’t for healthcare as were some of the other links I provided….but if food costs can be reduced then perhaps some of these folks incomes can pay for insurance.

I don’t know about where your friend lives but I live in a VERY small mid western town and go to one of the larger churches in town. Not big by any stretch of the imagination…….I moved here from Cali……home of largess squared…….but the biggest in this small town……about 750 or so in the congregation.

We have a food bank every Tuesday and Thursday and NEVER ask anything other than to have good day.

I am CERTAIN this exists beyond this little podunk town.

The argument that the UK’s life expectancy is due to gun control is fictitious. The truth is, America’s infant mortality rate accounts for the largest discrepancy. And that is accountable to heavy drug use in women in the inner city poor.

gordonbloyershow said:
Nobody in this country goes without health care. .

Now, you have made some STUPID statements in the past, but that one takes the cake.

gordonbloyershow said:
I have been to the hospital without insurance. They took care of me and billed me. .

How very LIBERAL of them. Just how many paper cuts HAVE you had over the last few year?

MiddleRoader said:
If I understood that video, certain other procedures would cost extra. And I assume from another of your posts it does not include hospitalization. As you said they billed you and you made payments.

You and others claim that people don’t go to the doctor because they can’t afford it. I did that. It would cost me over $100 everytime I would go to the doctor. If they gave me a prescription then I would have to return another look and maybe a refill, another $100. This program ends that cycle for $25 a month. If you go to the doctor when you should you will save yourself from those costly hospital stays and ER visits. That will save billions of dollars won’t it?
Buy hospital care insurance, it is far cheaper than insurance that covers all your doctor visits.

modans1955 said:
Now, you have made some STUPID statements in the past, but that one takes the cake.

Why don’t you give me a list of people that get turned away? YOU are the stupid one.

CAconservative said:
The argument that the UK’s life expectancy is due to gun control is fictitious. The truth is, America’s infant mortality rate accounts for the largest discrepancy. And that is accountable to heavy drug use in women in the inner city poor.

Ann Coulter has written a column that goes into great detail on this subject. All these countries have different ways to calculat those stats. In other words we are comparing apples to oranges. They lie.

gordonbloyershow:
Yes, you’re right. Japan for instance, with the highest longevity numbers, does not add their still-birth numbers in the WHO findings. As a good friend of mine from England says, “our health care system in the UK is great, as long as you don’t have to use it”!

Something is downright wrong when there are 140 comments and not one has mentioned that Imogen is drop-dead gorgeous and wins the debate simply by virtue of her looks. Her accent is quite sexy, too. What? I am man, I notice these things. I’ll go back and analyze what she said later.

gordonbloyershow said:
The difference in life expectancy between England and U.S. has nothing to do with health care. It has to do with life style and the fact we are engaged in two wars.

I’m staying out of this debate about Hannity but I have to pause – and shudder – at such a statement as the one I’ve quoted above. For the two wars that the US is engaged in to have a serious impact on life expectancy here, a country of over 300 million, the casualty numbers would have to be very high. It suggests to me that the writer does not have an understanding of the number of casualties suffered in the last decade of war.

According to icasualties.org, the total number of US military casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001 is 5,864

To give you some perspective, in three years 53,000 troops were killed in the Korean War, and in sixteen years, over 58,000 were killed in the Vietnam war.

Any American with a modicum of civic responsibility ought to know those numbers, or at least a reasonable estimate. Whether you’re going to support or oppose a war, you’re making irresponsible decisions if you don’t understand the basic facts and history of America at war.

moishe pippick said:
Whether you’re going to support or oppose a war, you’re making irresponsible decisions if you don’t understand the basic facts and history of America at war.

You like most libs have no idea what you are talking about. War casualties are only an example ot the different way that the other countries doctor their figures. I am not here to write a book. I assume someone has a brain and understands that it is an example.
You need to try using some other name next time so we won’t remember you posted this nonsense.

Actually I would not call this an “argumentative train wreck.” Given the nature of Hannity’s show – it’s intended to highlight and reinforce conservative views – this exchange is actually fairly substantive. I can remember a time when almost all of the Fox punditry shows brought on lily-livered liberals who couldn’t argue their way out of a paper bag. Webber is a worthy opponent with facts and ideas that a discerning open-minded viewer (assuming Hannity has a few of those) could use in forming an opinion. Whether she prevails or offers more facts is debatable. Hannity offers some facts and even if those facts are disputable she doesn’t succeed in making him eat his words. Of course Hannity is all about labeling this or that approach as socialism and declaring it all a failure. This is patently absurd, hence her frustration. Interestingly he cites Ireland as an example of socialism even though McCain cited Ireland as an example of neo-liberal economics (pure capitalism) during the election and offered that we could take a lesson from them. The simple truth is that all of the governments around the world are having problems because tax revenues have been decimated by the recession brought on by free market chicanery. The degree of socialism is not the marker for their current success or failure, even though overspending clearly is in certain examples. Under taxing is a contributor in others. America, who last raised taxes (a few points in one bracket) back in 1993 appears to be drunk on tax-cuts – and I don’t just mean tax cuts for the wealthy. We’re out of kilter.

This recession is the result of the lack of “governmental oversight of the free market”. And in some cases, those in the government being in bed with the free-market criminals. In the U.S. we have documented cases of those in Washington actually defending those in the Fannie-Mae mortgage debacle who are still serving in Congress?!! What I saw on the Hannity show was two people relying of faulty information. They may have both been sincere in their arguments but, their arguments were less than factual. Socialism is a failure, a dismal failure anywhere it’s been tried. That’s fact! What’s out of kilter here is the size, and obligations of this government. What’s absurd is a government, local, state, and federal combined, who are taxing at levels of over 50%! What’s disgusting is a government that has so over-reached their Constitutional authority that any pretense of relying on Constitutional authority isn’t even discussed! The separation of powers in Washington is almost non-existent. We’re getting very close to an Oligarchy.

What was overlooked in this interview was that Imogen Lloyd Webber looked really fuckin’ hot. Imogen’s always pretty, but goddamn did she have it goin’ on that night. She needs to look like that whenever she’s on Red Eye.

The Real Royal King said:
Life expetancy higher in the UK.
Score 1 for Ms. Webber.

A fallacious lie, courtesy of government-run health care. In many instances what would be considered a live birth in the United States is considered a stillborn baby — therefore not counting against the life expectancy average — in countries that have Socialist government-run health care such as the UK. That’s what governments do, they lie. When the statistic don’t back up their claims, they just change what the statistic measure even if they’re not even remotely practical.

Gordonbloyer says: This woman is an idiot. She just repeats democrat talking points. Nobody in this country goes without health care. The people in this country get treated faster even without insurance than those in England that are on the socialist plan.

I reply: it is true that one on in this country is turned down for health care even without insurance but the cost is bancrupting the citizens! Case in point: routine colonoscopy, which every MD recommends for patients over 50. My insurance company “allowed” the hospital to charge me 3,000 for this routine procedure includins a $250 charge for using the recovery room for 15 minutes. It “allowed” an anesthesiologist to charge me 1,200 for the procedure. All in all the routine procedure, which my ins co supposedly “covered” ended up in a co pay for ME of almost $4,500. If I were an illegal, or a non home owner, I could walk away from that bill. Because I own a home, I have to pay, and the hospital was non negotiable on the amount. This was after I’d already paid monthly premiums to the ins co of $600 a month. People don’t kick and scream about this because MOST people are covered by an employer. Bottom line: we desperately need health care reform inthis country.

Fox, never to be confused with Facts.

THE SOVIET UNION ENDED IN 1981 HANNITY DOES NOT FOLLOW HISTORY …STALIN SOVIET ENDED AFTER HIS STALIN DEATH HANNITY DOES NOT KNOW HIS WORLD HISTORY….HOW SAD AND PATHETIC

Anyone who watches Fixed News, unfair and biased has PVS, persistent vegetative state. Just look at a picture of Terri Shaivo and George Bush in that class room on 9/11 and you will know exactly what I am talking about. Lights on, nobody home. Only TARDS like Sarah Palin’s retared kid watch Faux News!!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

I would butter her English muffin…

Guess they saw the bleach blonde hair

If the deficit in the US is a real issue, then cutting military spending and medicare reform absolutely must be part of solution. Those two expenditures are two-thirds of our deficit.

I’d hit it.

gobarbara said:
Guess they saw the bleach blonde hair

Yep. And after the show they invited Webber to become Fox commentator.

If what she says is true – that 93% of the people in the UK are happy with (or at least support) the NHS that’s certainly worth noting.

While many (perhaps most) Americans seem relatively unfazed that so many of their fellow ctizens don’t have health care, it is an indisputable fact that most of western Europe is extremely puzzled and incredulous at this statistic.

Thanks for being one of the few true counter balances on Fox, you know someone who rejects the random spewing of numbers of Hannity by challenging.

BTW, weren’t the GOP just spewing on at about how wonderful Ireland was by cutting their corporate tax (that directly led to their recent collapse).

Hannity, you’re a patronizing PRICK. Take a breath and get your facts straight.

Sean, you should run for President on that platform. If you never provide something, then they can’t get mad at you for taking it away since you never provided it. If Bush would have never given tax cuts then people wouldn’t be upset about losing those same tax cuts. Sean, you are a genius, in your own mind that is. Your viewers can’t be upset with you for not giving them facts since you’ve never given them the facts. A winning formula indeed.

“all of which was dismissed pretty convincingly by Webber’s more concrete statistic that “life expectancy is longer in the UK than [in the US].”

Anybody who uses this argument shows that he or she is not that bright. The life expectancy differences between developed countries are mostly from different life styles in different countries. The highest life expectancy country, despite its stressing as hell work life, is Japan, their obesity rate is 3.2%. For United States the obesity rate is 30.6%, almost 10 times higher, and much higher than 23% for Great Britain.

So it would be miracle if with those kind of differences Americans would still have higher life expectancy than Great Britain.

Hannity is a rabid attack dog.

Britain has a greater life expectancy than in the US? They don’t have 15% of Mexico’s population living there either.

I guess she, and you, don’t read the UK media. The UK media itself will tell you the state of the healthcare system and it ain’t pretty. Yes, super long waits are common, expensive medication is withheld from granny, but, you would have to pay attention to the UK itself, not some bleached blond bimbo who thinks she as creds because her daddy is “someone”…who? I’ve watched and partially listed to her and she just talks the party line, Uberprogressive Lefty line….the same people working throughout the Middle East to bring it down!! Don’t depend on others to tell you the truth, get it for yourselves!!

Paladin said:
Hannity is a rabid attack dog.

Like tingly legged Mathews, now defunct Olbermann, Schultz, O’Donnell who can’t ever stop after the last word and #3 Piers? Please…I know it feels like a rabid dog is after you, but when you hear the truth, it is your own skin tingling not the fear from the dog!

I like her and hope she’s on a lot more. I watch her when I can on Red Eye.

I was talking about Imogen in that last comment….

” Only TARDS like Sarah Palin’s retared kid watch Faux News!!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE”

——————–

Yeah,.. the same kind of soft spoken compassion and tolerance we have come to expect from the lefts minions. Screaming about the right having one voice in cable news, and they just explode in a raging fit. That surveys show FOX is actually far more balanced than any of the other news stations, but the left just sticks it’s fingers in it’s ears and pretends that doesn’t happen. Balance to the left is 3 liberals debating how evil conservatives are.

FOX viewers cut across the spectrum, with as many democrats as conservatives watching. You’d never get the left to admit that however.

Sean Hannity and the Fox not-News liars please explain this http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/, so private health care which is in fact subsidised by public health care, so what is the real problem. Is it that Republicans actually want to see poor people who can not afford health care die.

If Hannity wants to argue socialism, let’s see him try to pull the Social Security check from any of his admirers.
They would slowly gum him to death.
“I earned ALL that money!”

From Teemu
“Anybody who uses this argument shows that he or she is not that bright. The life expectancy differences between developed countries are mostly from different life styles in different countries. The highest life expectancy country, despite its stressing as hell work life, is Japan, their obesity rate is 3.2%. For United States the obesity rate is 30.6%, almost 10 times higher, and much higher than 23% for Great Britain.”

Well Teemu thats why you use infant mortality per 1000 births. 6.06 for US and 4.62 for UK. So UK is better at that and life expectancy cover 100% of their citizens for 8% of GDP against our 15%.. So who is not so bright? Stop cherry picking statistics.

Yes, yes… of course… she’s very attractive… blah, blah, blah (that was for all the commentators who had only that to say after this clip) .

Now the meat of it: What a fatuous ass Hannity is. “You’re missing my point… you’re missing my point” As if he HAD a valid point to make. Do people get disgruntled when progress is reversed? Yes, of course they do. We get it. But the point that’s valid here, by far, is the one Imogen was trying to slip past the fog of Sean’s blather: The UK and those other countries he cites as examples of failed socialist experiments are (a) not wholly socialist (b) not failing at the %s he claims and (c) radically more successful that the U.S. when it comes to general health of the populace, smaller % poverty rate, quality of education, and general quality of life. Anybody who has travelled more than two weeks outside of the U.S. has come to that realization.

What’s more, why such a lack of civility is accepted as “good” television programming is beyond me. He’s flat out rude. He basically sat her in the chair, hit here with talking points about life in the U.K. as he thinks he understands it, and then basically did his worst to try to prevent her from responding to it. If this is representative of the American “spirit” then yes, indeed, sometimes it’s embarrassing to be an American.

It makes me sick how the right is trying to scare the crap out of the people about the nonsense that universal health care is socialism and it is somehow evil. Tell that to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and all of Europe, many of whom, especially Germany who have one of the most efficient delivery health care systems in the world and at the fraction of the cost of the corrupt US system which has these corrupt politicians in their pockets. Health care should be a moral right for every individual, not a privelage, like a a license to drive, as many on the right argue. It’s a tragedy that a nation which is one of the first to provide aid and assistance to countires who are devasted by earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters, can’t find a way to take care of our own. It is downright immoral. But, it is all about the bottom line and capitalistic greed which Wall Street and big corporations have profited from on the backs of the middle class.

Nice porno facial expression! But it is a sad waste on extremist programming like Hannity.

I don’t get it, how Fox news can just lie and lie and lie and lie but its Ok and even worse there is a segment of our nation that listens to all those lies and thinks they are facts. I take it as this, we want to debate an issue with these people that lie or believe the lies, they choose not to research for themselves and go only on the lies, we have science based facts and studies to debate our points but then they use lies to debate theirs. But to me thats like one side debating using facts and the other side is sitting on the floor playing in their own Poop! Really its like trying to debate a 2yr old about national polices, its a joke and its dumbing down our nation and its citizens. But thats what they wont now isn’t it! Ignorance is bliss, until they enslave your ignorant butts! Canada is right in not letting Fox News come to their nation, all it would do is create more ignorance, Fox has created about all we can stand in this world!

Love watching Sean Hannity getting punked by his own guest. Honestly, these Fox News talking heads are so friggin’ asinine. It’s a one way argument for them. They honestly do not have the intellectually capacity to deal with facts, and instead rely on the fiction handed down to them from the front office for them to parrot to all the idiots who salivate at watching this network.

Hey, conservatives; WTF is wrong with you? Are y’all that stupid that you can’t discern fact from fiction? Can you not have the balls to call out a spade when it blatantly pisses down your intellectual gullet (assuming you have one)?

Man up, conservatives. Stop prescribing to the Fox News idiocy. Think for yourselves. Grow a spine. Stop prescribing to your fascist network. They make money off of your STUPIDITY.

You poor shit for brains libturds are too much. Go drink some more toilet water and save the planet while the rest of us laugh at your dumb asses. Pitiful bunch of gimme pricks.

PARTYTIME…………….???????????????? CONSERVATIVE???????????? REALLY????
WOW……….CAN’T SEE HOW…….BUT, OKAY, IF YOU SAY SO….

YES, DOOKIE, MAKE LOTS OF MONEY FROM CONSERVATIVES, BUT THEN THEY HAVE
PLENTY TO THROW AWAY ON THE PUKE SPEWERS.

GOD HELP US, THEY ARE SO BLIND. BUT THEY HAVE THE STONES TO KILL US ALL.
THAT’S WHAT WILL HAPPEN. STONED TO DEATH BY CONSERVATIVES.

This woman is such an idiot, she obviously lying.

Hannity is too much of a kiss ass, he should have ripped that bitch to shreds.