Mediaite Interview: W. Kamau Bell on Richard Spencer, the KKK and Identity Politics

M: You mentioned it the Richard Spencer thing and it’s particularly interesting to me, I guess identity politics are such an interesting thing right now. Where does identity politics fall on your show in terms of bringing light to people who self-identify by specific cultures?

K: Since before I’ve been aware of who I am in the world, once I realized I wasn’t just a kid, I was like, “oh I’m a black boy and a black being and a black man and black teenage boy and a black man.” So the idea that somebody just tells me that’s identity politics I was like, no this is survival. You have to know how the world sees or else you’re gonna find yourself in some sort of “but officer I didn’t do anything, I don’t understand why you’re handcuffing me to oh, I understand what’s happening here.” It doesn’t make it better but it gives it some context to- like when I was 15 and got pulled over in my mom’s new Ford Taurus, a very nice car in that era and I understood what was happening even though I didn’t do anything wrong. I could sort of sit there and go because I’m black I’m driving a car, and I’m not 15, I’m 16 I’m sorry I don’t think that will be an issue. I’m 16 driving my mom’s car. So now people are sort of like calling it identity politics. I’m like, fine, call it whatever it is but you’re a Muslim woman wearing hijab walking around any city, you need to know how the world sees you and what that means. It’s white people. It’s white Americans that get to go, “this is identity politics.” No this is survival. This is real life.

M: So how do you feel about Richard Spencer, he’s basically playing identity politics to some degree. He is a provocateur whose looking for getting attention. Explain what was your core feeling having walked away from that interview? What are your regrets or what would you have wished you had done differently?

K: The question is, you know. Maybe you know he is a joke, but he’s also a joke who showed up with burning torches with his friends. I’m sure the people who saw that with didn’t found that to be a joke. It’s like a baby with a shotgun, it’s funny, it also can kill you. I feel like we live in the baby with a shotgun era of this country. A lot of things that seemed funny, seemed ridiculous, also can also harm you. For me it’s like the thing that I want, that I think obviously the white people think Richard Spencer’s a joke, took their status more seriously as white people. So they can go wait a minute this guy is actually hurting us. In the same way that like all the other groups in this country like black people and Muslims, Arabs, Asians, Latinos understand their identity means something so that like a member of their group does something that’s like not good for the group and goes, “woah, woah, woah, woah, woah.” So that they’re like white people just let Richard Spencer  “Richard Spencer” all over the world and if they took their own identity that seriously, they would’ve been there instead of me being there.

M: As a former TV producer and I always find that you get a really good sound bite at the end of an interview, after everyone thinks the interview is over. I’m really curious after what we saw with you and Richard Spencer, when the cameras were turned off and the lights were off like did you guys shake hands, did you hug it out? Describe to me the interaction.

K: No pictures of me and Richard Spencer like arm and arm you know getting a good pic for the ‘gram. Those don’t exist. What you saw at the end of it was me saying literally thank you for sitting down and talking to me just cause like he could have said no and I appreciate the fact that he did sit down and talk to me while most people won’t sit down and talk to me and then I heard him talking to his people. He felt pretty good about the back and forth that we had and how it went on and I felt that he really sort said a lot of things that I didn’t know. The take on woman is what surprised me the most. And then we went our separate ways and believe me, we’d been there for hours. Me and the crew were like let’s get out of here. I’m always super aware of the fact that, you know I appreciate the fact that you let me make this TV with you and that you sort of showed up for this thing but this is not a game. We’re not all in showbiz together, you know. There’s a lot more of that from the people who you think disagree with each other in the media where actually afterwards they say, “let’s go get a drink.” Like it’s not a game.

M: Did you have any regrets, like “holy shit, I just have this guy an enormous platform to espouse his view” because, you gotta think that, for every twenty people that watch your show, there’s gotta be one that’s like “that guy Richard Spencer makes a lot of sense to me.” Do you have any of those regrets?

K: Well, no because I think it’s pretty clear. That’s the thing, it’s very who watched the commercial verses who watched the whole episode from the criticism and if you watched the whole episode it’s not like I end episode going I don’t know whose side to be on? The refugees or Richard Spencer? I’ll let you decide.

M: You were very clear on that.

K: If there is anything I regret is that the episode didn’t air live cause I feel like what happens now is that we shot it in November right after the election and by the time it airs, he had been punched in the face when we shot it. So people on some level see when I sit down and talk to Richard Spencer, and go “why didn’t you punch him in the face?” That wasn’t a meme yet. Otherwise I would have asked him about it. I think on some level I wish like this is the comedian, especially topical comedians, you kind of wish you can get out to the world as soon as it’s done cause you know the longer it sits on the shelf the more the art changes, so you know. I think it’s pretty clear. I understand people feeling their feelings about it but I feel like the thing that I really feel is that I wish those other people, the twenty people, one of those people that’s like “I like this guy.” I wish those other nineteen people could go out and talk to that other guy, talk to that twentieth guy. That’s what I wish.

M: Richard Spencer was in the news recently because he got into some conflict at the gym and somebody confronted him for being a racist,Nazi and he got kicked out of the gym. Some people are saying Richard Spencer should be allowed to work out at a gym and yet others think, “bullshit, if you’re gonna exceed societal norms” he should be confronted. Do you think Richard Spencer should be allowed to use the elliptical in peace or do you think it’s okay for people to confront him?

K: As a black teenager who was kicked out of record store when I was 15 just for being in the record store too long, even though I had not done anything and I was told never to come out again, I’m not gonna spend a lot of time speaking about Richard Spencer’s gym privileges. He’s gonna have to figure this out on his own.

This is an opinion piece. The views expressed in this article are those of just the author.