Did Fox News Call Media Matters Bluff Over $1 Million GOP Donation Ad? (Update)

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by Colby Hall | 9:13 am, August 25th, 2010

» 47 comments

Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, the parent company for Fox News, recently made a $1 million contribution to the Republican Governors Association, a partisan 527 designed to bolster GOP gubernatorial campaigns. Facing criticism, News Corp. responded by citing their support for the RGA’s “pro-business agenda”.

Progressive media watchdog group Media Matters responded by creating an ad critical of the donation, and requested airtime during The O’Reilly Factor on Fox News to broadcast the spot. But new allegations have come to light that question whether Media Matters was serious about running the ad as opposed to just generating attention – and possibly charitable donations – for itself.

On Tuesday, Greg Sargent reported, in the Washington Post‘s “Plum Line” blog, on their plans to run the anti-Fox News ad:

Media Matters, which has raised the torturing of Fox News to a high art, has come up with a new one: The group is trying to run an ad touting News Corporation’s widely-reported $1 million contribution to the Republican Governors Association — on Fox, during Bill O’Reilly’s show.

A Media Matters official sends over the ad, which you can watch below, and the spot coincides with a new front the group is opening against Fox: Media Matters and several other groups are about to call on the White House Correspondents Association to consider yanking Fox’s front-row seat in the White House press room.

The idea behind the ad is that Fox News devoted little to no coverage at all to its parent company’s $1 million donation, even though it was widely covered by many other news outlets and was widely pilloried by Dems as proof that Fox is a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP. By running the ad during O’Reilly’s show, Fox’s most watched program, Media Matters hopes to bring to Fox viewers’ attention what Fox News mostly wouldn’t.

But a solicitation email from MMFA president Eric Burns, seeking donations to pay for the spot, appears to indicate that Media Matters doesn’t or didn’t have money allocated to pay for the ad, and that the request to air the anti-Fox News ad on Fox News may have been nothing more than a publicity stunt.

In an interview with Fox News Executive Vice President of Ad Sales Paul Rittenberg, tells Mediaite that, apart from some slight changes to the voiceover copy, FNC had (and still has) “every intention of running the ad, and still do, presuming some factual inaccuracies are edited.” First, here is the 30-second spot:

Rittenberg told Mediaite that the network was, in fact, ready to run the Media Matters ad during The O’Reilly Factor, as had been requested by their D.C. area media buyer, under the condition that Media Matters edit the ad to FNC’s own standards. Rittenberg says, “We were happy to run the ad and were planning to move forward, but we made the simple request that they change the opening voice over copy.” Rittenberg continued “The spot that was originally submitted to us opened with ‘And now, a special message from Fox News.’ Not only is that incorrect, but no network would reasonably run an ad that falsely proclaims a statement that they never actually made.”

Rittenberg further explained that there was a smaller, yet still significant, issue with the closing voiceover, which claimed that News Corp. had donated the money to “oppose Democratic Governors this Fall”. Rittenberg said “Again, it was just a matter of being correct. We asked them to change it to ‘Democratic candidates,’ not ‘Democratic Governors’ as it was submitted,” adding “we ask that all ads be as factually accurate as possible.”

According to Rittenberg, Media Matters resubmitted a new version of the spot with corrected voiceover copy at the end of the spot, but the re-recorded voiceover that opened the ad was actually deemed less acceptable by Fox News’ advertising standards. The opening VO no longer said “And now, a special message from Fox News,” instead opening with “And now, a story that Fox News hosts doesn’t want to talk about.” Rittenberg concluded “no network that I know of would reasonably broadcast an ad that makes false claims about their on-air talent.” Update – Media Matters tells Mediaite that the re-recorded introductory voiceover now says “And now a special message that Fox News prime time hosts refuse to tell you, brought to you by Media Matters for America.”

The ad appears to be rejected in its current state, though Fox News says it still plans to run the spot if it can be brought up to their standards. At this point, though, it seems unlikely that Media Matters will amend the ad to FNC’s standards. And in fairness, according to Rittenberg’s account, common sense would dictate that no network would air a spot critical of their own prime time anchors, as the newer version is alleged to.

But was Media Matters really ever interested in buying ad time on The O’Reilly Factor – a relatively expensive proposition given the show’s very high ratings? Or was this simply a more cost effective ruse designed to raise awareness of News Corp.’s $1 Million donation to the RGA and of Media Matters itself? (Of course it appears to have worked since we are doing this story.)

A recent email from Media Matters president Eric Burns, soliciting donations to pay for the ad, seems to support the argument that this may have been nothing more than a publicity stunt. Mediaite has obtained a copy of the email, which can be read below.

Rittenberg tells Mediaite that Fox News is still ready to run the ad, if Media Matters is willing to change a few words at the opening of the spot. But it appears that in the cat and mouse game between media outlet and and media watchdog, Fox News may be playing chess, while Media Matters is playing checkers.

Update – Media Matters Vice President of Research & Communications Ari Rabin-Havt tells Mediaite “We first learned about our ad being rejected on Mediaite. Media Matters has every intention of running this ad. We think it is vital for Fox News’ viewers to know about News Corp.’s $1 million contribution to the Republican Governors Association.”

From: Eric Burns, Media Matters for America
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:10 PM
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Your voice on Fox News

August 23, 2010

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

Last week we learned that News Corp., Fox News’ corporate parent, gave $1 million to the Republican Governors’ Association — a donation that a News Corp spokesman chalked up to the RGA’s “pro-business agenda.”

While other networks covered this unusual contribution extensively, Fox News only devoted 37 seconds of airtime to the story. Fox viewers have been left in the dark as to the network’s direct involvement in races this fall.

Media Matters for America has decided to make sure Fox viewers are aware of News Corp.’s contributions. We are considering purchasing a national ad to air next week during The O’Reilly Factor to share this vital information with for viewers.

It will cost us approximately $35,000 to purchase the time. Will you help us?

In case you were still under the impression that Fox was a news network rather than a political operation, this donation should eliminate all doubt. The fact is, Fox is first and foremost a campaign arm of the Republican Party, and this seven-figure investment in Republican campaigns is just a part of the round-the-clock support they have given all year.

Click here to watch the ad — and donate to help us put it on the air during Fox’s The O’Reilly Factor.

Thanks again for your support.

Eric Burns
President,
Media Matters for America

© 2010 Media Matters for America

Eric Burns, fox news, Media Matters, News Corp., Paul Rittenberg, Plum Line Blog, Rick Sargent

NORBIT

Soros rears it’s ugly head through Media Matters, this time!
Olbermann feels slighted!!
MichelleF

Colby, I’m sure MM appreciates your attempt to help them raise money for their pathetic cause.

Consider me checke!!
The Real Royal King

MichelleF said:
Colby, I’m sure MM appreciates your attempt to help them raise money for their pathetic cause. Consider me checke!!

Well, at least you’re not checked today.

Actually, it was a pretty smart move. Among intelligent, reasonable people, FOX has taken a number of bit hits in the old credibility, legitimacy department of late, and I think it a good and proper thing to try to make some capital out of that.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
MichelleF

Royal Race-Baiter/Religious Bigot,
As always, I noticed the typo as soon as I clicked submit. I was just about to fix it, but decided to see if you would point it out instead. You never disappoint!!

Actually, it was a pretty smart move. Among intelligent, reasonable people, FOX has taken a number of bit hits in the old credibility, legitimacy department of late, and I think it a good and proper thing to try to make some capital out of that.

As I’ve stated before, just because you libs say something, doesn’t make it so. What is your evidence that their credibility has taken a hit? Have their ratings gone down? No, you hoped that they would, but they didn’t and it’s driving you libs (you too colby) absolutely INSANE!!! Even with the Whitehouse helping you, the war on FOX has been a complete BUST!!!
The Real Royal King

MichelleF said:
No, you hoped that they would, but they didn’t and it’s driving you libs (you too colby) absolutely INSANE!!!

More of your famous intellectual dishonesty, Michelle-in-Utah. I’ve said repeatedly that, much as the Romans gave bread and circuses to the rabble to keep them in control, FOX serves an enormously useful purpose in American public life. It keeps the mentally and physically sedentary in their Lift Chairs. I would never hope to see FOX suffer.

But, please, continue. Intellectual dishonesty and self-delusion are your bread and circuses. Enjoy.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
The Real Royal King

MichelleF said:
As always, I noticed the typo as soon as I clicked submit. I was just about to fix it, but decided to see if you would point it out instead.

Yes, that’s certainly believable.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
MichelleF

Royal Race-Baiter/Religious Bigot says,

Yes, that’s certainly believable.

Well it’s true, but it’s very sad that you lie SO much that you naturally assume everyone else is also. Sad indeed. Don’t forget to take you BDS, FDS, and PDS meds today!!
AngelPeters

I think it would be great for Fox to allow the ad. Shows they are ok with criticism.
chucken

Don’t forget the real story.Real news outlets would never allow a 1 Million dollar donation to one political party.It’s called conflict of interest.Palin,Rove,Gingich,Huckabee,Morris,Hannity (did I miss anyone?)all are paid by Fox to be toadies for the Republican Party.And Fox fools the sheep by what are refered to as Democract Wankers who are put on to bash Democracts,Kristien Powers,Doug Schoen,Pat Caddell and Dick Morris is still refered to as a former Clinton advisor who got canned for his hooker episode and Morris worked for GOP Trent Lott at the same time.Fox the pro-wrestling network!
MichelleF

Funny you mention Kirsten Powers Chucken. She just wrote an article call, “The GOP’S Long, Hot, Racist Summer”.

Keep it up libs, you’re only embarrassing yourselves!! Fox, Beck, Limbaugh, ect. aren’t going ANYWHERE!!!
Big Eddie

IF they come up with the dough … Fox should say what Ted Kennedy used to : ” I’ll drive off that bridge when I come to it “.
notsofast

I’m glad MM starts the ad saying it is brought to you by MM. That will cue the viewers to disregard the ad.
dummy123

I thought Newscorp spread their money around close to 50/50 percent between dems and Repubs??
I hear GE stands to make BILLIONS on the GREEN agenda of the loony left.
How did Media Matters cover that??
Azarkhan

“Media Matters, which has raised the torturing of Fox News to a high art”

LOL. Fox News is the giant; Media Matters is the gnat. The only people who care about MM are leftists who hate the free speech Fox represents.
BTW, I didn’t think 35g’s would be that big a stretch for the so-called “progressive media watchdog group”.
I bet for Royal, it’s pocket change. Royal, time to pony up!
chucken

Michelle F, Fox,Beck and Drug Limbaugh and similar clones will always be around to cash in on the idiot wingnuts who take these charlatans serioulsly.The message is always the same.All these darkies and their white masters on the left are out to destroy the white America you love so you must vote Republican.
lonestar77

Hahaha. These wingnuts at leftwingmediamatters got called out and they’re backing away. Typical of the left. Hit & run, hit & run. They are obviously not a serious organization and mediaite should stop being their personal P.R. firm.
writer

FOX ANGERS THE KING
‘CAUSE THEY JUST WON’T AGREE
TROUBLE IS HE’S TOO DUMB
TO TURN OFF THE TV
Hugo Daun

MichelleF said:
Fox, Beck, Limbaugh, ect. aren’t going ANYWHERE!!!

Can’t be sure about Beck’s health, but certainly Limbaugh is only about one Grand Slam breakfast and one slap-and-tickle with a Dominican lady-boy away from a cold slab.
FearMonger

lonestar77 said:
Hahaha. These wingnuts at leftwingmediamatters got called out and they’re backing away. Typical of the left. Hit & run, hit & run. They are obviously not a serious organization and mediaite should stop being their personal P.R. firm.

Indeed. Mediaite and MM are co-dependent enablers. With enough back and forth they can polish a turd into a ‘story’ complete with it’s own set of manufactured legs.

Now MM has another outlet promoting their ad without paying FNC a dime. Hmmm…
NORBIT

The BACKLASH HAS BEGUN! – Keep calling the Bluff, particularly of the Professional Left RACE-HUSTLERS who Play the Race-Card at every opportunity!

It’s time to Investigate the Anti-White Racism and the Anti-Christian Bigotry of the Intollerant Left!!!
The Real Royal King

chucken said:
Michelle F, Fox,Beck and Drug Limbaugh and similar clones will always be around to cash in on the idiot wingnuts who take these charlatans serioulsly.The message is always the same.All these darkies and their white masters on the left are out to destroy the white America you love so you must vote Republican.

I’d day you pretty much summed up the key Republican Talking Points and the life philosophy of Michelle-in-Utah and Righter.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
The Real Royal King

FearMonger said:
Indeed. Mediaite and MM are co-dependent enablers. With enough back and forth they can polish a turd into a ’story’ complete with it’s own set of manufactured legs. Now MM has another outlet promoting their ad without paying FNC a dime. Hmmm…

I don’t know that it is necessary to run the ad. You are giving it plenty of air time, for which I am most thankful.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
The Real Royal King

Azarkhan said:
I bet for Royal, it’s pocket change. Royal, time to pony up!

I’m a bit tapped out from running the full page in most major Texas dailies, yesterday. You know, the one with the picture of Toll Booth Perry and “Coward” written beneath it.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
writer

THE KING IS A NITWIT
HE COULDN’T BE DULLER
HE DOESN’T LIKE WHITES
JUST THE PEOPLE OF COLOR

BURMA SHAVE
MichelleF

Hugo Daun says:
August 25, 2010 at 10:51 am Hugo Daun(Quote)
0 2
MichelleF said:
Fox, Beck, Limbaugh, ect. aren’t going ANYWHERE!!!

Can’t be sure about Beck’s health, but certainly Limbaugh is only about one Grand Slam breakfast and one slap-and-tickle with a Dominican lady-boy away from a cold slab.

Don’t plan your party yet. Limbaugh has become a health nut and lost alot of weight. Looks like you won’t get your wish there, scumbag.
MichelleF

You’re inspired me to start writing, Writer:

KING IS HIS NAME
RACISM IS HIS GAME
HE RANTS AND RAVES AND WHINES AND CRIES
BUT BECK AND FOX AREN’T GOING ANYWHERE NO MATTER HOW HARD HE TRIES

OK, so I’ won’t quite my day job!
The Real Royal King

MichelleF said:
You’re inspired me to start writing, Writer: KING IS HIS NAMERACISM IS HIS GAMEHE RANTS AND RAVES AND WHINES AND CRIESBUT BECK AND FOX AREN’T GOING ANYWHERE NO MATTER HOW HARD HE TRIES OK, so I’ won’t quite my day job!

And, please don’t “quit” your day job, either, Michelle-in-Utah.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
George C

The Real Royal King said:
I’m a bit tapped out from running the full page in most major Texas dailies, yesterday. You know, the one with the picture of Toll Booth Perry and “Coward” written beneath it.

So you’re really Steve Mostyn, and you do all your fancy Texas style lawyern’ at night , and post here all day ?
Hugo Daun

Awww, Michelle, I never wished death to the draft-dodging pig.

I’m simply pointing out that the damage done by years of drug addiction and morbid obesity is likely to catch up to him sooner or later. Wouldn’t surprise me if he takes the dirt nap by year’s end.

Why are you so sensitive? A fatty are ya?
writer

Poet and don’t know it, Michelle. But the King is right. This is kinda fun. I just might be able to come up with a few more for him.
Constantly

The Real Royal King said:
I’m a bit tapped out from running the full page in most major Texas dailies, yesterday. You know, the one with the picture of Toll Booth Perry and “Coward” written beneath it.

Perry has been banging your wife too? She gives more turns than a game of trivial pursuit…
The Real Royal King

Constantly said:
Perry has been banging your wife too? She gives more turns than a game of trivial pursuit…

The prevailing wisdom in the Capitol City, going all the way back to his Agriculture Commissioner days is that Toll Booth plays for the other team. He was, as you may know, a cheerleader and is indignant when one calls him that instead of yeall leader. I shouldn’t be surprised if he’s not making drapes for the Governors’ Mansion reopening as I write.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
Permatiltx

What? FOX is concerned about accuracy in their ads? I call BS. I’ve watched a lot of FOX Sports and have been drinking a lot of Budweiser or Miller Lite, and not once have I been asked out by a supermodel. My friend’s baby is shitty at stock advice. He can’t use a computer to save his life. And lizards don’t talk, FOX! I tried to have a conversation with one yesterday, and you now what, nothing. No advice on car insurance. And I spent 15 minutes with him, and didn’t save any money whatsoever!

(This was intended to be a joke. I have no real opinion on this either way, just thought it was funny to write that. FOX is pretty much in the right on this one, and Media Matters got their bluff called. Should’ve got the backing first before making the bluff. Stupid move.)
Constantly

The Real Royal King said:
The prevailing wisdom in the Capitol City, going all the way back to his Agriculture Commissioner days is that Toll Booth plays for the other team. He was, as you may know, a cheerleader and is indignant when one calls him that instead of yeall leader. I shouldn’t be surprised if he’s not making drapes for the Governors’ Mansion reopening as I write.

So then you support him banging your wife?
Tony the Fist

Funny, Perma. You kill me, buddy.
Mariopreciado

Has Faux mentioned the donation at all on any of it’s “news” programs?
glenn113

Fox News hiding something? No, impossible. Are you kidding me? That’s the fair and balanced Fox News Network??
Ninja

Mariopreciado said:
Has Faux mentioned the donation at all on any of it’s “news” programs?

About as often as MSNBC mentions their parent company took stimulas money from this administration.
shootfromthehip

Oh hi, “Dummy123,” who says “I thought Newscorp spread their money around close to 50/50 percent between dems and Repubs??”

They don’t, which is the point of this entire post. No where NEAR “50/50.”

Nice to know you are living up to your name.

Keep it up, cons!
FearMonger

chucken said:
Michelle F, Fox,Beck and Drug Limbaugh and similar clones will always be around to cash in on the idiot wingnuts who take these charlatans serioulsly.The message is always the same.All these darkies and their white masters on the left are out to destroy the white America you love so you must vote Republican.

The Real Royal King said:
I’d day you pretty much summed up the key Republican Talking Points and the life philosophy of Michelle-in-Utah and Righter.

Both of you should be ashamed of yourselves. The other 4 buttheads who gave both of thses posts ‘thumbs up’ should be ashamed too.

Seriously. You leftwing nuts spout bigoted shit like this with impunity…. but you whine like schoolgirls when Dr. Laura points out that Def Comedy Jam broadcasts the ‘N’ word at an average rate of 6 times per minute. What ever happened to The Golden Rule? What ever happened to setting an example? … setting the bar HIGH instead of wallowing in the friggin’ filth?

Just like this hypocrite Prez who gets in front of his teleprompters and lectures about ‘putting partisan politics aside’ …. then 3 minutes later is bashing away at republicans who ‘haven’t had ONE SINGLE IDEA….blah blah blah”. NOBODY IS ACCEPTING THE DOUBLE STANDARDS ANYMORE PEOPLE.

It’s been a long time coming but enough is enough. It’s time to sink or swim based on your own ability. The (D) record (since they took over in Jan. 2007) is what it is. It either has merit or it does not. All the rest of this BS is just distraction from talking about the actual factual historical record of the party that has been in power for over 3.5 years.

You all support the HC BIll… the stimulus… the GZ mosque… the federal lawsuit against Arizona. GREAT! Those are REAL issues that are important to most Americans. But you all don’t want to talk about REAL issues or your plan for the future, you just want to point fingers and assign blame to anyone but yourselves. It’s evident in everything you say. When’s the last time you saw a (D) talking about their plans for next year?

I mean really….. “All these darkies and their white masters”??? WTF did that have to do with this topic?? Who keeps bringing every friggin’ thread back to.RACE, ‘chucken’?? Project much?

In other words… Racist, know thyself.

The day will soon arrive when that RACE CARD is completely impotent. What will you leftwingers do when that happens? ….. when you have to base your arguments on facts and voting records and your stated positions?

To put it another way, GOOD LUCK COPING WITH BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS…..

You sure as hell suck at it so far.
The Real Royal King

FearMonger says:
August 25, 2010 at 3:21 pm FearMonger(Quote)

I think you need to attend and Anger Management seminar, perhaps at a Makki Masjid.

AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:
REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.
BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:
ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?
FearMonger

The Real Royal King said:
FearMonger says:August 25, 2010 at 3:21 pm FearMonger(Quote) I think you need to attend and Anger Management seminar, perhaps at a Makki Masjid. AT FOX “NEWS” WE SET OUT TO MULTI-TASK:REPUBLICAN PR AND TERROR DOUGH.BUT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, HOW DARE YOU ASK:ON WHOM OUR FAVORS WE DEEM TO BESTOW?

Right…. but no answer for a simple question…

FearMonger said:
When’s the last time you saw a (D) talking about their plans for next year?
ChuckfromTacoma

The Real Royal King Richard: What the heck is a “yeall leader”?
The typo police really want to know.
AnonymousCoward

Chuck: A “yell leader” is what Texas A&M charitably calls their cheerleaders.
Cecelia

The Real Royal King writes: “The prevailing wisdom in the Capitol City, going all the way back to his Agriculture Commissioner days is that Toll Booth plays for the other team. He was, as you may know, a cheerleader and is indignant when one calls him that instead of yeall leader. I shouldn’t be surprised if he’s not making drapes for the Governors’ Mansion reopening as I write.”

A cheerleader AND a decorator…. huh…. so you’re saying he’s gay in some of the most petty stereotypical imagery imaginable.

Fearmonger sums you up to the innth with with this:

“The day will soon arrive when that RACE CARD is completely impotent. What will you leftwingers do when that happens? ….. when you have to base your arguments on facts and voting records and your stated positions?

To put it another way, GOOD LUCK COPING WITH BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS…..

You sure as hell suck at it so far.”

He (and they) sure as hell do.
DrFunke

I am not sure I see the issue here

Media Matters wants to run the ad but will get funds for it before they run it

Where is the issue?
http://libertyinprogress.blogspot.com/ ProgLib

Don’t plan your party yet. Limbaugh has become a health nut and lost alot of weight. Looks like you won’t get your wish there, scumbag.

So, popping pills and using some of that Oxycontin has helped him lose all the blubber, huh? Please, Michelle, give us more back story on that.