Bachman should also be there. The useless media are just doing their homework 12 months late. They should have exposed them from top to bottom. From Politicians like Bachman getting federal farm subsidies to the Seniors who are on social security and Medicare, yet were crying fowl against Govt. run health care.

Phonies all of you, now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Let me see, are these LEGAL subsidies? This is like saying that the people that oppose Social Security should not take it even though the government took their money without their consent. Liberals don’t know the meaning ot the word LOGIC.

skyfet said:
Bachman should also be there. The useless media are just doing their homework 12 months late. They should have exposed them from top to bottom. From Politicians like Bachman getting federal farm subsidies to the Seniors who are on social security and Medicare, yet were crying fowl against Govt. run health care. Phonies all of you, now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

skyfet continues his long streak of never grasping the point no matter what . Foul .

Instead of farm subsidies, let the farmers work the farms and sell AMERICAN products to AMERICANS!

Ah, I see, Blow Me, these people paid their whole lives into the farm subsidy system, specially marked as such on their withholding. Retard (I mean, look at you).

The tea party being stupid hypocrites isn’t really news.

gordonbloyershow said:
Let me see, are these LEGAL subsidies? This is like saying that the people that oppose Social Security should not take it even though the government took their money without their consent. Liberals don’t know the meaning ot the word LOGIC.

Come on Gordon…don’t you realize the double standard by the Right that you seem to be perpetuating?

You’re defending those subsidies by saying they are “legal”.

But many on the right are attacking union members for taking LEGALLY obtained health benefits and collective….or attacking the unemployed for taking unemployment benefits.

These Tea Party politicians attack people for taking a few thousand dollars of health benefits or unemployment….while taking MILLIONS of dollars in farm subsidies.

In a free market economy, why would they need subsidies if they’re profitable?? They’re just not walking the walk.

oops meant to say “collective bargaining” in previous post.

Utah Johnny Montana said:
skyfet continues his long streak of never grasping the point no matter what . Foul .

Useful Idiot comes to mind.

gordonbloyershow said:
Let me see, are these LEGAL subsidies? This is like saying that the people that oppose Social Security should not take it even though the government took their money without their consent. Liberals don’t know the meaning ot the word LOGIC.

I tend to agree with your overall theme that the Congresspeople have been taking advantage of a legal program, so they can’t really be blamed and I’d do the same, but instead of using Social Security as an example because as @The Dweller Ysul asserts, they didn’t pay into the system, I’d point toward the tax tricks used by GE and every other big corporation as my illustration.

Also, someone taking advantage of a program are among the best suited to know how it should be reformed, but if they were to oppose changes out of hand or take their programs off the table, it’d definitely be hypocrisy.

skyfet said:
Useful Idiot comes to mind.

Don’t be silly , skyfet . You’re not useful at all .

gordonbloyershow said:
Let me see, are these LEGAL subsidies? This is like saying that the people that oppose Social Security should not take it even though the government took their money without their consent. Liberals don’t know the meaning ot the word LOGIC.

So you are making excuse for being on the dole.

Magister said:
I tend to agree with your overall theme that the Congresspeople have been taking advantage of a legal program, so they can’t really be blamed and I’d do the same, but instead of using Social Security as an example because as @The Dweller Ysul asserts, they didn’t pay into the system, I’d point toward the tax tricks used by GE and every other big corporation as my illustration.

agreed

Utah Johnny Montana said:
Don’t be silly , skyfet . You’re not useful at all .

But you are.

Boy, we’ve got a foreigner living in our White House, his right hand man is Jeff Imelt, CEO of largest US tax dodger GE corporation, stll parent company minus 1% of all NBC properties,engine contractor to our military, largest producer of Obama’s pet project, wind turbines, yet ABC is picking on hard working ” real ” American farmers because they recieved $100, 000 in personal government subsidies.

I wonder how ABC report the GE made $7 billion on the backs of the American taxpayer, while paying not one thin dime in corporate income tax. Or their outrage over the Pigford reparations criminal enterprise greenlighted by Obama himself through his corrupt Holder justice department. I don’t recall them voicing an opinion on these two subject, but a Republican farmer is exposed as a farmer is headline news.

skyfet said:
But you are.

Much obliged , l’il buckaroo !

We need to stop this BS farm subsides, welfare and corporate welfare. All of it is wrong. The government should not be taking, under the threat of force/prison, the fruits of ones labor and giving it to someone else. All of it is wrong.

Barack Must Go said:
Boy, we’ve got a foreigner living in our White House, his right hand man is Jeff Imelt, CEO of largest US tax dodger GE corporation, stll parent company minus 1% of all NBC properties,engine contractor to our military, largest producer of Obama’s pet project, wind turbines, yet ABC is picking on hard working ” real ” American farmers because they recieved $100, 000 in personal government subsidies.

I wonder how ABC report the GE made $7 billion on the backs of the American taxpayer, while paying not one thin dime in corporate income tax. Or their outrage over the Pigford reparations criminal enterprise greenlighted by Obama himself through his corrupt Holder justice department. I don’t recall them voicing an opinion on these two subject, but a Republican farmer is exposed as a farmer is headline news.

The real difference between the two parties is whose supporters get the spoils of victory.

What makes these tea party pukes so obnoxious and hypocritical is not that they have taken legal subsidies, but because they most likely have demagogued on the issue of spending during their campaigns, all the while keeping their own federal handouts a secret, And even if you press them on the issue and say that this it is a form of governmental welfare, they will defend it as being something else.

I guarantee you that they are hypocritical pieces of sh*t to the core of their being, just like Gordon Bloyer.

Yeah, the MSM is good at putting a microscope on Republicans and tea parties. not so much when it comes to holding Dmeocrats accountable.

jdubbleu said:
don’t be too hard on Skyfet, it’s quite an achievement just to turn his computer on and log in to this site.

At least I can use mine, unlike you who blame it for your failure to write appropriately.

That’s a fair point Barak Must Go, and Same2u also has a good point. Can’t we all agree that there is a huge problem with the system. Both parties appear to by corporatist hypocrites. Change the system so they can’t do it. A tax code that is simple and flat, thus not allowing deductions by ensuring that all pay an equal percentage, would take the fraud out of giving companies like GE, BOA and Exxon huge tax breaks. Additionally, stop giving subsides period. That goes for welfare, and corporate welfare.

mibwilso said:
The real difference between the two parties is whose supporters get the spoils of victory.

The true difference between the ideologies of dem v rep are quite simple.

The Republicans favor the rich, movers & shakers, titans of industry, etc. This philosphy has basically shaped and sustained America as the great country on earth since it’s inception. The rich own the businesses that employ wholely 70+ percent of all the workers in America. Without their continued participation and growth, due to government interference, we get the untenable, nerly banrupt situation we find ourselves in today.

The democrat philosphy is steal from the rich to distribute enough free cheese to the poor and pay offs to the corrupt union boss’s, make quid pro quo back room deals with GE, teachers, cops, etc. in exchange for their voting blocks.

The fatal flaw with the morally bankrupt, brain dead democrat plan, underway as I type, only extorts enough money from the rich to pay off folks for votes for one year. Remember $ 900 billion Obamanomics slush fund to save or create union only jobs and 2 years of unemployment. That unbelievable amount of money was only enough for one year, which has passed.

The moal of the story is ( democrat ) give a man a fish and he eats ( once )…….( Republican ) teach a man to fish, give him a job, and he and his family eat forever, without ever needing a government hand out, in fact contributing enough through paying their fair share of federal, state and local taxes to build the jails and prisons to house all left wing bomb throwers that never learned to fit into civilized society.

Simple, simple yet some among us, you know who you are, will never admit it. and fit in.

Skyfet really should check for typos before going on grammar flame. Moron.

mibwilso said:
Come on Gordon…don’t you realize the double standard by the Right that you seem to be perpetuating? You’re defending those subsidies by saying they are “legal”. But many on the right are attacking union members for taking LEGALLY obtained health benefits and collective….or attacking the unemployed for taking unemployment benefits. These Tea Party politicians attack people for taking a few thousand dollars of health benefits or unemployment….while taking MILLIONS of dollars in farm subsidies. In a free market economy, why would they need subsidies if they’re profitable?? They’re just not walking the walk.

Did these farmers negotiate those numbers with bought and paid pols on the other side of the table? No. If you cannot see the inheirent evil in a system that allows me to pay money to an entity that I will then sit down with and then “negotiate” with over something that belongs to a third party, then there is absolutely no reason to attempt dialog with you as you are either too dumb or entrenched in your ideology.

And nobody is attacking the unemployed for taking the unemployment that was paid for by their employers……the original 26 weeks……it’s the other 73 weeks on my dime I take exception to.

BTW, do you even understand the reason there are farm subsidies? Do you think you can plant what you want on your land……..read that again……….LAND YOU OWN and most likely have been in your family for decades……..do you think that if you got up this morning and decided that you would like to take advantage of the rise in corn prices………….due to the stellar liberal idea that burning up our food for fuel rather than dig it out of our own ground is sound policy………..do you seriously think you can fire up your combine and start planting?

Are you that woefully ill-informed or are you here to run that sore under your nose in an all out effort to dumb down those who would accept your BS as gospel?

When the govt. can tell me what to do on my own land…..as in what crops to gown, what seeds I may use, how much water I can utilize, etc…………then they damn well are going to pay for it.

As soon as the govt. gets out of the farming business, I’m all for an end to subsidies……but as long as Uncle Sam is calling the shots and not Farmer Brown…….then Uncle Sam has to pay for the privledge.

You idiots rant at the wrong people.

jdubbleu said:
oh look who already has sand in his vag today!

fixed that for ya, and like utah said it’s another point you can’t seem to grasp. i told you i never capitalize unless i’m posting from my ipad which does it automatically. see if you can find the word “intentional” in your chinese – english dictionary…

It’s shameful you have to blame your hardware for this. Learn how to use it, or find something easier to understand.

Chinese! that’s really funny. Now you are taking your frustration out against the Chinese. I think that is the right focus, because in the end they are responsible for your failure (for making the Ipad you blame).

skyfet said:
Useful Idiot comes to mind.

Don’t be so hard on yourself and insulting to idiots.

You are a useful tool to teach children the dangers of drug use.

VoiceofReason said:

You are a useful tool to teach children the dangers of drug use.

I guess you are speaking from experience. I hope you are passing the message to the kids.

jdubbleu said:
you should get a refund from whoever is teaching you english.

It’s a shame you have to blame your hardware for your inadequacy.

Barack Must Go said:
Boy, we’ve got a foreigner living in our White House, his right hand man is Jeff Imelt, CEO of largest US tax dodger GE corporation, stll parent company minus 1% of all NBC properties,engine contractor to our military, largest producer of Obama’s pet project, wind turbines, yet ABC is picking on hard working ” real ” American farmers because they recieved $100, 000 in personal government subsidies. I wonder how ABC report the GE made $7 billion on the backs of the American taxpayer, while paying not one thin dime in corporate income tax. Or their outrage over the Pigford reparations criminal enterprise greenlighted by Obama himself through his corrupt Holder justice department. I don’t recall them voicing an opinion on these two subject, but a Republican farmer is exposed as a farmer is headline news.

AND while GE was ass raping the American public they were also dealing with Iran. Providing God knows what to our sworn enemy.

Funny too is that fact that nobody talks about Shirley Sherrod being invloved in the Pigford scam either do they? Wanna know why she didn’t take Barry up on his job offer? She just got a 13 million dollar check from him for Pigford……..

And as I said above…….when Uncle Sam is neck deep in how a farm is run, hindering as he sees fit, then he must pay.

Listen to how bad the union thugs are squealing over having to pay a tiny fraction of the costs for their penthouse treatment……can you imagine if the govt. of Wisconsin was telling them what they could do with their own property with ZERO recompense????????

They’d have torn the bulding down and much of Madison would still be burning.

skyfet said:
It’s a shame you have to blame your hardware for your inadequacy.

What’s your excuse?

jdubbleu said:
you really suck at this…

I know it hurts to be you.

skyfet said:
I guess you are speaking from experience. I hope you are passing the message to the kids.

I am.

I would make a commercial if I had the coin……………

One of my posts………this is your brain.

One of your posts…….this is your brain on drugs.

Then I’d whack you with the frying pan.

VoiceofReason said:
What’s your excuse?

Voice of Reason in reality sounds more like Voice of Insanity.

VoiceofReason said:
I am.

I would make a commercial if I had the coin……………

One of my posts………this is your brain.

One of your posts…….this is your brain on drugs.

Then I’d whack you with the frying pan.

This proves my point.

The Tea Party has agreed to give back the $8 MILLION they have received if the democrats give back the $14 TRILLION they’ve received.

I noticed Tim Pawlenty was smart enough to put this issue away early. So far he seems like the most sensible and plain speaking candidate.

CosmosDan said:
I noticed Tim Pawlenty was smart enough to put this issue away early. So far he seems like the most sensible and plain speaking candidate.

whoops this was supposed to be in the birther thread.

Dem4Ever said:
The Tea Party has agreed to give back the $8 MILLION they have received if the democrats give back the $14 TRILLION they’ve received.

You do know that amount has been accumulating for years. You are not that insane to think that money was spent in the last 2.5yrs.

VoiceofReason said:
AND while GE was ass raping the American public they were also dealing with Iran. Providing God knows what to our sworn enemy. Funny too is that fact that nobody talks about Shirley Sherrod being invloved in the Pigford scam either do they? Wanna know why she didn’t take Barry up on his job offer? She just got a 13 million dollar check from him for Pigford…….. And as I said above…….when Uncle Sam is neck deep in how a farm is run, hindering as he sees fit, then he must pay. Listen to how bad the union thugs are squealing over having to pay a tiny fraction of the costs for their penthouse treatment……can you imagine if the govt. of Wisconsin was telling them what they could do with their own property with ZERO recompense???????? They’d have torn the bulding down and much of Madison would still be burning.

I’m telling you. All the corruption from this Obama regime going on right in front of the American people, covered up by the equally complicit MSM, and no ones the wiser.

Good ol Shirley got her settlement ( hush money ) at the tax payers expense, without ever having to set foot in acourtroom to explain ‘ I was a racist, before I wasn’t a racist, and I’m just a smidge racist now, but that’s nothing a $13 million dollor check couldn’t immediately straighten out.

The Republicans really need to get together with The Donald to get the true extent of government union corruption before the ” real ” American people, and they need to do it yesterday. Four days of Obama’s secret life and the president’s numbers are halfway to China the hard way ( through the earth ) . One or two more issues about the regime out in the sunlight, Obama will probably throw in the towel and go wherever his home really is.

VoiceofReason said:
Did these farmers negotiate those numbers with bought and paid pols on the other side of the table? No. I

How delusional. You think these corporate farms and agribusiness companies just got the subsidies because they’re just nice folks?

Of course not….these companies have powerful lobbyists and wield lots of influence over their representatives, who in turn buy them off with subsidies.

The representatives want you to think that they’re giving most of the assistance to little ol’ family farms, but they’re really giving the handouts to giant agribusiness companies.

There is a lot of political BS on here and so far I haven’t seen many people actually look at the economic principles of subsidies. It makes no sense for Republicans (who are supposed to be “Free Market” party) to be in favor farm subsidies which drives up prices for consumers.

Republican or Democrat, a lot of people that comment have this distorted world that the campaign Republicans (Democrats) make the same decisions as elected Republicans (Democrats) and therefore try to rationalize the hypocrisy of their favored party.

In reality, both parties will always prioritize power (doing favorable things for certain people) and money (lobbying and fund-raising) over actually having a firm stance. Which is why Democrats still have us in wars and Republicans are in favor of barriers to trade and the free market. Wake up people.

The odd contradiction to me is that the Tea Partiers routinely like to lecture everyone about how average individuals know best how to use their money…

….but they pursue policies that effectively say “millionaires know best…just let them handle it and let the benefits trickle down to you”

skyfet said:
This proves my point.

Another of your “I’m rubber……you’re glue” retorts.

Well played.

Barack Must Go said:
The Republicans favor the rich, movers & shakers, titans of industry, etc.

Yep. Exactly. You said it, not me. But if you think they’re for the average mom and pop, you’re kidding yourselves.

That’s the biggest con job this country has ever seen: The Republican party has convinced poor white people across America that by supporting policies that favor the rich, maybe they too will one day be rich.

mibwilso said:
How delusional. You think these corporate farms and agribusiness companies just got the subsidies because they’re just nice folks? Of course not….these companies have powerful lobbyists and wield lots of influence over their representatives, who in turn buy them off with subsidies. The representatives want you to think that they’re giving most of the assistance to little ol’ family farms, but they’re really giving the handouts to giant agribusiness companies.

So you contend that all of those mentioned are argibusinees farms or owners of giant mega farms? and spare me what you say they want me to think. Stick to the facts. And let’s just talk about what the issue at hand is and that’s these congresscritters called out by ABC. Is this what you contend?

Do you have something to substantiate this?

mibwilso said:
The odd contradiction to me is that the Tea Partiers routinely like to lecture everyone about how average individuals know best how to use their money… ….but they pursue policies that effectively say “millionaires know best…just let them handle it and let the benefits trickle down to you”

Got a cite to show that’s how we feel or did that come from yo0ur rectum like your other BS contentions?

The reality is that economies do best when people at all income levels are able to have their needs met

Republicans, if you want to preserve the American system and way of life, you have to make sure that it still works for everyone.

If it gets to a point where too many people feel left out or left behind, it will reach critical mass and lead to drastic changes.

You can’t keep promoting policies that allow the gap between rich and poor to continue to grow….because eventually people will start to think “Hey, this system isn’t working for me”.

VoiceofReason said:
Got a cite to show that’s how we feel or did that come from yo0ur rectum like your other BS contentions?

Just look at your policies. The GOP keeps promoting tax breaks and loopholes for those at the top…while trying to gut unions, keep worker wages low, etc. Your policies promote the haves over the have nots. It’s really pretty simple.

mibwilso said:
Yep. Exactly. You said it, not me. But if you think they’re for the average mom and pop, you’re kidding yourselves. That’s the biggest con job this country has ever seen: The Republican party has convinced poor white people across America that by supporting policies that favor the rich, maybe they too will one day be rich.

No dumbass, they are in it for themselves. Of course they are. Why shouldn’t they be? Or better still why should they be FORCED to be at the barrel of a gun because you think your way is better for them? Or for the rest of us.

ESPECIALLY when most if not all of what you have done has fu#ked us waaaaay worse than overpriced and under quality car manufacuturers giving their execs big money……..

Since our way is sooooo shitty…….how bout you run it down for me.

What entitles you to my money? IOW, what right do you have to deem it ok to take my money but not theirs over there?

Show me in the Constitution where it says that if you make poor choices and cannot compete that that is somehow my problem and my responsibility to rectify.

I’ll wait…………..

VoiceofReason said:
Do you have something to substantiate this?

Here’s something from the Heritage Foundation….hardly a liberal group:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2002/04/Farm-Subsidies-for-the-Rich-amp-Famous-Shattered-Records-in-2001

“Legislators promoting subsidies take advantage of the popular misconception that farm subsidies exist to stabilize the incomes of poor family farmers who are at the mercy of unpredictable weather and crop prices. If that were the case, the federal government could bring the income of every full-time farmer in America up to 185 percent of the federal poverty level ($32,652 for a family of four in 2001) for just $4 billion per year.3 In reality, however, the government spends nearly $20 billion annually on programs that target large farms and agribusinesses.”

Good point Voice of Reason. The US Constitution does not guarantee equal outcome or equal results. How successful or how much a failure you are is up to you. What the Constitution does is restricts federal government and empowers the individual with liberty.

VoiceofReason said:

Show me in the Constitution where it says that if you make poor choices and cannot compete that that is somehow my problem and my responsibility to rectify.

I’ll wait…………..

Haha….this is the classic Republican assumption. That people who aren’t rich just “make poor choices” and “can’t compete”.

It’s kinda hard to compete when someone works for one of these oh-so-generous corporations who lays off workers while giving bonuses to those at the top……or who cuts salaries and benefits when the company is making record profits.

mibwilso said:
It’s kinda hard to compete when someone works for one of these oh-so-generous corporations who lays off workers while giving bonuses to those at the top……or who cuts salaries and benefits when the company is making record profits.

The government should not be taking from one individual, via threat of force or prison, and giving to another. Welfare, regardless of the poor, rich or corporation, is wrong.

More Liberty5 said:
Good point Voice of Reason. The US Constitution does not guarantee equal outcome or equal results. How successful or how much a failure you are is up to you. What the Constitution does is restricts federal government and empowers the individual with liberty.

I agree that the Constitution does not guarantee equal outcomes….and I don’t think it should.

But the problem is that, too often, this country does not provide equal *opportunities* either.

For example, the quality of school that a child can attend is too often a function of where they live. In other words, the people who are poor are also forced to go to some of the worst schools.

Even if those people work hard and obey the law, how can they compete when their schools send them out to compete against other students who are 2-3 grade levels ahead?

I know this because I am a teacher who has spent most of my career working in low-income schools. There are many hardworking parents who are doing their best to raise their kids right, but their kids automatically start out behind just because of the school they go to.

mibwilso said:
The reality is that economies do best when people at all income levels are able to have their needs met

Bull crap. Socialism NEVER has worked. EVER. Right about the time folks start touting an experiment in govt. insuring equal results for all they run out of the “earners” money and then you get Greece.

mibwilso said:
Republicans, if you want to preserve the American system and way of life, you have to make sure that it still works for everyone.

More bull crap. Unless you are disabled or mentally ill, I don’t owe you shit. And with all the shit we have to go through over the crazy ADA you damn well better be pretty fu#ked up physically and mentally or get your ass to work. We made all sort of changes to the work “environment” and have added a plethora of new “diabilities” to have to cow to…….you damn well better be in an iron lung or get your lazy ass to work just like me.

mibwilso said:If it gets to a point where too many people feel left out or left behind, it will reach critical mass and lead to drastic changes.

Bring it. I am getting sick of this threat. Let’s get it over with and see what shakes out in the end.

I think far fewer folks will be on your side when all the cards are on the table and your side actually has to tell folks what you are all about, not pussy foot around with cute terms like reproductive freedom.

Bring it and let’s have done with it so I can be assured that i won’t leave this to my kids and grand kids to set straight.

mibwilso said:
You can’t keep promoting policies that allow the gap between rich and poor to continue to grow….because eventually people will start to think “Hey, this system isn’t working for me”.

The only thing that allows the gap to grow is poor people and the people that get fat pimping thier faux support for said poor folks.

What you damn well better hope is that folks don’t wise up and see how you folks have played them for chumps for DECADES simply to further your craven lust for power.

Especially blacks. Y’all damn well better hope that none of these smart conservative black man ever getws a toe hold with the rank and file black population and shows them exactly how you have fuc*ed them for God knows how long all the while blaming others simply to get them to stupidly vote for you.

Talk about folks not looking out for their best interest (a mantra you folks LOVE TO TROT OUT) man……you damn well better hope you get shit locked in tight before they wake up.

I wouldn’t want to be you when blacks and hispanics realize who their real enemy is and how bad they’ve been played since I don’t know how long.

mibwilso said:
Here’s something from the Heritage Foundation….hardly a liberal group: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2002/04/Farm-Subsidies-for-the-Rich-amp-Famous-Shattered-Records-in-2001 “Legislators promoting subsidies take advantage of the popular misconception that farm subsidies exist to stabilize the incomes of poor family farmers who are at the mercy of unpredictable weather and crop prices. If that were the case, the federal government could bring the income of every full-time farmer in America up to 185 percent of the federal poverty level ($32,652 for a family of four in 2001) for just $4 billion per year.3 In reality, however, the government spends nearly $20 billion annually on programs that target large farms and agribusinesses.”

So you don’t. Or can’t read. Or don’t understand the simple grade school premise of Q&A.

Lemme help you.

It doesn’t work like this…….

Q: What color is that apple?
A: The capital of California is Sacramento.

One more stike and you’re out……

Here you go again……

So you contend that all of those mentioned are argibusinees farms or owners of giant mega farms? and spare me what you say they want me to think. Stick to the facts. And let’s just talk about what the issue at hand is and that’s these congresscritters called out by ABC. Is this what you contend?

Do you have something to substantiate this?

More Liberty5 said:
The government should not be taking from one individual, via threat of force or prison, and giving to another. Welfare, regardless of the poor, rich or corporation, is wrong.

The whole reason you have governments in the first place is to make the society run more smoothly and efficiently.

You do this by collecting taxes and putting it towards things that benefit the society as a whole….like roads, schools, etc.

It stands to reason that those who are wealthy have benefitted from this system too.

mibwilso said:
But the problem is that, too often, this country does not provide equal *opportunities* either.

True. But the US Constitution does not guarantee equal opportunities. It restricts what the government can do. Additionally, money does not equal better schools. The USA spends the third highest per student on education, yet we are way down the scale on actual performance when compared to our Asian and European counterparts after the 4th grade.

mibwilso said:
The whole reason you have governments in the first place is to make the society run more smoothly and efficiently.

You do this by collecting taxes and putting it towards things that benefit the society as a whole….like roads, schools, etc.

It stands to reason that those who are wealthy have benefitted from this system too.

I agree to a point. You collect taxes, at least on the federal level, for roads, national defense, the regulation of trade, coining money but schools are not in the US Constitution. That is a local issue. It is a state issue and the states need to deal with that, just as the enforcement of local laws is a local issue.

Have you ever tried to get a federal permit or license for something? How efficient is that? If anything, government is very inefficient – ever been to the DMV.

mibwilso said:
Just look at your policies. The GOP keeps promoting tax breaks and loopholes for those at the top…while trying to gut unions, keep worker wages low, etc. Your policies promote the haves over the have nots. It’s really pretty simple.

So again……nuttin. Oh well. As to the crap you do posit……..

Tax breaks for millionaires……….SO WHAT? Again…..WTF ENTITLES YOU TO THEIR MONEY? And when you have figured a somewhat reasonable answer to why they should fork over huge chunks of their earnings to you for distribution as you see fit, then get on to telling me how we deal with the inevitable unintended consequence of your actions……..

The haves either move themselves and their operations elsewhere or they stop producing. Hell your utopia breeds entrepreneurial stagnation when folks figure that the harder they work, the more successful they become….the more you take.

EVERYONE then figures it’s far easier and less stressful and better all the way around to say screw it and go with the flow.

Yeah baby…..sign me up for some of that!!!!

Gutting unions……more horse hockey. You can private sector unionize till your ears fall off…..couldn’t give a rats ass. But all states should be right to work states and any participation in a union should be voluntary.

But pulic sector unions should go or have never been allowed in the first place. That you seem unable to see the obvious evil in one side of a negotiation being the paid stooge of the other party shows you have little hope of ever “figuring it out”……and all the while they are scheming how to screw me out of more of my money.

Screw you and your theiving union cronies. EARN YOU OWN OR PISS OFF AND DIE.

Actually “they attempt to keep workers wages low” is a bullshit canard too. They oppose minimum wage nonsense. They do so because it has been proven to kill jobs.

You can look at where we are right now because right after they raised the min wage….folks started getting bounced.

I cannot charge more for a burger simply becauise the idiot you sent to Washington thinks the booger picking moron running my grill should be paid more. REGARDLESS of his skill set.

You folks simply cannot grasp what is entailed in running a businees because by and large most of you have never done so. It’s no coincidence you gravitate to public sectors jobs and union work. You need no indpendent thought to be a union automaton.

What else you got?

About 100 people at today’s “major” Tea Party rally http://yfrog.com/gz1jgcrj #losingsteam

Bye teabags!

More Liberty5 said:
Good point Voice of Reason. The US Constitution does not guarantee equal outcome or equal results. How successful or how much a failure you are is up to you. What the Constitution does is restricts federal government and empowers the individual with liberty.

Amen.

VoiceofReason said:
Bull crap. Socialism NEVER has worked. EVER. R

Never said I supported Socialism, so don’t put words in my mouth. I said people need to have their basic needs met. NEEDS are different than WANTS. If lots of people don’t feel like they can meet their needs, they will demand change.

VoiceofReason said:

More bull crap. Unless you are disabled or mentally ill, I don’t owe you shit. And with all the shit we have to go through over the crazy ADA you damn well better be pretty fu#ked up physically and mentally or get your ass to work. We made all sort of changes to the work “environment” and have added a plethora of new “diabilities” to have to cow to…….you damn well better be in an iron lung or get your lazy ass to work just like me.

No, perhaps you’re right that you don’t owe anyone a damn thing. But again. If you have a society where 50% of the society feels like they can’t get ahead, they will demand change, no matter what the system is. We’re not there yet in this country….but if we keep expanding the gap between rich and poor, we will.

There’s no “threat” that I’m making. It’s happened plenty throughout history.

Communism collapsed when people started to feel that the system didn’t work for them. The same has happened in non-Communist countries.

You saw it recently in Egypt. Even though the dictator Mubarak had some free market policies in place, a great percentage of the population still felt disenfranchised.

None of this is theoretical. Just look at countless examples in history.

Countries are most likely to revolt or turn to other forms of government (for better or worse) when large swaths of the population feel disenfranchised (usually during economic crises).

Sometimes the revolts have led to democracy, other times they have led to dictators or socialism.

America doesn’t need socialism, nor does it need to have massive redistribution of wealth…..but it does need to do something to address the rising economic inequalities.

Color Me Badd said:
About 100 people at today’s “major” Tea Party rally http://yfrog.com/gz1jgcrj #losingsteam Bye teabags!

Keep telling yourself that.

We aren’t the ignorant in the room CMB. We don’t depend on know nothings voting for Obama cash.

WE know exactly what you are the most afraid of.

Your side can’t go five minutes without telling us in vivid detail.

http://twitpic.com/4fcg88

This picture says it all, bye bye teabags!

mibwilso said:
Haha….this is the classic Republican assumption. That people who aren’t rich just “make poor choices” and “can’t compete”.

It’s kinda hard to compete when someone works for one of these oh-so-generous corporations who lays off workers while giving bonuses to those at the top……or who cuts salaries and benefits when the company is making record profits.

That doesn’t answer the question, but I’ll answer yours: If your employer sucks, find a better one. If you can’t find a better one, then you probably suck, and need to find a better you.

VoiceofReason said:
Keep telling yourself that.

We aren’t the ignorant in the room CMB. We don’t depend on know nothings voting for Obama cash.

WE know exactly what you are the most afraid of.

Your side can’t go five minutes without telling us in vivid detail.

http://twitpic.com/4fcg88

What are you talking about? I see at least 987,000 people.

More Liberty5 said:
The government should not be taking from one individual, via threat of force or prison, and giving to another. Welfare, regardless of the poor, rich or corporation, is wrong.

Another Amen!

More Liberty5 said:

Have you ever tried to get a federal permit or license for something? How efficient is that? If anything, government is very inefficient – ever been to the DMV.

We agree on that LOL. But, there are many things that governments generally get right. For example, it’s a lot more efficient to have a government police force than for every individual household to hire a private security team, right?

VoiceofReason said:
?

Why no response to the Heritage Fdn article? Because you know it’s true, perhaps?

Color Me Badd said:
This picture says it all, bye bye teabags!

Let me get this straight. A group of people feel that their government is over stepping their boundaries and as such they peacefully assemble and protest and show grievances towards their elected officials like $14 trillion in debt and $1.4 trillion deficit and you want them to go away? If people peacefully assemble and protest illegal wars started by various presidents would you also want them to go away? Or is this simply just about politics?

mibwilso said:
America doesn’t need socialism, nor does it need to have massive redistribution of wealth…..but it does need to do something to address the rising economic inequalities.

The federal government will never be able to fully address what you call “inequalities.” It’s impossible without violating others individual liberty. What the government can do is remove the various roadblocks that violate individual liberty.

mibwilso said:
The whole reason you have governments in the first place is to make the society run more smoothly and efficiently. You do this by collecting taxes and putting it towards things that benefit the society as a whole….like roads, schools, etc. It stands to reason that those who are wealthy have benefitted from this system too.

How so? How do they benefit more? Because they pay their money for a cetain thing and pay or work to keep it in nice order so that in a couple of years it doesn’t look like a scene from Terminator Salvation????

If anything the poor continue to get a free ride with regard to services too. The cops and fire are in Watts far more than they are in Westwood.

So you consume all the resources while not paying a dime for them……hell if anyone is going to get pissed off about the disparity it’s the “haves”.

Guess what……too late.

It’s already happened. We’ve had enough.

VoiceofReason said:

Especially blacks. …..

I think they see right now that we have an education system that fails many of them. This is a systemic inequality in this country.

If you’re poor, you’re basically destined to go to a terrible school. This means that those students start of 2-3 years behind their wealthier peers.

Even if they work hard, they start off way behind.

What do you propose doing about that?

If you believe that everyone who’s willing to work for it should be able to succeed, what do you propose doing to make sure that hard-working people (who happen to grow up poor) have a shot?

I agree that we should find ways to reduce dependency on government assistance…

….but how do you propose doing that when countless generations of poor people have found that, even working hard in school isn’t enough to get ahead?

More Liberty5 said:
Let me get this straight. A group of people feel that their government is over stepping their boundaries and as such they peacefully assemble and protest and show grievances towards their elected officials like $14 trillion in debt and $1.4 trillion deficit and you want them to go away? If people peacefully assemble and protest illegal wars started by various presidents would you also want them to go away? Or is this simply just about politics?

The federal government will never be able to fully address what you call “inequalities.” It’s impossible without violating others individual liberty. What the government can do is remove the various roadblocks that violate individual liberty.

Yes I want them to go away, if the tea party raged against the right people I would be with them but instead of protesting on Wall Street and wealth inequality, they are defenders of corporate power, so get lost or get on the right side of the issue.

mibwilso said:
Why no response to the Heritage Fdn article? Because you know it’s true, perhaps?

No it didn’t address the question I asked which was the crux of this string and what most of us had been discussing. The article didn’t detail the congresscritters involvement.

You know…they people Mediaite hacks are gleefully thumbing in the eye with this nonsense.

Try again.

Read….then pop off.

mibwilso said:
We agree on that LOL. But, there are many things that governments generally get right. For example, it’s a lot more efficient to have a government police force than for every individual household to hire a private security team, right?

Law enforcement, at the local level, is one practice I believe the government is allowed to do, and does fairly well. I think we can all agree that the government relies on force, or the threat of force in order to get people to behave a certain way. Throughout history, governments of all kinds have shown they are good at apply force either legally or illegally.

Additionally, the utilization of law enforcement is to protect the individual whose individual property rights or life have been threatened. If some person attempts to kill you then that’s a violation of your life, and if they steal it’s a property violation. Good laws are centered around the individual.

mibwilso said:
Yep. Exactly. You said it, not me. But if you think they’re for the average mom and pop, you’re kidding yourselves. That’s the biggest con job this country has ever seen: The Republican party has convinced poor white people across America that by supporting policies that favor the rich, maybe they too will one day be rich.

Real Americans do not een think about the rich in America, as far as we’re concerned it’s a given. We go to school, get a job and a wife, have a few kids, and if we’re ambitious our own business.

We make our own way, whatever that may be, in this world, enjoy our friends and family and simply live our lives.

I cannot for the life of me understand how the liberal/progressive minded individuals have gotten themselves so screwed up and un – American that not you no only believe we conservatives owe you a ( free ride, rent and insurance ) life of your own, you’re not embarrassedto scream itfrom the rooftops.

The funniest part of the whole rediculous arguement, is that you imbeciles have also convinced yourselves it is me that’s the dumb one, instead of the other way round.

More Liberty5 said:
The federal government will never be able to fully address what you call “inequalities.” It’s impossible without violating others individual liberty. What the government can do is remove the various roadblocks that violate individual liberty.

I agree in theory….but remember that sometimes one person’s freedom may infringe on someone else’s.

What do you do when someone uses their freedom to inhibit someone else’s?

That’s when the govt has to make a judgement call.

More Liberty5 said:
The government should not be taking from one individual, via threat of force or prison, and giving to another. Welfare, regardless of the poor, rich or corporation, is wrong.

One thing I hate is blatant dishonestly, which you exhibit with this statement. You have a problem with “spreading the wealth around”, that is fair. But you have no problem with GE not paying anything in taxes last year and my taxes went up. Really until the tea party starts addressing the real issues and not stuff that was invented by Bill Sammon at Fox, then maybe the country will take your gripes seriously until then, the tea party is a bought and paid for astroturf movement that is being propped up by corporate interests.

See in Wisconsin, those were people who were mad and had enough, not some protest brought to you courtesy of the Koch Bros, Americans For Prosperity and Freedumb Works.

Color Me Badd said:
Yes I want them to go away, if the tea party raged against the right people I would be with them but instead of protesting on Wall Street and wealth inequality, they are defenders of corporate power, so get lost or get on the right side of the issue.

You are aware that many in the Tea Party protested the bailout of wall street, as well as TARP. But the people they should be protesting are the ones that took the money and gave it to these firms – and that is the government. It is the government that takes under threat of force – not Wall Street.

Why should they protest wealth inequality? People should be allowed to make as much money as they can. What we need to protest is taxation inequality via the government. Almost half of the workers in this country doesn’t even pay income taxes, and the government also allows some of these corporations to not pay any taxes such as GE, Exxon and BOA. That’s not equal protection.

Color Me Badd said:
One thing I hate is blatant dishonestly, which you exhibit with this statement. You have a problem with “spreading the wealth around”, that is fair. But you have no problem with GE not paying anything in taxes last year and my taxes went up. Really until the tea party starts addressing the real issues and not stuff that was invented by Bill Sammon at Fox, then maybe the country will take your gripes seriously until then, the tea party is a bought and paid for astroturf movement that is being propped up by corporate interests.

Please show me a link, or any place where I said I have no problem with huge corporations such as Exxon, GE, or BOA not paying taxes. I never said that – your partisan ass just assumes that.

Barack Must Go said:
We make our own way, whatever that may be, in this world, enjoy our friends and family and simply live our lives.

I cannot for the life of me understand how the liberal/progressive minded individuals have gotten themselves so screwed up and un – American that not you no only believe we conservatives owe you a ( free ride, rent and insurance ) life of your own, you’re not embarrassedto scream itfrom the rooftops.
.

Well, asshole, this liberal makes his own way just fine and has never taken a dime of government welfare.

You as an individual don’t owe me as an individual anything.

The problem is that conservatives only want to take from society, not give back.

If you’re a successful businessman, it’s largely because of your own hard work….but it’s also because people have worked for you, given you business, and created laws and conditions that make it favorable for you to run your business.

My problem is not with someone having/making money.

My problem is that so many conservatives act so entitled. They don’t see how their fellow citizens and their government have created a system that allows them to be successful in the first place.

They routinely fail to see all of the ways that government and society benefit them….and so they refuse to believe that they should ever be asked to give back.

People use the system we have. People take Social Security because they pay into it and it’s the system we have. That doesn’t mean you can’t critisize it. Our tax dollars go towards war. Doesn’t mean we have to support the war. Why does the liberal left have the logic skills of a five year old? Tea Partiers can participate in our tax subsidy system because everybody pays into it. It’s the reality of our government. It certainly doesn’t mean they have to support it. I’m deeply disappointed that our media perpetuates this complete bullshit argument.

Color Me Badd said:
One thing I hate is blatant dishonestly, which you exhibit with this statement. You have a problem with “spreading the wealth around”, that is fair. But you have no problem with GE not paying anything in taxes last year and my taxes went up.

You are a liar and I’m calling you out. I never claimed or insinuated that I have no problem with GE or any of these other corporations not paying taxes. In fact it’s BS, and I’ve said so because that is not equal protection – thus a violation of the US Constitution. Now apologize or show me where I made such a claim.

mibwilso said:
I agree that the Constitution does not guarantee equal outcomes….and I don’t think it should. But the problem is that, too often, this country does not provide equal *opportunities* either. For example, the quality of school that a child can attend is too often a function of where they live. In other words, the people who are poor are also forced to go to some of the worst schools. Even if those people work hard and obey the law, how can they compete when their schools send them out to compete against other students who are 2-3 grade levels ahead? I know this because I am a teacher who has spent most of my career working in low-income schools. There are many hardworking parents who are doing their best to raise their kids right, but their kids automatically start out behind just because of the school they go to.

More whiney liberal bullshit. The reason why schools suck is because the govt. shouldn’t be in the business of running education. They are dumb as a bag of hammers and all they do is drag our kids down with them. Look at the numbers pre Dept. of Ed versus today. Kind of like how the Dept of Energy does us. Gotta love those high-minded liberal boondoggles.

And WTF does the condition of the building have to do with the quality of the education? I went to school in the south in a building built before the turn of the century. Three story brick with no AC and poorly working heat. My faimly was so poor my maternal grandfather had his first “indoor” toilet when we moved him to a nursing home. i was one of the first to even go to college and the first with advanced degrees. And while I got a littel money from pell grants, most of my education was self funded. While at univeristy I worked three jobs and operated on 2-3 hours sleeping stints. Yet I still owed you assclowns out the nose for the loans I had to take before I made good enough grades for scholarships. I also managed to help my working wife keep our home and raise three wonderful kids.

And guess what. I’m not god. I’m not even all the great a human being. But i did it. And I never thought I couldn’t if i was willing to put in the work.

And if those kids are 2-3 grades behind you are doing a shitty job teaching them. And or your screwed up system is perpetuating this nonsense and all of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Coupled with people who pump out kids for an increase in benefits or because they are too damn dumb to use a condom or abstain from casual sex and then care not about how they present these children to the world……prepared to participate or not……again NOT MY PROBLEM.

I’ll get to more in a bit.

More Liberty5 said:
You are aware that many in the Tea Party protested the bailout of wall street, as well as TARP. But the people they should be protesting are the ones that took the money and gave it to these firms – and that is the government. It is the government that takes under threat of force – not Wall Street.

Why should they protest wealth inequality? People should be allowed to make as much money as they can. What we need to protest is taxation inequality via the government. Almost half of the workers in this country doesn’t even pay income taxes, and the government also allows some of these corporations to not pay any taxes such as GE, Exxon and BOA. That’s not equal protection.

You are right people should be able to make as much money as they want. But do you agree that the playing field should be level for every American to achieve success and wealth. Because that isn’t the way it is right now. Take corporate taxes for example? When Exxon Mobil and GE get billions of dollars in a tax rebate and small businesses get the shaft then that isn’t a level playing field.

I am all for people being able to make money and keep their money, but I am not supporting the unfairness of this system, something you and the rest of the tea party never address.

skyfet said:
The useless media are just doing their homework 12 months late

What’s going on here? I agree with The Sky…but they’re not just 12 months late. More like years too late.

VoiceofReason said:
No it didn’t address the question.

I don’t care about those Congressmen. I’m addressing the larger issue of the Teabaggers feeding at the government trough….and then turning around and criticizing those who do.

The point I’m making with the article is that farm subsidies are going to wealthy corporate farms, who then in turn support politicians who will keep giving them $$.

More Liberty5 said:
You are aware that many in the Tea Party protested the bailout of wall street, as well as TARP. But the people they should be protesting are the ones that took the money and gave it to these firms – and that is the government. It is the government that takes under threat of force – not Wall Street.

Why should they protest wealth inequality? People should be allowed to make as much money as they can. What we need to protest is taxation inequality via the government. Almost half of the workers in this country doesn’t even pay income taxes, and the government also allows some of these corporations to not pay any taxes such as GE, Exxon and BOA. That’s not equal protection.

And the income tax argument that teabags always go to is a ruse and does not represent the majority of other taxes that corportations and the very rich never pay.

If you are in the top two percent or a multi billion dollar corporation and you are paying taxes, then you are stupid. The tax loopholes in the tax code were written so rich people and corporations don’t have to pay taxes. You can continue to use the argument about income tax but those of us who know the truth aren’t buying it.

VoiceofReason said:

And WTF does the condition of the building have to do with the quality of the education?

Nothing. Did you see anywhere in my comments where I said that? Didn’t think so.

VoiceofReason said:
And while I got a littel money from pell grants, most of my education was self funded.
.

Again, you’re just illustrating my point. You took tax-payer funded Pell Grants (a reasonable thing to do, given the cost of college)….but then get bent out of shape when someone else needs a hand up. And now you’re supporting the GOP, who is trying to cut the very program that helped you get started.

In the meantime, you seem very bitter about having to pay back the LOANS that you voluntarily took out. That’s not the government’s fault.

VoiceofReason said:
And or your screwed up system is perpetuating this nonsense and all of you should be ashamed of yourselves. …again NOT MY PROBLEM.

Again, you fail to realize HOW the system is perpetuated. It’s perpetuated because many of the most highly qualified teachers go teach in wealthy districts so they don’t have to deal with poor kids who have lots of problems. That has nothing to do with ideology or even the concept of public education itself, it’s just reality.

There are many problems with public education in lower income neighborhoods, but not all of them can be traced back to the parents/kids.

Color Me Badd said:
And the income tax argument that teabags always go to is a ruse and does not represent the majority of other taxes that corportations and the very rich never pay.

If you are in the top two percent or a multi billion dollar corporation and you are paying taxes, then you are stupid. The tax loopholes in the tax code were written so rich people and corporations don’t have to pay taxes. You can continue to use the argument about income tax but those of us who know the truth aren’t buying it.

You are either ignorant or a simple liar, but I believe it’s a little of both. The top 25% of taxpayers – those with an Adjusted Gross Income over $62,000 earned 67% of nation’s income, but they paid more than 4 out of every 5 dollars collected by the federal income tax (86 percent). The 48% of wage earners pain no income tax.

What would be fair and equal is if this nation did away with its tax code and instituted a flat tax. Every one pays a certain and equal percentage of their income. No deductions – nothing. Fair and simple, every one pays – no loop holes. And the same thing for businesses.

More Liberty5 said:
You are either ignorant or a simple liar, but I believe it’s a little of both. The top 25% of taxpayers – those with an Adjusted Gross Income over $62,000 earned 67% of nation’s income, but they paid more than 4 out of every 5 dollars collected by the federal income tax (86 percent). The 48% of wage earners pain no income tax.

What would be fair and equal is if this nation did away with its tax code and instituted a flat tax. Every one pays a certain and equal percentage of their income. No deductions – nothing. Fair and simple, every one pays – no loop holes. And the same thing for businesses.

Flat Tax Tee Hee.

VoiceofReason said:
While at univeristy I worked three jobs and operated on 2-3 hours sleeping stints. Yet I still owed you assclowns out the nose for the loans I had to take before I made good enough grades for scholarships. I also managed to help my working wife keep our home and raise three wonderful kids. And guess what. I’m not god. I’m not even all the great a human being. But i did it. And I never thought I couldn’t if i was willing to put in the work.

I think your hard work in putting yourself through school and raising kids is admirable. I just think you seem to be forgetting that, while you did most of the work yourself, you had a little bit of help along the way too.

My point is that there’s nothing wrong with that.

On top of that, it sounds like you went to public schools…and you seem to be doing fine. And somehow you ended up being enough of a free-thinker that you’re a conservative too!

The Teabags will be a small footnote in the history of our country years from now. Most Americans see what the tea party really is and it’s not about smaller government or deficit reduction.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/52207.html

VoiceofReason said:
Coupled with people who pump out kids for an increase in benefits or because they are too damn dumb to use a condom or abstain from casual sex and then care not about how they present these children to the world……prepared to participate or not……again NOT MY PROBLEM.

I just think this mindset is unfortunate and misguided. Most of the parents and students I work with really do want to be successful on their own and don’t want government assistance….and even view it as a stigma.

In fact, I do think that many African Americans that I know could potentially vote Republican….many of them are socially conservative and fiscally moderate.

But the problem is that many African Americans that I know only see the Republicans as being dismissive of them and dismissive of the circumstances of poor black people.

Like I said earlier most Americans now know what the tea party is really about. Stuff like this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/us/politics/31liberty.html

Odd Alliance: Business Lobby and Tea Party
By MIKE McINTIRE

The Tea Party does not have a presence in Indonesia, where the term evokes cups of orange pekoe and sweet cakes rather than angry citizens in “Don’t Tread on Me” T-shirts.

But a Tea Party group in the United States, the Institute for Liberty, has vigorously defended the freedom of a giant Indonesian paper company to sell its wares to Americans without paying tariffs. The institute set up Web sites, published reports and organized a petition drive attacking American businesses, unions and environmentalists critical of the company, Asia Pulp & Paper.

So what does that article prove CMD? That some special interests hijacked some group, or pretended to be some group. That happens all the time and it doesn’t surprise me.

But as you stated the other day, you are a liar. You admitted it in your retort to another reader when you said that the only difference between you and him was that he gets paid to lie, you don’t. So why should any of us believe a word you say?

At least mibwilso can have a mature professional conversaion. I even like discussing liberty and society with her/him. But you, just like other partisans regardless of leanings, are simply just hateful – although it is your right. I even agree with some of your issues like the fact that corporations should not get out of paying taxes or get bailed out.

But you can’t even carry on a human conversation. You must be in pain inside, I’m sorry.

Color Me Badd said:
Flat Tax Tee Hee.

?
So, what are your thoughts on a flat tax?

Color Me Badd said:
Most Americans see what the tea party really is and it’s not about smaller government or deficit reduction.

I don’t have time to read your links now, so what is the tea party all about?

Personally, I would like to see a flat-tax for individuals and companies. But that would be too fair and many here would not like it.

mibwilso said:
Well, asshole, this liberal makes his own way just fine and has never taken a dime of government welfare.

You personally may never have but you are here arguing for your”side” not yourself personally. You might be a decent dude/dudette. But your side sucks goat balls.

Sgt. Hulka says, “Lighten up Francis………………..”

mibwilso said:
You as an individual don’t owe me as an individual anything.

Again your side not you personally. See Sgt. Hulka above.

mibwilso said:
The problem is that conservatives only want to take from society, not give back.

More liberal bull squeeze. It’s a known fact conservatives give more than libs. Stop lying or obfuscating.

mibwilso said:
If you’re a successful businessman, it’s largely because of your own hard work….but it’s also because people have worked for you, given you business, and created laws and conditions that make it favorable for you to run your business.

More bullcrap.

You had it right before the ellipses. What about a person who did it all him/herself? What about the non-HuffPo people who got paid a tidy sum for their labor? If I didn’t have a good product at a fair price nobody would have “given” me their business so that is ca ca too.

Laws and conditions NEVER enhance business, regulations AL+WAYS impede and add costs.

Have you ever done anything besides teach school? Cuz it sure sounds like you have lived a mighty insulated life.

This is stuff my 18 year old about to graduate HS daughter knows and understands.

mibwilso said:
My problem is not with someone having/making money. My problem is that so many conservatives act so entitled.

WHAT??!?!?!?!?!? Entitled? To what? To get up before the sun, schlep my old tired broken down ass 45 miles one way to work all day, then schlep 45 miles home, to cook, clean, participate in my family, get a little exercise, do some work for my church or community, relax for 5 minutes and go to bed. I do this 5 days a week so I can spend my other two doing all the things I can’t squeeze into the other 5 like tending to my yard and home exterior, work on my cars, help my grown children with their problems or projects, spend a bit of time with my grand kids and my wife. Sunday morning I am committed to my church.

Want some of that? Be my guest and I will lay about and play computer games and smoke dope for a while. I’ve only been working for about 37 years…..maybe I am entitled.

All this and more to then give a large portion of the fruits of my efforts to you and folks like to to pass out to folks who refuse to even attempt the above. All because I have to pay my “fair share”. Like I said before……the cops are in Watts a hell of a lot more than they are in Westwood yet the Westwood people foot the ENTIRE bill.

I guess in LibbieLand that is fair and equitable. Too funny.

And we are supposed to be scared of your minions being tired of the short end of the stick. Too funny. BRING IT ON. I say most of your “warriors” will be too stoned or too lazy to fight. Or too dumb to operate the complex machinations of a map to find out where the hell the fight is.

Remember you will be fighting….not bussing in astroturf loud mouths.

mibwilso said:
They routinely fail to see all of the ways that government and society benefit them….and so they refuse to believe that they should ever be asked to give back.

Again, I contend that folks above the poverty line utilize faaaar less “resources” than those below it. I can’t remember the last time the fire dept. was at my house. Or the cops. Yet I pay for them to go to the poor folks house regularly. How is that equitable? Because some people work for me and I pay them for their labor? That isn’t even a cogent argument. How do you make it with a straight face?

As far as giving back…….we pay all the taxes.

How much more til you’ve taken enough?

Pablo said:
That doesn’t answer the question, but I’ll answer yours: If your employer sucks, find a better one. If you can’t find a better one, then you probably suck, and need to find a better you.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!!!

Color Me Badd said:
Yes I want them to go away, if the tea party raged against the right people I would be with them but instead of protesting on Wall Street and wealth inequality, they are defenders of corporate power, so get lost or get on the right side of the issue.

“Wealth inequality? What the hell is that? We already give handouts to the moochers, leeches and parasites. Many of the poor in tis country do fairly well. Their not gonna get rich but as long as they have the government tit to suck own they’ll be fine.

Meanwhile the producers who actually work for a living and create jobs are out there making money.

Most poor people are poor becaue of the choices they have made in life. Same goes for the rich.

mibwilso said:
I think they see right now that we have an education system that fails many of them. This is a systemic inequality in this country. If you’re poor, you’re basically destined to go to a terrible school. This means that those students start of 2-3 years behind their wealthier peers. Even if they work hard, they start off way behind. What do you propose doing about that? If you believe that everyone who’s willing to work for it should be able to succeed, what do you propose doing to make sure that hard-working people (who happen to grow up poor) have a shot? I agree that we should find ways to reduce dependency on government assistance… ….but how do you propose doing that when countless generations of poor people have found that, even working hard in school isn’t enough to get ahead?

Yet all your side does is thwart those who want to change this because of your being joined at the hip with unions.

Again……better hope they don’t find out any time soon or your asses are grass.

BTW, you don’t get less of something you subsidize.

The deal they discuss (eventually) is lousy. Don’t cut the amount in half, instead the dems should offer cuts to replace ones they dislike. $100 B is 2% of the current fiscal year’s deficit, and that is pathetic.

Well, I guess the countdown to the 2012 election begins now. Independents are really against the democrats ignoring the spending crisis.

mibwilso said:
I don’t care about those Congressmen. I’m addressing the larger issue of the Teabaggers feeding at the government trough….and then turning around and criticizing those who do. The point I’m making with the article is that farm subsidies are going to wealthy corporate farms, who then in turn support politicians who will keep giving them $$.

No. the point of the article is to attempt to point out hypocricy of some tea party favs.

Stop obfuscating. You almost admit the truth with your teabagger slam but then run from it with the rest.

This thread is about those people…..like it or not.

Once we’ve reached a concensus on them we might discuss whatever other ancillary issue you want to broach.

So, should they be forced to pass a drug test for accepting government money?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/kentucky.asp

mibwilso said:
I think they see right now that we have an education system that fails many of them. This is a systemic inequality in this country. If you’re poor, you’re basically destined to go to a terrible school. This means that those students start of 2-3 years behind their wealthier peers. Even if they work hard, they start off way behind. What do you propose doing about that? If you believe that everyone who’s willing to work for it should be able to succeed, what do you propose doing to make sure that hard-working people (who happen to grow up poor) have a shot? I agree that we should find ways to reduce dependency on government assistance… ….but how do you propose doing that when countless generations of poor people have found that, even working hard in school isn’t enough to get ahead?

More and more bull corn. If you are poor you wouldn’t have to go to a “terrible” school if we taxpayers were getting what we pay for. This is on you, your side and your union.

Stop deflecting. Sack up and admit you and yours are screwing blacks for the sake of p[olitical power plain and simple.

At least then i could respect your honesty.

As to starting off behind……i thought Head Start was the cure all for that? Funny but I remember reading that it really doesn’t matter. And when does some fo the onus fall to you, the teacher, the child, the parent and your union? I am not making little Johnny NOT do his homework. I am not letting little Suzie stay out all night so that she can’t concentrate in class and therefore can’t read. I don’t sit around and smoke crack and allow my kids to be thugs.

And why didn’t I start out behind? My family was poorer than poor. The town we were in was on it’s way down like much of the area.

And AGAIN……I’M NOT SPECIAL. People do it EVERY DAY. But those that do have either run out of excuses, time or other people’s money or good graces.

Paying people will not get you where you need to get and one would think you really samrt libbies could have figured that out since this failed experiment has been up and running going on 50 years now.

Where did any of us think that somebody working hard SHOULD succeed? You MIGHT. Damn who the hell told you that there were assurances? You should look them up and kick their ass.

Tey did you no service trapping you in LaLaLand.

As to the last……it isn’t my responsibility to solve your freaking problems. Or CMB’s. Or anybody elses. I have a full time fuc*ing job keeping myself on the right path and keeping my head above water financially.

Where the hell is it written that I am responsible for fixing things for you or anybody else for that matter?

WHO FIXED THEM FOR ME?

Let me help you……I DID. I worked three jobs. I did without sleep and fun for nearly 7 years. I ran myself ragged for another 10. I studied my ass off. I worked as hard as I possibly could and then looked to do more because I had a handful of folks depending on me to come through. I couldn’t look my kids in the eye and tell them Daddy’s too damn lazy to get up and go to class or do his homework or go to work.

You willing to make that commitment?

Barack Must Go said:
Real Americans do not een think about the rich in America, as far as we’re concerned it’s a given. We go to school, get a job and a wife, have a few kids, and if we’re ambitious our own business. We make our own way, whatever that may be, in this world, enjoy our friends and family and simply live our lives. I cannot for the life of me understand how the liberal/progressive minded individuals have gotten themselves so screwed up and un – American that not you no only believe we conservatives owe you a ( free ride, rent and insurance ) life of your own, you’re not embarrassedto scream itfrom the rooftops. The funniest part of the whole rediculous arguement, is that you imbeciles have also convinced yourselves it is me that’s the dumb one, instead of the other way round.

It’d be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

what a waste.

mibwilso said:
I think your hard work in putting yourself through school and raising kids is admirable. I just think you seem to be forgetting that, while you did most of the work yourself, you had a little bit of help along the way too. My point is that there’s nothing wrong with that. On top of that, it sounds like you went to public schools…and you seem to be doing fine. And somehow you ended up being enough of a free-thinker that you’re a conservative too!

I don’t begrudge a little bit of help but we have thrown TRILLIONS of dollars at these SAME problems liberals love to whine about with ZERO RESULTS.

I now have a PhD in engineering.

We have shitty test scores and poor graduation rates for your part.

Go fig why folks might not mind throwing me and bone and not your cause.

mibwilso said:
But the problem is that many African Americans that I know only see the Republicans as being dismissive of them and dismissive of the circumstances of poor black people.

Because your side has done a tremendous job of fuc*ing them over.

Wear it proud.

But watch your back becasue one day they will figure it out and you are in deep kin chee when they do.

Ask Reggie Denny about pissed off blacks and seemingly innocent whites.

njoy-d-ride said:
?So, what are your thoughts on a flat tax?

She’ll get back to you when somebody tells her what her thoughts on it are.

Lustreking said:
So, should they be forced to pass a drug test for accepting government money? http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/kentucky.asp

I have to pass a screening to earn it, seems only fair they pass one to freeload off it.

Gotta go. Been fun. Be safe all. Even you libbies.

Have a good evening and hug your kids.

Expressing your beliefs makes sense on social issues, but economically you have to look at history and show what works. Socialism does not work and has failed many, many times.

However, having no government spending in regards to the domestic sector is just as ridiculous. The issue is not wheteher we should give “government handouts”. It’s more about who gets them, how much money do we put in, and when.

In such a complex world, it’s more situational and our policies need justification through an educated manner instead of just personal beliefs. Unfortunately human error (bias and corruption) will bankrupt this country and we will lag behind China and possibly India too.

This is why I admire the liberal mainstream media and their investigative journalism when it is politically expedient for their agenda, none of them have highlighted the fact that Obama’s spending in only two years in office has made George W. Bush seem like a fiscal conservative.

According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) figures released 3 weeks ago,the budget deficit for the month of February alone was a staggering $223 billion, which means that the Obama administration added more in debt in one month(February) than was borrowed in all of 2007.

Obama grew the national debt by $3.6 trillion IN JUST 2 YEARS (for 8 years i.e. from Jan. 20, 2001, to Jan. 20, 2009, the national debt grew $3 trillion under Mr. Bush(from $3.3 trillion to $6.3 trillion). For those who do not understand: IN ONLY 20 MONTHS, MR. OBAMA ADDED AS MUCH DEBT AS MR. BUSH RAN UP IN EIGHT YEARS, and Bush is considered a fiscally irresponsible president.

Obama’s government has been borrowing $4.6 billion each and every day which is more than it cost to construct the world’s tallest building, Dubai’s Burj Khalifa. According to the Washington times, the amount of future productivity being sapped from the American economy would be sufficient to construct a new 160-story skyscraper every day of the year.

Jonathan Karl as a so called journalist now seems to have a problem with 5 MEMBERS of the Tea Party collecting a COMBINED sum of $8 million in 16 years(since Bill Clinton’s first term in office). I guess these folks don’t seem to know how ridiculous they sound. It is like a police officer watching someone live murder a pregnant woman with a knife, and just nearby someone else is violating a traffic rule, but for some reason the officer decides to go after the one who violated the traffic rule while ignoring the cold blooded murder.

NONE in the mainstream media has thoroughly addressed or ever covered Obama’s unprecedented spending, but they must think the American people are so stupid.

VoiceofReason said:
I have to pass a screening to earn it, seems only fair they pass one to freeload off it.

You realize of course that I’m talking about the teabaggers in the above story right? Right???

LOGICandREASON said:
Jonathan Karl as a so called journalist now seems to have a problem with 5 MEMBERS of the Tea Party collecting a COMBINED sum of $8 million in 16 years(since Bill Clinton’s first term in office). I guess these folks don’t seem to know how ridiculous they sound.

So, you don’t really have a problem with their hypocrisy? Because that’s the point of the article.

Logic and Reason,

So journalists should stop reporting on less important stuff and focus on what matters? Can we extend that to dismissing news stories on the birth certificate, NPR, styrofoam cups, and filling out a bracket? I would LOVE to see that but once again both sides love deflection from the actual problems (Social Security, IMMIGRATION).

Yes, Obama has spent more than Bush, but a big part of Obama’s budget has been defense, plus he’s had to pay more in unemployment insurance and other stimulus policies to keep the economy afloat, and government expenditures have gone up to do less gov’t revenue flowing in due to the economy.

Your name is as hypocritical as your view that we should focus on putting the magnifying glass on only the left.
The matter of fact is that coming off the best economic years in the 90′s our last TWO presidents (both are at fault), are the reason why we’re in such a hole right now.

GMA did more investigation on these five people that no one’s ever heard of then they’ve done on Obama during the past four years.

njoy-d-ride says:
I don’t have time to read your links now, so what is the tea party all about?
……………………………………………
Hypocrisy, spin, fiction, blind faith (not “fake” christian values) Obtaining 100% of their information from the tea “only” bubble and blaming each and every problem on liberals, even when they can’t back it up and/or have done far worse themselves, and finally hate, hate, hate!

But it was done legally right ?????
What did Barney and his crew make as bribes ??????????
enough said.

VoiceofReason said:
I have to pass a screening to earn it, seems only fair they pass one to freeload off it.

I love this!!!!!!

OxyCon said:
GMA did more investigation on these five people that no one’s ever heard of then they’ve done on Obama during the past four years.

Yep.

Hypocritical? Maybe. But it dont tip the scale away from the disingenuousness of basic liberalism. No one left leaning in this country would even agree, never mind do anything about, our tremendous defecit issues. How about we cut the shit altogether. The American left currently in charge of 2/3s of the country is pretty much open for intentional crashing of our system. Now we’re supposed to pay attention to $100,000 farm subsidies?

VoiceofReason said:
Laws and conditions NEVER enhance business, regulations AL+WAYS impede and add costs.

You’re kidding yourself. The government can often do things to promote business growth.

For example, local govts can do things like offer tax incentives so that companies will locate in their communities.

The federal government can give businesses tax deductions on buying new equipment or provide grants for R&D.

The government can invest in upgrading an airport to make it easier for people to travel (and make it more appealing for large companies to locate there.

Even right now, governments provide subsidies that encourage airlines to provide service to smaller size cities and airports.

The government also regulates things like patents, etc so that people can’t steal your ideas.

So, don’t buy the whole rhetoric about how govt. just can’t do anything to help businesses.

VoiceofReason said:
Have you ever done anything besides teach school? Cuz it sure sounds like you have lived a mighty insulated life.

In addition to teaching, I’ve worked in retail and I’ve worked in the non-profit sector providing educational services to low-income students & schools.

In addition, my father and mother owned and operated a successful small business for over 20 years and were able to sell it for a good profit….(and he’s a Democrat, by the way). They were plenty familiar with how government can both impede AND assist businesses.

So, I’m familiar with entrepreneurship and know what it takes. Please stop lecturing me about not knowing what it takes to run a business.

Just really tired of hearing Republicans lecture Democrats about supposedly not knowing how to run a business.

I come from a long line of entrepreneurs on both sides of my family. My father owned/operated his own business for over 20 years. His father before him owned a small dental practice and retired at age 80. Both are Democrats.

My mother helped run the family business for over 20 years and oversaw the bookkeeping. Her parents both come from generations of family farmers. Again, her side of the family are mostly Democrats too.

Entrepreneurial spirit is not unique to Republicans.

Steve_27 said:
Now we’re supposed to pay attention to $100,000 farm subsidies?

Farm subsidies are in the billions, actually….to the tune of over $171 billion

Even the libertarian-leaning Heritage Foundation acknowledges that.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2002/04/Farm-Subsidies-for-the-Rich-amp-Famous-Shattered-Records-in-2001

Steve_27 said:
Now we’re supposed to pay attention to $100,000 farm subsidies?

Oh, God no! Let’s not dare look at that! I mean it’s much more important to just talk about how it’s only the welfare queens want my hard earned tax dollars or the lazy unemployed or those high living teachers and firefighters. You know..”those” folks, blue collar and such. But these are just simple god fearing tea bagger types and I mean, who cares if they sucked 8 million from the teat of government, right? It’s not like your principals get in the way when a conservative does it right? Besides it screws up the narrative of being a rugged individual boot straps type right?

So just look away and .saaaayyy..where IS Obama’s birth certificate anyway?

captaingrumpy says:
But it was done legally right ?????
What did Barney and his crew make as bribes ??????????
enough said.
…………………………………………….
Legal, but double standards, your kids will inherit your debit, hypocrisy, self righteousness, fake christian values, spin, spin, spin! What ….”did”….. Barney and his crew make on bribes ????? Hurry go to a “tea only site” and check the spin! Zero!

This should be seen as a positive for those who would take a subsidy when it is deemed appropriate by the government, then get elected to the government and vote away that subsidy, in essence taking it away from themselves.
They should be given credit for doing this!
(Unless, of course, they know that those subsidies will continue despite their own votes.)

mibwilso said:
Just really tired of hearing Republicans lecture Democrats about supposedly not knowing how to run a business. I come from a long line of entrepreneurs on both sides of my family. My father owned/operated his own business for over 20 years. His father before him owned a small dental practice and retired at age 80. Both are Democrats. My mother helped run the family business for over 20 years and oversaw the bookkeeping. Her parents both come from generations of family farmers. Again, her side of the family are mostly Democrats too. Entrepreneurial spirit is not unique to Republicans.

Then why are you so eager to destroy it in a craven power grab? why do you place every impediment to business growth known to man in their path?

You said above that govt can put tax incentives blah blah blah……so in other words the lying thieving govt will let these poor slobs keep a few bucks more of their money if they will just give them some.

If you insert “mafia” for govt. I challenge you to explain how that isn’t extorsion.

The reason we lecture you folks is cuz you don’t know shit about business. Why if something is a worthwhile enterprise do yiou need MY MONEY to make a successful go of it? Sounds like you have a shitty business plan or crappy idea.

But fear not……the govt is the sauve for shitty business ideas!!!!! They will simply give you a bit of our money!!!! What a deal!!!

My dad was an astronaut but I won’t be piloting the space shuttle tomorrow.

Actually my dad was a worthless drunk car salesman who ran off on my mom and me but you get my point……..

Lustreking said:
Oh, God no! Let’s not dare look at that! I mean it’s much more important to just talk about how it’s only the welfare queens want my hard earned tax dollars or the lazy unemployed or those high living teachers and firefighters. You know..”those” folks, blue collar and such. But these are just simple god fearing tea bagger types and I mean, who cares if they sucked 8 million from the teat of government, right? It’s not like your principals get in the way when a conservative does it right? Besides it screws up the narrative of being a rugged individual boot straps type right? So just look away and .saaaayyy..where IS Obama’s birth certificate anyway?

When govt stops telling farmers what to do with their own land and their own efforts then I will sweat folks getting money from the govt for their farm.

You can’t waltz into my house and dictate what’s for dinner unless your buying and cooking and the dishes.

Can I come to your property and tell you to remove your trees or that I am going to bulldose the end of your driveway down 10 feet thereby landlocking you from the road?

VoiceofReason said:
When govt stops telling farmers what to do with their own land and their own efforts then I will sweat folks getting money from the govt for their farm.

No you won’t. You’ll find another excuse because they’re teabaggers. You’re principals. or lack of them are tissue thin.

VoiceofReason said:
Actually my dad was a worthless drunk car salesman who ran off on my mom and me but you get my point……..

Hmmm..if true that explains a LOT.