We seldom get snow in Central Texas, thankfully, but when we do I always booze it up and sleep until the thaw. I don’t see the story here.

The Real Royal King said:
We seldom get snow in Central Texas, thankfully, but when we do I always booze it up and sleep until the thaw. I don’t see the story here.

I don’t even wait until its snows before I do that just as long as the sun rises

‘
lol,, the reporter has a “speech impediment”
wtf?!

Scott_in_MI said:
I don’t even wait until its snows before I do that just as long as the sun rises

Well, you don’t live in the Bible Belt. We only drink when it’s dark and no one can see us.

The Real Royal King said:
We seldom get snow in Central Texas, thankfully, but when we do I always booze it up and sleep until the thaw. I don’t see the story here.

The story here is that there is evidence of malfeasance on part of DoS employees during the 6th worst blizzard in NYC history. People died because emergency vehicles could not reach them in time, many of them from things that could have been easily treated. One woman gave birth (to a child that unfortunately died) in the lobby of an apartment building in my neighborhood of Crown Heights because ambulances could not reach the street she lived on.

That was the case for the better half of a week. For four days after the storm, my neighborhood, let alone my street, was inaccessible to emergency services. If these accusations are accurate and the DoS intentionally slowed down clean-up, there is great cause for concern.

Hey , who’s to say the one guy doesn’t have an eleven hour doughnut break in his union contract ? Hmm ?

Atticus Draco said:
lol,, the reporter has a “speech impediment”
wtf?!

Nice. Do you laugh at the blind & disabled also?

Jayson said:
Nice. Do you laugh at the blind & disabled also?

if they tried to deliver the news i would,, i might even watch it for a couple of minutes for the hilarity factor,,
then of course,, after the novelty of it wore off ,,, I WOULD CHANGE IT BACK TO THE FOX NETWORK!!!

They have a bunch of pretty people there

Union labor is not always a good thing. These lazy/greedy workers took advantage of the very people who pay their inflated salaries. I think its past time to reevaluate Union labor’s contribution to our society.

The Real Royal King said:
We seldom get snow in Central Texas, thankfully, but when we do I always booze it up and sleep until the thaw. I don’t see the story here.

Fact: If you ever had this crap you would care if it snows or not! This was the worst beer of all times hands down!

http://wittlebills.com/vintage-gilleys-beer-can.htm

hanniballa said:
Union labor is not always a good thing. These lazy/greedy workers took advantage of the very people who pay their inflated salaries. I think its past time to reevaluate Union labor’s contribution to our society.

Not necessarily. This is coming out to be an extremely ill-advised attempt to protest DoS budget cuts that resulted in hundreds of layoffs, demotions and salary cuts. NYC rank and file DoS employees didn’t make much money before the cuts and now make even less. In that regard, I have sympathy for them. However, there is a time and a place to protest, and during a disaster that your department is specifically tasked to clean up is not one of them.

Stephen says:

The story here is that there is evidence of malfeasance on part of DoS employees during the 6th worst blizzard in NYC history.

Royal Pain in the Butt knows that, he doesn’t just couldn’t think of how to spin that into a positive so he deflected.

Union workers

hanniballa said:
Union labor is not always a good thing. These lazy/greedy workers took advantage of the very people who pay their inflated salaries. I think its past time to reevaluate Union labor’s contribution to our society.

And then you can get all them Mexicans to plow the snow. Sorry but these workers have had their salaries CUT. If tax payers don’t want to pay for services, you don’t get any services. Maybe it’s time for Americans to realize that the solution to all our problems isn’t always to cut taxes.

But still, if Chris Christie can spend the blizzard in Disney World, Joe Schmo Sanitation Worker can spend his in Dunkin’ Donuts.

So to be clear A Kim Bo, you have NO criticism for union members that delibertely sat down on the job resulting in serveral deaths? I just want to make sure I have your position correct.

Atticus Draco said:
if they tried to deliver the news i would,, i might even watch it for a couple of minutes for the hilarity factor,,then of course,, after the novelty of it wore off ,,, I WOULD CHANGE IT BACK TO THE FOX NETWORK!!! They have a bunch of pretty people there

Is there a brain located in your head?

Stephen Hogan said:
However, there is a time and a place to protest, and during a disaster that your department is specifically tasked to clean up is not one of them.

Yeah, that’s not protest, that’s extortion and dereliction of duty. Anyone guilty of it should be fired, and then they can hire back some of those laid off people.

A Kim Bo said:
Sorry but these workers have had their salaries CUT. If tax payers don’t want to pay for services, you don’t get any services.

Now they should have them cut to zero. You don’t want to do the work, you don’t get the check. You draw a check, you do your job. They had a job to do and having a tantrum isn’t part of it.

There should be hell to pay, from the workers who participated in the slow down, through the supervisors and shift managers who ordered it, and all the way to the Mayor who created the adversarial conditions that allowed this sort of thing to happen in the first place. Lack of integrity all around.

This doesn’t, however, constitute the entirety of the union membership, nor does it serve as a good reason to destroy all unions. But that won’t stop the reactionary right wing from trying. And away we go…

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
So to be clear A Kim Bo, you have NO criticism for union members that delibertely sat down on the job resulting in serveral deaths? I just want to make sure I have your position correct.

This would be an interesting answer to read.

Paul Westlake said:
This doesn’t, however, constitute the entirety of the union membership, nor does it serve as a good reason to destroy all unions

I was hoping you would chime in Paul, you’re being right there in the thick of things, so to speak.

How would you feel about charges of negligent homocide for all who were involved?

I’m afraid you’ll get an argument from me on public sector employee unions, and oddly enough, there are some private sector unions taking my side on this issue. Their story is that public sector unions are supported by taxpayer dollars and when public sector employees get a raise, taxes go up.

Maybe I’ve been lucky in that I’ve never needed a union to help me earn more money or secure my job, but having seen what happens in Europe, I’ve always had a disdain for unions. On one occasion, my wife and I spent 6 hours on an abandoned train in Italy, because the union crews stopped the train and simply walked away. (Greece has also had some terrible experience with unions.)

That said, I suppose I should have some empathy for all those people who cannot get a job or a raise in pay as based on their own merit.

Paul Westlake said:
away we go…

Please forgive me if I am wrong about your being in NYC, it seems you stated once that you do live there.

Nahu Tuk said:
I was hoping you would chime in Paul, you’re being right there in the thick of things, so to speak.

How would you feel about charges of negligent homocide for all who were involved?

Yep, I’m in Brooklyn and I wasn’t as bad off as some parts, but my block wasn’t plowed until late on Tuesday. And many blocks around me weren’t plowed until Wednesday – my block is on an access route to the expressway.

I think negligent homicide assumes knowledge of impact, if not intent. I would guess involuntary manslaughter would be the most to go after. And I have no problem with that in circumstances where an assignment was intentionally ignored and death or injury resulted. Trying to punish every instance of slow down in the same way, regardless of outcome for the residents on different blocks, is problematic for the courts. But I would welcome an independent investigation with subpoena power to recommend disciplinary action for all involved where injury didn’t result, including firings. I think unions that coddle members to the point of getting away with abusing the public need to get a wake-up call, for sure.

Unions are necessary and important, because management would just push us all into indentured servitude if they could, but that’s no excuse for ignoring the job or abusing the people who pay your salary and that needs to be dealt with openly and directly. But the problem with trying to reform unions from the right is that the conservative movement has a terrible track record when it comes to the union movement in general. And the anti-union forces have been just as violent, if not more so, throughout history…

- http://www.lutins.org/labor.html
- http://www.witnessforpeace.org/downloads/Col_Union_factsheet.pdf

It took Nixon to go to China. It’ll take a lefty to reel in the unions. Just the way things seem to work in our process.

Stephen Hogan said:
The story here is that there is evidence of malfeasance on part of DoS employees during the 6th worst blizzard in NYC history. People died because emergency vehicles could not reach them in time, many of them from things that could have been easily treated. One woman gave birth (to a child that unfortunately died) in the lobby of an apartment building in my neighborhood of Crown Heights because ambulances could not reach the street she lived on.

Your version of the story isn’t correct. The ambulance got there in 12 minutes once her call was determined to be an emergency. It looks like there more factors involved than just DOS workers. Of course the mother is looking for someone to blame though.

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=31149
You can see the childs sad story near the bottom of the article.

Typical union hacks. Selfish Lib union hacks. I quite like the warfare that is developing between union hacks and non-union people. It’s the right thing to do…putting these amoebas of society in their place. ‘Publick Skool’ teachers are getting kicked in the face, with good reason. They don’t care about ‘education.’ They care about their pay and their vacation time. And these city union hacks…they only care about the color of the next Cadillac Escalade they’ll buy.

Paul Westlake said:
This doesn’t, however, constitute the entirety of the union membership, nor does it serve as a good reason to destroy all unions. But that won’t stop the reactionary right wing from trying. And away we go…

And right on cue…

ChrisNH said:
Typical union hacks. Selfish Lib union hacks. I quite like the warfare that is developing between union hacks and non-union people. It’s the right thing to do…putting these amoebas of society in their place. ‘Publick Skool’ teachers are getting kicked in the face, with good reason. They don’t care about ‘education.’ They care about their pay and their vacation time. And these city union hacks…they only care about the color of the next Cadillac Escalade they’ll buy.

There is no war. Just a ginned up frothing-at-the-mouth reactionary hatred and all-encompassing fear, fostered by corrupt Republicans and their paymaster in big business… as usual.

One of the highlights of this posting to me is getting to see WCBS-TV anchor Dana Tyler again. I used to live in the NYC tri-state market. She is still, at 52, one of the most watchable news anchors in NYC TV. And did you know she’s Phil Collins’ girlfriend?

I know, not too significant when discussing issues of life and death, but between Dana and WABC’s Liz Cho, they NYC TV viewers are quite fortunate.

Carry on.

Stephen Hogan said:
The story here is that there is evidence of malfeasance on part of DoS employees during the 6th worst blizzard in NYC history. People died because emergency vehicles could not reach them in time, many of them from things that could have been easily treated. One woman gave birth (to a child that unfortunately died) in the lobby of an apartment building in my neighborhood of Crown Heights because ambulances could not reach the street she lived on.

That was the case for the better half of a week. For four days after the storm, my neighborhood, let alone my street, was inaccessible to emergency services. If these accusations are accurate and the DoS intentionally slowed down clean-up, there is great cause for concern.

This conduct is outrageous. I had hoped this old style NYC City employee behavior was a thing of the past but obviously things have not changed.

Paul Westlake said:
It took Nixon to go to China. It’ll take a lefty to reel in the unions. Just the way things seem to work in our process.

Paul, I hope this link works for you. If not, I hope you will do a search on the Democratic Socialists of America, and look into their involvement in unions. Of course, I’m certain you are already aware of the influence of organized crime in unions, but if you’re not, the web contains innumerable links on the subject.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=inwi10s22a3q81f

Paul Westlake said:
It took Nixon to go to China. It’ll take a lefty to reel in the unions. Just the way things seem to work in our process.

I hope you don’t mind that I call you by your first name. Nahu Tuk is the name given me by my mother & father. I have an anglo first name but I don’t use it here.

Nahu Tuk said:
Paul, I hope this link works for you. If not, I hope you will do a search on the Democratic Socialists of America, and look into their involvement in unions. Of course, I’m certain you are already aware of the influence of organized crime in unions, but if you’re not, the web contains innumerable links on the subject.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=inwi10s22a3q81f

Well, that link went to some excellent nature videos on Wisconsin public TV (love the white deer but I think the collars are killing the martens). Otherwise, nothing on unions and organized crime. But I am aware of the connections. I don’t think there are too many NYers who don’t know what kinds of things have gone on over the years. I’m in favor of sensible laws and enforcement that gets more rigorous as the impact of the crime grows. Corrupt unions victimize people through the institutions that serve them. White collar crime does the same, but in both instances, it’s management’s response that has the potential to inflict the most pain on the people who have the least to do with the problem. That’s where government enforcement is supposed to step in, but continually deregulating, slashing budgets and appointing industry insiders to watchdog positions has left America nearly incapable of enforcing the people’s rights in all this.

In the final analysis, the people are under no obligation to allow either unions or corporations to exist at all. We have the right to determine the course of our economy and if we choose to abolish horizontal integration altogether, and limit vertical integration to immediate business needs, while simultaneously abolishing unions and instituting a wage ratio on all enterprises doing business in the Unites States, we have every right to do that. There is nothing in the constitution that tells us what our form of economy is supposed to be, just our form of republican government. What I would like to see is someone who has the balls to assert the people’s rights in all this stupidity…
“Hey, nitwits, none of you has the right to hold any segment of the American people hostage to any of your selfish demands. If we want to create a fascist economy, we can. If we want to create a socialist economy, we can. If we want to abolish money, we can. So why don’t you two sit down and start acting like grown-ups before we take the fire truck away and nobody gets to play with it anymore.”

You know, something like that. ;-)

Nahu Tuk said:
I hope you don’t mind that I call you by your first name. Nahu Tuk is the name given me by my mother & father. I have an anglo first name but I don’t use it here.

Are you kidding? That the most polite thing I’ve ever been called around here. Thanks for the conversation.

Paul Westlake said:
Thanks for the conversation.

I try to treat others with resepct for so long as they will allow it. Still, I noticed you flamed me in the previous day’s post when I commented on Armwoods rantings.

Clearly, I sent you the wrong link. Try this one, knowing that not only has organized crime had a stranglehold on most unions for decades now, but so do these loons.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

I liked some of your rationale on our rights to decide what institutions we support or eschew–that’s what capitalism is really all about. The ONLY matter that I would take issue with has to do with the Constitutional aspect of “providing for the general welfare” (as opposed to the welfare “state.)

In your community, YOU own a piece of that firetruck (I own maybe a lugnut on the one in my community), and YOU pay the people who operate and maintain it. These people serve at YOUR pleasure but it seems many of them–and the politicians–have the opinion that you serve at THEIR pleasure. When enough citizens band together and petition their grievances to government, things will change. If they do not, that same band of citizens have the obligation to remember their grievances at the next election.

One only hopes the next flock of politicians would be better than those who are voted out. I could go on and on about how the democrats and republicans play “We the People” by keeping us embroiled in petty arguments while they do an end run around our freedom, but I don’t want to add 14 more pages to this post.

Nahu Tuk said:
I try to treat others with resepct for so long as they will allow it. Still, I noticed you flamed me in the previous day’s post when I commented on Armwoods rantings.

Well, you and I seem to be having a perfectly adult conversation here, and then I read your blanket generalities about all liberals in other threads and I wonder if it’s the same person. Honestly, I don’t know why you choose to attack all of us in some threads if you’re capable of the nuances we’re discussing here. I can be very reasonable and totally obnoxious, for sure. But when I see people vacillating between reasoned debate and flame wars with people like Armwood – Armwood!? – it makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Armwood can be condescending, but no more than anyone else here. And he almost never makes stupid arguments. It just mystifies me that you can be so circumspect here, and so belligerent there. If you were facing off against one of the more nutty lefties here, I’d understand and stay out of it. But Armwood!? I’m just not seeing it.

Anyway…

Nahu Tuk said:
Clearly, I sent you the wrong link. Try this one, knowing that not only has organized crime had a stranglehold on most unions for decades now, but so do these loons.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

I liked some of your rationale on our rights to decide what institutions we support or eschew–that’s what capitalism is really all about. The ONLY matter that I would take issue with has to do with the Constitutional aspect of “providing for the general welfare” (as opposed to the welfare “state.)

In your community, YOU own a piece of that firetruck (I own maybe a lugnut on the one in my community), and YOU pay the people who operate and maintain it. These people serve at YOUR pleasure but it seems many of them–and the politicians–have the opinion that you serve at THEIR pleasure. When enough citizens band together and petition their grievances to government, things will change. If they do not, that same band of citizens have the obligation to remember their grievances at the next election.

One only hopes the next flock of politicians would be better than those who are voted out. I could go on and on about how the democrats and republicans play “We the People” by keeping us embroiled in petty arguments while they do an end run around our freedom, but I don’t want to add 14 more pages to this post.

I’ve had two opportunities to join unions in my life and both times I turned it down. There are many reasons unions need to be reformed and rethought. But management needs an overhaul, too. It’s what I call a classic case of when assholes meet. Nobody is clean in the ongoing struggle between management and organized labor, and nobody in the trenches cares to hear what the other side thinks or needs. You are 100% right that they work for us – we own the buildings, the trucks, the infrastructure and pay all the bills. But we’ve been so thoroughly disenfranchised that nobody has a clue how to go about fixing it from the outside, and nobody on the inside has an incentive to fix it. And the rabid partisanship keeps both sides from reaching anything approaching common ground.

As for the Democratic Socialists, I’m more of a straight progressive myself. I believe in the mixed economy – capitalism for those sectors that thrive on the profit motive, socialism for those sectors that do not require competition for growth and are not efficiently delivered via the profit motive alone, a combination where neither is purely true. I’m wary of any group, right or left, that claims to have a solution that requires a wholesale restructuring of our entire economy and way of life. Things are bad, but not so bad that it’s time to throw off everything and start over. Too often, third party movements are too extreme to be beneficial to the dialog. I think there’s room for a third, even a fourth party in America. But not fringe parties. A real progressive party would do well and a real business party would also do well. The Reps and Dems are essentially protectionists now – all of them. A legit third party has to speak to economy as tool, not our lifeblood.

The economy is supposed to churn, and the social safety nets are supposed to allow the people to stay above the churn and not get ground up in the teeth of creative destruction. It is beneficial to workers AND small business to have a flexible workforce, capable of surviving without a job for long enough for a sector to evolve and start hiring again. But big business doesn’t likey. Protecting the old system is merely protecting obsolete industry. That used to be the exclusive purview of the left – protecting jobs. Now it’s universal, because the jobs are gone and the only thing left is campaign donations. So, yes, it’s both Dems and Reps. But I have slightly more faith in the Dems because they aren’t trying to dismantle the welfare state. Spending will be the least of our problems if demand dries up enough to collapse the American market.

Paul Westlake said:
I’ve had two opportunities to join unions in my life and both times I turned it down.

I would like to believe your choice to not join a union has something to do with your pride as an individual–that you believe joining a union would bring you down to the lowest common denominator. I am fiercly independent, I partly explained why in my response to you on the Allen West story of the previous day. I also explained why I flame some people and not you.

For me, the progressive agenda is dangerous. Idealistic, yes, but there are many aspects that are purely destructive IMO. I believe in capitalism and in studying its history, I see capitalism as the one idea that made the US great–apart from all other countries.

It would take the whole part of my observations to explain why progressivism is not the way I would choose to go but the short story is that it places the rights of individuals under the purview of man, and I believe a thing that is given by man can be taken away by man. Our Constitution is based on the premise that our rights are given by something bigger than man. I choose to call that something “God” but you can call it what you will.

Progressivism seems to deal with collective rights. I do not believe in collective rights, as this would eventually lead to classism. It’s the same premise as collective salvation; I believe I am responsible only for my own actions and that every other individual is responsible for theirs. I do not want my success–or salvation–to be dependent on the actions of any other individual. The idea is hateful to me and it makes others responsible for my actions–they are not.

I believe, therefore, that societal safety nets while in rare cases are necessary, are vastly overused. These safety nets are expanding every day: At one time, for instance, Social Security was intended to provide only for people who had retired. Now, Social Security has been expanded, which is one of the two reasons why it is bankrupt. (The other reason is because the politicians figured out how to raid the fund; LBJ tapped SS to fund the war in Vietnam, and that was the beginning of the end.) Had I had the choice to NOT have SS tax confiscated from my income, I would have been able to invest the money and earn a much greater return. Yet, I accept that some in our society are not as financially responsible as I am, and the SS fund was set up for the irresponsible amongst us.

The laws of nature demand of us that we continually adapt. The buggy whip maker–while perhaps skilled at his craft–had to adapt, too. This is realism. I would venture to guess that you, too, have made some adaptations and expanded your skills in order to place yourself in a position to compete in your profession. This is growth, and growth is good. Had we not had growth, we would still be cooking on wood fires and hunting antelope. So, I guess you could say that I’m against protectionism, too. I would not want to fund the buggy whip manufacturer, no matter how skilled he might be at braiding buggy whips.

Would we have developed penicillin had we clung to the old ways of practising medicine? Would we have developed solid state electronics had we subsidized vacuum tube manufacturers and bent the rules to require a certain number of vacuum tube radios be consumed by the public every year? I’ve cited a couple of examples of why regulation can be bad for us, but I’m savvy enough to realize that some regulations can be good. We have, thanks to Nixon, OSHA, MSHA, and BLA that keep our workplaces safe and such. This is a good example of regulations but what about those regulations that have driven industry from our shores?

It’s a fact that the tonnage of iron and brass poured and smelted each year has gone up but the EPA caused those jobs to leave the US and now we are forced to buy our iron and brass from foreign countries. The same is true for steel. Those jobs, and the revenues generated from those workers, could well have stayed here had the progressive agenda not interfered. The same is true of oil production. I did some checking on a comment posted by a geologist on this site and searched my way back to a report written by Robert Hirsch, written in the 70s. Our oil production peaked back then at 10,000,000 bbls/yr. Now, the US produces only 5 million bbls/yr but uses 20 million bbls/yr. We are forced to buy the shortfall from people who don’t like us very much. Say what you will about oil, but it is our life’s blood and it will remain so for the foreseeable future. The DOE (another progressive idea) has been in operation since the mid 70s and still has not led to the development of viable alternative energy sources. And, the EPA set standards for emissions from refineries, foundrys, and steel mills in the mid 70s that are still impossible to attain! That’s progressivism; it’s a nice idea but from all I can see, it’s a dismal failure when it comes to reality.