If MSNBC is involved, a more appropriate term is mis-education. They are the foremost experts in the field.

Identity politics at NBC News? I am shocked!

Well, not that shocked… actually, make that completely expected.

A good project would be educating Chris Matthews . And you can start by learnin’ him his ABD s.

I find it interesting (and a little confusing too) that Public Education has failed the Black Community for about 50 years now and the Democrats still have them coming back to the trough for more.

Getting the feds to toss more money at your schools won’t do it.

Wise up folks…after 50 years failing you…1 more won’t do it for you.

Think Charter Schools! They have proven themselves in the past.

LOL!

Don’t you mean “RE-EDUCATION” – as in the ‘Progressive Camps’ (i.e. Public School System)!

Is this education or indoctrination? Oh wait it’s NBC.

BatBoy said:
I find it interesting (and a little confusing too) that Public Education has failed the Black Community for about 50 years now and the Democrats still have them coming back to the trough for more.

Getting the feds to toss more money at your schools won’t do it.

Wise up folks…after 50 years failing you…1 more won’t do it for you.

Think Charter Schools! They have proven themselves in the past.

Looks like you are the one who needs a little education. Charter schools certainly have not proven themselves. Pick up a copy of a new book by Diane Ravitch called The Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice Are Undermining Education. She’s a former Bush Sr. education official and believer in No Child Left Behind who saw the light when she started analyzing the date. Charter schools have not been and are not getting it done.

paulmdoro said:
Charter schools have not been and are not getting it done.

Sure, Paul. And that’s why the parents in my neighborhood are fighting to get their kids into these charter schools….because they perform so badly and don’t match the fine standards in the bureaucratic state schools.

While you’re at it, Paul, why don’t you share statistics showing that the Post Office delivers faster than FedEx and that the Social Security fund has a huge surplus. I’m sure there must be books proving those points too. And it’s good for comic relief to hear leftists like you defend the amazing efficiency of government monopolies.

Isn’t it an oxymoron using msnbc & education in the same headline?

Haven’t any of you heard or read the level of reasoning posited by msnbc anchors & their viewers?

C’mon people, where are the adults here?

felixw said:
Sure, Paul. And that’s why the parents in my neighborhood are fighting to get their kids into these charter schools….because they perform so badly and don’t match the fine standards in the bureaucratic state schools.

While you’re at it, Paul, why don’t you share statistics showing that the Post Office delivers faster than FedEx and that the Social Security fund has a huge surplus. I’m sure there must be books proving those points too. And it’s good for comic relief to hear leftists like you defend the amazing efficiency of government monopolies.

Please try again felix. That is anecdotal evidence. Yours is one neighborhood in all of America. Do you really think that a single neighborhood represents the entire education system in the United States? Do some research. Read the book I recommended. You might learn something.

Did you see me defend the public school system? I said charter schools are not a miracle cure, because they are not. I never said anything about our public school system. It might be tough, but for kicks see if you can avoid putting words in my mouth.

paulmdoro said:
Please try again felix. That is anecdotal evidence.

Hey, Paul, here’s something for you to read — a study of education in 29 countries that found that competition produces better results.

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748703909804575123470465841424.html

Of course, that should be obvious to everyone already, since lack of competition always leads to inferior results. Too bad the left in this country works tooth and nail to prevent parents from having any choice in in our state-run educational system.

No charter schools aren’t the whole answer. But they are a step in the right direction.

Again felix, choice is not the answer and hasn’t produced positive results in this country. Since you like the WSJ, here’s something for you to read.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704869304575109443305343962.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Regarding charter schools, a pro-charter school Stanford economist conducted a national study evaluating charter schools and found that “17% of charters got higher test scores, 46% had gains that were no different than their public counterparts, and 37% were significantly worse.”

So an overwhelming 83% of charter school students got test scores that were the same or significantly worse. Would you say that signifies success?

From the same article: “NAEP compared charter schools and regular public schools in 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2009. Sometimes one sector or the other had a small advantage. But on the whole, there is very little performance difference between them.”

That does not sound like a step in the right direction to me.

paulmdoro said:
choice is not the answer and hasn’t produced positive results in this country.

It would be hard to tell what school choice would achieve, since the Left has pulled out all the stops to prevent parents from having vouchers. So it’s never really been tried in the US.

And the left needs to continue to be vigilant. Because once parents get a little taste of being able to choose the schools for their children, they will never agree to go back to the inefficient government monopoly. So you better keep on working, Paul, to keep vouchers out of the hands of parents. But limiting individual freedom and propping up a bloated government bureaucracy should fit perfectly with your ideology.

How odd, though, that so many of the leftwing politicians trying to prevent parents from leaving the public school system send their own kids to private school. Shows you what they really think. They want the choice for themselves, but not for others.

paulmdoro said:
Looks like you are the one who needs a little education.

Here is what I know…The Public School System has FAILED the Black Community all over the US. In our community, only a fraction of kids graduate…then their lives are doomed to the hood.

Charter schools are NOT the end all be all. We have had a few problems with them here.

However…they beat the innercity schools hands down as fare as quality of education.

If charter schools are not the answer, then what is. Spending more money on a failed system.

I just think it is people like you to do an injustice to people in the inner city … somehow convincing these people you are on their side….Please!

BatBoy said:

I just think it is people like you to do an injustice to people in the inner city … somehow convincing these people you are on their side….Please!

I have taught in the inner city. In fact, I have taught in two poor urban schools, one in Milwaukee and another in Philadelphia. Have you? How are you on their side? You don’t know anything about me and it’s quite foolish and presumptuous of you to speak of what you no absolutely nothing about.

felixw said:
It would be hard to tell what school choice would achieve, since the Left has pulled out all the stops to prevent parents from having vouchers. So it’s never really been tried in the US.

And the left needs to continue to be vigilant. Because once parents get a little taste of being able to choose the schools for their children, they will never agree to go back to the inefficient government monopoly. So you better keep on working, Paul, to keep vouchers out of the hands of parents. But limiting individual freedom and propping up a bloated government bureaucracy should fit perfectly with your ideology.

How odd, though, that so many of the leftwing politicians trying to prevent parents from leaving the public school system send their own kids to private school. Shows you what they really think. They want the choice for themselves, but not for others.

Do you ever say anything that isn’t a right-wing talking point criticizing “the left?” Do you actually have thoughts of your own?

I have actually taught in public, private, and charter schools in three different states. I have firsthand knowledge of our school system. I am not saying the system works and needs no reform. I am saying that choice and charter schools have not worked. Ignore the facts and figures all you want so you can continue to bash liberals and spout right-wing ideology.

You are flat-out wrong about school choice. Given the chance to send their kids elsewhere, most parents opt not to and keep their kids close to home. They feel more comfortable with neighborhood schools.

More on choice from Diane Ravitch: “The districts with the most choice for the longest period — Cleveland and Milwaukee — have seen no improvement in their public schools nor in their choice schools.”

And of course it should be know and not no.

paulmdoro said:
I have actually taught in public, private, and charter schools in three different states. I have firsthand knowledge of our school system. I

I think that qualifies you for being part of the problem, not part of the solution. I now understand where you’re coming from. The people working for the monopolies are always the once most opposed to competition and choice.

In contrast, it’s hard for reasonable people — who aren’t part of the education bureaucracy — to be so opposed to allowing parents some freedom of choice. But I’m hardly surprised that members of the educational bureaucracy would want to dictate to the parents, and block their alternatives.

felixw said:
I think that qualifies you for being part of the problem, not part of the solution. I now understand where you’re coming from. The people working for the monopolies are always the once most opposed to competition and choice.

In contrast, it’s hard for reasonable people — who aren’t part of the education bureaucracy — to be so opposed to allowing parents some freedom of choice. But I’m hardly surprised that members of the educational bureaucracy would want to dictate to the parents, and block their alternatives.

I don’t know if you willfully ignore what I write or don’t bother reading it in the first place, but it’s like trying to engage in conservation with a wall. You don’t understand anything because you don’t know me. You’re certainly in no position to tell me I’m part of the problem.

Once again, I am not advocating the status quo. I am not saying the public school system is fine as is and doesn’t need change. Got that?

What I am saying, and what you can’t seem to grasp, is that choice and charter have not produced results. Not even close. In some cases, as I mentioned, charter schools have displayed worse results than public schools. What good is choice felix if the alternatives are the same or worse?

Do you know anything about public schools and education outside of the right-wing talking points you’ve picked up over the years?

paulmdoro said:
You don’t understand anything because you don’t know me.

I understand exactly what your views are. As a teacher you want to take money from the parents, but give them no choice over schools. Nothing could be clearer.

And I love your characterizing individual freedom as “a right wing talking point.” Very quaint!

I propose that we change the name of the Bill of Rights to the Ten Rightwing Talking Points. This would be a fairly accurate description, since the Left sure doesn’t want to talk about them.

felixw said:
I understand exactly what your views are. As a teacher you want to take money from the parents, but give them no choice over schools. Nothing could be clearer.

And I love your characterizing individual freedom as “a right wing talking point.” Very quaint!

Yes felix I became a teacher to take money from parents. I was laughing all the way to the bank with my $30,000 a year salary. I really showed them!

Once again, what good is choice felix if the alternatives are the same or worse?

Paul, I probably would agree with you if I were a teacher. Same as if you ask the guy working at the post office, he will tell you that the mail service would be better if you got rid of FedEx and UPS. But real world experience shows that government-run bureaucratic monopolies never are as efficient or as results-oriented as competition-based system.

Yet, let’s assume for a moment that you are correct. You stated before that most parents will still choose the same old neighborhood school even under a voucher system. If that is so, why are you so dead-set against allowing parents this choice? You should have nothing to be afraid of from competition. But the fact that teachers unions have been the most ardent foes of choice in every situation makes it look as if they are more interested in preventing competition — as any professional tries to do, if they can get away with it — and not improving education.

For my part, on principle I tend to believe people should be free to choose, and not have government dictate these matters to the very people paying for government. You should ask yourselves what gives you the right to take this choice away from parents. It’s clear to me that the education bureaucracy is so ardent in fighting choice because they realize that, once parents are free to choose, they will never again allow the government monopoly schools to limit their options to these broken schools again.

But even if the two options produced identical results, I would favor one that empowered people and not bureaucrats.

I have taught in public, private, and charter schools felix. I’m not “scared of competition.” If you base everything you know about teachers from right-wing talking points, you know very little about them. If choice produced results I would probably feel stronger about choice schools. But they don’t. Plus, schools are not like corporations. They can’t be run like a corporation. One of my principal’s came from the business world and had no background in education (something that has become increasingly common). She had no clue how to effectively run a school. You can support choice because it fits your worldview, but I’d rather support school reform that works.

paulmdoro said:
I have taught in the inner city. In fact, I have taught in two poor urban schools, one in Milwaukee and another in Philadelphia. Have you? How are you on their side? You don’t know anything about me and it’s quite foolish and presumptuous of you to speak of what you no absolutely nothing about.

You are correct, I do not know you…but I know how effective you have been. You haven’t. Pouring more money into a fail system is makes no sense to me. To you, it does. Why…I do not know.

The difference between you and me is you are not willing to take that step to make an improvement…keep the status quo…maybe it will change.

With me…I see at least 50 years of a public Education System that has FAILED the minority community. Absolutely FAILED. I am willing to say, lets take some of this money and really change it, try something to make it better.

You…hide behind some book someone said that Charter Schools may or may not be that effective. Maybe in a macro level that may be right. But when the Democrats still bring the minority community together with a 50 year history of broken promises…I say…let’s try something else….you say…lets study it some more, in the mean time lets keep plowing more money into a proven failed system.

I never said any of the things you attribute to me. Why are you putting words in my mouth? Again, you have no clue what you are rambling about. None whatsoever. Most people would be bothered by that but you really embrace it.

I also worry about your reading comprehension skills, or rather lack thereof. I said I am not in support of the status quo. I said I favor school reform. I said our education system is far from perfect. Got that? It really isn’t rocket science.

Since you are such an expert, how do we fix our schools? What does a good school look like? A good school system? If you were a principal or superintendent, what would you be doing?

paulmdoro said:
If you base everything you know about teachers from right-wing talking points,

There is a Cost Account concept called a “Sunk Cost,” which means… “A cost already incurred that is not able to be affected by subsequent actions and thus has no relevance in evaluating future decisions.”

What Felix and I are saying is that there has been literally billions of tax dollars sunk into public education that is failing our inner city youth, which doubles and triples the drop out rate in suburban schools. http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16

With all due respect Paulmdoro, just because you worked in inner city schools does NOT make you an expert. Likewise, neither am I. But I do hear the results and I see the amount of money poured into these institutions just to maintain status quo.

My origional point was that Public Education has failed the minority community for the last 50 years and yet the minority community still comes back for more of the same. I can predict that the current promises will be broken, you, however, one who is in the system cannot see it….and to justify your position, you call it “right wing talking points.”

Again, I say to the minority community…the Democrats have failed you for 50 years and will continue to fail you for the next 50. Take a step back people…you can beat this…but when you still line up for the same slop, you will get the same thing.

paulmdoro said:
I said I am not in support of the status quo. I said I favor school reform.

What I am saying is that your solution IS status Quo….You have proved over and over again.

How do I fix the schools? You obviously have not read anything…me telling you one more time is a lost cause.

I am not and never said I was an expert. But I do have direct knowledge and experience, which you do not. I know education issues are far more complicated than the “unions and Democrats are evil” rhetoric.

Once again, I agree that the system isn’t working. School reform is needed. I am not disagreeing with you. I also don’t much care for Race to the Top, which could end up being the disaster No Child Left Behind was.

What’s the solution? And I don’t mean “more choice.” How would you turnaround a failing school district? What does a good school look like to you?

BatBoy said:
What I am saying is that your solution IS status Quo….You have proved over and over again.

How do I fix the schools? You obviously have not read anything…me telling you one more time is a lost cause.

You haven’t told me anything about how to fix failing schools. I think that’s because you have no idea how to. Prove me wrong.

I also have not said anything about supporting the status quo because in fact I don’t support it. You seriously have no idea what you are talking about and extremely poor reading comprehension skills.

PaulMDoro

Lets say you come over to my house and rang my door bell. I came to the door, use my baton to beat your butt. You go home bloddy, but come back again next week.

Next week, you ring my door bell, I open the door and see you and I take my baton again and beat your butt one more time.

I am just curious…how many times would you come back to get your butt kicked?

Well thinking about it…you would probably be back many more times…maybe even over a period of 50 years.

BatBoy said:
PaulMDoro

Lets say you come over to my house and rang my door bell. I came to the door, use my baton to beat your butt. You go home bloddy, but come back again next week.

Next week, you ring my door bell, I open the door and see you and I take my baton again and beat your butt one more time.

I am just curious…how many times would you come back to get your butt kicked?

Well thinking about it…you would probably be back many more times…maybe even over a period of 50 years.

Wow. That’s poetry. You are a wordsmith.

And, like I thought, you have absolutely no idea how we should go about fixing failing schools. Which is fine, because it’s a tough issue, but be man enough to admit it. Your comments about education and school reform have displayed the intellectual curiosity, complexity, and reason of a 3 year-old throwing a tantrum because they didn’t get ice cream at the store.

paulmdoro said:
f you base everything you know about teachers from right-wing talking points

You keep me laughing Paul. I say that taxpayers who pay for the education system should have some choice, and you keep calling this a “right wing talking point.”

Is freedom of speech a right wing talking point?

Is the right to a fair trial a right wing talking point?

Is taxpayers having some say over how their money is spent a right wing talking point?

I repeat, you want to take money from the parents to finance your vision of education, and want to deny them a choice of schools. This is not about talking points, but about real things happening in the real world. What gives you the right to impose your vision on others, extracting money from them, while dis-empowering them? For you to try to make this sound like some issue of rhetoric is intellectually dishonest.

And to say because you work for the government-imposed monopoly gives you extra credibility here is ludicrous. You have a vested interest in preventing parents from having choices. Education is provided by the government for the benefit of students and parents, and not as an insider’s game for the benefit of teachers. If you want to find out how good a restaurant is, you ask the customer not the waiter The same is true of schools. You are the least objective party in this debate.

Once again, for the illiterate (please have someone read this for you), I have taught in public, private, and charter schools, and I believe school reform is needed.

You lecturing someone on objectivity is priceless. Truly.

You have very little idea what is happening in the world of education. Just keep repeating “choice good” and “unions bad.” That seems to be about all you know and understand.

Paul, you think “school reform is needed.” Sure, we all do. What a brave statement. But for you to say that I have “very little idea what is happening in the world of education” is totally unsubstantiated. You have no idea what my background or qualifications are. So quit offering opinions on things you don’t know.

I am not just repeating “choice good” and “unions bad” — I am stating (what should be obvious) that the taxpayers who cover the entire cost of the education bureaucracy should have some say over how they utilize the schools they are financing. It is tremendously arrogant for you, as a teacher, to want them to cough up all the money and then have no recourse except to send their children to broken schools. I understand why you, as a participant in the failed government monopoly, prefer such an arrogant power play, but don’t except the people paying the bills to smile while they cover all the costs and get zero say in the resulting system.

So go ahead an cheer for government bureaucracy, but stop the smarmy, condescending comments to the people who pay all the teachers’ salaries and for the huge bureaucratic infrastructure that comes with them.

what a joke-where is the Parents responsibility in this discussion?

it is not the schools that are failing the children (white, black, purple, blue) its the parents at home.all the children are in the classroom together.they are getting the same instruction.schools aren’t segregated.the parents need to pay attention to their kids schoolwork when they get home.

Rachel Phillips Steele said:
its the parents at home.

Or not at home, as the case may be.

Exactly!! I will be VERY surprised if Tamron & MSNBC address this AT ALL in this “series”. Until this gets addressed, everything else is just expensive & largely wasteful window dressing. I am a Dem, and have volunteered in my kids PS in various capacities, but I am becoming fed up seeing how some people bring kids into this world, and then either expect the rest of us to raise them, or eventually imprison them when they prove socially dysfunctional after largely raising themselves. I don’t agree with it, but I certainly understand Conservative’s “gated-schools & Communities” mentality. Don;t believe it? Drive down to the Projects one evening & see the 3 & 5 year olds being supervised (maybe) by older brother or sis, taking in God knows what inappropriate modeling behavior, then do a tv series telling me that the Public Schools are failing because they can’t accommodate both types of students.
Hey Tamron: how about exploring a program that intervenes at the Middle & HS levels, that teaches kids about themselves, & how they came to be where they are because of poor parenting skills, and how they might break the cycle for their own kids, instead of blindly repeating the self-defeating cycle of kids raising kids. Some child-psych 101 & some role playing could be a powerful program. Put THAT in the program & I’ll be sure to tune in.

Charles Bennett said:
Exactly!! I will be VERY surprised if Tamron & MSNBC address this AT ALL in this “series”. Until this gets addressed, everything else is just expensive & largely wasteful window dressing. I am a Dem, and have volunteered in my kids PS in various capacities, but I am becoming fed up seeing how some people bring kids into this world, and then either expect the rest of us to raise them, or eventually imprison them when they prove socially dysfunctional after largely raising themselves. I don’t agree with it, but I certainly understand Conservative’s “gated-schools & Communities” mentality. Don;t believe it? Drive down to the Projects one evening & see the 3 & 5 year olds being supervised (maybe) by older brother or sis, taking in God knows what inappropriate modeling behavior, then do a tv series telling me that the Public Schools are failing because they can’t accommodate both types of students.
Hey Tamron: how about exploring a program that intervenes at the Middle & HS levels, that teaches kids about themselves, & how they came to be where they are because of poor parenting skills, and how they might break the cycle for their own kids, instead of blindly repeating the self-defeating cycle of kids raising kids. Some child-psych 101 & some role playing could be a powerful program. Put THAT in the program & I’ll be sure to tune in.

Agreed. Most of these kids have almost no chances for betterment almost from the start, and are the victim of circumstances the schools can’t fix. But don’t expect any host on MSNBC to touch on the collapse in family structures, out-of-wedlock births, broken marriages, and other social factors contributing to all this bad (or non-existent) parenting.

unfortunately broken families, oow births, single parent families are here to stay but there ARE plenty of fine examples of a Mother or Grandmother doing a Herculean job of raising a kid or kids right. And money is not the answer—love, nurturing and daily guidance ARE. Bill Cosby tried to address this and got shot down. Obama is literally a product of this process, yet from what I’ve seen he’s reluctant to chastise. There are fantastic Administrators & Teachers doing their level best every day, but again, look around in any PS–the kids on track are the ones who have good parenting—single or otherwise. I KNOW we can’t make a good parent out of a worthless f***, (I have literally seen first-hand a free cheeseater who keeps one 14 yr old boy away from the estranged Dad so she can get her check every month). this boy has now predictably committed his first Felony, because she chooses to keep him in the projects. No, the children (soon to be parents) must be armed with self-knowledge if they are to have any hope of breaking the cycle.

We should have a right to say where we want our tax dollars to go when it comes to educating our children. If parents had to write a check to pay for their child’s education every month instead of having it ‘painlessly withdrawn’ out of their paychecks there would probably be an all out mutiny.

Clay Boggess
http://www.BigEventFundraising.com

Absolutes will not solve the educational crisis. Some here blame schools. Some blame parents. Others blame the government. Still other blame teacher Unions. I will even go so far as to say educational curriculums have suffered a decrease in standards over the years, as have the quality of our teachers. The fact is that it’s a little of all of those things. I came from a dysfunctional family. My mother had little to do with my education. I don’t even know which of her husbands was my father (and don’t care) but I did great in school. My son comes from a two parent, long married household where both his parents are available to him and his school 24/7 (we work at home) and we have an active partnership with his school yet he has had a horrendously bad education and a good deal of that is because of the state we live in, the County we live in, the reduced standards in education and teaching, and in his particular case, the schools he has attended. Yes, I said schools. We have changed states & schools numerous times including public, private, charter, boarding, and even home school trying desperately to find an adequate placement for him. The fact is that our educational system is broken (like our government) and it has been broken for so long that there is no ONE solution to the litany of problems involved. The solutions will have to be gradual, over time, involving every one on every level from the government on down to the parents and children themselves. It won’t be fixed overnight and this is unfortunate because we have already seen generations of children lose potential future oppurtunities in higher education and employment because they lack the adequate education, and now this will continue for at least a generation more (or two) while we fix the mess we created.
I only hope that this effort at reform will be genuine (how many times have we heard the reform refrain only to see no changes or worse changes?) and that as part of the reform, they address the kids who have already graduated from the failed system and had their futures impacted by the poor education they received. These kids are too soon to be the prominent adult demographic in government, business, institutions,working class, teachers, and more. I am genuinely fearful not only for their own well-being (in terms of being able to support their families and make a better life for their children) but also for the state of this country going forward. When you compare American students to many other developed and even some under-developed countries, our kids simply are not making the grade in comparison and have not been for some time now. This is a dangerous development in an ever increasing global economy.

I didn’t mean to imply that parents were the sole issue–just the primary. I agree with most of your assessment, but I would ask “why have the standards decreased over time”? And I would also ask that with that much movement & searching, are ALL of the schools & solutions you have sought for your son been found lacking? Good for you to rise above your dysfunctional background, but I would say you are the exception, not the rule.

As a parent who has spent thousands of dollars on attorneys fees in an attempt to obtain “FREE” basic educationa instruction for my child, I am amazed that the pubic is surprised at a faiing Education system.

State and Federa agencies investigated and found a denial of a FREE education when my son was in the sixth grade. Our pubic schoo addressed their non-comkpiance by refusing to provide services for the foing years. It was up to us to provide instruction and provide weekly progress reports to the schoo district (who conitnued to collect funding).

Without a suit being filed, the pubic school district agreed to pay for a private school for 11th and 12th grade.
My son exceled and was sucessfu in Cal/Trig and Spanish III for his Senior Year.

When his GPA placed him at the top of his graduating class that he was dually enrolled in at the pubic school, the pubic school disctrict reduced his fina grade lowering his cass rank down to #9. The public school not ony excuded my son From a Free and Appropriate Pubic Education during a critical deveopmental stage in his life, they put an effort into excluding him from schalarships that he has had to work double time to earn.

In the rea world, this woud be discrmination. In the pubic school district, it is acceptabe practice for the to use educational tax dollars to pay for attorneys to keep themseves and our kids out of the rea word.

See speech that was given at a recent fundraiser . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY8aJEW_bmg

The 3 guys today are just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. The purpose of education was defined in the late 18th century by Thomas Jefferson as “Raking a few geniuses from the rubish” Todays purpose should be different but it is not. Nothing will succeed until this fundamental change is made. Taking students from where they are. Look at Kansas City and Dr. Covington as he goes for real reform. It takes a book to resolve this and I have 2. Saving Students from a Shattered System http://www.wholechildreform.com

I love the villification of teachers that is taking place. I have the students for 1 hour a day. Where is the responsibility of the parents who have had the children for the past 12-13 years before they enter my room. No matter how engaging my lesson, if the parents do not value learning & appropriate public behavior, my message may be lost. “Calling home” is often in effective as some parents are not involved in their students lives. So, where is the ACCOUNTABILITY for parents? I have yet to ever hear of consequences for parents when THEIR offspring fail to perform to their potential.

As the superintendent of a small school in Illinois that is 88% low income, I cannot believe it took 46 minutes to hear the word “relationships.” Now waiting to hear “relevancy.”

Talk to Superintendent Dr. Covington from the Kansas City MO school system to understand the problem of education.

Drs Gray and Hill and that group “get it” but it still will not work unless we put schools under the structure suggested in “Saving Students From A Shattered System” We do not have the Stepford kids. Kids don’t start walking at the same time, talking at the same time, but beginning in the first grade they must learn at the same time, the same way, in the same seat all on the same day. This does not make sense. This isn’t just unethical, it is IMMORAL! http://www.wholechildreform.com

Look at Chugach Alaska, Adams county Colorado Kansas City Mo. Save the kids now! The reinventing Schools people out of Alaska “get it”. So do we http://www.wholechildreform.com

Sally, I want to visit your school. Caplee@wi.rr.com

I do not give a rats backside about selling books. I am just sick of looking into the eyes of students being pushed out of school.

The “education” system in this country should be torn down and rebuilt from the bottom up, it is antiquated and a joke. Dropping out is not just a minority problem. I know plenty of white, middle and upper class children that have dropped out. The first problem is TEACHERS! Get rid of tenure, a good portion of teachers just want to get that tenure and once they do forget it, the turn into lousy teachers. You don’t get tenure in any other profession. School districts can’t even fire bad teaches because of tenure. I would love to that in the private/business sector, who wouldn’t? They don’t care about students, just their unions and what they can suck out of taxpayers. Their unions refuse to give up anything! They need to work in the private sector and see what the REAL world is, having your benefits reduced and paying more for them. Getting 2% raises, or no raise at all. You get fired if you don’t perform.

The other problem is this Zero Tolerance school districts have. Good God, you can’t look left or right without being reprimanded or suspended. But it’s okay for teachers to not have to abide by Zero Tolerance. They can still belittle children, and they do! They still have their ‘teachers pet’ while they ignore the kids who really need help and could use some positive mentoring.

I know this from experience with my child, the public school system failed him. I have been an extremely involved parent, so don’t give me the crap about parental involvement. My child is a smart, creative child and certain teachers just sucked the creativity and love of learning right out of him, and other kids I know. We all know teachers label kids and those labels follow them all the way up to the 12th grade. My child, and others, were belittled, bullied, had put down remarks made to them, made fun of, and I could go on. Once they hit middle school and see the hyprocisy they start to fight back against it. Of course that just creates more problems for the students because they aren’t allowed to stand up for themselves, they have no rights, it’s all balanced against them and for the school and teachers.

In 12 years of dealing with the public school system my child had about 5 great teachers, and he flourished with those teachers. After 10 years of the public school system we removed him and sent him to an alternative school and he excelled beyond expectations. Why? Small classroom, 2 great teachers, less time sitting in a desk being bored to tears, independent learning structure, empowerment of your own education, immediate results of work completed, technology based learning, and respect for the student and teacher. The teachers cared!
It wasn’t cheap, but worth every penny. When a student can earn almost 2 years worth of high school credit in one year in this kind of learning environment, what does that tell you about our public schools?

Alternative schools like this can easily be implemented anywhere using the same taxpayer, state and federal monies the public school system gets. In fact they have been implemented in some parts of the country, these are not charter schools either. Some school districts already contract with these schools for at risk students.

We need more alternative schools, not charter schools, etc.

KAREN HUNTER SAID IT, A NEW SYSTEM IS NEEDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Many ideas are good but without it, nothing

http://www.wholechildreform. ps I am too old to worry about making money, I am about KIDS!

GREAT NEWS!!! A new system has already arrived! While satirical in nature, the alarming resemblance to reality is frightening.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/increasing-number-of-parents-opting-to-have-childr,17159/

wow–breaking news-this just in: some kids don’t like all of their teachers.

I am really sick of hearing about blacks & latinos not having the same opputunities. AND they are always the most unemployed. No one makes them accountable. My grandchild lives in a bad zipcode and he is 1/2 latino. He is very proficiate in reading & math. I have been very involved in his school and HE is held accountable for bad grades or homework that is not finished. At some point you have to make these childrren accountable for their bad choices. All the money in the world will not change anything if parents and the child are not held accountable. With my involvement in the schools I have seen some very good teachers that have children failing because they have no control over these children. And that starts at home. Everyone is ready to blame the teachers, try blaming the absent parents.

Education is insurance for a quality life. Like insurance, those who say they can’t afford it, can’t afford to be without it. -John Jenkins/National Educator and Motivational Presenter / e-mail: peptalk@peptalk.com  / Facebook: John Jenkins / Twitter: JohnPeptalk

ummm im sorry but they werent talkin bout all blacks and latino’s just they have the highest percenteg and if ur sick nd tired of hearin it well stop watchin it pluss no offence but sometimes there is nothin the partents can do cause they got no education for them self u cant always blame the teachers but not the parent ether and it depends what kinda school u go to

u should re think what u just said