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We Can Only Hope: Michael Moore’s ‘Final Thoughts’ On Osama Bin Laden Killing

by Tommy Christopher | 10:08 pm, May 12th, 2011

» 77 comments

Right near the end of the second week of Osama bin Laden‘s fish-feeding tour, rabble-rousing liberal filmmaker Michael Moore has issued what he calls “Some Final Thoughts on the Death of Osama bin Laden,” which is doubly good news, for me. Not only do I get to look forward to Moore finally shutting the f**k up about this, but because I missed his first several eruptions, it also affords me the opportunity to serve up a Super Big Gulp of STFU, ice cold, on tap.

In case you missed it, Moore’s initial reaction to the slaying of bin Laden was to pen an instant My Chemical Romance hit by saying “We’ve lost something of our soul here in this country,” because our SEAL team didn’t roll the dice that bin Laden didn’t have several blocks of C-4 stuffed in that TV he stole from the guard shack of his compound.

His lament, ironically, was that bin Laden hadn’t been captured so that he could receive that most American expression of justice, a fair trial. It’s ironic because, in the same breath, he denied that SEAL team the presumption of innocence that’s at the heart of our justice system, accusing them of performing “an execution.”

Moore’s final thoughts offer more of the same, but padded out with copious amounts of Dick Service™. Dick Service is like lip service, except you use it to paper over the dickish things you want to say later in your piece. For example, Moore lauds the SEALs he just accused of “executing” bin Laden thusly:

Here’s my take: I know a number of Navy SEALs. In fact (and this is something I don’t like to talk about publicly, for all the obvious reasons), I hire only ex-SEALs and ex-Special Forces guys to handle my own security (I’ll let you pause a moment to appreciate that irony). These SEALs are trained to follow orders. I don’t know what their orders were that night in Abbottabad, but it certainly looks like a job (and this is backed up in a piece in the Atlantic) where they were told to not bring bin Laden back alive. The SEALs are pros at what they do and they instantly took out every adult male (every potential threat) within a few minutes – but they also took care to not harm a single one of the nine children who were present. Pretty amazing.

That is pretty amazing, as is the fact that Moore can’t think of another way to describe killing someone who likely could not have been taken alive safely an “execution.”

He does take this opportunity to walk back, without apologizing, that “execution” claim (which he made repeatedly, with utter certainty) a teensy-tiny bit: (emphasis mine)

Perhaps there was no way to bring him back alive – I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be in that dark house trying to make that snap decision. But if the execution was ordered in advance, then I say we should be told that now, and we can like it or not like it.

Well, Mike, “if” you have to say “if,” then you shouldn’t be going around saying “he was executed.”

Michigan native Moore, though, uses the goodwill he thinks he has banked to tell New Yorkers how wrong their reaction to bin Laden’s killing was:

But before leaving to go to the former World Trade Center site, I turned on the TV, and what I saw down at Ground Zero was not quiet relief and gratification that the culprit had been caught. Rather, I witnessed a frat boy-style party going on, complete with the shaking and spraying of champagne bottles over the crowd. I can completely understand people wanting to celebrate – like I said, I, too, was happy – but something didn’t feel right. It’s one thing to be happy that a criminal has been captured and dealt with. It’s another thing to throw a kegger celebrating his death at the site where the remains of his victims are still occasionally found. Is that who we are? Is that what Jesus would do? Is that what Jefferson would do? I was reminded of the tale told to me as a kid, of God’s angels singing with glee as the Red Sea came crashing back down on the Egyptians chasing the Israelites, drowning all of them. God rebuked them, saying, “The work of My hands is drowning in that sea – and you want to friggin’ sing?” (or something like that).

Yes, far less reverent and classy than celebrating the momentous event’s effect on your Twitter follower count.

There are a lot of things that Michael Moore is qualified to speak about, and while 9/11 was a tragedy that struck the entire nation, no one who wasn’t there has a right to judge those who were, who choked on the smoke and the tears as they watched that horror unfold, unsure what would happen next, or who still have to look at that hole in the sky where so much of our American soul once stood. If they wanted to sing “Waltzing Matilda” and do the wave, Michael Moore has nothing the f**k to say about it.

The rest of it is more tone-deaf bullshit, like trying to compare the bin Laden killing to V-J Day, as if there will ever be anything this close to a V-T Day for the American people to rally around, to steady, if only slightly, the ground beneath our feet that was yanked away that day.

Moore sums it all up with emo swagger:

A killer of 4,000 (counting the African embassies and USS Cole bombings) got double-tapped in his pajamas. Assuming it was possible to take him alive, I think his victims, the future, and the restoration of the American Way deserved better. That’s all I’m saying.

He’s right about one thing, we did deserve better. Like Moore, I would have loved to have seen bin Laden stand trial in the United States, and after the “guilty” verdict, waited for him to get shanked in the shower before having my “kegger.” Maybe that makes me a bad guy, and a bad liberal, but I’m not going to judge any American for wishing an even more monstrous fate on him, or for celebrating the paltry amount of long-delayed just we did manage to get.

Michael Moore, My Chemical Romance, Osama bin Laden

greg454

Hey Navy Seals, would you really work for Michael Moore? Come on, that man hates America!
http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/
turk281

Bravo, Tommy.
Dem4Ever

Micheal Moore, you need to watch your back. You have betrayed BO and his minions. They have tasted blood with the killing of OBL and they like it. The Libs/Progs are an unforgiving gang and they never forget about people like you. Don’t start your own car, buddy! They are pissed!
lazzzlo

What an “EPIC” column.
Barack Must Go

Just be prepared ” real ” America because the degenerate libs are ready to throw this one ( actually three ) of their own, Michael Moore under the bus… AGAIN.

That can only end in tragedy, spelling death and destruction for the innocent’s on board, as the impact will undoubtedly send the bus careening off the road, down and embankment, killing everyone on board.

Oh the humanity…..or in this case HUGE MANATEE !
news rat

Tommy, take a pill and calm down. Why are you getting so annoyed with what Moore is blabbing around? It’s his right to be wrong, but it’s also his right to say it publicly. Telling him to STFU is trying to deny him his basic right – to speak. I’m not saying to let it go – challenge him, convince him he’s wrong, warn him his reasoning is false, just don’t tell im to shut the f*** up. That seems a bit unamerican.
damien

Barack Must Go said:
Just be prepared ” real ” America because the degenerate libs are ready to throw this one ( actually three ) of their own, Michael Moore under the bus… AGAIN. That can only end in tragedy, spelling death and destruction for the innocent’s on board, as the impact will undoubtedly send the bus careening off the road, down and embankment, killing everyone on board. Oh the humanity…..or in this case HUGE MANATEE !

It’s called thinking for yourself. Liberals tend to be better at it that conservatives (or at least the conservatives who post here), despite the conservative claim that they’re fighting for individual rights. If a liberal says something stupid, other liberals are able to call them up on it without feeling they’re betraying their side. Guys like you, however, have to double down and defend them relentlessly whenever Hannity displays obvious hypocrisies or Beck mocks people weaker than himself.

Unlike you, liberals just don’t need other people to do their thinking for them.
Liberal Tormentor

Thanks for the laugh Damien! You and Tommy both know that if the president had an R behind his name, you’d be applauding Moore. Don’t bother denying it. The second best part of UBL’s demise is watching you libs twist yourselves into pretzels defending things you abhore. I’ll bet the sales of pepto have gone through the roof!
http://gordonbloyershow.com gordonbloyershow

damien said:
liberals just don’t need other people to do their thinking for them.

LOL, somebody better do your thinking for you, you can’t seem to get it right on your own.
See a doctor to see if crack is right for you.
http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

Tommy did you go to “Ground Zero” or the White House gates after the President’s announcement? This is at least your second post in defense of those who made those choices, but I haven’t seen you say that you were there. Perhaps you celebrated in a similar manner in the privacy of your home and you don’t like Moore or Sesno harshing your buzz, but your feelings are no more or less valid than anyone else’s. They are your own.

As for this idea that only those born in the city are “real” New Yorkers and everyone else is spending goodwill, I’m sure there’s millions and a few working this blog, who’d disagree.
damien

Liberal Tormentor said:
Thanks for the laugh Damien! You and Tommy both know that if the president had an R behind his name, you’d be applauding Moore. Don’t bother denying it. The second best part of UBL’s demise is watching you libs twist yourselves into pretzels defending things you abhore. I’ll bet the sales of pepto have gone through the roof!

I will bother denying it LT, because I hate Moore and his desceptive methods. I hated him when Bush was president and I hate him now. Then again, your general hypothesis probably doesn’t apply to me because I’m NOT a liberal. I’m a proud independent who has voted Conservative and Liberal in the past, depending on the candidate and their policies. I guess because you disagree with me you just naturally assumed that makes me a liberal. Thanks for proving my point for me.

And Gordon, you keep doing what you do.
cjd ohio 1

damien said:
It’s called thinking for yourself. Liberals tend to be better at it that conservatives (or at least the conservatives who post here), despite the conservative claim that they’re fighting for individual rights. If a liberal says something stupid, other liberals are able to call them up on it without feeling they’re betraying their side. Guys like you, however, have to double down and defend them relentlessly whenever Hannity displays obvious hypocrisies or Beck mocks people weaker than himself. Unlike you, liberals just don’t need other people to do their thinking for them.

yes, it appears that way with tommy here
Tommy Christopher

Magister said:
As for this idea that only those born in the city are “real” New Yorkers and everyone else is spending goodwill, I’m sure there’s millions and a few working this blog, who’d disagree.

I said nothing like that.
Tommy Christopher

Magister said:
your feelings are no more or less valid than anyone else’s. They are your own.

I claim no superior validity, and for the record, I had no “buzz” to “harsh,” but as I said up above, not gonna judge anyone who did.
TucsonTerpFan

Great Moore hires ex-Seals to provide his security. Just think of it, a seal protects a beached whale
http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

Tommy Christopher said:
I said nothing like that.

I can come up with one, possibly two NYC addresses for Moore and he says in the linked post that he was near Ground Zero at the time of the President’s announcement. I’m sure he maintains an address in Michigan, but I doubt he lives there most of the time and because he spends so much time in the city, it’d make economic sense to have bought a place.

And, perhaps he’s stepped-up since then, but Moore probably also had a city-base while doing “TV Nation” and “The Awful Truth”, both of which preceded 9/11.
turk281

Magister said:
I can come up with one, possibly two NYC addresses for Moore and he says in the linked post that he was near Ground Zero at the time of the President’s announcement. I’m sure he maintains an address in Michigan, but I doubt he lives there most of the time and because he spends so much time in the city, it’d make economic sense to have bought a place.

And, perhaps he’s stepped-up since then, but Moore probably also had a city-base while doing “TV Nation” and “The Awful Truth”, both of which preceded 9/11.

Ever consider that Tommy, a self described liberal, was writing a post that basically says that Moore does not speak for all liberals.

It get’s frustrating when someone you side with politically basically reinforces every crappy stereotype that the other side throws at you. I know, because it happens to me.

When I hear Chris Matthews suggest that every looney thing ever uttered by someone who calls themselves libertarian or conservative is embraced by my side, i get pissed. Well, Moore seems to embrace some of the nuttier elements of the left…

Why bother defending Moore? Tommy voiced his opposition to something being said by someone who is often embraced by a large segment of the left.

Besides, we’re talking about Michael Moore, one of the loudest and most hypocritical voices around:

Moore goes out of his way to avoid unions on his films
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/mar/7/michael-moore-hypocritical-union-buster/

and a corporate subsidy taker of 1 million dollars
http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/12562
John Michael

greg454 said:
Hey Navy Seals, would you really work for Michael Moore? Come on, that man hates America!

What?!? Are you trying to say Navy Seals shouldn’t work for Mike because of your opinion of Moore? Why should they care what your opinion is? In your opinion Moore hates the US, but the fact is that he really loves America, but not the foreign policy over the last 60+ years, and if you would educate yourself on how many times The US has funded terrorism overseas and supported the worst dictators in the world, then maybe you’d agree with some of what Moore says, but you’d rather stay ignorant while blindly chanting, “USA! USA! USA!” Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, Greggers.
turk281

John Michael said:
What?!? Are you trying to say Navy Seals shouldn’t work for Mike because of your opinion of Moore? Why should they care what your opinion is? In your opinion Moore hates the US, but the fact is that he really loves America, but not the foreign policy over the last 60+ years, and if you would educate yourself on how many times The US has funded terrorism overseas and supported the worst dictators in the world, then maybe you’d agree with some of what Moore says, but you’d rather stay ignorant while blindly chanting, “USA! USA! USA!” Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, Greggers.

I agree with you on one thing. I can GUARANTEE Michael Moore loves America. What’s not to love?

He’s become a multi millionaire through capitalism, while bashing capitalism. And he gets to rail against corporate interest, while being financed by one of the largest corporations in America!

Moore can say whatever he likes and I’m happy for him. Because in America we have freedoms, not the least of which is the freedom to be a hypocrite.
Barack Must Go

damien said:
It’s called thinking for yourself. Liberals tend to be better at it that conservatives (or at least the conservatives who post here), despite the conservative claim that they’re fighting for individual rights. If a liberal says something stupid, other liberals are able to call them up on it without feeling they’re betraying their side. Guys like you, however, have to double down and defend them relentlessly whenever Hannity displays obvious hypocrisies or Beck mocks people weaker than himself.

Unlike you, liberals just don’t need other people to do their thinking for them.

You’re the unlucky one sucker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yepsv842U&feature=related
http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

@turk281: I’m sure Tommy felt genuinely celebratory upon hearing of bin Laden’s death and Moore really wishes we had lived up to his ideals.

I personally lean to the Moore side because I’ve assumed bin Laden had been dead for years, but I recognize that even if one could be sited, a trial would carry a lot of risk.
turk281

Magister said:
His lament, ironically, was that bin Laden hadn’t been captured so that he could receive that most American expression of justice, a fair trial. It’s ironic because, in the same breath, he denied that SEAL team the presumption of innocence that’s at the heart of our justice system, accusing them of performing “an execution.”

I understand both points, I obviously differ from your view. But that’s cool and fine. But here’s where Tommy nails it:

“His lament, ironically, was that bin Laden hadn’t been captured so that he could receive that most American expression of justice, a fair trial. It’s ironic because, in the same breath, he denied that SEAL team the presumption of innocence that’s at the heart of our justice system, accusing them of performing “an execution.”

Liberals often get branded many times over as a “blame America first” crowd. This can clearly be taken by many as Moore questioning the actions of the US before assuming the worst of a monster like bin Laden.

There’s a lot of things left and right can argue over but the death of bin Laden, why bother? We’re all glad he’s dead.
djalkj

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http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

turk281 said:
There’s a lot of things left and right can argue over but the death of bin Laden, why bother? We’re all glad he’s dead.

Exactly. Moore can wish for V-J Day, Tommy can pop champagne and the fellow Colbert sampled from Geraldo was able to blow off a little steam during finals.
Lolwut

I don’t think people cheering in the streets was all that necessary. If you noticed, 90% of them were of the age that when 9-11 happened they were probably 11 years old or less. With that said, I do believe that bin laden deserved to NOT have a US trial because I for one don’t want my taxes going to even 1 slice of bread to feed him in our justice system while he waits for the inevitable death sentence he’s sure to have gotten. With all the talk of our gov. spending money, that would surely hit home even if you wanted to argue with me.
Color Me Badd

I read the first three paragraphs because I didn’t want to wretch. Why don’t you shut the F up Tommy, you and all of the WH shills may not want people questioning why they decided to kill OBL without asking him questions and dumping him in the ocean, but I do and so do a lot of people. I know I cant use the F word on Mediaite because that is only reserved for the writers and editors of this pathetic TMZ blog, but if i could I would say F you and your entire team on Mediaite. Why aren’t you people publishing useful shit like Francis’ story about Obama boinking some campaign worker. Seriously you people are high school newspaper writers who somehow got to the big leagues. You are the reason our media is a complete joke and the indy media is eating your lunch. F Mediate in the A.
goldmind

turk281 said:
I agree with you on one thing. I can GUARANTEE Michael Moore loves America. What’s not to love? He’s become a multi millionaire through capitalism, while bashing capitalism. And he gets to rail against corporate interest, while being financed by one of the largest corporations in America! Moore can say whatever he likes and I’m happy for him. Because in America we have freedoms, not the least of which is the freedom to be a hypocrite.

Sweet…subtle and everlasting, Hypocisy! I pledge alligiance to hypocricy, because it’s what the United States of America, would have me do. Hey Danny, you should know that. Didn’t you take the Hypocritic Oath? Loosen up on some of the most beautiful words in our language. F%$# those Fa*&^% A%$ Mother*&^%$#@ing sponsors! When my Momma sh&% me out, the first thing my father said: that is one ugly Fu&^%$# child!
Without these words, we loose our color. We become dull and vague reminders, of just how phony we can be.
I know Danny, with you legal expertise and command over the larger hypocritical factions, you can make it happen. I love all you guys and gals…NOT! When I leave these halls of social degenerates, I watch porn and maturbate with a hand that rejects my advances,
goldmind

Think of the headlines, had Pee Wee Herman, taken out Binny.
Cecelia

Well, it’s good of you to tolerate for one more minute, Moore’s brazen thoughts and conjectures about the UBL take-out, until he finally “shuts the f…. up”…., Tommy.

However, are you that by using the word “execute”, Moore isn’t making a bigoted allusion to racial stereotypes and urban crime?

Are you sure you’re not letting the ole rabble-rouser off the hook much…much…much…. too easily here?
Tommy Christopher

Color Me Badd said:
I read the first three paragraphs because I didn’t want to wretch. Why don’t you shut the F up Tommy, you and all of the WH shills may not want people questioning why they decided to kill OBL without asking him questions and dumping him in the ocean, but I do and so do a lot of people

The problem I have with Moore is not in the questioning, but with the not questioning. He didn’t “ask” if bin Laden had been executed, he “declared” that he had.

But my larger objection, which ought to be apparent, is with his presumption to judge those celebrating at Ground Zero.

If you disagree on either of THOSE points, we can talk, but you’re getting het up over something I never said.
Cecelia

Tommy Christopher said:
But my larger objection, which ought to be apparent, is with his presumption to judge those celebrating at Ground Zero.

Well, it may silly leftist panty-wetting for Moore to disapprove of people who were celebrating a national victory– the killing of UBL in a military operation…. but it is certainly NOT presumptuous of him.

Moore has consistently voiced a distaste for that sort of triumphalism.
Tommy Christopher

dontcopyandpaste said:
My name is Aaron and I’d like to clue you in on what is really going on in the world. Back in 2006 I began looking for ways to make money online

Aaron, that’s a whole lot of barely-on-topic. Please provide a link and an introduction, instead.
Tommy Christopher

Magister said:
I’m sure Tommy felt genuinely celebratory upon hearing of bin Laden’s death

What makes you sure of that? That’s definitely not how I would describe it. That’s not the point. Neither is whether Moore ever maintains a New York address. My reasons for being angry with Moore aren’t that tough to divine.
goldmind

dontcopyandpaste said:
My name is Aaron and I’d like to clue you in on what is really going on in the world. Back in 2006 I began looking for ways to make money online. After acquiring some general knowledge of affiliate marketing I produced my own e-book and sold it at Clickbank. My marketing method was unique in that I mocked a number of scam artists I believed were individuals pitching get rich quick schemes online. Over time I picked up on a number of patterns.

Aaron, what happened to the rest of your post? I read, go to comment and 90% of it has vanished? TC…deserves more then a Barley analogy. Give up some credibility.
http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

@goldmind: I didn’t see Aaron’s entire comment in this thread, but it looks like Tommy used his moderating privileges. Of course, if you need a reminder of his evolving treatise about how Stedman looks like Eric Holder and Sarah Palin was manufactured, and if you’re not scared of the torture he’s had to endure, Aaron’s been kind enough to spam most every other bin Laden post (and probably a few others) for at least a week.
Cecelia

Tommy Christopher said:
My reasons for being angry with Moore aren’t that tough to divine.

They certainly are not. You’re pissed that Moore said UBL was “executed”. To bolster that this was somehow unfair of Moore, you’ve inexplicably categorized as walk-backs. rational statements from Moore saying that he believes this though he doesn’t know the entire story, or how it felt to be in that compound at night.

Again, based upon your willowing-wand abilities for divining racism and racist motivations in political adversaries based the ephemera of “dogwhistles”, it’s there’s any presumptuousness or unfairness here it’s from YOU.
tatboy

Color Me Badd said:
I read the first three paragraphs because I didn’t want to wretch. Why don’t you shut the F up Tommy, you and all of the WH shills may not want people questioning why they decided to kill OBL without asking him questions and dumping him in the ocean, but I do and so do a lot of people. I know I cant use the F word on Mediaite because that is only reserved for the writers and editors of this pathetic TMZ blog, but if i could I would say F you and your entire team on Mediaite. Why aren’t you people publishing useful shit like Francis’ story about Obama boinking some campaign worker. Seriously you people are high school newspaper writers who somehow got to the big leagues. You are the reason our media is a complete joke and the indy media is eating your lunch. F Mediate in the A.

If you feel this way, why are you here? You are a moron.
tatboy

Nice piece Tommy.
http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

Tommy Christopher said:
What makes you sure of that? That’s definitely not how I would describe it. That’s not the point. Neither is whether Moore ever maintains a New York address. My reasons for being angry with Moore aren’t that tough to divine.

Okay, maybe I’m just missing it and without getting too far over into Dr. Phil’s territory, but my interpretation of the portion of this post which calls out Moore for questioning the celebratory reaction and the part of a prior, where you say it’s sad kids too young to remember a pre-9/11 world are feeling remorse over their initial reaction indicated to me that you may have had a similar response, which you feel was justified and don’t like having questioned.

If it’s not to protect your own personal reaction, then why (at least) two posts arguing the legitimacy of the celebratory response over any of the others?

As for my comments in regards to Moore maintaining a New York address, your “Michigan native” and “uses the goodwill he thinks he has banked”, plus the bits (projections?) about those who “choked on the smoke” and “who still have to look at that hole in the sky” seems to imply that you don’t consider Moore a New Yorker and thus, he’s less entitled to his opinion.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Dronetek-Bulk-Vanderhuge/100000918732763 Dronetek

You lefties used to love Moore when he was a weapon against Bush, but now you throw him under the bus because he’s going after your guy. Remember, he was a guest of honor at the 2004 Democrat convention.
Tommy Christopher

Cecelia said:
They certainly are not. You’re pissed that Moore said UBL was “executed”. To bolster that this was somehow unfair of Moore, you’ve inexplicably categorized as walk-backs. rational statements from Moore saying that he believes this though he doesn’t know the entire story, or how it felt to be in that compound at night.

Except Moore didn’t say “I *believe* he was executed,” or “it *may turn out that* he was executed.” Moore said “He was executed.” That’s an objectively unfair thing to say. The fact that he now makes the statement with a walked-back level of certainty, without apologizing for, or acknowledging, his prior overreaches is just cowardly.
Rusty Shackelford

Did Moore say all these things between bites of an In and Out cheese burger?
Tommy Christopher

Magister said:
If it’s not to protect your own personal reaction, then why (at least) two posts arguing the legitimacy of the celebratory response over any of the others?

As for my comments in regards to Moore maintaining a New York address, your “Michigan native” and “uses the goodwill he thinks he has banked”, plus the bits (projections?) about those who “choked on the smoke” and “who still have to look at that hole in the sky” seems to imply that you don’t consider Moore a New Yorker and thus, he’s less entitled to his opinio

1. Because I have a strong belief that people are entitled to the benefit of the doubt when handling tragedy, within certain limits, limits which were nowhere near exceeded in these cases.

2. The “goodwill” reference was about the praise he lavished on the SEALs elsewhere in his commentary, not to New Yorkers.

My reference to Moore as an outsider in this case has nothing to do with what constitutes a real New Yorker. There are many people who experienced that day in that way who were not New Yorkers. And I’m not attacking his entitlement to his opinion, but rather, his standing to judge the actions of those celebrants. You can have an opinion, without passing judgment.

For example, I wouldn’t have chosen to chant “USA! USA!”, but I won’t condemn those who did. Had I been in front of the White House when that crowd began to sing “The Star Spangled Banner,” I would have joined in with gusto, but I wouldn’t look askance at those who did not.
Cecelia

Tommy Christopher said:
Except Moore didn’t say “I *believe* he was executed,” or “it *may turn out that* he was executed.” Moore said “He was executed.” That’s an objectively unfair thing to say. The fact that he now makes the statement with a walked-back level of certainty, without apologizing for, or acknowledging, his prior overreaches is just cowardly.

If I say, “OJ was guilty of killing Nicole Simpson”, implied in that statement is that though I wasn’t a witness at the scene, everything I’ve analyzed about the case leads me to believe the man guilty.

Moore’s walkbacks are statements of the obvious. He wasn’t there…. He doesn’t know how it feels to be in that situation…. but he based upon what he does know— etc.

You’ve made a specious case here about some sort of unfairness from Moore, for something that is done by pundits everyday.

That is particularly galling considering your own way of analyzing the evidence….and coming to the conclusion that Donald Trump longs for the romantic days of slaves fanning their masters on the veranda…

You are the LAST person on earth to criticize Moore here.
Cancon2

Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad. Moore Explodes! I so do wish Life would immitate art in HIS case.
Color Me Badd

tatboy said:
If you feel this way, why are you here? You are a moron.

Because I think Mediaite is hilarious! Seriously look the writers are so full of themselves they actually feel the need to defend their work to us, the peons. That is hilarious to me, Tommy and others have been in defense mode for months because of crazy people like Francis Martel writing things like Obama is having an affair, and she knows it cause she read it in the Weekly World News. I think you people take this blog a lot more seriously than the writers of this blog do. Colby, Tommy, Francis and Dan Abrams know this is the TMZ of politics and are probably laughing at all of us.
Color Me Badd

Color Me Badd said:
Because I think Mediaite is hilarious! Seriously look the writers are so full of themselves they actually feel the need to defend their work to us, the peons. That is hilarious to me, Tommy and others have been in defense mode for months because of crazy people like Francis Martel writing things like Obama is having an affair, and she knows it cause she read it in the Weekly World News. I think you people take this blog a lot more seriously than the writers of this blog do. Colby, Tommy, Francis and Dan Abrams know this is the TMZ of politics and are probably laughing at all of us.

But I love this site with all my heart.
tatboy

Color Me Badd said:
Because I think Mediaite is hilarious! Seriously look the writers are so full of themselves they actually feel the need to defend their work to us, the peons. That is hilarious to me, Tommy and others have been in defense mode for months because of crazy people like Francis Martel writing things like Obama is having an affair, and she knows it cause she read it in the Weekly World News. I think you people take this blog a lot more seriously than the writers of this blog do. Colby, Tommy, Francis and Dan Abrams know this is the TMZ of politics and are probably laughing at all of us.

You seem to take this seriously yourself. Me… I’m having fun just like I do on my wood working blog. It’s a hobby.
Tommy Christopher

michaelfleszar said:
THEN WHY HAS THIS BEEN DELETED REPEATEDLY FROM MAJOR NEWS SITES?

Because it’s 16 paragraphs of off-topic thread jacking. Post a link, instead.
http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

Color Me Badd said:
Seriously look the writers are so full of themselves they actually feel the need to defend their work to us, the peons. That is hilarious to me,

Speaking for myself, I’m glad that Tommy and some of the other writers are willing to engage their readers in conversation. Otherwise what’s the point of commenting and why should the site offer the opportunity, if it isn’t to facilitate the sharing of ideas?

michaelfleszar said:
NOT CONVINCED THAT THE DEATH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN IS A CONSPIRACY? THEN WHY HAS THIS BEEN DELETED REPEATEDLY FROM MAJOR NEWS SITES?

Because it’s a bunch of off-topic, nutcase stuff that I kind of wish the proprietors of this site would also remove. Though, the first several times and at points during its evolution, it did make for an amusing and confusing read.

Tommy Christopher said:
For example, I wouldn’t have chosen to chant “USA! USA!”, but I won’t condemn those who did. Had I been in front of the White House when that crowd began to sing “The Star Spangled Banner,” I would have joined in with gusto, but I wouldn’t look askance at those who did not.

Thanks for the clarifications.

I now know (via the conversation) that you’ve come to the defense of the celebrants a couple of times because you felt they may have been slighted, not that you’re planning to throw a “kegger” and your dismissal of Moore’s opinion of the reaction — which is also a reaction to the event — with terms like “Michigan native”, “tone-deaf” and “emo swagger” was because you were angry that he had passed judgment on others, while trying to communicate his own ideas.

Of course, I don’t see how one can express an opinion about any type of response to any event without actually defining the response and passing something akin to judgement, much as you’ve done in the post, but you obviously feel that Moore should’ve kept his mouth shut and the kid in the Colbert clip should be proud of his performance because it reflected his emotions at the time.
http://twitter.com/SailRabbits Magister

PS) For the record and as I alluded to earlier, I thought bin Laden had been long dead, so I didn’t feel any emotion on the night of the announcement, other than a slight sense of relief as I conveyed the news to my wife and the thrill of having an exciting new news story originating from an irregular source.

I watched the Ground Zero and White House Gate stuff come together on Twitter and via CNN.com’s live feeds. To be honest and it’s obviously influenced by those I follow and whom I list, but the whole thing reminded me of the way we used to head-off to the appropriate college campus during Final Four. None of us in high school had any real connection to the campuses, but we knew there’d be a party, when we arrived.

This isn’t meant to dismiss those who headed down. I’m sure some felt real emotion like those whose team was in the finals, but I don’t know that it also extends to those in the Colbert clip, or those whom Rachel found flashing their breasts or climbing out toward a stoplight.

But, it was their reaction and with it, they’ll have to live. The same for Moore.
brownsound

Tommy Christopher said:
I claim no superior validity, and for the record, I had no “buzz” to “harsh,” but as I said up above, not gonna judge anyone who did.

Tommy gets upset and has to respond when someone projects something on him, like “buzz” and “harsh”. Yet Tommy has no problem with projecting on just about every individual he “writes” about. Tommy, you are a professional hypocrite.
Mustang

Cecelia said:
If I say, “OJ was guilty of killing Nicole Simpson”, implied in that statement is that though I wasn’t a witness at the scene, everything I’ve analyzed about the case leads me to believe the man guilty.

Moore’s walkbacks are statements of the obvious. He wasn’t there…. He doesn’t know how it feels to be in that situation…. but he based upon what he does know— etc..

One of the sillier statements made here.

OJ had a …trial… at which …evidence… was presented. If you believe that OJ is guilty, at least it was after you saw and heard the evidence.

Moore pronounced the SEALS guilty based on a trial? No. After presentation of some evidence? No. Moore knows dick about what happened at Abbottabad

That is Tommy’s point.
Cecelia

Mustang said:
One of the sillier statements made here.

OJ had a …trial… at which …evidence… was presented. If you believe that OJ is guilty, at least it was after you saw and heard the evidence.

Moore pronounced the SEALS guilty based on a trial? No. After presentation of some evidence? No. Moore knows dick about what happened at Abbottabad

That is Tommy’s point.

If you can’t pronounce on anything without there being a jury trial, then Tommy is in professional trouble, like no one else…

Actually, Moore stated the reasons he arrived at his conclusion: what he knows about the methods of Navy Seals from those who have been in his employ and what they have said to him, and what he has gleaned from the REAL walkbacks engaged in by the Administration.

You don’t have buy it. I don’t. However, there’s no inherent unfairness in arriving at a conclusion and flatly stating it.

Frankly, considering the conflicted accounts that came out the WH during those last days, it’s more than a little disconcerting that anyone’s reaction would be that they hoped that an observer would “shut the f… up”.

I don’t hold Moore’s opinion. However, I
Cecelia

Mustang said:
Moore pronounced the SEALS guilty based on a trial? No. After presentation of some evidence? No. Moore knows dick about what happened at Abbottabad

That is Tommy’s point.

BTW, with inherently sensitive information of this sort, it may stay the case that we know “dick” about what truly happened that night.

How long must we wait before we can firmly state our conclusions, and will that time frame apply to both sides of the aisle?
Mustang

God forbid that Michael Moore NOT pronounce someone guilty of a heinous act until he has a little evidence to back up what he says. Of course, he has made a fortune making unsupported statements about almost every issue under the sun, so perhaps I wish for too much.

Ponder this…perhaps the world would be a better place if narcissistic ego maniacs like Moore DID keep their unsupported allegations to themselves until at least some of the evidence was in.

As for the conflicting statements coming out of the White House somehow justifying Moore’s unsupported accusations, I have a different take. These conflicting statements demonstrate even more strongly how little we can be certain of about the raid. That Moore would pronounce the SEAL’s guilty of executing OBL based on these conflicting statements is inexplicable.
Mustang

Cecelia said:

How long must we wait before we can firmly state our conclusions, and will that time frame apply to both sides of the aisle?

Don’t you see the irony in Moore’s position?

For Christ’s sake…Moore decries that OBL didn’t get a trial…while he pronounces the SEAL’s guilty…without a trial.

Apparently Moore (and you) have no problem with declaring people guilty without a trial.
Cecelia

Mustang said:
As for the conflicting statements coming out of the White House somehow justifying Moore’s unsupported accusations, I have a different take. These conflicting statements demonstrate even more strongly how little we can be certain of about the raid. That Moore would pronounce the SEAL’s guilty of executing OBL based on these conflicting statements is inexplicable.

Well, it’s “inexplicable” if you ignore the fact that conflicting stories generally give people the impression that there was something to hide. First OLB was armed and there was a firefight….then the Pakis shot that down… then he wasn’t armed… etc… First the wife was killed, then she wasn’t because there wasn’t so much confusion that couldn’t see that she wasn’t armed, and then shoot her in the leg.

Moore sums it up: “These SEALs are trained to follow orders. I don’t know what their orders were that night in Abbottabad, but it certainly looks like a job (and this is backed up in a piece in the Atlantic) where they were told to not bring bin Laden back alive. The SEALs are pros at what they do and they instantly took out every adult male (every potential threat) within a few minutes – but they also took care to not harm a single one of the nine children who were present. Pretty amazing. This wasn’t some Rambo-style operation where they just went in guns blazing, spraying bullets. They acted swiftly and with expert precision. I’m telling you, these guys are so smart and so lethal, they could take you out with a piece of dental floss. (And in fact, one of my ex-SEAL guys showed me how to do that one night. Whoa.)”

In the end, Moore says that though he wishes OBL had been taken alive, because a trial would have been the best endorsement a country can give for civilization (Moore is wrong for many pragmatic reasons), he is still is glad that OBL is out of the picture now.

Tommy’s going to have to try harder to convince me that Michael Moore is unfair or out of line in these remarks.

Frankly, they may be the most reasonable ones the guy has ever made.
Cecelia

Mustang said:
Apparently Moore (and you) have no problem with declaring people guilty without a trial.

Well, I suppose we could start with a senate investigation… say starting in 2012?

Let’s have some closed door hearings. Subpoena some military brass, investigate when the president got wind of the info… what… how it was obtained… match up the Seals behavior with Military Code of Conduct as compared to what orders were issued and whether the president was aware of them,,, etc

We’ll conclude about July 2012.

Then we’ll have some trials. Game?
Mustang

Well, let’s start with this…Moore keeps his ignorant rants about what happened to OBL to himself until such time as at least SOME facts are known.

Failing that, Moore (and you) can acknowledge that while justice for OBL demanded that he be given a trial, the SEALS are entitled to no such consideration.

You apparently are blind to the irony of the situation
Cecelia

Mustang said:
Well, let’s start with this…Moore keeps his ignorant rants about what happened to OBL to himself until such time as at least SOME facts are known.

Failing that, Moore (and you) can acknowledge that while justice for OBL demanded that he be given a trial, the SEALS are entitled to no such consideration.

You apparently are blind to the irony of the situation

No, I acknowledge that justice for OBL was that he be shot dead where he stood.

What I don’t acknowledge is that Michael Moore was out of order for arriving at a logical conclusion and stating it, rather than waiting till 2030.
Mustang

Cecelia said:
Well, I suppose we could start with a senate investigation… say starting in 2012?

Let’s have some closed door hearings. Subpoena some military brass, investigate when the president got wind of the info… what… how it was obtained… match up the Seals behavior with Military Code of Conduct as compared to what orders were issued and whether the president was aware of them,,, etc

We’ll conclude about July 2012.

Then we’ll have some trials. Game?

Do you honestly suggest that we conduct a criminal investigation of the SEAL’s who got bin Ladin? ARe you flipping serious??
Cecelia

Mustang said:
Do you honestly suggest that we conduct a criminal investigation of the SEAL’s who got bin Ladin? ARe you flipping serious??

Goodness, no. I’m just going with your argument that we must not arrive at a conclusion (or more to the point– STATE IT ALOUD) without one.
Mustang

Or perhaps we could acknowledge our ignorance of the facts and withhold judgement, until such time as we have some. I know it is SO much more fun to smear people as “assassins”, as Moore did, than to simply acknowledge that the facts aren’t in. That, however, that has never been Moore’s way.

And, of course, Moore IS an expert on these types of operations..he claims to actually employee a few SEAL’s. So who is Tommy or anyone else to question Moore’s tarring of people whom he does not know, about a matter that he has no knowledge of, as “assassins”. I mean, as you have attested..it is the only logical conclusion.
Cecelia

Mustang said:
And, of course, Moore IS an expert on these types of operations..he claims to actually employee a few SEAL’s. So who is Tommy or anyone else to question Moore’s tarring of people whom he does not know, about a matter that he has no knowledge of, as “assassins”. I mean, as you have attested..it is the only logical conclusion.

So default mode for waiting to pronounce on what went down, is to accept the WH version?

You’ve already said that you don’t want an investigation. In lieu of that, what would constitute evidence for Michael Moore’s opinon? Robert Gates breaking down and confessing all during Mass?

Poor Michael Moore. The Inconvenient Leftist.

He is now the Inconvenient Leftist…
Mustang

The facts will eventually out. Rather than adopt your default mode, which is to declare that the SEALs assassinated OBL..a dispicable charge, IMO, I’m content to wait until that time.

You know, Cecelia, it is possible for one to reserve judgement until at least SOME facts are known. Moore apparently couldn’t contain himself..within a few days of the operation, based on the same second-hand knowledge that we were all privy to, he was already declaring the SEALs assassins.
Cecelia

Mustang said:
The facts will eventually out. Rather than adopt your default mode, which is to declare that the SEALs assassinated OBL..a dispicable charge, IMO, I’m content to wait until that time.

You know, Cecelia, it is possible for one to reserve judgement until at least SOME facts are known. Moore apparently couldn’t contain himself..within a few days of the operation, based on the same second-hand knowledge that we were all privy to, he was already declaring the SEALs assassins.

I guess neither one of us was willing to wait until you or Tommy said when.

Oh, well.
Mustang

Yes, “oh well”.

Smear the guys who got OBL by accusing them, in the absence of any facts, as murderers. “Oh well”

What despicable pieces of trash you and Moore both are.

Don’t like my characterization of you?

“Oh well.”
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Cecelia

Mustang said:
Don’t like my characterization of you?

On the contrary, “oh well”, will more than suffice.
Mustang

I’m sure that I’m not the first to have made that observation
Cecelia

Mustang said:
I’m sure that I’m not the first to have made that observation

Well, it is a blogboard…
Cecelia

BTW– A week later… contrast the scene as reported by the CIA DIRECTOR here…

“But bin Laden didn’t appear to have been given a chance to surrender himself to the SEALs.

“To be frank, I don’t think he had a lot of time to say anything,” CIA Director Leon Panetta said in an interview airing on PBS NewsHour.

U.S. officials have described a chaotic scene inside the sprawling compound as the SEALs fought running gun battles with militants. When commandos reached the room were bin Laden had been sleeping, they made a quick decision to kill him.

“It was a firefight going up that compound. By the time they got to the third floor and found bin Laden, I think this was all split-second action on the part of the SEALs,” Panetta said in the PBS interview.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/goal-was-never-to-capture-bin-laden/238330/

To the scene as described here via the Seal camera:

“Officials reviewing those videos are still reconstructing a more accurate version of what happened. We now know that the only firefight took place in the guest house, where one of bin Laden’s couriers opened fire and was quickly gunned down. No one in the main building got off a shot or was even armed, although there were weapons nearby.

The SEALs first saw bin Laden when he came out on the third floor landing. They fired, but missed. He retreated to his bedroom, and the first SEAL through the door grabbed bin Laden’s daughters and pulled them aside.

When the second SEAL entered, bin Laden’s wife rushed forward at him — or perhaps was pushed by bin Laden. The SEAL shoved her aside and shot bin Laden in the chest. A third seal shot him in the head.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/12/eveningnews/main20062410.shtml#ixzz1MIZf6SSV”

To Tommy’s remarks here:

“The Obama administration’s decision not to release photos of bin Laden’s corpse, along with other security concerns, means that it is very unlikely that these [Seal] tapes will ever see the light of day, but the information on them is already helping to form a clearer picture of what happened during the raid. From CBS News:”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cbs-news-reports-that-25-helmet-cams-filmed-entire-osama-bin-laden-raid-video/

Is it “when”, Tommy and Mustang? Is it “when”?…
X-3

Another comment obliterated…
Joe Astroturf

Michael Moore is mad at the world . When he looks in the mirror and at his disgusting looking wife that was thrown out by a donkey in Mexico because the donkey had more class than that he gets depressed. If your on an empty stomach heres a picture of these 2 disgusting pieces of flesh. I hate ObamaTakeAwayAvastinCare but if it prevents these 2 from procreating than it migh not be that bad.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=michael+moore+wife+picture&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=sBaOTfSzIMaBtgfDk4GmDQ&ved=0CCcQsAQ
Please Check out song called teapartiers I can’t hear you at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJfboOindCo

Here’s a verse

Doctors are retiring earlier but we’re getting 17000 new IRS
This is how Obama creates health care jobs I guess
For 234 years this country’s been God’s blessing.
Now he’s following Cloward and Piven’s to bankrupt the country I’m guessing
If Obamacare gives Grandma and Grandpa a scare
Think how when their rationed and die earlier we’ll save on healthcare
Mustang

Cecelia said:
..He retreated to his bedroom, and the first SEAL through the door grabbed bin Laden’s daughters and pulled them aside….

Is it “when”, Tommy and Mustang? Is it “when”?…

No, Cecelia, I don’t believe it is.
marine777

Don,t know WHO the IDIOT is writing these Articals, if you can call it WRITING! Big deal, so he knows some Seals..sorry bout that but THESE BOY SCOUTS BLOTCHED the OPERATION UP..ask ANY Military Man..YOu DON,T LEAVE Weapons or AIRCRAFT parts behind…CARDNAL SIN..you BLOW THEM UP..they had time and EXPLOSIVES also..just STUPIDITY! These are NOT HEROS…but MURDERERS! I saw action in Nam, I am highly Decorated and I say, as MANY Military Men do, the PROCEDURE was TOTALLY wrong and it had TO MANY HOLES..and, Dick, or whatever your name is writing this story, just because you KNOW Seals dose,nt mean you know the UCMJ or ANYTHING else pretaining to JUSTICE..it was most likely the IDIOT in the White House who said..AFTER they discovered they were at the WRONG HOUSE…”QUICK, kill that guy, get the body out and bury it at Sea so NO ONE will EVER know”..the FBI …alot of times BREAK IN THE WRONG HOUSE (just this month) before they realize it..arent they PROFESSIONALS..? FACT, I KNOW..”You CAN<T KILL ANY UNARMED MAN..NO matter who he is"..in that case, if a Cop finds a Child Molester say, who just killed 5 boys..can he KILL HIM if he finds hin sitting at home …HELL NO..thats the LAW and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT…get another job!