This lone psychopath is obviously the fault of the teaparty. Since its inception the MSM has done everything to slur them and accuse them violence. This is not new, the establishment is in fear, they’re about to be made politically-extinct. Just like the MSM.

“Although when pressed by Crowley, Durbin did not want to suggest there was a direct connection between the rhetoric and yesterday’s shooting of Congresswoman Giffords, nor whether there was similarly unacceptable rhetoric amongst Democrats.”

Shocking… when asked to put up or shut up, she shuts up. So if I am to take everything a politician says literally Dick really DOES think US military persons are equal to Pol Pot and Nazi’s??? Really Dick??? Do we now have to go back to find every offensive/violent thing said by a Dem to get them to stop with this political opportunism?

You people can be as angery as you want Sarah Palin said and did things to get this kind of attention.That being said What a Sad day for Americans .Thoughts and prayers to all involved.

tatboy said:
Dick really DOES think US military persons are equal to Pol Pot and Nazi’s??? Really Dick??? Do we now have to go back to find every offensive/violent thing said by a Dem to get them to stop with this political opportunism?

This is the same Durbin who wants the fairness doctrine back.

Sarah Palin is the spiritual leader for an awful group of people.

ROCKSTEADY said:
You people can be as angery as you want Sarah Palin said and did things to get this kind of attention.That being said What a Sad day for Americans .Thoughts and prayers to all involved.

So did Olbermann and many others. Score your political points some other time. You and Olbermann have plenty of time to try and maximize political spin for your sides gain. Give it a couple days.

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
Sarah Palin is the spiritual leader for an awful group of people.

Are you saying the shooter was a follower of Palin?

Here we go,the vultures are already circling looking to claim their piece of the prize and use an incident like this to promote themselves and whatever agenda they ascribe to.

I urge everyone to watch and learn as the days go forward.You will see how opportunistic our elected representatives are as well as some media figures can be.

It is shameful on a level that should have us all thinking about who we vote for.and why and why we should trust them to be looking out for us instead of themselves.

dhg said:
Here we go,the vultures are already circling looking to claim their piece of the prize and use an incident like this to promote themselves and whatever agenda they ascribe to.

I urge everyone to watch and learn as the days go forward.You will see how opportunistic our elected representatives are as well as some media figures can be.

It is shameful on a level that should have us all thinking about who we vote for.and why and why we should trust them to be looking out for us instead of themselves.

Already happening…

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294.html

Note at the end of the article I linked how Clinton maximized political benefit of the OK City bombing.

tatboy said:
Are you saying the shooter was a follower of Palin?

No, I had a type of an epiphany that made me think that Sarah is not just a political leader to teabaggers, but sort of a spiritual leader–cultist in nature.

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
Sarah Palin is the spiritual leader for an awful group of people.

William Ayers, then, must be the “good guy” leader by default…………….using YOUR “logic.”

Palin never advocated violence. Advocates for violence have always come from the LEFT……………….Ayers, Piven, Van Jones, the New Black Panthers, and many other associates of the Hussein Obama administration. Durbin is just the latest liar dispatched by the Democrat Party spin-doctors to deflect attention away from the truth and politicize the actions of a madman.

Davo said:
William Ayers, then, must be the “good guy” leader by

No he was a college professor, who served on a board for an organization that has a website that includes a plethora of educational videos that teabaggers find elitist.

http://www.learner.org/

1 in 5 relationships start online…ready for a romantic filled 2011!
Someone recommended me a nice community~ Bl ackwhiteC upid / Co m ~where b lack & w hite sin gles are looking for lovers to share interracial lifestyle with…you may check it out or tell your friends.we vote for.and why and why we should trust them to be looking out for us instead of themselves.

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
No he was a college professor, who served on a board for an organization that has a website that includes a plethora of educational videos that teabaggers find elitist. http://www.learner.org/

And was a terrorist in his younger days, who made no apologies about blowing things up.

You left that part out.

And of course, Candy didn’t bother to bring up the vitriol of theleft now did she? of course not.

That is why CNN is such a bad news organization – they blame everyone else, but never bother to tell the truth themselves.

Howie has on Joe Klein who is demeaning FNC, ofcourse, which is what CNN does on a regular basis.

Candy goes down many many notches on any credibility scale, and Durbin, who equates our troops to Nazi’s, should not be allowed to comment on any one’s rhetoric, and shame on Candy for letting Durbin off the hook for his own trash talk.

This story just further demonstrates the lack, of the seriousness of today’s media – they are political arm of the DNC, which is being made more and more clear today.

Candy ignored all the targeting by the DNC and tried to blame Palin, Howie did the same thing on his unreliable sources.

CNN is crap, although Joe Klein just called FNC crap. But it’s CNN that is CRAP CRAP AND MORE CRAP.

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
Sarah Palin is the spiritual leader for an awful group of people.

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
No, I had a type of an epiphany that made me think that Sarah is not just a political leader to teabaggers, but sort of a spiritual leader–cultist in nature.

As “challenged” as you are , you are remarkably high functioning .

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
No he was a college professor, who served on a board for an organization that has a website that includes a plethora of educational videos that teabaggers find elitist.

http://www.learner.org/

And he blows things up… looks good on ya to like him so much though.

So it is OK for Obama to say we will “bring a gun to the debate”
Idiots the term “targeting your opponents” has been used in “Political Debate”
since George Washington.
PDS is a mind crippling affliction, obviously!
As serious as GBR obsession with Genn Beck??
Yep!

When you are a Democratic Senator, you tend to forget your own quotes.

You guys never give up.

tatboy said:
Score your political points some other time

Has nothing to do with politics.I’ve read all the threads here.Its just a fact deal with it. Again all thoughts and prayers go out to all involved including Palin.

ROCKSTEADY said:
Has nothing to do with politics.I’ve read all the threads here.Its just a fact deal with it. Again all thoughts and prayers go out to all involved including Palin.

What exactly is a “fact” here? That Palin had up the same map as the KOS? The fact that there’s “violent rhetoric” on both sides? The fact that there is no evidence pulling this guy to one side or another, and probably won’t be… he’s just a loon?

What “fact” are you speaking of?

Posted without comment. Link found on another site:

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/01/09/dhs-memo-suggests-shooter-may-be-linked-racist-organization#ixzz1AYSpwPND

Call_Me_Ishmael said:
Posted without comment. Link found on another site:

It is helpful to provide a brief excerpt to any linked article:

According to a memo obtained by Fox News with information compiled by the Department of Homeland Security and released to state law enforcement officials, Jared Loughner, the alleged shooter of Congressman Gabrielle Giffords, may have been influenced by a pro-white racist organization that publishes an anti-immigration newsletter.

ImJustThatDamnGood said:
You guys never give up.

Neither do you and your guys… it goes 2 ways on this. He might have had a political agenda but that point has become moot as both sides are trying to score max political points. There is some evidence he leaned left, but all the evidence is that he was bat-shit crazy. So I would never hold the entire “left” to bare for this one nutjob. Unlike Olbermann.

ROCKSTEADY said:
Its just a fact deal with it

Its a fact her name will be brought up is all, get over it.Its all very Sad.

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
It is helpful to provide a brief excerpt to any linked article: According to a memo obtained by Fox News with information compiled by the Department of Homeland Security and released to state law enforcement officials, Jared Loughner, the alleged shooter of Congressman Gabrielle Giffords, may have been influenced by a pro-white racist organization that publishes an anti-immigration newsletter.

You left out this part:

The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic,” according to the memo which goes on to point out that Congressman Giffords is the first Jewish female elected to high office in Arizona.

Now correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the majority of Tea Party folks support Israel and are (for the most part) Zionists? I do remember some folks being outspokenly anti-Zionist… but they weren’t Tea Party folks. No… they were a different group………………….

What this leads us to believe is (yet again), the guy wasn’t really part of the black and white, “Republicans or Democrat” groups we want to put him into. He was a lunatic, in some fringe group outside mainstream politics. Stop trying to make it left or right… it’s neither.

tatboy said:
Neither do you and your guys… it goes 2 ways on this. He might have had a political agenda but that point has become moot as both sides are trying to score max political points. There is some evidence he leaned left, but all the evidence is that he was bat-shit crazy. So I would never hold the entire “left” to bare for this one nutjob. Unlike Olbermann.

Be a big enough man and admit the conservative base is violent. Fox News and conservative talk radio has blood on their hands.

ImJustThatDamnGood said:
Be a big enough man and admit the conservative base is violent. Fox News and conservative talk radio has blood on their hands.

How about this… we’ll start with you explaining all the thinks this shooter had to the right-wing, and FOX News.

Tell us how you’ve decided that that’s how this guy was influence. What do you know… that apparently THE REST OF THE WORLD DOESN’T?!

ImJustThatDamnGood said:
Be a big enough man and admit the conservative base is violent. Fox News and conservative talk radio has blood on their hands.

WOW shitbag… do I have to bring up all the violence of the left. You only focus on the right so it is all you see. It’s on both sides. Your bias prevents you from seeing that.

TfT said:
CNN is crap, although Joe Klein just called FNC crap. But it’s CNN that is CRAP CRAP AND MORE CRAP.

Could it be that is why their ratings are in the crapper?

Bullshit, you right wing shills! This is YOUR fault. This is what YOU wanted all along. The only reason you’re not celebrating like a bunch of Taliban on crack is because she’s not dead yet! Who the HELL do you think you’re kidding, you self-important scum!? YOU are the trigger people. YOU! Specifically YOU! Exactly YOU!

And Obama’s was quoting a freaking movie that everyone knows about, but perhaps you’re all too young to remember “The Untouchables.” Typical false equivalency from the criminal mind. YOU are the people who create the conditions for this. You can shout at me now for the rest of the afternoon. You can call me every name in the book. I will NEVER forget the things the right wing has done to America over the past three decades and this is just the beginning of the next phase from these scum-sucking neanderthals. You CELEBRATE the confederate flag and DEFEND slavery as a states rights issue and then have the temerity to complain that you’re misunderstood and that people who take politics seriously are the ones with screws loose? YOU have NO IDEA what you’re ushering into this nation. And by the time you do, it will be too late for you or any of us. This is what YOU have been trying to create all along and if you can’t see how YOU have been part of this problem, then YOU will be among the first to fall when the REAL shooting begins!

I’ve been warning about this for months, always with the typical right-wing shillery attacking me and defending the indefensible… always! This was not only predictable, it was PREDICTED!! Just like all the other MAJOR MISTAKES and OBVIOUS OUTCOMES of self-serving conservative policy all along, from economy crippling tax cuts to unnecessary wars in the middle east to the NON-STOP violent and dehumanizing rhetoric. YOU have been SO DESPERATE to defend the indefensible that your rhetoric MUST escalate to match the intensity of the failures. And this is just the latest example of unstable people acting on the FALSE narrative. YOUR LIES ARE NOW KILLING PEOPLE!!! And you STILL defend it with “well, they did it, too!” NO WE DIDN’T!!! YOU DID!

YOU STILL DO! I have zero guilt today. And those of you who pay lip service to God and Jesus must surely know that your lies have no purchase in truly important circles. Lie to us all you like, but lying to yourself jeopardizes your immortal soul and if you don’t know that it’s WRONG to defend this shooting by talking about Obama’s references to freaking movies, your soul is already in danger of being lost forever. Those of you who use Jesus as a crutch for your BS ideologies, THIS is the put up or shut up moment. If you can’t figure out what’s moral and right in this regard, you are doomed beyond anything dreamed up in humanity. No tears for you.

And if you scum really want a shooting war, be warned. There will be no mercy for those who start the next American Civil War. NO MERCY!

Paul Westlake said:
Bullshit, you right wing shills! This is YOUR fault. This is what YOU wanted all along. The only reason you’re not celebrating like a bunch of Taliban on crack is because she’s not dead yet! Who the HELL do you think you’re kidding, you self-important scum!? YOU are the trigger people. YOU! Specifically YOU! Exactly YOU!

And Obama’s was quoting a freaking movie that everyone knows about, but perhaps you’re all too young to remember “The Untouchables.” Typical false equivalency from the criminal mind. YOU are the people who create the conditions for this. You can shout at me now for the rest of the afternoon. You can call me every name in the book. I will NEVER forget the things the right wing has done to America over the past three decades and this is just the beginning of the next phase from these scum-sucking neanderthals. You CELEBRATE the confederate flag and DEFEND slavery as a states rights issue and then have the temerity to complain that you’re misunderstood and that people who take politics seriously are the ones with screws loose? YOU have NO IDEA what you’re ushering into this nation. And by the time you do, it will be too late for you or any of us. This is what YOU have been trying to create all along and if you can’t see how YOU have been part of this problem, then YOU will be among the first to fall when the REAL shooting begins!

I’ve been warning about this for months, always with the typical right-wing shillery attacking me and defending the indefensible… always! This was not only predictable, it was PREDICTED!! Just like all the other MAJOR MISTAKES and OBVIOUS OUTCOMES of self-serving conservative policy all along, from economy crippling tax cuts to unnecessary wars in the middle east to the NON-STOP violent and dehumanizing rhetoric. YOU have been SO DESPERATE to defend the indefensible that your rhetoric MUST escalate to match the intensity of the failures. And this is just the latest example of unstable people acting on the FALSE narrative. YOUR LIES ARE NOW KILLING PEOPLE!!! And you STILL defend it with “well, they did it, too!” NO WE DIDN’T!!! YOU DID!

YOU STILL DO! I have zero guilt today. And those of you who pay lip service to God and Jesus must surely know that your lies have no purchase in truly important circles. Lie to us all you like, but lying to yourself jeopardizes your immortal soul and if you don’t know that it’s WRONG to defend this shooting by talking about Obama’s references to freaking movies, your soul is already in danger of being lost forever. Those of you who use Jesus as a crutch for your BS ideologies, THIS is the put up or shut up moment. If you can’t figure out what’s moral and right in this regard, you are doomed beyond anything dreamed up in humanity. No tears for you.

And if you scum really want a shooting war, be warned. There will be no mercy for those who start the next American Civil War. NO MERCY!

One problem Paul… it looks like he was on your team. Sorry.

Paul Westlake. You are an idiot rabble
rousing dickhead. Get lost

Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

Hard to believe how Obama allowed these old angry white people in the Dem party, to hijack and define his presidency. Oh, well. At least he got to see the inside of the White House.

Probably NOT wrong said:
Paul Westlake. You are an idiot rabble
rousing dickhead. Get lost

Truth hurts, eh? Scumbag!

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

no, liberals just put bulleyes

Paul Westlake said:
Bullshit, you right wing shills! This is YOUR fault. This is what YOU wanted all along. The only reason you’re not celebrating like a bunch of Taliban on crack is because she’s not dead yet! Who the HELL do you think you’re kidding, you self-important scum!? YOU are the trigger people. YOU! Specifically YOU! Exactly YOU!

Dupes like you are under the mistaken impression things are as they used to be when you profane venom was ingored by right-thinkers. No more.

Be as disgusting and profane as you wish, but nothing you say will reverse the violence advocated only LIBERALS such as Hussein Obamsa’s friends William Ayers, Van Jones, Mao worshippers, Black Panthers, Marxist revolutionaries,…………………..oh well, history is well documented. And history documents NO Conservative advocate of violence against the Left. So, keep chanting instead of providing substance. That’s all you’ve got.

You might, however, with enough vitriol and spittle, impress some confused teenager. The rest of America threw out you LIBERAL fakes from the House. Next is the Senate and Presidency.

Truth and Logic are what’s left standing after the facade of LIBERALISM crumbles from around them.

Plus, this guy was clearly unstable, with both Marx and Hitler on his reading list. He didn’t know what “team” he was on, just that the stakes were high enough, in his mind, to warrant violent action. Who keeps raising the stakes, every day? Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, Ingraham, etc, etc, etc. It’s the usual suspects every time. And they will be ALL OVER the false equivalencies on Monday. Fox will run a cavalcade of stories on how the worst rhetoric is on the left and yada yada… but sensible people know who started it. YOU! On the right! YOU started it!

ed schultz is just as inflamatory

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

Shall I pull up the map again which did just that?

Shall I remind you of the protests against Bush, and the violent rhetoric that for 8 years was called “freedom of speech” by the left.

You are truly one of the worst. Completely factless, all consumed by hate, and without any twinge of guilt or morals. You celebrate the death of a innocents -including a child- because you so hate people who disagree with you.

At least around these parts, it appears you have company. Terrible, terrible, company.

I’sn’t a coinicdence that Sarah Palin’s gun crosshairs pointed on her district. And I guess it’s only coincidence what the Sheriff said and I’m sure he wan’t meaning these phony Christians like Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, Sean Hanninty, Joyce Kaufmann and others.
Yes, all of this is just a coincidence.

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

Actually there are several examples you could easily find right now of Dems and liberal sites that did exactly that. Kos had this very Congresswoman on a “target” list. I understand your angry and I think anyone who sees this kind of thing in the news is. It’s how you handle that anger. I get just as angry when I see violent leftist beating police at G8 summits but I try my best to not blame all people of the left for those few who chose to behave that way. Or PETA and ALF members beating scientist and bombing labs that slow the possibility of my wife finding a cure. Those animal rights nuts cannot make me angry at all people who protect animals. Try and look at the big picture and realize most people are good and a lot of people use inflammitory language to make a point (left and right) but never want bad things to actually happen.

glenn113 said:
I’sn’t a coinicdence that Sarah Palin’s gun crosshairs pointed on her district. And I guess it’s only coincidence what the Sheriff said and I’m sure he wan’t meaning these phony Christians like Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, Sean Hanninty, Joyce Kaufmann and others.
Yes, all of this is just a coincidence.

Is Kos having her on a hit list the same coincidence?

Westlake likes to get on here and pretend he
is intelligent. Big time fail there!
No audience Paul!!! Much like MSNBC, you
nitwit! Who you talking to??

Fox News: Serving the Freeper community since 1996 said:
Sarah Palin is the spiritual leader for an awful group of people.

I doubt there is anyone in this country more awful than you and those who think like you.

Nope, sorry. It started on the right. The most violent rhetoric is on the right. The most paranoid delusions are on the right. Even the global warming issue feature WAY more scare tactics on the right! The economy “collapsing” is the vision they project. Liberal rhetoric on global warming is tame compared to the doomsday scenarios described by their opponents. NO WAY can you show that the left is anywhere near the right in its escalation tactics. EVERYTHING is the end of the nation on the right. EVERYTHING! THIS is the natural outcome of YOUR rhetoric.

YOU own this. Not us!

Paul Westlake said:
Plus, this guy was clearly unstable, with both Marx and Hitler on his reading list. He didn’t know what “team” he was on, just that the stakes were high enough, in his mind, to warrant violent action. Who keeps raising the stakes, every day? Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, Ingraham, etc, etc, etc. It’s the usual suspects every time. And they will be ALL OVER the false equivalencies on Monday. Fox will run a cavalcade of stories on how the worst rhetoric is on the left and yada yada… but sensible people know who started it. YOU! On the right! YOU started it!

Olbermann, Ed Shultz, Mike Malloy, Kos… for every ying there is a yang.

ImJustThatDamnGood said:
Be a big enough man and admit the conservative base is violent. Fox News and conservative talk radio has blood on their hands.

Trying to rationalize with the crazy regulars on this site is a waste of time.
There’s this inbred philosophy on the left that they are smarter than the rest of us. They don’t need to resort to violence because they can beat people with their minds through their tongues.
So any violent acts happening in this country can be attributed to anybody but them.
So when a Maddow jumps out or her chair frothing from her mouth that some guy was hanging from a tree with FED etched in his chest, with that hope in her face that she can tie it into the opposite side , no violence would ever come out of it. No apology either when they find out the guy offed himself.
The common sense theory tells you this guy is inbalanced. No normal individual would do something like this.

Probably NOT wrong said:
Westlake likes to get on here and pretend he
is intelligent. Big time fail there!
No audience Paul!!! Much like MSNBC, you
nitwit! Who you talking to??

Obviously, I’m talking to you, dipshit! Nobody is forcing you to reply. Get a grip!

Paul Westlake said:
Nope, sorry. It started on the right. The most violent rhetoric is on the right. The most paranoid delusions are on the right. Even the global warming issue feature WAY more scare tactics on the right! The economy “collapsing” is the vision they project. Liberal rhetoric on global warming is tame compared to the doomsday scenarios described by their opponents. NO WAY can you show that the left is anywhere near the right in its escalation tactics. EVERYTHING is the end of the nation on the right. EVERYTHING! THIS is the natural outcome of YOUR rhetoric.

YOU own this. Not us!

I hope your able to take a breath and calm down. This is a trying time. Be well.

gar said:
So when a Maddow jumps out or her chair frothing from her mouth that some guy was hanging from a tree with FED etched in his chest, with that hope in her face that she can tie it into the opposite side , no violence would ever come out of it. No apology either when they find out the guy offed himself.

Maddow did NOT jump out of her chair OR froth at the mouth, but she DID follow-up on that story and report that it was a suicide after the initial report, which everyone reported the same way, except Fox, because the initial impression of the incident made righties look bad.

Typical false equivalency from the guilt-ridden.

Paul Westlake said:
#

Bullshit, you right wing shills! This is YOUR fault. This is what YOU wanted all along. The only reason you’re not celebrating like a bunch of Taliban on crack is because she’s not dead yet! Who the HELL do you think you’re kidding, you self-important scum!? YOU are the trigger people. YOU! Specifically YOU! Exactly YOU!

And Obama’s was quoting a freaking movie that everyone knows about, but perhaps you’re all too young to remember “The Untouchables.” Typical false equivalency from the criminal mind. YOU are the people who create the conditions for this. You can shout at me now for the rest of the afternoon. You can call me every name in the book. I will NEVER forget the things the right wing has done to America over the past three decades and this is just the beginning of the next phase from these scum-sucking neanderthals. You CELEBRATE the confederate flag and DEFEND slavery as a states rights issue and then have the temerity to complain that you’re misunderstood and that people who take politics seriously are the ones with screws loose? YOU have NO IDEA what you’re ushering into this nation. And by the time you do, it will be too late for you or any of us. This is what YOU have been trying to create all along and if you can’t see how YOU have been part of this problem, then YOU will be among the first to fall when the REAL shooting begins!

I’ve been warning about this for months, always with the typical right-wing shillery attacking me and defending the indefensible… always! This was not only predictable, it was PREDICTED!! Just like all the other MAJOR MISTAKES and OBVIOUS OUTCOMES of self-serving conservative policy all along, from economy crippling tax cuts to unnecessary wars in the middle east to the NON-STOP violent and dehumanizing rhetoric. YOU have been SO DESPERATE to defend the indefensible that your rhetoric MUST escalate to match the intensity of the failures. And this is just the latest example of unstable people acting on the FALSE narrative. YOUR LIES ARE NOW KILLING PEOPLE!!! And you STILL defend it with “well, they did it, too!” NO WE DIDN’T!!! YOU DID!

YOU STILL DO! I have zero guilt today. And those of you who pay lip service to God and Jesus must surely know that your lies have no purchase in truly important circles. Lie to us all you like, but lying to yourself jeopardizes your immortal soul and if you don’t know that it’s WRONG to defend this shooting by talking about Obama’s references to freaking movies, your soul is already in danger of being lost forever. Those of you who use Jesus as a crutch for your BS ideologies, THIS is the put up or shut up moment. If you can’t figure out what’s moral and right in this regard, you are doomed beyond anything dreamed up in humanity. No tears for you.

And if you scum really want a shooting war, be warned. There will be no mercy for those who start the next American Civil War. NO MERCY!
#
tatboy tatboy says:

Westlake, you should be ashamed, although I’m sure you are not. Get real, man!

You failed again Paul!

tatboy said:
I hope your able to take a breath and calm down. This is a trying time. Be well.

I appreciate your concern. My life is fine. I’m not pissed for me. I’m pissed for her, and the family of the Federal Judge, and all the other victims’ families. I don’t get riled up when people crap on me… kinda comes with the territory. ;-)

But an incident like this was predicted. And seeing people use false equivalencies, which was also predicted, isn’t helping us get to the root of the problem… which is on the right. You have to own up to your own problems on the right if you want the left to be an honest broker. It’s a two-way street that the conservatives have been trying to make one-way for more than a generation now. The “no compromise”mentality is at the root of this. And liberals may be know for a lot of things, but never backing down is NOT one of them. The bullies are on the right. And it’s long past time the right owned up to that.

Patrick Henry said:
Westlake, you should be ashamed, although I’m sure you are not. Get real, man!

No, PH, YOU should be! Own your mistakes for a change. This belongs to the right. 100%!

tatboy said:
WOW shitbag… do I have to bring up all the violence of the left. You only focus on the right so it is all you see. It’s on both sides. Your bias prevents you from seeing that.

No,you’re wrong . It’s only a coincidence that Fox News, Sarah Palin and talk show hosts like Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Joyce Kaufmann and Sean Hannity preach hatred just like Jesus did. And of cource they are true Christians and follow what Jesus said about helping the poor and against violence.So how any of what they spew across the airwaves have anything to do with that. Silly me.

gar said:
Trying to rationalize with the crazy regulars on this site is a waste of time.
There’s this inbred philosophy on the left that they are smarter than the rest of us. They don’t need to resort to violence because they can beat people with their minds through their tongues.
So any violent acts happening in this country can be attributed to anybody but them.
So when a Maddow jumps out or her chair frothing from her mouth that some guy was hanging from a tree with FED etched in his chest, with that hope in her face that she can tie it into the opposite side , no violence would ever come out of it. No apology either when they find out the guy offed himself.
The common sense theory tells you this guy is inbalanced. No normal individual would do something like this.

Instead of being in a state of denial you should put forth some effort to defuse the crazy rhetoric in your base. People like you contributes to the violence by not putting pressure on your conservative figure-heads to stop the doomsday talk. Shame on you for not taking a stand.

Paul Westlake said:
Nope, sorry. It started on the right. The most violent rhetoric is on the right.

LMAO

What a benighted and sorrowful person you are.

Llibs not only started the hateful rhetoric, they bask in it!

MG, they were so dedicated to their hatred of Bush that they carried signs in PUBIC calling for his assassination!!!!!

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

And how rich is it that it is Dick Durbin calling for civil rhetoric- this is the same guy who compared US soldiers to Nazis. Where was your call for civility then Dick and what did you say about those libs carrying signs calling for Bush’s killing?

You were silent, you insufferable hypocrite.

I’m disgusted beyond words at how liberals are trying to turn this tragedy into an outlet for their Palin Derangement Syndrome. You obviously care more about ruining her political career than the victims. Every single time something like this happens, the left rushes to pin it to Palin, Fox, or Beck without just putting the blame where it belongs, on the murderer. You should be utterly ashamed, but I think you are unable to be ashamed at anything your side does anymore. It’s win at all costs. Seriously, what is wrong with you people!?

I’m sure that since Lee Harvey Oswald was on the political left, Paul is taking responsibility for the shooting of JFK.

“Reload” Sarah Palin, you betcha. Shameful

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
I’m disgusted beyond words at how liberals are trying to turn this tragedy into an outlet for their Palin Derangement Syndrome.

Yes, I’m sure they will portray the shooter as a “victim of his culture”,who needs to be excused for his abominable act so libs can make a political point.

BTW, libs- prove he was motivated by political rhetoric?

Go on, prove it.

notsofast said:
LMAO

What a benighted and sorrowful person you are.

Llibs not only started the hateful rhetoric, they bask in it!

MG, they were so dedicated to their hatred of Bush that they carried signs in PUBIC calling for his assassination!!!!!

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

And how rich is it that it is Dick Durbin calling for civil rhetoric- this is the same guy who compared US soldiers to Nazis. Where was your call for civility then Dick and what did you say about those libs carrying signs calling for Bush’s killing?

You were silent, you insufferable hypocrite.

The king of the false rhetoric shills arrives to spread his special brand hate-filled bile and anti-social insults. You have ALWAYS been a joke, but today you’re extremely UNfunny. Type until your fingers go bloody, nobody cares what you think except your bestest friends here in the lunatic right wing fringe. Enjoy your circle jerk, pervert.

Paul Westlake said:
Paul Westlake says:
January 9, 2011 at 12:55 pm Paul Westlake(Quote)
Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

I just showed what an ignorant and pathetic lib you are, son.

Say good-bye and go back to kindergarten!

To the leftwingnuts:
The political well was poisoned by the Left a long time ago. Who do you think motivated the violence and inflammatory rhetoric against American patriots who dared to question the socialist “community organizer” and his Dem myrmidons in the Congress?

A black Tea Party member, Kenneth Gladney, was viciously attacked by SEIU thugs at a townhall meeting.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/seiu-thugs-charged-in-gladney-assault/

Tea Party protesters attacked in Tampa, St. Louis, and Piedmont, North Carolina by leftist thugs.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/more-violence-from-leftwing-thugs/

Leftwing douchebaggers attack two GOP aides in Louisiana.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/gop-aides-attackedmore-violence-from-leftwing-douchebaggers/

Vitriol from your media pals:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/the-left-spews-more-hate-at-tea-party-patriots/

Compare and contrast Tea Party protests with the vitriolic ones conducted by leftwingnuts:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/the-lefts-protests-vs-the-tea-parties/

Andy Stern, a good buddy of Obama, calls us “terrroists”.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/seiu-thug-andy-stern-calls-senate-obamacare-opponents-campaign-spending-supporters-terrorists/

A summary of the Dem assault on American free speech:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/the-democrats-assault-on-america/

Those are just a FEW of the articles and news reports of the violence, vitriol, and hatespeech flung at patriotic Americans.
The Tea Party movement is dismissed, disrespected, and denigrated by leftwingnut politicians, pundits, and main stream media hacks. The Party is composed of a cross-section of America—average people—who are fed up with the hubris of elected officials who ignore our concerns and our rights.

That’s what scares the living hell out of socialist effetes; that ordinary Americans stand up to them and the “messiah” in the White House, and demand that they actually respect us and the Constitution.

This time it’s different. The Silent Majority has suddenly become vocal. The sheeple aren’t behaving according to the proscribed business-as- usual etiquette. That’s why you got shellacked in the mid-term elections.

When it comes to violence and incendiary rhetoric, the leftwingnuts wrote the book.

Straighten out your own bat-shit crazy comrades before you accuse others.

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

Really, Paul? I’ll search in vain?
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

Daily Kos Blogger: Gabby Giffords Is Dead to Me
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/01/daily-kos-blogg.html

Daily Kos actually put a “bulls eye” (sic) on Gabrielle Giffords back in June of 2008:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png
http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/

Video Shows Media Hypocrisy Concerning Right-wing Hate Speech
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/03/31/video-highlights-media-hypocrisy-concerning-rightwing-hate-speech#ixzz1AYueAwCz

Palin is just one of many public figures on the right who spout violent rhetoric. And Palin is a sock-puppet with no original thought. I wouldn’t pin this on Palin. But she happily adopts the most extreme rhetoric as part of her media act. So she’s part of it, but hardly the root cause. Beck, Limbaugh and company are much more to blame.

puck30 said:
Could it be that is why their ratings are in the crapper?

Has anyone noticed that since Fox News has been called out and finally exposed to the public by all the other news outlets how they misrepresent the facts on their network. That’s why their ratings are going down. They are losing their Independent listeners.

Gay intern credited with saving Giffords’ life

http://mylife-22.blogspot.com/2011/01/gay-intern-credited-with-saving.html

The Fort Hood shooter must have been listening to Palin.

Paul Westlake said:
Maddow did NOT jump out of her chair OR froth at the mouth, but she DID follow-up on that story and report that it was a suicide after the initial report, which everyone reported the same way, except Fox, because the initial impression of the incident made righties look bad. Typical false equivalency from the guilt-ridden.

Watch the segment, maybe the strap-on was getting to her .

Sara, the sites you linked to ARE part of the problem. Newsbusters? You keep believing all the lies you like. I operate in the fact-based community. You oughtta be ashamed of yourself.

Paul Westlake said:
Beck, Limbaugh and company are much more to blame.

Show me where they called for someone’s death, like KO called for Hillary’s.

And oh, by the way, Loughner is a leftwingnut mental case (redundant) with an ax to grind against “illiteracy” and “government mind control”.

ImJustThatDamnGood said:
Instead of being in a state of denial you should put forth some effort to defuse the crazy rhetoric in your base. People like you contributes to the violence by not putting pressure on your conservative figure-heads to stop the doomsday talk. Shame on you for not taking a stand.

Are you fucking serious.

Patrick Henry said:
Westlake, you should be ashamed, although I’m sure you are not. Get real, man!

He can’t experience shame…………….he’s a LIBERAL. They must sell their souls to support the culture of violence, corruption, and death that always swirl around Liberal policy.

He’s just a little boy scared of being accurately identified…………………that’s the Liberals’ greatest terror. Let him rage on, pretending that repetition and volume somehow will overcome Truth and Logic.

BTW, this madman knew EXACTLY what side he stands with………………..the same side as all LIBERALS: Hitler and Lenin were both Jew-hating Progressive Socialists.

Paul Westlake said:
Sara, the sites you linked to ARE part of the problem. Newsbusters? You keep believing all the lies you like. I operate in the fact-based community. You oughtta be ashamed of yourself.

why don’t you look at the content? Because the truth hurts? The Newsbusters link is to a video that has nothing to do with Newsbusters. You should be ashamed of yourself for your head in the sand one sided, hostile misguided outlook.

gar said:
Watch the segment, maybe the strap-on was getting to her .

I watch Rachel every night. I remember the segment you describe and the several follow-ups that you conveniently left out. You’re wrong. And Rachel is not where you want to find false equivalencies. Bring up Ed Schultz and you get no argument out of me. Keith Olbermann is a lot of bombast, too (though, not to such a violent extreme). But Rachel is about the best you’ll find on TV right now. That dog won’t hunt.

Here, you can view the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6b1VOAATNk&feature=player_embedded

sarainitaly said:
why don’t you look at the content? Because the truth hurts? The Newsbusters link is to a video that has nothing to do with Newsbusters. You should be ashamed of yourself for your head in the sand one sided, hostile misguided outlook.

Because those sites have been discredited multiple times and I’m not wasting my time on BS. Find legitimate stories on reputable journalism outlets and I’ll click away.

But after football…

Notsofast says:

Yes, I’m sure they will portray the shooter as a “victim of his culture”,who needs to be excused for his abominable act so libs can make a political point.

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this. When 9/11 happened, it was “what did big, bad America to do drive the terrorists to their acts of violence”, when the Ft. Hood shooting happened, it was, “Well of course it was Bush’s fault for starting a war in a Muslim nation, Who could blame this Muslim soldier for snapping?”. The psychologist in me says it stems from their fear of personal responsibility.

sarainitaly said:
Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

sarainitaly says:
Really, Paul? I’ll search in vain?
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647
Daily Kos Blogger: Gabby Giffords Is Dead to Me
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/01/daily-kos-blogg.html
Daily Kos actually put a “bulls eye” (sic) on Gabrielle Giffords back in June of 2008:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png

Paul Westlake said:
I operate in the fact-based community.

I think we all can see that is absolutely 100% not true.

Paul Westlake said:
Beck, Limbaugh and company are much more to blame.

Paul, Glenn and Rush have NEVER promoted violence.

Davo said:
He can’t experience shame…………….he’s a LIBERAL.

THIS is a perfect example of the dehumanizing rhetoric used on the right. I never said anyone was subhuman, but that’s precisely the implication here. And once liberals aren’t recognized as human anymore, killing them is MUCH easier. Davo is the kind of person that really wants to get out there and start killing people with impunity. A civil war would be the best outcome to a scumbag like Davo, so he could finally act out all his violent fantasies without running the risk of jail time. How brave you are, Davo. What a real man you must be! Your machismo just oozes off the page. I bet you have hair growing on your tongue, you’re so macho!

Another total joke!

glenn113 said:
Has anyone noticed that since Fox News has been called out and finally exposed to the public by all the other news outlets how they misrepresent the facts on their network. That’s why their ratings are going down. They are losing their Independent listeners.

There is nothing like a tragedy to bring out lib liars like this guy and Paul Westlake.

FOX’s ratings are going down?

I guess no one has told the viewers!!!!

Live + Same Day Cable News Daily Ratings for January 6, 2011

Total Day

Total Day
FNC 1,219
CNN 337
MSNBC 460
CNBC 253
HLN 277

Bawahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Paul Westlake said:
Because those sites have been discredited multiple times and I’m not wasting my time on BS. Find legitimate stories on reputable journalism outlets and I’ll click away.
But after football…

*eyeroll*

“i’m not wasting my time on facts. I much prefer the Media Matters version of *reality*.”

Paul says:

Because those sites have been discredited multiple times and I’m not wasting my time on BS. Find legitimate stories on reputable journalism outlets and I’ll click away.

I love it when libs slam newsbusters when all they do is use actual footage of the left. I can understand how it’s easier for them to just shoot the messenger then have to defend their findings.

But after football

Go Seahawks!!! What a game! I want them to win it all for the sheer joy of seeing everyones head explode that a team with a losing record won the Super Bowl!!

Sirhan Sirhan was a Palin supporter, and she was only like three years old at the time. What influence!

Patrick Henry said:
Paul, Glenn and Rush have NEVER promoted violence.

Oh yes they have! Not directly (though I bet I could find some examples if I had the time to look), but indirectly and by implication, yes they have, and they do, and they will again starting Monday. That’s just silly, PH.

sarainitaly said:
*eyeroll*

“i’m not wasting my time on facts. I much prefer the Media Matters version of *reality*.”

You’re the one linking to right wing websites? Are you allergic to real journalism?

Paul, you’re an idiot. They have not and you know it. But by all means, post your “proof” moron.

BTW, Paul the Liar, show me signs of conservatives carrying signs at a public rally calling for the death of BHO.

Ps, I must apologize for breaking one of my NY’s resolutions to not use the word moron as much, but I’m sure you guys can see how difficult that is when dealing with the left.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Go Seahawks!!! What a game! I want them to win it all for the sheer joy of seeing everyones head explode that a team with a losing record won the Super Bowl!!

I agree with that! I’m a Rams fan (sad face) so it galls me, but it’s also kinda great to see that storyline infecting this postseason. A fun story for sure.

Sfc Mac said:
To the leftwingnuts:
The political well was poisoned by the Left a long time ago. Who do you think motivated the violence and inflammatory rhetoric against American patriots who dared to question the socialist “community organizer” and his Dem myrmidons in the Congress?

A black Tea Party member, Kenneth Gladney, was viciously attacked by SEIU thugs at a townhall meeting.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/seiu-thugs-charged-in-gladney-assault/

Tea Party protesters attacked in Tampa, St. Louis, and Piedmont, North Carolina by leftist thugs.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/more-violence-from-leftwing-thugs/

Leftwing douchebaggers attack two GOP aides in Louisiana.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/gop-aides-attackedmore-violence-from-leftwing-douchebaggers/

Vitriol from your media pals:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/the-left-spews-more-hate-at-tea-party-patriots/

Compare and contrast Tea Party protests with the vitriolic ones conducted by leftwingnuts:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/the-lefts-protests-vs-the-tea-parties/

Andy Stern, a good buddy of Obama, calls us “terrroists”.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/seiu-thug-andy-stern-calls-senate-obamacare-opponents-campaign-spending-supporters-terrorists/

A summary of the Dem assault on American free speech:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/the-democrats-assault-on-america/

Those are just a FEW of the articles and news reports of the violence, vitriol, and hatespeech flung at patriotic Americans.
The Tea Party movement is dismissed, disrespected, and denigrated by leftwingnut politicians, pundits, and main stream media hacks. The Party is composed of a cross-section of America—average people—who are fed up with the hubris of elected officials who ignore our concerns and our rights.

That’s what scares the living hell out of socialist effetes; that ordinary Americans stand up to them and the “messiah” in the White House, and demand that they actually respect us and the Constitution.

This time it’s different. The Silent Majority has suddenly become vocal. The sheeple aren’t behaving according to the proscribed business-as- usual etiquette. That’s why you got shellacked in the mid-term elections.

When it comes to violence and incendiary rhetoric, the leftwingnuts wrote the book.

Straighten out your own bat-shit crazy comrades before you accuse others.

RIGHT ON. The left is in denial about all this. They have been trying to protrya the Tea Party as violent since day one, and have thoroughly failed. Personally, I think the TP is a bunch of loons, but they have not been shown to be violent.

ABC Interviews Friend of Giffords Shooter, Ignores Her Claim He’s Liberal
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/09/abc-interviews-friend-giffords-shooter-ignores-her-claim-hes-liberal#ixzz1AYy5ut3v

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
I love it when libs slam newsbusters when all they do is use actual footage of the left. I can understand how it’s easier for them to just shoot the messenger then have to defend their findings.

I know! they can’t deal with those sticky things called *facts*.

Paul Westlake said:
THIS is a perfect example of the dehumanizing rhetoric used on the right. I never said anyone was subhuman, but that’s precisely the implication here. And once liberals aren’t recognized as human anymore, killing them is MUCH easier. Davo is the kind of person that really wants to get out there and start killing people with impunity. A civil war would be the best outcome to a scumbag like Davo, so he could finally act out all his violent fantasies without running the risk of jail time. How brave you are, Davo. What a real man you must be! Your machismo just oozes off the page. I bet you have hair growing on your tongue, you’re so macho! Another total joke!

you got sub-human out of quote, man what a leap that was

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Paul, you’re an idiot. They have not and you know it. But by all means, post your “proof” moron.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

cjd ohio 1 said:
you got sub-human out of quote, man what a leap that was

Sniper got nothing else to offer as usual, so he snipes.

Paul is as delusional as Jared Loughner, the gunman.

Did Obama get his gun! Wonder what he’s saying now? How about all the LSM? Bet they have short memories!

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

I’m slept in today, did I miss Paul’s outrage at the Daily Ko’s putting Gifford in their crosshairs and saying she’s dead to them?

Paul Westlake said:
You’re the one linking to right wing websites? Are you allergic to real journalism?

why not address the maps made by dems showing targets on republicans? why not address the rhetoric posted by Kos? Why are you ignoring the facts that completely prove your statement to be 100% false?

Paul says:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

I’ll take that as, “I have no proof, so I will pretend you were joking”.

Sorry, Sen. Durbin, but calling that weasel out on CNN doesn’t cut it. You should have been speaking out loud and clear when she started drawing “targets” on congressional districts. A moron could have seen something like this coming, but you guys time what you say to the news cycle, not what’s good for the American people. Maybe what happened yesterday will motivate the rest of you to man up and face that degenerate, who almost became our Vice-President. It’s all about getting re-elected, right?

You idiots can find examples of violence on the left all you like. There are many more on the right, but what you aren’t finding is the equivalent violent rhetoric in the so-called liberal media. You got nothing on that front. You all think Brian Williams is in the tank for the left but you won’t ind any examples of him spouting crap like that. MSNBC is your ONLY example, and aren’t their rating too low to count? Isn’t that what you say all the time? You people are totally delusional.

Paul Westlake said:
Sniper got nothing else to offer as usual, so he snipes.

well you are so easy, you are a little slow

sarainitaly said:
why not address the maps made by dems showing targets on republicans? why not address the rhetoric posted by Kos? Why are you ignoring the facts that completely prove your statement to be 100% false?

So, in other words, “yes, I am allergic to legitimate journalism.”

“My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!” — eerie Daily Kos hit piece on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before assassination attempt; repeated use of word “dead” in relation to Giffords just 48 hours before she and a dozen others were fired upon. UPDATE: Daily Kos scrubs “dead to me” thread but screengrabs document everything; UPDATE: school classmates and former friends describe shooter Jared Lee Loughner as committed Leftist.”

http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Paul says:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

I’ll take that as, “I have no proof, so I will pretend you were joking”.

I wasn’t laughing with you. I was laughing AT you.

sarainitaly said:
why not address the maps made by dems showing targets on republicans? why not address the rhetoric posted by Kos? Why are you ignoring the facts that completely prove your statement to be 100% false?

OK, football now. All of you who pretend to be Christians… you should know that you’re all going to hell.

OK, have a nice day.

Paul Westlake said:
Bullshit, you right wing shills! This is YOUR fault. This is what YOU wanted all along. The only reason you’re not celebrating like a bunch of Taliban on crack is because she’s not dead yet! Who the HELL do you think you’re kidding, you self-important scum!? YOU are the trigger people. YOU! Specifically YOU! Exactly YOU! And Obama’s was quoting a freaking movie that everyone knows about, but perhaps you’re all too young to remember “The Untouchables.” Typical false equivalency from the criminal mind. YOU are the people who create the conditions for this. You can shout at me now for the rest of the afternoon. You can call me every name in the book. I will NEVER forget the things the right wing has done to America over the past three decades and this is just the beginning of the next phase from these scum-sucking neanderthals. You CELEBRATE the confederate flag and DEFEND slavery as a states rights issue and then have the temerity to complain that you’re misunderstood and that people who take politics seriously are the ones with screws loose? YOU have NO IDEA what you’re ushering into this nation. And by the time you do, it will be too late for you or any of us. This is what YOU have been trying to create all along and if you can’t see how YOU have been part of this problem, then YOU will be among the first to fall when the REAL shooting begins! I’ve been warning about this for months, always with the typical right-wing shillery attacking me and defending the indefensible… always! This was not only predictable, it was PREDICTED!! Just like all the other MAJOR MISTAKES and OBVIOUS OUTCOMES of self-serving conservative policy all along, from economy crippling tax cuts to unnecessary wars in the middle east to the NON-STOP violent and dehumanizing rhetoric. YOU have been SO DESPERATE to defend the indefensible that your rhetoric MUST escalate to match the intensity of the failures. And this is just the latest example of unstable people acting on the FALSE narrative. YOUR LIES ARE NOW KILLING PEOPLE!!! And you STILL defend it with “well, they did it, too!” NO WE DIDN’T!!! YOU DID! YOU STILL DO! I have zero guilt today. And those of you who pay lip service to God and Jesus must surely know that your lies have no purchase in truly important circles. Lie to us all you like, but lying to yourself jeopardizes your immortal soul and if you don’t know that it’s WRONG to defend this shooting by talking about Obama’s references to freaking movies, your soul is already in danger of being lost forever. Those of you who use Jesus as a crutch for your BS ideologies, THIS is the put up or shut up moment. If you can’t figure out what’s moral and right in this regard, you are doomed beyond anything dreamed up in humanity. No tears for you. And if you scum really want a shooting war, be warned. There will be no mercy for those who start the next American Civil War. NO MERCY!

you bitch about hate speech, then do the same thing, you make it easy

Stop deflecting Paul and post your “proof”. Let me guess, it’s the same place that GBR is hiding his end of career evidence against Beck.

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

sarainitaly says:
Really, Paul? I’ll search in vain?
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647
Daily Kos Blogger: Gabby Giffords Is Dead to Me
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/01/daily-kos-blogg.html
Daily Kos actually put a “bulls eye” (sic) on Gabrielle Giffords back in June of 2008:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png

Paul Westlake said:
I operate in the fact-based community.

I think we all can see that is absolutely 100% not true.

Paul Westlake said:
I agree with that! I’m a Rams fan (sad face) so it galls me, but it’s also kinda great to see that storyline infecting this postseason. A fun story for sure.

I agree with you there, Paul. My Cowboys disintegrated early and I have a friend whose son plays for the Seahawks. I will be rooting for them the rest of the way.

If you are criticizing how quickly the media is writing articles about this story – left media or right media – remember, that’s their job. Are you expecting the Daily Kos or other media outlets to ignore the story.

What’s interesting to note is that you bloggers jumped on the story and started calling each other names even before the media started. So, why not criticize “blogging?”

An informed viewer KNOWS that when they watch MSNBC, they are getting the liberal pov and when they view FOX, they are getting the conservative. It’s the people who buy in to the pov without being able to think for themselves who are dangerous, like deranged Loughner.

Well, here’s my 2-cents to boot. I think the Republican side is much more aggressive and hateful in their commentaries. OK, so now you can start yelling at me.

Hey Paul, you have a convert to your logic; I hear that the CEO of a major grocery chain has released a statement saying this shooting proves Safeway Supermarkets promote violence.

ABC Interviews Friend of Giffords Shooter, Ignores Her Claim He’s Liberal

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/09/abc-interviews-friend-giffords-shooter-ignores-her-claim-hes-liberal#ixzz1AZ2sm3vZ

ellyfaden said:
. I think the Republican side is much more aggressive and hateful in their commentaries.

Yes, unlike KO and other libs calling for the death of people.

Elly says:

Well, here’s my 2-cents to boot. I think the Republican side is much more aggressive and hateful in their commentaries

Feel free to prove that riduculous statement.

ellyfaden said:
Well, here’s my 2-cents to boot. I think the Republican side is much more aggressive and hateful in their commentaries. OK, so now you can start yelling at me.

No reason to tell at you, but looking at this thread, how do you come up with that conclusion?

I think Paul’s rhetoric is inciting violence towards conservatives.

Patrick Henry said:
No reason to tell at you, but looking at this thread, how do you come up with that conclusion?

Patrick Henry said:
No reason to tell at you

Sorry, “yell” at you.

Sure thing, Dick. I presume them the Democratic National Campaign Committee stuff using “targeting” and bull’s-eyes on Republican candidates was equally reprehensible?

I would ask anyone who has gotten wound up in this discussion about Tea Partiers vs liberals to honestly consider a few hypotheticals.

1. Assume for a minute that tomorrow, we find out the shooter’s writings and videos and history line up completely with whatever political positions YOU preach. Then ask yourself if you will conclude your ideology and beliefs were wrong, based on this shooter having espoused them? If not, ask yourself what would you say to the rabid “other side” when they claim his actions disprove your ideology, or that his actions are your fault? And then consider what you say now in light of what might yet be revealed, in the face of certain uncertainty.

2. Then I would ask that you consider a second hypothetical. Imagine your reaction if a *logistically-similar* shooting took place in 1943, where someone with a brain tumor shot Hitler and a bunch of bystanders, including a nine year old girl, all at point blank range. (Meaning, all the victims were deliberately shot, not the victims of stray gunfire.) And the shooter had written a bunch of anti-Nazi rants. If you imagine such a scenario, would the shooter be a hero in your eyes, even though he had deliberately killed the innocent girl? Would the shooter’s actions prove that Nazism was a correct ideology, because the evil guy who murdered a nine year old girl was anti-Nazi?

3. Last, consider the exact same situation where a shooter deliberately kills Gandhi and a nine year old girl. Does the deliberate murder of the innocent child prove the shooter is wrong, and thus prove that Gandhi was correct in his political work and ideology?

I ask because I would like people to consider the proper de-coupling of your own thoughts and beliefs, and everyone else’s thoughts and beliefs, from the actions of anyone who would deliberately shoot a nine year old girl at point blank range.

Regardless of what we find out someday about how this person ranted, regardless of what political positions he claimed to support, his actions neither prove nor disprove those ideologies. And thus, the claims of those here, trying to staple BADNESS to any ideology based on this shooting, are inherently absurd. Such leaps of illogic are pure foolishness by those who believe the nonsense, and genuine evil by those who know better.

(P.S. Anyone who is so logically bankrupt as to think my suggests I believe that Gabrielle Giffords is Hitler (or Gandhi for that matter), please ‘drop the gun and give the bag to Bozo. You may the dumbest person on the face of the Earth.’)

1. Assume for a minute that tomorrow, we find out the shooter’s writings and videos and history line up completely with whatever political positions YOU preach. Then ask yourself if you will conclude your ideology and beliefs were wrong, based on this shooter having espoused them?

No I wouldn’t because my ideology does NOT condone violence. I would think what I think whenever something like this happens, that it’s the shooters fault and nothing else.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
1. Assume for a minute that tomorrow, we find out the shooter’s writings and videos and history line up completely with whatever political positions YOU preach. Then ask yourself if you will conclude your ideology and beliefs were wrong, based on this shooter having espoused them?

No I wouldn’t because my ideology does NOT condone violence. I would think what I think whenever something like this happens, that it’s the shooters fault and nothing else.

Human beings always cease to amaze me.

I don’t think, for the most part, that bloggers who add comments to a news story, are “evil.” Although I do believe that evil lurks in the heart of man – in all of us. Mother Theresa and Mahatma Ghandi evolved into who they were through lives of trials and tribulations. We all live those lives.

A lot of teens these days are misguided, frustrated, lethargic, addicts…it almost feels like a lost generation. I know several who just can’t seem to get their act together. Loughner is representative of a person exposed to powerful rhetoric who made his own choice, and final decision, about how to act.

I think he is on the opposite extreme of a teen who commits suicide. We are all on a spectrum.

Durbin has frequently made statements that were beyond the pale. He has no room to criticize ANYONE.

Paul Westlake said:
Oh yes they have (Glenn and Rush)! Not directly (though I bet I could find some examples if I had the time to look), but indirectly and by implication 9violence), yes they have, and they do, and they will again starting Monday. That’s just silly, PH.

Oh, you really, really want to find examples, but you just can’t find the time? LOL!

Paul Westlake said:
You idiots can find examples of violence on the left all you like. There are many more on the right, but what you aren’t finding is the equivalent violent rhetoric in the so-called liberal media.

But, you still don’t have the time for examples. But you DID find time to try to shift the discussion away from LIBERAL advocates of violence (Yep……….I DID find the time. Just look earlier today on this thread), and over to LIBERAL media that does avoid blatantly advocating Leftist violence, but just gives it a wink.

Cummon, Westlake……………..your cover is blown. You love getting attention enough to spew BS even YOU know is just…………………BS. Myth Busted!!!

Elly,
I appreciate your comment, but you still haven’t posted any proof to back up your claim that the right is more aggressive and violent in their rhetoric. If you’re going to make that claim, you really need to back it up or retract it.

This is very well said:

The Media & The Shooter

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/01/09/the-media-the-shooter/

I remember the photo op with John Kerry walking around with a shotgun. Is THAT was he was trying to say???

Also I wonder why the Huffington Post used rifle scope bulls-eyes to target places, including the victim of this insane shooter. You can see it at http://www.archive.org although it has been taken down from HuffPo.

ellyfaden said:
If you are criticizing how quickly the media is writing articles about this story – left media or right media – remember, that’s their job. Are you expecting the Daily Kos or other media outlets to ignore the story. What’s interesting to note is that you bloggers jumped on the story and started calling each other names even before the media started. So, why not criticize “blogging?” An informed viewer KNOWS that when they watch MSNBC, they are getting the liberal pov and when they view FOX, they are getting the conservative. It’s the people who buy in to the pov without being able to think for themselves who are dangerous, like deranged Loughner. Well, here’s my 2-cents to boot. I think the Republican side is much more aggressive and hateful in their commentaries. OK, so now you can start yelling at me.

No yelling,
When you feel you’ve been wrongly accused of something more passion comes out. Playing defense is a lot more physical.

He’s making a connection between visual political rhetoric and some lunatic. This is just how far a political beggar will go to attack those that are trying to rid Washington of people like him. Twisting this tragedy into something it isn’t, is just how reprehensibly repulsive these political hacks will take this to attack the opposition . This clown should be run out of office.

Paul Westlake said:
I watch Rachel every night. I remember the segment you describe and the several follow-ups that you conveniently left out. You’re wrong. And Rachel is not where you want to find false equivalencies. Bring up Ed Schultz and you get no argument out of me. Keith Olbermann is a lot of bombast, too (though, not to such a violent extreme). But Rachel is about the best you’ll find on TV right now. That dog won’t hunt.

It was Dean filling in for her that reported it as a suicide.

Paul Westlake said:

And if you scum really want a shooting war, be warned. There will be no mercy for those who start the next American Civil War. NO MERCY!

Hmmm Interesting to here you say that. Since a Civil War is already in progress. Started by the progressives and their desire to shred the Constitution. Welcome aboard….

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
my ideology does NOT condone violence. I would think what I think whenever something like this happens, that it’s the shooters fault and nothing else.

Two characteristics of everything you write, Michelle-in-Utah:

(1) Complete intellectual dishonesty. You spew more hatred on this site than any regular poster except perhaps Just4theFax. It is daily, it is vitriolic and it condones the sort of violence we saw in Arizona.

(2) Complete absolution for you, your ideological partners and your “faith” despite the history of hate and violence and their tolerance for it.

Enough of your hateful rhetoric and lack of accountability. Enough I say! Apologize. Purge yourself. Come into the fold of the reasonable and responsible.

Paul Westlake said:
Bullshit, you right wing shills! This is YOUR fault. This is what YOU wanted all along. The only reason you’re not celebrating like a bunch of Taliban on crack is because she’s not dead yet! Who the HELL do you think you’re kidding, you self-important scum!? YOU are the trigger people. YOU! Specifically YOU! Exactly YOU! And Obama’s was quoting a freaking movie that everyone knows about, but perhaps you’re all too young to remember “The Untouchables.” Typical false equivalency from the criminal mind. YOU are the people who create the conditions for this. You can shout at me now for the rest of the afternoon. You can call me every name in the book. I will NEVER forget the things the right wing has done to America over the past three decades and this is just the beginning of the next phase from these scum-sucking neanderthals. You CELEBRATE the confederate flag and DEFEND slavery as a states rights issue and then have the temerity to complain that you’re misunderstood and that people who take politics seriously are the ones with screws loose? YOU have NO IDEA what you’re ushering into this nation. And by the time you do, it will be too late for you or any of us. This is what YOU have been trying to create all along and if you can’t see how YOU have been part of this problem, then YOU will be among the first to fall when the REAL shooting begins! I’ve been warning about this for months, always with the typical right-wing shillery attacking me and defending the indefensible… always! This was not only predictable, it was PREDICTED!! Just like all the other MAJOR MISTAKES and OBVIOUS OUTCOMES of self-serving conservative policy all along, from economy crippling tax cuts to unnecessary wars in the middle east to the NON-STOP violent and dehumanizing rhetoric. YOU have been SO DESPERATE to defend the indefensible that your rhetoric MUST escalate to match the intensity of the failures. And this is just the latest example of unstable people acting on the FALSE narrative. YOUR LIES ARE NOW KILLING PEOPLE!!! And you STILL defend it with “well, they did it, too!” NO WE DIDN’T!!! YOU DID! YOU STILL DO! I have zero guilt today. And those of you who pay lip service to God and Jesus must surely know that your lies have no purchase in truly important circles. Lie to us all you like, but lying to yourself jeopardizes your immortal soul and if you don’t know that it’s WRONG to defend this shooting by talking about Obama’s references to freaking movies, your soul is already in danger of being lost forever. Those of you who use Jesus as a crutch for your BS ideologies, THIS is the put up or shut up moment. If you can’t figure out what’s moral and right in this regard, you are doomed beyond anything dreamed up in humanity. No tears for you. And if you scum really want a shooting war, be warned. There will be no mercy for those who start the next American Civil War. NO MERCY!

Take a pill and calm down. There have been and always will be nuts on both sides. A friend of the shooter was on the tube this AM and said he was always a left wing liberal.

Paul Westlake said:
And if you scum really want a shooting war, be warned. There will be no mercy for those who start the next American Civil War. NO MERCY!

Now that’s violent speech for sure! You are a lib aren’t you?

ellyfaden said:
Loughner is representative of a person exposed to powerful rhetoric who made his own choice, and final decision, about how to act.

Great opinion- now prove that the so called “powerful rhetoric” drove him to do this.

I’ll wait, dear.

Paul Westlake said:
You all think Brian Williams is in the tank for the left but you won’t ind any examples of him spouting crap like that. MSNBC is your ONLY example

No, son, I think when Brian bowed to Barry during his one on one with Barry , sealed Williams’ fate.

http://www.thehopeforamerica.com/play.php?id=1179

Certainly Palin & similar Republiscum bear responsibility. We allowed the Right Wing to inject its poison into the Nation’s bloodstream – and this is a firm result. Repugs exhibit a form of mass insanity. They are but merchants of hatred, ignorance, intolerance, misunderstanding, treachery. Little People who would be best erradicated from our very midst. The more you see of them, the more they display layer after layer of human weakness, indecency, uncivility So here we have yet another Right Wing step down the path to national intellectual & cultural destruction..

Nachi said:
Certainly Palin & similar Republiscum bear responsibility.

Just as much as Safeway does, dullard!

Nachi said:
Certainly Palin & similar Republiscum bear responsibility.

Your post is on the internet for anyone to read. If some nut harms Palin or some other Republican to avenge the Giffords shooting, will you stay consistent with your own logic and take responsibility?

cjd ohio 1 said:
you bitch about hate speech, then do the same thing, you make it easy

Holding people accountable for their own hateful rhetoric is not hate speech. But that whining defense is very typical of the bully who just got poked in the nose. Wah! He hurt me!

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Stop deflecting Paul and post your “proof”. Let me guess, it’s the same place that GBR is hiding his end of career evidence against Beck.

sarainitaly said:
sarainitaly says:
Really, Paul? I’ll search in vain?
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647
Daily Kos Blogger: Gabby Giffords Is Dead to Me
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/01/daily-kos-blogg.html
Daily Kos actually put a “bulls eye” (sic) on Gabrielle Giffords back in June of 2008:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png

I think we all can see that is absolutely 100% not true.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
ABC Interviews Friend of Giffords Shooter, Ignores Her Claim He’s Liberal

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/09/abc-interviews-friend-giffords-shooter-ignores-her-claim-hes-liberal#ixzz1AZ2sm3vZ

This is what I mean. You use the right wing echo chamber to defend the indefensible while shunnig those outlets that really do show an ability to balance their reporting with actual facts…

- http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-jared-loughner-20110109,0,2181211.story
- http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-jared-loughner-shooting-20110108,0,6783566.story
- http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/wire/sns-ap-us-congresswoman-shot-gunman,0,4188865.story

What this shows is very messed up person. And what we know about people like this is that they’re easily ramped up into a frenzy by seeing the stakes get raised by increasingly apocalyptic rhetoric every day. Every day! But since it’s the LA Times, I’m sure the reactionaries will just chalk it up to “liberal media bias” that the “lamestream media” isn’t buying into their BS narrative.

Davo said:
Oh, you really, really want to find examples, but you just can’t find the time? LOL!

And if you hate the LA Times, let’s see how you guys react when I post stuff from NPR and Media Matters…

- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130763437&ft=3&f=
- http://mediamatters.org/blog/201010280036

This one features the most ironic excuse… Beck didn’t inspire him because he actually wasn’t fighting hard enough! Fox was a let-down for not actually raising an army, it seems?

- http://www.examiner.com/sf-in-san-francisco/freeway-gunman-byron-williams-says-glenn-beck-did-not-incite-him-to-violence

Jack Burns said:
Hmmm Interesting to here you say that. Since a Civil War is already in progress. Started by the progressives and their desire to shred the Constitution. Welcome aboard….

Yes, because conservatives aren’t the ones trying to water down or eliminate the civil rights amendments, or the direct election of Senators, or redefining corporations as living people, or trying to codify discrimination against homosexuals, etc, etc. Oh, wait. You mean “socialized medicine” don’t you.

Oooooh… soooooocialism… spoooooky!

OldGuy said:
Take a pill and calm down. There have been and always will be nuts on both sides. A friend of the shooter was on the tube this AM and said he was always a left wing liberal.

I know there have always been nuts. What’s different now is that they have a cheering section… which you can see in action right here, right now, with all the false equivalencies. And the spin is only just beginning. You can see by his own writings that he was neither conservative, nor liberal. He was confused. But the theme here is that everyone sees the stakes as getting higher and higher. To listen to Fox and the sirens on right wing radio is to see a nation on the brink of destruction, all day, every day. Unstable people buy into that crap, from both sides.

I have one more post in me to explain why…

…because these are excellent points…

Just_MC said:
I would ask anyone who has gotten wound up in this discussion about Tea Partiers vs liberals to honestly consider a few hypotheticals.

1. Assume for a minute that tomorrow, we find out the shooter’s writings and videos and history line up completely with whatever political positions YOU preach. Then ask yourself if you will conclude your ideology and beliefs were wrong, based on this shooter having espoused them? If not, ask yourself what would you say to the rabid “other side” when they claim his actions disprove your ideology, or that his actions are your fault? And then consider what you say now in light of what might yet be revealed, in the face of certain uncertainty.

2. Then I would ask that you consider a second hypothetical. Imagine your reaction if a *logistically-similar* shooting took place in 1943, where someone with a brain tumor shot Hitler and a bunch of bystanders, including a nine year old girl, all at point blank range. (Meaning, all the victims were deliberately shot, not the victims of stray gunfire.) And the shooter had written a bunch of anti-Nazi rants. If you imagine such a scenario, would the shooter be a hero in your eyes, even though he had deliberately killed the innocent girl? Would the shooter’s actions prove that Nazism was a correct ideology, because the evil guy who murdered a nine year old girl was anti-Nazi?

3. Last, consider the exact same situation where a shooter deliberately kills Gandhi and a nine year old girl. Does the deliberate murder of the innocent child prove the shooter is wrong, and thus prove that Gandhi was correct in his political work and ideology?

I ask because I would like people to consider the proper de-coupling of your own thoughts and beliefs, and everyone else’s thoughts and beliefs, from the actions of anyone who would deliberately shoot a nine year old girl at point blank range.

Regardless of what we find out someday about how this person ranted, regardless of what political positions he claimed to support, his actions neither prove nor disprove those ideologies. And thus, the claims of those here, trying to staple BADNESS to any ideology based on this shooting, are inherently absurd. Such leaps of illogic are pure foolishness by those who believe the nonsense, and genuine evil by those who know better.

…and exactly why I said…

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

It’s about the escalation. Unstable righties buy into it and want to DO something about what they are told is the wholesale destruction of the very fabric of America. Unstable lefties buy into and become terrified of what the people on the other side are capable of if the attain real power using that rhetoric, and sometimes act out accordingly. Most of us can distinguish between hyperbole and threats, but those in the media have a responsibility to avoid the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that can infect the unstable mind and lead to events like this. I don’t believe Beck MADE this guy violent and unstable, he was already there. But Beck and company create the conditions that make him feel he has to act NOW. That’s what this is all about. I agree that Olbermann and Schultz have to tone it down, too. But when people bring Rachel in, it’s a false equivalency and just proves that the defense is part of the offense for some people.

Paul Westlake said:
Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

Once again, a friend of the shooter stated he is a liberal. Are you saying the right drives the left to violence against the left?

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
1. Assume for a minute that tomorrow, we find out the shooter’s writings and videos and history line up completely with whatever political positions YOU preach. Then ask yourself if you will conclude your ideology and beliefs were wrong, based on this shooter having espoused them? No I wouldn’t because my ideology does NOT condone violence. I would think what I think whenever something like this happens, that it’s the shooters fault and nothing else.

You quoted me partially. (It was a long post, so no big deal.) But the shorter quote loses some context. My point, for any who did not see my whole post, was that deliberately shooting an innocent nine year old girl at point blank range has nothing to do with ANY ideology people are arguing about here. So, using this shooter’s actions as some basis for claiming Republicans are bad, or Liberals are bad, or anything else is, itself, hopelessly flawed logic.

Further, I admit I don’t know your ideology. But I would say that if you support the platforms of either the establishment Democrats or the Republicans, your ideology DOES condone violence. Everything the government does it does by the very threat of violence against those who do not submit to its will. The only political philosophy that departs entirely from this is pure anarchy (not chaos, anarchy), where government does not exist. But supporting either establishment party we have and saying you don’t condone violence is like a bank robber claiming he doesn’t condone violence, all while he points a gun at you and says to hand over all the cash and you won’t get hurt.

As such, the only justifiable government is the minimal government that does nothing more with its force than to protect the life, liberty, and property of every individual, to the best it can with the information it has. So, to truly condone no violence you must be a pure anarchist. Failing that, libertarianism is the only ideology that argues for government’s INHERENT FORCE to be used minimally, and ONLY DEFENSIVELY.

I think I understand why he’s called Dick Durbin, not Richard.

The shooter, Jared Laugher, is a far left liberal whose favourite book is Communist Manifesto and favourite Youtube clip is the burning of the US flag.

Congresswoman Giffords is a centrist and a member of the so-called Blue Dog Coalition of Democrats who supported fiscally conservative, pro-business policies. She has pushed for more troops to guard the nearby US-Mexico border. She also refused to vote for Nancy Pelosi as House Democratic leader. Apparently, she is an opponent of the far left liberals.

Barack Obama – The Chicago Way
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/obama-we-bring-a-gun/
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

The shooter is following Obama’s advice and bring his gun to the fight.

Barack Obama, the most polarizing and divisive President in America history, should be ashamed for his inflammatory irresponsible politcal rhetorics. His Nobel Peace Prize should be revoked for his despicable behaviour.

OldGuy said:
Once again, a friend of the shooter stated he is a liberal. Are you saying the right drives the left to violence against the left?

Doesn’t freaking matter what the friend said. Look at what the shooter himself said. Good grief! This is exactly what I mean by the right wing spin cycle. No matter what, they try to impugn liberals with the basest of motives while exalting themselves as the purest, least partisan, most honest there is. What a load of crap! Conservatives spent decades championing the nativist movement, the John Birch Society, and social darwinism via people like Herbert Spencer, but now that it’s falling out of fashion, they try to pretend they were the original civil rights champions all along, while debasing liberals as inhuman beasts who have just been using civil rights as a tool to oppress the masses. It’s Orwellian untruth and it leads crazy people to do crazy things, right and left.

skponggol said:
The shooter, Jared Laugher, is a far left liberal whose favourite book is Communist Manifesto and favourite Youtube clip is the burning of the US flag.

No, he’s a confused crazy person who puts the Communist Manifesto AND Mein Kampf on his favs list. This is the direct result of the escalation of rhetoric started, perpetuated and pushed to ever-more extremes by the right wing punditocracy and the people who believe every word they say. In other words, YOU!

Paul Westlake

This is what I mean. You use the right wing echo chamber to defend the indefensible while shunnig those outlets that really do show an ability to balance their reporting with actual facts…

except you quote the la times and sf examiner? LOL Yeah both have well established non partisan reputations..

Here is the issue- the fascist left like you are trying to pin this guys actions on the rhetoric of the right to use a 9 year old girl’s death for your political gain. Sickening.

Only there’s a problem: this guy wasnt in the tea party , and isnt a right winger. Im sure he would have just as soon shot Sarah Palin than listen to her.

Paul Westlake said:
No, he’s a confused crazy person who puts the Communist Manifesto AND Mein Kampf on his favs list. This is the direct result of the escalation of rhetoric started, perpetuated and pushed to ever-more extremes by the right wing punditocracy and the people who believe every word they say. In other words, YOU!

The fact that you dont even acknowledge the rhetoric of the left gives you ZERO creditability.

Punditocracy? LOL I hope you know you sound less intelligent for using that word, not more.

Since when do Confederate apologists care about burning the US flag? Those who fly the rebel stars and bars are symbolically burning the American flag every day. And they have the audacity to claim that THEY are the “authentic” Americans while demonizing everyone and everything that doesn’t reflect the world exactly as they want t to be? Then they try to claim that liberals espouse violence, Obama is divisive because bigots don’t like a black President, and Nancy Pelosi is a tyrant who is trying to push her “San Fransisco values” on the rest of America. George Orwell would be in awe of the right wing machine today.

I’m only cleaning this up and reposting because of the mess of broken quotes in the last two exchanges, which will only serve to confuse.

Just_MC said:
1. Assume for a minute that tomorrow, we find out the shooter’s writings and videos and history line up completely with whatever political positions YOU preach. Then ask yourself if you will conclude your ideology and beliefs were wrong, based on this shooter having espoused them?

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
No I wouldn’t because my ideology does NOT condone violence. I would think what I think whenever something like this happens, that it’s the shooters fault and nothing else.

You quoted me partially. (It was a long post, so no big deal.) But the shorter quote loses some context. My point, for any who did not see my whole post, was that deliberately shooting an innocent nine year old girl at point blank range has nothing to do with ANY ideology people are arguing about here. So, using this shooter’s actions as some basis for claiming Republicans are bad, or Liberals are bad, or anything else is, itself, hopelessly flawed logic.

Further, I admit I don’t know your ideology. But I would say that if you support the platforms of either the establishment Democrats or the Republicans, your ideology DOES condone violence. Everything the government does it does by the very threat of violence against those who do not submit to its will. The only political philosophy that departs entirely from this is pure anarchy (not chaos, anarchy), where government does not exist. But supporting either establishment party we have and saying you don’t condone violence is like a bank robber claiming he doesn’t condone violence, all while he points a gun at you and says to hand over all the cash and you won’t get hurt.

As such, the only justifiable government is the minimal government that does nothing more with its force than to protect the life, liberty, and property of every individual, to the best it can with the information it has. So, to truly condone no violence you must be a pure anarchist. Failing that, libertarianism is the only ideology that argues for government’s INHERENT FORCE to be used minimally, and ONLY DEFENSIVELY.

BarneyFranken said:
except you quote the la times and sf examiner? LOL Yeah both have well established non partisan reputations..

Here is the issue- the fascist left like you are trying to pin this guys actions on the rhetoric of the right to use a 9 year old girl’s death for your political gain. Sickening.

Only there’s a problem: this guy wasnt in the tea party , and isnt a right winger. Im sure he would have just as soon shot Sarah Palin than listen to her.

BarneyFranken said:
The fact that you dont even acknowledge the rhetoric of the left gives you ZERO creditability.

Punditocracy? LOL I hope you know you sound less intelligent for using that word, not more.

Oh, you’re “sure.” Well, that’s all the proof the world needs, right?

The echo chamber is working overtime tonight… but you OWN this one, kids. YOUR side is the one that earns a living scaring the crap out of people. YOUR side is the one selling t-shirts to each other with clever slogans designed to dehumanize liberals and assault the very fabric of American democracy. Liberals want to debate and win. You don’t just want to win, you want to annihilate us. THAT’S what makes people like YOU own this. You can stammer and wail all you want. The only people who care about the excuses anymore are the people making the excuses.

OK, back to football.

Nachi said:
Certainly Palin & similar Republiscum bear responsibility. We allowed the Right Wing to inject its poison into the Nation’s bloodstream – and this is a firm result. Repugs exhibit a form of mass insanity. They are but merchants of hatred, ignorance, intolerance, misunderstanding, treachery. Little People who would be best erradicated from our very midst. The more you see of them, the more they display layer after layer of human weakness, indecency, uncivility So here we have yet another Right Wing step down the path to national intellectual & cultural destruction..

WOW. Calling for the “eradication of republicans from our very midst”?

This guy is saying exactly what all liberals are thinking.

Lets exploit this tragedy to try to silence and even eliminate our political opponents.

Paul Westlake said:
Oh, you’re “sure.” Well, that’s all the proof the world needs, right?

You the one who’s making the link to Palin and the right- the burden of proof is on you, you pompous jackass.

Paul Westlake said:

The echo chamber is working overtime tonight… but you OWN this one, kids. YOUR side is the one that earns a living scaring the crap out of people. YOUR side is the one selling t-shirts to each other with clever slogans designed to dehumanize liberals and assault the very fabric of American democracy. Liberals want to debate and win. You don’t just want to win, you want to annihilate us. THAT’S what makes people like YOU own this. You can stammer and wail all you want. The only people who care about the excuses anymore are the people making the excuses.

Dehumanize liberals? Annihilate us? Wow talk about crazy, paranoid rhetoric.

Read your comrade Nachi’s post about eradicating republicans- He makes a fool out of your argument.

There are clearly freaks on both sides, and for you to deny it, makes you a freak yourself.

One important point that has yet to be made:

Say what you will about right wing pundits, but there is no one on the right calling for the silence of their political opponents over this tragedy.

Compare that to Olbermann, Joe Klein, Yglasis and the KOS, plus others crying out for the need to silence their opposition, never mind that there is little evidence that the killer is a right winger.

Wasn’t it Rahm Emmanuel who said, never let a serious crisis go to waste?

That is the mantra of the fascist left.

Never let a tragedy go to waste, right Durbin? As soon as he heard a Democrat was shot in Arizona, his first thoughts were, how can I blame this on the Tea Party? These people could care less about Giffords or the dead. Durbin, Olbermann, Krugman, Klein — these people are nothing more than callow opportunists trying to find an equation where wanting to repeal health care or lower the budget are akin to dangerous rhetoric that incites violence. There are no lower creatures in American political life.

Paul Westlake said:
…because these are excellent points…

…and exactly why I said…

It’s about the escalation. Unstable righties buy into it and want to DO something about what they are told is the wholesale destruction of the very fabric of America. Unstable lefties buy into and become terrified of what the people on the other side are capable of if the attain real power using that rhetoric, and sometimes act out accordingly. Most of us can distinguish between hyperbole and threats, but those in the media have a responsibility to avoid the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that can infect the unstable mind and lead to events like this. I don’t believe Beck MADE this guy violent and unstable, he was already there. But Beck and company create the conditions that make him feel he has to act NOW. That’s what this is all about. I agree that Olbermann and Schultz have to tone it down, too. But when people bring Rachel in, it’s a false equivalency and just proves that the defense is part of the offense for some people.

Paul, it was the liberals who went in a berserk mode. You guys went nuts with the Palin associations. You guys do it all the time and you apparently don’t even know you are doing it.

BarneyFranken said:
One important point that has yet to be made:

Say what you will about right wing pundits, but there is no one on the right calling for the silence of their political opponents over this tragedy.

Compare that to Olbermann, Joe Klein, Yglasis and the KOS, plus others crying out for the need to silence their opposition, never mind that there is little evidence that the killer is a right winger.

Wasn’t it Rahm Emmanuel who said, never let a serious crisis go to waste?

That is the mantra of the fascist left.

You are exactly right.

This is why Obama is in emergency mode trying to get a National Internet ID for everyone: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20027837-501465.html

They are building new data centers to house their snooping and correlation efforts too.

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t freaking matter what the friend said. Look at what the shooter himself said

If you can understand what he was saying, you really need help.

BarneyFranken said:
You the one who’s making the link to Palin and the right- the burden of proof is on you, you pompous jackass.

I’ve been making the link to the extreme rhetoric in right wing media…

Paul Westlake said:
Palin is just one of many public figures on the right who spout violent rhetoric. And Palin is a sock-puppet with no original thought. I wouldn’t pin this on Palin. But she happily adopts the most extreme rhetoric as part of her media act. So she’s part of it, but hardly the root cause. Beck, Limbaugh and company are much more to blame.

…of which Sarah Palin only a part.

BarneyFranken said:
Dehumanize liberals? Annihilate us? Wow talk about crazy, paranoid rhetoric.

Read your comrade Nachi’s post about eradicating republicans- He makes a fool out of your argument.

There are clearly freaks on both sides, and for you to deny it, makes you a freak yourself.

You’re the one who uses rhetoric like “comrade” when describing liberals. But more to the point, it’s the extreme right that spouts slogans like “don’t retreat, reload” and “second amendment remedies.” I agree that Nachi goes too far with those comments. But the right includes “death panels” and comparisons to Hitler’s “final solution” and on and on and on. Most of us know that right wing hyperbole is a product of a lack of factual support for their ideologies. But too many people, including, it seems, a lot of the reactionaries commenting on Mediaite, actually believe there is an all-powerful liberal cabal at work behind the curtain trying to bring about total domination of every individual person’s life in America, probably by the UN, and that only the lies being pumped out by Fox and Limbaugh and so on are the truth. And when they get cornered in their own ill logic, they cry victim and pretend they’re being oppressed by this unseen, all-powerful junta of liberal elites. For instance…

Alz said:
Paul, it was the liberals who went in a berserk mode. You guys went nuts with the Palin associations. You guys do it all the time and you apparently don’t even know you are doing it.

Sure, it’s not being the people who spout rhetoric like “don’t retreat, reload,” or “second amendment remedies,” or non-existent “death panels” as part of a nefarious liberal “final solution,” it’s the people who see that self-serving hysterical paranoia for what it is who are to blame for it’s impact. The people who have been warning the hysterical right to calm down are the ones we should be blaming when a crazy decides that the stakes are high enough to commit violence? Talk about not even knowing what you’re doing. That’s a healthy dose of denial you people have there.

And here’s another one…

BarneyFranken said:
Say what you will about right wing pundits, but there is no one on the right calling for the silence of their political opponents over this tragedy.

By attacking all mainstream media as “lamestream” and liberally biased, the right wing IS trying to silence the press, or at least trying to make it irrelevant. That’s every day. It doesn’t take an event like this. It’s part of the job description for being on the right.

Not letting a crisis go to waste is taken in two ways, constructively and opportunistically. Liberals mean it constructively – let’s learn from this incident. Conservatives mean it opportunistically – let’s give massive contracts to our pals in the defense sector while we fight two wars, one of which would have had a better chance as a covert operation, the other being a complete fraud in itself. And talk about cynicism, that was using the 9/11 attacks for an opportunistic money grab.

There is no example you can come up with to describe duplicity on the left that doesn’t have a much worse equivalent on the right. And it’s because of this that progressives were rising in 2008, and that the conservative backlash has been particularly aggressive this time around. The demographics are shifting. Conservative elites are getting spooked. The rhetoric heats up, some crazies start to take it seriously, doesn’t matter which side because any naive and unstable person can be influenced by the zeitgeist, and this kind of thing starts to happen more and more.

I don’t care that the right will never own up to their role in all this, I just hope they learn from it and start to tone it down. I have never called for conservatives to be “eradicated,” nor have I tried to dehumanize them (though I may have come close with a few individuals around here). But too many conservatives are completely convinced that liberals really are evil to the core and don’t need to be treated like fellow human beings as a result, and taking the national dialog to that extreme forces liberals to be always on the defensive or fight back with equally aggressive rhetoric, if not quite as violent.

Keith Olbermann and Ed Schultz are a response to Fox News and right wing radio, they came after. And their rhetoric is tame by comparison most days. Even so, I would welcome a tone down from both of them. But the total bankruptcy is revealed when the right goes after Maddow, who has been literally begging conservatives to come on her show and conducts the fairest interview you can find on either channel and most of the rest of the TV landscape. But nothing is ever good enough when the stakes have been raised to such a degree that some people believe our nation is literally at risk of destruction, from within and without. As long as that keeps going, these incidents will continue to pile up.

OldGuy said:
If you can understand what he was saying, you really need help.

The whole point is that his writing reveals him to be nuts. But thanks for the inane pop psychology diagnosis, Sigmund.

Paul Westlake said:
I’ve been making the link to the extreme rhetoric in right wing media…

…of which Sarah Palin only a part.

You’re the one who uses rhetoric like “comrade” when describing liberals. But more to the point, it’s the extreme right that spouts slogans like “don’t retreat, reload” and “second amendment remedies.” I agree that Nachi goes too far with those comments. But the right includes “death panels” and comparisons to Hitler’s “final solution” and on and on and on. Most of us know that right wing hyperbole is a product of a lack of factual support for their ideologies. But too many people, including, it seems, a lot of the reactionaries commenting on Mediaite, actually believe there is an all-powerful liberal cabal at work behind the curtain trying to bring about total domination of every individual person’s life in America, probably by the UN, and that only the lies being pumped out by Fox and Limbaugh and so on are the truth. And when they get cornered in their own ill logic, they cry victim and pretend they’re being oppressed by this unseen, all-powerful junta of liberal elites. For instance…

Sure, it’s not being the people who spout rhetoric like “don’t retreat, reload,” or “second amendment remedies,” or non-existent “death panels” as part of a nefarious liberal “final solution,” it’s the people who see that self-serving hysterical paranoia for what it is who are to blame for it’s impact. The people who have been warning the hysterical right to calm down are the ones we should be blaming when a crazy decides that the stakes are high enough to commit violence? Talk about not even knowing what you’re doing. That’s a healthy dose of denial you people have there.

And here’s another one…

By attacking all mainstream media as “lamestream” and liberally biased, the right wing IS trying to silence the press, or at least trying to make it irrelevant. That’s every day. It doesn’t take an event like this. It’s part of the job description for being on the right.

Not letting a crisis go to waste is taken in two ways, constructively and opportunistically. Liberals mean it constructively – let’s learn from this incident. Conservatives mean it opportunistically – let’s give massive contracts to our pals in the defense sector while we fight two wars, one of which would have had a better chance as a covert operation, the other being a complete fraud in itself. And talk about cynicism, that was using the 9/11 attacks for an opportunistic money grab.

There is no example you can come up with to describe duplicity on the left that doesn’t have a much worse equivalent on the right. And it’s because of this that progressives were rising in 2008, and that the conservative backlash has been particularly aggressive this time around. The demographics are shifting. Conservative elites are getting spooked. The rhetoric heats up, some crazies start to take it seriously, doesn’t matter which side because any naive and unstable person can be influenced by the zeitgeist, and this kind of thing starts to happen more and more.

I don’t care that the right will never own up to their role in all this, I just hope they learn from it and start to tone it down. I have never called for conservatives to be “eradicated,” nor have I tried to dehumanize them (though I may have come close with a few individuals around here). But too many conservatives are completely convinced that liberals really are evil to the core and don’t need to be treated like fellow human beings as a result, and taking the national dialog to that extreme forces liberals to be always on the defensive or fight back with equally aggressive rhetoric, if not quite as violent.

Keith Olbermann and Ed Schultz are a response to Fox News and right wing radio, they came after. And their rhetoric is tame by comparison most days. Even so, I would welcome a tone down from both of them. But the total bankruptcy is revealed when the right goes after Maddow, who has been literally begging conservatives to come on her show and conducts the fairest interview you can find on either channel and most of the rest of the TV landscape. But nothing is ever good enough when the stakes have been raised to such a degree that some people believe our nation is literally at risk of destruction, from within and without. As long as that keeps going, these incidents will continue to pile up.

Man, you are dense. There is an INCREDIBLE amount of liberal hate out there that is very personal and FAR exceeds the language on the right.

Just Google Nazi and Bush under images for one example. This is far worse than the war and sports analogies that many people use.

Olbermann and Schultz won;t go away if Fox goes away; they are not a response.

More liberal hate…ignored by the media for years: http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

writer said:
The Fort Hood shooter must have been listening to Palin.

Isn’t it ironic that the Fort Hood shooter was also influenced by extremist rhetoric on the right. It may have been a different brand of right wing rhetoric, but it was right wing none the less. In Afghanistan, the right wing is the Taliban. In Iran, the right wing is the Supreme Council and the Ayatollah. In the horn of Africa, the right wing is the Islamic militant groups. It is almost always the right wing that spouts the most aggressive rhetoric. Rare exceptions include some Central and South American groups, and the Bolsheviks, who started to turn right with their first taste of power, and completed the journey with the rise of Stalin. And even though lots of people like to think of the Nazis as a leftist movement, it was well-known that “socialist” was just a marketing tool that co-opted a populist movement and merged it into a culture war against all things not in conformity with an Aryan Germany dominating the world. But in today’s world, the left is on defense more often than not, and the right uses the most violent rhetoric to keep it that way. So thanks for yet another example of how right wing extremism has the ability to activate the unstable no matter what form it takes.

Paul Westlake said:
Isn’t it ironic that the Fort Hood shooter was also influenced by extremist rhetoric on the right. It may have been a different brand of right wing rhetoric, but it was right wing none the less. In Afghanistan, the right wing is the Taliban. In Iran, the right wing is the Supreme Council and the Ayatollah. In the horn of Africa, the right wing is the Islamic militant groups. It is almost always the right wing that spouts the most aggressive rhetoric. Rare exceptions include some Central and South American groups, and the Bolsheviks, who started to turn right with their first taste of power, and completed the journey with the rise of Stalin. And even though lots of people like to think of the Nazis as a leftist movement, it was well-known that “socialist” was just a marketing tool that co-opted a populist movement and merged it into a culture war against all things not in conformity with an Aryan Germany dominating the world. But in today’s world, the left is on defense more often than not, and the right uses the most violent rhetoric to keep it that way. So thanks for yet another example of how right wing extremism has the ability to activate the unstable no matter what form it takes.

The Right is about Limited Government and Individual Freedom and Liberty. The Taliban, etc (that you mentioned are about central control and limited freedoms; that makes them Left.

Alz said:
There is an INCREDIBLE amount of liberal hate out there that is very personal and FAR exceeds the language on the right.

No, there isn’t. Saying things doesn’t make them so. You want to show me some proof, fine. But the Tea party Express featured a speaker who compared health care reform to “the final solution” and there’s nothing like that on the left. Sharon Angle said losing meant it might be time for “second amendment remedies” and there’s no equivalent on the left. Sure, you can always find yahoos who make signs and write screeds that are ridiculous and venomous, but there is no equivalent public figure on the left who consistently debases conservatives the way Ingraham and Coulter and Savage do to liberals, nobody on the left who consistently raises the specter of total conservative annihilation of all that is holy and true like Beck and Limbaugh do about liberals. And of all people, Alz, you are one of the most consistent in your paranoid rhetoric – liberals are intellectually incapable of thinking in any way other than trying to make all people the same, make all things “equal,” so we all have to wear the same clothes and get paid the same amount of money and live in the same kind of apartment in government projects that are designed to control every aspect of our lives. Sound familiar? Good grief. I know I shouldn’t expect anything different, but so many of you are so completely guilty of the very thing you’re trying to pin on liberals, it’s just demolishing every irony meter in sight.

Alz said:
The Right is about Limited Government and Individual Freedom and Liberty. The Taliban, etc (that you mentioned are about central control and limited freedoms; that makes them Left.

Central control can be right or left, depending on the rest of the system. Limited freedoms is also limited civil rights, which is right. And their brand of theocracy is right wing. They are all right wing. 100%.

Paul Westlake said:
Central control can be right or left, depending on the rest of the system. Limited freedoms is also limited civil rights, which is right. And their brand of theocracy is right wing. They are all right wing. 100%.

No, the right is NOT about central control. It’s about LIMITED GOVERNMENT. Wake up.

You can distinguish the characteristics as you want, but they are all on the Left. At no point on the continuum between Left and Right does the Right magically turn into “central control”. As you move to the Right, there is LESS government and central control. That’s why it is a continuum.

Paul Westlake said:
Isn’t it ironic that the Fort Hood shooter was also influenced by extremist rhetoric on the right. It may have been a different brand of right wing rhetoric, but it was right wing none the less. In Afghanistan, the right wing is the Taliban. In Iran, the right wing is the Supreme Council and the Ayatollah. In the horn of Africa, the right wing is the Islamic militant groups. It is almost always the right wing that spouts the most aggressive rhetoric. Rare exceptions include some Central and South American groups, and the Bolsheviks, who started to turn right with their first taste of power, and completed the journey with the rise of Stalin. And even though lots of people like to think of the Nazis as a leftist movement, it was well-known that “socialist” was just a marketing tool that co-opted a populist movement and merged it into a culture war against all things not in conformity with an Aryan Germany dominating the world. But in today’s world, the left is on defense more often than not, and the right uses the most violent rhetoric to keep it that way. So thanks for yet another example of how right wing extremism has the ability to activate the unstable no matter what form it takes.

You really should read things other than LIBERAL brainwash blogs. You cannot get to the right wing by moving to the far left, no matter how mixed up you are.

The fascism and oppression of the Taliban is the opposite of what right-wing Conservatism seeks……………….small government. Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin were extreme Leftists inflicting their Socialism in the only way Socialism can exist…………by .fascist enforcement. Once a populace awakens from the seduction of Socialism and realize they’ve given up their property and freedom, they must be forced into continued compliance through fascism.

Nope. Fascist dictators are the end result of big government LIBERALISM , and small government rooted in individual liberty is encouraged by RIGHT-wing Conservatives. And violence is only advocated by modern Liberals (Communists) as the only way to FORCE their agenda on an unwilling populace.

Remember, Westlake………….repetition can’t ‘create’ TRUTH. TRUTH just stands there stubbornly ignoring Liberal brainwash.

Paul Westlake said:
…George Orwell would be in awe of the right wing machine today.

I think he would be sickeded by the statism that is pushed by both parties. In particular, the author of _Animal_Farm_ would be sickened by the success of the redistributive statists both in self-described communist/socialist nations as well as their effective takeovers of nations that claim to be something other. You have shown yourself to be a thoughtful commentor, I am curious what you think.

Regards,

MC

This is the narrative that I have seen all over the political forums this weekend even in Lefties Facebook statuses. No one has the crust or courage to directly blame Sarah Palin for the shooting, (except the terminally deranged) but everyone cant resist the opportunity to still try to blame Palin in some way for irresponsible speech. This despite the fact that attack/victory/defeat/assault/obliterate/target/weapon, blow away etc etc ad absurdum are all run of the mill typical metaphors for almost any kind of contest and especially for political fights.

What we will be forced to do now is produce example after example of the same exact thing from the Left, along with pointing out that no one has accused them of irresponsible speech. Case in point Rahm Emanuel who was an unashamed practicioner of hardball politics.

Whats also completely overlooked are the numerous clues in the available data on Loughner that point to as many Leftist influences as Right, nor is the fact there is absolutely no indication he has taken any notice of Palin let alone be influenced into assassination by her.

Lets face it a substantial faction on the Left is obsessed with a woman who they alternately claim is of no importance or influence to this nation to being responsible for every negative trend in this country.

Paul Westlake said:
But the Tea party Express featured a speaker who compared health care reform to “the final solution” and there’s nothing like that on the left.

Oh really, watch this from Robert Reich. About as close as you can get: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7Y0TOBuG4

You guys are gross.

glenn113 said:
No,you’re wrong . It’s only a coincidence that Fox News, Sarah Palin and talk show hosts like Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Joyce Kaufmann and Sean Hannity preach hatred just like Jesus did. And of cource they are true Christians and follow what Jesus said about helping the poor and against violence.So how any of what they spew across the airwaves have anything to do with that. Silly me.

glenn113 said:
No,you’re wrong . It’s only a coincidence that Fox News, Sarah Palin and talk show hosts like Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Joyce Kaufmann and Sean Hannity preach hatred just like Jesus did. And of cource they are true Christians and follow what Jesus said about helping the poor and against violence.So how any of what they spew across the airwaves have anything to do with that. Silly me.

I’m not saying there are no extreme left wingers but not nearly as many on the right. I have yet to see any of them codone violence, ie: Joyce Kaufmann. And Laura Ingram, the phony Christrian that where’s a cross to show people she is a Christman. She is an abarressment to Christrians. Explaining why you disagree on Obamas policies, decisions etc. in one thing. But all she does is make fun of people, call them names, etc. Somehow she must have never read the gospel where Jesus said ‘what you do to the least of my brothers you also do unto to me’. Now she is a beautiful women but she needs to take off the cross and change into a dominatrix outfit with fishnets, spiked heels, etc. Now, I would melt to her feet if she dressed like that.

Here is a short column that all you Fox News lovers should read : http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/oct/04/fox-news-inaccuracy-class-itself/

Just_MC said:
I think he would be sickeded by the statism that is pushed by both parties. In particular, the author of _Animal_Farm_ would be sickened by the success of the redistributive statists both in self-described communist/socialist nations as well as their effective takeovers of nations that claim to be something other. You have shown yourself to be a thoughtful commentor, I am curious what you think.

Regards,

MC

Thank you for the unexpected acknowledgment… especially in this thread! ;-)

I wouldn’t take Animal Farm as an allegory against statism, but against blind faith. The pigs don’t follow a socialist redistributive path, but an oligarchical authoritarianism based on constant conditioning. In fact, I think the author of Animal Farm, a democratic socialist and avowed enemy of communism, would be much more alarmed by the revisionist history practiced in right wing media than he would by those things that you would describe as statist. Orwell wasn’t anti-government, he was anti-authoritarian and anti-charlatan.

PS – Thanks for the constructive debate. ;-)

Davo said:
Remember, Westlake………….repetition can’t ‘create’ TRUTH. TRUTH just stands there stubbornly ignoring Liberal brainwash.

Reality has a well-know liberal bias. And you have a well-know conservative bias, and an addiction to revisionist history and redefining known concepts to suit your self-centered narrative. Talk about pompous! You people think you can redefine fascism as a liberal policy just by saying so over and over again and then accuse people who know the real definition of doing precisely what you’re doing to defend your asinine agenda, and noooobody will notice a thing…

“Nothing to see here as we redefine age-old political concepts and revise history to make conservatives the heroes of civil rights and the champions of the working class. What? It works on Fox News viewers!”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Paul Westlake said:
Thank you for the unexpected acknowledgment… especially in this thread! ;-) I wouldn’t take Animal Farm as an allegory against statism, but against blind faith. The pigs don’t follow a socialist redistributive path, but an oligarchical authoritarianism based on constant conditioning. In fact, I think the author of Animal Farm, a democratic socialist and avowed enemy of communism, would be much more alarmed by the revisionist history practiced in right wing media than he would by those things that you would describe as statist. Orwell wasn’t anti-government, he was anti-authoritarian and anti-charlatan.

I’m lost. Can you define statism and authoritarianism now?

And do you think Animal Farm is pro Socialism or anti Socialism? And would you explain why you think so?

Alz said:
Oh really, watch this from Robert Reich. About as close as you can get: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7Y0TOBuG4

You guys are gross.

I figured that wasn’t all there was to that story. Didn’t get any play in the mainstream media and that was a giveaway that there was more here than meets the eye. Turns out, at least one person remembers this as part of a discussion on how single-payer was the cost-effective and humane alternative but that it just couldn’t gain political traction in this climate, ergo, nobody was being honest…

- http://bluehampshire.com/diary/8480/a-democrat-not-afraid-to-tell-the-truth

And this is a textbook example of the conservative mainstream media bias. It might have served as a good wedge speech to keep the conservative rank and file in a tizzy and launch the liberals into a state of confusion if not for that wrinkle about the single-payer system and how completely accurate that was. Single-payer was banned from the airwaves early in the debate. So instead of picking up the story, which would require a review of the FULL transcript, they just left it alone to float in the blogosphere (and Fox, of course) where it can infect gullible minds and never be questioned.

And Reich is well-known to be a proponent of single-payer, which is why he made a video for the public option during the debate. I imagine you saw it. So the only people that are convinced by this that Democrats really do want death panels after all are the ones who WANT to be convinced.

Just_MC said:
I’m lost. Can you define statism and authoritarianism now?

And do you think Animal Farm is pro Socialism or anti Socialism? And would you explain why you think so?

Statism – the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty.

Authoritarianism – of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.

I think the most common misconceptions are the difference between ‘freedom” and “liberty,” and the definition of individual freedom versus corporate freedom.

Liberty –
1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.

Liberty is freedom without infringing the freedoms of others. Liberty is the state we all exist in when we all have the rights we are naturally entitled to that don’t infringe on the rights of others. Individuals have rights, but commercial enterprises have privileges. What is described as an individual right, is often really a commercial privilege that can be revoked and liquidated to other individuals as we the people, represented by the state, see fit, within certain legal constraints. When many on the right are arguing for individual freedoms, what they’re really espousing are commercial privileges, like the right to conduct business without “interference” from the government. But that government is the proxy for the people and if a majority of the people decide that oil companies should be nationalized, for instance, there’s no legal framework in the constitution, nor any ethical restraint with regard to individual rights, that can prevent that from happening. Only political will keeps the obsolete industries from going out with a whimper. And it has been killing our economy for decades, whether it was union-inspired protectionism of days past, or management-inspired protectionism of today.

As for Animal Farm, no I don’t see that it has much to do with the relative value of any political system, other than the reality that authoritarianism sucks, because no pure form of any system is ever really achieved, other than complete authoritarian corruption. But the larger issues revolve around propaganda, conditioning, self-deception, and the mind’s ability to rationalize self-destructive truths. It is, just as 1984, incredibly relevant to our times, but I think not in the context you imagine. ;-)

Methinks we both got something very different out of that book.

Quick point on Animal Farm: “all animals are equal.” becomes “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others” by the end. I think that makes it clear that the story is more about the dangers of following a cult of personality wherever it leads instead of evaluating their actions along the way. Animal Farm is actually a useful allegory when deflecting those liberals that get angry when other liberals criticize Obama, which happens too often. He’s not the messiah, he’s an error-prone person like the rest of us. But that same principle applies on the right and it would be nice if people got a bit more sensible in that regard on all sides.

Paul Westlake said:
Statism – the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty. Authoritarianism – of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people. I think the most common misconceptions are the difference between ‘freedom” and “liberty,” and the definition of individual freedom versus corporate freedom. Liberty –1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice. Liberty is freedom without infringing the freedoms of others. Liberty is the state we all exist in when we all have the rights we are naturally entitled to that don’t infringe on the rights of others. Individuals have rights, but commercial enterprises have privileges. What is described as an individual right, is often really a commercial privilege that can be revoked and liquidated to other individuals as we the people, represented by the state, see fit, within certain legal constraints. When many on the right are arguing for individual freedoms, what they’re really espousing are commercial privileges, like the right to conduct business without “interference” from the government. But that government is the proxy for the people and if a majority of the people decide that oil companies should be nationalized, for instance, there’s no legal framework in the constitution, nor any ethical restraint with regard to individual rights, that can prevent that from happening. Only political will keeps the obsolete industries from going out with a whimper. And it has been killing our economy for decades, whether it was union-inspired protectionism of days past, or management-inspired protectionism of today. As for Animal Farm, no I don’t see that it has much to do with the relative value of any political system, other than the reality that authoritarianism sucks, because no pure form of any system is ever really achieved, other than complete authoritarian corruption. But the larger issues revolve around propaganda, conditioning, self-deception, and the mind’s ability to rationalize self-destructive truths. It is, just as 1984, incredibly relevant to our times, but I think not in the context you imagine. ;-) Methinks we both got something very different out of that book.

Are commercial enterprises not the ventures of people? IF I start an oil company, or ANY company, are you okay with a voite of 51% of the people simply seizing it? How about if 51% of the people vote to rape your sister, is that okay?

Life, liberty, AND property are the domain of the individual. At least when an “honest” crook steals them, he puts a gun in your face and takes it. When the state does the thing based on 51%, it’s pretty galling that they have the nerve to do so claiming the “common good.”

I appreciate your candor but have to say, if I understand your position, you simply believe that might makes right.

Paul Westlake said:
This is YOUR fault.

I am extremely disappointed that you would make such a generalization. I thought you more wise than that.

Just_MC said:
Are commercial enterprises not the ventures of people?

Yes, but I said within certain legal constraints. I didn’t mean to imply that a seizure could be arbitrary. It can’t. But I took that extreme example to illustrate the validity of the less extreme examples of regulation that are often cited as infringements on rights. They aren’t because commercial enterprises don’t have rights, even though the people who own them do. That’s why eminent domain is actually codified in the constitution. The Founders envisioned that the collective will of the people would always be more powerful than any single individual or any individual enterprise, but that where the people’s will is exerted in defiance of the will of the individual, just compensation must be awarded: “…nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.” ~ Amendment V

Just_MC said:
Life, liberty, AND property are the domain of the individual. At least when an “honest” crook steals them, he puts a gun in your face and takes it. When the state does the thing based on 51%, it’s pretty galling that they have the nerve to do so claiming the “common good.”

I appreciate your candor but have to say, if I understand your position, you simply believe that might makes right.

Not quite, but majority does rule. And if the majority determines that it makes sense to dismantle someone’s nuclear power plant and replace it with a new breakthrough green technology, all we have to do is compensate the owner and it’s done. And actually, the Kelo v. New London case was roundly criticized by liberals because it went even further than the constitution allows by transferring private property to another private owner, not for public use. And conservatives generally defended the decision as good for business. So this isn’t as pat as you may think.

I’m not in favor of total government control, but I’m also not in favor of total corporate freedom. Individual citizens like you and me have a stake in a better America. Corporations that derive profits and do business all over the world, have no such incentives. And in fact, they have managed to lobby for incentives to do as little for America as possible. So, while I appreciate your sentiment in general, and I really do – I don’t want to live in an authoritarian tyranny any more than you do – I don’t perceive the very rare exertion of the people’s will with regard to regulation and anti-trust as an equivalent danger to an unfettered commercial sector with global aspirations. I find it kind of mystifying that the people who are so concerned about a one-world government, aren’t equally concerned about a one-world corporate dictatorship. I think that’s much more of a possibility than the notion that the liberals will suddenly get organized enough – for once in their motley history – and institute any form of dictatorship anywhere. As Will Rogers said, “I belong to no organized party, I’m a Democrat.” ;-)

pyrope said:
I am extremely disappointed that you would make such a generalization. I thought you more wise than that.

My opening salvo was aimed mostly at the comments that had come before in this thread. I obviously didn’t back down, but I did clarify more as my anger subsided. ;-)

notsofast said:
“My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!” — eerie Daily Kos hit piece on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before assassination attempt; repeated use of word “dead” in relation to Giffords just 48 hours before she and a dozen others were fired upon

Do some research instead of just copying and pasting something you know nothing about. I read this persons diary. It wasn’t a ‘hit piece’ as you seem to want people to believe. The guy was a campaigner for Gifford & was angry that Gifford did not vote for Pelosi like he thought she would. Yes, his choice of words were out of line, but they were not said as a threat. If you read his complete entry/diary, you’d see it was his not very bright way of saying he was finished with supporting Ms Gifford.
You’d also see that he has since posted his remorse for his choice of words.

Paul Westlake said:
Talk about pompous! You people think you can redefine fascism as a liberal policy just by saying so over and over again and then accuse people who know the real definition of doing precisely what you’re doing to defend your asinine agenda, and noooobody will notice a thing…

“Nothing to see here as we redefine age-old political concepts and revise history to make conservatives the heroes of civil rights and the champions of the working class. What? It works on Fox News viewers!”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Just keep whistling past the graveyard if you can’t make an argument. Ya see, the problem with your argument is that it lacks an argument. You simply keep making your statement as if it automatically becomes fact with enough “repetition” when reality dictates it to be ludicrous.

As I and others here have stated numerous times…………….and you’ve run from it numerous times…………..big government is a modern LIBERAL goal. Small government is the Conservative RIGHT-Wing goal. Fascism is big government at it’s worst. A 3-year-old can do the math on that, but since you don’t like it, you abandon both shame and reason to keep on chanting unsupported nonsense. In so doing, you support the observation that LIBERALISM is just a form of mental disorder.

I charge that the reason you refuse to even attempt to substantiate your absurdity, is that you know being wrong indicts the entire LIBERAL agenda to grow big goverment. And you would rather see our nation fall to fascist tyranny than to admit LIBERALISM is doomed to failure. (pssst………that “mental disorder thingie….)

Now, Westlake, if you truly think you have a point, then support it. Explain how extreme LEFTist fascism magically becomes RIGHT-wing. If you cannot, then admit that trying to tag Conservatives with extreme LEFTISM is just Liberal brainwash found in Lib blogs and Socialist indoctrination programs for the purpose of hiding truth you find too ugly to face.

Davo said:
As I and others here have stated numerous times

Yes, repeating lies over and over and over and over and over and over and hoping, some day, you can condition a person like me to just accept your lies as truth. But no, sad sack. You are a liar. And that’s all there is to know about you.

Davo said:
…big government is a modern LIBERAL goal.

Efficient and effective government is a liberal goal. Small government is exactly what conservative an the meat puppets in Congress have failed to do every time they’ve been in power. Bush added nearly a million bodies to the federal payroll.

Davo said:
I charge that the reason you refuse to even attempt to substantiate your absurdity, is that you know being wrong indicts the entire LIBERAL agenda to grow big goverment.

You charge? LOL

Dude, you couldn’t charge a battery! And you haven’t “substantiated a single claim you have made, not one, meaning I have already given an infinite number of examples more than you. And I’m correct. You are a liar. I tell truth and support my assertions with verifiable facts. You offer a primal scream and call it wisdom. Like this…

Davo said:
Explain how extreme LEFTist fascism magically becomes RIGHT-wing.

Fascism doesn’t “become” right wing, it IS right wing. It starts and finishes as right wing. It has always been right wing. Long before your parents made the mistake of bringing your sorry ass into the world, fascism was well-known as a right wing policy. But then Davo was born and everybody decided to go along with what HE said!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You got any more dumbass statements or are you done for the day?

Here’s the “ugly” truth – your side represents oppression, destitution and murder. Always! And we have all three example in just one Republican Presidency…

Oppression: Illegal wiretaps
Destitution: 2008 GNP drop – first time since 1949
Murder: Iraq

When you can find a list like that among American liberals, let me know. Jackass!

Paul Westlake said:
Yes, repeating lies over and over and over and over and over and over and hoping, some day, you can condition a person like me to just accept your lies as truth. But no, sad sack. You are a liar. And that’s all there is to know about you.

There ya go again. No answer to how ‘big government’ magically becomes a “right-wing” product in your mind. Fake some intellect……………at least PRETEND to explain your conclusion instead of simply repeating the absurd. Like I said, you already know the truth…………..but as a LIBERAL, you just can’t face it.

And Westlake, no one here cares to “condition a person like you.” Since you repeat illogical nonsense like a broken toy robot, clearly, that’s already been done a long time ago.

Davo said:
There ya go again. No answer to how ‘big government’ magically becomes a “right-wing” product in your mind. Fake some intellect……………at least PRETEND to explain your conclusion instead of simply repeating the absurd.

You can’t provide a single shred of evidence to support your absurd claims but DEMAND that I do what you have not been able to do once. Talk about faking intellect! You are a first class idiot, and a second class sophist.

Fascism has ALWAYS been defined as right wing…

“…a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. ”

Learn the actual definitions of words. There are many systems that wind up with an authoritarian leadership, but fascism is the one “emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.” Trying to pin fascism on liberals is just one front in the multi-pronged effort to redefine conservatives as the original champions of civil rights and the poor working class. The same conservatives who fought against every workplace advance ever made by the working class, the same conservatives who fought against civil rights, started a war over the abolition of slavery and tried to prevent America from even being founded. But now that the great Davo has arrived, all that is going to be rewritten with a few clever insults.

You are so completely out of your depth it’s actually becoming funny. You can keep displaying your desperation all you like. But that’s all it is. Desperation and grasping at straws. You got nothing, strawman.

Paul Westlake said:
“…a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. ”

Now, maybe you’re getting somewhere. Along with your Leftist deflective “definition,” let’s also take a look at Merriam-Webster’s definition. Pay particular attention to words and phrases I’ve capitalized:

“1. : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) THAT EXALTS NATION AND OFTEN RACE ABOVE THE INDIVIDUAL l and that stands for a CENTRALIZED AUTOCRATIC GOVERNMANT headed by a dictatorial leader, severe ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL REGIMENTATION, and FORCIBLE SUPPRESSION OF OPPOSITION.

So, Westlake, are you gonna try to say again that this is a Conservative tactic? Liberals today follow EXACTLY the dictionary definition in forcing non-white racial preference, confiscation of property and liberty rendering government superior to the individual, and attempting to forcibly silence political opposition as demanded by Liberals in this very thread.

It’s OK, Paul (may I call you “Paul?” It sounds soooo endearing). I understand. Your party is destitute after a sunami of repudiation last November, and you’re afraid Democrat cover has been blown and thrown. It has. But you’ll get over it. America is still a great nation where freedom has produced the best system the world has ever seen, despite fascists on the Left trying to bring about “change” they can believe in. We Conservative are determined to restore a “terrible reign of freedom” against the Liberal people’s will. It’s why America was founded.

Someone read this to Payl Westlake:

From Retired Geek From Virginia wrote:

President Barack Obama has a long History of inciting violence, why should anyone be surprised when violence occurs during his Administration?

One of Barack Obama’s tasks at ACORN, where he worked with Madeline Talbott, was teaching community activists how to use “direct action” and be more forceful in demanding change.

The “in your face” style preached by Barack Obama was used by activists to stage sit-ins and demonstrations at banks to garner publicity and support for more bank loans for (sometimes unqualified) poor people.

ACORN Tactics included picketing at the homes of bank executives and calling them racists for not lending to the poor.

“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.”
Barack Obama
September 18, 2008

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”
Sen. Barack Obama
Radnor Middle School in Wayne, Pa., Saturday, June 14, 2008. (AP)

“A Republican majority in Congress would mean “hand-to-hand combat” on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy,”
President Barack Obama, October 6, 2010

“We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us.”
President Barack Obama to Latinos, October 2010

“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
President Barack Obama March 2010

“We talk to these folks… so I know whose *** to kick.“
President Barack Obama
June 2010

“Punish your enemies”
President Barack Obama
October 26, 2010

“I’m itching for a fight”
President Barack Obama
December 7, 2010

“It’s time to Fight for it.”
President Barack Obama
October 19, 2010

Paul Westlake said:
In Afghanistan, the right wing is the Taliban. In Iran, the right wing is the Supreme Council and the Ayatollah. In the horn of Africa, the right wing is the Islamic militant groups.

You are insane!

Paul Westlake said:
Fascism has ALWAYS been defined as right wing…

Fascism is LEFT wing.

Read up on Fascism and Socialism. They are very close to each other. In the 1930′s, they were rivals, not opposites or very different. In the German election of 1933, the Communist Party was ordered by its leaders to vote for the Nazis — with the explanation that they could later fight the Nazis for power, but first they had to help destroy their common enemy: capitalism and its parliamentary form of government. Maybe another way to say it is that Fascism and Socialism both are opposed to Democratic capitalism based on a moral foundation (Western Civilization). So update your definitions.

Progressives were enamored with Fascism. The left wing ideologies (Fascism, Liberalism, Modern Liberalism, Progressivism, Communsim, Socialism and Marxism) are ALL cousins.

Conservatism, Classical Liberalism, Libertarianism, etc. are right wing and the right wing is about individual responsibility, freedom and LIMITED government (no dictators).

The left wing ideologies are against the individual and they insist (by force) the interest of the government over the individual – all with central control by elites. Progessives were enamored with Fascism until Hitler’s atrocities came out.

Conservatism isn’t perfect and some Republicans have abandoned Conservative principles, but it’s a heck of a lot better than anything left wing where people suffer and want to escape it.

Our relative Conservative society/culture is why people have wanted to come here over the decades and other country’s relative Liberalism is why people try to escape those places. Fences are used to keep illegals from coming into the US; fences, etc. are used to keep citizens of left wing countries from escaping their own countries!

Read up on Fascism. The background and who supported it are quite a bit different than how the media and the left wing portrays it. Look up Margaret Sanger, who founded Planned Parenthood. She was a Progressive and she was a Eugenicist. The liberals of the day and the Nazi’s had much in common – and NONE of it was (or is) Right Wing.

Patrick Henry said:
You are insane!

I’ll put my psychological profile against anyone here, including you, PH. And talk about disappointing. Just “you are insane” huh? And how well do the right wingers react to comments like that around here? Not too well, do they. Funny how you expect to be treated with a level of respect you refuse to reciprocate. Funny… that.

Alz said:
Fascism is LEFT wing.

NO, it ISN’T! And I didn’t learn about fascism from the media. I learned about it starting in 7th grade, and then I continued to learn about it throughout high school and college. I have read about it, watched movies about it, d9one research on it, written college papers including it, deconstructed political systems and compared them to it, and all the many attendant disciplines that come with scholarly research on any subject. You read WND an Redstate and think you’re educated enough to expound on the meanings of words you don’t know the meaning of. You can say it a millions times, million times and billion times, and it will NEVER be true. And your comment makes it clear that you are uneducated in this regard. Go back to school, then spout off. Right now, not even being able to distinguish between generic authoritarianism and the specific brand of authoritarianism that fascism represents, you just prove your ignorance more and more. You should quit while you’re behind… you ain’t never catching up!

Paul Westlake said:
I didn’t learn about fascism from the media. I learned about it starting in 7th grade, and then I continued to learn about it throughout high school and college.

If you hadn’t “learned” about fascism from such bastions of Liberal indoctrination, you might have been able to understand the mainstream definition of the term I provided from Merriam Webster. Here, I’ll give you another chance to ignore it……………..

“1. : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) THAT EXALTS NATION AND OFTEN RACE ABOVE THE INDIVIDUAL l and that stands for a CENTRALIZED AUTOCRATIC GOVERNMANT headed by a dictatorial leader, severe ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL REGIMENTATION, and FORCIBLE SUPPRESSION OF OPPOSITION.

So, Westlake, I ask again. Are you gonna try to say again that these are Conservative values? Liberals today follow EXACTLY this dictionary definition in forcing non-white racial preference, confiscation of property and liberty rendering government superior to the individual, and attempting to forcibly silence political opposition as demanded by Liberals everywhere, including this site..

Davo said:
So, Westlake, I ask again. Are you gonna try to say again that these are Conservative values?

The definition of fascism includes the definitions within other types of authoritarianism – i.e., single-party autocracy with quasi-free market economy describes China. Single-party dictatorship with state-controlled economy describes Cuba. The two key elements that distinguish fascism from other forms of authoritarianism are aggression and race. Fascism rejects peace and aggressively seeks more territory for the purification of the world in its own image, which is where the racism enters. Fascists believe they are part of a superior race that is entitled to rule the world. If anyone in America fits that description right now, it’s conservative reactionaries who want to roll back the civil rights amendments. The fact that you think anything can fit so neatly into the definitions provided by Webster is just another CONCLUSIVE PROOF of you total ignorance. For instance…

“Fascism, which was not afraid to call itself reactionary… does not hesitate to call itself illiberal and anti-liberal.”
~ Benito Mussolini

Since you obviously don’t know anything about history, I should tell you that Benito Mussolini is widely recognized as the father of fascism. You might want to look him up. And while you’re at it, you might want to note that in 1933, when FDR was in transition to take office for the first time, there were calls from many quarters to look toward Mussolini’s fascism for solutions to many of America’s problems. YOU should be thankful that a liberal President ignored the calls from America’s reactionary wing and instead, implemented progressive policies that actually raised America out of the debris of the Great Depression, and allowed us to face down fascism when our number was called on December 7, 1941.

And you can’t just let well enough alone can you? Let’s break down your egocentric, self-serving, utterly paranoid soliloquy shall we…

Davo said:
If you hadn’t “learned” about fascism from such bastions of Liberal indoctrination, you might have been able to understand the mainstream definition of the term I provided from Merriam Webster.

So, ALL education is part of the vast liberal conspiracy to embarrass conservatives and institute a one-world authoritarian government? This is what Colbert means by reality having a “well-known liberal bias.” If you can’t get an education ANYWHERE without being indoctrinated and brainwashed by the all-powerful liberal cabal of epic global proportions, where did YOU learn how to read? Must have been home-schooled, eh? That makes sense, since you obviously have no social skills to compliment your lack of education. But that’s really only just a taste of the neurosis lurking in your comment…

Davo said:
Liberals today follow EXACTLY this dictionary definition in forcing non-white racial preference

THERE it is! You’re a RACIST! You’re a racist pig and you hate non-whites SOOO much that you’re desperate to redefine the very language to lump anyone who believes they deserve to be treated as equals in the same category, and then lump that category in with Stalin and Hitler. You are so totally obvious about your clumsy attempts to defend your own self-centered and totally bigoted ideology that you grasp at any straw you think you can use to mainstream your perverted logic. Affirmative action, in Davo’s mind, was designed to hurt Davo, and nothing else. Yes, that’s right. You’re not paranoid, everyone really is out to get you… moron!

Davo said:
confiscation of property and liberty rendering government superior to the individual

Kelo v. New London. Conservatives stole private property form liberals and handed it to other conservatives. And the SCOTUS upheld it, in clear violation of the constitution and the very principle you raised in that preposterous statement. If ANYONE is in favor of rendering government and commercial interests superior to the individual, it’s CONSERVATIVES, you idiot! We have warrantless wiretaps and secret renditions and you’re bent out of shape about affirmative action and health care reform? What a joke!

Davo said:
attempting to forcibly silence political opposition as demanded by Liberals everywhere, including this site..

Nobody tries to silence opposition more than conservatives – right wing TV and radio parrots the “liberal media bias” claim all day, every day. THAT is designed to render the press so discredited as to be ignored, which is just as good as silencing. YOU and the people you support ARE those people. AND, when it comes to this site, conservatives like you are MUCH more likely to finish a comment with something like “…so STFU POS!” But it’s no surprise that an ignorant, anti-social, racist pig like you would also exhibit the most obvious forms of hypocrisy. And on top of that, who gives a crap what ANYONE says in the comment section on this site. We don’t have an audience. We don’t get Nielsen ratings. Nobody else cares what we think, including us!

You’re a bigot. That’s all you are. Nothing else matters. You’re a bigot and all you care about is your bigotry. Bigot. Bigot. Bigot. From now on, whenever I see a comment from you in a thread I’m engaging, you can expect the word “bigot” to figure prominently in any reference to you. You’re pathetic. And the falsehoods and paranoid delusions you peddle contribute to the climate that led to the shooting on Saturday. You and your heroes ARE the problem in America. Right now, everyone is indulging their false equivalencies. But the right wing cannot help itself and will be escalating the rhetoric faster than you can blink. People will eventually stop pretending the left is equally bad in the current climate and pin the blame where it belongs – on the paranoid bigots on the right. And that includes you!

I’m sure you forgot this already so I’ll repeat…

“Fascism, which was not afraid to call itself reactionary… does not hesitate to call itself illiberal and anti-liberal.”
~ Benito Mussolini

You are either one of the most ignorant people on Earth, or a paid shill who just spouts whatever keeps the fight going. Either way, you have always been a waste of time. And I won’t be wasting my time on you in this thread any longer. Say what you will for as many posts as you like. Anyone with half a brain can see who is telling truth and who is peddling lies. I walk away from this thread with full confidence in an independent arbiter’s judgment of this debate.

Paul Westlake said:
You’re a bigot. That’s all you are. Nothing else matters. You’re a bigot and all you care about is your bigotry. Bigot. Bigot. Bigot.

Oh, now you’ve gone and done it. You “bigotted” me.” Horrors.

Nevertheless, thank for for providing that quote by Mussolini. We’ll use it to clarify my point after all your attempts to confound and confuse this rather simple dispute.

“Fascism, which was not afraid to call itself reactionary… does not hesitate to call itself illiberal and anti-liberal.”
~ Benito Mussolini

Since you’re such a self-acclaimed and self-congratulating “expert” on history, you must surely know that the terminology between the Left and Right changed at the end of WWII. Prior to that, those who touted big government over the rights of the individual proudly called themselves “Socialists.” They believed that the individual was subservient to the many, and should be willing to sacrifice anything and/or everything for the good of the masses. The believed in big government and redistribution of wealth. In fact, late 19th Century Socialists in Germany called themselves “Progressives” as they promoted the idea of progressive confiscation of property from individuals depending upon the amount of property that individual amassed (sound familiar?).

Their opponents were called “Liberals” as they believed that individual liberty and private property were superior to the will of the masses. The same debate went on then as now, albeit with different names for the two sides…………………”Socialists” on the Left, and “Liberals” on the Right.

At the end of WWII when the inevitable results of “Socialism” became tragically apparent due to the evil of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini, Left Wing Socialists simply hijacked the term “Liberal” from the Right Wing Conservatives in order to continue their agenda in the cover of darkness generated by confusion……………..just as they do today. Nonetheless, today we make a distinction between “classic liberalism” and “modern liberalism” to shed light on that darkness.

So, as any astute champion of historical accuracy would know, fascist Mussolini was distinguishing his Left Wing big government Socialism from his opponents………….small government “Right Wing Conservatives” known at the time as classic “liberals.”

In your case, I agree this has been a waste of time. Talking to you reminds me of an old saying, “Never try to teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and annoys the pig.” But I offer this clarification for the benefit of any others unfortunate enough to still be reading this thread, that they might avoid the traps of anti-American Leftists operating to undermine America’s foundation in Right Wing Conservative values of private property, small government, and individual liberty.

Paul Westlake said:
Doesn’t matter who’s “team” he was on. Liberals don’t put crosshairs on their opponents faces. The escalation is owned by the right. 100%!

Is it?

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=495201

Bullseyes are not crosshairs. Our language and political discourse is rife with military language…

“An A-bomb from A-Rod”
“A canon for an arm”
“He threw a bullet pass”

And target is a word used in a host of ways, from fundraising targets, to target lists for improvement. Both the DNC and RNC have districts they’re targeting for takeover every election cycle. Using the bullseyes was a bad idea in light of what it turned into on Palin’s facebook page, but it was a natural extension of the language. However, the point is still valid – it shouldn’t have been done then and shouldn’t be done now.

But tweeting a link to a map covered in crosshairs, a much more menacing image than a bullseye, with the phrase “don’t retreat, reload” is no mistake or natural extension of the language. That being said, I don’t believe and I’m not saying Palin was actually advocating violence. What she’s done is finally come to the natural limit of the gun-toting, wolf hunting, elk shooting, Annie Oakley image she’s been cultivating since John McCain made the biggest mistake of his life. It had much more to do with staying in favor with the pro-gun crowd than suggesting people start shooting elected officials, but it was always playing with fire the way she operated – fast and loose and with little regard for facts or consequences. Palin created the conditions for her own guilt by association and only reinforces those conditions every day that passes without a sincere apology for having inadvertently presaged the attack on Gifford. That’s all it takes for forgiveness in America – not much at all… “Hey, we didn’t mean it and we’re devastated at the association between what we were trying to accomplish politically and what happened last Saturday. I’m sorry and I hope we can all learn from this.” But she can’t bring herself to say even that much. And everyone defending her hasn’t even considered that concept in the slightest. And that’s disturbing. It’s a rare conservative these days that just says “my bad” without a thousand excuses, false equivalencies and a desperate struggle to maintain an illusional moral high ground. Very rare indeed.