If they have any sense at all, growers will increase prices from $35 to $36, rather than $35.15. Most buyers won’t flinch at a $1 increase, they’re used to increases being $5 at a time. Just like when you go to dinner at a chain restaurant, and find that a beer cost $4.93. Just charge me the $5 and get it over with. You think the 7 cents I’m “saving” is going to make me choose ESPN Zone over Dave and Buster’s? You really don’t understand your customers. 

Does this mean that most of our fresh Christmas trees will come from China now?

Interestingly, in Germany, there is something of a tradition in rounding to the closest base unit. So, your bill is €9,90 and you give the cashier €10,00, you get no change.

How can we have a Christmas Tree tax? FIRST AMENDMENT!!!! They can’t even SAY Christmas!

WINTER SOLSTICE TREE TAX NOW!!!!

I’ve got a bunch of old 1 pfennig coins that say otherwise.

Let me be the first to call Charlie Brown a RINO.

It’s not a tax because Obama only taxes rich people. Everybody knows middle income and poor folks don’t buy Christmas trees.

Good one.

Right. “Something of a tradition” means it happens invariably. Great reading skills there, Paulie.

Many states already tax christmas trees , no big deal

“You will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime.”

http://tinyurl.com/7ahy7yl

I guess that isn’t a lie because 15 cents is not “one single dime”.

How many people did he piss off for 2mil?

“GRINCHED BY THE GOVERNMENT”

Here we was thinking the Fux gNOpig propaganda network reports FACTS not unsubstantiated claims.

Where is Billdo and Crapputo when you need them!

THAT Fux statement is missing a question mark.

Oh yay, government fascism is now sticking its nose into Christmas.

So here are the facts on this:

- The Industry Association National Christmas Tree Association requested the program.

- This is a USDA Agricultural Marketing Service program designed to promote Agricultural Products (Like “Got Milk” program)

- The “tax” is less than 1% of the first tier wholesale cost of trees ($15).

- The Industry is concerned that the sale of Artificial Trees – which typically last about six years – is quickly putting their industry in jeopardy. 

- 85% of all artificial trees are produced in China whereas 99% of all live trees are grown in the US.

- It take over seven years to produce a tree, if the industry continues to collapse there will be oversupply which will cause the market to be oversupplied resulting in pricing collapse driving the industry down and putting some of the smaller suppliers out-of-business.

- The is ia $495 million a year business.

 - The voluntary programs have worked in the past but the economy has made funding future programs nearly impossible for the Industry Association

- Expected revenue of $2 million will be used to promote the industry and compete with artificial trees which benefit from promotions for the entire quarter v. tree purchases which are generally made in the last 3 weeks before the holiday.

There is extensive information in the Federal Register on the exact plans for the program, the oversight by the industry and the request for an industry consensus to continue the program after a 3 year trial.

BOTTOM LINE – This is a pro-business program requested by the industry association to promote US businesses producing live goods over Chinese manufacturers producing fake trees. It was made over 3 years ago, under the Bush administration, and was just approved this year.

From the Federal Register: Vo. 76, No 216

According to additional data supplied by the Task Force, the market share of fresh Christmas trees in the U.S. from 1965 to 2008 has declined by 6 percent. In comparison, the market share of artificial trees has increased 655 percent from 1965 to 2008.

The fresh cut Christmas tree industry competes directly with the artificial Christmas tree industry. Artificial Christmas tree companies advertise heavily throughout the fall and Christmas seasons. According to data supplied by the proponents artificial tree purchases have increased from 9.8 million in 2003 to 17.4 million in 2007

According to the proponent data, sales of fresh cut Christmas trees decreased by 15 million trees from 37 million trees sold in 1991 down to 22 million trees sold in 2002. The industry saw an increase in sales in 2003 through 2007 when the industry conducted a voluntary marketing campaign which was lead by a small group of producers and retailers. This voluntary marketing campaign saw sales rebound by 9 million trees—from 22 million trees sold in 2002 to 31 million trees sold in 2007. Even with the strong sales response to the marketing efforts, the voluntary marketing program suffered from a lack of funding. 

The Christmas tree industry has tried  three different times to conduct promotional programs based on voluntary contributions. Each time, after about three years, the revenue declined to a point where the programs were ineffective. The decline in revenue is attributable to the voluntary nature of these programs. Therefore, the proponents have determined that they need a mechanism that would be sustainable over time. They believe that a national Christmas tree research and promotion program would accomplish this goal.Producers and importers who cut and sell or imported less than 500 Christmas trees annually will be exempt from the assessment. Organic producers and importers would also be exempt from assessments. The number of entities assessed under the program will be approximately 3,263. Estimated revenue is expected to be approximately $2 million of which 10 percent is expected from imported product and 90 percent from domestic product.

Promoting American farmers over Chinese manufacturing… hmmm. Who’s side are you on again?

you mean when the baby jesus came down from heaven and gave gift to all of the good little boys and girls–except for the jews and muslims?
you mean where the prince of peace steals the pagan holiday of winter soltice and joins satan’s claws to sale a bunch of crap  and fill our trash heap with cheap paper and empty boxes?

or is it where god rapes his underage mother and then becomes her bastard son?

i get confused just which christmas we are talking about–especially since those who are most worried about –are usually the least willing to live by the teachings of Jesus..
oh well–it is all bullshit any way right?

The side of free people being able to choose for themselves. You can endorse fascism if you want, but I just have better principles than that.

Not any reasonable people.

Of the over 60 million households with Chinese fake trees. NONE

Of the people who want to be able to buy real trees. Also NONE.

Total households with real trees about 24 million, average cost per household ZERO. 

The program is run by the Christmas Tree Association as a promotional project under the Agricultural Promotion group. This “tax” is less than the cost of 4 ounces of gasoline. 

Are you an American or do you want the Chinese to win the war on fresh trees?

Really, can’t they – Why don’t you read the Federal Register for yourself. 

You have all the time in the world to make snarky remarks and not a moment of time to read the facts.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-11-08/pdf/2011-28798.pdf

The operative word here is increase. 

Pablo are you paying more taxes as a percentage of your income this year than you were in 2009?

“This is a pro-business program requested by the industry association to promote US businesses producing live goods over Chinese manufacturers producing fake trees. It was made over 3 years ago, under the Bush administration, and was just approved this year.”

No, it’s anti-business, pro-fascism, and xenophobic.

The market has spoken and we want artificial trees. Adapt or die.

Since when did the AG dept. get the power to Tax?  All taxes originate with House Of Representatives.  They are the only ones that constitutional authority to tax.

This ability is authorized by the US Congress in the Federal Agriculture Improvement and Reform Act of 1996.

The Bill was sponsored by the US Rep Pat Roberts now US Senator – and yes a REPUBLICAN.

Other Sponsors included John Boehner, Saxby Chambliss and 13 other US House of Rep REPUBLICANS.

The bill passed both House and Senate with majority controls held by REPUBLICANS.

Clean enough for you?

From the Federal Register Vol 76, No 216:

The Order is authorized under the 1996 Act which authorizes USDA to establish agricultural commodity research and promotion orders which may include a combination of promotion, research, industry information, and consumer information activities funded by mandatory assessments. These programs are designed to maintain and expand markets and uses for agricultural commodities. As defined under section 513(1)(D) of the 1996 Act, agricultural commodities include fresh cut Christmas trees. The Order will provide for the development and financing of a coordinated program of research, promotion, and information for Christmas trees. 

The 1996 Act provides for a number of optional provisions that allow the tailoring of orders for different commodities. Section 516 of the 1996 Act provides permissive terms for orders, and other sections provide for alternatives. For example, section 514 of the 1996 Act provides for orders applicable to (1) Producers, (2) first handlers and others in the marketing chain as appropriate, and (3) importers (if imports are subject to assessments). Section 516 states that an order may include an exemption of de minimis quantities of an agricultural commodity; different payment and reporting schedules; coverage of research, promotion, and information activities to expand, improve, or make more efficient the marketing or use of an agricultural commodity in both domestic and foreign markets; provision for reserve funds; provision for credits for generic and branded activities; and assessment of imports. 

In addition, section 518 of the 1996 Act provides for referenda to ascertain approval of an order to be conducted either prior to its going into effect or within three years after assessments first begin under the order. An order also may provide for its approval in a referendum based upon different voting patterns. Section 515 provides for establishment of a board or council from among producers, first handlers and others in the marketing chain as appropriate, and importers, if imports are subject to assessment.

Fresh harvested Christmas trees are Made in America.$$$0.15 federal tax
Artificial Christmas trees are Made in China . 0.00 federal tax

This shows Gross favoritism of Obama’s communist buds!
This is a reverse tariff on American products imposed by the US government!
More American job losses, at Christmas time!

More disappointed children!

Obama is good at one thing! He knows how to distribute misery!
 

That money goes to the Industry to promote US Christmas trees, US businesses and US jobs.

Who’s side are you on again?

Tell that to the Farmers who are trying to promote their businesses. That’s why these programs exist.

Adapt? How do you adapt a live tree?

It does not matter that this is a small tax, or you see this as “pro-business” program. It is not the role of the federal government to market products in the private sector. If the tree growers wish to market themselves than they should do so. It is not the role of government to step in. Even if the tree growers asked for it.

Should a tax be added to cars since sales have declined so the government can market for them. Should there be an added tax on other products where sales have slipped.

Lastly, if there is an additional 15 cents they have to pay you can rest assured that the cost per tree to the consumer will go up at least a dollar. This is a government program which will require the business to comply, and in order to comply they will have to pay one of there employees for additional work that is needed. That adds costs, those costs are passed on to the consumer.

Again, it is not the program, it is the principle. It is not the governments role market private sector products.

Also, fresh Christmas tree sales have not declined due to a lack of marketing. It is due to fake trees being a better product for others. You would think you lefties would support declining Christmas tree sales as less trees are cut down.

Fascism, really, you think that National Christmas Tree Association is fascism?

Why don’t you read the entire Federal Register report and then make a meaningful comment. 

Less than 1% of live trees are imported according to the Federal Register report on the program.

Tell that to John Boehner who co-sponsored the original act in 104th Congress. 

I love the fact that to libs  the  very word Christmas  is like a crucifix is to a vampire.

Really, the German mark (Pfennigs=cents) officially ceased to be legal tender on 31 December 2001. So you are you using 10 year old facts as your example at best.

Do you just make things up?

According to a survey released by the Barna Group for the 2008 General election:

Broken down to denominational affiliation, the survey found that 23 percent of Republicans and 27 percent of Democrats are Catholic; 36 percent of Republicans and 31 percent of Democrats are non-mainline Protestants; and 21 percent of Republicans and 13 percent of Democrats are mainline Protestants.

Overall, there were smaller gaps when both parties were measured on Christian behavior. Democrats are less likely than Republicans to attend Sunday school classes (17 percent versus 25 percent); participate in church-related small groups (18 percent versus 25 percent); and to feel greater compulsion to share their faith with others (24 percent versus 34 percent). When it came to actually sharing their faith, born-again Democrats and Republicans are equally likely to have done so with someone in the last year. The two parties are also equal in prayer, Bible reading and volunteering.

It’s not a Christmas tree tax.  If anything it is an Advertising Co-Op that is paid by the growers 

I guess you can’t comprehend English. I said libs not Dems.

We have some wonderful parting gifts for you.

Enjoy.

Ok, cite some facts.

Here’s one for you – in English – Gallup Poll 2011 Oct 6-9:

Trends on Party Affiliation:

Republicans – 26%
Independents – 41%
Democrats – 36%

Republicans (and leaning Independents): 45%
Democrats (and leaning Independents): 43%

That leaves about 12% unaccounted… is that the group you are talking about? Just to be clear – in English – who are these people you think are anti-christian liberals?

Read the posts on Mediaite!

I have.

And I don’t agree with him on that. I am unlike libs who fall in line lock step with anything the Dems do. Boehner is wrong on this one.

Better question is why isn’t David Addington in jail.  Mastermind of the torture memos and the Valerie Plame outing, dude has no more right to be at his wingnut welfare job than I do.

The Tax Man Cometh !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yraGeFjyOMQ

June 25, 2010

In 2010, Conservatives Still Outnumber Moderates, LiberalsLast year’s increase in conservatism among independents is holdingby

PRINCETON, NJ — Conservatives have maintained their leading position among U.S. ideological groups in the first half of 2010. Gallup finds 42% of Americans describing themselves as either very conservative or conservative. This is up slightly from the 40% seen for all of 2009 and contrasts with the 20% calling themselves liberal or very liberal.

Oh snap:

It is called creative destruction.

What did we tell the people that made typewriters? Should we have not advanced to the point of not needing typewriters? What did we tell What did we tell carriage makers when the automobile was invented?

This is called economic churn. It is part of an economy re-allocating people and capital to where it is needed. Where there are demands. It is not the job of the government to decide which industries can survive. It is up to the people who vote with their wallets. 

Gallup Poll: Conservatives 42%, Liberals 21%

Posted on November 8, 2011

Self-professed conservatives now outnumber self-professed liberals in the United States, 42 percent to 21 percent, according to a Gallup poll published Monday.

Another 37 percent described themselves as moderates.The percentages are based on Gallup’s daily tracking polls conducted from June 1 to Aug. 31 of this year.

Still no facts on religion here.

We want the consumer to win numbnuts! BS on the wholesale end only paying the tax. All costs, and I mean all costs to a business get passed on to the consumer. ALL OF THEM. If they didn’t the business would not be able to survive.

If the wholesaler has an additional cost, it passes it onto the retailer. Do you think the retailer just eats it?

If you really want America to win the Christmas tree war, then we should have policies in place that make it possible for American companies to compete. It is not the governments job to pick winners and losers. It is the consumer that does that by choosing voluntarily to spend their money on what they want.

Excellent. What are you planning on doing about it?

And if you read the Federal Register you will see it is the Industry that is requesting and administrating this program. Blame the businesses.

The stupid thing about this is what the money is for.

Damn those fake Christmas trees!

By the way,having spent much of my life in retail I can tell you that the fee will not be abosrbed,the comments of raising the cost of a tree a full dollar,or perhaps by 50 cents, are more on the nose.

This is good news for the Jews.

If the Rich, according to Conservatives, are “Job Creators” then Fox News should be referred to as the “Mob Creators”.

Now it’s just name calling. Really?

 … then we should have policies in place that make it possible for American companies to compete. It is not the governments job to pick winners and losers

Do you see the logic error here?

Government policy protecting companies is the Government picking winners and losers.

This program is design to offer promotional activities to the overall industry. Most of the farmers are too small and they can’t collectively contribute the money without a program of support. BTW all farmers producing less that 500 trees are exempt. The goal of the program is to promote their products with advertising so that the consumers can make choices. No one is forced to buy any one product over other.

Do you really believe that there is a free market at work without Governments promoting winners and losers? I know that is not true in China and it’s not true in the US or Europe.

So where do you think there is so little Government control on trade and development that there is a true “free” market choice?

“paid by the growers” – wrong. paid by the consumer.

Do you really think the growers, who are struggling, will take on additional costs without passing them on? And if they want form a CO-OP to funnel their marketing budget through then they should do that. It is not the governments role to do this. If the growers want to market, that is on them.

All costs get passed on to the consumer. If they did not, then the business would not survive. It is obvious these growers are not making money. If they were they would not have gone to the government. They are not going to eat an additional cost.

It is a tax. Plain and simple. If it were a co-op that was paid by the growers than the government would not be involved.

Sound of crickets. 

Read the Federal Register on this program. All the details and comments are listed. You are speaking about a program based on what you think the facts are instead of the facts. Not hard to read and understand.

Why do you hate America?

well, if Boehner was in my district I would let him know that voting is such ways goes against what he sent him there to do. If he continues to vote like a liberal, we will treat him like one and not vote for him. No politician is going to vote the way I want every single time. But I will continue to vote for candidates closely match my principles.

You are only trying to get me to agree with you because a republican supported the bill. He is wrong.
I do not blindly support repubs. However, the republican platform is a better overall match to my principles and generally gain my support.

Thanks. This shows us the mentality Obama has to confront every single day in Washington. He truly has the patience of a saint. 

I saw that, and it is the governments job to tell them to pound sand. It is not the gov’t job to market for an industry.

I blame the businesses as well. But gov’t should not be involved in this. 

It’s a Christmas tree when it fits their narrative.

By the way, how about a minorah tax, or a prayer rug tax? Isn’t it discrimination to tax one religion’s holiday stuff and not another’s? Or is it all right becuse, hey, it’s just Christianity, you know.

Just wondering.

I thought that’s where Wal-Mart got their Trees!

@e935f22ab998e09cee62922e231affe3:disqus 

A Republican supported the bill

Actually 15 Republicans wrote and sponsored the bill and 207 voted for it while only 17 voted against it. Only 108 Democrats supported the bill and 71 voted against it.

If you take off the party labels you might find we agree on many things. I for one don’t like poisonous partisan politics driving a wedge in our great country. I make a serious effort to look beyond simple party politics.

When they grow a live product and request the support of the US FDA to promote farming products then they can see if they qualify for the program. 

As such I’m not sure it applies in this Republican sponsored, Republican majority passed Federal program.

As for Christmas Trees, that is the Industry term so you’ll have to take it with private business and their associations as to what they choose to call it.

They’re coming, Republicans,  They’re coming to steal your Christmas.  It’s the black guy’s fault.  Do your thing.  You never fail to amuse.

Wow…At no point did anyone post anything about race. Never fails. Do your thing Korean Trevor!

The Republican Party is built on a foundation of racism and other bigotry. Does this come as news to you?

I did read it. I know that it says the tax will be paid on a wholesale level, so to speak. I agree with you that is the intent. Unfortunately the real world does not work like that. If a business incurs a cost, in order to stay open, it must cover that cost in the sale of goods. My point is that you think a 15 cent tax per tree will be only paid by the businesses and not the consumer. This is where you are wrong. And what is passed onto the consumer is typically much more than the tax itself. Just look at the register you speak of. They will need to make sure they are in compliance. Someone at their firm will have to take on the duty of compliance. That person would be less productive, costing the business elsewhere. The business could hire someone to help, but that adds even more cost. That cost has to be covered somehow. That means prices must go up. Which means more people will buy fake chinese trees. The exact opposite of the intent of the tax. We do not live in a zero sum world. If there is more cost someone has to pay for it. Where so businesses get their money? From consumers.

maybe someday you will get it. 

Really, I think you are stepping beyond the facts here.

From Wikipedia:

Republican Party: Founded in Northern States in 1854 by anti-slavery activists, modernizers, ex-Whigs (modernizers) and ex-Free Soilers (anti-slavery), the Republican Party quickly became the principal opposition to the dominant Democratic Party and the briefly popular Know Nothing Party (anti immigration). The main cause was opposition to the Kansas–Nebraska Act, which repealed the Missouri Compromise by which slavery was kept out of Kansas. The Republicans saw the expansion of slavery as a great evil.

Really find it hard to believe that the party against slavery and against anti-immigrant laws and against the Jacksonian Democratic corruption, was founded on racism and bigotry.

Now as for these modern times… that is whole other thing entirely.

And on the lighter side…

That marxist, socialist, fascist, foreign born, hanging out with
terrorists, Muslim, black man,  friend of the Rev. Wright, evil Obama. 
Where am I going to come up with 15 cents?

The Democratic Party used to be the party of racism, the party of the South. Now the Republican Party is the party of racism, the party of the South. Why do I have to keep explaining this to people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Here’s the good news:  you only pay the tax if you call it a “Christmas tree.”  If you call it a Kwanza bush or dedicate the tree to Muhammad, the Democrats will give you a tax credit.

Bill O’ Reilly is probably running up and down the halls over at Fox “so-called” News screaming “I told you so, there really is a war on Christmas”… and then stops, looks around and grabs the breasts of the nearest intern standing next to him!!

Wow, you think I don’t “get it”. 

So when the Association tried the program in the past it helped to increase sales by 9 million more trees. You think that increasing sales was not the goal of the program?

If in 3 years time the program doesn’t not work out, it expires. Done and dusted.

And 15¢ in the wholesales cost when fuel increased by 57¢ per gallon in the past year. I’m betting that labor and fuel represent the bulk of the expenses in the business.

As for compliance. That is a simple matter of the number of trees sold at wholesale. I think you can do that in less time than you’ve spent telling me about it.

Finally, as for me getting it. I ran an Inc 500 company. I understand how business works. If you allocate 5% of your gross sales to marketing that is a good metric for ROI. Considering that wholesalers can not all directly reach end-customer demand generation, this 1% is an excellent investment in likely sales increases. 

And if it doesn’t work the Industry can simply cancel the program.

If you want to start tilting at windmills there are THOUSANDS of business programs to attack, representing far greater interests than a few thousand tree farmers.

You don’t have to explain it me. I’m just saying don’t suggest foundation – suggest other more factual statements.

What wasn’t factual about my statements?

The Republican Party is built on a foundation of racism and other bigotry

Perhaps “the modern Republican party has adopted..” or “Today’s Republicans are…” but to suggest foundation… that just isn’t true.

Its one of the reasons why modern partisan politics are destroying America. All this name calling and tribalism is keeping us from moving forward.

I think you can add more to the conversation by sticking to the facts and leaving the name calling for the people who don’t have anything much better to say.

You know it’s 15 cents once a year, stop whinning

The government is trying to pick a winner. That by definition is fascism.

Another great thinker tossing out the F word like some stupid high school sophomore.

Wow that makes so much sense, compared to the usual right wing crapheads with their usual chorus of “He hates Christians, Jews!!”

Why do you love Mussolini?

“No, it’s anti-business, pro-fascism, and xenophobic”
You’re slipping Tony, you forgot racist, antisemitic and Christian hating

Yes they are, the National Christmas Tree Association want to conquer Canada & Mexico and force all of them to buy US trees only!

Oh I’ll tell them, by never buying a live tree again and by telling everyone I know to not buy one.

They’re not “promoting their business”, they’re buying government propaganda. The artificial Christmas tree makers are the ones who actually promoted their business which is why they’re so successful.

They aren’t taxing the holiday, they are taxing a certain product to help promote the product, and the growers themselves started this initiative.  And to all the religion based comments, how about we keep the comments in line with what the article is about instead of going off topic to argue about shit that isn’t relevant to this particular forum.  Words mean things so pay better attention next time you read a story.

You got a point, put a tariff on fake imported trees.

Yes, the mentality of people against Obama is that the government oversteps its bounds on a regular basis. The majority of the country agrees with this, and vicariously Obama’s poll numbers suck.

It’s absolutely true. What do you think all those Confederate flags are all about? Just because the names change doesn’t mean the foundation changes.

Correct. Again, this is how fascism works. The live Christmas tree industry doesn’t like the competition from artificial Christmas trees, so they request the government to impose a tax so they can create propaganda.

Get a job.

It’s not my fault that you’re ashamed to call fascism what it is. That’s your hang-up, not mine.

What is HILARIOUS about this whole thing, the Obama administration is saying they are going to use this tax to create ANOTHER board that will supposedly promote Christmas trees.

Come on you frelling leftists, admit this is supposedly something you were against just a few years ago. Growing government for worthless reasons.

Yet here you are attempting to defend an asinine tax and board.

Hypocrisy be thy name.

You are free to do this with as much vim and vigor as you want. That is what makes this country great. 

I don’t applaud your outright desire to see fellow American’s businesses suffer, but you are free to spread your vision of a “free market” dystopian bleak future of Chinese business overloads as long as you want, and as long as they don’t get a chance to stop you.

Please remember however that you live in this country with people who don’t all share your view and they may also like to promote American tree farmers over Chinese plastic tree manufactures who have taken American jobs with aggressive state-run industrial policies designed to drive our local businesses out of the market.

Bully for you, you are a true patriot for the cause of global trade and Chinese communism.

Oh and to be sure you understand the program here’s what else you will be avoiding in the near future.

US Dairy Products, Fruit and Vegetables, Poultry, Cotton, Livestock and Seeds, National Organic Programs, Eggs, Pork, Almonds, Peanuts, Pistachio Nuts, Mushrooms, avocado, Honey, Popcorn, Potatoes, Soybean products, Watermelon and Beef. Full Program Details

You are either completely unaware of the pre-existing relationship with Agriculture and promotional programs, or you are living a version of America that really doesn’t exist.

So good luck promoting all those boycotts.

The fact that this would be shifted to the consumer is highly unlikely since costs don’t dictate price. The Market does.  Its a supply and demand thing.

The $0.15 per tree will not factor into the Supply of trees since the trees were “put into production” 7 years ago.  Maybe you could argue that it could effect how many trees they plant for the supply 7 years from now, but I feel that $0.15 per trees is a very small increase to the price of inputs.   

“The government is trying to pick a winner. That by definition is fascism.”
No, it isn’t

Because it isn’t fascism, but right wingers have latched on to that word to misuse it just like the left did. Same with PC these days.

So go ahead, be a crank and whine about fascism. When one adds that to your imaginary global warming church & conspiracy, it might explain why you are not taken seriously around here.

Mussolini had a tax on Xmas trees too?

Screw the tree growers.  I always buy live trees but giving anyone a tax on a tree for anything is a bunch of crap.  No more taxes for anything stupid, sorry.  This qualifies as stupid.  If they want to advertise, they can cough it up themselves.

/rant

Tony, I’ve made numerous posting with the Federal Register extremely easy to find. Go read it. USDA program at the request of the National Christmas Tree Association. It didn’t come out of nowhere.

As for fascism.. really? Here’s the functional definition from the good old Websters

 a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

In your worldview our system of Government has deteriorated to a dictatorial leader without a Congress and Supreme Court. 

Your rights to be opposed are somehow suppressed by the Government and you are forced into social regimentation?

From the posts you make here I’d say you are pretty free to make up anything you want and that you are equally free to live in your version of reality, notwithstanding the facts.

I love that fact that you can express an opinion, however I don’t support name calling and making the rest of us swallow conspiracy theories about the strength of the our representative democracy. The last I checked we still hold elections, have multiple parties and an active political press presenting all sorts of oppositional thinking every day.

Red China applauds “patriots” like Tony!

Less than 1% of real christmas trees are imported dipshit, now come up with another excuse.  ITS 15 CENTS ONCE A YEAR! GET OVER IT!

If you have to resort to cheap attacks like that one, it just shows what a typical right wing porcine head you are. You are such a crackpot!

That is exactly the sort of simple off topic, right wing garbage that makes you Mediaites #1 fathead.

Yes, because those three religions are the only ones that exist.  Obviously.

Dude, it was only a third of the Trinity that knocked her up, and that’s the wrong third.  Also, it did it with MAGICKKK, not sex.  Get your Jesus-y stories right, bro.

So the people who currently go out in the cold, have excited children who get to chug hot chocolate and go on sleigh rides, pick (and potentially cut down) your own tree and just generally enjoy the ambiance of a tree farm (guess what, they’re mostly decorated sorta Christmassy) are going to be repelled at paying up to a 1/35 increase on their trees, predicated if the individual farm owners decide to pass the cost on?  And that extra cost goes to promoting said tree farm and the whole tree farm experience?  Oh noes!

Ooooh….Komment Kop !!

Fux !  gNOpig !  Billdo !  Crapputo !

*drink up*

Where does The Royal Emperor find time to post under all these names and still travel the world ??

This just in:
Christmas tree tax voided.

Does this mean you no longer consider them the party of no?

“Bully for you, you are a true patriot for the cause of global trade and Chinese communism.”

Funny you should say that since the United States has been dropping in the ranks when it comes to ease of doing business and China has been rising. It’s still easier to do business in Hong Kong or Shanghai than on any square foot of land in America.

If you need a job then what the hell are you doing on here making an ass of yourself?

Every SINGLE person in the country is. The unseen tax is one of the highest tax that everyone in the world pays. It is called inflation. Oh, do not come back with your government provided lies either on the inflation rate. Inflation right now is at approximately 8%.

Over last year that rate went as high 15%. It is kind of hard to rate the inflation though when the economy is being manipulated to such a degree.

By the way, I have a feeling you are not going to be invited to Atlantis.

@ViewPointNext:disqus “a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition”

Good for you. Now other than the incorrectly associated race element from the Webster’s definition (they’re supposedly good at defining terms and terrible at World War II history), how is this not fascism?

That’s because tariffs are fascist. They’re protectionist tools meant to block out foreign competition, trying to pick the domestic option which is probably inferior if needs protections by tariffs.

I understand that this is not a tax because our government says it is not.  I understand that it is paid by the grower, who has no option as to whether or not to participate.  So it increases the cost of production by 15 cents per item.  The grower is free to pass this cost along to the subsequent purchaser(s) but is not required to do so. 
Is it possible that the grower will absorb this cost? Yes, it is possible, but not probable.  The consumer will ultimately bear the cost. 
Just how much of the 15 cent per tree “fee” will go to administrative costs and how much will actually go to promotion.  We all know how efficiently the government spends our money.

This tree tax is far more outrageous than the cost to service Bush era debt.  Leave it to FOX to point the folks in the right direction.

Actually the “christmas” tree roots ARE in fact in pagan belief – not christian.  You won’t find any reference to christmas trees in the bible.

“Christmas” trees reflect the melding of pagan and christian beliefs.

So enjoy your “taxed” solstice tree!   Socialized solstice!

if the prayer rug industry got together and decided to pool some of their funds so they too could have a similar campaign, why not?

if you read the post you might understand it’s not really a “tax”…

But I guess that wouldn’t fit into your persecuted christian narrative as nicely…

Yes, FREEDUMB!

If you don’t buy the american grown tree with the 15 cent tax, Obama’s jack booted fascist thugs will line you up against the wall!!!!

Shall we have constest for Tony’s campaign theme?

Got stupid?

Got paranoid?

Tony sure does!

What? This is 1996 – 104th Congress. What do you mean?

@facebook-1496648721:disqus Wow you really are detached from reality on this. 
Easy to do business? 

Depends on who you ask and under what situations. The Communist Party makes it easy to do business until they don’t.

Now please cite your references on this.

That’ll show em!

If you get so bent out of shape about a 15 cent tax on a tree that you can choose not to buy, your life must be REALLY difficult.  The lives of those unfortunate enough to deal with you even MORE difficult!

Are you going to add beef (it’s what’s for dinner!) and pork (the other white meat) to your boycott?

In the early days of the country, the Federal government’s main source of revenue was tariffs. So I guess our founding fathers were fascists too?

I give up on this thread… carry on.

I’ll send you 3 empty returnable cans.

Atlantis? Ok I don’t get that reference.

So there are many hands on the levers of inflation from local governments to the Federal government to offshore governments. 

From state controlled to “free market” businesses. 

So what does this have to do with current federal tax policies on the nominal basis?

WILEYCOYOTA.Sarcasm anyone? I was joking on Westover’s idiotic fascism meme !

Probably not but then that’s not what I said is it?

what I said is the idea of a fee to somehow support christmas tree farmers by essentially taxing the growers is,in my opinion,stupid.the only recourse for the grower is to pass it along or else the growers is paying to support him or herself.

The idea of the grower absorbing a fee designed to help the grower is stupid.And the grower will not pass along a few cents it will be rounded up.

So your point is?

Wow Tony, you take the cake for literal minded fathead logic:

Race and Nation are actually almost the same. Like the race of Frenchmen have a nation called France. Nation supersedes conventional governments and boundaries to include all people who speak a common language and have a similar culture. That is why Mussolini was so fixated in restoring the old Italian Roman provinces. Mussolini broke from the pacifistic Socialists in WW l to push Italy into a war, against her erstwhile Central Powers allies, so she could grab “historic” Italian lands from the AH Empire.

Who is John Galt? Atlantis reference.

Really did they start your occupy this and that movement mobs. You stupid stupid tool!.

Way to stay on topic skippy.

If you read the libs comments here you will see they have been changing the topic with almost each reply.

Just like Stonepark’s usual rubbish, that is a lie too.

Didn’t know Christmas trees needed any promotion. Seems like things have been going fine in the tree business without the govt.

I joined the tea party. The only ones who seem to care about balancing the check book.

Here’s more proof that Fox “so-called” News is a JOKE:

Christmas tree tax covered 4 times today

Ohio vote in support of unions covered 0 times today!!

And the brain of bird.

I guess you don’t “really” know what a tax is.

You are such a pos.

And you read the Federal Register with detailed explanation on why the industry wanted to participate in this program. 

Artifical trees enjoy a three month promotion while live trees only have about four weeks from late November till the holiday. Sales of artificial trees increase by over 600% in the past thirty years, while live tree sales lost nearly 18 million units per year

So not so fine.

These people are so pathological in their fear of any tax increase for anyone — no matter how insignificant — that they’re willing to believe anything at all. Including the myth that their taxes went up during the last three years, when the overwhelming majority of Americans actually got cuts. But facts aren’t relevant when their guts tell them the opposite.

ViewPoint Next is getting paid to post here.

Fathead would imply that there’s something in the cranium that requires a large container. I think we can agree that that’s obviously not the case. 

Now if we speculate as to the actual location of SP3′s brain, perhaps fat ass would be more appropriate. 

You’re mistaking posts that are pro-reason as anti-Christian.

They incite imbeciles into action based on lies.  They also started the Tea Party asshat.

Really… news to me… where can I pick up my check? 

Except that you’re wrong. 

Polls have consistently shown that Obama’s proposal for raising taxes on the very wealthiest Americans to help us get out of our financial hole — the hole that W. dug, BTW — is hugely popular. Something like 60 or 70 percent favor this. Even REPUBLICANS favor this. 

I’d say I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I don’t really care what you think

Oh. Viewpoint, since you want to reduce everything to Dem vs. rep..- chew on this:

Gallup: Republicans Go to Church More than Dems

CBNNews.com Tuesday, November 08, 2011Republicans go to church more often than Democrats, and conservatives outnumber liberals in America, according to the results of recent Gallup polls.

Fifty-two percent of Democrats said they seldom or never go to church, in a recent poll published Monday.

 According to Gallup, 61 percent of Republicans go to church weekly or monthly, compared to 47 percent of Democrats. The latest poll also found that 42 percent of Americans call themselves conservatives, while only 21 percent say they are liberals.

Oh, snaparoo!

Oh, and son, next time don’t bring a knife to a gunfight!

LOL

@DavidJKramer:disqus Ahh yes the world of fiction and mythology… excellent references for real world understandings and guidance on how to move forward.

Oh. Viewpoint, since you want to reduce everything to Dem vs. rep..- chew on this:

Gallup: Republicans Go to Church More than Dems

CBNNews.com
Tuesday, November 08, 2011Republicans go to church more often than
Democrats, and conservatives outnumber liberals in America, according to
the results of recent Gallup polls.

Fifty-two percent of Democrats said they seldom or never go to church, in a recent poll published Monday.

 According
to Gallup, 61 percent of Republicans go to church weekly or monthly,
compared to 47 percent of Democrats. The latest poll also found that 42
percent of Americans call themselves conservatives, while only 21
percent say they are liberals.

Oh, snaparoo!

And son, next time don’t bring a knife to a gunfight!

LOL

Guess not – I’ve never heard of an industry lobbying for a tax on its product.

I dont care what the market dictates. If it costs you more to run your business than the amount of money you can bring in, you wont last long.

Oh look it’s the lib liar Morris the abuser on minors!

It has nothing to do with the tax increase. It is the fact that the gov’t is marketing for a specific industry. It is not the role of the gov’t. They are choosing to support one industry over another. What about the plastic tree industry. Wont more sales of real trees affect them negatively. Should they get a gov’t program to market for them?

“As for compliance. That is a simple matter of the number of trees sold
at wholesale. I think you can do that in less time than you’ve spent
telling me about it.”

Nothing with a government program is simple my friend. You obviously have never dealt with federal government in business. Nothing is simple.

“Finally, as for me getting it. I ran an Inc 500 company. I understand
how business works. If you allocate 5% of your gross sales to marketing
that is a good metric for ROI. Considering that wholesalers can not all
directly reach end-customer demand generation, this 1% is an excellent
investment in likely sales increases.”

I see you say you “ran” a business, Past tense makes sense. you are talking about a marketing budget. That is very different than having the gov’t impose a tax to pay for marketing done by the gov’t. Marketing should be a part of the business. If they cant afford to market that’s on them.

Again, this all has to do with the role of gov’t. This is not their role.

As you said “I guess you can’t comprehend English. I said libs not Dems.” Knife… gunfight … how Christian of you.

So your first point does not support your second point. And those stats don’t support your theory.

You have to find a way to prove that liberals hate Jesus. Considering the teaching of Christ and his feelings about wealth, charity and support for the poor you are at a logical conundrum.

Exactly why would these liberal socialists be against a man who said the following:

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Matthew 19:21

“When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.” – Luke 14:12-14

“Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions” Luke 12:15

“You cannot serve both God and Money.” – Matthew 6:24

If you read the words of Jesus Christ and study the New Testament you will find that so-called Liberals match these ideals much more closely than a group of people who would live by the ideal of “I’ve got mine, not get your own”.

I did my time in service to my church as a child and adult. I’m comfortable with my understanding of the Christian faith.

But I’d be interested in your thoughts on this matter.

“Do you really believe that there is a free market at work without
Governments promoting winners and losers? I know that is not true in
China and it’s not true in the US or Europe.”

No I don’t. I wish the gov’t didn’t get involved. Consumers are the best regulators we have. If you don’t give them what they want, they will find someone else to do it.

Liar.

@e935f22ab998e09cee62922e231affe3:disqus 
Yes ran an Inc 500 company. I’ve run a number of companies (and still do), served as an officer for a number of industry boards, worked with dozens of trade associations and spoken before Congress. I’ve got a good handle on things.. thanks for asking.

The published rules are extraordinarily simple for a seasonal business that only lasts about 60 days a year. 

I think you want to see a bogey man behind every corner. They aren’t always there.

Consider you an imbecile then.

They started the tea party? Are you really this dumb?

Since 85% are from China… yes maybe the Chinese will give them support for the market. As for US manufacturers, they are long gone. So I’m guess that horse has left the barn.

Now you want to address the point that this program also applies to a number of agricultural products?

Are they also in need of fixing, if so you’ve got your work cut out for you.

Barely literate huh?  You must be a Tea Party Grand Wizard!

Well, American’s For Prosperity started the Tea Party, Fox just monetized it.

It’s the truth little girl!!

@ab60e255d70470d837e0ca9827afd40b:disqus Here’s a good start on your balancing check book.

Why don’t you demand information on this:

After the successful invasion of Iraq in 2003 Pentagon officials determined that one giant C-130 Hercules cargo plane could carry $2.4 billion in shrink-wrapped bricks of $100 bills. They sent an initial full planeload of cash, followed by 20 other flights to Iraq by May 2004 in a $12-billion haul that U.S. officials believe to be the biggest international cash airlift of all time.

In June 2011, the Pentagon and the Iraqi government finally closed the books on the program that handled all those Benjamins. But despite years of audits and investigations, U.S. Defense officials still cannot say what happened to $6.6 billion in cash 

If you find that money we’d have enough for the Christmas Tree program for about 3,300 YEARS.

We had money stolen right from our hands and there is no outrage, an industry group looking to keep 3 thousand small businesses in business is an outrage. 

Perhaps you priorities are not in sync with reality.

Poor boy- I said look to the comments on Mediaite by libs- you have not done your homework and you did  break things down by political party.

But since you like to cite sources for info, try this on libs versus conservatives on religious beliefs:

Liberals are also far less likely than conservatives to strongly believe each of the following:
their religious faith is very important in their life (54% of liberals vs. 82% of conservatives);a person cannot earn their way into Heaven by doing good deeds or being a good person (23% vs. 37%);their faith is becoming an increasingly important moral guide in their life (38% vs. 70%);the church they currently attend is very important in helping them find direction and fulfillment in life (37% vs. 62%);their primary purpose in life is to love God with all their heart, mind, strength and soul (43% vs. 76%);Jesus Christ did not commit sins during His time on earth (33% vs. 55%).

The Barna study examined five specific religious practices and found that conservatives were more likely than liberals to engage in all five. In a typical week, the survey showed that conservatives were more likely than liberals to:

read the Bible, other than at church events, during the past week (57% vs. 33%, respectively)attend a religious service during the past week (62% vs. 35%)pray to God, other than at a religious service, during the past week (91% vs. 76%)share their religious beliefs with others, during the past year (56% vs. 39%, among the born again Christians interviewed from each segment)have ever participated in a short-term missions trip, either within the U.S. or in another country (12% vs. 6%)

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/13-culture/258-survey-shows-how-liberals-and-conservatives-differ-on-matters-of-faith

But do your homework- pursue any of the past posts on religious issues on Mediaite and just review the abject hate of libs to religion. It is indeed quite remarkable.

But what is remarkable is the I have no issue with someone being an agnostic or an atheist- but libs on Mediaite sure do have a problem with people believing in God!

@e935f22ab998e09cee62922e231affe3:disqus 

Wow I want to drink some of what you are drinking… 

Where do you imagine this world of exists? Or for that matter ever has?

The aggressive trade acts of the British Government in the 1760s and 1770s caused our Revolution. These acts were both to raise revenue and to protect private company’s interests in our markets by British companies.

There are wars, armed and cold, fought across trade routes even to this day to make a point of protecting markets, trade and creating unbalanced access to natural resources.

Your fantasy “free market” does not exist today, did not exist in the past, and as long as there are people with vested interested in creating and protecting wealth (absolutely nothing wrong with this) then there will be unfair regulations, favoritism, taxes and other rules, regulations and fees to protect markets.

You really should update your worldview with some understanding of how things really work outside of the blog boards.

Why are you patronizing me. 

These statistics still don’t put a number to the idea of who is against “Christmas” nor do they show much range of difference between the evangelical and the traditional Christian in either “conservative” or “liberal” ideas. 

This study did not conclude that all conservatives are Christians and it didn’t conclude all liberals are not Christians.

You still don’t have a more than a few people online to prove they “hate Christmas”.

I think you might want to stop making everyone into an enemy and learn to make friends to paraphrase Jesus.

I know you’re envious and hate the rich.

That doesn’t change the fact that the majority of Americans think that Obama sucks at his job. You are in the minority.

Get a job.

lol. just figured anyone posting that much had some chips on the table.

I watched it covered this morning before I went to work. Your mom probably hadn’t woke you up yet to feed you your fruitloops and rush you to catch the school bus.

@morrisminor:disqus – This is of course an overt lie, but that’s what you do whenever you post here.

Anyway, for anyone actually curious: our federal government was primarily paid for with use taxes and selling land. Tariffs were instituted later to stifle competition and were one of the factors building up to the Civil War.

@ViewPointNext:disqus – *LOL* Of course you give up because you can’t refute the truth in my posts.

Most states charge state tax on live trees

I was in Germany for two years, Big cities, small towns all over, never heard of such a thing.  Either someone lied to you about their experiance or they saw you comming.

Nobody made any comments on expected revenue being less than costs.

Invariable means “not changing” – tradition means “a customary pattern of thought or action”  condesend means “to assume an air of superiority” Pablo interjected that your post was not supported by his experiance (nor was it supported by my experiance)  Your response was RUDE and your post was not factual.  Now, go get a life.

183 comments about a $.15 increase on Christmas trees???    I dearly hope the topic morphed.

And nothing he sites speaks to the only thing that matters …. living your life as a reflection of Jesus’ teachings.  What ever happened to WWJD?

Quit being a crybaby.

It’s a pretty inexpensive cost for lots of free advertising. Live tree demand has been down …. this is a program that helps the farmer for very little cost on his part.  And if past on to the buyer it’s minuscule.
The got milk campaign has been pretty successful.

My point would be even if the farmer passes it on to the consumer … that consumer gladly pays the tiny fee knowing the farmer will get good free advertising along the lines of “got milk?” …. which has been pretty darn successful.  The consumer can even imagine his Grinchy little heart grew 2 sizes that day.

Doesn’t sound like much of a profit margin if he goes under over $.15 a tree.

You may have changed your user name but you’re still the same twisted mind.  You’ve been flagged and I hope banned.

You started your first comment with “The stupid thing about this is what the money is for.”  Then you seem to be arguing that there’s no way in hell that growers will eat 15 cents, but I’m not sure who you are arguing with?  Whether the growers decide to adjust their retail cost to (more than) cover this fee or add it on the “marketing” column of their expenditure sheet, it’ll affect zero current customers and will provide nationwide advertising, attracting more customers.  Having spent much of your life in retail, this should be overwhelmingly obvious.

Oh, and everything Prog Kitty wrote above me.

Christmas is stupid?

Thanks for missing the point.  The tax is stupid, the rationale behind wanting the tax is stupid, and the rationale behind the ‘need’ for the tax is stupid.

Christmas itself has nothing to do with it.

No one has ever said that we can’t say Christmas Tree! That’s such a GOP myth!

Fox news as always put a anti obama spin on this. He has nothing to do with the idea. In 2009 the National Christmas tree Association requested the fee for the trees so they could use the money to promote sales of the trees. This is not a tax it is a fee and will not go to the Government but will go back into the very business of selling the tree’s.

They didn’t. The lobbied for a fee. The media labeled it a tax in order to make Obama look like he was behind it.

That’s because the rich are the ones that fucked this country up. They sent the jobs over seas. They got billions in tax breaks and free money. They screwed the middle class and the poor. They should pay their fair share and stop claiming they use the moeny they don’t pay to create jobs. They don’t.

Its also not a tax. Its a fee the Nationa Christmas Tree Association asked for in 2009 to be used to promote the sale of live trees. The media labeled  it a tax and suggested Obama was behind it when it was not him or his people that created the idea.

I was thinking the same thing. At 15 cents I think I can look under my car seats and find that. Or walk a walmart parking lot. 

Try researching your facts. Fox News has lied here. Obama and his people had nothing to do with this. The National Christmas Tree Association asked for this fee not tax in 2009 so they could use the money to promote the sales of live trees over fake. But before they could hike the price they have to get permission from the Agg Dept to do that. So now Obama’s people have to say yes or no so Fox uses that as anti Obama lies and make it seem like he is trying to tax trees

Agreed