…Palin made it very clear that immigration may be the one substantive issue around which she has a tight grip.

Frances, when talking to your friends, are you actually able to say, “I’m a journalist” without laughing or cracking a smile? Do you think they know you really mean to say, “I’m a political advocate masquerading as a journalist, but I inject my opinion in my articles all the time. Oh, and I’m pretty snarky and nasty about it too.”?

I bet they know. We do.

Look at that, ImNotBlue, I put it into the columnist category just for you!

Actually, you’re right that it is my opinion exclusively that she looks really, really strong when she talks about immigration. It was meant as a compliment. She does not look this strong on any other issue [I believe]. Compliment or not, it’s an opinion.

And to answer your question, my friends know me as a writer, because that is what I call myself. And thank you for the compliments! “Snarky” is a badge of honor on the blogosphere!

Frances Martel says:
July 10, 2010 at 6:40 pm

Well, since you put it in the “Columnist” column… I take back my original snark. I appreciate the distinction, and your recognizing that it belonged there.

Thank you!

And for that… I’ll wish you a pleasant evening!

Ronald Reagan made the illegal aliens into citizens so employers replaced them with more illegal aliens. It is time for hiring of illegals be made into a crime enforced with a very heavy fine.

There’s no doubt about it, Reagan got duped. None of the protections built into Simpson-Mazzoli were ever taken seriously.

Not by the Republicans~who want to keep cheap unskilled labor flowing into the country, or the Democrats~who see the extremely impoverished illegal immigrants as potential voters they can bribe into voting D, with pmoises of loads of public assistance.

So, enforcement of illegal immigration has been a scam played by both sides, for decades.

But things are very different today, than they were in the 1980′s.

Then, most of the illegal border hoppers were decent, honest, hard working people, looking for an honest day’s work, for an honest day’s pay. They kept as low a profile as possible, obeyed all of our laws, because they knew anybody & everybody would turn them in.

Today, most of the illegal border hoppers might also be looking for work too, but most won’t miss any opportunity to make some fast cash by doing all kinds of other illegal acts. That’s because they know our jails are overflowing, & for most offenses, they’ll just be bussed back across the border, instead of doing any hard jail time. And today, no school system is allowed to contact ICE when they discover illegal aliens, most large cities have sanctuary policies too, & even the most despicable criminals, if convicted of crimes, serve their time & are released here, not in their country of origin.

But we have an opportunity to make things right, right now. We can FORCE our politicians to either enforce our borders & our laws, or toss them out of office.

Then, we can pass common sense laws, to address the issues surrounding the illegal aliens that are still here, & to allow for temporary alien labor as well.

We needs laws to strike down every possibility of anyone that has broken immigration law, from gaining full citizenship rights. That’s not to say deport them all. But, they won’t be allowed to utilize our political system, or any of our social safety programs.

The only exception, would be for those that voluntarily exit, who then reenter legally & are granted citizenship after meeting the same requirements that every other legal immigrant is subject to follow,

Then we can address the temporary worker issue through a sensible visa program, that allows foreign nationals to temporarily enter for seasonal work, if & when it’s available.

Although there are certainly other related issues to deal with, that’s the basic outline, that can & will work if it’s enacted.

Waaaaah poor poor illegal aliens ! You liberals/progressives are pathetic. You wouldn’t open your door for a Girls scout let alone a illegal ! So full of phony BS. Waaaah .

I don’t understand the complexity here. We all feel bad for well-meaning people, but if they are illegal, that is a fact we cannot overlook. As for Reagan, Palin is right here. That is one mistake he made — amnesty which lead employers to hire and exploit them. I think paths to citizenship should be made availabl…e but with reviews of each with possible deportation depending on how many crimes they’ve committed, if they’ve been collecting welfare, or if they’ve been working. One deal should be made: where illegal aliens would NOT be deported if they agreed to sue their employers for violating the minimum wage law, that would end the problem with employers tomorrow.

blue is right, Frances.

I actually like Palin a lot, but I thought this interview (which I watched live) was awful. she didn’t sound like she had a “grasp” at all and wouldn’t answer O’Reilly’s questions about what she would do with the 12 million illegals.

it was a disappointing performance. but it might yet work for good: if enough tea party types would realize she’s really NOT a good presidential candidate, maybe they’d stop bringing that up and we could concentrate on finding someone who could actually beat Obama.

It’s all about the Hispanic vote for Barack .. Plain and Simple .. Don’t make this a humanity cause LIBS , it doesn’t pass the laugh test.

If you want to see the “shine” come off of the amnesty argument for Dems, just make it mandatory that ANY illegals allowed to stay in this country NEVER be given the right to vote.

They’ll drop it immediately.

Seriously , what good does it do for Republicans standing for the SB 1070 AZ bill ?

Answer : Morality , somthing most vote hungry democrats don’t have .

“what she would do with the 12 million illegals.”

Business want to keep them as cheap labor, Democrats want them as more poor ignorant voters. No politician has a decent answer.

Cut off the slave labor jobs and they will deport themselves. A local tire store here now has all none English speaking labor force and they are still the most expensive store in town.

Frances Martel said:
“Snarky” is a badge of honor on the blogosphere!

Well, you got two types of information passers on the internet, bloggers and journalists. I guess everyone reading this now knows which group you seek to identify yourself with.

Cheers!

Moderate , to be honest I am for amnesty for those making a honest living. Problem is, Democrats are for open borders, I have yet to hear a democrat suggest, closing or completely securing our border.

Hey, what happened to BHO’s charge that it was “racial profiling” that would lead them to sue Arizona?

Talk about playing the lame race card. I guess maybe Holder, Barry and Napolitano finally read the law.

Here’s an eye opener:

http://www.plamerican.com/if-taxpayers-only-knew-county-attorney-decries-costs-illegal-aliens-107

‘If the taxpayers only knew’: County attorney decries costs of illegal aliens

Prior Lake American (Prior Lake, Minnesota)

By Shannon Fiecke, Correspondent

Excerpt:

A man in the country illegally who committed a $27,000 identity-theft crime in Scott County was still able to obtain tens of thousands of federal dollars in medical assistance, including surgery for an inflatable penis pump.

In response to heightened concern about illegal immigration since a gang-related stabbing in Shakopee, Scott County Attorney Pat Ciliberto has been tallying known costs to taxpayers and gave this example.

“There’s no logical argument for why that should have been approved,” Ciliberto told county commissioners on Tuesday. “I don’t know how many illegal aliens are getting emergency medical assistance for such a procedure.”

It is impossible to know the full cost of illegal immigrants in Scott County receiving public assistance or going through the court system, but the burden on the jail alone is staggering.

The county’s cost for housing inmates with immigration holds has grown nearly tenfold in recent years, reaching more than $307,000 last year. The impact over the last four years totaled $843,600, which doesn’t even include medical coverage.

“It should be obvious when Scott County goes from seven bookings in 2006 to 90 bookings in 2009 that Arizona’s problem is Minnesota’s problem too,” Ciliberto said.

These numbers represent just a portion of the illegal immigrants actually housed in Scott County.

The jail routinely checks the immigration status of foreign-born inmates. But for every illegal alien that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) puts a hold on and actually takes, there are probably two to three the agency ignores, said Scott County Jail Lt. Doug Schnurr. (The jail does not keep statistics on its total illegal-inmate population.)

When ICE does pick someone up, Schnurr said he’s heard the agency typically asks the illegal alien a bunch of questions before releasing him or her on the street the same day.

“The number they keep in custody is relatively small,” he said.
Because of limited resources, ICE can only target the most extreme cases, Schnurr explained.

“The guy going around shoplifting is not as nearly as big a concern as an illegal going around shooting people. They prioritize in that fashion,” Schnurr said.

Shakopee Police Chief Jeff Tate noted that ICE always puts holds on individuals who’ve been deported before.

Scott County is only able to recoup about 7 percent of its cost from the federal government for incarcerating illegal immigrants, Ciliberto said.

There are also unseen costs.

Virtually all meth coming into Scott County is produced in Mexico, and much of the area’s cocaine and marijuana is being trafficked across the U.S. southern border, according to the Southwest Metro Drug Task Force.

While American troops are patrolling other countries, Ciliberto sees an emergency unfolding here.

“Mexico is collapsing; the democracy may be collapsing. It does constitute a national security threat,” Ciliberto said. “We have no control over the southern border. We don’t know who is coming in and what country they’re coming from.”

In Mexico, more than 23,000 have been killed in the past four years because of drug cartels fighting for power, he said.

Scott County officials say they’re bound by federal and state rules in providing welfare to illegal aliens, and there are also costs to the courts, schools and hospitals.

“My hat’s off to Arizona, to people who’ve said, ‘We’ve had enough,’” said county Commissioner Barbara Marschall of Prior Lake. “We’re thousands miles away from the southern border. It’s here and it’s going to get worse.”

It is impossible to tally the total welfare costs because of data privacy restrictions, Ciliberto said.

“If the taxpayers only knew,” Ciliberto said. “The taxpayers should know.”

In addition to being eligible for emergency medical assistance and pregnancy assistance, if illegal aliens bear children in this country, they can obtain welfare benefits for their children and aren’t required to provide Social Security numbers, said county health and human services director Tim Walsh.

“In many of our criminal investigations involving illegal aliens we find that people here illegally are receiving substantial financial benefits paid for by taxpayers or have received them,” Ciliberto said.

Marschall pointed out that local taxpayers are having difficulty while the county is forced to pick up costs for illegal aliens due to state and federal rules.

“Maybe it’s time for a revolution here. That 14th Amendment, we are a different country than we were back then,” she said.
Ciliberto said the 14th Amendment, guaranteeing citizenship to children born in the United States, was enacted during Reconstruction to protect the offspring of African slaves.

County Commissioner Jon Ulrich of Savage suggested local officials develop a strategy to combat illegal immigration.

“They’re obviously overwhelmed,” he said. “I don’t think it’s something we can just throw up our hands and say we can’t do anything.”

The intrinsic cost to the system nationwide “could be billions, trillions of dollars,” said County Commissioner Tom Wolf of Savage.
“The cheapest way to deal with this is to stop the leak,” Ciliberto said. “We have troops stationed all over the world. We do not have troops stationed on our border.”

Ciliberto said Scott County is not a sanctuary county but is stymied by the federal government, which provides welfare benefits to illegal aliens and not enough enforcement support.
“Immigration and customs enforcement are not properly funded and staffed,” he said.

Ciliberto gave the example of one woman, here illegally, who was deported in 2001 for running drugs.

In 2009, the woman was stopped in Scott County on a traffic violation. She was held 25 days in the Scott County Jail before being released to the federal government.

Read the rest of the article here:

http://www.plamerican.com/if-taxpayers-only-knew-county-attorney-decries-costs-illegal-aliens-107

Tex– Agreed . Crystal Meth has become rampant here in SoCal due to the Mexican drug trade .

murf said:
Moderate , to be honest I am for amnesty for those making a honest living. Problem is, Democrats are for open borders, I have yet to hear a democrat suggest, closing or completely securing our border.

My feeling is along those same lines but I really don’t want to talk about it until we get control of the border. First things first.

murf said:
Tex– Agreed . Crystal Meth has become rampant here in SoCal due to the Mexican drug trade .

Heh. I remember El Cajon in the 80′s when it was all bikers and such bringing the meth. Ever drive down a street at 3 AM and everyone has all their lights on?

Pablo said:
Heh. Ever drive down a street at 3 AM and everyone has all their lights on?

Lights, those were their EYES!!

I liked this interview–it was very obvious that Sarah Palin didn’t have a grasp on the entire issue. She looked to O’Reilly to provide her with answers and tried to spout off information that didn’t even pertain to what he was asking–and he put the pressure on her when he commented that Reagan’s plan didn’t work. Sarah looked like she was going to say how successful Reagan was and then did a doubletake when she was told that it failed. What would have really been funny would be if O”Reilly had asked her what parts of his plan worked and what parts failed–because Sarah was just agreeing to cover up her ignorance. She would have been crying the next day about how gotcha journalism and being picked on!

I think the next person who interviews her should ask her if she has ever seen a Mama Grizzley standing up on its hind feet to protect its cubs. Sorry, Sarah, maybe that was Roy Roger’s horse, Trigger, that you were thinking of. Stuffed animals, yes, but otherwise you are letting your imagination run wild. Maybe you were thinking about all the unicorns that you have seen in LaLaLand.

Sheryn said:
Sorry, Sarah, maybe that was Roy Roger’s horse, Trigger, that you were thinking of.

No, Trigger died in 1965 just like your brain did.

Pablo . Hahahaha .. Yes ! 3 am crusing is a thing of the past here in Riverside County

What a f*cking dolt. It was like O’Reilly was feeding her the responses in that interview and she was repeating them back. “Yes I will have them register with the Federal government”.

You people are honest to God f*cking pathetic for putting this woman on a pedestal.

Wait, wait…. you’re saying Sarah Palin UNDERSTANDS the immigration issue and that is is one of her strong points? Did you watch the same video I did? She was FLAILING out there. She was spoon fed all her answers by O’Reilly and she agreed to all he said, and when she tried to deviate into deportation only rhetoric, Bill brought her back. So to say she understands the immigration issue is disingenuous at best.

And let’s be clear about one thing: FACTS.

Ronald Reagan didn’t “botch” immigration reform by giving amnesty. That wasn’t the problem. The problem was there was essentially no enforcement arm for employers- typical of republican administrations. Without that, try deporting 12 million people, you’ll have 20 million new ones in 10 years. What 1986, also known as IRCA also did was end the circular migration pattern. No longer did mexicans come and go, they stayed, and numbers sky rocketed from a little over 3 million in1986 to the over 12 million we have today.

Contrary to republican rhetoric, militarizing the border is the LEAST effective strategy. IRCA militarized the border tremendously, and so did subsequent border-only immigration bills. Border budget has increased many-fold since 1986 with little result. What is needed is a bi-lateral agreement between Mexico and the U.S., not a unilateral solution.

Further, I would love to see Americans doing jobs illegal immigrants do today. My guess is they won’t. The truth is the fields and construction has always been immigrant labor, since the 19th century. Mexicans have been in fields in California since before the 1920s.

murf said:
Tex– Agreed . Crystal Meth has become rampant here in SoCal due to the Mexican drug trade .

The costs of ignoring illegal immigration are mounting every day, yet the WSM (Waste Stream Media) ignores it all, because reporting on it doesn’t fit well into their bias Leftist agenda.

In solidarity with their BIG WSM (Waste Stream Media) counterparts, it’s not just the BIG purveyors within the WSM (Waste Stream Media) that are ignoring the costs of illegal immigration, it’s gotten so bad now that it’s filtered down into the smaller local purveyors within the WSM (Waste Stream Media) too!

Schools, local police, & nearly everyone else, are either forbidden, or heavily pressured to avoid (at almost all costs) reporting on the immigration status of illegal aliens.

Here’s just one example. Last year, an illegal alien shot & killed an on duty under cover Houston, Texas cop (Henry Canales, who was Hispanic in origin) who was investigating criminal activity in a sting operation, & none of the local news outlets immediately reported that the killer & all of his accomplices were illegal aliens, until the cop’s (also Hispanic) wife & many other friends & family members (almost all Hispanic) raised so much Hell about it, the local media finally reported the truth.

The fact that the murderers were all illegal aliens was initially withheld because Houston is a “sanctuary city” and the Mayor (Bill White, who is currently running for Texas governor, of course as a Democrat) told his hand picked Chief of Police to have his Officers stop asking criminals about their immigration status.

But the word got out in this case, after several officers leaked that one of the killers had contacted the Mexican Embassy for help with legal representation. Then, the Mexican diplomats raised Holy Hell about the whole case & insisted that anyone charged with a capital offense (death penalty) crime should be transported to Mexico, for prosecution in Mexico.

Initially, Mexico wouldn’t even officially release any information about their murderous citizens criminal past’, because their murdering citizens have been charged with crimes that could lead to execution, in Texas. But, a Mexican cop quietly released the murderer’s rap sheets, & of course, most of them have been charged & convicted on a list of felony’s as long as your arm, beginning when some of them were just kids.

And, to add insult to injury, there has not been one single mention of this case anywhere on national broadcast TV news. Not one!

Here’s the url to an article about a cop killing illegal immigrant child molester, & his US citizen boss, that will just blow your mind!

http://mensnewsdaily.com/sexandmetro/2010/05/12/businessman-sentenced-for-harboring-illegal-alien-cop-killer/

And the list of this type of thing goes on and on and on, as Mexico & other Latin American countries export not just their unskilled unwanted poor people to the USA (Mexican embassies & several other of their govt agencies actually provide maps & written tips, on how to best cross the border illegally), but their worst criminals too!

Jonathan goe ahead and spit those talking points. [ crack down on the employers, which is essential . ]

Why are you going back Reagan ? The ilegal population was half , what it is now . Like I said before no border solutions offered just more loop holes and excuses .

Build a multi-billion dollar security fence , then we’ll talk .

W

Sorry for the grammar .

NotSoFast missed the point–grizzlies don’t stand up on their hind legs unless they are stuffed. Of course, Trigger is dead and he is stuffed standing up with his front legs in the air. Bears have a lot of speed and protect their cubs by attacking on all four legs.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
The problem was there was essentially no enforcement arm for employers- typical of republican administrations.

Nonsense. The GOP was able to establish the “E-Verify” workplace program, but Democrats have kept it from being mandatory, for years!

I don’t need to refute everything that is false in Jonathan Rodrigues’, or anyone Else’s post here, you can easily do that yourself, here:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageNavigator/issues/illegal_immigration/

And if that link turns out to be so long it doesn’t work here, use this one instead:

http://tinyurl.com/a2f9xs

Sheryn said:
grizzlies don’t stand up on their hind legs unless they are stuffed

Nonsense. Although they aren’t as apt to stand on their two back legs as often as black bears do, they ~stand-up~ all the time & often do so prior to an attack.

Tex- The illegals are welcome here in SoCal and the drug problem have a huge economic effect. Which is widely ignored here. Democrats run this state , what can you expect ?

You are worthless hack Just Tex

Your own link condemns the U.S. Chamber of Commerce for the failure of E-verify.

murf said:
The illegals are welcome here in SoCal and the drug problem have a huge economic effect.

Indeed.

Fox News: We proudly pander to Teabaggers said:
Your own link condemns the U.S. Chamber of Commerce

And so do i.

Fox News: We proudly pander to Teabaggers said:
You are worthless hack Just Tex

When was telling the truth deemed to be “worthless”?

And, didn’t you read my 1st post on this topic? Clearly not.

Just Tex said:
There’s no doubt about it, Reagan got duped. None of the protections built into Simpson-Mazzoli were ever taken seriously.

Not by the Republicans~who want to keep cheap unskilled labor flowing into the country, or the Democrats~who see the extremely impoverished illegal immigrants as potential voters they can bribe into voting D, with pmoises of loads of public assistance.

So, enforcement of illegal immigration has been a scam played by both sides, for decades.

A “hack” only attacks one side. I’m an equal opportunity attacker, even though I only attack the Right when they clearly mess up. And they have on illegal immigration.

murf said:
what can you expect ?

A cut-off of all federal funds, to any govt, govt agency and govt funded entity, that blatantly defies law, including acting in any manner that results in the harboring of illegal aliens.

That’s what I expect.

Fox News Pander : what a troll you are

Msnbc’s Prison porn & crime docs must turn you on .

Just Tex said:
Nonsense. The GOP was able to establish the “E-Verify” workplace program, but Democrats have kept it from being mandatory, for years!

I don’t need to refute everything that is false in Jonathan Rodrigues’, or anyone Else’s post here, you can easily do that yourself, here:

Please do refute my points, not doing so just makes it less fun for all of us. But on E-verify-which has been known to also be faulty and actually “find” people that actually are citizens- it’s not an effective enforcement arm you idiot! Who does that punish? Employer or employee? Meatpackers in north carolina are so dispensable, when some try to organize for better wages, the employers themselves call ICE on them. Do you think that’s fair? To punish the hard working man/woman and let the employer off the hook. E-verify won’t fix the problem. You need a very heavy fine, one that would outweigh the benefits of hiring an illegal worker.

Look. I’m a really reasonable guy. I’m not for categorically open borders or even militarized ones ala Gaza Strip. It’s about being reasonable and actually fair and consistent, rather than just blaming immigrants as the go-to scapegoat. How is illegal immigration the fault for unemployment now, when it was just about at the same level as when unemployment was low? How is it the hard-working man’s fault to try to seek a better life for his family, like many of your own family members did before you. Especially if you’re Jewish, Eastern European, Asian, Irish or Italian you should read up on your history of immigration restrictions to the U.S.- history just repeats itself, this time its Latin Americans.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
But on E-verify-which has been known to also be faulty and actually “find” people that actually are citizens-

Absolutely everything involving technology has it’s “faults” you idiot.

But we still drive cars, rely on smoke detectors, use computers & do everything else with our newer technology, despite a few minor flaws. But, we constantly work to improve our technology too you idiot. That’s how things get better you idiot.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
Meatpackers in north carolina are so dispensable, when some try to organize for better wages, the employers themselves call ICE on them.

That’s a bad thing?

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
Do you think that’s fair?

Life isn’t always fair you idiot. As an example, it’s not fair that my local taxes go WAY up to pay for medical care for illegal aliens. But, I pay my taxes, and work to correct the problem.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
You need a very heavy fine, one that would outweigh the benefits of hiring an illegal worker.

Agreed. you idiot.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
Look. I’m a really reasonable guy. I’m not for categorically open borders or even militarized ones ala Gaza Strip.

Am I supposed to be impressed, because you’re impressed with yourself?? It doesn’t work that way you idiot.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
It’s about being reasonable and actually fair and consistent, rather than just blaming immigrants as the go-to scapegoat.

If that’s so, we should be able to agree on th solutions I spelled out above. you idiot.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
How is illegal immigration the fault for unemployment now, when it was just about at the same level as when unemployment was low?

Do you know any real facts at all? Illegal immigration for employment appears to have dropped dramatically, but we don’t have any accurate numbers just yet. However, illegal immigration for drug mules, sex slaves and other nefarious illegal activities appears to be on the rise, as Mexico’s troubles get worse. you idiot.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
How is it the hard-working man’s fault to try to seek a better life for his family, like many of your own family members did before you. Especially if you’re Jewish, Eastern European, Asian, Irish or Italian you should read up on your history of immigration restrictions to the U.S.- history just repeats itself, this time its Latin Americans.

Part of my family was already here you idiot. The rest came here legally you idiot.

So, now that we have the facts established and the insults aside, feel free to read my earlier post, involving reasonable solutions to this problem.

Then, I’ll be happy to discuss this further.

I can’t see where Palin has improved at all in her interviews, always has that deer in the headlight look, and repeats what the interviewer says. Any time she tries to make a point, it is the same word salad. The only time she is confident is when she is giving a speech for money, and throwing out the red meat insults, that is where she feels strong. I can’t imagine anyone that thinks she could be President of the United States in any serious way. As a woman, Mom, and independent, and seriously worried about our problems in this country–I don’t think she could ever speak for like-minded women.

murf said:
here in Riverside County

Jesus that explains so much…

DonnaK said:
The only time she is confident is when she is giving a speech for money, and throwing out the red meat insults, that is where she feels strong.

Yeah, she doesn’t ad-lib that well.

Kinda like O-Bumble, without his army of speech writers, & trusty teleprompter, no?

Just Tex said:
you idiot.

Here is Jonathan Rodrigues trying to carry on a civil debate. But all you can do is call him an idiot. Is that what the RWers consider a civil debate?

DonnaK said:
I can’t imagine anyone that thinks she could be President of the United States in any serious way.

But, you somehow, you do manage to “think that O-Bumble & Bite Me are qualified?!

Thanks for the good laugh!

the real john t said:
But all you can do is call him an idiot.

Did you bother to read what he wrote to me? Clearly, no.

I’m curious. bang your head alot as a kid? Or has your dysfunctional reading comprehension been brought on by something else?

I’m doing a study, & I’d really like to know that answer…

Just Tex said:
I’m doing a study,

The only study you’re doing is seeing if you can survive by eating dog shit for a year.

BTW TEX, where did Jonathan Rodrigues insult you and call you any names?

the real john t said:
seeing if you can survive by eating dog shit for a year.

If I ever wanted to know anything about something disgusting like that, I’d just ask you & that problem would instantly be solved.

the real john t said:
where did Jonathan Rodrigues insult you

You’re still having that Alzheimer moment? Geez.

Look here.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
But on E-verify-which has been known to also be faulty and actually “find” people that actually are citizens- it’s not an effective enforcement arm you idiot!

Now trundle off to bed, before you get really lost inside a small closet.

Hey John , being an Ohio native how do you feel about Lebron leaving that filthy state ?

I don’t think I have ever seen a television interview where the host has had to lead the guest around by the nose in such a blatant manner. I’m not talking about softball questions, I am talking about SUPPLYING THE QUESTIONS AND THE ANSWERS AT THE SAME TIME! LOLOL
It was the most hilarious thing I have seen this week.
Of course Bill had to do it, it was obvious from the beginning that all he was going to get from that retard was “We need to secure the border”, like that was her sole illegal immigration solution.

Fun stuff.

Hey smurf, how come you never anwsered my email to you? I told you what town and state I lived in. You said you wanted to meet my “pansy ass”. Were you just another tough talking fake vet? I think you are since you didn’t even know what a MOS was and you had to go google one. I found where you googled it from.

murf said:
Hey John , being an Ohio native how do you feel about Lebron leaving that filthy state ?

Who in the hell is Lebron?

Big_F-ing_Deal said:
I don’t think I have ever seen a television interview where the host has had to lead the guest around by the nose

You can’t even tell the difference between when someone’s being led around by the nose, & when someone is constantly being interrupted, even by a buffoon (O’Reilly)?

That’s really sad Mr. Bite-Me.

And with all due respect (which is actually very little), I thought President O-Bumble had you locked up by this time of night?! Did you find a way to escape??

the real john t said:
Who in the hell is Lebron?

Wasn’t that another failed Chrysler product, say, way back in the 1980′s?

I mean, just because his mother spelled it wrong at the hospital late that night, doesn’t mean it wasn’t important to her.

You suppose that’s where someone was conceived?

murf said:
Hey John , being an Ohio native how do you feel about Lebron leaving that filthy state ?

So says the Riverside resident ha ha ha ha ha……

Just Tex said:
3rd grader shit.

*yawn*

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz…….

Mr. Bite-Me said:
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz…….

Quick, somebody call President O-Bumble, looks like the one man gaffe machine army has dozed off, & needs to be secured inside the cage.

Jonathan, if you came here looking for a respectful and civil debate, you’ve come to the wrong place. This comments section is full of extreme ideologues and straight-up assholes. All you’ll get here are ad hominem attacks and partisan talking points. It’s the kind of environment where the informed and respectful are quickly pushed out and only the most extreme jackasses survive.

Cubby said:
This comments section is full of extreme ideologues and straight-up assholes.

Indeed. That explains why you & he are posting here.

And even though my motivations are purely based on benevolence, I’m doing my best to persevere.

Lol, thanks Cubby for the tip. I just don’t understand Just Tex’s multiple claims that I don’t use facts when in fact all my argument is draws from facts that I specifically give examples to and are widely available for anyone with access to google. But in one thing he is right, perhaps I shouldn’t have called him an idiot. But like conservatives, this is a heated issue for me too, but on the side of showing the dignity of these people, not demeaning them as ‘the other’, the ‘illegal’.

But I will try to break up another misconception, the one about blaming (scapegoating once again) undocumented immigrants for tax hikes because of the services they use. Now let’s think for a minute. The income tax, which most do not file in fear is basically the only tax they don’t pay. In fact, many pay taxes at marginal rates much higher than Americans. Of course there is the sales tax, and property tax but also the incredible fact that undocumented immigrants contribute almost $7 billion to social security each year without ever having the prospect of receiving any of it back (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html) . And back to what I said earlier, since they are working low-wage jobs, for the most part they would be receiving refunds, you should thank them lol.

But no, it’s the undocumented worker’s fault. The undocumented immigrant that is too afraid to go to the hospital or the police in fear of being persecuted. Of course there are people that bend the system and abuse it. Of course there are illegal drug smugglers. But the solutions the right wing of our country produces is not simply wrong, they’re not solutions at all. It’s funny how the spectrum has moved so far right, when Reagan did it , it was the right thing to do, when Bush wanted to do it, “amnesty” became a dirty word even if Bush’s program was far from amnesty.

But that’s all I’ll have to say on this board, given the many trolls and the apparent lack of substance. I feel like if we all just read the facts, the real stories of how broken our immigration system is today, perhaps we could come up with reasonable solutions. You can have border security and legalization, they’re not mutually exclusive.

Besides, if we can blame immigrants for all of our problems, we don’t have to solve them. Brilliant plan, ex-former-resigned-drop out-partial term governor of Alaska. Brillo!

Hi King!!!! :)

“O’Reilly, of course, pointed out the obvious, that this wasn’t an ideal situation, and some path to amnesty was necessary because of the sheer number of people involved.”

This is why I think Arizona is on the right track with policing their own illegal immigration problem. When you look at the issue as a federal issue, you are talking about ~12M people. But if each state plays a larger role (as the FED govt. has actually tapped them to do, which is weird, since they are suing AZ for doing something the FEDs have been training states to do anyway…) and the states break down the issue into counties, it seems like the issue of rounding up and/or signing people up for amnesty/work programs would be much more feasible.

O’Reilly checked and “Maricopa County is holding about 1,100 illegal aliens charged with committing violent crimes. That is murder, manslaughter, rape, those kinds of things. The suspected felons are being held until ICE can pick them up. Another 300 are being held in Maricopa on lesser charges.”

So, if one county can round up the illegals committing crimes (beyond the obvious one of being in the US illegally) and just deport them, without having to wait for ICE, it seems much more doable.

Perhaps the answer is state run control, deportation of those who break the law (above and beyond their illegal residency) and a path to citizenship or worker programs for those who are established and law abiding.

I don’t know if Obama’s way of performing job raids, which result in more unemployed is the answer. If they bust them, they are probably better off being deported than being unemployed in America…I would think there is a good possibility that illegals unable to find jobs, who don’t qualify for benefits, might just turn to crime. And that would make the problem even worse.

After demonizing her throughout the entire 2008 campaign, liberals went after Sara Palin with the intent to financially bankrupt her. Funny how she came out on top. She’s a strong lady who stands up for what she believes in and isn’t a thin-skinned complainer like the one in the White House.
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Increase-Penis-Size-Without-Surgery-and-Naturally&id=4633779

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
Further, I would love to see Americans doing jobs illegal immigrants do today. My guess is they won’t. The truth is the fields and construction has always been immigrant labor, since the 19th century. Mexicans have been in fields in California since before the 1920s.

If people think they are too good to work in the hotel, restaurant, construction or farm industry then we need to stop paying welfare and unemployment immediately.

I have worked in all of those areas, except construction. There is NOTHING wrong with any of those jobs and any unemployed person should be happy to get one. If not, we can save a fortune in welfare and unemployment benefits. I am so tired of that argument.

(The hard work might do some people good, too! Maybe then people can have their Coke and Happy Meal…)

Yaaaaawn.. 0321 John

Yeah I got your email, sure.

Kudos to Frances for her good nature.

After all the names and shit that you rightys have heaped on her the fact that she can still treat you civilly is a minor miracle.

You bastards don’t deserve it of course.

Dear Lord,

Please let Sarah Palin win the Republican nomination for President of the United States. And…let her chose one of her “Mamma Grizzleys” as VP.

I love the fact that Sarah and Bill believe that Reagan messed up. I never heard anyone on the say that before on any issue.

on the “right…

valkyrie101 said:
I love the fact that Sarah and Bill believe that Reagan messed up. I never heard anyone on the say that before on any issue.

My impresson exactly – they have spit on God who is Ronald. Truth is, Ronald Reagan wouldn’t spit on them if they were on fire. IF Reagan were alive today he’d be a Democrat having recognized the Repubicans to b bat shit crazy and they used his image to promote their stupidity.

sarainitaly said:
If people think they are too good to work in the hotel, restaurant, construction or farm industry

It’s not that anyone thinks that they are too good to work in these industries, it’s that the employers are not willing to pay citizens and legal aliens minimum wage.

sarainitaly said:
If not, we can save a fortune in welfare and unemployment benefits.

What do you mean by we? By your own addmission, you don’t have a job and you live in a foreign country were you benefit from many free government services including free healthcare.

sarainitaly said:
Jonathan Rodrigues said:
Further, I would love to see Americans doing jobs illegal immigrants do today. My guess is they won’t. The truth is the fields and construction has always been immigrant labor, since the 19th century. Mexicans have been in fields in California since before the 1920s.

If people think they are too good to work in the hotel, restaurant, construction or farm industry then we need to stop paying welfare and unemployment immediately.

JamesA1102 said:
It’s not that anyone thinks that they are too good to work in these industries, it’s that the employers are not willing to pay citizens and legal aliens minimum wage.

then explain Jonathan’s comment…. cuz that’s not what he’s saying.

“employers are not willing to pay citizens and legal aliens minimum wage.” Well, minimum wage happens to be the law, so if you are a legal resident/US citizen, you will be paid minimum wage, at minimum. And it is not true that they are not willing. There are many companies that pay well over minimum, like construction.

“What do you mean by we? By your own addmission, you don’t have a job and you live in a foreign country were you benefit from many free government services including free healthcare.”

Excuse the hell out of me for still considering myself an American. It makes it a lot easier while typing comments to write *we* instead of *you people living in America*. I worked and paid taxes for 20 years, and still have to file for my freelance design work.

Benefit from free govt. services? Like what exactly? I have gone to the doctor once, since living here (8 years), and paid $150 for the Dr. visit, and $75 for a blood test. Wow, that was so FREE! And what other free govt. services am I benefiting from exactly?

Why don’t you address my point, and not get personal?

Bill Adkins said:
My impresson exactly – they have spit on God who is Ronald. Truth is, Ronald Reagan wouldn’t spit on them if they were on fire. IF Reagan were alive today he’d be a Democrat having recognized the Repubicans to b bat shit crazy and they used his image to promote their stupidity.

Ron Jr. says the same thing.

Here’s a novel idea:
Let’s redact U.S. policy on immigration to the exact standards Mexico uses!

…then, once that’s rejected by the Progressive Left, we’ll once again EXPOSE their Rank Hypocrisy & Deceit!

NORBIT Jr. said:
Here’s a novel idea:Let’s redact U.S. policy on immigration to the exact standards Mexico uses! …then, once that’s rejected by the Progressive Left, we’ll once again EXPOSE their Rank Hypocrisy & Deceit!

The Mexican gov’t is run by the elites/Republican types of their nation and who have their boots on the necks of the very people trying to escape that oppression. You ignorantly compare the Mexican gov’t's standards to ours as if they were somehow relevant – they’re not. What’s happening on the border and in Mexico is similar to what was happening in Iraq and when the WMDeception were proven just that, the shifting reasoning was Saddam’s abuses of his people. Well, people are being beheaded and murdered in Mexico but, contrary to what the Republicans claimed in Iraq and going there to ‘save’ them, you would have us tell them to suck it up and deal with it. Never mind that the US drug war fiasco is a major factor as to causation of what’s happening in Mexico. You might try to expose hypocrisy and deceit – I just exposed your ignorance.

Hey Norbit, how about resorting to Indian law? You trespass and we scalp you? Oh, wait, the white people came, brought there guns, violated Indian law, trespassed on Indian land, claimed they were entitled, philosophied about manifest destiny, and rendered the Indian into small internment areas, and all the scalping did not help. On the other hand, you thought you won. But no. Now the natives come to take their land back. And here is the absolutely hilarious thing, in fifty years or so the white people will be in a minority to the natives. And even now, they do not have the votes to stop the “manifest destiny” of native people supremecy in the U.S. LOL.

sarainitaly said:
then explain Jonathan’s comment…. cuz that’s not what he’s saying.

Actually that is exactly what he is saying. Those who employ migrant farm workers are notorious for not paying minimum wage. The same with many construction companies and other employers of illegal aliens. They don’t want to pay minimum wage so they hire illegals instead because they can pay them less.

sarainitaly said:
And it is not true that they are not willing. There are many companies that pay well over minimum, like construction.

Yes big construction companies that build skyscrapers and other major projects. But that is not the whole industry. There are thousands of small companies and contractors who do small projects and hire illegals so they don’t have to pay them minimum wage.

sarainitaly said:
Excuse the hell out of me for still considering myself an American.

There is no excuse for you.

sarainitaly said:
I worked and paid taxes for 20 years,

Well goodie for you. I have worked and paid taxes for 30 year and am still working and paying taxes.

sarainitaly said:
and still have to file for my freelance design work.

Freelance??? And how much of that do you really report? 10%? 15%?

sarainitaly said:
Benefit from free govt. services? Like what exactly?

You mean you’re not protected by the police or drive on the roads or even walk down a street?

sarainitaly said:
I have gone to the doctor once, since living here (8 years), and paid $150 for the Dr. visit, and $75 for a blood test. Wow, that was so FREE!

Can you prove that?

sarainitaly said:
Why don’t you address my point, and not get personal?

Yes your wonderfully compassionate point about saving a “ton of money” on the backs of the unemployed and the poor. Well based on the Federal budget only 1.9% goes to unemployment compensation and only 2.4% goes to social services, which includes education and training as well as welfare. So I’m not sure where this “ton of money” is that you speak of.

http://www.publicagenda.org/files/charts/ff_fedbudget_expenditures.png

Sister Sarah doth defy the messiah? BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!

The employers of illegals do need to be cracked down on. They’re taking advantage of people and providing a lure. But saying that illegals aren’t ‘costing’ us anything, even if it were true, is beside the point. That’s like saying a burglar broke into your house but didn’t take anything. It’s the entry that’s illegal, and no other country on earth simply allows millions of people to enter and remain without going through the proper channels. Securing the border should come before any talk of reform or amnesty.

writer said:
The employers of illegals do need to be cracked down on. They’re taking advantage of people and providing a lure. But saying that illegals aren’t ‘costing’ us anything, even if it were true, is beside the point. That’s like saying a burglar broke into your house but didn’t take anything. It’s the entry that’s illegal, and no other country on earth simply allows millions of people to enter and remain without going through the proper channels. Securing the border should come before any talk of reform or amnesty.

The immigration reform issue and the border issue are part of the same issue and need to be addressed together, with a united strategy.

Jonathan Rodrigues said:
Further, I would love to see Americans doing jobs illegal immigrants do today. My guess is they won’t. The truth is the fields and construction has always been immigrant labor, since the 19th century. Mexicans have been in fields in California since before the 1920s.

JamesA1102 said:
Actually that is exactly what he is saying. Those who employ migrant farm workers are notorious for not paying minimum wage. The same with many construction companies and other employers of illegal aliens. They don’t want to pay minimum wage so they hire illegals instead because they can pay them less.

No, that is absolutely NOT what he said. And yes, companies hire illegals to pay lower than minimum wage. That is illegal. If they were to hire legals they would have to pay minimum wage. So, as a legal hire, you would be paid, at minimum, minimum wage. You wouldn’t be working for lower than minimum wage – so what’s the problem? If someone refuses to accept a job, then I believe they should not have a right to draw welfare or unemployment.

(Kind like how it works when you apply for unemployment – you have to regularly seek work, and if you find a job, you have to accept it…)

Yes big construction companies that build skyscrapers and other major projects. But that is not the whole industry. There are thousands of small companies and contractors who do small projects and hire illegals so they don’t have to pay them minimum wage.

Total BS. Talk to construction company owners. Many hire illegals but would love to hire legals, but no one shows up buy illegals. And again, I say, if people refuse to work in an industry that pays $10-20/hour, they do not have the right to draw welfare or unemployment. (obviously physical limitations excluded).

There is no excuse for you.

Typical reply and totally inappropriate, but as I said, typical. And immature.

Well goodie for you. I have worked and paid taxes for 30 year and am still working and paying taxes.

Well goodie for you, I’m not as old (and bitter) as you.

You mean you’re not protected by the police or drive on the roads or even walk down a street?

That was just stupid. You mean like all those “government freebies” in the US? My husband pays our taxes, just like married couples in the US, and we pay more taxes than in the US.

Can you prove that?

Are you flipping serious? You want my medical records and receipts? I could most definitely prove it, but I am certainly not going to hand over my info to you. Believe it or not, but it is true. What don’t you believe? That I have only been once, or what I paid? Visits to doctor offices are not free, only emergency hospital visits (which is why most people in socialized medicine countries use the ER room as their primary care doctor – because it is free.) Having tests done is not free. You pay fees. And none of it is *free* because you pay for it in higher taxes.

Yes your wonderfully compassionate point about saving a “ton of money” on the backs of the unemployed and the poor. Well based on the Federal budget only 1.9% goes to unemployment compensation and only 2.4% goes to social services, which includes education and training as well as welfare. So I’m not sure where this “ton of money” is that you speak of.

And that has to do with you addressing me personally, about whether I work, etc. is relevant to that how, exactly? My entire point was that if, as Jonathan said, people would not *do those jobs* that illegals do, then we, excuse me, the people of the US, do not need to be paying them welfare and unemployment. If anyone considers themselves too good, or above a job, then they don’t deserve handouts.

That said, I don’t believe, as people like you and Jonathan do, that people “won’t do those jobs”. There is NOTHING wrong with *those*jobs, and there is nothing wrong with a job that pays at least minimum wage.

Safety net programs: About 14 percent of the federal budget in 2010, or $482 billion, will support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

And from your figures, 4.5% of $2.9T is a ton of money.

But no. Now the natives come to take their land back.

Ah, yes. The Spanish natives. Heh.

Pablo said:
Ah, yes. The Spanish natives. Heh.

Oh yea, I forgot, the Mexicans came from Spain. LOL.

the real john t said:
Here is Jonathan Rodrigues trying to carry on a civil debate. But all you can do is call him an idiot. Is that what the RWers consider a civil debate?

Just STFU, you cretin.

valkyrie101 said:
Oh yea, I forgot, the Mexicans came from Spain. LOL.

Yeah, it’s funny how the little things just slip away, ain’t it? But we really should give the Aztecs their land back.

Let’s see, Reagan was duped and Palin is an idiot who can’t answer hard questions.
If she can’t get through and interview will BILL-O, she is going to have real problems when she is interviewed by real journalists. Corporations hire illegals. Corporations wanted and still want an undocumented, willing to take all less than minimum wage bunch of workers here.
Aren’t the Republicans the party that has protected this wave of illegals for more than thirty years? What did Bush do about illegal immigration: NOTHING.
As with everything, the RepubliCONS, tools of the MAN create and exacerbate problems in America, then dump the situations in Democrats’ laps to fix.
Same cycle goes on an on. After eight years of President Obama, they’ll prolly take the country back and continue to flush it down the toilet.

Pablo said:
Yeah, it’s funny how the little things just slip away, ain’t it? But we really should give the Aztecs their land back.

Fool. Mexicans are primarily of native stock, impregnated by a few Spanish colonialists, priests, and drunk cowboys coming down from Texas and Arizona.

What did Clinton do about illegal immigrants? That’s why Arizona is finally taken action. Because neither party has ever done anything.

In fact the federal government has spent billions protecting the border over the years. So to say that neither party has ever done anything is silly. Of course now the tea party conservatives who do not like taxation or regulation want the federal government to spend several billion more. Perhaps tightening the border is a good idea, but the entire immigration situation needs to be debated and a comprehensive immigration reform bill needs to be implemented, not just the band aide of tighter border patrols.

So we ended up with twelve million people here illegally because the feds were on the job. Hate to see how many we’d have if they’d been lax. It’s like the oil spill. The clean up won’t do much good if the flow isn’t stopped first.

I believe the number of illegals entering the U.S. has goine down in recent years. As for the problem, quite obviously strict laws enforced against those who employ illegal aliens, and perhaps a national ID card, are the only way to diminish the supply of illegals entering the U.S. If you can not work, the reasons for risking life and limb to come here will diminish.

The only thing Palin has a “tight” grip on is her vibrator!

valkyrie101 said:
Fool. Mexicans are primarily of native stock, impregnated by a few Spanish colonialists, priests, and drunk cowboys coming down from Texas and Arizona.

What tribes? Tell me, what native groups are still coherent in Mexico today, and what are their numbers? If you have to Google, don’t read this.

Using an estimate of approximately 50 million people in 1492 (including 25 million in the Aztec Empire and 12 million in the Inca Empire), the lowest estimates give a death toll due from disease of an astonishing 80% by the end of the 16th century (8 million people in 1650).[3] Latin America would only recover its 15th century population early in the 20th century; it numbered 17 million in 1800, 30 million in 1850, 61 million in 1900, 105 million in 1930, 218 million in 1960, 361 million in 1980, and 563 million in 2005.[3] In the last three decades of the 16th century, the population of present-day Mexico dropped to about one million people.[3] The Maya population is today estimated at 6 million, which is about the same as at the end of the 15th century, according to some estimates.[3] In what is now Brazil, the indigenous population declined from a pre-Columbian high of an estimated 4 million to some 300,000.

You’ll find your argument all broken and then you’ll have to apologize. And get an education.

Rodriguez, Hernandez, Garcia, Gutierrez, Gonzales, Menendez, Alvarez…

Are those Mayan names or Incan, Val?

valkyrie101 said:
I believe the number of illegals entering the U.S. has goine down in recent years. As for the problem, quite obviously strict laws enforced against those who employ illegal aliens, and perhaps a national ID card, are the only way to diminish the supply of illegals entering the U.S. If you can not work, the reasons for risking life and limb to come here will diminish.

Yes, because there’s less work here, especially in construction, but in other areas as well. As for the rest, you’re quite right, excluding the drug runners.

Pablo said:
Rodriguez, Hernandez, Garcia, Gutierrez, Gonzales, Menendez, Alvarez… Are those Mayan names or Incan, Val?

Jackson, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin – what tribe? —- and you think you have a point, Pablo?

We must not have watched the same Bill O’Reilly segment, Frances. Bill O’Reilly spoonfed her every answer. How many troops? “All of them…as many as it takes,” said Palin, without specifics. Bill O’Reilly proposed that she would finish the fence. Palin never brought it up. She just took the lifeline he handed her to agree with him.

She initially mentioned giving the 12 million illegals in this country a green card, until Bill O’Reilly summarized what she said accurately as constituting amnesty. Then she quickly changed her mind and said to “deport them.” Then she suggested giving them jobs but only after Americans had first crack at those jobs.

Then she starts to invoke Ronald Reagan, as you accurately point out. But she’s going to suggest doing what Reagan did. As soon as O’Reilly says, “But he botched it Governor,” Palin changes her tune and agrees.

The truth is that she had no idea what Reagan’s position was on immigration. She assumed no one else watching would either, so she could just invoke the conservative Saint Reagan and be safe. When O’Reilly said Reagan botched it, she realized Reagan must not have done something right, so she agreed with O’Reilly.

How, by any stretch of the imagination, does this video clip indicate that Palin appears to have a solid grasp on the immigration issue? She offered nothing of substance, grabbed the lifelines O’Reilly threw to her, and was not even familiar with Reagan’s position on immigration.

Palin gets away with all of this because too many in the media are unwilling to put what she says under the scrutiny to which they subject other political figures. She’s obviously a master of regurgitating conservative talking points, but I would expect an intelligent journalist to see through those quite easily.

Pablo said:
What tribes? Tell me, what native groups are still coherent in Mexico today, and what are their numbers? If you have to Google, don’t read this. You’ll find your argument all broken and then you’ll have to apologize. And get an education.

Amigo, let me help you. Before Columbus discovered America, before the Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch, English, etc. came to America, there were people living in America and I am calling those people, “native”. Some native people thereafter got impregnated by the Spanish, English or whoever after they arrived in the sixteenth century. Most, if not all Mexicans, genetically, are mostly native with some European. That is, the largest gene pool sample is native. Of course, like the European Americans, the Spanish and French came as conquorers and soon thereafter the native people who were colonized began calling themselves Garcia, or Fernando.

NORBIT Jr. said:
Here’s a novel idea:
Let’s redact U.S. policy on immigration to the exact standards Mexico uses!

…then, once that’s rejected by the Progressive Left, we’ll once again EXPOSE their Rank Hypocrisy & Deceit!

But, but, but, if the USA used the same immigration laws as Mexico does, even legal immigrants wouldn’t ever be able to vote for O-Bummer, or any other BIG GOVT Hand-Out pandering Lefty pol!

And, illegal immigrants would be charged with felonies, and be tossed into Hell Hole prisons!

So, wouldn’t that defeat the Left’s objectives, for having open borders and amnesty?

To answer myself, yup.

Btw, by the early hours of some of these Lefty posts, it looks like y’all missed church. Again!

So, do all you Leftys have O-Bummer alters set up at home, so you can Worship His Low-Ness while you’re still rambling around in Mom’s basement, wearing just your (stained) underwear?

That must be it…

valkyrie101 said:
Amigo, let me help you. Before Columbus discovered America, before the Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch, English, etc. came to America, there were people living in America and

some of those people were my ancestors. Imagine that!

Pablo said:
Rodriguez, Hernandez, Garcia, Gutierrez, Gonzales, Menendez, Alvarez…

Are those Mayan names or Incan, Val?

Since they were stone age people & didn’t have an alphabet, (or even the wheel & hardened metals) as far as we know they didn’t have surnames.

Which may have worked out well whenever a Noble ordered someone sacrificed (or eaten) the warriors may have just grabbed the 1st person with a similar name.

valkyrie101continues to ignore logical discourse . . .

For all of you who said that this interview was awful and that O’Reilly was basically leading her responses, I AGREE WITH YOU 100%!

When Reagan came up, I was hoping that O’Reilly would keep his mouth shut; but, unfortunately, he had to keep on leading her response and said, “He botched it.” I truly believe that Ms. Palin had no idea that Reagan had made a mistake.

Just Tex said:
Since they were stone age people & didn’t have an alphabet, (or even the wheel & hardened metals) as far as we know they didn’t have surnames. Which may have worked out well whenever a Noble ordered someone sacrificed (or eaten) the warriors may have just grabbed the 1st person with a similar name.

Sure tex. But I am not condemning the conguorers, since indeed, that sort of thing is pretty much how things used to work back then. And yes, the natives were less developed than 1500s Europeans. It was quite natural for the Europeans to conquor the Americas, “manifest destiny” even, as it is for the natives to later reclaim their land. Of course the Americans do not like fence jumpers, but isn’t that pretty much what the Europeans did when they jumped over the feeble fence the Indians put up?

murf said:
Tex– Agreed . Crystal Meth has become rampant here in SoCal due to the Mexican drug trade .

We didn’t HAVE a problem with cocaine or meth until Nixon decided to spray paraquat on the marijuana in Mexico. Dealers were forced to go to Columbia to find marajuana only to discover that they could make more money with a suitcase of coke than with a planeload of pot.

valkyrie101 said:
Amigo, let me help you. Before Columbus discovered America, before the Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch, English, etc. came to America, there were people living in America and I am calling those people, “native”.

What’s left of those people are American citizens. What’s that you said about them coming where to take over? Oh:

Now the natives come to take their land back. And here is the absolutely hilarious thing, in fifty years or so the white people will be in a minority to the natives.

Who then?

Most, if not all Mexicans, genetically, are mostly native with some European.

But Mexicans are mostly Spanish, as I’ve established with some research, which I linked and posted. In fact, Mexico is more European than America is, because they’re very unwelcoming to immigrants.

If you’ve got any evidence to the contrary, this would be a good time for you to present it in rebuttal to the facts I’ve posted. Otherwise, you look like a damned fool just repeating assertions that have been shown to be wrong.

Bill Adkins said:
Jackson, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin – what tribe? —- and you think you have a point, Pablo?

Why, yes. I do, Bill. All those names you list? They’re European, just like the ones I listed.

Pablo said:
But Mexicans are mostly Spanish, as I’ve established with some research, which I linked and posted. In fact, Mexico is more European than America is, because they’re very unwelcoming to immigrants.
If you’ve got any evidence to the contrary, this would be a good time for you to present it in rebuttal to the facts I’ve posted. Otherwise, you look like a damned fool just repeating assertions that have been shown to be wrong.

According to your standard, since you state that what you say is “factual”, present “some research”.. Your thesis does not seem reasonable since Mexicans are often mistaken for Indians.

This is getting serious because the Spanish are genetically linked to the Moors, who ruled Spain for a while. They were aggressive Islamics from Northern Africa. During the time of Islamic rule of Spain, there was lots of inter-breeding going on between the heathens and the infidels. No telling how many Spanish woman were ravaged by curved sword swinging Islamic men. Now the bastard offspring of all that comes to America, impregnates the natives, and stands at our door as a horde that will one day overcome us. The Ayatollah is upon us, we are doomed. May Allah have mercy on our souls.*

valkyrie101 said:
According to your standard, since you state that what you say is “factual”, present “some research”

I already did, namely pointing to where 80% of native Mexicans died in the late 16th century. Further, Mexican repopulation was hugely driven by the Spanish, and the vast majority of Mexicans have Spanish blood. Indigenous Mexicans are approximately 10-20% of the population.

That said, which indigenous Mexicans have claim to what is now American soil? Being that that was my original question, it would be nice if you addressed it.

No telling how many Spanish woman were ravaged by curved sword swinging Islamic men.

Not to mention Sicilians.

Sarah Palin is having trouble with her stories. She goes to the Bowling Convention and says that as a child, she remembers her Dad playing on a bowling league in Idaho. Caught in a lie–se was less than one year old with this memory. Then she endorses a candidate against Harry Reid–but Dumbo doesn’t know how to spell the candidate’s first name. She runs on a platform of being a strong Christian but her language is coarse and vulgar–full of references to sh*it and As”ses etc. It has been a long time since this hypocrite has been inside a church–and she lies repeatedly in her book. Sarah worships seeing her name in the news and the Almighty Dollar–and she will do ot say anything to keep the dough pouring in.

Pablo said:
I already did, namely pointing to where 80% of native Mexicans died in the late 16th century. Further, Mexican repopulation was hugely driven by the Spanish, and the vast majority of Mexicans have Spanish blood. Indigenous Mexicans are approximately 10-20% of the population. That said, which indigenous Mexicans have claim to what is now American soil? Being that that was my original question, it would be nice if you addressed it.

OK, Pablo, one more time: The native people are the people that lived in America, the New World, north and south, all by themselves. No white men around. Those native people owned the land, in much the same way that white people own it today. Everyone living in America, in those days, all the natives, were all related to each other, representing various tribes that had settled in the land from the North Pole down to and including the Antarctic. All the native people living in America were descendents of those men who migrated to America, during the last ice age, across what is now the Barring Straight, from pre-communist Asia, 15,000 years ago or so. That is why native Americans look so much like Asians. So the native Mexican, of those who have no Spanish blood, or those with just a little Spanish blood, or even those who have a lot of Spanish blood, or even Spaniards who have even a little Mexican blood are all cousins. Thus, Mexicans at the door is like native Indian at the door (since they are cousins) and Asia at the door, Spain at the door, the Moors at the door, the Islamics at the door. This all seems so dire. Obama, close that border.

valkyrie101 said:
Sure tex. But I am not condemning the conguorers, since indeed, that sort of thing is pretty much how things used to work back then.

Yup.

valkyrie101 said:
And yes, the natives were less developed than 1500s Europeans. It was quite natural for the Europeans to conquor the Americas, “manifest destiny” even,

Yup.

valkyrie101 said:
as it is for the natives to later try to steal land from a society that still far more advanced than their own.

Fixed that one for you.

valkyrie101 said:
Of course the Americans do not like fence jumpers,

Nope.

valkyrie101 said:
but isn’t that pretty much what the Europeans did when they jumped over the feeble fence the Indians put up?

Why would you even try to compare the two?

Was there some warfare? Yes. Did it last long? No. Native peoples learned very fast it’s by far better to try to get along with an advanced culture, than to fight it.

The Karankawas in Texas (the Giant cannibal Gulf Coast Native tribe) were so used to being victorious in battle with all other natives, due to their fierce cannibalism & their enormous size, they couldn’t bring themselves to adapt & work with the Europeans. So eventually, once the Spaniards concluded they wouldn’t ever comply with any treaty, they were wiped out.

With few exceptions, Europeans were embraced, because of their advanced technology.

And why not? If you had been a stone age person living that extremely short & hard life, wouldn’t you want to trade your stuff for better stuff? Sure! Natives traded land, labor, food & everything else for metal pots, pans, knives, saws, medicines & all kinds of other things, that were impossible for you to make for themselves?!

That’s how real progress is made, & works best. More often than not, through voluntary exchanges, not heavy handed force.

.

valkyrie101 said:
Your thesis does not seem reasonable since Mexicans are often mistaken for Indians.

Clearly, you’ve never been to Mexico city. It’s ruling & moneyed class are mostly very light skinned Anglos, & they openly discriminate in an increasing cast type of system, based on skin color & if the person has enhanced Native features.

Don’t you people learn anything worthwhile or real anymore? Or travel outside of this country? The world is a harsh place, filled with prejudice & injustice.

You’re very fortunate to be able to live right here, where most prejudice is more a fantasy, than a reality.

valkyrie101 said:
All the native people living in America were descendents of those men who migrated to America, during the last ice age

Nope. There were already people in the Americas, & as far as know most were spread throughout Central & South America. Many, if not most, were very dark, smallish, had very distinct features, & were what we would call today, pygmy type people.

OK, Pablo, one more time: The native people are the people that lived in America, the New World, north and south, all by themselves.

All one big happy one world family from Russia, then? Ah….hahahahahaha. You’re funny, val.

valkyrie101 said:
OK, Pablo, one more time: The native people are the people that lived in America, the New World, north and south, all by themselves. No white men around. Those native people owned the land, in much the same way that white people own it today. Everyone living in America, in those days, all the natives, were all related to each other, representing various tribes that had settled in the land from the North Pole down to and including the Antarctic. All the native people living in America were descendents of those men who migrated to America, during the last ice age, across what is now the Barring Straight, from pre-communist Asia, 15,000 years ago or so. That is why native Americans look so much like Asians. So the native Mexican, of those who have no Spanish blood, or those with just a little Spanish blood, or even those who have a lot of Spanish blood, or even Spaniards who have even a little Mexican blood are all cousins. Thus, Mexicans at the door is like native Indian at the door (since they are cousins) and Asia at the door, Spain at the door, the Moors at the door, the Islamics at the door. This all seems so dire. Obama, close that border.

The term Obtuse is illustrated with a photograph of Pablo.

Rogue-Comic said:
valkyrie101continues to ignore logical discourse . . .

Whose? Yours? Can’t ignore the non-existent.

That’s a hell of an argument you make there, Bill. Your best stuff, no doubt.

Pablo said:
That’s a hell of an argument you make there, Bill. Your best stuff, no doubt.

My best stuff? No – why waste it on you. I’ve read your thread with Val, at first I thought you were acting stupid – but then it became more than apparent it was no act.

Moderate said:
“what she would do with the 12 million illegals.”

Business want to keep them as cheap labor, Democrats want them as more poor ignorant voters. No politician has a decent answer.

Cut off the slave labor jobs and they will deport themselves. A local tire store here now has all none English speaking labor force and they are still the most expensive store in town.

Some say the only help they can get don’t speak English ,what about it?

Fabulous ad hominem, Bill. You’re unstoppable! A veritable dynamo of debate, you are.

She is so good at repeating the answer O”Reilly gives her. This woman is a genius, pure genius. Real journalism at FOX NOISE CHANNEL.

sarainitaly said:
No, that is absolutely NOT what he said.

Well, then I guess you are both wrong.

sarainitaly said: And yes, companies hire illegals to pay lower than minimum wage. That is illegal. If they were to hire legals they would have to pay minimum wage. So, as a legal hire, you would be paid, at minimum, minimum wage. You wouldn’t be working for lower than minimum wage – so what’s the problem?

The problem is many companies hire illegals so that they don’t have to pay minimum wage and don’t hire citizens because they want cheap labor.

sarainitaly said: If someone refuses to accept a job, then I believe they should not have a right to draw welfare or unemployment.

Which is exactly how the system works now.

sarainitaly said:
Total BS. Talk to construction company owners. Many hire illegals but would love to hire legals, but no one shows up buy illegals.

The total BS is that you have ever talked to construction company owners in America. Do they make special trip to Italy to discuss their labor problems with you?

If they would love to hire citizens and legal aliens then they would offer at least minimum wage. Most big construction companies use union workers so wages & benefits are not a problem. The only companies that have no one but illegals show up are the companies that don’t want to pay minimum wage.

sarainitaly said:
And again, I say, if people refuse to work in an industry that pays $10-20/hour, they do not have the right to draw welfare or unemployment. (obviously physical limitations excluded).

Which is currently how the system works so you shouldn’t have an issue with it.

sarainitaly said:
Typical reply and totally inappropriate, but as I said, typical. And immature.

Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

sarainitaly said:
Well goodie for you, I’m not as old (and bitter) as you.

Could have fooled me.

sarainitaly said:
That was just stupid. You mean like all those “government freebies” in the US? My husband pays our taxes, just like married couples in the US, and we pay more taxes than in the US.

Maybe stupid but the truth. Plus Italy has free healthcare.

sarainitaly said:
Are you flipping serious? You want my medical records and receipts? I could most definitely prove it, but I am certainly not going to hand over my info to you. Believe it or not, but it is true. What don’t you believe? That I have only been once, or what I paid? Visits to doctor offices are not free, only emergency hospital visits (which is why most people in socialized medicine countries use the ER room as their primary care doctor – because it is free.) Having tests done is not free. You pay fees. And none of it is *free* because you pay for it in higher taxes.

Well if you’re going to make claims you should be prepared to back them up with some evidence. And knowing your track record I take anything you claim with a grain of salt.

And I wonder how much those higher taxes compare to the cost of you having to buy Health Insurance if you were living in the U.S. instead of Italy.

sarainitaly said:
And that has to do with you addressing me personally, about whether I work, etc. is relevant to that how, exactly?

It just goes to you’re level of hypocrisy which is increasing at an exponential rate.

sarainitaly said:
My entire point was that if, as Jonathan said, people would not *do those jobs* that illegals do, then we, excuse me, the people of the US, do not need to be paying them welfare and unemployment. If anyone considers themselves too good, or above a job, then they don’t deserve handouts.

And your entire point is a complete BS strawman argument. The reason companies hire illegals is because they don’t want to pay minimum wage. They want cheap labor.

And anyone who refuses reasonable employment do not get welfare or unemployment. I’m not saying that there aren’t a few cheats here and there but on the whole that’s how the system works. Maybe if you actually lived in the U.S. you would know that.

sarainitaly said:
That said, I don’t believe, as people like you and Jonathan do, that people “won’t do those jobs”. There is NOTHING wrong with *those*jobs, and there is nothing wrong with a job that pays at least minimum wage.

Well there I agree with you. The problem is not that people won’t do those jobs, the problem is companies that don’t want to pay minimum wage so they hire illegals instead.

sarainitaly said:
Safety net programs: About 14 percent of the federal budget in 2010, or $482 billion, will support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258 And from your figures, 4.5% of $2.9T is a ton of money.

So now you’re including all safety net programs including housing & education assistance that goes to low & middle class households where people are working as well as programs that assist poor children and the elderly. So following your original point to a logical conclusion, I guess you are suggesting putting children and old people to work doing all those jobs that illegals are hired for now.

JamesA1102 says:
July 12, 2010 at 12:05 am

James, you are denying the very truth that people continuously make the claim that illegals do the jobs that Americans *won’t do*. Which was the very foundation of my original post to Jonathan.

Yes, companies hire illegals, because they can get away with playing less than minimum wage. But, were legal people to work in those jobs, and the illegality of hiring illegals was enforced, companies would have to hire legals. THEREFORE they would HAVE to pay at minimum, legal wages. Allowing them to get away with hiring illegals and paying substandard wage is not acceptable. Especially if legal American residents could hold those jobs, and get off welfare and unemployment.

If illegals fill ~12 Million jobs (I don’t know the exact figures), but we both agree that Americans would in fact do those jobs, why are we allowing ~12M illegals to live in America, and *take* the jobs that legal American residents would in fact fill? Why are we paying welfare and unemployment to millions of Americans that would and could fill those jobs currently filled by illegal workers?

Italy does not have *free* healthcare, just like universal care in America would not be free.

“The total BS is that you have ever talked to construction company owners in America. Do they make special trip to Italy to discuss their labor problems with you?

If they would love to hire citizens and legal aliens then they would offer at least minimum wage. Most big construction companies use union workers so wages & benefits are not a problem. The only companies that have no one but illegals show up are the companies that don’t want to pay minimum wage.”

Why are you incapable of having a discussion without making comments like that? I have had discussions with construction owners on line, in forums similar to this, when discussing immigration. I discussed with a few owners down in the NO area who agreed that they would love to hire legals, and not deal with the illegal hiring worry, and they pay good wage, but no one but illegals answer their ads. And the ones I talked to paid between $10-20/hour. And my thought was why are there so many people out of work down there, but no one shows up to work?

The system is supposed to work how we both agreed (work, or lose your welfare/unemployment), but it doesn’t, obviously, if we have high unemployment, and a lot of people on welfare, but ~12M people living and working illegally in America.

“So following your original point to a logical conclusion, I guess you are suggesting putting children and old people to work doing all those jobs that illegals are hired for now.”

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. please. Taking all of the Safety net programs, obviously there are some that are unavoidable, but there are some that are linked to the care of people on welfare or unemployment, that would not be needed, or lessened, were those people employed.

O’Reilly is a pinhead. The path to citizenship for illegal aliens should be the same as EVERYONE else, including my wife. They can apply for permanent resident status and then for citizenship 5 years later. It is an insult to everyone that went through the LEGAL process to reward these illegal invaders.

Dude, I happen to know plenty of people in rural Texas who, not only will, but DO, those agricultural jobs for 8 and hour… your talking point has already been shot down in the past.  Illegals also like to 1. Pack up to 16 or more people in a one bedroom apartment (personally seen this as a maintainence man), 2. Drink and drive, commit hit and runs and overall disregard for any road laws.  3. Degrade any neighborhood they move in to something mirroring the “neighborhoods” in Mexico that they left.  4. ETC….