Some of the best comedy in years …!

So Comedy Central and Stephen had no problem with Rachel Maddow misleading her MSNBC audience with her sophistry (thanks Tommy) on who contitutes the “highest” 10 donors to GOP and Dems or her sophestry (thanks Tommy) on the WI budget shortfall. But they DO have a problem with Bill running a clip that had been clearly labeled? Got it…

I am glad the youth of America are growing up watching Stephen Colbert and John Stewart, so that they will have a proper appreciation for the sleazy conduct of Fox News.

“While the intent may not have been to mislead, more care could have been taken to ensure that no one could have been misled.” Exactly.

valkyrie101 said:
“While the intent may not have been to mislead, more care could have been taken to ensure that no one could have been misled.” Exactly.

You might want to enlighten Maddow on that very thought.

Bam… a little knowledge for the low hanging fruit that inhabit this site… Enjoy!!

The Silver: Somebody named Joe Bershad, at the largest bad media site extant, the execrable Mediaite. It has been bashed since its inception as another reactionary, right-leaning dog’s breakfast that ultimately serves merely as a kind of internet hairpiece to cover its founder’s vendettas and personal dislikes.

In point of fact, from day one, Mediaite has been a safe house for morons.

Mr. Bershad addresses the subject of the eject-milk-out-your-nose-funny Fixed News deception last night on The O’Reilly Propaganda Factor (see screen grab at “Snappy Answers” on this site). O’Reilly was debriefing ‘reporter’ Mike Tobin about the ‘violent’ protests by liberals and union members in Wisconsin. B-roll marked “Union Protests” was rolled. The video showed guys in summer or at least spring clothing, shoving other guys. A row of palm trees was visible, screen right.

Mr. Bershad actually writes:

While, in the 43-second clip that’s being linked to on YouTube, it does look like Fox News lied, but watching the entire segment for context makes it clear that they did not…Taken out of context, these few seconds would seem deceptive. But, if you’d already seen the full segment, you’d recognize what the footage was (besides, this same clip has aired on other Fox News programs like Glenn Beck and been identified as coming from California). Further, the protest footage from Wisconsin is clearly labeled “Madison” as well as date and time stamped, while the “palm tree footage” is labeled “Union Protests.” Confusing? Not really, though if one were to simply see the 43-second clip on YouTube, one could reasonably raise their eyebrows. A reminder of the importance of context.

Actually, it’s a reminder of the importance of not letting children operate media websites. The writer is arguing that if you already knew that the video wasn’t from Wisconsin, why, then, when you saw it, you’d know the video wasn’t from Wisconsin! That, Mr. Dimbulb, is the entire point: if I did a segment on O’Reilly’s personal life and showed video of hookers, porn stars, and falafels, with the label “Things Men Cheat With,” the idea would be to compensate for the fact that there is no such video of O’Reilly nor any video evidence connecting him to those people or things. The “Palm Tree” video was run so it could mitigate against the fact that there has not been violence in the Wisconsin protests.

It is an essential element of propaganda, and Mr. Berstad’s piece renders him the most naive of some pretty gullible folks at a site that has been as unsuccessful as understanding how television works as its founder was, or as a pure – albeit not very good – Fox apologist.

He might as well have argued that the video was appropriate because some time in the ancient past – and perhaps with climate change, again in the near future – Wisconsin actually had some palm trees. – K.O.

It amazes me that Stewart and Colbert only ever seen to notice this sort of thing when it comes from Fox. Somehow they miss the other daily examples from networks like ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, PBS, CNN and pretty much any network that tows the left wing line.

Lou Sarah said:
Bam… a little knowledge for the low hanging fruit that inhabit this site… Enjoy!! The Silver: Somebody named Joe Bershad, at the largest bad media site extant, the execrable Mediaite. It has been bashed since its inception as another reactionary, right-leaning dog’s breakfast that ultimately serves merely as a kind of internet hairpiece to cover its founder’s vendettas and personal dislikes. In point of fact, from day one, Mediaite has been a safe house for morons. Mr. Bershad addresses the subject of the eject-milk-out-your-nose-funny Fixed News deception last night on The O’Reilly Propaganda Factor (see screen grab at “Snappy Answers” on this site). O’Reilly was debriefing ‘reporter’ Mike Tobin about the ‘violent’ protests by liberals and union members in Wisconsin. B-roll marked “Union Protests” was rolled. The video showed guys in summer or at least spring clothing, shoving other guys. A row of palm trees was visible, screen right. Mr. Bershad actually writes: While, in the 43-second clip that’s being linked to on YouTube, it does look like Fox News lied, but watching the entire segment for context makes it clear that they did not…Taken out of context, these few seconds would seem deceptive. But, if you’d already seen the full segment, you’d recognize what the footage was (besides, this same clip has aired on other Fox News programs like Glenn Beck and been identified as coming from California). Further, the protest footage from Wisconsin is clearly labeled “Madison” as well as date and time stamped, while the “palm tree footage” is labeled “Union Protests.” Confusing? Not really, though if one were to simply see the 43-second clip on YouTube, one could reasonably raise their eyebrows. A reminder of the importance of context. Actually, it’s a reminder of the importance of not letting children operate media websites. The writer is arguing that if you already knew that the video wasn’t from Wisconsin, why, then, when you saw it, you’d know the video wasn’t from Wisconsin! That, Mr. Dimbulb, is the entire point: if I did a segment on O’Reilly’s personal life and showed video of hookers, porn stars, and falafels, with the label “Things Men Cheat With,” the idea would be to compensate for the fact that there is no such video of O’Reilly nor any video evidence connecting him to those people or things. The “Palm Tree” video was run so it could mitigate against the fact that there has not been violence in the Wisconsin protests. It is an essential element of propaganda, and Mr. Berstad’s piece renders him the most naive of some pretty gullible folks at a site that has been as unsuccessful as understanding how television works as its founder was, or as a pure – albeit not very good – Fox apologist. He might as well have argued that the video was appropriate because some time in the ancient past – and perhaps with climate change, again in the near future – Wisconsin actually had some palm trees. – K.O.

This coming from the a$$hole at MSNBC that edited a clip to obscure the color of a Tea Party member… while MSNBC used that video clip of a black man to attack white people. Nice try Keith.

tatboy said:
You might want to enlighten Maddow on that very thought.

Since when has Maddow been unintentionally misleading?

Tommy – nice post. Just wanted to add, in addition to the good points you and Jon both made regarding this nontroversy, including that all of the WI video is labeled as such, but, at the very moment Tobin starts talking about California (around 4:10) the tape rolling is from Sacramento. And the tape is labeled only as Union Protests – not WI protests.

So, he was discussing California as the tape being shown was from California.

The Left is focusing on this and ignoring the actual violence that is occurring on the tapes. It is much easier for them to start screaming FOX LIES FOX LIES instead of focusing on the VIOLENCE as shown in the videos. They are doing it in this case, and the one for Tobin, and I’m sure it will happen with the video of the Republican senator being chased, as well. It doesn’t matter if this is happening in WI or CA – it is happening around the country, and the people getting violent are the Union members and supporters.

The only people *misled* by this are people who are listening to Colbert, Boehlert – those who are allowing themselves to be *misled* instead of focusing on the real issue.

Big fat distractions….

Lou Sarah said:
The Silver: Somebody named Joe Bershad, at the largest bad media site extant, the execrable Mediaite. It has been bashed since its inception as another reactionary, right-leaning dog’s breakfast that ultimately serves merely as a kind of internet hairpiece to cover its founder’s vendettas and personal dislikes.

oh my GAWD, quit spamming mediate with this keith olbermann garbage!

BadGenome said:
Since when has Maddow been unintentionally misleading?

Unintentionally… never. Intentionally…. always.

tatboy said:
Unintentionally… never. Intentionally…. always.

Precisely.

sarainitaly said:
The only people *misled* by this are people who are listening to Colbert, Boehlert – those who are allowing themselves to be *misled* instead of focusing on the real issue.
Big fat distractions….

Actually, if you lived in America and if you had friends across the politicl spectrum, you’d know that the Palm Trees in Madison motif was discussed before anyone in the media commented upon it. Because of Tobin’s assault fakery, I watched this segment. My wife and I were in stitches. Both of my sisters called. It was a topic of amusement at my office and my wife’s school the next day. My neighbor and I had a beer the next afternoon, and we discussed it. There is far less dependency or addiction to the media by moderates, progressives and liberals, and conservatives who are not of the extreme right persuasion, than you seem to indicate. In fact, the addictive behaviors are largely those of the extreme rightists.

tatboy said:
You might want to enlighten Maddow on that very thought.

When you are doing a story about Wisconsin protestors, doesn’t it seem a little dishonest to be showing videos of some other unrelated protests? Of course they were not part of the same segment, etc., but it is more likely than not that Fox (not necessarily Bill) intended to confuse its viewers with its stock anti-union montage on what was going on in Wisconsin. Either you approve of that or not, Maddow has nothing to do with it.

The author sayx, “every Fox News reporter I know, who, despite the leanings of the network’s opinion hosts, practice journalism cleanly and honestly.”…………………

Am assuming you said this with a straight face, without a wink, a grimace, a smirk?

Just a little word about how filming is actually done. At our last commercial shoot, we had two cameramen. One shot the main action, while the second either shot the same action from a different perspective, or shot people reacting to what they were seeing. But it was all done at the same location. Sometimes, if the weather is bad, we might go back and shoot new action at the same location. But in no case would we pull video footage shot somewhere else and use it, or refer to it as B-roll footage.

According to wikipedia:

Originally: “These “A and B” rolls functioned equally to make blind splices, fades, and dissolves possible.”

Then came tape decks: “Traditionally, the tape decks in an edit suite were labelled by letter, with the ‘A’ deck being the one containing the main tape upon which the interview material was shot. The ‘B’ deck was used to run tapes that held additional footage that often supported comments or descriptions made by the interview subject.”

And finally we have camera crews: “Other historical references to the term relate back to traditional camera naming conventions. The ‘A’ camera and crew ran the main interview camera while the ‘B’ camera and crew typically shot the additional support material.”

I know it’s tough for people who are so personally invested in their own reality, but to say that Fox rolled “B-Roll footage” from around the country when a reporter was talking about being punched in Madison is a completely false definition of what B-Roll footage is, and extremely misleading.

The argument that if one sees it in context is the legal refuge of those who seek to gain an advantage with their misrepresentation of reality. The whole point of video and audio is that we assume the two parts are talking about the same thing. When the two don’t match on purpose, either we are watching an attempt at humor or a willful distortion of reality.

The fact that Fox did not show the actual footage of the alleged assault on the reporter is damning enough. But to have to jump through hoops to explain why the coverage wasn’t a lie says more about Fox’s problems with accuracy than any accusation made against them.

Terry Woodburn said:
The author sayx, “every Fox News reporter I know, who, despite the leanings of the network’s opinion hosts, practice journalism cleanly and honestly.”…………………

Am assuming you said this with a straight face, without a wink, a grimace, a smirk?

Or, was it said to audition for one of the slots opening up at F#X, now that they’re clearing out SOME would-be candidates for Pres.?

So who is more dishonest here, O’Reilly or Colbert?

First, the whole idea of “cover over context” is a brilliant one, if you also think that O’Reilly KNEW that a palm tree in the back of a clip would cause controversy- but I’d laugh in the face of any lunatic who would suggest that, because if he knew that then he could have just as easily labeled the clip or not used it at all.

So therefore it stands to reason that the only premeditation in deceit comes from Colbert.

Oh wait though, its “satire” not deceit. I forgot sorry.

valkyrie101 said:
When you are doing a story about Wisconsin protestors, doesn’t it seem a little dishonest to be showing videos of some other unrelated protests? Of course they were not part of the same segment, etc., but it is more likely than not that Fox (not necessarily Bill) intended to confuse its viewers with its stock anti-union montage on what was going on in Wisconsin. Either you approve of that or not, Maddow has nothing to do with it.

No… I don’t approve of it. I didn’t approve of Dan Rather always running stock footage of fully automatic guns while doing a story about gun violance. VERY DISHONEST. And Maddow and the histroy of the MSM does have to do with this story as it shows a bias toward Fox News by Comedy Central and it’s writters. What… am I supposed to ignore their inconsistancey in their outrage???

THE REAL ROYAL KING said:
Actually, if you lived in America and if you had friends across the politicl spectrum, you’d know that the Palm Trees in Madison motif was discussed before anyone in the media commented upon it. Because of Tobin’s assault fakery, I watched this segment. My wife and I were in stitches. Both of my sisters called. It was a topic of amusement at my office and my wife’s school the next day. My neighbor and I had a beer the next afternoon, and we discussed it. There is far less dependency or addiction to the media by moderates, progressives and liberals, and conservatives who are not of the extreme right persuasion, than you seem to indicate. In fact, the addictive behaviors are largely those of the extreme rightists.

Hold on, you claim you are LESS addicted to the media than conservatives?

It sounds like you watch Fox more than a conservative- By your own account you spoke to every human being youve ever been in contact with in your life about the palm tree thing. LOL.

You also stalk posts on Mediaite, often being the first commenter. Obsess much?

Yeah, your not an addict though. You and Charlie Sheen, clean as a whistle.

valkyrie101 said:
When you are doing a story about Wisconsin protestors, doesn’t it seem a little dishonest to be showing videos of some other unrelated protests? Of course they were not part of the same segment, etc., but it is more likely than not that Fox (not necessarily Bill) intended to confuse its viewers with its stock anti-union montage on what was going on in Wisconsin. Either you approve of that or not, Maddow has nothing to do with it.

At least Bill had previously tagged the video in his segmant and described exactly what it was. Dan NEVER did… nor has Maddow clarified her error to this day.

You know why the palm tree thing wont get any traction, except with you liberal sycophants?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI

This is why. If you want to attack O’Reilly but are silent on MSNBC and their far more audacious clip of editing (on their ‘hard news’ segment no less) Then sorry but you have zero credibility. Your arent going to win hearts and minds over by being a hypocrite.

If you can’t even convince Tommy Christopher, then who can you convince?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwg-f3dqN4&feature=related

Greg Gutfeld nails it if you want the full context, something you wouldnt get by watching MSNBC alone.

Tommy, this is just plain misleading: “…footage of Wisconsin protesters angrily reacting to Tobin in one of several incidents where the reporter was shouted down, and even hit. Fox-baiter Eric Boehlert of Media Matters has tried to suggest that Tobin may have exaggerated because Fox hasn’t aired footage of the actual attack, but as extraneous video shows, such footage would consist entirely of protesters blocking the camera.”

You report that he was hit when we didn’t see any footage. Then you said that extraneous video would only show protesters blocking the cameras. Then you attack the credibility of someone from Media Matters, proving your own biases.

The objective thing to report would be to address the question of whether Tobin was hit or pushed, the force used, and whether Tobin’s reaction was an exaggeration.

Here’s the clip on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnx9p6i9L_Q

If you examine the clip closely, you will find at :46 a woman with a red santa hat reaches from behind Tobin makes the subtlest movement with her arm and what looks like the extended finger of her hand. She is then pulled away by someone else who saw what she did.

We also see that Tobin is standing completely still, so the alleged blow didn’t even disrupt his balance. Tobin’s tone of voice does not change.

We see Tobin looking back to his left to point out the guy that “hit” him, so there is no doubt the action comes from his left side, not a punch from his right side which was obscured by signs. The guy behind him with the brown knit hat who was accused of hitting him never moves his head, shoulders or arms the whole time. Nor does he react with any emotion at being singled out as the attacker, because he is clearly innocent.

So, did Tobin report accurately? Well, unless the old woman in the Santa Hat was a transvestite, no “guy” hit him. That she used an extended index finger instead of a fist, the only way she could hit him would be if she was a master of the praying mantis school of kung fu.

To be accurate, perhaps he could have said someone poked him. But to call that being hit or punched seems like a huge exaggeration in my opinion.

Take a look at the clip and see for yourself.

Since everyone is on the subject of looking at the context of Fox’s reporting, perhaps we would get a better idea of how accurate and unbiased Tobin is as a reporter by looking at the body of his work.

tatboy said:
No… I don’t approve of it. I didn’t approve of Dan Rather always running stock footage of fully automatic guns while doing a story about gun violance. VERY DISHONEST

I totally agree with that. Not just Dan Rather, but frequently, all over the place.

So MEDIAITE doesn’t have a problem with showing this clip during a discussion of Wisconsin? Why have that clip at all of the intent was on the straight up-and-up. Colbert had it right. And I like the segment on the prank calls. You see, Walker was caught saying some pretty damning things, now they’re ready to pass a law so that a Republican can’t get caught in the future saying OTHER pretty damning things.

BruinAlum77 said:
You report that he was hit when we didn’t see any footage. Then you said that extraneous video would only show protesters blocking the cameras. Then you attack the credibility of someone from Media Matters, proving your own biases.

No, Tobin reported that he was hit, and I see no reason to doubt him from that tape. I watched it very closely, and it just isn’t conclusive. There is a strong case to be made that the contact was incidental to someone trying to reach out to the camera, but that’s not inconsistent with what Tobin said, anyway.

Maybe I missed some other tape, but I also haven’t heard Tobin “play up” the “assault” (other Fox personalities have), and aside from saying “That guy just hit me” when it happened, his descriptions (the ones I have seen) have been mild.

Boehlert’s construct is idiotic and yellow. I didn’t stand for it when Andrew Breitbart did it, not gonna stand for it now.,

Lou Sarah said:
In point of fact, from day one, Mediaite has been a safe house for morons.

Of course, why do you think you are here. The vote was taken and you are one of the leading morons.

sarainitaly said:
Tommy – nice post. Just wanted to add, in addition to the good points you and Jon both made regarding this nontroversy, including that all of the WI video is labeled as such, but, at the very moment Tobin starts talking about California (around 4:10) the tape rolling is from Sacramento. And the tape is labeled only as Union Protests – not WI protests.

So, he was discussing California as the tape being shown was from California.

The Left is focusing on this and ignoring the actual violence that is occurring on the tapes. It is much easier for them to start screaming FOX LIES FOX LIES instead of focusing on the VIOLENCE as shown in the videos. They are doing it in this case, and the one for Tobin, and I’m sure it will happen with the video of the Republican senator being chased, as well. It doesn’t matter if this is happening in WI or CA – it is happening around the country, and the people getting violent are the Union members and supporters.

The only people *misled* by this are people who are listening to Colbert, Boehlert – those who are allowing themselves to be *misled* instead of focusing on the real issue.

Big fat distractions….

lol @ u….clearly youre one of the morons keith was referring to …..too bad you have to defend all the rightwing bs so you wont have to admitt to the world and yourself how gullible and stupid you are….baggers like you are sickening to me……you think like a 2 year old…..the education system must have really failed in your case….bad homeschooling i suppose…its time for you crossburners to wake up and smell the coffee b4 Obama is forced to FEMAcamp all of your dumb asses

gordonbloyershow said:
Of course, why do you think you are here. The vote was taken and you are one of the leading morons.

redface……sir you are a idiot………you by far are the dumbest moron on this site…..i feel sorry for your listeners….if ignorance was a crime youd be doing life

BruinAlum77 said:
Just a little word about how filming is actually done. At our last commercial shoot, we had two cameramen.

This coming from a lying coward hiding behind a phony name. LOL. You have never been near a commercial shoot or any filming. I have. Fox news crews use ONE cameraman on these locations. On my website you can find a photo of me with Carl Cameron at the YouTube, CNN debate in Florida. I was sent to cover the debate by YouTube.
Anyone using a phony name can claim anything but the people here know better that to believe it without proof. Unless you give your real name you can produce NO proof that anything you say is true.

BruinAlum77 said:
If you examine the clip closely, you will find at :46 a woman with a red santa hat reaches from behind Tobin makes the subtlest movement with her arm and what looks like the extended finger of her hand. She is then pulled away by someone else who saw what she did.

nice work dick tracy, except “santa” is a man, with a little beard.

He hit Tobin, as well as pat him on the back, which is why three people pulled him away from Tobin. Even if he didn’t *hit* Tobin (which he did) he still touched him, which in that situation is assault and/or battery. Look it up.

like i said before – Tobin isn’t going to lie on LIVE tv that he was hit, if he wasn’t. he didn’t know the studio cut away from him, and he said it in front of 100 angry protesters. it’s called common sense, people.

As for the argument* if you don’t see it on the tape, then it didn’t happen*, are you doubting lara logan was attacked? are you denying anderson cooper was punched in the head, repeatedly?

ProObamaAgenda said:
redface……sir you are a idiot………you by far are the dumbest moron on this site…..i feel sorry for your listeners….if ignorance was a crime youd be doing life

Has Obama invited you to the White House to recieve recognition for your support? Has the White House sent you a thank you letter for being a shill for him? Oh wait, it is hard to do that when you don’t use a real name when defending your hero. Sorry but no one believes a word that you say here or will ever say here. Too bad.

ProObamaAgenda said:
lol @ u….clearly youre one of the morons keith was referring to …..too bad you have to defend all the rightwing bs so you wont have to admitt to the world and yourself how gullible and stupid you are….baggers like you are sickening to me……you think like a 2 year old…..the education system must have really failed in your case….bad homeschooling i suppose…its time for you crossburners to wake up and smell the coffee b4 Obama is forced to FEMAcamp all of your dumb asses

Now we know what you are. A truther. Fema Camps, LOL. It is no wonder you hide your name. Were you on that petition with Van Jones? You have now proven that you are INSANE.

BruinAlum77 said:
Just a little word about how filming is actually done. At our last commercial shoot, we had two cameramen. One shot the main action, while the second either shot the same action from a different perspective, or shot people reacting to what they were seeing. But it was all done at the same location. Sometimes, if the weather is bad, we might go back and shoot new action at the same location. But in no case would we pull video footage shot somewhere else and use it, or refer to it as B-roll footage.

Well, I work with a lot of news cameramen when I’m in Washington, and they will also refer to footage they shoot just to use as background for news reports (like POTUS walking to or from Marine 1) as “B-roll.”

Also, I’ve covered events like these protesters before, and TV crews like Tobin’s typically only have the one camera.

sarainitaly said:
nice work dick tracy, except “santa” is a man, with a little beard.

He hit Tobin, as well as pat him on the back, which is why three people pulled him away from Tobin. Even if he didn’t *hit* Tobin (which he did) he still touched him, which in that situation is assault and/or battery. Look it up.

like i said before – Tobin isn’t going to lie on LIVE tv that he was hit, if he wasn’t. he didn’t know the studio cut away from him, and he said it in front of 100 angry protesters. it’s called common sense, people.

As for the argument* if you don’t see it on the tape, then it didn’t happen*, are you doubting lara logan was attacked? are you denying anderson cooper was punched in the head, repeatedly?

Assuming facts not in evidence.

ProObamaAgenda said:
lol @ u….clearly youre one of the morons keith was referring to …..too bad you have to defend all the rightwing bs so you wont have to admitt to the world and yourself how gullible and stupid you are….baggers like you are sickening to me……you think like a 2 year old…..the education system must have really failed in your case….bad homeschooling i suppose…its time for you crossburners to wake up and smell the coffee b4 Obama is forced to FEMAcamp all of your dumb asses

wow, such a good argument you’ve made! you’ve convinced me! way to get down to the facts, and discuss things intelligently!

and btw – not a right winger, not a tea partier, not gullible, not stupid, not a moron, not home schooled, not religious, but college educated. Good work! your deductive reasoning skills are amazing!

oh, and your buddy keithy, i do believe, was referring to the writers here, which i find very rude of him.

too bad you are such an angry little man and can’t have a reasoned discussion….but, i know how facts tend to set *your kind* off.

Tommy Christopher said:
Boehlert’s construct is idiotic and yellow. I didn’t stand for it when Andrew Breitbart did it, not gonna stand for it now.,

the thing that really bothers me are those in the media who dismiss the whole thing that Tobin went through, as if it were nothing. that kind of crap behavior is bad, i don’t care if the reporter is left or right, FOX or MSNBS. it’s rude, inappropriate, threatening, potentially dangerous and stupid.

no one deserves that treatment, and i am surprised more people (anyone?) in the media didn’t condemn the actions of the hooligans in the crowd, and defend Tobin – which you did.

and i will repeat – they are obsessing over this because they don’t want to admit that the union crowd was unruly and inappropriate. *squirrel!*

Say, where do you go to get a degree in left wing? I want to become a “professional left winger”. It would look good on my resume when I go apply for a job with Bill Ayres.

Prank calls go out, prank calls come in. Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that.

sarainitaly said:
oh my GAWD, quit spamming mediate with this keith olbermann garbage!

I rarely agree with you sara, but on this — 100%

((there are times where I wish mediaite’s comment features weren’t as archaic as the computer game Oregon Trail))

MEDIAITE — PLEASE CONSIDER OUSTING SPAMMER “LOU SARAH” ~thank you~

Tommy Christopher said:
No, Tobin reported that he was hit, and I see no reason to doubt him from that tape. I watched it very closely, and it just isn’t conclusive. There is a strong case to be made that the contact was incidental to someone trying to reach out to the camera, but that’s not inconsistent with what Tobin said, anyway. Maybe I missed some other tape, but I also haven’t heard Tobin “play up” the “assault” (other Fox personalities have), and aside from saying “That guy just hit me” when it happened, his descriptions (the ones I have seen) have been mild. Boehlert’s construct is idiotic and yellow. I didn’t stand for it when Andrew Breitbart did it, not gonna stand for it now.,

I think you are being slightly generous to Tobin and certainly generause to the “others playing it up”.

Video (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d2e_1298976953) pretty much doesn’t show violence, thuggery or any other assertions that you are hearing from right-wing sites.

I’m sorry that Tobin’s shoulder was touched by Santa-hat. He can now commiserate with Lara Logan over being assaulted by violent protesters en masse.

Mediate, you’re losing credibility on this one.

BarneyFranken said:
So who is more dishonest here, O’Reilly or Colbert?

therefore it stands to reason that the only premeditation in deceit comes from Colbert.

Oh wait though, its “satire” not deceit. I forgot sorry.

Bawney, it stands to reason that your momma never sent you to the fruit market. You’ve got your apples and oranges mixed up again.
Colbert is on a channel called “Comedy Central”. Orally is on “Fox News”. Verstehen-zie? Capiche?
One is supposed to be ironic or satiric. The other claims to be “Fair and Balanced”. Colbert WANTS you to laugh at him. Orally WANTS you to take him seriously.

THE REAL ROYAL KING said:
Assuming facts not in evidence.

They didn’t say that in “A Few Good Men” are you broadening your education by watching Law & Order?

Tommy Christopher said:
No, Tobin reported that he was hit, and I see no reason to doubt him from that tape. I watched it very closely, and it just isn’t conclusive. There is a strong case to be made that the contact was incidental to someone trying to reach out to the camera, but that’s not inconsistent with what Tobin said, anyway.

Your contradictions basically prove my point. First you say you see no reason to doubt Tobin when he claimed that he was hit. Then you say that you watched the tape and it wasn’t conclusive. Then you say there is a strong case to be made that the contact was incidental.

If you want to define being poked by someone’s finger, great. But I think the great majority of people react to the word “hit” with a very different idea. If you can’t find conclusive evidence that he was hit, then why write your story the way you did? You could just as easily written that Tobin exaggerated the contact. So yes, you come off as biased in this case.

We also hear Tobin talk about the hatred in people’s eyes. Do you accept him on his word in that instance too?

The Mediaite spin appears to be showing video a couple of minutes earlier in a segment talking about union protests is carte blanche to repeat the same video in a separate segment with a different topic even if it doesn’t fit. Can we agree that ‘real journalist’ Bill O’Reilly is awfully sloppy (huge surprise)? Apparently not. So if “no spin” Harvard trained journalist O’Reilly’s usage of Florida footage to paint Wisconsin protesters in the worst light is to defended while satirist Colbert is to be criticized for holding Bill to a higher standard, I’d say Mediaite isn’t a very good media critic.

But my real beef with Mediaite is the statement Fox journalists “practice journalism cleanly and honestly”. Even tossing out all the pseudo news programs like Fox & Friends, Megyn’s America Live, Baier’s Special Report, Wallace’s Fox News Sunday, etc. which spin topics and feature anchors injecting plenty of opinion into stories, the little bit of original on-the-scene journalism Fox News does practice is too often tainted.

Take Tobin again. Before he accused the Wisconsin protesters of punching him I saw a segment of his where Wisconsin protesters were shouting “Fox lies” in the background and holding up anti-Fox News signs. Tobin got bent over it and fumed to the Fox News anchor. When he got to actually reporting the latest on the Wisconsin situation his narrow perspective dove tailed nicely with the GOP/Tea Party point of view.

The only newsman at Fox that has any integrity I’ve seen is Shep. All the rest, to varying degrees, play the game the Fox News audience expects. Including the ‘libs’ like registered Republican Geraldo who invariably tone down their argument so they’ll get a return visit.

Tommy Christopher said:
Well, I work with a lot of news cameramen when I’m in Washington, and they will also refer to footage they shoot just to use as background for news reports (like POTUS walking to or from Marine 1) as “B-roll.”

Also, I’ve covered events like these protesters before, and TV crews like Tobin’s typically only have the one camera.

When you say that news cameramen refer to footage they shoot to use as background for news reports (like the POTUS walking) as “B-roll,” that doesn’t mean they use that footage of Obama when the story is about the GOP. They don’t even use that footage when the President is in another country. There is a specific context of subject and location in these instances. Your assertion that Fox News was acting normally is completely illogical because there is no location or context to their use of B-roll.

With regard to your comment on what news crews having one cameraman, you are correct. While the reporter is working out their story, the cameraman is shooting background footage on scene – at the same time and location.

In both cases your examples are totally consistent with my argument that Fox had no business using random tape and calling it B-roll. If you want to justify their actions due to incompetence, instead of them trying to send a misleading message, that’s fine. Just don’t try to justify that as normal professional news reporting.

sarainitaly said:
nice work dick tracy, except “santa” is a man, with a little beard.

He hit Tobin, as well as pat him on the back, which is why three people pulled him away from Tobin. Even if he didn’t *hit* Tobin (which he did) he still touched him, which in that situation is assault and/or battery. Look it up.

like i said before – Tobin isn’t going to lie on LIVE tv that he was hit, if he wasn’t. he didn’t know the studio cut away from him, and he said it in front of 100 angry protesters. it’s called common sense, people.

As for the argument* if you don’t see it on the tape, then it didn’t happen*, are you doubting lara logan was attacked? are you denying anderson cooper was punched in the head, repeatedly?

First, I apologize about calling that old man a woman. I saw the long white hair and missed the beard.

Second, your claim that Santa hat both hit and poked Tobin doesn’t jive with the audio. You are seeing something that is not there because you are so desperate to believe Fox News.

Third, while the legal definition of assault is touching someone, you are exaggerating as much as Tobin, who said he was hit and later claimed he was punched, that it didn’t leave any bruises but that he had a charlie horse. Based on his tone of voice and lack of any body movement, there was no force in the touch, which backs up my position.

Finally, your argument comparing the attacks on Lara Logan and Anderson Cooper to Tobin is completely illogical. Regardless of whether you want to argue that there is no direct footage substantiating the claims of Logan and Cooper, in both cases, we were witnessing the overthrow of the Egyptian government. There was violence in the streets and people had been killed. In Wisconsin, we had a bunch of protesters who yelled that Fox lies, and there are a huge number of incidents where it is proven that Fox misleads their viewers.

Tobin has consistently reported on the hatred and vitriol of the crowds. And yet other reporters talk about how behaved the protesters are. Perhaps we are seeing a case of self-fulfilling prophesy. You lie about the protesters, so they get mad and yell at you that Fox News lies. Then you can report that the mob is angry and full of hate.

The bottom line of the story is that the unions have agreed to every financial concession demanded by Governor Walker, and yet he insists on union busting. In case you’re not aware of it, national polls have shown that 60% and 61% of Americans support the unions’ right to collective bargaining.

So who is the real extremist in this case? In addition, a new poll shows that Walker would lose the election if it were held again because members of his own party are upset with his dogmatic behavior.

It’s too bad you can’t use your visual acuity and intelligence to see beyond your incredible partisan slant and look at other perspectives.

BruinAlum77 said:
It’s too bad you can’t use your visual acuity and intelligence to see beyond your incredible partisan slant and look at other perspectives.

back at ya, Bruin.

Don’t know about you, but I watched it live, I saw the tapes, I listened to the following segments, I double checked the definitions of assault and battery, and I laughed my a** off at the amount of scrutiny this *incident* has received. And I used common sense. And I don’t have such hatred for some reporter doing his job that I think he is lying live on TV when he says someone punched him.

BruinAlum77 said:
You are seeing something that is not there because you are so desperate to believe Fox News.

You are not seeing something that is there because you are so desperate to believe Fox News lied.
FIFY.

“Tobin has consistently reported on the hatred and vitriol of the crowds. And yet other reporters talk about how behaved the protesters are.”

Go check out how those “others” reported on the tea party rallies… And take a look at the videos of all the vitriol and violence happening at the union protests. There is plenty out there. You wouldn’t know it by watching the networks, or CNN, MSNBC, but it’s out there.

BruinAlum77 said:
Second, your claim that Santa hat both hit and poked Tobin doesn’t jive with the audio.

i didn’t say he was poked. i said you can see a hand, that appears to be Santa’s, patting Tobin on the shoulder/back. Then signs move in the way, and you CAN NOT see his hands or Tobins arm. You do hear Tobin say he was just hit. You CAN NOT see either way. Tobin does however, say LIVE on air that he was just hit – not knowing the camera cut away from him, and in front of 100 angry protesters.

Why the frick would he lie? He didn’t. Common sense, people.

And if Santa (Santa is getting a bad rap here because some loon wore a Santa hat) did not hit him, why the heck did THREE people rush over and pull him away from Tobin? And you can CLEARLY see that happening.

Isn’t this at least twice Tobin has claimed he was hit just after the live camera shot leaves him? I think I remember a tale about a boy who cried wolf once too often. Perhaps his(Tobin’s) journalistic “integrity” should be in question.

sarainitaly said:
Go check out how those “others” reported on the tea party rallies… And take a look at the videos of all the vitriol and violence happening at the union protests.

So once again, you change the argument from Fox’s bias against the Wisconsin protesters to your complaints about the mainstream and cable news networks’ coverage of Tea Party rallies. If you want to discuss the hatred and vitriol of the Tea Party town hall meetings and other protests, including the threats of Tea Party candidates or their spokespeople saying “if ballots don’t work, bullets will,” I am more than happy to take up that subject.

However, rather than deflect the argument, or set up false moral equivalencies, stick to the subject at hand.

With regard to the video in question, the moment we see Santa hat’s extended finger and hand come into the picture, Tobin says “that guy just hit me.” It is one continuous move with the left hand. His right arm is too far away from Tobin, so there is no way he could make two separate movements. So, yeah, you are seeing what you want. Unless you are seeing the same video as me.

I didn’t say Tobin lied. I suggested that he was exaggerating. There is a huge difference between saying that I saw what looked like a poke in the back and saying that Tobin was not touched at all. So don’t put words in my mouth.

And given the fact that his voice doesn’t change, his body doesn’t move or look like it was shocked, and we see an extended index finger from Santa hat’s hand, it’s really tough to imagine Tobin was the victim of the dreaded Bruce Lee 1 inch punch. Common sense is what we both seem to want.

Even your description of the scene borders on hysterical. Two guys standing right next to Santa hat extend their arms to pull him away. The don’t “rush over.” They barely take a step toward him. A third person, a woman dressed in red gives the guy a look, but she doesn’t make any physical movement. Then Santa Hat puts his hand on one of the guy’s shoulder and walks away.

Do you seriously see any violent movements or force being used by anyone in this scene? You are pressing so hard to be right about this, when the video is inconclusive, but the commentators’ descriptions of the crowd’s hatred and harassment of Tobin are completely over the top.

I just hope, given your tremendous sensitivity for the pain suffered by Mr. Tobin that you are one of those people who believe that waterboarding is not torture. Anyway, this is obviously a case where you are so invested in your perceptions that we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

However, why is it that you fall completely silent as I point out the obvious flaws in your logic with regard to the differences between the incidents in Egypt and Wisconsin and the nature of the crowds in each location?

Why do you have nothing to say about the real issue in Wisconsin, which is that the unions have agreed to all the financial concessions asked of them, and that Walker is just an out of control extremist intent on busting the unions, in spite of the fact that Wisconsin and national public opinion is overwhelmingly against him?

Please talk to me about common sense and dealing with facts, instead of this he-said, she-said disagreement over Mediaite’s commentary on Fox’s commentary.

sarainitaly said:
He hit Tobin, as well as pat him on the back,

You are saying that there were two separate movements of the same hand, but Tobin says that he was hit right after we see Santa hat’s hand reach over the top to “pat him on the back.” So unless Tobin has really slow reflexes, there is no way that he was hit before he was either patted or poked and then spoke out right after the pat/poke.

It just doesn’t make sense.

BruinAlum77 said:
So, yeah, you are seeing what you want. Unless you are seeing the same video as me.

BruinAlum77 said:
You are saying that there were two separate movements of the same hand, but Tobin says that he was hit right after we see Santa hat’s hand reach over the top to “pat him on the back.”

i said you can’t see either way. i take him at his word, based on all the circumstances, and the fact that they dude did touch him – which is battery as defined by the law.

if you were any better at this dick tracy stuff, you would see that santa pats him on the back with his right hand. he then, as the large signs are moving in, transfers his sign from his left hand to his right, and we can’t see what his left hand is doing when Tobin says he just hit me. At that point, the three people *rush* to pull him away.

BruinAlum77 said:
it’s really tough to imagine Tobin was the victim of the dreaded Bruce Lee 1 inch punch

how many times did Tobin say afterwards that it didn’t leave a mark, it wasn’t a big deal, that it didn’t hurt? Every time, I do believe.

BruinAlum77 said:
Why do you have nothing to say about the real issue in Wisconsin, which is that the unions have agreed to all the financial concessions asked of them, and that Walker is just an out of control extremist intent on busting the unions, in spite of the fact that Wisconsin and national public opinion is overwhelmingly against him?

Please talk to me about common sense and dealing with facts, instead of this he-said, she-said disagreement over Mediaite’s commentary on Fox’s commentary.

I have discussed those issues in other threads, about what Walker is doing. THIS thread is about the video.

sarainitaly said:
if you were any better at this dick tracy stuff, you would see that santa pats him on the back with his right hand. he then, as the large signs are moving in, transfers his sign from his left hand to his right, and we can’t see what his left hand is doing when Tobin says he just hit me.

The whole issue is whether Tobin exaggerated his claim.

You reciting the definition of assault is the same kind of by the law hysteria doesn’t address the reality of the video or the context of Tobin’s reporting.

You can clearly see his left hand going over the top and patting or poking him on the back. Tobin says at that exact moment “that guy just hit me.” Look, aside from the Dick Tracy sarcasm, you’re trying to keep the discussion to a logical level. But you’re saying you see something that isn’t there.

My comment about the 1 inch punch was intended to be absurd and is a parallel to Tobin’s and your exaggerations.

You are the one who brought up the fallacious argument about me not believing that Logan and Cooper were attacked because there was no video footage. I simply pointed out the flaws in your argument and then supplied additional context supporting the position that Walker’s actions are extreme, go against the beliefs of the large majority of the people in Wisconsin and this country.

Fox chooses to portray the protesters as violent, hateful left wingers at the head of a communist supported movement (according to Glenn Beck), while the Wisconsin police have no problems with them, and the rest of the media world portray them as very loud and passionate, but orderly. I look at Fox’s attempt to make their viewers hate the protesters as a means of diverting the audience from the more important issue, which is that even Republicans in Wisconsin are turning against Walker (based on the recent poll that says he would be beaten handily if the election were held again in the present).

I think it is more than fair to ask the question if Tobin’s reporting is biased in order to reinforce Fox’s biased political stance.

So again, your silence says so much about your inability to, as Bill O always tells us, “see it in its original context.”

Nothing misleading here. O’Reilly’s show is for thinking adults. People watching this Kiddy show Have an emotional stability of an 13 year old that likes to poke sticks at the neighbors dog and see nothing wrong with bulling those that question his bad behavior.

Tommy, funny how you accuse Colbert of being misleading and yet you too are misleading. What you need to do is post ALL three videos that you were talking about and not just the Colbert video so that people can really judge for themselves. Post the FULL clips of the Bill O’Reilly episode about the palm trees, and the one where Tobin claims to have been hit also. You are misleading because Tobin “claims” he was “hit” but when you look at the footage, he was actually patted on the shoulder AFTER Tobin “slapped” that protester’s sign away. And that action was much more violent than the protester’s pat on the back. Fox News DOES lie about the protesters. It is NOT violent by any means and people who favor Walker and his bill have tried to come in and provoke violence during the rally and Walker and his party thought about having people pose as protesters just to start trouble. So what if people from other states are joining in with the protests? It’s not like many of Walker’s supporters are also not from out of state.

Also, it’s ridiculous how people say it’s OK the clip was shown because they were talking about CA. They only mentioned CA for a split second when they said that protesters were being flown in from various places such as CA. So next time they mention anything about other states, they should also show clips from all those states? It was intentional for them to use a clip and specifically one that was violent. Even if it was labeled “Union protest”, and NOT WI Union Protest, the issues at hand that they were talking about were unions, protests and violence at the protests. So they decided to run a violent protest in CA but did not mention that the clip was of a protest in CA, and all the footage they got from the WI protest were all peaceful and non violent…hmmm…imagine that.