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Turns Out Denying A Mosque Near Ground Zero Ain’t That Easy

by Meenal Vamburkar | 5:11 pm, August 3rd, 2010

» 23 comments

It’s official: the plan to build a mosque and Muslim community center two blocks away from Ground Zero essentially has a green light, despite vast controversy and conservative outrage. Amid the massive media and politics frenzy, three recent columns show the kind of real discussion we should be having in lieu of the rants and fear-mongering that seem to be garnering the most attention.

Today, New York City’s Landmark Commission unanimously denied landmark status to the building that exists on the Cordoba House project’s site currently – eliminating a major obstacle for the project. Legally, all systems are go. But in Newsweek/Washington Post‘s On Faith blog, Aseem Shukla, co-founder of the Hindu American Foundation, points to where the controversy really lies: “does legality trump prudence; does ability trump suitability?”

Shukla says religion was defamed at Ground Zero, and “asking religion to heal itself and others together at this site seems more reasonable than asking for another mosque, temple or church in a city that has thousands.” He mentions a different option:

An interfaith center collaboratively built by Americans, rather than a mosque possibly funded by overseas capital, is among many suggested alternatives.

Possibly funded by overseas capital? Shukla says certain things must be clear about Cordoba House. What is their interpretation of Islam — and does it resemble the interpretation of extremists? Does the initiative, which has strong ties to Malaysia, “reject that country’s history of Muslim chauvinism as a Sharia practicing country that systematically discriminates against the Hindu and Christian populations marginalizing them to second class status?” Shukla’s piece focuses not the actual project, but more on the ideology and views of the people behind the project — and this is a little-discussed perspective.

On the other hand, William Saletan‘s piece in Slate takes a different approach and looks at Cordoba House from the lens of American values. He generally argues that to deny building of the community center would be un-American and poses some dangerous questions about discrimination and freedom of religion.

It justifies bigotry. Don’t take it from me. Take it from Abe Foxman, the ADL’s national director. When the New York Times asked him how the feelings of family members of 9/11 victims could justify the ADL’s opposition to the mosque, he replied, “Survivors of the Holocaust are entitled to feelings that are irrational.” In the case of the 9/11 families, he argued, “Their anguish entitles them to positions that others would categorize as irrational or bigoted.”

It renounces pluralism. Again, don’t take my word for it. Read Gingrich’s words: “There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia.” That’s a straightforward message to illiberal Muslim regimes: If you won’t rise to our level, we’ll sink to yours.

[emphasis theirs]

And yet isn’t pluralism and tolerance exactly what this country was founded on? In a recent interview, the city’s mayor, Michael Bloomberg, made the following remarks:

“If we are so afraid of something like this, what does it say about us? Democracy is stronger than this. You know, the ability to practice your religion was one of the real reasons America was founded.”

That Americans covet their First Amendment rights is almost a universally known fact. As Thane Rosenberg says in the Huffington Post, the First Amendment is utterly American — right up there with apple pie, baseball and George Washington. I can recall many an elementary school lesson about how pilgrims came to the “New World” to escape religious persecution. We could argue back and forth about what the real reasons were, but the fact remains that religious freedom and tolerance are self-proclaimed American ideals.

Going off this idea, Blake Hounshell brings up another point in Foreign Policy: George W. Bush. And, incidentally, he’s not blaming Bush for anything, but arguing that the former president is the only man who can stop the “mosque madness”:

Much as Muslims around the world may have despised his foreign policy and his interrogation and detention policies, the former president spoke out repeatedly and eloquently against attacks on Muslims, and visited an Islamic center several days after 9/11 to send the message that Muslims were not the enemy. He may not have much standing in the Islamic community today, but he still retains a broad following on the right.

Yet Bush has been living under the radar, almost entirely out of the media spotlight. Hounshell says he hopes Bush speaks out, but realistically it is unlikely that he will at this moment — at least about this particular issue.

Another aspect of this ordeal is that while a Muslim community center two blocks away from Ground Zero has caused such a media frenzy, the fact that the Ground Zero site still remains empty — that it took so long to finalize ground plans — has not elicited much discontent. Some have argued that the true show of American strength and the country’s ability to bounce back would have been to promptly fill the gap in the skyline that still serves as a painful reminder for so many. Nearly nine years later, we haven’t.

In the previously mentioned On Faith post, Shukla mentions the idea of a multi-faith center where he says religion was defamed. Indeed, such a project would be a prominent display of unity and pluralism. But no such center has been in the works. When the city does not already have plans, it finds itself on a slippery slope if it wants to deny the Muslims of their center. Without downplaying any of the post-9/11 anger and pain, it’s hard to deny the project now without coming dangerously close to stepping on self-proclaimed American ideals.

America, Amurrca, Ground Zero, Ground Zero Mosque, Huffington Post, Michael Bloomberg, NYC, Religion, religion and politics, Slate

ChiliPeppersFan

i read that bloomberg even got choked up while giving the speech..this part was my favorite

“The attack was an act of war, and our first responders defended not only our city, but our country and our constitution. We do not honor their lives by denying the very constitutional rights they died protecting. We honor their lives by defending those rights and the freedoms that the terrorists attacked.
Azarkhan

“And yet isn’t pluralism and tolerance exactly what this country was founded on?”

Exactly. So let’s be tolerant of the majority of Americans who do not want the mosque built at Ground Zero.
Why can’t the mosque be built somewhere else? Why does it HAVE to be built at Ground Zero? There is no Muslim population to speak of at Ground Zero. So why there?
http://apostrophejones.com Apostrophe jones

Planting the victory flag . Islam is Islam. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38360m .
http://TheDividedStatesBlog.com Publius219

It’s not AT ground zero. That’s part of the Fox News narrative. It is 2 city blocks from Ground Zero.

The question becomes, what would be an acceptable distance? 3 blocks? 6? 10? At what point does the buffer zone end and the 1st amendment begin?
murf

Praise be to Allah !
yupin

Muslim always build a mosque where they feel they have had a battle and won, or a great stroke for Alla. How stupid can people be not to see they consider the destruction as a victory, they celebrated all over the Muslim world on the 11/12 the World Trade Center destruction. Now a Mosque to mark there victory in NY.
BruceGoose

Azarkhan said:
“And yet isn’t pluralism and tolerance exactly what this country was founded on?”

Exactly. So let’s be tolerant of the majority of Americans who do not want the mosque built at Ground Zero.

So we should be tolerant of intolerance?
Azarkhan

SpruceGoose, it’s assholes like you that are being intolerant.
Bootleghaircut

“SpruceGoose, it’s assholes like you that are being intolerant”

Of course! Brilliant!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Treacher/542957672 Jim Treacher

Turns out 9/11 wasn’t a terrorist attack after all. It was an eviction notice.
Azarkhan

“It’s not AT ground zero. That’s part of the Fox News narrative. It is 2 city blocks from Ground Zero. ” Publius219

Ohh, now you tell me! 2 whole blocks! That’s a ginormous difference!

PS: I just have two questions:
1) how fucking stupid are you?
2) how fucking stupid do you think we are?
shootfromthehip

Tea tards lose again!

The mayor of New York and the people of New York reject your message of hate.

Deal with it.
Hugo Daun

I’d like to first take this opportunity to answer Azkaban’s question #2:

Azarkhan said:
2) how fucking stupid do you think we are?

I think you’re pretty damned stupid.

Read some details about the proposed “mosque” here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/just-how-far-is-the-groun_b_660585.html

Or, of course, you can continue to spew your bigoted, ill-informed rhetoric.
Patrick Henry

It is not a message of hate. It is about showing sensitivity and compassion for others. Any reasonable person could see that. There are plenty of mosques in New York for them to worship in without ripping apart old wounds.
marcus.lewis

Greg Mortenson, author of Three Cups of Tea (required reading for military officers), wrote about 9/11. He was in Pakistan building schools for girls when the planes hit the WTC. It took a while for the message to get to him, and he was told that a village in America has been bombed. Pakistani Muslims did not cheer at this, they gave him eggs to bring home to the widows left behind by this attack. They said that’s not us—that’s extremists. However, that did not stop the amount of hate mail he received after 9/11 for building schools to help women. Mind you, these were not religious schools.. they were secular in nature. If a great man like Mortenson, who has advised Patraeus, was attacked for something so noble—then I can only expect this kind of irrationality over the Mosque.

With that said, we are talking about private property and land ownership. Conservatives can’t have it both ways… either you believe in removing government intervention and regulations or you believe in regulations. To say that the government should not allow this is to argue against everything your ideology states. Arguing against this mosque is the equivalent of saying that a government could deny a church to be built at a location. To say that they have plenty of places to worship, so go there is besides the point. This is private land, owned by private persons and the majority of American’s don’t get to decide what I do with my land.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-A-Cohen/1421861353 Jonathan A Cohen

Just a FYI for some of us-two rather good stories on this issue:
A Street-Level View of the “Ground Zero Mosque” by Nate Silver-538.com: http://bit.ly/9XHH8Y
Polls, Reporting on “Ground Zero Mosque” May Mislead by Nate Silver 538.com: http://bit.ly/at0Is6
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-A-Cohen/1421861353 Jonathan A Cohen

Forgot to include this one in prior posting:
Before they started trying to block mosques, they tried to block synagogues http://shar.es/01wjX
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-A-Cohen/1421861353 Jonathan A Cohen

Getting late-over looked this:
In Islamic Center Fight, Lessons in Prepositions and Fear-Mongering:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/nyregion/27nyc.html?_r=2&ref=nyregion
Contessa

What a disgraceful episode this was – the ADL championing the end of religious freedom (just for muslims of course), and every two bit right wing nut chiming in about “THE TERRORIST MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO!!!!!!!” I’d say it’s time to mooooooove on.
Some_Dude

This is the United States of America. We shouldn’t even be having this debate in the year 2010. It’s disappointing really. Conservatives sing of freedom so fiercely, and yet, are always the first to try to deny it to others.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-A-Cohen/1421861353 Jonathan A Cohen

Michael Bloomberg delivers stirring defense of mosque:
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/08/03/mayor_bloomberg_on_mosque&source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Not%20Premium%29_7_30_110
ganymede

I live in Manhattan and lived through 9/11. I am proud that our Mayor has taken such a strong stand about the Mosque issue. Isn’t there still such a thing as freedom of religion. As usual, the ignorant, intolerant ones are stirring the pot but, fortunately, it won’t work. The rightwingers are really making a mess of themselves on virtually every major issue. I think we should encourage them to get on with their immature posturing and great work in destroying the hypocritical Republican Party. Strangely enough, Bloomberg identifies himself as a Republican and I feel sorry for the tiny handful of Republicans and Conservatives who still have some moral integrity
http://www.pmm.nl Ron C. de Weijze

Pluralism and democracy invite everybody to America, but that doesn’t imply that America’s values remain pluralistic and democratic in the misused sense of the word when it comes to Judeo Christian culture. That does not seek to overtrow Islam, while the reverse is a whole different story. Democracy is the stepping stone for anyone seeking to destroy a system built on independent confirmation by simply bringing a hateful culture to the West and beating it by numbers, on any scale.