And brilliant. The mayor is actually an impressive guy.

Hacks and Non-Entities at Media Matters Used GMA Clip as Proof Glenn Beck ‘Liked’ Ground Zero Imam Also Used Same Clip in 2006 to Call Beck a Muslim Hater

The “progressive advocacy” group funded in part by George Soros, and birthed by Obama transition head/Dem party hack John Podesta, called Glenn Beck a hypocrite for questioning whether Feisal Abdul Rauf, the Imam of the Ground Zero Mosque was truly a “moderate.” For evidence the fair-minded stenographers at MMFA point to a 2006 appearance on Good Morning America, where Beck appeared with Imam Rauf. The strange part is that back in 2006 when Glenn Beck made that appearance on GMA, the selfsame hacks and non-entities at Media Matters used the appearance to brand Beck as an Islamaphobe.

So which one is it guys?

Media Matters claims to be a watchdog group, to correct mistakes and point out “right-wing propaganda” in the mainstream media. The use of this Glenn Beck/ Imam Rauf tape to make opposing points shows Media Matters for what it really is, a bunch of opportunistic hacks and non-entities who never hesitate to distort and misrepresent the truth to “prove” their partisan/hack points.

No wonder they can’t get jobs anywhere else.

http://bigjournalism.com/jdunetz/2010/08/26/hacks-and-non-entities-at-media-matters-used-gma-clip-as-proof-glenn-beck-liked-ground-zero-imam-also-used-same-clip-in-2006-to-call-beck-a-muslim-hater/#more-111305

Terrifying anti-Muslim crime wave sweeping America, probably
http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/27/terrifying-anti-muslim-crime-wave-sweeping-america-probably/

The efforts by those on the left to attack Beck, and conservatives, are becoming more and more hilarious. They are looking like desperate unhinged loons.

Supporters of the Mosque keep railing about the *constitutional rights* to build there, and to their freedom of religion, meanwhile trying to squash the rights of those who are speaking out against the Mosque.

The opponents should have a right to protest, and express their opposition, without being called hateful bigoted islamaphobes. 9/11 affected every American – not just New Yorkers, and everyone has an opinion.

I guess the Supporters have the *right* to express their anger at those who oppose, but they are doing so in hopes of squelching the opposition out of fear of being labeled racist. That is stomping on their constitutional rights to freely express themselves, and express their opposition.

Opponents aren’t trying to dictate constitutional rights – they are appealing to the sensitivities and *supposed* good intentions of those behind the Mosque. Supporters are trying to dictate constitutional rights of the opponents by attacking them for expressing their opinions and concerns through ugly, hurtful name calling attacks.

Beck doesn’t need any defence from Bloomy. Bloomy needs to defend himself. He is a liar and a fool.

The name-calling isn’t limited to one side sara, no matter how much hysterical rhetoric you use to try and support your arguments.

I don’t get it, Bloomberg is a complete bigot when it comes to smokers, adult stores, salt, fat people, yet when it comes to insulting the victims of 9/11, it’s Allah Ackbar!

sarainitaly said:
I guess the Supporters have the *right* to express their anger at those who oppose, but they are doing so in hopes of squelching the opposition out of fear of being labeled racist. That is stomping on their constitutional rights to freely express themselves, and express their opposition.

Although I disagree with knee-jerk calls of racism, you cannot say that calling someone racist is ‘stomping on their constitutional rights’. Those that oppose the mosque are free to voice their opinion and outrage, but that does not mean there won’t be some criticism. Criticism, hurtful or unwarranted or otherwise, does not limit anyone’s freedom of speech, it’s just someone else with an opposing view expressing themselves.

sarainitaly said:
The opponents should have a right to protest, and express their opposition, without being called hateful bigoted islamaphobes.

But they don’t have that right because the people calling them ‘bigots’, no matter if it is true or not, also have freedom of expression.

greg454 said:
I don’t get it, Bloomberg is a complete bigot when it comes to smokers, adult stores, salt, fat people,

LOL, Yeah, I’ll second that. Now Thomas Farley is trying to do the same to soft drinks.

gordonbloyershow said:
Beck doesn’t need any defence from Bloomy. Bloomy needs to defend himself. He is a liar and a fool.

I disagree with him on many, many things and have voted against him, but he is an excellent administrator. Liar, maybe but not habitual. Fool, absolutely not.

A big salute to my fellow Independent for standing behind our Constitution and rejecting over the top hyperbole.
Plans are moving forward,thank you Bloomy!

This Beck thing tomorrow is scheduled to last an entire 3 hours. Yes, the length of some of the bloated movies Hollywood puts out and just look at the libs freak out ,stomp their feet and spew their venom over a 3 hour event.

Ahhhhh, I love it so!

But they don’t have that right because the people calling them ‘bigots’, no matter if it is true or not, also have freedom of expression.

I believed I answered that in my post. Calling someone a racist is a loaded weapon meant to intimidate people into staying silent. It has been used over and over again, willy nilly with the hopes of shutting up the opposition/Conservatives. They can’t debate on issue, so they lob harmful labels. The label racist is harmful, can cause people to lose their jobs, ruin relationships, etc. and should not be thrown around as freely as it is.

Instead of calling the opposition racist hateful bigots, why don’t supporters debate the issue, compromise, discuss? Instead they accuse them and call them names. That certainly doesn’t allow for any civil discourse.

paulmdoro says:
August 27, 2010 at 9:57 am (Quote)
The name-calling isn’t limited to one side sara, no matter how much hysterical rhetoric you use to try and support your arguments.

Of course not, but I think the full force of the MSM and members of the Democratic government vs. some people on the street with signs is not really an equal battle field, is it?

What hysterical rhetoric am I using?

sarainitaly said:

Calling someone a racist is a loaded weapon meant to intimidate people into staying silent. It has been used over and over again, willy nilly with the hopes of shutting up the opposition/Conservatives. They can’t debate on issue, so they lob harmful labels. The label racist is harmful, can cause people to lose their jobs, ruin relationships, etc. and should not be thrown around as freely as it is.

Like Glenn Beck calling the president a racist?

Stephen Hogan said:
But they don’t have that right because the people calling them ‘bigots’, no matter if it is true or not, also have freedom of expression.

I didn’t quote Stephen in my reply above.

sarainitaly said:
Instead of calling the opposition racist hateful bigots, why don’t supporters debate the issue, compromise, discuss? Instead they accuse them and call them names. That certainly doesn’t allow for any civil discourse.

I completely agree.

paulmdoro said:
Like Glenn Beck calling the president a racist?

Like I said yesterday, Beck provided a long list of examples as to why he came to that conclusion, one stretching 20 years. There are willy nilly charges of racism, and there is real racism. Throwing the charge around willy nilly takes away the seriousness when real racism exists. Obama has made numerous statements, over many years, that led Beck to that conclusion. However, Beck should have just left it at *I think Obama has a problem with/doesn’t like white people* and not called him a racist.

Wait, are you honestly saying that Beck had good reason to call the president a racist? Calling the mixed race president who adored his white grandmother a racist is defensible? Are you serious?

Jon Stewart, holding a mirror up to American intolerance for over 10 years.

The Tea Party, redacting parts of the Constitution since Dick Armey took his dick out of Glenn Beck’s mouth when he had an idea.

Stephen Hogan said:
I completely agree.

See, that’s what civil discourse leads to. :O) I always take away something when I engage in civil discussion with someone rational. I have even been known to change my mind. ;O) But ugly attacks and name calling just makes people dig in harder and throw up walls.

sarainitaly said:
But ugly attacks and name calling just makes people dig in harder and throw up walls.

Indeed there is too much of this from both sides these days.

gordonbloyershow said:
Beck doesn’t need any defence from Bloomy. Bloomy needs to defend himself. He is a liar and a fool.

Gordon, do have rational points of discussion or is name calling your strong suit? Bloomberg was articulate and correct. He’s neither a liar or a fool for disagreeing with you. I see you post here a lot. Try to make rational points without all the empty useless name calling.

CosmosDan said:
Gordon, do have rational points of discussion or is name calling your strong suit? Bloomberg was articulate and correct. He’s neither a liar or a fool for disagreeing with you. I see you post here a lot. Try to make rational points without all the empty useless name calling.

Don’t hold your breath.

Kayvan Ghavim said:
The Tea Party, redacting parts of the Constitution since Dick Armey took his dick out of Glenn Beck’s mouth when he had an idea.

Ahhhhhh, a foul mouthed juvenile lib weighs in with his homosexual fantasies.

paulmdoro says: Don’t hold your breath.

Aint that The Truth

greg454 said:
I don’t get it, Bloomberg is a complete bigot when it comes to smokers, adult stores, salt, fat people, yet when it comes to insulting the victims of 9/11, it’s Allah Ackbar!

It is in no way an insult to victims of 9/11. Do you hear what he said about meeting with their families? I assume you know Muslim Americans died at 9/121 also and died in our armed forces in Iraq. American citizens exercising their civil liberties is not an insult to anyone. The only perceived insult is caving in to unreasoning emotion that lumps all Muslims together. I hope that’s not what we’re about.

notsofast said:
Ahhhhhh, a foul mouthed juvenile lib weighs in with his homosexual fantasies.

You calling someone else foul-mouthed? What’s next? Gordon calling Bloomberg a liar? Oh wait..

sarainitaly said:
See, that’s what civil discourse leads to. :O) I always take away something when I engage in civil discussion with someone rational. I have even been known to change my mind. ;O) But ugly attacks and name calling just makes people dig in harder and throw up walls.

Thank you. You’re correct. Both sides get mad and hurl irrational insults and no progress is made. I’ve decided to really examine my language and try to keep it respectful and discuss the facts and points of every issue as a separate entity, rather than use language that insults or lumps all conservatives or all liberals together. No group of humans has a hive mind.Let’s try to have a respectful conversation about an issue with an individual person and see if that helps. I appreciate your post.

paulmdoro said:
You calling someone else foul-mouthed? What’s next? Gordon calling Bloomberg a liar? Oh wait..

Ahh, the poor lib shill is felling left out- hubba, hubba

notsofast said:
Ahh, the poor lib shill is felling left out- hubba, hubba

I have no idea what felling is.

paulmdoro said:
I have no idea what felling is.

But you can identity with Kayvan Ghavim ‘s homosexual fantasies, I bet!

notsofast said:
But you can identity with Kayvan Ghavim ’s homosexual fantasies, I bet!

Wow and you called someone else juvenile? Priceless.

paulmdoro said:
Wow and you called someone else juvenile? Priceless.

I hit a nerve!

It’s true!

notsofast said:
I hit a nerve!

It’s true!

If you believe that you’re more delusional than I thought. That’s scary.

BTW, libs- despite all your attempts, the great and powerful Beck will be holding his rally tomorrow. So spew all your lib hate and venom- ya lost. It will happen and I’m so happy that he drives you nuts with his wisdom!

paulmdoro said:
Like Glenn Beck calling the president a racist?

Whats the difference between what beck said and the accusations that come from the left on a daily basis? Beck apologized.

dlauf87 said:
Whats the difference between what beck said and the accusations that come from the left on a daily basis? Beck apologized.

Does “the left” meet in a lair or a bunker? I can never remember.

notsofast said:
BTW, libs- despite all your attempts, the great and powerful Beck will be holding his rally tomorrow. So spew all your lib hate and venom- ya lost. It will happen and I’m so happy that he drives you nuts with his wisdom!

Tip your waiter or waitress folks. He’ll be here all week.

paulmdoro said:
paulmdoro says:
August 27, 2010 at 11:17 am paulmdoro(Quote)
Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

Next time, have something to say, OK?

notsofast said:
Next time, have something to say, OK?

LOL. You just never stop. Pot, meet kettle.

paulmdoro said:
LOL. You just never stop. Pot, meet kettle.

LOL

I own you!

You must respond to me, child!

notsofast said:
LOL

I own you!

You must respond to me, child!

I find you amusing. You’re entertaining. I like responding to you. I do wonder though if your parents should cut back on your computer privileges.

paulmdoro said:
paulmdoro says:
August 27, 2010 at 11:23 am paulmdoro(Quote)
Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

Sure. Of course. Whatever you say. I believe you! (pushes button to summon Security).No, seriously, I do (continues to press button for Security.) We will discuss it 1st. thing in the morning.
Quick, get the sedative!

I’d also like to point out the elephant in the room in regards to attaching 9/11 to all Muslims.

The perpetrators of 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia, only 20% of the Muslim population comes from the Middle East.

So a majority of Muslims do not come from the Middle East, so even using the wild eyed conspiratorial lens that Americans tend to do (thanks to mainstream “news” outlets), as a country we are lumping in the other 80% of Muslims that come from all over the world.

13% live in Indonesia
31% in the Indian subcontinent
15% in sub-Sarahan Africa

there are also sizeable populations of Muslims in China, Russia and the Carribean

In fact, nearly 25% of the world’s population is Muslim…so as a country we are, in a sense, attacking the religious morality of quite a large portion of the world’s population with mainstream “news channel” commentators depicting their religion in a negative light. They have been pushing a fear of Sharia Law, questioning the base tenants of their religious beliefs and casting them out as an unequal and degraded religion.

I could link to many, many videos that have been posted of interviews taking place on major network “news” outlets to back this up.

We have been fighting side-by-side with Muslims for the past 8 years to get Al Quaeda out of their countries.

So why are we blaming Muslims for what Al Quaeda did? It would appear that they are one of our strongest allies in the world right now.

sarainitaly said:
But they don’t have that right because the people calling them ‘bigots’, no matter if it is true or not, also have freedom of expression.

I believed I answered that in my post. Calling someone a racist is a loaded weapon meant to intimidate people into staying silent. It has been used over and over again, willy nilly with the hopes of shutting up the opposition/Conservatives. They can’t debate on issue, so they lob harmful labels. The label racist is harmful, can cause people to lose their jobs, ruin relationships, etc. and should not be thrown around as freely as it is.

Instead of calling the opposition racist hateful bigots, why don’t supporters debate the issue, compromise, discuss? Instead they accuse them and call them names. That certainly doesn’t allow for any civil discourse.

I agree it’s wrong and unhelpful to apply a blanket label of racist or bigot to all those who oppose Park 51 or to all Tea Party folks. That said, I think in the case of Park 51 we have to discuss the issue of bigotry. IMO the only way the sensitivity and propriety argument work is if we are willing to associate these Muslim Americans with the Muslims of 9/11. We see that being done in ads and on blogs. Protests in other parts of the country against any new Mosques. Lumping all of one group together in ill will is the very definition of bigotry. Sadly in this case I think decent Americans are letting their emotional response overcome their good judgment with the help of profit driven media. Part of defending the principles of our Constitution is doing it when it’s hard to do. Not just the letter of it, but the principle in action in society.
If I’m an atheist who thinks all religion is bad for mankind I wouldn’t want a church built across from my home. I have the right to protest the building but if I’m protesting simply because I personally object to religion then I’m protesting contrary to the principles of our civil rights, based on my own emotions. I think a similar thing is happening here.
I suggest those who oppose Park 51 consider the practical aspect. If you’d like them to relocate then help raise funds so to finance a relocation. Show the sensitivity you expect from them in a practical application.
overall, I don’t get it. They’ve been living there for 20 years , praying at that location for months and months, but the idea of a new building is offensive? You’re welcome to worship there as long as the building remains run down and damaged but if you’d like to improve the property you own it’s offensive to others? I just don’t get it.

paulmdoro said:
Does “the left” meet in a lair or a bunker? I can never remember.

Cute. Are you suggesting media figures on the left don’t call people racists? Maybe they meet on internet forums and say things like “pick a conservative, barnes, rove, and call him racist” Is that where they meet? you tell me, i’m not invited to the meetings.

notsofast said:
Sure. Of course. Whatever you say. I believe you! (pushes button to summon Security).No, seriously, I do (continues to press button for Security.) We will discuss it 1st. thing in the morning.
Quick, get the sedative!

Quick, someone tell his mom he’s on the net again and abusing his privileges!

dlauf87 said:
Cute. Are you suggesting media figures on the left don’t call people racists? Maybe they meet on internet forums and say things like “pick a conservative, barnes, rove, and call him racist” Is that where they meet? you tell me, i’m not invited to the meetings.

I’m not invited either. Still trying to figure out where “the left” holds their strategy sessions. If I find out I’ll let you know.

dlauf87 said:
Whats the difference between what beck said and the accusations that come from the left on a daily basis? Beck apologized.

Beck has every right to voice his opinion about the president and hold his rally and to become a millionaire. It’s just sad that so many people accept what he says without question. IMO he’s in it for the money not for love of country. { I get to say that right?}

And the hate Glen Beck Network (aka NBC/MSNBC) warns of “racist signs” at tomorrow’s rally.

What a bunch of lying twits report (aka propagandize) on NBC.

NBC thinks the American citizenry who support our troop are a bunch of racists.

NBC – National Barak Channel sucks.

SpineCrusher said:
I’d also like to point out the elephant in the room in regards to attaching 9/11 to all Muslims.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no one has.

CosmosDan said:
I agree it’s wrong and unhelpful to apply a blanket label of racist or bigot to all those who oppose Park 51 or to all Tea Party folks. That said, I think in the case of Park 51 we have to discuss the issue of bigotry. IMO the only way the sensitivity and propriety argument work is if we are willing to associate these Muslim Americans with the Muslims of 9/11. We see that being done in ads and on blogs. Protests in other parts of the country against any new Mosques. Lumping all of one group together in ill will is the very definition of bigotry. Sadly in this case I think decent Americans are letting their emotional response overcome their good judgment with the help of profit driven media. Part of defending the principles of our Constitution is doing it when it’s hard to do. Not just the letter of it, but the principle in action in society.If I’m an atheist who thinks all religion is bad for mankind I wouldn’t want a church built across from my home. I have the right to protest the building but if I’m protesting simply because I personally object to religion then I’m protesting contrary to the principles of our civil rights, based on my own emotions. I think a similar thing is happening here.I suggest those who oppose Park 51 consider the practical aspect. If you’d like them to relocate then help raise funds so to finance a relocation. Show the sensitivity you expect from them in a practical application.overall, I don’t get it. They’ve been living there for 20 years , praying at that location for months and months, but the idea of a new building is offensive? You’re welcome to worship there as long as the building remains run down and damaged but if you’d like to improve the property you own it’s offensive to others? I just don’t get it.

nice post, seriously..and I feel the confusion as well.

I don’t think we’ll ever understand the negative reaction because we’re not afraid of Muslims. We also have a greater degree of respect and understanding of the values America stands for.

From time to time in this countries history similiar xenophobia and jingoism has reared it’s ugly head, but equality and tolerance has always won in the long term. We just have to stand strong in the face of their negativity and not back down.

The community center will be built because it’s exactly what our men and women in uniform have been fighting for ever since 9/11 and it’s exactly what our values stand for.

We have the law on our side, they know that…which is why they’re so upset. The “media” didn’t jump on the story until after it was legally too late to stop the process. It’s feigned unrest, which fits perfectly into the current FAUX news dialog.

dlauf87 said:
Cute. Are you suggesting media figures on the left don’t call people racists? Maybe they meet on internet forums and say things like “pick a conservative, barnes, rove, and call him racist” Is that where they meet? you tell me, i’m not invited to the meetings.

It’s not helping for either side to lump individuals into groups and resort to name calling. Yes, both sides do it, and I encourage anyone in the political spectrum to cut it out. Deal with the issue based on facts and rational and respectful discussion. Talk to an individual without lumping them into a group.

paulmdoro said:
Quick, someone tell his mom he’s on the net again and abusing his privileges!

Oh, for God’s sake, how predictable you are with the antediluvian “mom” retort. You libs truly are unoriginal and mundane.

Come up with something new.

SpineCrusher said:
The community center will be built because it’s exactly what our men and women in uniform have been fighting for ever since 9/11

That’s funny- I have not heard one service person say “we have been fighting so a mosque can be built in Manhattan”. Not one!

notsofast said:
Oh, for God’s sake, how predictable you are with the antediluvian “mom” retort. You libs truly are unoriginal and mundane.

Come up with something new.

LOL

I own you!

You must respond to me, child!

Your just distracting from the point. I never heard Janine Gerofallo apologize when she calls thousands of people racists for protesting government spending. I never heard anyone apologize for the onslaught against Rush Limbaugh when he was part of group trying to buy the rams after repeating quotes that Rush never even said. Just get on mediamatters and surf for 5 minutes and I’m sure you will find someone calling someone a racist unjustifiably. You knew what I meant and you know I’m right.

If you are some kind of outsider who doesn’t participate in that kind of rhetoric, i’d like more people like you to speak out against it. Sorry if you were insulted when I group together outspoken people on the left side of the spectrum as “the left”

dlauf87 said:
Your just distracting from the point. I never heard Janine Gerofallo apologize when she calls thousands of people racists for protesting government spending. I never heard anyone apologize for the onslaught against Rush Limbaugh when he was part of group trying to buy the rams after repeating quotes that Rush never even said. Just get on mediamatters and surf for 5 minutes and I’m sure you will find someone calling someone a racist unjustifiably. You knew what I meant and you know I’m right.

If you are some kind of outsider who doesn’t participate in that kind of rhetoric, i’d like more people like you to speak out against it. Sorry if you were insulted when I group together outspoken people on the left side of the spectrum as “the left”

I am hardly “an outsider.” The vast majority of people with liberal politics do not call the opposition racists. Just like the vast majority of people with conservative politics are not racists.

paulmdoro said:
I am hardly “an outsider.” The vast majority of people with liberal politics do not call the opposition racists. Just like the vast majority of people with conservative politics are not racists.

so true!

SpineCrusher said:
nice post, seriously..and I feel the confusion as well.

I don’t think we’ll ever understand the negative reaction because we’re not afraid of Muslims. We also have a greater degree of respect and understanding of the values America stands for.

From time to time in this countries history similiar xenophobia and jingoism has reared it’s ugly head, but equality and tolerance has always won in the long term. We just have to stand strong in the face of their negativity and not back down.

The community center will be built because it’s exactly what our men and women in uniform have been fighting for ever since 9/11 and it’s exactly what our values stand for.

We have the law on our side, they know that…which is why they’re so upset. The “media” didn’t jump on the story until after it was legally too late to stop the process. It’s feigned unrest, which fits perfectly into the current FAUX news dialog.

Thanks
I think Bloomberg suggested it was also about elections. Rather than focus on all the serious issues that face us let’s create an emotional one through fear mongering and use it. Is that the kind of thing we should be rewarding and embracing? I welcome a rational fact based respectful conversation with anyone. We need each other to find real solutions. Let’s stop being manipulated by profit driven media and other interests.
It isn’t easy. Emotions run high and we get mad but lets try to refrain from insults and lumping groups and issues together. As we can see on this board, there are some who love to stir the pot for entertainment rather than engage in any meaningful dialogue. Give them a chance to participate but stop responding in anger to their taunts. It doesn’t help to answer meaningless insult with meaningless insult.

notsofast said:
That’s funny- I have not heard one service person say “we have been fighting so a mosque can be built in Manhattan”. Not one!

I have. They called it civil liberties for Americans. I heard an Iraq veteran running for office say it, and he’ll get my vote because he cares about principle more than created emotional ploys.
Check out what Mayor Bloomberg says about meeting with the families of 9/11 victims.

notsofast said:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no one has.

I believe that’s incorrect. The argument of insensitivity and propriety is based on these Americans being Muslim, just like the 9/11 attackers were. If that’s not attaching them to 9/11 by their religion then please explain what it is.

SpineCrusher said:
I’d also like to point out the elephant in the room in regards to attaching 9/11 to all Muslims.

The perpetrators of 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia, only 20% of the Muslim population comes from the Middle East.

So a majority of Muslims do not come from the Middle East, so even using the wild eyed conspiratorial lens that Americans tend to do (thanks to mainstream “news” outlets), as a country we are lumping in the other 80% of Muslims that come from all over the world.

13% live in Indonesia
31% in the Indian subcontinent
15% in sub-Sarahan Africa

there are also sizeable populations of Muslims in China, Russia and the Carribean

In fact, nearly 25% of the world’s population is Muslim…so as a country we are, in a sense, attacking the religious morality of quite a large portion of the world’s population with mainstream “news channel” commentators depicting their religion in a negative light. They have been pushing a fear of Sharia Law, questioning the base tenants of their religious beliefs and casting them out as an unequal and degraded religion.

I could link to many, many videos that have been posted of interviews taking place on major network “news” outlets to back this up.

We have been fighting side-by-side with Muslims for the past 8 years to get Al Quaeda out of their countries.

So why are we blaming Muslims for what Al Quaeda did? It would appear that they are one of our strongest allies in the world right now.

Thank you for intelligent rational fact based discussion.

notsofast said:
This Beck thing tomorrow is scheduled to last an entire 3 hours. Yes, the length of some of the bloated movies Hollywood puts out and just look at the libs freak out ,stomp their feet and spew their venom over a 3 hour event.

Ahhhhh, I love it so!

I support Glenn and Sarah and their friends right to gather and take a stand for something. I certainly agree our government is too corrupt, bought and paid for, and we need to make some changes. I’d like to see more rational fact based discussion rather than insults , from both sides. How about helping out by not lumping all libs together in order to mock them? Our country is not a team sport where one side wins. The hope is we all win.

CosmosDan said:
I support Glenn and Sarah and their friends right to gather and take a stand for something. I certainly agree our government is too corrupt, bought and paid for, and we need to make some changes. I’d like to see more rational fact based discussion rather than insults , from both sides. How about helping out by not lumping all libs together in order to mock them? Our country is not a team sport where one side wins. The hope is we all win.

United We Stand! Divided We Fall!

right on Dan!

Oops, sorry. I had family drop in unexpectedly, and couldn’t reply. I discussed my feelings on the mosque in the other thread, so don’t need to rehash them here – but I believe it will be used by the Muslim extremists as a symbol of their *victory* on 9/11. That is why I oppose it. I think if the builders were honest in their intent to build bridges they would have moved it when people – including some of the families of 9/11 victims and 9/11 first responders, and the father of Daniel Pearl – started expressing their opposition. Instead of understanding and being sensitive to their feelings, and expressing a willingness to discuss moving the mosque, opponents were called hurtful names. Supporters use these arguments like *how far is far enough – when will they stop* yada yada. The wheels fell through the roof of this building. People were breathing the ashes of the dead on this block. This was part of ground zero. That is why I have the belief that if constructed, it will be used as a symbol of victory, and US defeat by our enemies. That’s how I see it, can’t help it.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/glenn-beck-responds-to-al-sharpton-what-part-of-honor-are-you-against/

My, My, while Bloomberg is defending Beck, little Johnny is pissing his pants. Keep them wet johnny!

Cosmo, didn’t you mother tell you to speak when spoken too?

I have posted many “rational points” on this issue for a week. I don’t see the need to repeat them over and over for some fool like you that either can’t read or understand a “rational point” when he sees one.

The “rational point” on Bloomy is that he must be stupid since no one is argueing that the Muslims don’t have a right to build their Mosque but if they should build it. How hard is that for YOU to understand. It appears to be most difficult fot that brilliant mayor.

sarainitaly said:
Oops, sorry. I had family drop in unexpectedly, and couldn’t reply. I discussed my feelings on the mosque in the other thread, so don’t need to rehash them here – but I believe it will be used by the Muslim extremists as a symbol of their *victory* on 9/11. That is why I oppose it. I think if the builders were honest in their intent to build bridges they would have moved it when people – including some of the families of 9/11 victims and 9/11 first responders, and the father of Daniel Pearl – started expressing their opposition. Instead of understanding and being sensitive to their feelings, and expressing a willingness to discuss moving the mosque, opponents were called hurtful names. Supporters use these arguments like *how far is far enough – when will they stop* yada yada. The wheels fell through the roof of this building. People were breathing the ashes of the dead on this block. This was part of ground zero. That is why I have the belief that if constructed, it will be used as a symbol of victory, and US defeat by our enemies. That’s how I see it, can’t help it.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/glenn-beck-responds-to-al-sharpton-what-part-of-honor-are-you-against/

Thanks for an respectful honest response. I don’t see how a new building there by Americans for Americans is any symbol of victory for our enemies, unless we want to group all 1.5 billion Muslims together. That seems wrong to me.
I just can’t see basing a decision concerning civil liberties in America between American citizens on what our enemies may or may not think. Whatever we decide they’ll still hate us and use it against us. It’s an issue among Americans and what we think and the principles involved matter more than their opinion.
I think you’ll find that families of 9/11 victims also support it , and Muslim Americans died in 9/11 and in our military defending the civil liberties involved. Do we extend to our fellow citizens the same sensitivity and consideration we ask for? They’ve been there for months and months and nobody seemed to have any problem. It seems it’s only improving the property that people have a problem with.
Relocating isn’t that simple or cheap. If folks want to help then perhaps the opposition should help them relocate in real world practical terms. Help find an alternative location and the finances to help them move rather than just shutting them down.
That’s how I see it.
and again I agree there’s been too much name calling on both sides. I just don’t see how the opposition can sustain a reasonable argument without somehow associating American Muslims , or all Muslims with terrorism. That kind of mindset , although perhaps not intended as hateful, can only be based in a form of bigotry. My concern is we are letting emotions get the better of our principles.

sarainitaly said:
Calling someone a terrorist supporter is a loaded weapon meant to intimidate people into staying silent.

fixed

gordonbloyershow said:
Cosmo, didn’t you mother tell you to speak when spoken too?

I have posted many “rational points” on this issue for a week. I don’t see the need to repeat them over and over for some fool like you that either can’t read or understand a “rational point” when he sees one.

The “rational point” on Bloomy is that he must be stupid since no one is argueing that the Muslims don’t have a right to build their Mosque but if they should build it. How hard is that for YOU to understand. It appears to be most difficult fot that brilliant mayor.

okay Gordon. I’ll be on the lookout for your rational arguments in the future and I sincerely hope to see some.
As I told you before. There’s the letter of the Constitution and there’s the spirit behind it. To argue they have the right but shouldn’t exercise their rights is IMO a violation of principles Americans have made many sacrifices for. The whole sensitivity argument , however sincere, doesn’t hold up to the facts and reason. It’s purely emotional. There is no way to make the argument without associating American Muslims , or all Muslims with terrorists. That kind of association is the seed of bigotry we should be standing up against. I hope our goal isn’t to let our emotions move us to sacrifice our principles. Saying they technically have the right while actively protesting for them to not exercise those rights is working against those principles.
There is no insult or insensitivity involved in American citizens exercising their civil liberties unless you label them and lump them into a group. Those aren’t the principles I choose to support. I think the spirit of our Constitution than a misguided view of propriety.

Correction;
I think the spirit of our Constitution is more important than a misguided view of propriety when facing this issue and the choices involved.

Again Gordon; I’d encourage those against Park 51 to offer some real world practical help in the relocation they want. If you’re asking your fellow Americans to sacrifice millions for the sake of your sensitivity then at least offer to help out.

Careful Cosmos, your making rational sense, and interesting arguments.

Notsofast, and Gordo might start calling you names.
You do agree however, that it is their right to protest the building of the Center do you not?

Socrates69 said:
You do agree however, that it is their right to protest the Constitution do you not?

Fixed for chickenshit right-wingers who are too weasely to admit the truth that they don’t support all our freedoms for certain factions of our society.

sarainitaly said:
Hacks and Non-Entities at Media Matters Used GMA Clip as Proof Glenn Beck ‘Liked’ Ground Zero Imam Also Used Same Clip in 2006 to Call Beck a Muslim Hater

http://bigjournalism.com/jdunetz/2010/08/26/hacks-and-non-entities-at-media-matters-used-gma-clip-as-proof-glenn-beck-liked-ground-zero-imam-also-used-same-clip-in-2006-to-call-beck-a-muslim-hater/#more-111305

Terrifying anti-Muslim crime wave sweeping America, probably
http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/27/terrifying-anti-muslim-crime-wave-sweeping-america-probably/

The efforts by those on the left to attack Beck, and conservatives, are becoming more and more hilarious. They are looking like desperate unhinged loons.

Supporters of the Mosque keep railing about the *constitutional rights* to build there, and to their freedom of religion, meanwhile trying to squash the rights of those who are speaking out against the Mosque.

The opponents should have a right to protest, and express their opposition, without being called hateful bigoted islamaphobes. 9/11 affected every American – not just New Yorkers, and everyone has an opinion.

I guess the Supporters have the *right* to express their anger at those who oppose, but they are doing so in hopes of squelching the opposition out of fear of being labeled racist. That is stomping on their constitutional rights to freely express themselves, and express their opposition.

Opponents aren’t trying to dictate constitutional rights – they are appealing to the sensitivities and *supposed* good intentions of those behind the Mosque. Supporters are trying to dictate constitutional rights of the opponents by attacking them for expressing their opinions and concerns through ugly, hurtful name calling attacks.

So, if I think that what you are saying is racist or Islamaphobia, then I am squashing your right to freedom of speech? Is it just me or have we moved into a culture where criticism and harsh rhetoric is the exact same thing as the government telling you what you can and cannot say. You can say what you want. And I have the right to call you a racist or Islamaphobe if I feel that you have treaded into that territory. If you can handle being called an Islamophobe, then stay out of discussions about religion. (I’m channelling Dr. Laura here. :) ) Calling someone a racist (whether right or wrong) doesn’t violate anyone’s freedom of speech.

Socrates69 said:
Careful Cosmos, your making rational sense, and interesting arguments.

Notsofast, and Gordo might start calling you names.
You do agree however, that it is their right to protest the building of the Center do you not?

absolutely. I welcome them expressing them selves. I just hope when questioned they will consider the principles and the facts involved rather than just their own emotion. One of the greatest things about our founding principles IMO is the idea that I need to defend the rights I want for myself, for people I disagree with. It isn’t easy and we haven’t been perfect at it, but God Bless America, we’re still trying and I think improving.

Big_F-ing_Deal said:
Fixed for chickenshit right-wingers who are too weasely to admit the truth that they don’t support all our freedoms for certain factions of our society.

Maybe you should refrain from altering other people’s posts as well as the name calling. Just a suggestion.

Big_F-ing_Deal said:
fixed

again, maybe you can make your point without altering other people’s words.

Bloomburg is all about money. I bet, if we fallowed the money we’d find the answer to Bloomburgs misrepresentation of the ideology behind his corrupt involvement in something this hurtful to American citizens.
Bloomburg should be re-called!

Cosmo apparently you have not been following the story too closely. Donald Trump offered to buy the building for more than they paid for it. Gov. Patterson offered them state land FREE to move it. Now who is being unreasonable? ALL the polling even in NYC says that a large majoritiy oppose it in that location.
If they are trying to reach out they need to learn how to do it.

The clowns that protest at the military funerals have a Constitutional right to do it, but is it right to do it? That is the question and the ONLY question. It has NOTHING to do with the Constitution or hatred of Muslims.
They can make enemies or they can make friends. This is not going away. They will not build it. No construction worker will work there. They will be blocked all the way. It is clear they are trying to spit in Americas face.

CAconservative said:
Bloomburg is all about money. I bet, if we fallowed the money we’d find the answer to Bloomburgs misrepresentation of the ideology behind his corrupt involvement in something this hurtful to American citizens.
Bloomburg should be re-called!

You know he only gets paid a dollar for being Mayor right?You’re aware the people who want to build Park 51 are also Americans aren’t you.

I don’t see how he misrepresented anything.

gordonbloyershow said:
Cosmo apparently you have not been following the story too closely. Donald Trump offered to buy the building for more than they paid for it. Gov. Patterson offered them state land FREE to move it. Now who is being unreasonable? ALL the polling even in NYC says that a large majoritiy oppose it in that location.
If they are trying to reach out they need to learn how to do it.

The clowns that protest at the military funerals have a Constitutional right to do it, but is it right to do it? That is the question and the ONLY question. It has NOTHING to do with the Constitution or hatred of Muslims.
They can make enemies or they can make friends. This is not going away. They will not build it. No construction worker will work there. They will be blocked all the way. It is clear they are trying to spit in Americas face.

Right. State land outside of lower Manhattan which is where they live. A generous offer that is not very realistic.

Bloomberg told reporters Wednesday that he disagreed with Gov. David Paterson’s offer of state land outside of lower Manhattan to the builders of the 13-story mosque and community center, called Park51.
read about it http://dnainfo.com/20100811/downtown/michael-bloomberg-dismisses-david-patersons-offer-move-ground-zero-mosque
“If the governor wants to offer [it], he can speak for himself,” Bloomberg said, with Paterson standing beside him. “I’m just telling you that I’ve always believed the government should not be involved in deciding who you pray to, what you say and where you say it. “

and Patterson said; Paterson said he was not trying to overstep the boundaries of government.

“We’re not talking about mixing church and state,” Paterson said. “We’re not talking about putting a church on state property.”

He added, “I hope that the type of cultural understanding that we’re trying to promote when we build the center could be practiced right now.”

I can’t find anything on Trump offering to buy it. He suggested they sell it for a small profit but that’s not an offer. Are you sure that’s correct?

Gordon, the majority isn’t always right and civil liberties weren’t determined by polls.
Those folks from Westboro Baptist are despicable in their hatred but I don’t dispute their right to express it. also don’t lump all Baptists in with them.
It has to do with choosing supporting the principles of the Constitution with our actions rather than just words. Southerners used to say”Black people are decent folk, as long as they know their place” Were Black Americans making enemies by insisted on equal treatment? Were they wrong to do so?
Gordon, they ARE Americans. Are they spitting in their own face by wanting equal treatment?
Serious question; Since there is a Mosque 4 blocks away do you consider that far enough? Should they property in their won neighborhood?

What are we supposed to believe? Seriously, If sharks, bears or lions eat your family are you just supposed to believe all the bullshit when you see prancing idiots proclaiming that the beasts are simply misunderstood and you know for sure it is just a matter of time before they are devoured due to the inherent nature of what they are dealing with? Yeah, I get it. Don’t blame the beast for being the beast even if it kills you because that is the true nature of it. Basic Rule of Survival: SURVIVE. Isn’t Islam ISLAM or did I miss something in the fine print of obsessive compulsive religious extremists that are instructed to destroy all infidels (non-Islamic). Is the part where you say there are killers and then there are killers? Poppycock

Brett Williams said:
What are we supposed to believe? Seriously, If sharks, bears or lions eat your family are you just supposed to believe all the bullshit when you see prancing idiots proclaiming that the beasts are simply misunderstood and you know for sure it is just a matter of time before they are devoured due to the inherent nature of what they are dealing with? Yeah, I get it. Don’t blame the beast for being the beast even if it kills you because that is the true nature of it. Basic Rule of Survival: SURVIVE. Isn’t Islam ISLAM or did I miss something in the fine print of obsessive compulsive religious extremists that are instructed to destroy all infidels (non-Islamic). Is the part where you say there are killers and then there are killers? Poppycock

Brett are all Christians alike? Are all Baptists like the Westboro Baptists? Are all Catholic priests pedophiles?
It simply doesn’t make sense to paint all 1.5 billion humans that worship as Muslims with that brush you’re wielding. Especially since Muslims have died serving in our armed forces and as first responders at WTC.

gordonbloyershow says: “The “rational point” on Bloomy is that he must be stupid since no one is argueing that the Muslims don’t have a right to build their Mosque but if they should build it.”

Bloomy? Your respect for others is underwhelming. Why should people forego their 1st Amendment rights for the will of the mob? Rights are in place precisely to protect the minorities.

Bloyer, ever hear of the Federalist Papers? Give them a read sometime.

Socrates69 said:
And brilliant. The mayor is actually an impressive guy.

“The Mayor” is a 24k piece of camel dung. As it turns out, Bloomburp sold out his own people to give the permit to build the GZ Islamofascist memorial to al qaeda’s victory over the Great Satan. He caved in to the will of his business partners in the Middle East, so he could feather his own nest. Every Jew should denounce this traitor to Israel. As for me, a humble Greek immigrant who became the most proud of all naturalized citizens, I can only hope Mr. Bloomerberg will ask God’s forgiveness of his offenses.

CosmosDan said:
I need to defend the rights I want for myself, for people I disagree with. It isn’t easy and we haven’t been perfect at it, but God Bless America, we’re still trying and I think improving.

Well said.

pyrope said:
“The Mayor” is a 24k piece of camel dung. As it turns out, Bloomburp sold out his own people to give the permit to build the GZ Islamofascist memorial to al qaeda’s victory over the Great Satan. He caved in to the will of his business partners in the Middle East, so he could feather his own nest. Every Jew should denounce this traitor to Israel. As for me, a humble Greek immigrant who became the most proud of all naturalized citizens, I can only hope Mr. Bloomerberg will ask God’s forgiveness of his offenses.

The people who want Park 51 are American citizens and Manhattan residents. They are his people. Yours and mine too.

GBR, there you go again. People change there mind all the time about what they want because of outside influences.
I guess I have to repeat this again since it does not sink in to the left wing brain….The crack pot religious group that demonstrates at military funerals has the right to do it but is it RIGHT to do it.

The issue of the Mosque is really simple that is why libs change the subject to try to make it complicated.

The “moderate” Muslims can force their Mosque on the people in that location or they can reach out with understanding and move. Their choice. They can make enemies or they can make friends.
How hard is that for all you leftys to understand?

All the “moderate” Muslims have to do is say they understand the feelings of the MAJORITY of New Yorkers and we don’t want to impose ourselves upon them. They would then get help in finding a new location and they could get help building it. Make enemies or make friends. Their CHOICE.

Permatiltx said:
Calling someone a racist (whether right or wrong) doesn’t violate anyone’s freedom of speech.

Sorry, but I think it is used with exactly that intent. People who scream *racist* (especially these past two years) at people for expressing an opposition to something on a topic such as this one – a very sensitive topic due to the tragedy of 9/11 – is very much indeed an attempt to silence the opposition. The hope is that if the racist meme gets shouted loud enough and often enough, the opposition will shut up and go away, for fear that that ugly label will stick. It is a loaded weapon, and those who use it, know it. I have no doubt that the tea party would actually be double in size if they weren’t constantly called racist.

sarainitaly said:
Sorry, but I think it is used with exactly that intent. People who scream *racist* (especially these past two years) at people for expressing an opposition to something on a topic such as this one – a very sensitive topic due to the tragedy of 9/11 – is very much indeed an attempt to silence the opposition. The hope is that if the racist meme gets shouted loud enough and often enough, the opposition will shut up and go away, for fear that that ugly label will stick. It is a loaded weapon, and those who use it, know it. I have no doubt that the tea party would actually be double in size if they weren’t constantly called racist.

I agree with you. The term is used far to easily and I wouldn’t doubt that it’s use is discussed in strategy meetings. I think we need to be very careful about using it. Let’s discuss the issues instead and value individual input. That said, I think the Tea Party can help themselves be more effective by actively and visably denouncing and dealing with any obviously racist fringe that attaches itself to them. Sometimes things that are extreme are falsely labeled as racist. I’d suggest toning it down on the extremes as well. Maybe refernces to Obama as a Muslim, or Hitler, etc. aren’t helping to focus on the real issues. It isn’t easy to manage groups once they get large and the media loves to focus on the most outrageous signs and statements.

gordonbloyershow said:
GBR, there you go again. People change there mind all the time about what they want because of outside influences.I guess I have to repeat this again since it does not sink in to the left wing brain….The crack pot religious group that demonstrates at military funerals has the right to do it but is it RIGHT to do it. The issue of the Mosque is really simple that is why libs change the subject to try to make it complicated. The “moderate” Muslims can force their Mosque on the people in that location or they can reach out with understanding and move. Their choice. They can make enemies or they can make friends.How hard is that for all you leftys to understand? All the “moderate” Muslims have to do is say they understand the feelings of the MAJORITY of New Yorkers and we don’t want to impose ourselves upon them. They would then get help in finding a new location and they could get help building it. Make enemies or make friends. Their CHOICE.

Sometimes it’s about what’s right rather than how the majority feels about it. Support the spirit of our Constitution or not. Your CHOICE.
See how that over simplfying works both ways?

CosmosDan said:
Sometimes it’s about what’s right rather than how the majority feels about it. Support the spirit of our Constitution or not. Your CHOICE.
See how that over simplfying works both ways?

I agree with gordonbloyershow. Just because they can doesn’t mean they should. How many laws are on the books that are even laughable. I am not saying that our Constitution is laughable, but rather bringing example from the other laws by contrast to paint a more reasonable picture. Legally, the bank can take your home. Legally, lots of things are possible and so we hired judges to sort it out. Building a mosque there is like forcing your daughter, the rape victim, to live next to her rapist and telling her that it is perfectly legal so stop being angry.