The choice then becomes, drive to Maryland or Delaware for the abortion?

well no right is total

Well, I agree that the argument that “hey, you consented to the act of intercourse, so the state should get to place anything inside you that it wishes” is foolish, offensive, and illogical.

And, as I stated, if I’m squeamish about abortion–and aware that it has long-term impacts that are easy to discount when one is young–I’m also squeamish about state-mandated medical procedures.

The problem is that when we talk about “medical providers,” most of us think about trusted GPs, or in this case perhaps our regular OB-GYN. Does that apply to every abortion provider? Maybe not: some are, as they say, just in it for the profit.

How much trust are we placing in the abortion clinics to make sure that the fetuses are of an age such that the procedure is legal, and that there are no medical reasons not to go forward with the abortion? After all, plenty went on in Gosnell’s “house of horrors” abortion clinic in PA (not too far from VA) that was illegal, immoral, and anti-woman–no matter where one stands on the issue of abortion.

Requiring one more formal verification that the fetus is legal, and that someone is vouching that this will be safe, really doesn’t sound outrageous to me–particularly given what I’ve had to do to drive a car, or buy a gun, or even get on an airplane.

Do Republicans know how stupid they seem with that law. It’s insulting to all woman eve pro-life ones that this law would legalize forceful penetration.  You may think that abortion is a crime against humanity, but so is sticking a wand in a woman’s vagina without her consent.  Whatever happened to counseling the woman against abortion.  

If I was a woman seeking an abortion and this was done to me, I would not love that baby more, I would be even angrier and more resolved than ever to do it.   Hell as a no fury like a woman scorned or forcefully penetrated.  The GOP in Virginia better remember that.

For the life of me I will never understand why the GOP seems so obsessed with a woman’s vagina 

Another day, another example of Tommy Christopher being too f****** stupid to do even marginally passable research before putting fingers to keyboard.

Particularly appalling is that he couldn’t even do it when singling out Dana Loesch.  He notes she’s at Big Journalism, even provides a link, but apparently could not be bothered to read what she wrote.  If he had read this one  http://bigjournalism.com/dloesch/2012/02/18/false-narrative-abounds-over-virginias-sonogram-law/#more-273656  for example, he would have found the following:

“The pro-abortion progressive lobby has worked extensively this past week to classify Virginia’s straight-forward law as “rape,” even though the law doesn’t dictate what sort of ultrasound should be used…”  

That’s right, kids:  THE VIRGINIA LAW DOES NOT REQUIRE VAGINAL PENETRATION.. 

And where was this little tidbit?  IN THE FIRST SENTENCE.  That’s right:  the idiot child couldn’t be bothered to read one freaking sentence.

To the editors of Mediaite:  I have no idea what sort of dirt on you Christopher has that keeps you from firing him (I suspect the words “pictures,” “farm animals,” and “connubial relations” all enter into the matter), but could you at least hire a research assistant for this incompetent oaf?  I can’t imagine it would cost much to hire someone who can do a better job that he does; I believe severe long-term head trauma facilities have vocational retraining programs that would allow you to pick up someone cheap. 

 So the woman can’t stick a wand yet she can stick a male’s part of his anatomy in? Unless you are talking about forceful acts, then this isn’t a bad action.

I am a female and have no immediate problem with this law.

They think every vagina looks like Reagan.

And in fact, this big battle that I’ve, uh, totally won with Keith Olbermann by the way, like, not only won once but twice and three times… uh, there were individuals saying, [high voice] “Oh what about the Virginia rape? The rapes that, the forced rapes of women who are pregnant?” What!?

Dana may have won the battle against Keith, but she’s losing the war against the voices in her head. 

A medically unnecessary probe forced upon vulnerable women by a group of men in a state legislature which is intended to heap further guilt and humiliation on the women involved for wanting to have a procedure that republicans consider immoral is the same thing as consensual sex? It’s really not.

I can’t begin to imagine what it would be like to be sociopathic enough to believe that the two things are equal and that it’s my right to force that on other people.

 Your response makes zero sense. It’s like saying that because a woman had sex with her husband, every other male who wants to have sex with her has the right to do so because she’s had sex before.

“I object to that!”

-Paul Babeu

Right.  Abdominal ultrasounds are not MEDICALLY recommended without vaginal ultrasounds.  I guess you must mean transRECTAL ultrasounds as an alternative?  Yes, going through the butt is MUCH more humane:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/uog.110/pdf

But this isn’t about medicine or science anyways.  This is about using Government to force a guilt trip onto women who might choose to do something contrary to a conservative’s beliefs, which is of course the wrong kind of freedom. 

The fact that this attempt involves physical trauma on your targets only helps your ulterior motives…of circumventing the law by making more abusive laws…which you conservatives will later decry as abusive government power?  This circular logic is a common theme to all conservative endeavors these days.  We have a phrase for it in the South:  “Piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining,”  all day, every day.

“So the woman can’t stick a wand yet she can stick a male’s part of his anatomy in?”

That’s probably the biggest use of false equivalency I’ve ever seen (and clearly indicative of someone who didn’t read the article.)  You’re literally saying that if a woman chooses to have sex, the government has free reign on her vagina to stick whatever it wants in there.  You Tea Party types have quite a selective definition of “limited government.” 

That’s what it looks like when the Tea Party tries embracing logic.  What a mess…

 No kidding.

You realize that the law doesn’t require a transvaginal ultrasound, right Tommy? And you realize that when you’re getting an abortion, you’re willingly spreading ‘em and inviting medical instruments in, right?

Why would there be guilt or humiliation? It’s not like you’re killing a child, right?

Only crazy ass Republicans think that, amirite?

 But try telling her that she has to help pay for someone else’s birth control and she’ll throw a fit.

 It isn’t the vagina they’re worried about. It’s the human life.

government does it all the time, regulates your body

There’s as much medical and legal support for that as there is for these ultrasounds.

Nonsense. There is most certainly medical and legal support for informed consent.

 Just not of the living, breathing mother’s. Got it.

 Only if you’re a female!

 One is consensual–the other is forced. See the difference?

Nevermind,  you probably don’t.

They’re ending a process that could result in a child, long before it has become one and even then, it is not a decision that anyone takes lightly no matter what people on the right would like to think. All this does is heap extra expense and humiliation on a woman for making the decision that for whatever reason, they are not able to support a child at this point in their life,.

You want fewer abortions, stop attacking contraception, stop attacking the social programs that help poor families and stop pushing to try and have misinformation and failed abstinence programs replace actual sex ed in schools. Having state legislatures force unnecessary procedures on vunerable women then comparing it to sex isn’t how you do it,

I wonder how many times Dana has been forced by law to put weird stuff in her vagina since she lost her virginity…
Maybe I should tweet her that question…I’m sure she won’t mind.

really, drug laws only apply to women….vaccinations for school only apply to women, obamacare only applies to women. wow did not know that

If only the pending legislation required informed consent.  But as is, it is simply a legislative mandate to commit rape by foreign object.  No consent, informed or otherwise is required.

So, once a women consents to have anything in her vagina, it is open house vagina thereafter, for penises, foreign objects, fingers and whatever, right?

And yes, since MOST abortions are 1st trimester transvaginal ultrasounds are the only way, doctor.

Fine mind of the 12th century.

She advocates pissing on corpses, of course she won’t mind. 

Correct.  It is not like you’re killing a child.  Women obtaining abortions are exercising their constitutionally protected rights to sovereignty over  *gasp* their own bodies!  This includes the right to excise their wombs of the undeveloped cluster of cells that ultimately, if left to term, might become a child.

No, it’s unauthorized sexy time by girls to which they object.

Well you know the GOP.  The right to life begins at conception and ends at birth.  After that, it’s “Let HIM DIE!”

Good point.

So once you have a penis in your vagina, your vagina then becomes subject to state mandate requiring insertion of foreign objects ?

Wow!  Glad YOU have no problem with the law.

might become a child, what else might it become?

That’s not what Dana Loesch is saying at all. What disgusts me is that instead of going after the dopes equating a medical procedure that requires consent to a violent sex attack, thereby desensitizing the crime of rape, Tommy Christopher is going after a woman who is quite frankly pointing out that there’s a huge difference between an unwanted penis and an ultrasound wand with a consent form attached. Does this have anything to do at all with Tommy Christopher’s little sidebar with Andrew Breitbart a few days ago?

rights are inviolate and inalienable unless the state can show a competing interest in interfering with that right.  here there is no valid reason for requiring an invasive, medically unnecessary and expensive procedure, much less a competing interest that can possibly weigh in balance against the woman’s right to refuse such an invasive procedure or the doctor’s obligation to his/her patient NOT to perform invasive, medically unneeded procedures.

I don’t think that even if the retrogrades in the VA legislature and the asshat governor of that unfortunate state enact this travesty, it can possibly withstand judicial scrutiny.  Apart from being legislatively forced rape by object, it is also an unwarranted and unjustifiable invasion of the medical profession and its imperatives.

It might become stillborn or miscarried down the line…you can never tell.

Does that include rape?

Please identify one instance where the state has regulated YOUR body.

This is the worse thing Republicans can do.  It’s like non-consented rape by the government.  We are already getting raped by our government but this is going way too far.  

so going out on a limb here, if the law requires the procedure to be done, and you are saying it will have a consent form with it, if the woman does not consent to it, will she be arrested or will the procedure be done without consent?  That I believe is the question at hand

yup

So this is the reason we have no jobs in this country, the economy is ailing, folks are losing their homes, no health insurance………………………………………………………..

 Because having sex with other males is comparable to sex with one’s husband? Logic fail.

An instrument that checks the viability of a life is not comparable to random sex. Sorry Angie.

really, for my kid to go to school he had to have certain vaccinations….which means they inject something foreign into your body

No, that is what the health care mandate issued. The Church is asking for this religious freedom. Keep up.

I have no problem with women paying for their own medical services. I shouldn’t have to pay for an abortion.

 The problem is, you think that’s ok logic to teach.

 You’re wondering how many gyno visits Dana’s had? Creepy.

 A front end loader! Or a Volt! Or a spatula! Who knows?

 No, no one is going to hold women down and give them ultrasounds. There is no force involved.

 You, sir, are an idiot. Consent is most certainly required.

No one is forced by law to put anything in their vagina.

Heh. Hey kids, ever seen a speculum?

PAP SMEARS ARE RAPE!!!

Here’s a hint for the foreign object insertion averse ladies: Stay away from the OB/GYN.

it is also an unwarranted and unjustifiable invasion of the medical profession and its imperatives.

Like Obamacare?

 No, if she doesn’t consent, it won’t be done.

What does this have to do with the mother’s life? And what is she the mother of?

no valid reason to you.

No, it’s required.   

a volvo lol

You should probably check out what Dana actually said on air and wrote about that subject before calling me creepy…just saying.

then i guess she wont be able to get a abortion, thats all

Not what I read about it…but I’m open to a double-check,man,np.
Still,what Dana said is pretty batshit if you ask me.

Point to me a single instance of “Obamacare” mandating a single procedure to be done against the will of a single insured or the recommendation of her doctor.

Just one.

So, once a women consents to have anything in her vagina, it is open
house vagina thereafter, for penises, foreign objects, fingers and
whatever, right?

Absolutely not. Are you brain damaged?

Fine mind of the 12th century.

Yeah, I remember back in the 1100′s when they were constantly performing TVU all willy nilly…

It’s called “rape by instrumentation.”  Look it up.

No, it isn’t. It’s only gas to be done prior to performing an abortion, which is not required of anyone. And neither gets done without a woman’s consent.

Human life by definition , begins at conception, therefor abortion is murder regardless what the U.S. congress says.  All liberals should have been aborted but were not.

The law doesn’t have to “dictate what sort of ultrasound should be used.” For early term pregnancies, those most frequently terminated, transvaginal US is the only one that’ll work.

http://www.arlnow.com/2012/02/14/englin-blasts-gop-bill-for-requiring-vaginal-penetration/ 

Loesch weasels her way through this fact in the following sentence, the one you didn’t bother to quote. 

“ The easiest and most reliable way is the transvaginal ultrasound, more common in the first trimester. ”

And please, please email me to ask why you were banned, lol.

It’s against a woman’s consent. You need to reread the law.  I think the government needs to stay out of the vagina.

Why is there no commiserate culpability for the father of the foetus in this Virginia law? A government mandated urethral or rectal probe wouldn’t seem out of the question.

A penis doesn’t have to be used to rape somebody. If you forcibly stick a broomstick into a woman (or forcibly stick it into a man’s ass, for that matter), it’s just as much rape as if a man did the same thing with their penis. This is state-mandated rape, end of story.

This is what happens when you let Republicans run your government.

 Could that be because you believe it will never apply to you?

That’s pretty butch, deleting a comment and then responding to it. Way to represent.

This is not done against the will of anyone. It cannot and will not be done without consent.

Please cite the portion of the law where it says that pregnant women must have a TVU.

 Rape by instrumentation does not involve consent. This cannot and will not be done without consent.

You people are hysterical, in both meanings of the term.

No. There’s no force involved. At all.

Pablo, at least TRY to give the appearance of intellectual honesty.  Women seeking abortions do NOT consent to transvaginal ultrasounds.  The VA law would require this procedure to be performed.  Things that are mandated by law are not by consent.

No it isn’t.  Do yourself a favor and read the bill.

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+ful+HB462H1+pdf

Only someone who hasn’t read it or doesn’t understand English would conclude that the transvaginal ultrasound required by the putative law is consensual.  It isn’t.  No consent is required.  If a woman in VA wants to have an abortion, which is her right, then the state will force her to undergo this invasive and unnecessary procedure.

Oh, and try and have a discussion without resorting to name calling.

So glad you feel that way.

Anyone having an abortion (including people for whom the abortion is a medically necessary procedure) is forced to be raped by their doctor under this blatantly unconstitutional Virginia law.

It’s funny that cdj failed to address my response to his original question to me.  So, to repeat, not all pregnancies result in the birth of a child.  Some pregnancies miscarry, some terminate in stillbirths.  Either of these unfortunate events can happen even despite a decision to remain pregnant.

However that’s all beside the point, the mother has the rights here, not an undeveloped cell cluster. 

cdj there is a medically sound reason for requiring vaccinations for school kids — namely so they don’t infect other kids with diseases that are highly contagious and dangerous (and even fatal) when a vaccination can inoculate against these diseases.

However, unlike vaccinations, which are performed for public health reasons, requiring a woman who wants to have an abortion to undergo a transvaginal  ultrasound is medically unsound, unnecessary and unjustifiable.

In other words, apples and aluminum siding.

It really doesn’t have to do with the mother’s life if you’re referring to mortality.  A woman’s life is not required to be at risk in order for her to choose to have an abortion.

And, the term “mother” is often referred to in obstetrics to refer to the host of a potential human, otherwise known at various times, as  blasticyst, embryo and fetus.  It has absolutely no significance as used in this discussion except to characterize the pregnant woman.

But I’m absolutely sure you already knew that.

 Right, it has nothing to do with the mother’s life, which was my point.

And, mother. Of some tissue? Clump of cells?

The what? Mother? Of what?

The procedure cannot and will not happen without consent. Nor will an abortion. Consent is absolutely required. What you say the state will force upon her, she must consent to. There is no force. There is only a prerequisite.

No, they must agree to an ultrasound, and to be informed of its results, as a prerequisite to abortion. There is no force.

You lie.

TVU is not required. But they must agree to an ultrasound if they want an abortion. Abortion is not required either. There is no force applied. At all. 

Every right-winged, narrow-minded, TEA-GOP-Republican, anywhere and in every state who back this unconstitutional, intrusive procedure, should be required to get a transvaginal styled ultrasound/Sonogram of the anus prior to their Rectal Encephalectomy. That way they can really feel the intrusion they are committing on women in their effort to force their religious views onto women. 

 An instrument that checks the viability of a life???
You have to be joking, If it were a viable life you could use a ultrasound, the type that used jelly on the belly.

I say before you give your go ahead to the procedure you go have one of these vaginal ultrasounds. And after you find that it’s a waste of your time and money then you might be able to say something about them. Until then I believe that you are full of it.

 Just where do you think this “vaginal” ultrasound is going to go Pablo?

 No, They do NOT have to consent.

Your god isn’t real. Other than following 2,000 year old nonsense there is no reason to deny women this right.

Let me begin by noting most Americans are good people, so called Liberals and conservatives alike, as well as the politically inactive. that being said, how did this asolutely biased,intellectually limited “hack” (with out even a pretense of objectivity) become Mediate’s “White House Correspondent”, when this website actually has a handful of writers, who while they aren’t perfect give it the ol’ college try?

Ironic that you reference the “Occupy” movement in your headline, Tommy, while whitewashing the ACTUAL RAPES at various occupations across the country. Shakes head…..

Duress or coercion negates consent. 

Pissing on the Taliban? Not a bad idea actually. Although I wouldnt release the video lol

Has the “enlightened”" Tommy noted that the ultrasounds involved DO NOT have to be done by “inserting” anything but can also being of the well known on the belly variety? Also for god sakes Tommy, the women are about to (willingly) have their “goods” forced open and a vacuum, and or scrapping object etc etc INSERTED IN, I dont think the ultrasound is going to traumatize them more than that. But again to reiterate there is no mandate for the ultrasoiund to be the so called “trans-vaginal” variety. Stop lying

By force? Nowhere.

There’s no duress, there’s no coercion.

Yes. they do. No one throws them down, tears their clothes off and performs an ultrasound.

1. ”Only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester, which is when most abortions occur.”

2. Women up to nine weeks pregnant have the option of a nonsurgical, noninvasive, pharmaceutical abortion. 

http://www.arlnow.com/2012/02/14/englin-blasts-gop-bill-for-requiring-vaginal-penetration/ 

If you have to do a transvaginal ultrasound to find the tiny collection of inchoate cells that make up a zygote, then there is no viability of life.

Churches have not lost one iota of religious freedom.  There is NO, I repeat NO Constitutional guarantee of religious exemption for anyone that runs a business, including a church.  What really makes me sick about all this Tea Party Constitution waiving idiots? Is that they have absolutely no knowledge about what they speak.  For all they know the Constitution comes in roll form with the words “Scott” printed on the outer wrapper.
The Supreme Court was very clear in a case called Employment Division v. Smith,
written by none other than Antonin Scalia (an Opus Dei Catholic by the way), that “religious believers and
institutions are not entitled to an exemption from generally applicable
laws.”
But when you start citing facts, then you get labeled as “elite”.  This is what Murdoch, FOX, AFP, and all the other moneyed interests have done to our country.

Inanimate object sexual penetration (e.g. into a vagina) against one’s will (e.g. without consent) which is MEDICALLY UNNECESSARY is a felony:

prev | next

§ 18.2-67.2. Object sexual penetration; penalty.
A. An accused shall be guilty of inanimate or animate object sexual
penetration if he or she penetrates the labia majora or anus of a complaining
witness, whether or not his or her spouse, other than for a bona fide medical
purpose, or causes such complaining witness to so penetrate his or her own body
with an object or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her
spouse, to engage in such acts with any other person or to penetrate, or to be
penetrated by, an animal, and
1. The complaining witness is less than 13 years of age, or
2. The act is accomplished against the will of the complaining witness, by
force, threat or intimidation of or against the complaining witness or another
person, or through the use of the complaining witness’s mental incapacity or
physical helplessness.

Of COURSE it is – no CONSENT is required. The doctors don’t want to do this either. The legislature is opening them up to charges of sexual battery since this is not a bona fide medical  necessity (it may be a political necessity for some uber-conservatives but there is no medical reason to do this – and it may, in fact, be very painful.)

Yeah, I read the original comment, and while it was rude, it isn’t exactly a profile in courage for Christopher to not give whathisface (I can’t remember the name) a chance to fire back.

And just out of curiosity, do the writers here even have their emails listed?  I haven’t seen them anywhere.

Why are you always ending sentences with prepositions?

OHNOES!!! Planned Parenthood has been raping women all along!!! Sometimes twice!!!

“Patients who have a surgical abortion generally come in for two
appointments. At the first visit we do a health assessment, perform all the necessary lab work, and do an ultrasound. This visit generally takes about an hour. At the second visit, the procedure takes place. This visit takes about an hour as well. For out of town patients for whom it would be difficult to make two trips to our office, we’re able to schedule both the initial appointment and the procedure on the same day.

Medical abortions generally require three visits. At the first visit, we do a health assessment, perform all the necessary lab work, and do an ultrasound. This visit takes about an hour. At the second visit, the physician gives the first pill and directions for taking two more pills at home. The third visit is required during which you will have an exam and another ultrasound.”

http://tinyurl.com/6rggup4

Why do only women have a unilateral right to have sex, followed by the right to terminate responsibility for support of a potential or actual child?

Women have a unilateral right to terminate a pregnancy, without notice to or consent by the male who provided the sperm.  Fair enough.  Women have a unilateral right to hand over a born, living child to a police station, fire station, emergency room, without notice to or consent by the male who provided the sperm, and walk away from any obligation to raise or support the child.

Why shouldn’t men have the same unilateral, legal right to disclaim any obligation to support a potential child in utero, or an actual child in the flesh, within a reasonable period of time after receiving written confirmation of paternity?

Please.

Can we all agree that the impotent, white, conservative, religious males in Virginia will switch their Neanderthal attentions to diddling each other instead of forcing themselves into the vaginas of free females?

Just give it up — go into a locker room somewhere with your taxpayer-paid Blackberries — take a few snaps (thumbnails will likely do) — and log-on to the closest porn site?

I’m sorry that Mommy did not give you enough nipple time, but leave the rest of us ALONE.

When the comment is attacking someone’s employer, it’s usually wise for the employee to look after his/her employer’s interest.  Insulting your employer in a public forum practically requires an employee to respond.  Most conservatives would understand that…or I should say most conservatives before this generation would.

But by all means, wax lyrical about your Constitutional oppression on a forum that is paid for and provided without charge to you. Or whine that you are not satisfied with this forum for your childish rage until you get the personal emails of everyone you disagree with? T-R-O-lololololololol.

I don’t know why you’re saying I’m whining about my constitutional oppression; I just agreed that not letting the other guy respond isn’t exactly Marquis of Queensbury.  As for the emails, I only asked because Christopher told the guy to email him.  Since I’ve previously wanted to email another writer but couldn’t find it, Christopher’s comment made me wonder if I’d been looking in the right place.

50% of all conceptions result in spontaneous abortion (i.e. miscarriage)

Apparently you get an ultrasound when you go to Planned Parenthood to get an abortion:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/grossly-misrepresenting-virginias-proposed-ultrasound-law_631691.html

Here’s the key bit:

In other words, a woman seeking an abortion is already required by standard practice to show up for a separate doctor’s visit and receive an ultrasound. A woman seeking an abortion would only be affected by this law in one way: the doctor would offer her the chance to view the ultrasound.

Uh, you do know that most of Gosnell’s procedures were references for late term abortions and many of the women were poor and or immigrants and they were forced into late term abortions because they had to save money for the procedures.

I believe that 90% of abortions are performed during the first trimester so your rant moot.

“‘Amy Bryant, an OB/GYN at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill who offers abortions as part of her practice, said, however, that, ‘there is no absolute medical necessity for this,’ and the determination to do an abortion, ‘should be at the physician’s discretion.’
‘Physicians that do abortions are fully medically trained and know when it’s indicated to do an ultrasound or not, and do it accordingly,’ Bryant said. ‘And sometimes, women present for abortion having had an ultrasound elsewhere. Requiring them to have this specific kind of ultrasound prior to an abortion can be stressing, can be unnecessary… and, in my opinion, should not be mandated in such a way that it might not be medically necessary for a particular patient.’”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/virginia-likely-to-require-ultrasound-for-abortion/ 

“Uh,” yes. I’m well aware that Gosnell’s clinic served the poor and powerless, and those who were seeking to terminate late-term abortions. I do not believe either group should be abandoned to the unscrupulous, as Gosnell’s patients/victims were.

The point is not when the abortion is performed; the point is whether the state has an interest in making sure that medical and ethical standards are upheld. I believe it does, and that it would even if these ultrasounds were likely to be conducted trans-vaginally (they are much more likely to be done with an abdominal ultrasound).

Black’s Law Dictionary essentially defines duress as any unlawful threat or coercion used to pressure another to do something they would not otherwise do.  

If a woman is submitting to the procedure only because she has no other choice to get an abortion, the woman is being pressured into doing something she would not otherwise do. 

As in all rape cases, the issue is consent. 

In the standard operating procedure you are citing to a woman is consenting to a transvaginal ultrasound because she feels that it is (and it is) medically relevant to the abortion. 

 Trans-vaginal ultrasounds are only required when a fetus is too small to detect with an external ultrasound.

Therefore, BY DEFINITION, any trans-vaginal ultrasound would be performed on an “early-term” fetus. So, we are still left with the fact that there is no medical or legal justification for this state-sanctioned assault.

Getting an object shoved into one of your orifices by a stranger against your will is never OK. It doesn’t matter what the object is.

 You’re incorrect. This law would require a transvaginal ultrasound would be for any woman seeking an abortion in the first trimester. Not recommend, REQUIRE.

So, it’s either get penetrated or carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. Doesn’t sound like much of a choice there…

Okay–you seem to have the impression that the trans-vaginal ultrasounds are required. They are not.

ALL that is required is an ordinary ultrasound (of whichever type), which is standard enough practice that Planned Parenthood itself performs one as a matter of routine before any abortion.

The law only legislates a procedure that is considerd part of “best practices” among many abortion providers, including the largest one in the country.

There’s a difference between “ultrasound” and “vaginal ultrasound”. The vast majority of ultrasounds do not involve sticking a probe up the woman’s vagina. Moron.

The crime of rape will be
defined as “penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with
any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another
person, without the consent of the victim,” In other words….State Mandated Rape….

The crime of rape defined as “penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with
any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another
person, without the consent of the victim,” In other words….State Mandated Rape….One decision by the woman to have an abortion should not force her to undergo a procedure that is medically unnecessary just so the religious right and the GOP can sleep better….Please stop hiding behind the 1st amendment of religious freedom….If you are for the 1st amendment, you have to be for all the amendments of the constitution…..The constitution is not your Bible, Quran or Torah…you can’t pick and choose which sections you’re going to adhere to….Stop this war on women….and get on with the business at hand….fix the economy, create the jobs and leave our bodies ALONE!

Your saying the trans-vaginal ultrasounds are not being required by this law when all the reporting on the issue states that is specifically the requirement! Perhaps you didn’t read the articale you are posting to. Its stated in the first sentence and through out the piece. Care to clarify?

The key difference (besides being told by frightened little legislator boys) is that the wand is not shoved up their vaginas.

Pablo, is English your second language?

Or have you simply NOT read the legislation?

read the legislation, linked above.

Or learn English?

Most abortions are performed within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and ultrasounds performed during this period are transvaginal because the cell cluster is too small to be clearly seen by abdominal.

However, the asshat governor of VA has backed off his declaration that he will sign the bill.  If he has any brains at all, he will walk it back ALL the way and then run for his life.

 Women also sign consent forms before such procedures and are informed of what’s going to take place either written or verbally before signing. The woman in question has the CHOICE to go elsewhere to seek an abortion. Your argument is invalid.

As I said before, I don’t agree with the law. But I also think referring to a medical procedure as rape trivializes the actual crime of rape.

Tommy used the word “many,” and in using that word he was giving himself some wiggle room, while still assuming that a lot of the providers would opt to give the trans-vaginal version of the ultrasound. But as has been pointed out here, it’s far more likely that the vast, vast majority of these women will get the abdominal type of ultrasound, since that’s more standard for the gestational stages the reflect the woman or girl actually knowing she’s pregnant.

Let’s look at the language of the law:

“Except in the case of a medical emergency, at least 2 hours before the
performance of an abortion a qualified medical professional trained in
sonography and working under the direct supervision of a physician
licensed in the Commonwealth shall perform fetal ultrasound imaging and
auscultation of fetal heart tone services on the patient undergoing the
abortion for the purpose of determining gestational age. The ultrasound image shall be made pursuant to standard medical practice in the community,
[emphasis mine] contain the dimensions of the fetus, and accurately
portray the presence of external members and internal organs of the
fetus, if present or viewable.”

So that is obviously going to leave it to the discretion of the practitioner–whether he/she opts for an abdominal or a trans-vaginal ultrasound.

You may read the bill here.

I thought patients have the right to refuse procedures. Now invasive procedures can be forced on a person?

The obvious goal of this law, which also requires 24 hours between ultrasound and abortion, is to inconvenience and guilt-trip women… and potentially drive up the cost of an abortion, making it even less available. 

What makes this “rape” in my mind is the fact that Virginian women do not even have the option of consenting. An attempt to at least require consent of the woman before proceeding with the ultrasound was rejected.

Refusing to obtain consent is what rape is all about. Sex is just the means by which abusive control is manifested. In this case, the government is demanding that medical professionals do the deed for them, thus abusing yet another person.

Careful, your knuckles are dragging on the floor.

Its not ‘like’ it is.

Yes, how horrible! Obama trying to give quality medial care to every American directly correlates to the government forcing a woman to have a PROBE stuck up her vagina to get a legal medical procedure.