What a joke. The target map will be used again and again by many political consultants. It has been used for years. Ask Bob Beckel, he even takes credit for being the first to use it.
Giffords district was not the lone target in Arizona. LOOK at that map again, it listed four congressman.
NOBODY is putting pressure on Palin to speak except the left-wing loons like poor Tommy here.
Candidates are ALWAYS targeted in political campaigns and they always will be.
No apologies are needed from Palin or anyone else. The tagets have nothing to do with shooting people and no matter how hard you try to play that game it won’t work except on loony lib women. Those woman think that taking toy guns away from children is the same as gun control.
The American people need to target the press and its phony reporters that put out this crap. PUT them out of business.

Why do you care so much what she thinks? I don’t want you to take this the wrong way, but you’re becoming a bit like Andrew Sullivan: a pathological obsession that has far, far exceeded near fetishism and is has become boring and quite frankly uninteresting.

The advantage of an apology, though, is that it gives Palin the chance to place the issue in its proper context, to say “I shouldn’t have used that image, I’m sorry I did, but it did not cause this tragedy. Focusing attention on a poor decision that I made does a disservice to the lives that were shattered on Saturday, which should be occupying all of our hearts and minds.”

Such an apology would have the added advantage of being the right thing to do. Sarah Palin is not the victim in this story, but neither is she its villain. Her part of this conversation should end, and she should be the one to end it
Very nice Tommy.

Regardless of what you think of Palin, this is a defining moment for her. This could be literally make or break for her and it could finally be the answer of what she is and what she means to America, conservative pundit or aspiring leader. But she NEEDS to say something, anything; laying low is not really an option for her right now.

If I were Sarah Palin, I wouldn’t give the media shit. If she wants to look “presidential,” she’ll “stay above the fray.” Of course that really isn’t her style, but maybe she’s learned something.

“For everyone but existing Palin loyalists, this argument is over.”

I’m not a “Palin loyalist” and the argument isn’t over. Then again, I’m not far-left hack that attempts to blame Palin for everything that goes on in the world.

“As responsible media figures point out time and again, there is absolutely no evidence of a causal link, nor is anyone in the mainstream media suggesting one, but the juxtaposition will continue to dog Palin unless she does something to mitigate it.”

Haha. What they’re doing is out of your playbook Tommy. “Is Sarah Palin responsible? Some say yes, we’ll discuss coming up next”. “While we can’t directly link Palin to the shooting, blah, blah, blah. Tea partiers, blah”.

Nice cover, Tommy but the coverage from the MSM has been reprehensible and dangerous…and you know it.

gordonbloyershow said:
NOBODY is putting pressure on Palin to speak

Is this because they are afraid of what will come out of her mouth? Of course people are waiting to see what she says.Palin loves her name out there when its to her money making benefit.I kinda feel a little sorry for her.It must weigh heavy on her and her group that the targeted person got shot in the head just days after mentioning how dangerous it is to put crosshairs on a map.

lonestar77 said:
Nice cover, Tommy but the coverage from the MSM has been reprehensible and dangerous…and you know it.

If you have anything to offer besides name-calling and made-up quotes, I’m listening. An actual argument, facts/links to support it?

Tommy, just look at your own site. It’s posted several stories of libs outright accusing the right of murder. Do we really need us to post links to your own site?

Hey ROX of ROX, the shooting took place a mere 2 DAYS after a Daily Kos article absolutely railing against Gifford and ending with, she’s dead to me. Look in the mirror hypo!

Tommy Christopher said:
If you have anything to offer besides name-calling and made-up quotes, I’m listening. An actual argument, facts/links to support it?

Aside from the Krug, Kos (who thankfully isn’t MSM) and letting the sheriff hang himself, I haven’t seen anything aside from Iago like innuendos that go over about 90% of people’s heads although I admit I’ve shunned a lot of media outlets since they got the narrative wrong coming out of the tragedy.

I admire her for staying out of the spotlight and just taking the licks in the past few days . It put herself above the loons of the left . In which she is .
Her staying low , is best in light of the fact there are Victims here . There is plenty of time . Time is on her side here .

Sarah Palin: Don’t retreat, just reload

This how everybody should solves life’s little problems.

The coverage from the media has been awful, disgraceful and embarrassing. Sarah Palin was accused of murder. Murder! For using an image that is used by Democrats and Republicans. She was even accused by Markos, despite his almost identical imagery!

Even though she is 100% NOT responsible, and has been on the receiving end of the most VILE and extreme hate we have ever seen, she is most likely remaining silent because she is speechless, and feeling terrible, having actually been so very wrongly and most unfairly blamed for the murder of 6 innocent people.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Tommy, just look at your own site. It’s posted several stories of libs outright accusing the right of murder. Do we really need us to post links to your own site?

How about Sean Hannity callin the shooter a “pot smoking liberal”. That’s probably just fine with you isn’t it?

Tommy Christopher said:
If you have anything to offer besides name-calling and made-up quotes, I’m listening. An actual argument, facts/links to support it?

I do. First off, I can’t stand the woman personally. Let me get that out of the way. But to say that “no one serious is blaming her” is beyond ridiculous.

Lets take a look at Olbermann. I watched almost all of his special edition of Countdown. Time and time again he would lead off with a statement such as “Well, we don’t have any facts, but…” and then he would go into a 10 minute diatribe about Palin. Probably 80%, if not more, of that show was dedicated to Palin and her map. He kept mentioning what happened in Arizona and then he would start talking about Palin and her map and her rhetoric. And then he would talk about Palin and her map and her rhetoric and then immediately reference the shooting that occured. ANY person with an IQ about 25 would know exactly what he was trying to do. Without saying the words “Palin is more than partially responsible for these attacks” he was saying “Palin is more than partially responsible for these attacks”. When you say that you have no facts to back up what you are saying but you then go on for almost 2 hours talking about the same exact person, the same exact map and then immediately referencing the shooting, you are saying something without saying the words.

And lets not get started on the Sheriff and Paul Krugman…

Sara, I tend to agree with Tammy Bruce (formerly lib til she regained her sanity). She was on BillO last night and said that the left’s attacks on her will backfire big time. It’s already happening now that the evidence is coming out and doesn’t AT ALL support what they say. She is looking like the reasonable one by keeping quiet since the facts aren’t in. The left is realizing they stepped in it BIG time and are now trying to backtrack.

Hey John, Sean was quoting people who actually knew the guy. They said that!!

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Hey ROX of ROX

Again its ROCKSTEADY not rox, tho there is another poster you seem to have a problem with called roxsteady.

^I meant to say “with an IQ ABOVE 25″, not about…

Now Tommy, do you still need those links are were you able to find them on your homepage? I’d be happy to help.

Moral of this story… if you put cross-hairs (not a target or a bullseye), but actual cross-hairs to simulate the site of gun, on a person’s district whom you don’t want re-elected… and that person ends up getting shot, people are going to ask questions. And if you fancy yourself a leader of the free world, you’d better be able to take the heat. Otherwise, don’t talk the talk.

Imagine for a moment if Barack Obama put a cross-hair on Alaska and a certain half-term gov got shot…. think anyone might have an issue with that? Or hypothetically, what if a “fair and balanced” TV host uttered “Tiller the baby-killer needs to be stopped” over and over on his program and this Tiller ended up dead… would anyone have a problem with….. oh nevermind, we already know that answer.

gordonbloyershow said:
What a joke.

Its nice to see you finally realized that you are.

Again its ROCKSTEADY not rox, tho there is another poster you seem to have a problem with called roxsteady.

I have a problem with BOTH of you and call you both that. You’re both ignorant liberals. It’s just my good luck you didn’t have any creativity with your name.

ROCKSTEADY said:
Again its ROCKSTEADY not rox, tho there is another poster you seem to have a problem with called roxsteady.

please forgive her. she needs becks blackboard for reference.

sarainitaly said:
For using an image that is used by Democrats and Republicans.

How come Palin jerked her “image” off her site right after the shooting?

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Daily Kos article

I bet alot more people know about Palin and her target map than Daily Kos.Both were not very smart now were they.

RunSarahRun, I’ve heard several libs on TV the last couple days say the crosshairs argument is ridiculous because it’s just a part of political life. BOTH parties talk in those terms. There is a DNC map just like Sarah’s. Nice try though!!

Great Spin Box of ROX!

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Hey John, Sean was quoting people who actually knew the guy

And you’re a dmaned liar.

Yes Sarah is driving hate, especially when she told her supporters “When they bring a knife, we bring a gun”. What? … that was Obama? Nevermind.

John says:

How come Palin jerked her “image” off her site right after the shooting?

Perhaps because libs were trying to score politcal points out of a tragedy over it.

a dmaned > damned liar

John, Not lying, try doing just a little bit of research. I promise it won’t hurt!!

Sarah Palin is furious about the tragedy not for the victims and their families, but for how her presidential ambitions have taken a big step backwards due to all of this negative publicity.

sarainitaly said:
The coverage from the media has been awful, disgraceful and embarrassing. Sarah Palin was accused of murder. Murder! For using an image that is used by Democrats and Republicans. She was even accused by Markos, despite his almost identical imagery! Even though she is 100% NOT responsible, and has been on the receiving end of the most VILE and extreme hate we have ever seen, she is most likely remaining silent because she is speechless, and feeling terrible, having actually been so very wrongly and most unfairly blamed for the murder of 6 innocent people.

drama queen #2 is back.

NO ONE said she was responsible!

Bullcrap they didn’t WTF. Stop playing dumb and trying to rewrite very recent history. It’s not going to work!

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
John says: How come Palin jerked her “image” off her site right after the shooting? Perhaps because libs were trying to score politcal points out of a tragedy over it.

Mmmm, guilty conscience is my guess. Not that she’s guilty of killing anyone but certainly played her part in ramping up the reload.

w_t_f said:
drama queen #2 is back.

NO ONE said she was responsible!

Markos Moulistas did. And he runs arguably the most influential liberal blog on the internet.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Sara, I tend to agree with Tammy Bruce (formerly lib til she regained her sanity). She was on BillO last night and said that the left’s attacks on her will backfire big time. It’s already happening now that the evidence is coming out and doesn’t AT ALL support what they say. She is looking like the reasonable one by keeping quiet since the facts aren’t in. The left is realizing they stepped in it BIG time and are now trying to backtrack.

totally agree. i’ve already seen them backtracking. hateful, just plain hateful. Olby, Schultz and Matthews actually ALL had teh nerve to attack Palin over this and that *words matter* – those three who viscously attack Bachmann, Palin and conservatives relentlessly. Ed actually said last night that words matter, and when you have people calling President Obama names like fascist, hitler, war criminal, etc. it creates an atmosphere of hate or violence or whatever. I was like, ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME??!! LOOK in the mirror MSNBC!!

the real john t said:
How come Palin jerked her “image” off her site right after the shooting?

I don’t know if that is true or not, but if she did it was probably out of respect considering the tragedy that occurred; I’m sure that graphic was saved by thousands the moment it was first posted. I don’t agree with a lot of Palin’s politics (as I assume you don’t either), but, at the end of the day, we’re all mature respectful human beings (Rush & Kos aside).

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
RunSarahRun, I’ve heard several libs on TV the last couple days say the crosshairs argument is ridiculous because it’s just a part of political life. BOTH parties talk in those terms. There is a DNC map just like Sarah’s. Nice try though!!

Please link to the site that has actual gun-sites from the DNC… not a target or a bullseye… and actual simulated gun-site? An for the record, if a Dem used an actual gun-site and that person got shot… they’d be called on the carpet too. You see, the actual shooting matters here. If Palin hadn’t put Giffords district in the “cross-hairs”, I doubt she’d be front and center right now.

w_t_f said:
drama queen #2 is back.

NO ONE said she was responsible!

MarKOS did, and then he plugged his book.

Sara, they are used to the days where we would take what they say as Gospel and just never fight back. I liked Bush but that drove me crazy about him. No matter what vile things the left said about him, he just took it.

Yes Sarah is driving hate, especially when she used these targets on her website http://dronetek.net/dronetek/why-media-ignoring-democrat-ads-use-cross-hairs . What? … That was the DNC? Nevermind.

RunSarahRun said:
Please link to the site that has actual gun-sites from the DNC… not a target or a bullseye… and actual simulated gun-site? An for the record, if a Dem used an actual gun-site and that person got shot… they’d be called on the carpet too. You see, the actual shooting matters here. If Palin hadn’t put Giffords district in the “cross-hairs”, I doubt she’d be front and center right now.

You are tying in two separate arguments. One is substantive and one is causative. The substantive one is easy to prove. Did Palin have an irresponsible gun sight ad? Yes.

However, when you jump to the causative argument, aka, Did Palin’s crosshair map influence the shooting that occurred Saturday?. If you are to make that connection, you have to have some type of proof to make the link between the two events. As of now, none has surfaced. So to say that she is guilty of something that as of yet hasn’t been proven is ridiculous.

Yes Sarah is driving hate, especially when she used these sent all those hate filled tweets we captured here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxgJKNpjSNI What? … Those were loving libs wanting death or injury for Palin? Nevermind. But you need to check it out before it is removed by youtube so they can protect the guilty.

Kird said:
don’t know if that is true or not, but if she did it was probably out of respect considering the tragedy that occurred; I’m sure

Out of the fact she shit her pants!

the real john t said:
How about Sean Hannity callin the shooter a “pot smoking liberal”. That’s probably just fine with you isn’t it?

You need to have your ears checked. It was one of the shooters classmates that called him a “pot smoking liberal”. Nice try though. It just proves once again that you can never be trusted to tell the truth.

Greg Palmer said:
Yes Sarah is driving hate, especially when she used these sent all those hate filled tweets we captured herehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxgJKNpjSNI What? … Those were loving libs wanting death or injury for Palin? Nevermind. But you need to check it out before it is removed by youtube so they can protect the guilty.

I assume you know what a gun-site is? What’s on your link is not what you see when you look through a scope…. nice try though!!!

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Sara, they are used to the days where we would take what they say as Gospel and just never fight back. I liked Bush but that drove me crazy about him. No matter what vile things the left said about him, he just took it.

Heres a box of kleenex, you two can share.

I guess TOMMY wasn’t serious about slumming it up in the comment section, pity. I was looking forward to the mediaite white house correspondent’s interaction with more than a few of this site’s most infamous commentators.

Greg Palmer said:
Yes Sarah is driving hate, especially when she used these targets on her website http://dronetek.net/dronetek/why-media-ignoring-democrat-ads-use-cross-hairs . What? … That was the DNC? Nevermind.

Sorry wrong target link…. or as “gun owner” Greg says… gun-sites…. Those ain’t gun-sites.

Yes Sarah is driving hate, especially when she told the Republicans and the TeaParty to “Punish our Enemies”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnnwJ1rgCnM
What? That was Obama? Nevermind.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Tommy, just look at your own site. It’s posted several stories of libs outright accusing the right of murder. Do we really need us to post links to your own site?

Including in this story. I fail to see how that is contradictory to what I’ve written.

the real john t said:
And you’re a dmaned liar.

Have you even been following the story? It was his fellow students and there is NO doubt about that. You have made a fool out of yourself.

As responsible media figures point out time and again, there is absolutely no evidence of a causal link, nor is anyone in the mainstream media suggesting one

No, they just keep bringing it up in the same breath. They just keep making the link while claiming they’re not. Don’t think of an elephant.

Because they’re “responsible.”

Palin isn’t retreating or reloading.

She’s just re-tarded.

Tommy, my comment was a reaction to you telling lonestarr to provide evidence the media coverage has been reprehensible.

w_t_f said:
drama queen #2 is back.
NO ONE said she was responsible!

You don’t read much, do you?

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/spreading-hate.html

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ blood is on Sarah Palin’s hands after putting cross hair over district

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/09/2011-01-09_palin_put_a_target_on_her_she_should_have_known_the_dangers.html#ixzz1Ah9avpbI

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/alex-fitzsimmons/2011/01/11/msnbcs-mitchell-blames-palin-again-tucson-shooting

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/11/halperin-hey-why-did-conservatives-defend-themselves-from-being-smeared/

http://newsbusters.org/archive/2009%3Fpage%3D3/9/node/blog/26?page=2&from=15

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/barbara-walters-defends-sarah-palin-blaming-her-giffords-shooting-ver

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/barbara-walters-defends-sarah-palin-blaming-her-giffords-shooting-ver

Tommy…. go f**kyourself, you Soros funded resident Sarah Palin hater.

What is she doing? She’s waiting for the left to keep digging themselves a grave on this.
See: http://bigjournalism.com/jjmnolte/2011/01/11/new-media-puts-a-stop-to-the-three-days-of-the-krugman/

Jelperman, we can always count on you libs to bring the thoughtful arguments. Stay classy!

Tim Pawlenty certainly did Sarah Palin no favors with his comment. I think it is safe to say she won’t be giving him an endorsement (not that she ever was).

P.S.
Tommy, I hope somebody from Mediaite will be covering the patriots at the Anti-Mosque Rally tomorrow.

P.P.S.
Sarah In Italy, If you think you having a little conniption fit at Mediaite is going to make a hill of beans in terms of how people view Sarah Palin, you are off your rocker. Now go stand in the corner.

the real john t said:
How about Sean Hannity callin the shooter a “pot smoking liberal”. That’s probably just fine with you isn’t it?

No, Hannity was quoting a former friend of the of the alleged shooter. Perhaps you know the alleged shooter better?

Alz, it’s sad to see how very busy Tommy’s BFF Andrew has been the last few days. It’s shameful really.

Greg, that did NOT happen!! Johns says it didn’t and the media didn’t report it so it didn’t happen!! See no evil, here no evil!

gordonbloyershow said:
Have you even been following the story? It was his fellow students and there is NO doubt about that. You have made a fool out of yourself.

i have from from CNN MSNBC and mostly FOX as well as reading from to many places to name and I did not see one student being quoted as saying he was a pot smoking liberal. So link it up please.

RunSarahRun said:
Please link to the site that has actual gun-sites from the DNC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqB4tyvxWKA&feature=player_embedded

what do you think a bullseye is? It is a target.

Tommy Christopher said:
If you have anything to offer besides name-calling and made-up quotes, I’m listening. An actual argument, facts/links to support it?

I just went to yahoo.com to check my e-mail. What was the headline staring me in the face? “Tragedy puts focus on Palin”.

I flipped back and forth between CNN & MSNBC a lot today. If I were playing a drinking game where I had to take a sip of watered down beer after every Palin reference, I’d have been hammered in record time. Is Paul Krugman part of the MSM? Contessa Brewer says “people are blaming vitriolic right-wing talkers & the tea party”. Other than left-wing journalists and bomb-throwers, who exactly are these people? Andrea Mitchell says “there’s no direct evidence” regarding Palin, then goes on to talk about Palin “targeting” candidates and asks one of them how it felt, how she dealt with it, if she was threatened, blah, blah, blah. Even though there’s absolutely zero evidence that any “political vitriol” caused this nut to do what he did, Tom Brokaw praised the wingnut sheriff of Pima county for speaking out. You know, the same sheriff who said that Palin was directly responsible. There are countless more examples but I think you get the point. The MSM has been (typically) biased & irresponsible.

Greg Palmer said:
No, Hannity was quoting a former friend of the of the alleged shooter. Perhaps you know the alleged shooter better?

Oh well Hannity quoting one. *rolls eyes*

DorkyMcForky said:
I do. First off, I can’t stand the woman personally. Let me get that out of the way. But to say that “no one serious is blaming her” is beyond ridiculous.

Lets take a look at Olbermann. I watched almost all of his special edition of Countdown. Time and time again he would lead off with a statement such as “Well, we don’t have any facts, but…” and then he would go into a 10 minute diatribe about Palin. Probably 80%, if not more, of that show was dedicated to Palin and her map. He kept mentioning what happened in Arizona and then he would start talking about Palin and her map and her rhetoric. And then he would talk about Palin and her map and her rhetoric and then immediately reference the shooting that occured. ANY person with an IQ about 25 would know exactly what he was trying to do. Without saying the words “Palin is more than partially responsible for these attacks” he was saying “Palin is more than partially responsible for these attacks”. When you say that you have no facts to back up what you are saying but you then go on for almost 2 hours talking about the same exact person, the same exact map and then immediately referencing the shooting, you are saying something without saying the words.

And lets not get started on the Sheriff and Paul Krugman…

Again, I don’t understand how this relates to what I wrote. Even Olbermann says over and over again that there’s no causal link, but as I explained in this post, she is linked by the confluence of events, so it is going to get talked about. If you have a quote where Olbermann says the shooting was her fault, that’s relevant. What you’re describing, I covered in paragraphs 1, 4, 5, and 6.

the real john t said:
How come Palin jerked her “image” off her site right after the shooting?

she didn’t. don’t read mediaite much, do you?

“however, the normally loquacious media supernova has been uncharacteristically silent on this issue”

And couldn’t I get used to that!!!!!

the real john t said:
How come Palin jerked her “image” off her site right after the shooting?

Same reason that The Daily Kos scrubbed their ‘target Giffords” thread.

sarainitaly said:
what do you think a bullseye is? It is a target.

This looks NOTHING like Palins map, hers has Crosshairs,gunsights on it.When you have someone in your crosshairs you are ready to shoot to kill.And palin being the big hunter she is knew this from the getgo. And the woman she had the crosshairs on got Shot in the head.So of course Palin is going to be talked about.

RunSarahRun said:
I assume you know what a gun-site is? What’s on your link is not what you see when you look through a scope…. nice try though!!!

It is a target twit. The ‘target’ used on Palins site WAS a surveyors symbol. The actual sources have been posted all over these sites.

If you doubt me. I might be able to arrange for you to stand infront of one of those “not a targets”.

Palin did not scrub it from her FB sight. Kos did. It was gone. Now, they have a revised post up, without the picture.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/sarahpac-website-hit-list-image-that-included-target-on-giffords-district-kos-post-remains/

Jelperman said:
Palin isn’t retreating or reloading. She’s just re-tarded.

and still being rescussetated after she connected the dots, um, crosshairs back to her.

Ha-ha, go TOMMY go!

Some might see her actions or the lack thereof as limp and impotent? The real admission that she’d stepped in it was in removing the crosshairs from her facebook page. Way to slink off into that whole you’ve crawled into Sarah. Now, just stay down! The lack of screeching has been refreshing.

sarainitaly said:
what do you think a bullseye is? It is a target.

Not the same thing, no matter how hard you wish it was.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/01/10/bullseyes_vs_crosshairs.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PoliticalWire+%28Political+Wire%29

ROCKSTEADY said:
This looks NOTHING like Palins map, hers has Crosshairs,gunsights on it.When you have someone in your crosshairs you are ready to shoot to kill.And palin being the big hunter she is knew this from the getgo. And the woman she had the crosshairs on got Shot in the head.So of course Palin is going to be talked about.

the video i linked to is an ad BY a democrat with his opponent IN A GUN SIGHT. It looks nothing like Palin’s map because her map is not using real gun sights. The Dem ad is.

Tommy Christopher said:
Including in this story. I fail to see how that is contradictory to what I’ve written.

Not a good thing to admit.

RunSarahRun said:
Sorry wrong target link…. or as “gun owner” Greg says… gun-sites…. Those ain’t gun-sites.

Target Target Target…

Tommy Christopher said:
Even Olbermann says over and over again that there’s no causal link

[WINK]

That fact that we are having a debate of crosshairs and bullseyes is ridiculous! There is NO evidence he was affected by other, (to use Tommy’s words) no matter HOW MUCH the left wishes there was.

Tommy Christopher said:
Not the same thing, no matter how hard you wish it was.

Honestly, should we boycott TARGET now?

sarainitaly said:
You don’t read much, do you?

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/spreading-hate.html

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ blood is on Sarah Palin’s hands after putting cross hair over district

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/09/2011-01-09_palin_put_a_target_on_her_she_should_have_known_the_dangers.html#ixzz1Ah9avpbI

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/alex-fitzsimmons/2011/01/11/msnbcs-mitchell-blames-palin-again-tucson-shooting

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/11/halperin-hey-why-did-conservatives-defend-themselves-from-being-smeared/

http://newsbusters.org/archive/2009%3Fpage%3D3/9/node/blog/26?page=2&from=15

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/barbara-walters-defends-sarah-palin-blaming-her-giffords-shooting-ver

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/barbara-walters-defends-sarah-palin-blaming-her-giffords-shooting-ver

Come on, you’re wasting my time. The first one is an opinion piece, and the second one is a Newsbusters piece that accuses Mitchell of something she didn’t say. Quote: “Do you think it’s unfair to blame Sarah Palin in any way? Not for this case, but to be focusing so much on her. Critics have said that really she’s not part of this and why bring her into it?”

I’m not going to spend my night reading the rest of them, unless you want to add the relevant quotes.

Tommy Christopher said:
Again, I don’t understand how this relates to what I wrote. Even Olbermann says over and over again that there’s no causal link, but as I explained in this post, she is linked by the confluence of events, so it is going to get talked about. If you have a quote where Olbermann says the shooting was her fault, that’s relevant. What you’re describing, I covered in paragraphs 1, 4, 5, and 6.

Are you kidding me? Watch how I link Bill Maher to the shooter through a confluence of events.

Lougher was an atheist. Lougher was known to smoke pot on a regular basis. Lougher like burning the American Flag. Lougher read The Communist Manifesto. Lougher shot a Conservative Blue Dog Democrat. The Daily Kos had Gifford on their Target List for being too conservative. Bill Maher is an atheist and a proponent of marijuana, and his political views match that of the Daily Kos. Therefore, through a confluence of events, Lougher was influenced by Bill Maher and the Daily Kos.

How do you not see that this is exactly the same as what is happening to Palin? This relates directly to what you wrote because you are wondering why Palin hasn’t said anything yet. Why should she have been the only one linked to him through a confluence of events when the same could be said about Bill Maher? Or Markos Moulistas? Seeing that there is no proof to prove any political motivation you can cheery pick facts that have been released, like I just did to link Loughner to BIll Maher, to create any confluence of events that suit your political purpose.

” Even Olbermann says over and over again that there’s no causal link”

And Rush Limbaugh says over and over again that he isn’t racist. People say sh!t all the time, it doesn’t change the way they think.

TARGET as in the retial chain . . .

Tommy Christopher said:
Not the same thing, no matter how hard you wish it was.

Sorry, Tommy, I call total BS. You use sights to see your target. Using one image over the other is irrelevant. Making a political ad with your opponent in the gun sights is violent imagery. A map with the targets sighted, or as bullseyes are the same thing – the message is to convey the *target*.

It is the same thing, no matter how you try to spin it.

Tommy Christopher said:
Again, I don’t understand how this relates to what I wrote. Even Olbermann says over and over again that there’s no causal link, but as I explained in this post, she is linked by the confluence of events, so it is going to get talked about. If you have a quote where Olbermann says the shooting was her fault, that’s relevant. What you’re describing, I covered in paragraphs 1, 4, 5, and 6.

Tommy, you’re playing your silly little word games again. You’re letting the MSM off the hook by saying that no one is “directly” linking Palin. Well, the sheriff did…on Hardball…and Mathews didn’t challenge him. All day long all you see on TV is lefty journalists attacking Palin. You’re saying that they’re not directly linking her. What they are doing is implying that she is partly responsible for the acts of some nut who may or may not have ever even heard of her. That’s dangerous. Also, what they are doing more closely represents directly linking her than anything she ever said represents what this nut did. You are defending the indefensible and it’s a losing battle. To quote you, for everyone but existing MSM loyalists, this argument is over.

Tommy, even if Olbermann and co. don’t say that she is directly responsible, are you telling me, with a straight face that they aren’t doing their level best to imply it? When Andrea Mitchell talks about hateful rhetoric causing the tragedy and plays Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc. but NO Olbermann, Tingles Schulttz, etc, is she not saying (without saying) that Palin is responsible? Just dig deep for some intellectual honesty and answer the question?

lonestar77 said:
I just went to yahoo.com to check my e-mail. What was the headline staring me in the face? “Tragedy puts focus on Palin”.

I flipped back and forth between CNN & MSNBC a lot today. If I were playing a drinking game where I had to take a sip of watered down beer after every Palin reference, I’d have been hammered in record time. Is Paul Krugman part of the MSM? Contessa Brewer says “people are blaming vitriolic right-wing talkers & the tea party”. Other than left-wing journalists and bomb-throwers, who exactly are these people? Andrea Mitchell says “there’s no direct evidence” regarding Palin, then goes on to talk about Palin “targeting” candidates and asks one of them how it felt, how she dealt with it, if she was threatened, blah, blah, blah. Even though there’s absolutely zero evidence that any “political vitriol” caused this nut to do what he did, Tom Brokaw praised the wingnut sheriff of Pima county for speaking out. You know, the same sheriff who said that Palin was directly responsible. There are countless more examples but I think you get the point. The MSM has been (typically) biased & irresponsible.

Everything you’re saying here is a paraphrase of the opening paragraphs of my article, so I don’t see what your problem is. If you don’t think the media should be talking about this at all, explain why. Explain how any news editor is supposed to ignore the confluence of Giffords’ shooting, Palin’s map, and Giffords’ interview denouncing it.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Tommy, even if Olbermann and co. don’t say that she is directly responsible, are you telling me, with a straight face that they aren’t doing their level best to imply it?

He actually is.

sarainitaly said:
Ed actually said last night that words matter,

What time does Ed Shultz’s come on in Italy? You said he said that last night, does it show the same time in Italy that it does here? And he is not the only one that has said it. I’ve heard Republicans and Democrats both say it. So why don’t you just sit over there where you pay no US taxes and get free health care and stop bitching about the United States.

I know Jim, but I’m trying to make it easier for Tommy to admit it. He’s having a hard time.

Tommy Christopher said:
If you don’t think the media should be talking about this at all, explain why. Explain how any news editor is supposed to ignore the confluence of Giffords’ shooting, Palin’s map, and Giffords’ interview denouncing it.

There’s absolutely no evidence that Tommy Christopher molests children. I’m going to go around telling everybody that for a week straight. It’s the responsible thing to do.

How about this Tommy. Just a simple yes or no. Do you think the media has acted responsibly in the coverage of this tragedy? Don’t play word games, just answer yes or no.

Tommy, wasn’t Seeing 2012 From My Window/Michelle form Utah banned from here?

Tommy Christopher said:
Everything you’re saying here is a paraphrase of the opening paragraphs of my article, so I don’t see what your problem is. If you don’t think the media should be talking about this at all, explain why. Explain how any news editor is supposed to ignore the confluence of Giffords’ shooting, Palin’s map, and Giffords’ interview denouncing it.

They shouldn’t ignore it, they should cover it AFTER it comes to light that the suspect was influenced by the map, not before the facts are known and people are throwing around their opinions without any substantive facts. You are a journalist, how is this hard to understand? This is like the Duke rape case. Everyone just knew that they were guilty…until it came out after wards that they werent, but by then, the damage to the players reputation was already done.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Do you think the media has acted responsibly in the coverage of this tragedy?

Are you including Fox in that?

Poor john, hates it that I have to constantly point out his lies (3 on Sunday) and wants me banned! Grow a pair John.

Jim Treacher said:
There’s absolutely no evidence that Tommy Christopher molests children. I’m going to go around telling everybody that for a week straight. It’s the responsible thing to do.

Regardless of what you were responding to, that’s irrepressible.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Grow a pair John.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA !

Kird, You’re right it’s sick but that is the game being played. It’s unfortunate, but true. If you think pointing it out is reprehensible, then so be it I guess.

Jim Treacher said:
There’s absolutely no evidence that Tommy Christopher molests children. I’m going to go around telling everybody that for a week straight. It’s the responsible thing to do.

You seem to blaming TC for the tactic used by Christine O’Donnel again Mike Castle, huh JimBo?

sarainitaly said:
Sorry, Tommy, I call total BS. You use sights to see your target. Using one image over the other is irrelevant. Making a political ad with your opponent in the gun sights is violent imagery. A map with the targets sighted, or as bullseyes are the same thing – the message is to convey the *target*.

It is the same thing, no matter how you try to spin it.

They are not the same thing. A bullseye is, itself, a target, a nonliving thing to aim at. Crosshairs are what you USE to AIM, and as I’ve said before, are an iconic symbol of assassination.

As for the few seconds of a Democrat no one ever heard of, he also should not have used it, and if I had ever heard of the guy, would have denounced it. And if the guy he targeted in that ad got shot, you’re damn right the media would have covered it, despite the Democrat being a nobody. Do you really think otherwise?

Tommy Christopher said:
They are not the same thing. A bullseye is, itself, a target, a nonliving thing to aim at. Crosshairs are what you USE to AIM, and as I’ve said before, are an iconic symbol of assassination.

As for the few seconds of a Democrat no one ever heard of, he also should not have used it, and if I had ever heard of the guy, would have denounced it. And if the guy he targeted in that ad got shot, you’re damn right the media would have covered it, despite the Democrat being a nobody. Do you really think otherwise?

The difference is, if that did happen, liberals and Democrats would CONDEMN the guy, not cower silently, or try to defend him.

Tommy Christopher said:
Come on, you’re wasting my time. The first one is an opinion piece, and the second one is a Newsbusters piece that accuses Mitchell of something she didn’t say. Quote: “Do you think it’s unfair to blame Sarah Palin in any way? Not for this case, but to be focusing so much on her. Critics have said that really she’s not part of this and why bring her into it?”
I’m not going to spend my night reading the rest of them, unless you want to add the relevant quotes.

well, I wasn’t addressing my comment to you, first of all, so I had no intention of wasting any of your time. I was addressing someone who said no one was blaming Palin. I suggest you take a look at my blog post, and check out the numerous tweets by people, blaming and accusing Palin. I also fail to see how an opinion piece falls short in proof that people were blaming Palin?

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/spreading-hate.html

I do, however, suggest that you spend your time looking at the links. apparently you do indeed need to spend some time informing yourself of what was actually being said…. you can start with Krugman and Markos.

http://katypundit.com/news/newsbusters-howard-kurtz-denounces-media-for-blaming-giffords-shooting-on-palin/

Kird said:
Regardless of what you were responding to, that’s irrepressible.

Get thee to a dictionary.

Fox News: Enlisting Patriots for Pam Geller's Rally Jan 12th said:
You seem to blaming TC for the tactic used by Christine O’Donnel again Mike Castle, huh JimBo?

Is my statement untrue? If you have evidence, let’s see it. Until then, there’s no proof that Tommy Christopher molests children.

the real john t said:
What time does Ed Shultz’s come on in Italy?

i am in seattle visiting my mother.

Tommy , you have a clever way of writing your articles , where you write in semantics and undertones , which makes it easier to play defense.

Ah, I’m jealous Sara! Say hi to my parents in Federal Way!

sarainitaly said:
totally agree. i’ve already seen them backtracking. hateful, just plain hateful. Olby, Schultz and Matthews actually ALL had teh nerve to attack Palin over this and that *words matter* – those three who viscously attack Bachmann, Palin and conservatives relentlessly. Ed actually said last night that words matter, and when you have people calling President Obama names like fascist, hitler, war criminal, etc. it creates an atmosphere of hate or violence or whatever. I was like, ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME??!! LOOK in the mirror MSNBC!!

Sara (who loves America so much she lives in a foreign country where they have strict gun laws) spends all the time on her blog defending Sarah Palin but hardly a mention of Gabrielle Giffords or the other victims of Saturday’s shooting then has the nerve to accuse others of politicizing the tragedy. ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME??!! Sara (who loves America so much she lives in a foreign country where they have strict gun laws) is the one who needs to be looking in the mirror!

Tommy Christopher said:
Not the same thing, no matter how hard you wish it was.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/01/10/bullseyes_vs_crosshairs.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PoliticalWire+%28Political+Wire%29

Bahaha. Your quote: “A bullseye is commonly associated with target practice, and as such, the bullseye itself is the inert, nonliving target. Crosshairs, on the other hand, represent the mechanism by which a target is acquired and killed.” So, a deranged lunatic is going to be incited by crosshairs but not by a bullseye because the bullseye is an “inert, nonliving target”. That may be in the top 3 of the most ridiculous arguments I’ve ever heard. Surely, you can see the absurdity and the streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch it takes to draw that conslusion. Your conclusion is based on who used the imagery not what the imagery is.

Tommy Christopher said:
Everything you’re saying here is a paraphrase of the opening paragraphs of my article, so I don’t see what your problem is. If you don’t think the media should be talking about this at all, explain why. Explain how any news editor is supposed to ignore the confluence of Giffords’ shooting, Palin’s map, and Giffords’ interview denouncing it.

Because the “confluence” has nothing to do with what happened. The media is making something out of nothing based on their hate for Palin. The media is basically saying that since all humans are mammals, all mammals are humans. Well, that’s incorrect. They are beating Palin to death because they absolutely hate her because she doesn’t share their ideology. I think every rational person can see that.

It’s kinda like when the Fort Hood shootings happened and there was actual evidence that Hasaan had terrorist ties and these same media people warned all of us to not rush to judgement…except it’s not like that at all because they hate Sarah Palin more than they hate any actual perpetrator of violence.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Ah, I’m jealous Sara! Say hi to my parents in Federal Way!

it is SNOWING! :O)

Hi Treacher! hope your knee is doing ok!

sarainitaly said:
sarainitaly says:
January 11, 2011 at 11:45 pm

Good Grief! What did you do get tired. Couldn go to Free Republic or Fox Nation to link to. You linked to most other radical RW nutcase sites.

lonestar77 said:
Tommy, you’re playing your silly little word games again.

It’s not a “word game,” it’s called “supporting an argument with facts.” I wish you’d try it. Yes, people are linking Palin to this shooting BECAUSE SHE’S LINKED TO IT by the confluence of her March posting of an electoral map that featured crosshairs over shooting victim Gabrielle Giffords‘ Congressional district, Giffords’ own denunciation of the image at the time, and Giffords’ current struggle to survive.

But they’re also going to great pains to point out that Palin didn’t cause this tragedy. Now, if you have facts to refute that, links or quotes, let’s discuss, but just saying “I know what they really mean” is no more adequate when you do it than when Kos does.

Murf, you always put things in just the right words. Exactly! Tommy talks about people cower and defending, but that is what he’s doing to with the media. He’ll defend them to his dying breath. I wish he’d just come out and say the media has done a good job with their reporting instead of playing these word games. But I’ve learned that liberals go out of their way to NOT tell you what they think.

Jim Treacher said:
Is my statement untrue? If you have evidence, let’s see it. Until then, there’s no proof that Tommy Christopher molests children.

Hey Jimbo, I suppose you found Sarah Palin’s characterization of Obama as “palling around with terrorists” and accurate depiction of Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers too.

Tommy Christopher said:
The difference is, if that did happen, liberals and Democrats would CONDEMN the guy, not cower silently, or try to defend him.

Oh, thanks to Sarah in Italy, here is a quote of Keith Olbermann blaming Sarah Palin in the most obvious terms without saying “I , Keith Olbermann, hereby hold Sarah Palin accountable for the shooting of congresswoman Giffords”.

““If Sarah Palin, whose website put and today scrubbed bullseye targets on 20 representatives including Gabby Giffords, does not repudiate her own part in amplifying violence and violent imagery in politics, she must be dismissed from politics.””

I should have known this before as I actually watched that Special Comment live. Again, this was a Special Comment directly about the shooting, not just violent imagery in general in politics, which as Kurtz points out, happens all the time.

But they’re also going to great pains to point out that Palin didn’t cause this tragedy

Bullcrap tommy.

Liberals blame Sarah Palin in wake of Tucson shooting

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47252.html#ixzz1AnPWLFmL

Fox News: Enlisting Patriots for Pam Geller's Rally Jan 12th said:
Hey Jimbo, I suppose you found Sarah Palin’s characterization of Obama as “palling around with terrorists” and accurate depiction of Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers too.

I take it you don’t have proof that Tommy Christopher molests children.

JamesA1102 said:
Sara (who loves America so much she lives in a foreign country where they have strict gun laws) is the one who needs to be looking in the mirror!

Does it need to be a certified ,licensed , collectable “Planet of the Apes ” , or will any mirror suffice . Specificity is important .

Fox News: Enlisting Patriots for Pam Geller's Rally Jan 12th said:
I suppose you found Sarah Palin’s characterization of Obama as “palling around with terrorists” and accurate depiction of Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers too.

You’re right , she should have said .. ” Palling around in terrorist’s living rooms ” … Her bad

The Atlantic’s Andrew Sullivan immediately tied in former Republican Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin to the Arizona shooter’s motive. In a Saturday 2:46 PM post, he writes:

When a congresswoman is shot in the head in the very act of democracy, we should all pause. This is fundamentally not a partisan issue and should not be. Acts of violence against political figures destroy democracy itself, for both parties. We don’t know who tried to kill congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (she appears to be still alive) and we should be very cautious in drawing any conclusions yet about why. But we can know that, whoever tried to kill her and for whatever reason, political rhetoric involving words like “target” and “gun-sights” is inherently irresponsible.

ps, don’t bother pointing out he blamed her without saying he was blaming her. I’m not playing those games.

Tommy Christopher said:
, but just saying “I know what they really mean” is no more adequate when you do it than when Kos does.

Now THAT is something I have to take serious issue with.

When the Teabaggers yell “DOWN WITH OBAMACARE”, liberals say I know what they really mean and that is I HATE BLACK PEOPLE.

When the Teabaggers yell “SECURE THE BORDER” liberals say I know what they really mean and that is I HATE MEXICANS.

When the Teabaggers yell “NO GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OF HEALTHCARE” liberals say I know what they really mean and that is I HATE BLACK WELFARE RECIPIENTS.

Cut the crap sir.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Tommy, even if Olbermann and co. don’t say that she is directly responsible, are you telling me, with a straight face that they aren’t doing their level best to imply it? When Andrea Mitchell talks about hateful rhetoric causing the tragedy and plays Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc. but NO Olbermann, Tingles Schulttz, etc, is she not saying (without saying) that Palin is responsible? Just dig deep for some intellectual honesty and answer the question?

As I said in my article, of course Palin’s opponents are pressing the point (just as Palin would if this had happened to Barack Obama), but that doesn’t mitigate the actual point. If nobody even knew who Palin was, and this same confluence of events occurred, this would still be a huge story. If this happened in some obscure mayoral race, it would still be a big story.

And the point they’re pressing isn’t that Palin is responsible for the tragedy, but that the tragedy illustrates the irresponsibility of the graphic, which it does.

http://surveying.wb.psu.edu/sur162/stadia/radial.htm

http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/SYMBOLS.gif

http://egsc.usgs.gov/isb/pubs/booklets/symbols/topomapsymbols.pdf (page 2 control and monuments)

the real john t said:
Good Grief! What did you do get tired. Couldn go to Free Republic or Fox Nation to link to. You linked to most other radical RW nutcase sites.

typical standard reply when lefties can’t deal with the truth…

i selected those links because they deal with numerous examples per link. i know the truth hurts, and instead of acknowledging the truth, you just attack the links, but whatever…. i wouldn’t expect you to be honest.

Tommy Christopher said:
Everything you’re saying here is a paraphrase of the opening paragraphs of my article, so I don’t see what your problem is. If you don’t think the media should be talking about this at all, explain why. Explain how any news editor is supposed to ignore the confluence of Giffords’ shooting, Palin’s map, and Giffords’ interview denouncing it.

They may be confluent but so far as we know it neither the map nor Gifford’s denouncing have any direct link as a cause. It just continues to fan the flames and puts the focus on the wrong thing. I didn’t realize that this is the job of an editor but then again I am not in the news business.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Kird, You’re right it’s sick but that is the game being played. It’s unfortunate, but true. If you think pointing it out is reprehensible, then so be it I guess.

I’ve often considered myself an outsider here, but, nonetheless, the bloggars and the commentators here provide fodder for the academic community’s analysis and commentary. We love that we get {self censored}.

murf said:
You’re right , she should have said .. ” Palling around in terrorist’s living rooms ” … Her bad

Exactly why I don’t give a damn whether Sarah Palin got a bum wrap with this tragedy.

How can anyone who pays even the slightest attention say that no one is blaming Palin on this? Palin is getting more media coverage from this shooting that the killer himself — even though the perpetrator had ZERO CONNECTION to Palin or the tea parties. Hey, why let facts get in the way of your smears? You can try saying that the “confluence of events” links Palin to the shootings, but that is a pathetic game of propagandizing that hardly covers up this obvious disinformation and smear campaign. Anyone who doubts liberal media bias just needs to look at the coverage of this tragic shooting over the last 72 hours, where journalism disappeared and partisan spin took over the entire media (including Mediaite).

Tommy Christopher said:
It’s not a “word game,” it’s called “supporting an argument with facts.” I wish you’d try it. Yes, people are linking Palin to this shooting BECAUSE SHE’S LINKED TO IT by the confluence of her March posting of an electoral map that featured crosshairs over shooting victim Gabrielle Giffords‘ Congressional district, Giffords’ own denunciation of the image at the time, and Giffords’ current struggle to survive. But they’re also going to great pains to point out that Palin didn’t cause this tragedy. Now, if you have facts to refute that, links or quotes, let’s discuss, but just saying “I know what they really mean” is no more adequate when you do it than when Kos does.

Tommy, let me tell you the mistake that you’re making here. You’re trying to have a rational discussion with people who are not rational. No amount of facts or logic that you can show them will change their ideologically locked minds. It’s like trying to teach a dog to type. You’ll never get back anything intelligent and it just pisses off the dog.

Tommy Christopher said:
As I said in my article, of course Palin’s opponents are pressing the point (just as Palin would if this had happened to Barack Obama), but that doesn’t mitigate the actual point. If nobody even knew who Palin was, and this same confluence of events occurred, this would still be a huge story. If this happened in some obscure mayoral race, it would still be a big story.

And the point they’re pressing isn’t that Palin is responsible for the tragedy, but that the tragedy illustrates the irresponsibility of the graphic, which it does.

Much in the same way that molesting children is an awful thing to do, which is why it’s important for people to know that, so far, there’s no proof you’ve ever done it.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
How about this Tommy. Just a simple yes or no. Do you think the media has acted responsibly in the coverage of this tragedy? Don’t play word games, just answer yes or no.

No.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
But they’re also going to great pains to point out that Palin didn’t cause this tragedy

Bullcrap tommy.

Liberals blame Sarah Palin in wake of Tucson shooting

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47252.html#ixzz1AnPWLFmL

And I blame John Lennon for the death of Sharon Tate.

Jim Treacher said:
Much in the same way that molesting children is an awful thing to do, which is why it’s important for people to know that, so far, there’s no proof you’ve ever done it.

I am glad to know that so far there is no proof that Tommy is doing such a thing today.

Gabrielle Giffords Shooting And Sarah Palin’s Conscience

But should we pretend that the violent rhetoric of Palin and her followers is “just an overheated metaphor,” asks Huffington Post writer Marty Kaplan. How many times have we heard Jon Stewart and others speak out about how the GOP-Tea Party machine, with its angry bombast, pushes people? This “lock-and-load” mentality is today’s U.S. politics–reptilian, raging, uncivil, unyielding and here, possibly murderous.

Fox News: Enlisting Patriots for Pam Geller's Rally Jan 12th said:
Exactly why I don’t give a damn whether Sarah Palin got a bum wrap with this tragedy.

That was never a doubt in anyone here’s mind.

felixw said:
How can anyone who pays even the slightest attention say that no one is blaming Palin on this?

remarkable, isn’t it?

Thank you for your honestly Tommy. For your part, you didn’t play the game that alot of the media played, I just wish you wouldn’t bend over backwards to try to make us believe they aren’t doing what we all know they are doing.

Kird said:
provide fodder for the academic community’s analysis and commentary.

If only you knew……..

George C said:
Does it need to be a certified ,licensed , collectable “Planet of the Apes ” , or will any mirror suffice . Specificity is important .

Wow you went with the racist reference really quick there.

I would think that Gordon Bloyer would agree with me here, Ronald Reagan would have handled this differently that Gov. Sarah Palin has.

Tommy Christopher said:
talentless shitheel

And he works for a talentless shitheel. They keep good company.

lonestar77 said:
Tommy Christopher said:
Not the same thing, no matter how hard you wish it was.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/01/10/bullseyes_vs_crosshairs.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PoliticalWire+%28Political+Wire%29
Bahaha. Your quote: “A bullseye is commonly associated with target practice, and as such, the bullseye itself is the inert, nonliving target. Crosshairs, on the other hand, represent the mechanism by which a target is acquired and killed.” So, a deranged lunatic is going to be incited by crosshairs but not by a bullseye because the bullseye is an “inert, nonliving target”.

Where did I say any of that? Where did I say that anyone incited anything? Seriously, you need to sharpen up your reading skills. If you don’t even know what I said, how can you argue with it?

JamesA1102 said:
Wow you went with the racist reference really quick there.

POTA is racist ? Who knew . I’m shocked , ” Shocked ” , I say.

Tommy Christopher said:
Go fuck yourself, you talentless shitheel. Child rape is not fucking funny.

Ignore him Tommy, lets try to keep this debate civil.

Tommy Christopher said:
Go f*** yourself, you talentless s***heel. Child rape is not f***ing funny.

Which is precisely why I’m protecting you from the charge that you, Tommy Christopher, have ever molested children. There has yet to be presented a single bit of evidence, as of early Wednesday morning. Glad to help.

Fox News: Enlisting Patriots for Pam Geller's Rally Jan 12th said:
And he works for a talentless s***heel. They keep good company.

Temper, temper.

George C said:
POTA is racist ? Who knew . I’m shocked , ” Shocked ” , I say.

Of course it is and you know it is which is why you used the reference.

JamesA1102 said:
Wow you went with the racist reference really quick there

If POTA is racist , then you , Sir are the Grand Sivapithecus . Mazel Tov !

JamesA1102 said:
Of course it is and you know it is which is why you used the reference.

My curiosity now piqued , how is a Planet of the Apes mirror racist ? I’ll wait .

George C said:
If POTA is racist , then you , Sir are the Grand Sivapithecus . Mazel Tov !

I’m not the one who made a racist reference, you did.

JamesA1102 said:
I’m not the one who made a racist reference, you did.

Look up . I’ll wait .

sarainitaly said:
i selected those links because they deal with numerous examples per link. i know the truth hurts,

OH! So your radical RW nutcase sites are all about the “truth” huh? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Wow, I am grateful that the elderly “ladies” that frequent this site are in bed by now and are not subjugated by this nasty rhetoric from their leaders.

Jim Treacher said:
Which is precisely why I’m protecting you from the charge that you, Tommy Christopher, have ever molested children. There has yet to be presented a single bit of evidence, as of early Wednesday morning. Glad to help.

Oh, I get the hacktastic premise that you ripped off from some Glenn Beck trolls (who are also rape-joking pieces of shit), I just don’t happen to think that raping children, or anyone else, is something to joke about. So stay the fuck away from me.

George C said:
Look up . I’ll wait .

Nothing to look up at so you’ll be waiting a long time.

Tommy Christopher said:
It’s not a “word game,” it’s called “supporting an argument with facts.” I wish you’d try it. Yes, people are linking Palin to this shooting BECAUSE SHE’S LINKED TO IT by the confluence of her March posting of an electoral map that featured crosshairs over shooting victim Gabrielle Giffords‘ Congressional district, Giffords’ own denunciation of the image at the time, and Giffords’ current struggle to survive.

But they’re also going to great pains to point out that Palin didn’t cause this tragedy. Now, if you have facts to refute that, links or quotes, let’s discuss, but just saying “I know what they really mean” is no more adequate when you do it than when Kos does.

All you have is words games Tommy. To say she’s linked to it is really nothing more than hyper-partisan lefty fantasy rhetoric. She’s no more linked to it than you are.

To say that they’re “going to great pains…” is beyond ridiculous. The only painful thing for them is that she can’t be tied to it no matter how hard they try. You’re living in a fantasy world if you can’t see what’s going on. Hell, you’re part of it. You’re spreading the meme that although she can’t be directly linked to it, she’s responsible…and that’s irresponsible. You sound foolish & ignorant. Your side is attempting to politicize this tragedy as is evidenced by the work you’ve done. It’s shameful and my guess is that your party will be held responsible for it. Anyway, I’m done with you because I think you’ve dug yourself a deep enough hole. The media has shown themselves to be nothing more than petty political opportunists willing to exploit any and every tragedy if they believe they can score political points with it. Unfortunately for you and your ilk, your strategy has backfired…immensely. It really is shameful and if you or any of your lefty buddies had a conscience, you’d feel terrible about it. I’d bet anything that you couldn’t name any of the victims because you don’t actually care about what happened. All you care about is (lamely) tying Sarah Palin to it.

Speaking of nasty, Nacho, how is your pal Gov. Brewer? Can I assume she is still alive and well?

Tommy Christopher said:
Oh, I get the hacktastic premise that you ripped off from some Glenn Beck trolls (who are also rape-joking pieces of shit), I just don’t happen to think that raping children, or anyone else, is something to joke about. So stay the f*** away from me.

Isn’t it frustrating when somebody makes a weaselly implication about you, while claiming to be saying the opposite?

Jim Treacher said:
Isn’t it frustrating when somebody makes a weaselly implication about you, while claiming to be saying the opposite?

No, asshole, it’s reprehensible when someone makes jokes about rape. I could give two shits what you say about me.

The backlash against this whole line of thought is already occurring. The more blame and innuendo that is placed against Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, and conservatives in general, will have far bigger ramifications for the left than for Sarah herself. With no facts, and very little information in the early hours of this tragedy, the finger pointing began. It is a sad state of affairs that the supposed objective media had to report on Palin, in order to keep up with the pundits and blogs. Chris Matthews wrote on Huff Post that Sarah was “under fire” for invoking violence with her imagery and rhetoric. Was that suppose to be funny, sarcasm? No matter what she does, Sarah will be attacked. If she’s quiet, she’s hiding, a coward. If she comes out now and defends herself, she is using the tragedy for her gain. If she apologizes for using the same imagery that the left has used, it will be ” see, we told you so”. She is doing it exactly right, let all these people cranking up the rhetoric bury themselves.

Sarah

Jim Treacher said:
Isn’t it frustrating when somebody makes a weaselly implication about you, while claiming to be saying the opposite?

Yeah, Sarah Palin is definitely a weasel. And in politics, you sometimes reap what you sew, don’t you JimBo?

Tommy Christopher said:
No, asshole, it’s reprehensible when someone makes jokes about rape.

It’s not a joke. There really isn’t any evidence that you, Tommy Christopher, have ever molested children. That’s totally serious.

Fox News: Enlisting Patriots for Pam Geller's Rally Jan 12th said:
Sarah

Yeah, Sarah Palin is definitely a weasel. And in politics, you sometimes reap what you sew, don’t you JimBo?

I think you’re close…

Greg Palmer said:
a surveyors symbol

They tried to make that stick but it didn’t fly.Call it what you will it was a crosshair from a gun.

Next up, Tommy will rage against “jokes” about eating Irish children for dinner.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Speaking of nasty, Nacho, how is your pal Gov. Brewer? Can I assume she is still alive and well?

Hopefully she is safe and sound in her bed like you should be, m’am. Finish your tea and go back to bed, I’m sure you have some scrap booking to do early in the morning.

Jim Treacher said:
Next up, Tommy will rage against “jokes” about eating Irish children for dinner.

Fuck you again, asshole. You’re not Swift. And I mean that in every possible sense.

Jim Treacher said:
Next up, Tommy will rage against “jokes” about eating Irish children for dinner.

I have a modest proposal for you. Don’t you have a blog to shit your brains out on? Why don’t you go use it? See if Tucker thinks child rape is funny.

Tommy Christopher said:
F*** you again, asshole. You’re not Swift. And I mean that in every possible sense.

Says the second coming of Wilde. You know exactly what my point is and why I’m making it. You have no response, so you’re pretending to be offended. We’ve had this go-around before. You’re not a particularly quick learner.

Tommy Christopher said:
I have a modest proposal for you. Don’t you have a blog to shit your brains out on? Why don’t you go use it? See if Tucker thinks child rape is funny.

Sounds like eliminationist rhetoric to me!

JamesA1102 said:
Nothing to look up at so you’ll be waiting a long time.

You could have answered the question any number of ways . I would have had more respect for you if had doubled down on the crazy and spewed more baseless accusations . Instead you only confirmed , that like many others you need to grow a pair . ( h/t Seeing 2012 )

Jim Treacher said:
Says the second coming of Wilde. You know exactly what my point is and why I’m making it. You have no response, so you’re pretending to be offended. We’ve had this go-around before. You’re not a particularly quick learner.

Yeah, asshole, I eat my lunch out of the paper bag you can’t write your way out of. Your joke’s premise is hack bullshit, but the execution is vile and child-hating.

Tommy Christopher said:
Yeah, asshole, I eat my lunch out of the paper bag you can’t write your way out of. Your joke’s premise is hack bullshit, but the execution is vile and child-hating.

Yes, you’re really swinging for the fences, compositionally speaking. If I were you, this would be the part where I’d say something half-witted about striking a nerve.

George C said:
You could have answered the question any number of ways . I would have had more respect for you if had doubled down on the crazy and spewed more baseless accusations . Instead you only confirmed , that like many others you need to grow a pair . ( h/t Seeing 2012 )

Oh so since I didn’t buy into your BS, I’m not a real man. You’re the one doubling down on crazy and spewing baseless accusations as well as racist comments.

Jim Treacher said:
Next up, Tommy will rage against “jokes” about eating Irish children for dinner.

You sure do seem to be obessed with child rape and little children in general. I hope you don’t live near a day care or elementary school.

JamesA1102 said:
Oh so since I didn’t buy into your BS, I’m not a real man. You’re the one doubling down on crazy and spewing baseless accusations as well as racist comments.

Still no answer, shocker. LOL

Jim Treacher said:
Yes, you’re really swinging for the fences, compositionally speaking. If I were you, this would be the part where I’d say something half-witted about striking a nerve.

And that’s why you’re still wondering how the fuck you’ll ever get out of that paper bag.

the real john t said:
You sure do seem to be obessed with child rape and little children in general. I hope you don’t live near a day care or elementary school.

I hope that someday you graduate from one.

Tommy Christopher said:
And that’s why you’re still wondering how the f*** you’ll ever get out of that paper bag.

Keep saying f***. (Moderator’s privilege!) It really adds oomph and isn’t screechy at all.

George C said:
Still no answer, shocker. LOL

No need to answer. You already know it. You’re just playing games now because you got caught making a racist reference.

George C said:
You could have answered the question any number of ways . I would have had more respect for you if had doubled down on the crazy and spewed more baseless accusations . Instead you only confirmed , that like many others you need to grow a pair .

WOW! Like anybody cares about what George’s respect for them is. He’s just a loney pudgy little pathetic man talking tough at his computer.

JamesA1102 said:
No need to answer. You already know it. You’re just playing games now because you got caught making a racist reference.

When you look in the mirror James , you can say to yourself , ” I really avoided that one ” . Good for you . LOL

JamesA1102 said:
No need to answer. You already know it. You’re just playing games now because you got caught making a racist reference.

But Georgie likes pictures of naked men. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, if that’s what he’s into. I hope he finds happiness someday.

George C said:
When you look in the mirror James , you can say to yourself , ” I really avoided that one ” . Good for you . LOL

I avoided nothing. I called you out on your racist remark and now your trying to obfuscate.

sarainitaly said:
You don’t read much, do you? http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/spreading-hate.html Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ blood is on Sarah Palin’s hands after putting cross hair over district http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/09/2011-01-09_palin_put_a_target_on_her_she_should_have_known_the_dangers.html#ixzz1Ah9avpbI http://newsbusters.org/blogs/alex-fitzsimmons/2011/01/11/msnbcs-mitchell-blames-palin-again-tucson-shooting http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/11/halperin-hey-why-did-conservatives-defend-themselves-from-being-smeared/ http://newsbusters.org/archive/2009%3Fpage%3D3/9/node/blog/26?page=2&from=15 http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/barbara-walters-defends-sarah-palin-blaming-her-giffords-shooting-ver http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/barbara-walters-defends-sarah-palin-blaming-her-giffords-shooting-ver

I’m not reading that crap. You get me something from better sources.

George C said:
Does it need to be a certified ,licensed , collectable “Planet of the Apes

JamesA1102 said:
Wow you went with the racist reference really quick there.

George C said:
My curiosity now piqued , how is a Planet of the Apes mirror racist ? I’ll wait .

Still waiting .

The whole reference is racist, as if you didn’t know.

http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2010/08/glenn-beck-the-planet-of-the-apes-blatent-racism/

JamesA1102 said:
The whole reference is racist, as if you didn’t know.

“A black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics ”

* sigh *

w_t_f said:
I’m not reading that crap. You get me something from better sources.

She doesn’t know any better sources. That’s the only ones where she gets her information from. She claims they represent the truth. Don’t you know Andrew Breitbart is a truthful fellow? I just gagged writing that.

George C said:
“A black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics ” * sigh *

Nice evasion.

Jim Treacher said:
Which is precisely why I’m protecting you from the charge that you, Tommy Christopher, have ever molested children. There has yet to be presented a single bit of evidence, as of early Wednesday morning. Glad to help.

the only way that would even be an equal mis-judging is if Tommy had pictures of unknown children on his computer, phone or wallet. Then and only then could you say…Maybe Tommy’s a pedophile?

If Mama Grizzley didn’t have crosshairs on a map and especially one on Giffords district, there’d be no dots/crosshairs to connect even in the slightest. Fool

JamesA1102 said:
Nice evasion.

Considering the source , I gave it its due .

w_t_f said:
the only way that would even be an equal mis-judging is if Tommy had pictures of unknown children on his computer, phone or wallet. Then and only then could you say…Maybe Tommy’s a pedophile?

If Mama Grizzley didn’t have crosshairs on a map and especially one on Giffords district, there’d be no dots/crosshairs to connect even in the slightest. Fool

Well said.

In case you missed it, I finished pwning Jim Treacher on twitter:

http://twitter.com/jtLOL/statuses/25074925295374336

http://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/statuses/25075693570236416

http://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/statuses/25076391833772032

George C said:
Considering the source , I gave it its due .

And even more evasion.

Wow that will really show em.

JamesA1102 said:
And even more evasion.

James I see that you have have been a Costco sized douchebag this evening . To qoute ” Good for you “.

The real Royal Gnome said:
James I see that you have have been a Costco sized douchebag this evening . To qoute ” Good for you “.

And I see that you have nothing to offer but insluts.

JamesA1102 said:
And even more evasion.

A one time obscure blog post , that you’re certain I should have been aware of …………..HA HA HA HA HA HA

Don’t play their game Tommy, you’re better than that.

Tommy Christopher said:
In case you missed it, I finished pwning Jim Treacher on twitter:

A grown man wrote that sentence.

JamesA1102 said:
And I see that you have nothing to offer but insluts.

Is that a slur or flattery ?

OHUTAK said:
for the left than for Sarah herself

Bullshit Palin will be bound to this like the crosshairs on her map.Real Americans want their country back from people like Palin.

Jim Treacher said:
A grown man wrote that sentence.

Not really.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Tommy, just look at your own site. It’s posted several stories of libs outright accusing the right of murder. Do we really need us to post links to your own site?

Huh? Mediaite has also posted stories of Limbaugh doing the same to the left. In your delusional mind, that is not fair? They should only have put up Limbaugh’s “defense?” What a joke.

BTW, I never ever got your response on whether Gov. Janice Brewer is running death panels in AZ Missy!

Tommy Christopher said:
Yeah, asshole, I eat my lunch out of the paper bag you can’t write your way out of. Your joke’s premise is hack bullshit, but the execution is vile and child-hating.

Hahaha…that was great Tommy! Great fair article by the way, but again, I know you have had to improve ” a lot” since MichelleF (aka Seeing 2012 From My Pig Sty) has been giving you authorship:”lessons” from her copy and pasted crap. :)

George C said:
A one time obscure blog post , that you’re certain I should have been aware of …………..HA HA HA HA HA HA

Not one time and not that obscure: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_walsh/politics/2010/08/06/glenn_beck_planet_of_the_apes
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/07/glenn-beck-compares-obama_n_674591.html
http://gawker.com/5607840/why-does-glenn-beck-think-the-obama-administration-is-like-planet-of-the-apes
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/147797/glenn_beck_outdoes_david_duke_with_shameless_racebating/
http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2010/8/6/95941/58841/Diary/Glenn-Beck-s-quot-Planet-of-the-Apes-quot-Show
http://www.thegrio.com/politics/glenn-beck-obamas-america-is-planet-of-the-apes.php

JamesA1102 said:
The whole reference is racist, as if you didn’t know. http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2010/08/glenn-beck-the-planet-of-the-apes-blatent-racism/

figures that would come from the beckerhead

I just love how the RWers defend Palin. They say those cross hairs didn’t mean a thing. That every person knows it. EVERY PERSON? How about the mental lunatic that did the shooting? Did he know what they meant? They say Democrats use that image all the time but none of them has ever shown where a Democrat used them. There was a RWer on here the other day spouting how Loughner had a letter from Giffords from 2007 before Palin or the Tea Party was in the picture. Well that’s fine but why did he wait until Nov. 2010 to buy a gun and do the shooting Jan. 2011? What pushed the nutcase over the edge. I’m not in anyway accusing Palin or Bachmann for the shooting but I will not defend their insane rhetoric of “Don’t retreat, reload” or “I want my party armed and dangerous”.

The real Royal Gnome said:
Is that a slur or flattery ?

It’s whatever you want it to be, sunshine!

JamesA1102 said:
Not one time and not that obscure:

Young Turks
Joan Walsh
HuffPO

The scholarly posts I see.

I just want to say for the record that I think Sarah Palin is in no way responsible for the actions of that lunatic in Arizona. Only he is responsible just as only the 9/11 hijackers and those who aided them are the only ones responsible for what happened on 9/11, not every other Muslim or Arab in the world.

The real Royal Gnome said:
The scholarly posts I see.

HA ! Literary Giants all .

The real Royal Gnome said:
Young TurksJoan WalshHuffPO The scholarly posts I see.

You said it, not me!

Jim Treacher said:
There really isn’t any evidence that you, Tommy Christopher, have ever molested children. That’s totally serious.

Can you believe this was written by a so called Adult.

Jim Treacher said:
A grown man wrote that sentence.

That probably disapoints you since you are obsessed with little children. Get some mental help, quick.

the real john t said:
I just love how the RWers defend Palin. They say those cross hairs didn’t mean a thing. That every person knows it. EVERY PERSON? How about the mental lunatic that did the shooting? Did he know what they meant? They say Democrats use that image all the time but none of them has ever shown where a Democrat used them. There was a RWer on here the other day spouting how Loughner had a letter from Giffords from 2007 before Palin or the Tea Party was in the picture. Well that’s fine but why did he wait until Nov. 2010 to buy a gun and do the shooting Jan. 2011? What pushed the nutcase over the edge. I’m not in anyway accusing Palin or Bachmann for the shooting but I will not defend their insane rhetoric of “Don’t retreat, reload” or “I want my party armed and dangerous”.

JamesA1102 said:
I just want to say for the record that I think Sarah Palin is in no way responsible for the actions of that lunatic in Arizona. Only he is responsible just as only the 9/11 hijackers and those who aided them are the only ones responsible for what happened on 9/11, not every other Muslim or Arab in the world.

I agree with both of you as well.

Tommy Christopher said:
As I said in my article, of course Palin’s opponents are pressing the point (just as Palin would if this had happened to Barack Obama), but that doesn’t mitigate the actual point. If nobody even knew who Palin was, and this same confluence of events occurred, this would still be a huge story. If this happened in some obscure mayoral race, it would still be a big story.

And the point they’re pressing isn’t that Palin is responsible for the tragedy, but that the tragedy illustrates the irresponsibility of the graphic, which it does.

Tommy -

Palin would never (and this is my best assumption since I’m not actually her) equate Obama to the murder of several people. Explain where in her rhetoric where she has done something that would signify this attitude? Unless you can equate another of her statements to this effect, that’s a blatant misuse of finger typing.

Second of all, Palin is being the adult in this situation. She is letting the families grieve. The media is ginning up a non-story about a guy that wasn’t self-diagnosed/slipped through the system. Simple as that. That’s the type of leadership that I want in a potential leader. It’s not about Palin, it’s about these families that have just experienced trauma that will forever change their lives.

the real john t said:
Get some mental help, quick.

Next up: Stevie Wonder, Art Critic.

WCinWI said:
Palin is being the adult in this situation

Bullshit, she is in hiding.Her handlers are holding her back from making things worse.People are just waiting,she has to come out sometime.

First of all, it’s disgusting to bring pedophilia into this debate, period. Secondly, it’s extremely unprofessional for a journalist to engage with someone making such comments rather than ignore or have site moderation remove the comments. I won’t even address the juvenile twitter tantrum or “pwned” comment by a grown, professional man.

It looks like someone tossed out the bait and you took it, Mr. Christopher. Much as I dislike Palin, can’t help thinking there is an analogy here. You are pushing for her to take the bait and respond, just as you did. That didn’t seem to go too well for you — she should learn from your mistake and not throw fuel on the fire by being goaded into addressing such comments.

Can it ever just be that crazy is just plain crazy without any political persuasion being to blame for it? And if something on a website spurred this nut into action, wouldn’t the most recent “dead to me” posting seem to be more relevant a causation than one made nearly a year ago?

It isn’t anyone’s fault this happened except the sick, deranged soul who committed the act. It’s ridiculous to think this would never have occurred but for Sarah Palin’s crosshairs graphic. Although I hate guns and would never vote for Palin for any position, neither she nor her website are to blame, nor does she owe anyone an “apology.”

Wouldn’t matter what she said anyway…she’d be ripped to shreds for it, even if it were verbatim what you proposed she say. Better to just keep her mouth shut, IMO, since she won’t ever “pwn” anyone with her responses.

JamesA1102 said:
You said it, not me!

lol ,on that . The rest not so much .

WCinWI said:
Second of all, Palin is being the adult in this situation.

Is that why she jerked that map off her website right after the shootings?

Bunny said:
nor does she owe anyone an “apology

I would think the congresswoman laying in bed with a gunshot to her head would beg to differ considering she had just pointed out Palins crosshair target map saying how dangerous it was just a few days earlier. But I guess we Americans will just have to wait to see what the Mamma Grizzly has to say.

ROCKSTEADY said:
Bullshit, she is in hiding.Her handlers are holding her back from making things worse.People are just waiting,she has to come out sometime.

First of all, get some soap. Or at least learn that it’s not cool in 2011 to swear.

There is no need right now for Palin to be present. The families need to mourn. Perhaps you have never been surrounded by death. If that’s the case, good for you. Most people like to think of good memories and not political punditry.

Tommy,

You have really lost ur mind. What a hack.

WCinWI said:
First of all, get some soap. Or at least learn that it’s not cool in 2011 to swear.

Grow up

ROCKSTEADY said:
I would think the congresswoman laying in bed with a gunshot to her head would beg to differ considering she had just pointed out Palins crosshair target map saying how dangerous it was just a few days earlier. But I guess we Americans will just have to wait to see what the Mamma Grizzly has to say.

Is there some evidence the shooter actually saw that graphic and it somehow pushed him over the edge and caused him to shoot the congresswoman? Unless/until that’s established, I don’t see the link.

I don’t like defending Palin because I find her distasteful; however, there has been no link that I can find to establish that her website caused the man to shoot anyone.

WCinWI said:
There is no need right now for Palin to be present

Palin Loves the limelight when its making her money.

the real john t said:
Is that why she jerked that map off her website right after the shootings?

There is ample explanation for why this was removed. Go to Tammy Bruce’s website for the public internet interview with Mansour. It makes sense. If anything, it was pure bad paper logic to not have a record for if the website would remain live after the election cycle.

It’s not my fault if you’re prejudiced in your own personality to see this commonsense logic.

ROCKSTEADY said:
Palin Loves the limelight when its making her money.

No – true leaders just know when to fade into the back.

There’s no point in dealing with someone prejudiced in their own thinking though.

Bunny said:
I don’t like defending Palin because I find her distasteful; however, there has been no link that I can find to establish that her website caused the man to shoot anyone.

I didn’t say that. I said the congresswoman would disagree with your saying she shouldn’t apologize considering she had just made a comment about Palins map.

WCinWI said:
true leaders just know when to fade into the back.

Sarah Palin is NOT a leader.

WCinWI said:
There is no need right now for Palin to be present.

Yes, you are correct, she should stay in hiding. If she came out and said something it would probably make her look more ignorant than what she already is.

ROCKSTEADY said:
I didn’t say that. I said the congresswoman would disagree with your saying she shouldn’t apologize considering she had just made a comment about Palins map.

She didn’t just say something about the map. If you’re going to try to make actual sense, try working with facts.

I actually like Mrs. Giffords. I’d seen her on Greta awhile back talking about illegal immigration. She used to be a Republican so perhaps that’s why so many people on both sides like her. There are some moderates that are just squishy, but she seemed commonsense and is easily likable.

WCinWI said:
No – true leaders just know when to fade into the back.

How in the hell can you RWers talk about Palin being a “true leader” when she quit halfway through her term as Governor. That’s down right pathetic.

Sarah’s screwed.

If she comes out with guns blazing she pisses off the independents, if she comes out and apologizes she pisses off her base, which is all she has left right now.

In Japan they have a way of handling this…

WCinWI said:
She used to be a Republican

I suppose you can prove that with a link.

ROCKSTEADY said:
I didn’t say that. I said the congresswoman would disagree with your saying she shouldn’t apologize considering she had just made a comment about Palins map.

Fair enough. I just hope she will recover, whatever the cause of the shooter’s sick, evil act.

the real john t said:
How in the hell can you RWers talk about Palin being a “true leader” when she quit halfway through her term as Governor. That’s down right pathetic.

You can continue to try and use that meme but it’s old and tired. This has been explained numerous times. Get it through your head that laws affect people, even Governors. And if you have a citizenry based on particular people that want to tear you down just for the sake of it, then it is your duty to think of your citizens and leave them with more money than when you left. Why is it hard for libs to understand legal practices? Sheesh.

the real john t brown in ohio said:
Yes, you are correct, she should stay in hiding. If she came out and said something it would probably make her look more ignorant than what she already is.

This says the most proven wrong poster in Mediaite history . You can’t make this stuff up.

the real john t said:
I suppose you can prove that with a link.

Quite easily. :) It comes around the 3:30 mark.

http://arizonaspolitics.blogspot.com/2011/01/watch-arizona-rep-gabrielle-giffords-on.html

WCinWI said:
And if you have a citizenry based on particular people that want to tear you down just for the sake of it, then it is your duty to think of your citizens and leave them with more money than when you left. Why is it hard for libs to understand legal practices? Sheesh.

First of all it wasn’t up to the state of Alaska to pay her legal fees.

Secondly, “leave them with more money than when you left.” Is that what she did to the town of Wasilla? A town of 7,000 people that when she left was $20 million in debt. Why is it you RWers won’t cease with your Palin defense and look at the real truth?

BFD said:
Sarah’s screwed.

If she comes out with guns blazing she pisses off the independents, if she comes out and apologizes she pisses off her base, which is all she has left right now.

In Japan they have a way of handling this…

Please, not *another* new Sanrio character!

murf said:
murf says:
January 12, 2011 at 2:48 am

I see my stalker is back. You do know there’s a law against that in the state of Ohio don’t you.But I won’t say where in you live in Ohio or your name. I don’t believe in giving out someones personal information unless they post it on the internet, unlike you. Now why don’t you go buddy up with your butt buddy Gordon Blowhard.

Bunny said:
Please, not *another* new Sanrio character!

lol

Seriously though, everyone in the media needs to lay off Sarah Palin now. Everything that needed to be said has been said. 100 times.

If the media keeps piling on people will start feeling sympathy for Palin, and although she doesn’t deserve any blame, she certainly doesn’t deserve any sympathy.

The media just needs to call out any NEW over-the-top rhetoric from either side, and condemn it immediately.
I don’t think America has the stomach for it anymore and those who continue it will pay a price imo.

In other words, it time to look forwards, not backwards.

BTW, great article, Tommy. You summed up the last few days and the choices to move forward perfectly. :)

She’s retreating, Tommy, until her ghost writers give her some ammo to reload.

sarainitaly said:
Even though she is 100% NOT responsible, and has been on the receiving end of the most VILE and extreme hate we have ever seen, she is most likely remaining silent because she is speechless, and feeling terrible, having actually been so very wrongly and most unfairly blamed for the murder of 6 innocent people.

Stop painting her as a victim. If she can’t handle this kind of criticism, she’s not fit to be the Leader of the Free World. The Fringe Right make suggestions about OBAMA that are even more grandiose than this on a daily basis.

Gee, it’s almost like you’d think people were slamming her daughters dancing abilities or something.

DorkyMcForky said:
Probably 80%, if not more, of that show was dedicated to Palin and her map. He kept mentioning what happened in Arizona and then he would start talking about Palin and her map and her rhetoric. And then he would talk about Palin and her map and her rhetoric and then immediately reference the shooting that occured. ANY person with an IQ about 25 would know exactly what he was trying to d

And anyone with an IQ above 25 knows what Sarah Palin means when she says that “Obama likes to pal around with terrorists”. Gee, let’s put the word “OBAMA” and “TERRORISTS” in the same sentence. And while we’re out it, let’s call “Obamacare” a means of invoking “Death Panels”.

It doesn’t matter if you like Sarah or not but to try to defend her from rhetorical tactics that she is notorious for utilizing is simply ridiculous.

WCinWI said:
Tommy -

Palin would never (and this is my best assumption since I’m not actually her) equate Obama to the murder of several people. Explain where in her rhetoric where she has done something that would signify this attitude? .

Umm…she has. She said Obama “pals around” aka hangs out with terrorists. Remember that? Terrorists sure as hell don’t kill flies. She linked Obama to murderers and did so at a public political rally!

Gasket said:
Umm…she has. She said Obama “pals around” aka hangs out with terrorists. Remember that? Terrorists sure as hell don’t kill flies. She linked Obama to murderers and did so at a public political rally!

fact vs fiction

When Palin reinvented her target map to a surveyor’s map she euthanized her political career. When she made the decision to whitewash her website at the same time she should have issued a statement expressing her sorrow for the tragedy in AZ and acknowledge that she was taking down the map out of respect for Rep. Giffords. Very few words about the map since she had justified it in the past so at this point she shouldn’t backpaddle.
The steps that Palin took have made her appear that she feels guilty. The silly story of trying to change cross-hair to surveyor was so childish, she has used bullseye, load and numerous other gun references. I can’t see how anyone could have confidence in her now. Her ardent supporters will defend her even if she committed a capital crime in front of their own eyes from her Fox studio. That type of devotion is dangerous. Cult-like.

Yes, Reponsible journalists have pointed out that there is no evidence of a link between this rather generic political poster and the tragic events in Tuscon. Here is a partial list of other things responsible journalists could point out as having no evidence linking them to the shooting:

The care bears
Godzilla
The tv show saved by the bell
Sandals
Eating Chinese food

How does this shooting illustrate the irresponsibility of the poster any more than it does the irresponsibility of wearing sandals? Why not have a picture of chicken chow mein running in the background as you discuss these events?

It is ridiculous to say that the shameful attempts of her media opponents to establish a mental association between Palin and the shooting by repeated referral to something that they admit there is no more intellectual reason to focus on than springrolls or the hijinks of high school student Zac Morris. Her knack for inspiring idiocy and odiousness in her enemies is one of her greatest political assets.

SP: American hero and patriot!

I now turns out that the police had been to the killer’s home a number of times before this occurred.

This explains why the sheriff is trying to blame rhetoric when in fact ik was his incompetence that allowed this massacre to occur.

The sheriff needs to explain his actions and then he must resign and be charged as an accessory to murder.

Scum said:
It is ridiculous to say that the shameful attempts of her media opponents to establish a mental association between Palin and the shooting by repeated referral to something that they admit there is no more intellectual reason to focus on than springrolls

Errr…there is one connection….the woman with the bullet through her brain was worried, and said so, about the consequences of Palin’s irresponsible actions but was not worried about the actions of a spring roll.

For that reason alone it became relevant to discuss.

Tommy Christopher said:
The difference is, if that did happen, liberals and Democrats would CONDEMN the guy, not cower silently, or try to defend him.

Totally untrue.

It’s called Retreating. To people like her and the other jokers on radio, its a game to do what they do. Now that the horrible incident has surface, she’s running scared for her life and that of her kids, especially when she also has a daughter in the age range of the 9yr old killed. When disaster hits, and the likeness is identical to yours, you become a changed person, if not you’re just screwed up and need help.
That’s why she’s retreating, words and actions have consequences, and the hatred turned to her is scary. Hope she changes her behavior, if not then life goes on.

lonestar77 said:
“As responsible media figures point out time and again, there is absolutely no evidence of a causal link, nor is anyone in the mainstream media suggesting one, but the juxtaposition will continue to dog Palin unless she does something to mitigate it.”

Totally false. KO and Krugman started to make a specious connection on Saturday; Krugman- 2 hours after it happened.

TC, you are as delusional as Jared!

Gasket said:
Umm…she has. She said Obama “pals around” aka hangs out with terrorists. Remember that? Terrorists sure as hell don’t kill flies. She linked Obama to murderers and did so at a public political rally!

Not only that she repeated it again and again, even though the audience were not really associating the terrorists to An American one, but rather Al-Qaieda. Irresponsible for the campaign to continue that at that time. On the other hand John Mccain was going around saying he (BO) is a good man, whilst Palin was still repeating the Palling around with terrorist crap.

She is neither retreating nor reloading; she is respecting the dead.

Something the liberal media and the democrat hacks on air will never understand. There is no “confluence of events” only those made up by the liberal left. All the discussion, both left and righty on “cross hairs” and theiruse in the political debate have been misrepresented totally. Right now, the attempt to politically -assassinate Palin is more than evident = putting her int he cross hairs. The left is eagerly waiting for some wacko to jump onto their rhe\toric and take a shot at her or her family members. that is what Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Altern, Sullivan, Andrea, Couric, Brian and Dianne all want to happen. For them, the death of Palin will be the only acceptable payback.

The media in this cou ntry is a disgrace, completely and utterly unhinged with the CDS/PDS. They are losing the respect of all americans as a result of their complete idiocy. The protection of the shooter by the democrat party and the sheriff is becoming more and more evident especially given what we are leaning about the sheriff
s office visit to the house of the suspect on numberous occassions.

Of course, those facts are being ignored by mediaite, much like Penn’s comment that Obama needed something like this to gain the support of the public. Perhaps Penn put the idea into the shooter’s head, and in fact, maybe the confluence of events means that Penn, Hillary’s old politico, is indeed the one and only guilty one.

Disgust and disgrace is what the media is doingf to themselves and they are shaming their profession; they are worse than whores.

“”"”Palmetto State Armory would like to honor our esteemed congressman Joe Wilson with the release of our new ‘You Lie’ AR-15 lower receiver,” the weapon manufacturer’s site writes in the product description. “Only 999 of these will be produced, get yours before they are gone!”"”"

Yeah, everything is hunky dory in this country. Nothing to worry about here.

Conservatives rarely needs empirical evidence for anything unless the accused is one of their own. Keep pretending, assuming this guy was the mental case that the majority of people claims him to be than imagery and heated rhetoric added fuel to the flames. Mentally imbalance is a term used primarily for conservatives to soften their violent actions. I would surmise if this so-called mad man had different characteristics the term mentally imbalance would not be used as often in the same situation.

Gasket said:
Umm…she has. She said Obama “pals around” aka hangs out with terrorists. Remember that? Terrorists sure as hell don’t kill flies. She linked Obama to murderers and did so at a public political rally!

Obama linked Obama to murderers. She just made a note of it.

Jim Treacher said:
Obama linked Obama to murderers. She just made a note of it.

A note that appeared inciting. A loud note at that.

sarainitaly said:
The coverage from the media has been awful, disgraceful and embarrassing. Sarah Palin was accused of murder. Murder! For using an image that is used by Democrats and Republicans. She was even accused by Markos, despite his almost identical imagery!

Even though she is 100% NOT responsible, and has been on the receiving end of the most VILE and extreme hate we have ever seen, she is most likely remaining silent because she is speechless, and feeling terrible, having actually been so very wrongly and most unfairly blamed for the murder of 6 innocent people.

I knew it but a matter of time until the bad penny showed up.

sarainitaly said:
i am in seattle visiting my mother.

I’m sure she has dealt with even worse things in her life.

Don’t know if its been posted here yet but Sarah Palin just put up a video on her FB page. It’s a great response and shows her amazing presidential potential.

the real john t said:
I suppose you can prove that with a link.

Are you even following the story? It has been said over and over on many news reports that she was a republican. YOU are really stupid. Wrong again. LOL.

A Kim Bo said:
And anyone with an IQ above 25 knows what Sarah Palin means when she says that “Obama likes to pal around with terrorists”. Gee, let’s put the word “OBAMA” and “TERRORISTS” in the same sentence. And while we’re out it, let’s call “Obamacare” a means of invoking “Death Panels”.

It doesn’t matter if you like Sarah or not but to try to defend her from rhetorical tactics that she is notorious for utilizing is simply ridiculous.

Please provide me the proof that Loughner saw/liked/was influenced by her map. There is none! We aren’t talking about Palins rhetoric on a substantive basis, we are talking about her words on a substantive basis; IE did Sarah Palins words/map play an active role in making this kid decide to shoot people? In order to prove that, you have to have some type of physical evidence to link the two together. You keep saying that her words had something to do with him going over the edge and shooting her, yet there is no proof that he ever paid attention to her, or politics in general. Why is this such a hard concept to understand? When the FBI releases something that proves that he had her crosshair map in his house/in his possession, then you can prove that her rhetoric pushed him over the edge. But until that day, all you are doing is speculating based on your political perspective.

TC:

So far, though, the best thing anyone can say about Palin is that she didn’t cause the shooting. Everyone but her most ardent fans (or fearful rivals) sees that the crosshair image crossed a line that even the more common (but in hindsight, ill-advised) bullseye graphic doesn’t approach. Even at the time, conservative darling Elisabeth Hasselbeck recognized this, and said so. For everyone but existing Palin loyalists, this argument is over.

Me:

I think that is the key to understanding what is happening here. If you try to put forth this argument, you incur the wrath of the crazed devotees. Palin is not under scrutiny for the shooting itself, and she never has been. What is happening is simply that the chickens have come home to roost. Palin’s public presence, since her emergence on the national stage has been characterized by three (3) crucial factors:

#1 Her utter self-absorption.
#2 Her undisciplined and at times reckless reasoning and use of language.
#3 Her self-proclaimed lack of accountability for anything and everything.

The three make for a strong brew if you’re one of the dwindling group of devotees or a toxic tonic if you’re a reasonable person and a dispassionate observer. What I believe to be the Palin stumble, perhaps downfall, is this very toxicity. So, it’s her own doing, and it shows that for Palin the Tucson tragedy was nothing more than a spotlight on her recklessness. This is a recklessness which, by the way, manifest itself unusually early in the 2008 campaign and one not to be cured, despite the best efforts of McCain’s staff, largely because of the self-absorption and lack of accountability.

TC:

Palin’s response, then, is crucial to how she will be seen by those she hopes to woo, either as a candidate or a media figure. She could have remained silent, and rode the thing out. Such a strategy had a decent shot at success, especially given her brief, but appropriate, initial statement on the shooting.

Me:

I’m not so sure. First, Palin is incapable of making a substantive statement which will redeem her in the eyes of all except her crazed devotees. It’s not in her very ample make-up to do this. Secondly, her early, now long ago, approval numbers were based upon image. When the image is shattered, as it has been, we turn to substance. When there is no “there” there, there is nothing left. Her crazed devotees may become even louder and crazier, but the core has the substance of nougat now. That’s not going to change.

TC:

Unfortunately, that ship sailed when SarahPAC aide Rebecca Mansour floated a ridiculous trial balloon, trying to recast the map’s imagery as “surveyor’s symbols,” despite Palin’s own proud acknowledgement of their meaning. Whether sanctioned by Palin or not, Mansour’s attempt showed a defensiveness that could be interpreted as consciousness of guilt.

Me:

You are absolutely correct. This was clumsy. Unbelievably so. Even for Camp Palin. But, it is wholly explicable in light of the self-absorption and lack of personal accountability. As such, it magnifies the need for Palin to come out and confront the issue head-on, with a good pit of grace and humility. That’s not going to happen.

To the extent Palin maintains some substance role in the party, it will only be because of a terrible dearth of talent. This is, interestingly, the reason a Joe Scarborough has an opportunity to re-invent himself. Beyond a rare Paul Ryan, and his ideas seem far less sound at the moment than they once did and his personality less colourful than I once thought, there isn’t much to draw upon except angry white men. But, in terms in of her role in a meaningful sense on the national stage, the play has closed to poor reviews.

I ought to have said substantive role.

The advantage of an apology, though, is that it gives Palin the chance to place the issue in its proper context, to say “I shouldn’t have used that image, I’m sorry I did, but it did not cause this tragedy. Focusing attention on a poor decision that I made does a disservice to the lives that were shattered on Saturday, which should be occupying all of our hearts and minds.”

Such an apology would have the added advantage of being the right thing to do.

No, that would be stupid. Where’s is the DC’s apology? Where is Kos’ apology? Why is it only Palin’s crosshairs that are inappropriate? Because they’re not inappropriate, that’s why. They’re just Palin’s and therefore reason for libs to lose their fu*king minds. Y’all wanna engage in insanity, keep it to yourselves. Sarah Palin is under no obligation to assuage liberal paranoid fantasies. What Sarah Palin ought to is probably what she just did: America’s Enduring Strength

You may now commence freaking out.

^^^DLC^^^

The Real Rabid Kook said:
Everyone but her most ardent fans (or fearful rivals) sees that the crosshair image crossed a line that even the more common (but in hindsight, ill-advised) bullseye graphic doesn’t approach.

Smoking the primo crack this morning, Kook? What are they cutting that with these days?

TangledThorns said:
Don’t know if its been posted here yet but Sarah Palin just put up a video on her FB page. It’s a great response and shows her amazing presidential potential.

I don’t know about POTUS potential, but it is a heaping helping of common sense.

Pablo said:
Smoking the primo crack this morning, Kook? What are they cutting that with these days?

Actually, Tommy wrote that, not I.

Your first hint should have been that it was in Tommy’s commentary.

Your second hint ought to have been the manner in which the parenthetical devices were used. There is no usage more personal in written English than the nature of the usage of such devices. The latitude is immense. I find Tommy’s usage clever and appropriate, but not my own cup of tea. I would have personally gone with: All save her most ardent fans and her most fearful rivals ….

The Real Rabid Kook said:
Actually, Tommy wrote that, not I.

Good point, Kook.

The Real Rabid Kook said:
I think that is the key to understanding what is happening here.

So, you’re smoking the primo crack this morning, Kook? What are they cutting that with these days? Is Tommy bogarting the glass?

I think her gun jammed!

Tommy Christopher said:
Everything you’re saying here is a paraphrase of the opening paragraphs of my article, so I don’t see what your problem is. If you don’t think the media should be talking about this at all, explain why. Explain how any news editor is supposed to ignore the confluence of Giffords’ shooting, Palin’s map, and Giffords’ interview denouncing it.

I’m wondering why you have chosen to ignore the VERY relevent info coming out about his mutilple run-ins with the polic that were either ignored or swept away….possibly because his mother works for Pima County.

While you reach to tie this to Palin and reprint much of the bullshit that has been spewed…..breathlessly reporting innuendo and unsubstanciated smear……you ignore DIRECT evidence that malefeasence has occurred.

No Tommy…..you might fool your fellow libs with your crap……but I can see you for the Palin hating, liberal hack you are.

PS Tommy…..any objective source wouldn’t ignore ALL of the other instances of this type of suymbolism being used.

Only somebody looking to poke at Palin or her supporters would ignore the plethora of other evidence and focus laser-like on ONE occurance.

Only a hack does his reporting like this.

Hack.

One last BTW hack…..errrr Tommy…..why no mention at all of the remarks of former Rep Kanjorski?

You know….the ones where he stated unequivocably, unmistakebly, in the run up to the election that Scott eventually won, that he should be shot.

Not just that……that and I’m quoting…..

“Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him.”

All because of differing opinions on health care……

Read more on Newsmax.com: Defeated Dem: Florida’s Scott Should Be Shot
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama’s Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

John says:

I suppose you can prove that with a link.

As usual John is uninformed. She was on with Bill Hemmer and he said, “you sound like a Repub” and she responded, “well I used to be one”.

Anyone can play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with any event. John Wayne Gacy was a Democrat who posed for pictures with Rosalynn Carter. Was Rosalynn ‘blamed’ when all the bodies were found? This is pretty much the same deal.

notsofast said:
SP: American hero and patriot!

I now turns out that the police had been to the killer’s home a number of times before this occurred.

This explains why the sheriff is trying to blame rhetoric when in fact ik was his incompetence that allowed this massacre to occur.

The sheriff needs to explain his actions and then he must resign and be charged as an accessory to murder.

Too bad the liberals ignore this information.

She’s neither retreating nor reloading. She’s just stupid.

SarahP. said:
She’s neither retreating nor reloading. She’s just stupid.

I like her….she’s a breath of fresh air.

writer said:
Anyone can play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with any event. John Wayne Gacy was a Democrat who posed for pictures with Rosalynn Carter. Was Rosalynn ‘blamed’ when all the bodies were found? This is pretty much the same deal.

Taking the high road as usual I see.