‘A Vast Difference’: Terror Expert Talks to MSNBC’s Ari Melber About Comparing Hamas Attack and Israeli Response in Gaza

MSNBC host Ari Melber interviewed terrorism expert and senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations Bruce Hoffman on Thursday about the ongoing Israel-Hamas war.

Melber and Hoffman covered a wide variety of topics related to the conflict in the in-depth interview and drilled down on trying to understand what Hamas’s goals were when they brutally murdered some 1,500 Israelis – mostly civilians – on October 7th.

“Well, I think terrorists are using this material to get people’s attention to elicit an emotional and not necessarily a rational response. And terrorism is always a strategy of provocation,” Hoffman said in response to Melber asking about spreading propaganda in the war.

“They’re trying to provoke their enemies to do something that the terrorists believe in the long run will play into their favor,” Hoffman continued, adding:

“Well, in this case, provoke Israel to bomb Gaza and then launch a ground invasion that, as past experiences, as past Gaza wars have shown results in the continuing isolation of Israel and the opprobrium heaped upon it throughout the world, the mass demonstrations that in turn influence governments that are even supportive of Israel now. But a few weeks from now, if the Gaza war continues, might not be so that’s really their goal with these images, is to drive an emotional response, to provoke governments to respond, and then hope it rebounds in their favor.

After a brief discussion about President Joe Biden warning Israel not to repeat some of America’s mistakes post-9/11, Melber then asked:

So I put this to you today in the most cerebral, least emotional manner possible, which is, as a terrorism expert, what do you say to this view here espoused by at least part of the United Nations and others that if the U.S. or Israel or a nation-state conducts a bombing campaign or does traditional warfare, that results in the lost civilian life, it is somehow on par with Hamas or ISIS war crimes of slaughter?

“I don’t agree with it and I don’t buy it because terrorists deliberately target civilians. The outcome may be the same in warfare that civilians are inevitably drawn into the maw of conflict and suffer,” Hoffman replied, adding:

But militaries don’t necessarily deliberately target civilians. In Israel’s case, this is too, well, they’ve given warning. Hamas gave no warning to the communities along the Gaza border. Israel has dropped leaflets, has tried to at least encourage people to leave those urban areas so that they won’t be caught in this terrible urban fighting. I mean, that’s a vast difference from terrorism. But of course, we should lament when civilians are wantonly killed and when they’re wantonly and deliberately killed. It’s called a war crime.

“Do you think that part of the propaganda or communication efforts by some of these terror groups is to try to encourage a sensibility or a mood out there that well, it’s all kind of the same when some people are dying, that that almost could serve their interests?” Melber followed up.

“No, absolutely. That’s precisely their goal. And that’s also part of why they use this very powerful emotional imagery to exactly trigger that kind of response,” Hoffman replied.

Watch the full clip above via MSNBC.