House Democrat Spars With Fox News Anchor Over Trump’s Cabinet Discussing Removing Him

Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA) and Fox News anchor Martha MacCallum sparred on Wednesday’s edition of The Story over whether President Joe Biden’s fitness to be president versus that of President Donald Trump. The at the times tense exchange got particularly heated when Moulton accused MacCallum of refusing to admit that President Trump’s cabinet considered removing him during his first term, which she then acknowledged.

MacCallum began the interview, saying, “It’s good to have you. You know, as you look back on this, especially as a veteran, and you talk about being with him at the 80th anniversary of the landing at Normandy, does it go beyond, you know, you said you felt that he shouldn’t run, and you came out, you’re one of the early ones to say that, but are there moments when you say to yourself, I can’t believe that we let him be president at that point, be the commander-in-chief?”

“No, you know, the evidence we have is that he was still making the right decisions as commander-in-chief, although I think it’s a perfectly legitimate question to ask. But you really do have to wonder why so many Democrats thought that he would be a good candidate going forward when the American people could see with their own eyes that this wasn’t right. And that’s why I was working behind the scenes at first and then much more publicly to say we need a new candidate for this election,” Moulton replied.

“But I have to question that issue about him doing a good job as commander-in-chief, because I was speaking earlier to another former member of the military who talked about giving up Bagram Air Base, just as an example, and that the Chinese snapped it up shortly after that, just one example. And what about saying basically to Vladimir Putin, a minor incursion is one thing. And then what we saw was just a complete effort to take over Ukraine. So, you know, what evidence is there that he was functioning well or that he was being advised well and was able to process that advice in order to make these really important decisions at the time?” MacCallum replied.

“Well, first of all, look, I was a critic of the Afghanistan withdrawal, but Trump was the one who made the deal with the Taliban, negotiating with terrorists to actually put us on an accelerated timeline to do that. And so, well, actually, the evidence is that he would have pulled out even sooner than Biden did,” Moulton began, trying to flip the script, adding:

So Biden delayed the withdrawal based on the Trump timeline. I’m not sure that was the right or the wrong decision. But you could certainly ask, you know, should he have completely changed the strategy and say that we shouldn’t withdraw from Afghanistan at all? I think these are reasonable questions.

But what I do know is that Trump’s cabinet, several members of his cabinet had very real discussions about whether he was qualified to be president, about invoking the amendment to say we should take the presidential powers away from him when he was doing the shenanigans around January 6th.

“But doesn’t that seem kind of laughable at this point, when you look at what President Biden– Jake Sullivan, he didn’t recognize Jake Sullivan at one point. He didn’t recognize you, and he supported you.

“Here’s my point, Martha. Biden’s cabinet apparently did not convene those discussions,” Moulton replied as they spoke over each other.

MacCallum hit back, “Yeah, that’s what I’m asking you, why?”

“Well, I think it’s a good question why Trump’s cabinet convened those discussions and Biden’s cabinet didn’t,” Moulton replied as MacCallum protested, “But that’s not the question.”

“No, it is, because it’s a fair question about whether this was actually something that should be on the table for discussion,” Moulton replied.

“Well, but the problem is that the American people in the interim went to the polls and decided to elect Trump for another term,” MacCallum said as Moulton tried to interject, but she continued:

But I’m asking you a very specific question because you were with him on two different occasions and had serious questions about his abilities. 70 to 80 percent in two different polls, the Wall Street Journal and CNN, of the American public said he can’t mentally or physically do the job anymore. So really, I think this has become a question, and I think it’s a valid question for all of the people concerned. Why was he able to still be the president at that point?

“Here’s my point. I saw him once at Normandy, and I had this question, but the people who saw him on a much more regular basis, his own cabinet officials, never had that discussion, and yet Trump’s cabinet did,” Moulton replied as MacCallum said, “Maybe they liked it that way!”

“So I don’t understand why you’re defending Trump when his cabinet was literally having a discussion about taking the presidential powers away from him, and you had Biden’s cabinet, who saw him every day, didn’t have that discussion,” Moulton argued.

MacCallum shot back, “I thought that discussion seemed ridiculous at that point, honestly, because there wasn’t any indication that he wasn’t capable, and certainly polls weren’t showing that he wasn’t able. But I’m asking you–”

Moulton jumped back in, “Well, actually, if you don’t follow the Constitution, you’re pretty incapable because you’re supposed to actually uphold the oath that you swore to protect and defend the Constitution. So if you’re going to defend January 6th, go ahead, go to the grave defending January 6th.”

“I completely understand that that’s your opinion on the issue, and I respect that. You’re entitled to your opinion and your perspective, you’re an elected official,” she replied as Moulton replied:

I’m entitled to respect the Constitution, Martha, I think you should respect the constitution as well. And by the way, the reason that we want to have this discussion today is because behind us, Republicans are passing a massive bill to throw a bomb and blow up the deficit to cut taxes for billionaires so that they can take healthcare away from millions of Americans and send a massive deficit to our kids to try to figure out how to pay for it. So look, I was honest about what I thought about Biden. I think Democrats need to regain credibility with the American people, so I’m willing to have this debate with you. But if you can’t be honest about what Trump’s own cabinet was saying about him, then we can’t have an honest debate.

MacCallum replied, “They said that. Rob Rosenstein said it. I interviewed him. You know, I’m not saying that that didn’t happen. I’m just asking why it didn’t happen when it seems like there was now so much, so many people, you know, saying they were really worried about him. And it appears that his family was trying to keep him in place, that maybe people who worked for him were okay with the situation, that they were getting to do what they wanted to do. By their proximity to the president. I’m raising this question because, especially as a veteran, I’m asking, you know, given your very clear concerns that you made very early on, I’m asking you if you had that, and you said no, you didn’t have that reservation about him as commander in chief.”

“I asked this question of White House officials, and they said, no, when he has to make these decisions, he’s making the right decisions. And so, you know, those are the people who are close to him. But I think it’s a fair question for you as a reporter to ask these cabinet officials,” Moulton conceded, adding:

I mean, I think I don’t have a problem with you asking them that question. But I certainly asked that question, I got answers that I thought were like, look, he might not be in his prime, we could all see that with our own eyes, but he’s not incompetent. He’s not violating the Constitution. That he’s not forgetting his oath. He’s not inciting an insurrection, right? So those are things that Biden was still able to do right by the oath that he swore to protect and defend the Constitution, which is fundamentally the job that he has as president of the United States.

MacCallum concluded, “Okay, I understand. Your thoughts on that, and I thank you very much for joining us. Thank you, Congressman Moulton. Good to have you here.”

Watch the clip above via Fox News.