‘Deem And Pass’ Latest Evidence Everyone In Congress Is A Hypocrite

video

by Glynnis MacNicol | 9:36 am, March 17th, 2010

» 38 comments

Remember the other week when the political phrase du jour was “reconciliation” and Rachel Maddow spent not a little amount of time illustrating how the Republicans who were in an uproar over the “nuclear option” were actually total hypocrites who had had no problem implementing the procedure when it suited there aims? Well, looks like the shoe is currently on the other foot (color us shocked).

Karen Tumulty at Swampland highlights some flip-flopping on the House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer’s part when it comes to applying the ‘deem and pass‘ (or ‘demon pass’ which is what tends to roll of the tongue). Here is Hoyer in the NYT today:

The House Democratic leader, Representative Steny H. Hoyer, also defended the maneuver on Tuesday. “It is consistent with the rules,” Mr. Hoyer said. “It is consistent with former practice.”

Here is Hoyer in 2003:

When the Republican leadership reported a self-executing rule providing for the adoption of the $82 billion plan over 10 years and an almost trillion-dollar plan over 20 years, accelerating the increased child tax credit for low-income people families, we didn’t even get an opportunity to vote on the bill itself except by reference in a self-executing rule. What kind of lack of confidence does that display? What kind of process in pursuit of effectiveness does that mean that we are adopting? What kind of demeaning of democracy is the objective of efficiency resulting in?

Perhaps he is now attempting to answer his own question? Meanwhile, Politco is reporting that using the ‘deem and pass’ method on such huge legislation “could raise constitutional issues sufficiently credible that the Supreme Court might get interested, as it has in the past.” Just writing that sentence down is exhausting. Anyone else feel like the closer we get to this the farther away is actually is? Video below of Hoyer talking ‘demon pass’ on today’s GMA.

Deem and pass, George Stephanpoulos, Health Care Reform, Karen Tumulty, Steny Hoyer, Swampland, The State of Politics

same2u

According to Norm Ornstein “In the last Congress that Republicans controlled, from 2005 to 2006, Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier used the self-executing rule more than 35 times,”

These Republican liars are a pestilence in our society.
writer

Having no agenda of her own, Rachel will be issuing a retraction shortly.
The Real Royal King

I’ll be a bit more moderate, Same2U and simply say the hypocrisy is rampant among both parties. To be sure, it seems worse with Republicans since they are the self-proclaimed possessors of all that is good and true in our Republic. Remember Jimmy Swaggart and Ted Haggert (that’s the first time I realized their surnames rhymed)? Their fall from grace was all the more pronounced because of their suffocating self-righteousness and sanctimony. The metaphor works for the Republicans.
ex politicalmedia hack

as an ex dem hack, this is clear to me an attempt to pass this bill without the votes. theyve NEVER had the votes and even when this was clear the incompetents now at 1600 tripled down and figured that somehow – magically – this would change.

sorry hopesters, this aint happening – and now dead panic from the WH is causing immense pressures to be brought from pa avenue to pelosi’s office to “fix” this insane mess somehow and since nancy helped give us these clowns when she worked overtime to deny hillary the nom, she will try ANYTHYING to save their sorry asses..

as with all things always, its alll about obama…and trying to save his sorry ass personal approval ratings…this hasnt changed since last summer (though his numbers sure as hell have!)
The Real Royal King

I doubt you were ever a Democrat.
same2u

A health care bill already passed both the House and the Senate. ANY measure they take to RECONCILE their differences is A-Okay with me.

Capiche there Hack?
ex politicalmedia hack

hey king – i take from your response that you were a Kos-sack before you spread your silliness to this media site.

ive worked in national politics in dc for over 20 years and i AM still a democrat – i’m just waiting for my Party to once again be what it was.

this battle isnt over health care reform – thats bogus – this IS the bill that big pharm and big insurance dreamed of and has paid very good money for . (lets not forget the obama sell out to pharma on the importation of drugs bill that dems have fought for for years and he killed when we finally could have had it for a 150 million dollar pro ad buy paid for by the pharm lobby.) as always, everythings always about whats best for the egoist in chief

my democratic party is a pro labor force working for working families instead of a star struck junior high cafeteria of emotions all built around the faux aura of a p/t law school instructor and p/t state legislator who turned his ‘look” and his ability to read a speech into instant celebrity, media worship and a very weird and loyal online personality cult that you seem to be a member of. Add that all up, throw in a dumptruck load of hubris and chi-town rezko-ish corruption and you get the stunningly incompetent administration which will be gone soon enough.

he is a one termer for sure and after he loses us both houses of congress reality will start to set in and the majority of democrats WHO DID NOT want him to be our nominee and voted AGAINST HIM will take back our party and we will win again in 2016 and life will go on as it should…
MichelleF

The Sec. of Tres, of MA (not a repub), which of course is the trail run for gov’t healthcare, said that he believes if implemended, the country will be bankrupt in 4 years. But what does he know, he’s only living it.
StewartIII

Hot Air: Deem and pass shows “lack of confidence,” “demeaning of democracy”
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/17/deem-and-pass-shows-lack-of-confidence-demeaning-of-democracy/
same2u

Stewie3,

Your link trolling “shows a lack” of independent thought. And why doesn’t your troll-butt speak to the hypocrisy that is addressed in this article ?
felixw

This is the biggest piece of legislation of recent history. To pass it without a direct vote is something I would expect from a despotic third world country.
The Real Royal King

To pass it without a direct vote is something I would expect from a despotic third world country.

—

Sort of like the W Tax Cuts which we now know ran the deficits to historical highs. Like that, you mean?
The Real Royal King

ex politicalmedia hack says:

I have never commented at Kos, and I seldom read it. Most of my reading is newpapers of record, Barrons, the Economist, Spiegel, the Guardian, Figaro, the Atlantic, the New Yorker, rather eclectic and leaning slightly to the right on balance.
same2u

Royal King,

You beat me to it. Gaxter, aka the “SignOnSanDiego” troll is a rank hypocrite who leaves his droppings everywhere.
ex politicalmedia hack

so the king is one of those proud “high info voters” that brag so much about their “knowledge” that theyve learned third hand and because of it actually think they know what the F is going on…

telling me that you understand politics because you read the mainline press is like saying you can hit a major league curve ball because you read sports illustrated, the sporting news and watch espn.

and pal, if you know so much you never would have supported obama over hillary in the first place.

in that, you followed your pals in the foolish media, both those of record and those of no account.

you sure did sound like a kos person though…maybe thats where you really should go, except then you couldnt have the thrill of insulting and feeling superior to republicans, so what would be the fun of that?
The Real Royal King

Hey, Dude, I don’t just FEEL superior to Republicans.
ex politicalmedia hack

poinnt. set. match.

you’re a Kossack.
Olby Sucks

eph, the faux royal king also claims to not be an olbermann fan which has been proven a lie. It loves olby and is definitaly a kossack licker.
cappi

Hello to all, I am new here and this is my first post. I would like to observe that from the very foundation of this nation, the primary debate, regardless of its “permutations”, has centered around how much power the federal government should have in order to conduct its legitimate business. Very august names from that group of people we refer to as the founding fathers have disagreed on this very issue. Universal or as it is called here “obamacare” is simply the latest “cause” or “crisis” around which the swirling jockeying for advantage in the exercise of political power is being played out.

I must admit that the demands of my character place me on the side that insists that the federal government has only very few enumerated powers in our constitution, despite supreme court rulings to the contrary.

Make no mistake about it. This furor is not about insurance reform, health care or any other haughty attempt to solve societies perceived ills. It is purely about the exercise of power by the federal government and those sitting in seats of power therein.

Very little about modern (since the turn of the last century) “republicans” and certainly much about “democrats” lead me to feel safe in my liberties and freedoms. I believe that all those exercising elected (or appointed) power have sworn to protect and defend our constitution. I don’t think anywhere it provides for the revision of the constitution except in the prescribed manner provided in the constitution.

So, for all the jolly back and forth here, the question comes down to this. Do you want the federal government to grow in power and control over ever more and more of the lives of the citizens of this country it is supposed to protect? Personally I don’t want the federal government to control very much of my life whatsoever. Nor do I wish that the federal government have the power to force me to support its actions to intruded into the lives of those people that DO want the government heavily involved in their lives. I believe that anyone has a right to exercise their beliefs up to the point where the exercise of those beliefs intrude on my access (right) to my life, liberty and property. So, if those falling on the “big government” side of things can figure out how to support the social programs that they wish to have WITHOUT intruding into MY life, liberty or property in order to achieve that end then I say more power to you.

None of this discussion is cause for useless calling of names and disparaging personal reference. Don’t get me wrong. I am absolutely opposed to the usurpation of my freedom and liberty using the power of a federal government and consider ANYONE wishing to do that to be my ENEMY.

Let’s just keep the discussion centered around what it is truly about. Power and who should be exercising that power. I think it is ME (and every individual citizen) that should possess the majority of the power, not the government or my enemies who wish to use the government as a means to their ends, whatever they may be. Obamacare therefore is about how to seize power for those that wish to loot the wealth created through the productivity of others for their own uses. That act, regardless of how you might try to dress it up is simply knavish thievery. I am not directing that appellation at anyone in particular, but if I in describing a certain suite of clothes use general terms, please don’t fault me if you claim the suite is a perfect fit.

And with that, I bid adieu to you.
ex politicalmedia hack

olby sux,

im a lifelong labor left dem and though i have had all out wars with repubs, i dont hate most of them and respect their differing point of view most of the time, but i downright despise kos and his cultists.

and olberman really does suck, i suggest you go read the daily howler and see from a smart dem prospective why somerby (and i) think that olberman and maddow both are very bad for democrats, which you may applaud.

faux king thinks im a repub pretending im a dem (which is what kossacks always say when a democrat dares to criticize obama or any “idea” they have picked up from kos or msnbc) but i am not.

hell, i was prez of the college dems at columbia back in the eighties – which obama never joined btw – so ive thought little of him for a long time.
MichelleF

Welcome aboard Cappi! You will no doubt be attacked for your views by some here, but fortunately, there are some who can debate like adults.
cappi

Thanks Michelle, I must admit I have rarely had “good” experiences posting on such boards. But, so far, so good here.

If I may add to my earlier post, the reason that I believe that most (all) political debates can be boiled down to power and how it is used is because in this universe on the physical sciences side of things, nothing but force and power are “respected”. And I believe this is true in the arena of the “political sciences” as well.

On the one hand, some wish that individuals had most of the power so they can go about their honest and legal endeavors without “help” from the government and in most cases can tell the government to totter off and mind its own business in most cases.

On the other hand there are those that have very strong belief that “life” isn’t fair and worse than that, some in life manipulate the “system” (whichever one you may choose to insert here) to their own benefit at the exclusion of “most of the rest of us”. This is an intolerable social injustice that MUST be corrected in men through “education” if possible and if not through the exercise of one degree of force or another.

And there you have it. The struggle of two philosophical positions over the gaining and keeping of power. The only question is whether it shall be “INDIVIDUAL” or “COLLECTIVE”.

For a very long time in this country, the “INDIVIDUAL” sort of power seemed to work quite nicely and produced a society that raised the standard of living for every single member of the society and became the envy of the world.

Unfortunately, the “COLLECTIVIST” have made great inroads since the turn of the last century (1900) to the present in bringing about the transfer of power from the individual to the collective, or for the sake of easy conversation, the federal government.

Read history. In every case where the power of the “collective” was centered in a few (or even one), the results for the “individual” were very negative indeed. And please, don’t bring up examples of “collective” successes to the contrary. It is usually Sweden or some such country. Contrary examples that actually prove the point. And besides, these “examples” of the wonders of collectivism are doing so hot anymore as they seem to be running out of people to take from in order to give to everyone else.

As for me, give me liberty! Give me individual freedom and responsibility! My plea to the government is to please stop trying to “help” me so much and to just leave me alone!

Obamacare is merely the means of collectivist to achieve the end of being in control of ever more and more power with which they can then use to intrude into my personal life.

And I cannot think of a single argument that anyone can make to justify the lessening of personal freedom and liberty for the benefit of some collective group in order to achieve “social justice”.

The two are “oil and water” and can never be “blended”. One or the other must surely prevail. I hope with all that is in me that the collectivist lose. And lose badly.

Sorry about the length…I’ll try to be more brief from now on. No guarantees though!
same2u

“Do you want the federal government to grow in power and control over ever more and more of the lives of the citizens of this country”

Absolutely, if it will result in the greater good, and there ain’t a thing you can say that will convince me that the heath care bill goes contrary to that objective.

P.S.
I don’t doubt for a minute that conservative fundamentalists in this country would gladly impose their values on me if they could via the government.
MichelleF

A word of advice, Cappi. Don’t try to convince some people with rational arguments, because those won’t listen no matter how much sense it makes. I had to learn that to hang on to what sanity I have left!
same2u

P.S.
I am enjoyed the following snippet:

“President Barack Obama’s much-challenged health care overhaul gained traction Wednesday as a liberal lawmaker became the first to switch his opposition and Catholic nuns declared their support in an unusual public break with the bishops”
MichelleF

S2U,
I see that the libs brushed over my first comment so I”m going to try again to get your take on it.

MichelleF says:
March 17, 2010 at 11:13 am
The Sec. of Tres, of MA (not a repub), which of course is the trail run for gov’t healthcare, said that he believes if implemended, the country will be bankrupt in 4 years. But what does he know, he’s only living it.
valkyrie101

No felix, what you expect in a despotic third world country is a situation where an entire party, simply because they want to sink the Presidency of a member of the opposing party, vote, everytime, en mass, against that President’s policies, even though that President was elected by a solid majority, and even though his party also retained and padded its majority position in the Congress, and in opposition to that Presidents main campaign platform (health care reform). How childish is it? “We lost, badly, now lets sink the boat so that we can blame the President for failing and win back the office”.
same2u

Michelle, my belle.
These are words that go together well,
My Michelle.
MichelleF

S2U, now you are really on my bad side, i HATE that song! But I digress, did you have a comment on the subject at hand or just trying to avoid it altogether?
MichelleF

valkyrie101, I humbly submit that we are opposing Obamacare just to thumb our noses at BO, we think it’s really bad for the country. And although you do have a solid majority, the American people are solidly against it. And besides, R’s can’t stop them, all they need is the D’s on board, and they don’t have that. So this whole argument of R’s standing in the way doesn’t hold water.
MichelleF

OK, i just said we are opposing it to stick it to BO, but i meant we weren’t.
PureFreedom

same2u,
Are you insane? you want a nanny state to tell you what to do in your life? what to eat, where you can and cant go, How many children you can have and if you should die or not because of your age.

I cant believe there are people like you out there. But then again great minds like Lindsay Lohan, Rosie O’donnell and Ben Affleck think just like you.
MichelleF

Yes PureFreedom, they are out there. The good news is that the most recents polls show about 40% of amercan’s consider themselves conservatives, about the same independent and bringing up the rear with 20%, S2U and her pals.
writer

Michelle, next time you’re conversing with the King, ask him why it’s okay to stereotype certain groups. Then sit back and enjoy the show. It’s like at an old time carnival, where you put a coin in a slot, a kernel of corn drops into a box, and a chicken comes out and dances furiously till the corn falls out. It’s really amusing.
MichelleF

Sorry Writer, I can’t do it. We have made peace and I’d like to keep it that way. I do hear you though!
writer

You have the patience of Job.
autobahn

Give it up, writer. I’ve seen enough posts now to know that TRRK is going to stereotype anyone disagreeing with him, yet deny that he’s biased. Time to face the facts, bud.
pyrope

The Republicans were wrong for using the nuclear option and the Democraps are wrong. Hell, even ol’ “shakey” Byrd admonishes his own party and for that to happen takes some real doing. As for -0bamacare being a good thing for this country, I would cheerfully invite anyone who claims it is to go to any other country that has socialized medicine and try it out. Sadly, there are some who will think it will be different here. They are wrong. (And how do you know Pyrope?) Glad you asked; I came from a country that had socialized medicine. It stunk and that’s one of the many reasons I emigrated to the US.