The problem with this is that there were around 20 different ACORN videos from different cities and she’s only focusing on one. The Baltimore video, IIRC, was particuarly egregious.

But yes the Fox News coverage of this story has been awful.

Mediaite Matters strikes again.

Glynnis, you are so predictable. If you had done any independent research whatsoever, you’d know that Maddow was the one who significantly misstated the facts. I’ll methodically demonstrate that here point by point.

The first point that Maddow makes is that O’Keefe didn’t dress as a pimp when he went from office to office. That’s true, but as the New York Times has written it is irrelevant because regardless of how he was dressed, O’Keffe presented himself as a pimp who was trying to establish a brothel with underage girls:

_____

Acorn’s supporters appear to hope that the whole story will fall apart over the issue of what O’Keefe wore: if that was wrong, everything else must be wrong. The record does not support them. If O’Keefe did not dress as a pimp, he clearly presented himself as one: a fellow trying to set up a woman — sometimes along with under-age girls — in a house where they would work as prostitutes. In Washington, he said the prostitution was to finance his future in politics. A worker for Acorn Housing, an allied group, warned him to stay away from the brothel lest someone “get wind that you got a house and that your girlfriend is over there running a house of women of the night. You will not have a career.”
_____

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21pubed.html

The New York Times is right. The record “DOES NOT SUPPORT” the claim that the whole scandal falls apart because of what O’Keefe was wearing. What counts is what he said and what he asked ACORN to do, not what he was wearing. (I note, however, that O’Keefe clearly should have corrected the record when it was incorrectly reported that he wore he pimp outfit into the offices. But his failure to set the record straight does not excuse ACORN’s malfeasance.)

The second point that Maddow makes is that one of the ACORN workers called the police (she omits that it was two days after the fact). What Maddow leaves out is that O’Keffe and Giles visited SEVEN different Acorn offices and only TWO of them called the police (both after the fact). (Again, see the NYT link above for the full story on that point.) Do the two offices that did the right thing exculpate the five offices that were willing to help with the establishment of a brothel for underage sex slaves imported from another country? Is “I was willing to do the right thing 28% of the time” a new defense to indefensible behavior?

Of course, Maddow never discloses to her audience that the police were called only 2 out of 7 times. Instead, she implies that calling the police was the norm, when in fact it was the exception.

The third point that Maddow makes is that at the Los Angeles office, O’Keefe and Giles never said that they were trying to set up a brothel for underaged girls and instead were just trying to get housing. This is a bold-faced lie. Maddow is completely misrepresenting the facts. The following is an excerpt from the tapes taken at the Los Angeles office (the COMPLETE audio tapes and written transcripts thereof are available at Big Government and are linked to in the New York Times story I cited above):

_____

James: Could we speak to you just a little more? LaVelle (Acorn): Sure. James: Help tell you about our situation? We’d love to speak with them. LaVelle (Acorn): Okay. James: But, LaVelle (Acorn): Okay. James: we just we just trust ACORN because LaVelle (Acorn): No problem. James: someone, someone referred me and said that you guys are really helpful LaVelle (Acorn): Right. James: in, in the housing situation. So, that’s why we’re more comfortable speaking with someone. I mean LaVelle (Acorn): Mmm hmm. James: But I don’t know if you could tell her some of the other things too? I don’t know if
13
Los Angeles
this is something that they would Hannah (Eden): I, yeah, I’m not sure okay, um, there’s also 12 girls LaVelle (Acorn): Okay. Hannah (Eden): that have recently come to Los Angeles LaVelle (Acorn): Okay. Hannah (Eden): from El Salvador. LaVelle (Acorn): Mmm hmm. Hannah (Eden): Um, that the pimp here LaVelle (Acorn): Okay. Hannah (Eden): wants control of. LaVelle (Acorn): Okay. Hannah (Eden): And there’s a, a thing going on for control of these girls. They’re between the ages of 12 and 15. LaVelle (Acorn): Mmm hmm. Okay. Hannah (Eden): And part of the reason why I want housing LaVelle (Acorn): Mmm hmm Hannah (Eden): is so that I can take the girls. LaVelle (Acorn): Help them. Hannah (Eden): Help them. Um, yeah. And help take them into the house. I know I’m, I’m, I’m not you know old enough to be their mother, obviously, but somehow shield them and also let them be able to work here. I mean they’re, they’re in the line they’re, they’re prostitutes. LaVelle (Acorn): In the line of fire. Hannah (Eden): They’re, they’re, they’re prostitutes. LaVelle (Acorn): Okay. Hannah (Eden): They’re underage in America, and I at least if they’re gonna work here and work with me
14
Los Angeles
LaVelle (Acorn): Right. Hannah (Eden): they won’t be subjected to that LaVelle (Acorn): To that Hannah (Eden): guy. LaVelle (Acorn): Yeah. Yeah. Hannah (Eden): So, that’s why I need the house.

_____

Glynnis, this is NOT an example of Maddow being the “preeminent mainstream media watchdog.” This is an example of Maddow lying to her viewers. If you want an example of “laziness and gullibility,” you should look in the mirror.

Again, if anyone wants a fair and balanced account of the ACORN scandal, I recommend the New York Times piece I linked to above. Here is the NYT’s official conclusion:

_____

The videos were heavily edited. The sequence of some conversations was changed. Some workers seemed concerned for Giles, one advising her to get legal help. In two cities, Acorn workers called the police. BUT THE MOST DAMNING WORDS MATCH THE TRANSCRIPTS AND THE AUDIO, AND DO NOT SEEM OUT OF CONTEXT. HARSHBARGER’S REPORT TO ACORN FOUND “NO PATTERN OF ILLEGAL CONDUCT” BY ITS EMPLOYEES. BUT, HE TOLD ME: “THEY SAID WHAT THEY SAID. THERE’S NO WAY TO MAKE THIS LOOK GOOD.”
_____

That’s right. Even the New York Times and the investigator hired by ACORN admit that “they said what they said” and “there’s no way to make this look good.” But that’s exactly what Maddow and Mediaite Matters are trying to do. They both fail in their attempts because they are not being honest about the facts.

Rachel, you can try all ya want but it doesn’t change the fact that ACORM employess did in fact advise them how to lie on tax returns to hid this illegal activity.

One additional point. If you want to do some real reporting on this, the real story is that the California Attorney General who “cleared” ACORN is Jerry Brown, who is running for Governor. As far back as last November (when Brown was supposedly “investigating” the ACORN scandal), one of Brown’s surrogates told a Democratic audience that Brown is a “political animal” and that “the fault WILL be found with the people that did the video–not ACORN.” The audio is here:

http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2009/11/10/exclusive-audio-from-acorn-claims-jerry-brown-will-whitewash-investigation/

In other words, there was never really was any investigation by Jerry Brown. He was just trying to satisfy the Rachel Maddows of the world in order to advance his own campaign.

What’s most sad about this whole thing is that Mediaite has become SO predictably and unflaggingly biased in its coverage that I can now: (1) predict what stories they will run; (2) know exactly what spin they’re going to put on those stories; and (3) write my rebuttals before they even publish their stories. That’s exactly what I did here although, in all candor, I was wrong on one important point: I thought the story would be written by Drew, not Glynnis.

Good work Finch. I also have a couple of things to add. Maddow keeps saying the ” unedited tapes ” as if they have just become available. But Breitbart has had them up at his site Big Government for weeks, if not months.

Maddow played part of the tape of Juan Carlos Vera saying he could smuggle girls in from Tijuana. Maddow says this is the edited version. She is very clever. She says ” edited ” and plays a clip of Hannity talking about this ” edited ” tape. What she does not say, is that it’s on the unedited tapes as well. She then says, what Fox does not show, is the rest of the tape. She tries to make the case that Vera is pressing for more info. She says he calls the police immediately after they leave.

Vera’s cousin is a policeman. That’s who he said he called. Not the police.
San Diego News
After the pair left the building, Vera said he called the National City Police Department.

National City police confirmed that Vera contacted them, but said there was not enough information about the couple to file a formal report.
Could his cousin be covering for him ? It’s possible.
CBS News
Police say he contacted law enforcement two days later. The detective consulted another police official who served on a federal human smuggling task force, who said he needed more details.

The ACORN employee responded several days later and explained that the information he received was not true and he had been duped.
Was it immediately or two days later ?
In a press conference Thursday at ACORN’s National City headquarters, Vera said statements he made in the video were taken out of context.

The now-former ACORN worker said he was merely trying to help the pair because he thought they were in danger.
Well if he claimed he was ” trying to help ” that would mean he was not pressing for more info because he wanted to report them, as Maddow seemed to indicate. And one more thing.
ACORN’s David Lagstein issued the following statement regarding Vera: Lagstein said in his earlier evaluation, he had only found a short, 52-second video, and not a longer seven-minute video. After consulting with supervisors and state ACORN officials, he decided Vera had contradicted his earlier statements and his conduct was “unacceptable.”

The recording showed Vera appearing to suggest he could help get people across the border and asking the woman posing as a prostitute how much her services cost.
Maddow also played a very short clip of Lavelle Stewart. This one is laughable. She plays the first minute of a two – part video that goes on for 15 minutes. Stewart is made aware of the underage girls and says she does not judge people. She ends up saying she can help and will ” have something for them “.

It blows my mind the length to which you lefties will go to defend a sleazy organization like ACORN. I realize you need them to keep committing fraud so you can win elections, but at some point you’re going to have to cut your losses and find a new front group.

Bravo, sponge bob! Thanks for those additional details.

AnonymousFinch AnonymousFinch says:
April 7, 2010 at 9:58 am

What’s most sad about this whole thing is that Mediaite has become SO predictably and unflaggingly biased in its coverage that I can now: (1) predict what stories they will run; (2) know exactly what spin they’re going to put on those stories; and (3) write my rebuttals before they even publish their stories. That’s exactly what I did here although, in all candor, I was wrong on one important point: I thought the story would be written by Drew, not Glynnis.

—

What’s most sad about your response is that you have become SO predictably and unflaggingly biased in your responses that we can all: (1) predict what comments to which you will object as soon as they are published; (2) know exactly what spin you’re going to put on those comments and in your responses; and (3) allow us to write rebuttals to your responses before you even post the responses. That’s exactly what I did here although, in all candor, I was wrong on one important point: I did not think you’d use all upper case in “SO”.

AnonymousFinch. sweet pwnage

Chris Jones says:
April 7, 2010 at 10:00 am

It blows my mind the length to which you lefties will go to defend a sleazy organization like ACORN. I realize you need them to keep committing fraud so you can win elections, but at some point you’re going to have to cut your losses and find a new front group.

—

That’s the plan. As soon as we get enough Justices on the Supreme Court that they can appoint the President, like W was appointed, we are going to rid ourselves of ACORN.

RRK: You’re a failed liberal, but I love you, brother. I have a feeling that in real life we’d really hit it off.

I haven’t any doubt.

Nobody (including Rachel Maddow) is arguing that ACORN didn’t have problems, though we probably disagree on the significance thereof, and the proportionate amount of news coverage they deserve.

But FOX News did not tell its viewers that the tapes were heavily edited. FOX did not tell its viewers that O’Keefe wasn’t dressed in that getup at ACORN offices (though he did wear the outfit to appear on FOX!). How is that not journalistic malpractice? Any halfway decent journalist should have taken a skeptical attitude toward the story and investigated what editing was done and whose interests it served, and informed their viewers about it when telling the story. What FOX did was run the story exactly as O’Keefe/Giles preferred to tell it. How is that fair and balanced? (Shep is a decent journalist and I noticed he didn’t cover this story at all aside from reporting briefly on ACORN losing funding.)

Ummm….it’s amazing how you all kinda missed the point.

Maddow doesn’t defend ACORN at all in the segment. In fact, she explicitly says that ACORN did have a history of problems.

The Breitbart stunt/slime job was demonstrated in a court of law to be just that and the flaming right wing morons here just repeat (endlessly) his same conspiracy theories.

O’Keefe is a criminal, not a journalist. Period.

da-wdc:

You’re half right. Fox never should have misreported that he wore the pimp outfit. He also never should have appeared on the air wearing that outfit. O’Keefe is a punk, and Fox should have held itself and him to a higher standard. (That said, again, what he was wearing does not undermine the gravamen of the story).

As for the rest, Fox did disclose that the tapes were edited. Moreover, they also made it clear that the complete audio tapes, and transcripts thereof, were available at Breitbart’s site.

By the way (virtually EVERY video and audio clip we ever see on cable news is edited. The only organization that runs unedited tape of anything is C-SPAN. So the issue is not whether the tapes were edited, but rather whether they were edited fairly. The New York Times admits that they were.

HanzoSword:

Ummm . . . sorry, but there was no such determination by any Court of law. Maddow is reporting on the California Attorney General’s unilateral decision. That AG is Jerry Brown, a Democrat running for Governor who decided what the outcome of his investigation was going to be before her ever conducted it (as I set forth in my post above).

I don’t even read Glynnis MacNicol’s little blog here. already know what the spin is, the comments are far more entertaining and informative.

I see the right wing tinfoiled hat brigade is out in full force today. Fat Boy Breitbart has taught you sheeple well.

Finch, I don’t read the rantings of conspiracy theorists, so I don’t read your incredibly long and fact challenged rants.

Maddow demonstrated good investigative journalism. Notice that she did not rely exclusively on what Jerry Brown has said.

O’Keefe has pled guilty in a court of law. He’s a criminal not only in a journalistic sense, but a legal sense. No one will ever trust him again.

What a farce! Fox News was the only place to cover the Acorn story, while Maddow and her friends covered it up. These attacks on O’Keefe are part of a common approach of attacking the whistleblower when a scandal has been uncovered. Then again, attacking the messenger while refusing to report on the message seems to company policy at MSNBC these days.

HanzoSword:

I’m really impressed. As a mere mortal, I usually have to read something before I can judge that it is “conspiratorial” or “fact challenged.” You, apparently, are not so limited. Congratulations. I wish I was as omniscient as you and the Almighty.

If you watch the Madow clip, for example, the Hispanic Acorn worker that seemed to be going along with a prostitute smuggling proposal, that was shown with much finger wagging by FOX. Shown in fact, dozens of times. But the AG of California reported that the Hispanic worker immediately reported the incident to the police, and he seeming to go along with it all was so he could gather specific information to pass on to the police. So will Shawn Hannity and Glenn Beck, who were particularly obsessed with killing Acorn, offer an apology to that Hispanic worker? And the Madow clip shows another example involving an African American girl who was a clear victim of intentional selective editing by O’Keife. Fox went crazy over that stuff. And Madow also shows O’Keife on FOX wearing the pimp outfits and nodding in agreement when the FOX commentator said that he was wearing what he wore during the Acorn visits, which was a lie which O’Keife certainly knew.

Now the question is: What did FOX know when this intentional lying attack was being aired?

Yes, some of these videos were shown on other networks, but O’Keife and Breitbart went to FOX and it was their scoop, their feature, and futher to their previous statements, in particular, Beck and O’Reilly’s, that Acorn was a despicable organization which they intended to kill. So FOX had motive to lie, or to participate in a conspiracy with O’Keife and Breitbart to get to the “end” they sought via unsavory “means”.

ACORN is a quality orginazation…LOL Yeah right…Who are you kidding. FOX News tells it like it is.Why do you think FOX News beats all the other cable news channels ratings combined?

No surprise that Maddow would weigh in on this matter. Certainly when it comes to editing video to show quotes out of context, she is one of the all time experts.

Well felix and cowboy, I guess you have checked in on your version of what is fair. Was Acorn a perfect organization? No. But that does not give a megabillion dollar news corporation the right to compromise journalistic standards, nee, to engage in a journalistic scam, in order to destroy an organization they did not like. And felix, I would be very pleased to see those selective edited news reports from Madow that you refer to. I will do the same as for FOX. For my exhibit A, I give you FOX’s coverage of the Acorn videos, which they literally showed hundreds of times, and which destroyed the reputation of at least two completely innocent Acorn employees who, unlike their attackers, Beck, Hannity, and O’Reilly – who each earn close to 100K per day, were just low paid citizens trying their best to help their fellow man survive another day.

It would be nice if Glynnis or any other left-wing media kook-aid drinker would write about Fox exposing the bogus coverage by the MSM of the tea-party or the bogus coverage relating to the “hateful” rhetoric that is no where near as hateful as what has been exposed regarding the left-wing media’s and left-wing politicians attitudes and words towards Pres. Bush. But, that would require honest reporting by a corrupt American media.

RM is mad because O’keefe didn’t wear his pimp coat to the filming. Great, RM!

Valkyrie:

Read my post above. Maddow is the one lying here. I’ll say it again, even the New York Tiimes and the investigator hired by ACORN to investigate this incident admit that the ACORN employees “said what they said” and “there’s no way to make this look good.” Why do want to try to make this look good when they admit that it can’t be done?

By the way, if those poor, helpless employees were unfairly maligned by Fox News, then why did ACORN fire them? Why isn’t ACORN hiring them back (with back pay)?

And if Fox News lied as Maddow said, how come ACORN isn’t suing them for defamation? ACORN initially sued O’Keefe, but they never served the complaint and it has since been dismissed (though they could refile any time if they want to). They never sued Fox. If Maddow is accurate in what she reports here, they could sue Fox and would win millions.

” . . . which destroyed the reputation of at least two completely innocent Acorn employees who, unlike their attackers, Beck, Hannity, and O’Reilly – who each earn close to 100K per day, were just low paid citizens trying their best to help their fellow man survive another day.”

Val, you forgot to include “by setting up a brothel for underaged sex slaves” at the end of that sentence.

If Maddow has nailed this and has exposed the lying and/or slandering behind all these videos then why were ACORN employees systematically fired following each of their revelations? If there was not wrong doing and the employees acted properly then they were innocent and the orginization would not have removed them.

lonestar77 says:
April 7, 2010 at 1:06 pm

It would be nice if Glynnis or any other left-wing media kook-aid drinker would write about Fox exposing the bogus coverage by the MSM of the tea-party or the bogus coverage relating to the “hateful” rhetoric that is no where near as hateful as what has been exposed regarding the left-wing media’s and left-wing politicians attitudes and words towards Pres. Bush. But, that would require honest reporting by a corrupt American media.

—

Well, we should have an opportunity soon. It appears that the man who threatened Senator Murray attended a Tea Party just a couple of days before he made the threats.

valkyrie101 says: “journalistic standards” LOL – FOX is the only channel wiling to show any standards at all. FOX News is truly “Fair and Balanced”. Every other so called journalists has insulted the “Tea Party”. Who are nothing more than concerned Americans standing up for what they believe. And the media attacks and insults them. They Tea Party is made up of Democrats, Independants and Republicans. Where is that reported? Where are your journalistic standards? Fox is the only news channel who still has my respect.
Rachel Maddow is a hypocrite.

MartiniShark MartiniShark says:
April 7, 2010 at 1:18 pm

If Maddow has nailed this and has exposed the lying and/or slandering behind all these videos then why were ACORN employees systematically fired following each of their revelations? If there was not wrong doing and the employees acted properly then they were innocent and the orginization would not have removed them.

—

Perhaps, because the standards of proof are different.

They Tea Party is made up of Democrats, Independants and Republicans. Where is that reported?

—

Actually, almost everyplace. We now now that less than 8% of the Tea Partiers are Democrats and the remainder are Republicans or “Independents” who lean Republican. You should get out more.

Funny how NONE of the ACORN reports made it into Madow’s “reports”. I also like how Madow’s logic can be used directly against her argument thought she doesn’t recognize.

I don’t think Madow likes little girls or cares to protect them.

“Independents who lean Republican” – That is opinion. Back that up!!!

Independents make up the majority of the Tea Party. The whole point is that the Independents are sick of both Repubs and Dems. I know because I am who of those Independents who despises both parties.

Excuse me finch, but there is no way you watched the entire Maddow segment because she was very specific and documented well the O’Keefe/FOX scam. She was only dealing with those tapes relating to California, and specifically, two cases. One that was showed on FOX ad nauseum involving an Hispanic man that was being asked by O’Keefe to facilitate the importation of underage girls for prostitution. In that video, the man asked many specific pointed questions seeking to elicit details of what O’Keefe had in mind. And when the interview was over, he called the police. Fox showed that clip repeatedly, condemning Acorn over and over, but FOX never asked Acorn its side of the story, but rather, they just accepted everything O’Keefe said, even the lie about the pimp suit. In fact, the Hispanic Acorn worker tried to get the details out of O’Keefe to make it easier for the police to arrest him.

In the second clip O’Keefe selectively edited the tape to make it look like the African American Acorn worker was facilitating hiding money obtained through prostitution, when in fact, seeing the unedited tape, it was clear that she was responding to what O’Keife said was difficulty in getting a loan because his girl friend was a prostitute. The Acorn worker just encouraged the girl to keep trying.

And those were just the California tapes. Already, in I believe Baltimore, the cops checked out those unedited videos and determined that the Acorn workers committed no crimes.

So you are simply defending some nasty stuff, without shame. Shame on you, my righteous friend.

LOL!

You can believe your own eyes & ears; or you can believe an msnbc Obama Lapdog!

I’ve always found msnbc to be impartial, haven’t you!?!?

LOL – LOL – LOL – LOL – LOL

Valkyrie:

I watched the entire Maddow segment and explained my objections in detail above. You haven’t responded to any of my objections. For example, does the fact that 2 offices called the police exonerate the five offices tat did not? Why didn’t Maddow show the portion of the Los Angeles tape (whcih I quoted at length above) in which O’Keefe and Giles explained that they were going to set up a brothel for teenaged girls? You obviously haven’t read and/or listened to any of the full tapes. If you had, you would know that Maddow is lying.

But obivously you’re not going to examine any of those facts, so please explain to me why, if the none of the ACORN workers did anything wrong, ACORN fired them? You’re specifically concerned about Juan Carlos Vera, the gentlemen in the San Diego video. Well, here’s the statement that ACORN released when they FIRED him for misconduct:

______

ACORN’s David Lagstein issued the following statement regarding Vera:

After release of the second San Diego video by the unscrupulous partisan videographers, we have reevaluated our assessment of the incident that occurred last month. No paperwork was filed, but the video reflects unacceptable conduct that contradicts the earlier statements of ACORN Organizer Juan Carlos Vera. He has been terminated. San Diego ACORN and ACORN offices around the country are continuing to halt our service programs pending the results of the evaluation of the independent Advisory Council and we are continuing to fight on our campaigns: stopping foreclosures, affordable, accessible health care, and a strong education for all children.

______

If he simply a hero who called the police, why did ACORN fire him. You’re worried about Fox defaming him and ruining him reputation, but here ACORN is calling him a liar. According to ACORN, “the video reflects unacceptable conduct that contradicts the earlier statements of ACORN Organizer Juan Carlos Vera.” Really? What unacceptable conduct is that? If all he did was call the police, how could that be unacceptable? And it “contracts [his] earlier statement”? What “earlier statements” are those? What’s the contradiction? If Rachel Maddow has now proven all that untrue, then why hasn’t ACORN retracted the press release quoted above so that Mr. Vera can get his reputation back?

If Fox defamed Mr. Vera, he can sue them for defamation. He is, after all, a purely private figure. It would be an open an shut case. Let’s take some depositions, get everybody under oath, discover all the relevant internal ACORN documents, and put it before a jury. If the truth is on their side, what do ACORN and Mr. vera have to lose?

AmericanCowboy says:
April 7, 2010 at 1:41 pm

“Independents who lean Republican” – That is opinion. Back that up!!!

Independents make up the majority of the Tea Party. The whole point is that the Independents are sick of both Repubs and Dems. I know because I am who of those Independents who despises both parties.

—

“It appears that a healthy majority of those independents who are supporters of the Tea Party movement lean toward the Republican Party. When we do the math, we end up with 83% of supporters who are Republican or lean Republican, 4% who are pure independent (don’t lean to either party) and 13% who are Democratic or lean Democratic.”

from: http://pollingmatters.gallup.com/2010/04/more-on-tea-party-movement.html

Don’t ever ask me to do your homework, again. I can’t abide laziness and slovenliness.

Can you believe valkyrie101 is actually siding with ACORN and Rachel Madcow. LOL. Silly Obama voters…some still just can’t admit they were duped by the Commie. They battle is over…Obama has exposed himself as the Marxist he is. How long does the effect of that Obama kool-aid last? I bet it last a long time on the smaller minds of laboratory rats and Rachel Madcow. Most Obama voters I know have already apologized and admitted they were foolish. Maybe those were just hopeful and naive Obama voters and not one of the truly stupid Obama voters.

Polls are funny things:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/90541-survey-four-in-10-tea-party-members-dem-or-indie

Survey: Four in 10 Tea Party members are Democrats or independents

The national breakdown of the Tea Party composition is 57 percent Republican, 28 percent Independent and 13 percent Democratic, according to three national polls by the Winston Group, a Republican-leaning firm that conducted the surveys on behalf of an education advocacy group. Two-thirds of the group call themselves conservative, 26 are moderate and 8 percent say they are liberal.

The Winston Group conducted three national telephone surveys of 1,000 registered voters between December and February. Of those polled, 17 percent – more than 500 people — said they were “part of the Tea Party movement.”

Well finch, since we are dealing with a report made by Maddow, the one at the top, I suppose you can talk about things that were not addressed by that report if you want, but that does not address the truthfulness of what Maddow said, now does it?

I am not saying that Acorn has been without fault in all this, but at least as far as California goes, according to the AG, and born out by what Maddow showed, you will have to agree that what O’Keefe/Fox did was somewhat of a hatchet-job. Right? Surely you do not approve of that sort of stuff. Correct? And don’t you think that FOX owes its audience and Acorn an apology?

“Don’t ever ask me to do your homework” 1st off I would not ask a Obama supporter to do homework for me unless they admitted that they knowingly voted for a Communist. Then it would appear that they knew what they were taking about.

Second, had you said the Independents lean conservative I would give you that, but Republican I disargee with. It is all in the wording of these things. The Republicans Party has left their conservative values behind and that is the reason for the Tea Party. I am an Ex-Republican for that reason and that was my meaning.

“Rachel Maddow may well on her way to establishing herself as the preeminent mainstream media watchdog after last night.” Errrrr Ahhhh Seriously …..really ?

Cowboy, you found an excellent home with the tea party.

And you valkyrie101 make an excellent kool-aid drinker. BTW how is that hope/change thing working out for you? Do you have a Government job yet? Oh and just wait till you can’t get a doctor appoinment for 9 months and the Commiecare overseerers decide if you are worthy of a surgery or if they will save money by keeping you on pain killers instead of that surgery you need.

Several points:

1) The only unedited VIDEOtapes that have been released have been those from California. Insisting that Maddow focus on videotapes that have not been released is not a valid argument. Maddow is specifically comparing the *edited* videotapes to the *unedited* ones, and the insistence that the ‘audio’ or ‘transcripts’ are fully available misses the point–huge amounts of information is conveyed visually, and it’s the false notion that O’Keefe was wearing a pimp costume, more than anything else, that resulted in Acorn being engulfed in scandal. And why *hasn’t* Breitbart released the unedited VIDEOtapes, for crying out loud? His refusal to release them strongly suggests he’s trying to hide something. (spongebob, Breitbart has *not* had the unedited videotapes up at his site for months. He is still refusing to release them. He’s put up what he claims are the unedited audiotapes; without the video, we have no way of knowing if that’s true or not.)

2) The claim that it doesn’t matter what O’Keefe is wearing is absurd, given that that’s what got so much attention. If it didn’t matter what O’Keefe was wearing, why did he *pretend* to dress as a pimp in the offices? Why did he selectively edit the tapes to make it *appear* that he was wearing the pimp costume when he wasn’t? Since we know he now selectively edited tapes to falsely convey that information, how can we trust anything on the tapes at all? It severely damages O’Keefe’s credibility.

3) Spongebob:
Vera’s cousin is a policeman. That’s who he said he called. Not the police.
Okay, this is where I start to think you might be losing it. He calls his cousin, who is a policeman. This is, for some reason, very different from calling the police. I’m not sure why. I don’t think many people would find “calling a person who is a policeman” different from “calling the police.”
“National City police confirmed that Vera contacted them,
but said there was not enough information about the couple to file a formal report.
Could his cousin be covering for him ? It’s possible.”
Notice that this statement contradicts your last one, that he didn’t call the police. “Could his cousin be covering for him?” Extraordinary claims deserve extraordinary evidence. You’re now asserting that a policeman is engaged in a coverup of a crime and is breaking the law. I’m going to go ahead and caution you that since the policeman in question is not a public figure, you could be verging on libel territory.

4) The possibility that no one’s mentioning is that the Acorn employees recognized O’Keefe for what he was–a seriously troubled prankster. When encountering someone like that, or Borat, a natural human tendency is to smile, nod, and hope they go away soon.

5) O’Keefe was arrested breaking into U.S. Senator Mary Landrieu’s office, inexplicably dressed as a phone company employee, and attempting to do something with the phone lines. While the evidence strongly suggests he was attempting to tap the phone lines–and he was *certainly* guilty of entering under false pretenses, One of his criminal partners had ties to a local D.A., so they got their sentences reduced by agreeing to plead guilty, but still. This is the man we’re supposed to believe. A guy who lies and enters a Senator’s office under false pretenses to tap her phone lines. This is the guy you’re trying to defend as honest and upright.

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2010/03/james_okeefe_jo.php

Glynnis, are you Rachel Maddow’s partner?

Your headlines/stories have not even a pretense of objectivity.
When I saw this headline in my email, I knew it was yours before opening it.
That’s not a compliment!

Gregm:

I’m tired of arguing with people who are willfully ignorant, but I can’t resist pointing out one of the many erroneous statements in what you wrote. A “local D.A.” has no jurisdiction over an attempt to break in to a U.S. Senator’s office. O’Keefe was arrested by the FBI for allegedly violating FEDERAL law. The case was within the jurisdiction of the United States Attorney’s office. U.S. Attorney’s don’t do favors for people with “ties” to them. While that may happen in some local jurisdictions, when you’re in federal court there’s a special name for that: it’s called “obstruction of justice.” So, if you have any information that U.S. Attorney (who, by the way, is appointed by Obama and serves at pleasure of the President) obstructed justice and let O’Keefe off easy, I suggest you contact the FBI.

I remain shocked, utterly shocked, that liberals are willing to sacrifice their credibility and do intellectual gymnastics in order to defend ACORN and Rachel Maddow. FREE YOUR MINDS! By claiming that ACORN is the victim here, you’re only undermining your own claim of being a fair arbiter acting in good faith.

5) O’Keefe was arrested breaking into U.S. Senator Mary Landrieu’s office, inexplicably dressed as a phone company employee, and attempting to do something with the phone lines. ”

Totally. 100% false!

gregm says:
April 7, 201
” Vera’s cousin is a policeman. That’s who he said he called. Not the police.
Okay, this is where I start to think you might be losing it. He calls his cousin, who is a policeman. This is, for some reason, very different from calling the police. I’m not sure why. I don’t think many people would find “calling a person who is a policeman” different from “calling the police.”

Simple. Let me help you out. You have a cousin who is a policeman. You call him at home for advice. Maybe even at work. Does not matter. He was calling his cousin not the police. He says let me look into it. He finds nothing. When a problem arises the cousin can claim anything he wants to protect him.
” You’re now asserting that a policeman is engaged in a coverup of a crime and is breaking the law. ”
I got pulled over by a drunk undercover cop once. He drew his gun on me. Why ? Because he was speeding like a madman and I was in front of him.I pulled into a gas station and told the attendent to call the cops. They apologized and said he was under stress. Yet, I was taken in and nicely told that the cop would not be there on my court date. I got the message that if I did not cooperate it could get ugly for me. I also had a cousin shot in the leg by a drunk cop. The cop would have killed him if not for witnesses who heard the first shot. His crime. Ironic, in that it was the same thing that happened to me. Only the cop was driving slow and my cousin sped by him as soon as the road opened up.
So, a cop lying or misleading about a police report would not surprise me at all.
Im going to go ahead and caution you that since the policeman in question is not a public figure, you could be verging on libel territory. ”

Yeah, sue me.

Did O’Keefe appear on Fox NEWS shows or on Hannity and Beck? You folks on the left ALWAYS LIE.

gordon,
He appeared on both via the endless playing of the video tapes.

finch you really are an end justifies the means kind of guy, aren’t you? No one is condoning Acorn, to the extent that they have violated the law. Now tell me, has anyone brought charges against Acorn over any of this? No, right? So your Acorn outrage seems a little strong to me. In any event, what Maddow was covering, and what Mediaite has featured, is a story about investigative journalism gone amuck. O’keefe committed a fraud, both by the selective editing of some of the tapes, and by scamming everyone over the pimp outfit. This story, what Maddow and Mediaite are covering, relates to journalism, not Acorn. If you approve of that kind of “journalism”, if you are not outraged by that kind of “journalism” then you endorse that kind of “journalism”, whether it be perpetuated by the left or right. If you can only stand up righteously when it serves your own side, it is really just partisanship.

Maddow has reported a story. She showed the tapes. She has not committed any frauds, or done anything other than outing journalistic malfeasance.

Valkyrie:

She has committed multiple frauds which I specifically listed and supported in my original post, but you refuse to respond to because the facts don’t support you. Saying it over and over again isn’t going to make it true. For example, Maddow says that at the Los Angeles office, O’Keffe and Giles never said anything about smuggling children into the country to set up a brothel. THAT IS A LIE. I QUOTED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT AT LENGTH. THE LOS ANGELES ACORN WORK WAS TOLD THEY WANTED TO SETUP AN UNDERAGE BROTHEL, AND SHE AGREED TO HELP. Why won;t you admit that when it’s right there in black and white? The “journalism story” here is that Maddow is lying to her audience in an attempt to defend ACORN.

And, as you know, you can be corrupt and immoral without breaking the law. I agree that no laws were broken here. I’ve said since day 1. But the only reason why laws weren’t broken is because the ACORN workers never had an opportunity to perform an overt act in furtherance of the illegal acts they agreed to do. If this had been an FBI sting, the FBI would have taken it further and then arrested them at he last possible minute in order to satisfy that legal requirement. But the intent and willingness to break the law was there. That is corrupt, immoral, and deserves universal condemnation.

We had this discussion before, on another thread. You are perfectly willing to accept the so called “unedited transcripts”, provided I guess by Breitbart, without an investigation of the actual tapes themselves, as the CA AG office did.

And yes, it does matter that no charges were filed. As an attorney, you should know that mens rea, criminal intent, is something that always must be proved in a criminal case. How do you know what the mindset of the Acorn workers really was? The Hispanic guy in the Maddow piece claimed that he was milkng O’Keefe for information and then called the police. Who knows what was going on in any of their minds. One Acorn worker tried to play her own scam by pretending, I believe, to be a murderer or something (I can’t remember the exact details, but you have that one in your transcripts, right?). So that proves she was intending murder, or whatever? O’Keefe proposed to set up a brothel. So O’keefe therefore was “intending” to commit a crime? Obviously, criminal intent is not always gleaned by what people actually say. Correct? You were among those cheering prematurely Acorn’s depravity, but now we know that O’Keefe was a liar, and an unethical journalist, with FOX and other media outlets getting taken in. Why can not you at least admit that?

And I mentioned before, such great outrage over this but no outrage over Blackwater, who has recieved tens of millions of dollars in government contracts but has actually committed real crimes, serious ones.

Valkyrie:

The tape has been released for the transcript I quoted!!! It was released by the AG!! Breitbart’s transcript matches the tape released by the AG exactly!! You can’t close your eyes and claim that Brietbart made it up!!

Yes, O’Keefe lied about wearing the pimp outfit. I called him a “punk” for that. But that is inconsequential compared to the lies Maddow is telling.

And as for mens rea, you are making a novice’s mistake and misunderstanding the difference between specific intent and general intent, but that’s a discussion that would take up way too much space here.

And let’s cut to the chase on all this. The reason you Republicans hate Acorn is not because they are fools, or innept, or poor managers of their organization, or because they employ lower class people who are not too savvy, it is because they sign up lot’s of minority people to gather voter registration applications of mostly minority citizens. The Republicans do not like minority voters to be empowered to vote because they usually vote democratic. And before you go off on the charges that Acorn was signing up fraudulent voters by registering Mickey Mouse, consider, as several AG’s who investigated Acorn fraud realized, signing up a fraudulent name does not translate into a fraudulent vote unless the person has a valid driver’s license or other acceptable ID indicating that his name is Mickey Mouse when he shows up at the polling place. That whole scandal, which FOX went crazy on long before O’Keefe showed up with his own scam, was nothing but a bunch of Acorn temporary employees trying to pad their numbers so they could get paid more. The Acorn administration itself was not involved in that, and frequently reported obviously false voter registration names to government authorities.

Acorn is hated mostly because it signs up democrat minded minorities to vote. Period. Otherwise, I ask again, why no disdain of Blackwater, another company with government contracts which has actually committed serious crimes. Why no Fox condemnation of that despicable organization? Why no calls to have it stripped of its government contracts? And why do we see Blackwater reps on Fox as talking “expert” heads?

Valkyrie:

Of course. You can’t deal with the facts, so you call me a racist. You’re pathetic. Sorry, I’m done with this, and with you.

Well finch, I suppose since you are an attorney you would know more than I do about criminal intent, but you can humor me by extrapolating on how it is that you can tell what the intent of the Acorn workers were based on their statement alone. O’Keefe said he intended to set up a brothel. Acorn workers said some things. How can you say that the Acorn workers intended what they said any more than O’Keefe? The Hispanic man seemed to be going along with the O’Keefe scam involving importing minors for prostitution. But he said that he called the police right after O’Keefe left and passed on the information he obtained by his own questioning of O’Keefe. So if that is true, then he did not have criminal intent any more so than O’Keefe. Correct? And in other cases too, the Acorn worker, notwithstanding what they said, also called the police after O’Keefe left. So again, no criminal intent. Correct? But O’Keefe did not know they had no criminal intent because while O’Keefe was seeking to scam them, they were trying to scam O’Keefe. Yet no effort was made by FOX to confirm any of that with the person who O’Keefe video taped. Perhaps you want to say that FOX had no obligation to do that, but a good journalist would have tried.

Finch,
I called you a racist? How do you figure that? Because I said that Republicans do not like Acorn’s efforts to sign up minority voters? That most certainly does not imply racism, it implies that Republicans are not fond of more democrats coming on the voting roles. I must have touched a nerve or something.

valkyrie101 says: “And let’s cut to the chase on all this. The reason you Republicans hate Acorn is not because they are fools, or innept, or poor managers of their organization, or because they employ lower class people who are not too savvy, it is because they sign up lot’s of minority people to gather voter registration applications of mostly minority citizens. The Republicans do not like minority voters to be empowered to vote because they usually vote democratic.”

Yeah… it has nothing to do with ACORN signing up Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny and the Road Runner…Your right…a orginization like that deserves tax payer dollars. I’m glad your not incharge Valkyrie. You sure don’t seemed to mind the spending. Do you even pay taxes? There are those who give and those who take. What you give to one person you must take from another. You Dems sure spend like takers and not givers.

Again, Cowboy, the organization did not condone sighing up fake names, in fact when they found them, they marked them as probably fake before they sent them on to the voter registration office, as they are required by law to do. They are not permitted under the law to not send in the registration forms, in fact, even if they are obviously fake. The reason that some names were faked is because the people obtaining the names get paid more if they sign up a certain number of names, etc. The main point is this: a fraudulent voter registration form does not translate into a fake vote because in order to vote you must present proof of identity at the polling place. I suppose, if you could present a driver’s license with the name Mickey Mouse on it, then that might work, however, that is not likely. So Acorn was not out there trying to scam anyone, as I said, they were victimized by the workers they hired. .

Val:

I really don’t want to engage you because you’re clearly not interested in a fact-based debate. But for the sake of everyone else reading this board, I want to dispel your claim that registering fake voters has no relation to voter fraud.

Here’s how voter fraud works. Local polls are run by political partisans. In some areas, particularly heavily democratic districts, there aren’t enough challengers from the other party to properly monitor things. So, at the end of the evening, after the polls have closed, the challengers vote for people who didn’t actually show up at the polls that day.

The problem is that doing that artificially increases the turnout in that district, which raises questions and can lead to investigations (like calling the last 10 people who voted to see if they actually showed up at the polls that day). So, for example, let’s say there are 100 registered voters in a given district, and the turnout for that election is 50%. At the end of the day, you would expect to see 50 votes cast in that district. But if 50 people turned out to vote, and then the challengers voted another 20 voters who didn’t how up, it looks like turnout was 70%. That raises a red flag.

So, organizations like ACORN that are dedicated to and predicated on voter fraud have gotten more sophisticated. They prepare for the fraud by registering extra, fraudulent, non-existent voters. So, go back to my example from before. Instead of having 100 registered voters in the district, you now have 140 (100 real voters and 40 fraudulent, nonexistent voters). At the end of the day there is 50% turnout and 50 people have voted in that district. But now it looks like turnout was only 35%. The challengers then vote another 20 voters who didn’t show up. But now, instead of showing an excessive turnout that raises a red flag, the turnout looks normal and doesn’t raise any suspicions.

That’s why ACORN systematically registers non-existent voters: it makes it easier to hide their fraud on election day. So even if nobody ever shows up at the polls trying to vote as Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny, the existence of Mickey and Bugs on the voter rolls hides other fraudulent activity.

While I’d rather not go into details. Suffice it so say that I am from New Jersey and (as I have stated here before) I used to work for a Democratic member of Congress. I know a thing or two about voter fraud.

AnonymousFinch please don’t dazzle valkyrie101 with facts. He is so full of fiction.

One question, valkyrie101, do you support funding this corrupt org with tax payer money? They where caught on video tape, giving advise in multiple cities, on setting up under age brothels. What is wrong with you?

Tonight Rachel Maddow shows a ten second clip of Michele Bachmann, taking her comments completely out of context. How ironic, given Maddow complaining that Fox News only showed part of the Acorn videos. Who can take this woman seriously? If she wants to be a watchdog for journalistic ethics, she should start by cleaning up the abuses at her own show.

It is a moot point, cowboy, Acorn folded. But curious, isn’t it, all the law enforcement agencies that checked out the video footage found no criminal wrong doing by Acorn. But Blackwater, on the other hand, who has gotten tens of millions of dollars in government contracts, and has committed several serious criminal acts, including murder, still has its government contracts, and not word out of FOX to close them down. Indeed, Blackwater employees have been on Fox as talking heads.

valk, can you understand English? Hannity and Beck are NOT news programs. O’Keefe NEVER was a “guest” on the NEWS programs. You leftys need to quit trying to portray opinion shows as NEWS shows. Olberman and Maddow are not NEWS shows either, they are left-wing propaganda shows.

After all 71 comments above it comes down to this – Andrew Not So Breitbart manufactured the ACORN scandal and Fox Not News Channel marketed it like Proctor and Gamble does a new laundry soap. Finch and company can squirm all you like. ACORN is gone, but Maddow provides a service that might prevent the McCarthyism demonstrated by Notso and FNNC.

So Bill, you can just “declare” things to be a certain way, regardless the facts? If this were all manufactured then why were the participants fired, why were the Federal funds to the orginization stripped by Congress, and why did ACORN eventually fold? All over a story Brietbart made up! The only ones squirming are those trying to defend Maddow’s so-called investigation of half-truths.

Why has anybody ever employed Glynnis MacNicol to do anything? The woman is barely sentient.

RM, went you defend ACORN, you just prove to America just how out of touch you truly are.

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You want the news told correctly go to GBTV. Lefty TV is as guilty as Pravda.