They need to check the water in Tucson.

I’ve been following this since a couple days after it happened. The details of it are horrifying. Not only did they leave him to bleed to death while his wife frantically tried to get 911 to send someone to help but they refused her pleas to not force the child to walk over his bullet riddled body. All indications are the raid was a mistake, the guy was innocent, the siren could have been mistaken for a car alarm, especially since it played for only a moment, and if someone suddenly started banging on my door and yelling I’d be scared and have my wife and child hide in a closet as well, and if I had a shotgun or baseball bat I’d absolutely pick it up before peeking out a window (if had time) or otherwise try to figure out what is going on. The father’s first responsibility was to protect his family. He died doing so. I can’t imagine an ambulance would have been able to do anything for him, but at least they could have made the attempt for the sake of the wife and child.

Who will Sheriff Dupnik blame for this?

Taken in the context of the facts just presented in this story along with the video- it makes absolutely no sense that a SWAT team would even have been needed in this situation. Where was the FBI? If this involved human trafficking wouldn’t taking him alive have been a better idea? Based on the video – this guy didn’t stand a chance , I don’t know what the SWAT team was thinking, but maybe that was the problem – they didn’t.

I cant open the video from where I am, but i’ll give you my take anyway.

1st off, stop harping that he was a veteran. Many people serve then come home and do bad. Kerry, Murtha, Rangle, Durbin are just some examples. So it’s a non issue.

2nd. That he didnt get a shot off is the idea! We are not trained to get shot, then shoot back. As long as there are other factors in play.

3rd. The weapon was on safe? To unreal to fully bother answering.

Hey, I didnt see the video yet. Maybe they messed up and then they would deserve to get punished. But i’m telling you from experience that when the media gets involved with incidents consisting of law enforcement using actual force, it’s usually just phenominal ignorance and belly aching.

Allegations from a distraught widow and accusations from an ambulance chaser are to be taking with a grain of salt. Making the medics wait over an hour could be a problem. We’ll see.

skoorbekim said:
Who will Sheriff Dupnik blame for this?

Obama.

Steve_27 said:
I cant open the video from where I am, but i’ll give you my take anyway. 1st off, stop harping that he was a veteran. Many people serve then come home and do bad. Kerry, Murtha, Rangle, Durbin are just some examples. So it’s a non issue. 2nd. That he didnt get a shot off is the idea! We are not trained to get shot, then shoot back. As long as there are other factors in play. 3rd. The weapon was on safe? To unreal to fully bother answering. Hey, I didnt see the video yet. Maybe they messed up and then they would deserve to get punished. But i’m telling you from experience that when the media gets involved with incidents consisting of law enforcement using actual force, it’s usually just phenominal ignorance and belly aching. Allegations from a distraught widow and accusations from an ambulance chaser are to be taking with a grain of salt. Making the medics wait over an hour could be a problem. We’ll see.

Shorter version: I don’t have any facts, but I do have some opinions.

Good for you, big boy. Good for you.

RowdyHoward said:
Obama.

Actually this is the same Sherriff that blamed conservatives and Fox News (as if that makes any sense) for the Tuscon senator shooting a few months ago. He’s more likely to blame the Tea Party.

Rgentum said:
Shorter version: I don’t have any facts, but I do have some opinions.

What does Obama have to do with this?

1 hour and 14 minutes? They were waiting for him to die because they had just committed murder. They didn’t want the victim of their murder to be able to testify. So they waited for him to die. This is no better than Waco or Ruby Ridge.

skoorbekim said:
Who will Sheriff Dupnik blame for this?

Good one…

Innocent till proven dead

Rgentum said:
Shorter version: I don’t have any facts, but I do have some opinions. Good for you, big boy. Good for you.

Yes exactly. I admit this myself Clouseau. Except the 3 points I list, those are all still facts no matter how much you complain. 1, His previous job doesn’t matter. 2, We dont wait to get shot at and 3, if the gun was on safe is the biggest joke.

Thanks for noticing my “opinions.”

Waiting for over an hour to get this guy help is criminal. SWAT is trained to secure an area in seconds if not minutes. Are they saying they could not secure the house for over an hour?! If that’s the case, they’re the most f—ed up SWAT team in history. That house was secured in the first couple of minutes. They let this man die for no other reason than to cover their ass.

Bobomatic said:
Waiting for over an hour to get this guy help is criminal. SWAT is trained to secure an area in seconds if not minutes. Are they saying they could not secure the house for over an hour?! If that’s the case, they’re the most f—ed up SWAT team in history. That house was secured in the first couple of minutes. They let this man die for no other reason than to cover their ass.

It does seem hard to defend. I would only want to know how big was the house or what they thought they were dealing with and what was going in there. You dont want to let the medics in and then something blows up. Sound far fetched? I totaly agree but shit happens

I don’t know what to make of this. However, if the SWAT team is at fault then the OIC deserves prison for his negligence.

advise ppl to have guns to protect themselves, but when they do…shoot them

Arizona is really where the Nazis went after WWII.

Damn SWAT team! Don’t they know they need to check to see if the bad guy’s safety is on…before defending themselves and killing the creep. Does time in the military make all men and women saints? Grow up lefties, your panties are showing.

What is the first thing you do when your wife yells that the SWAT team is storming YOUR house…you grab your gun…right?…of course you do…we all do.

kvon said:
Arizona is really where the Nazis went after WWII.

Ok Kvon…thank you, here wipe that stuff off your chin and sit back down…drink your juice and later we can go outside.

Phocus2 said:
Ok Kvon…thank you, here wipe that stuff off your chin and sit back down…drink your juice and later we can go outside.

Oh, I get it, you’re making it seem like I’m an idiot…wow, funny…witty!

“Commensurate to the threat”. That is the law in some States regarding home or self defense.

Back in Denver, in 1990, a young man running from a fight in a Bar backed into a Police Officer who was standing behind the young man’s car. The young man did not know the Policeman was there (court records) and bumped into the Cop who subsequently went through a full 15 round plus magazine and part of a second. (court records)

Let me make this clear, I absolutely support Law Enforcement, BUT, how many rounds does it take to…?

Furthermore, “commensurate with the threat”. A prosecutor would not let me get away with shooting an armed burglar with 15 plus rounds. The Prosecutor would indict me as he would assert I went beyond “commensurate”.

I bet the swat team isn’t indicted or suspended for all those rounds they put out.

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

Another murder by the police state in the “war” on drugs. Kudos, social conservatives.

Steve_27 said:
1st off, stop harping that he was a veteran. Many people serve then come home and do bad. Kerry, Murtha, Rangle, Durbin are just some examples. So it’s a non issue.

2nd. That he didnt get a shot off is the idea! We are not trained to get shot, then shoot back. As long as there are other factors in play.

3rd. The weapon was on safe? To unreal to fully bother answering.

4th. He was in his own damn house minding his own damn business. Last I checked, it’s perfectly legal to own a weapon and defend your property with it. There was no good reason to storm the ouse in the middle of the night, and the idea that it took them over an hour to clear the house is ridiculous.

kvon said:
Oh, I get it, you’re making it seem like I’m an idiot…wow, funny…witty!

Oh, you don’t need anyone to do that for you, kvon.

There was NO VIDEO for me to access. However, given the nature of the reported story, one has to question how these men, specially trained, can react with such hysteria and clumsy oversight unless it was a deliberate execution. Then one has to wonder who authorizes such action?…and why?

Pablo said:
4th. He was in his own damn house minding his own damn business. Last I checked, it’s perfectly legal to own a weapon and defend your property with it. There was no good reason to storm the ouse in the middle of the night, and the idea that it took them over an hour to clear the house is ridiculous.

I agree that the hour clear is hard to defend. Owning the weapon was never an issue and i’m not knowing why they took the door the way they did. But when serving a warrant with a swat team, it’s usually for a reason. 3 cops died in Fla last month serving warrants. It’s a dangerous business and they usually do their homework before going in. We’ll have to find out more. And your “4″ has no affect on my 3.

Steve_27 said:
But when serving a warrant with a swat team, it’s usually for a reason..

False. Most cops are glorified meter maids with guns.

Shuleba said:
There was NO VIDEO for me to access. However, given the nature of the reported story, one has to question how these men, specially trained, can react with such hysteria and clumsy oversight unless it was a deliberate execution. Then one has to wonder who authorizes such action?…and why?

Mistakes are clearly possible. “Execution” is absurd. One time 3 of my friends had to shoot at a man with a gun. It was as legit as can be. There is so much to take into consideration you cant imagine. In this case, because of the angles the cops were at, one cops shots were ricocheting off a wall behind the perp and appeared to another cop to be being fired at him from the perp. They wound up in a triangle formation and when your hearing shots that close up lots can appear other then it is. I’m not saing thats what happened in this case but it’s just an example.

I just saw the video finally and it shows nothing. We need a trial to find out for sure, thats all.

Pablo said:
Oh, you don’t need anyone to do that for you, kvon.

On this particular topic, we seem to be on the same side buddy. I don’t like it, and I’m sure you don’t either
but seriously, this was a gross misuse of force. And chick up there thinks it was fine.

Military tactics are almost never appropriate in a situation like this. The guy was asleep in his house when the squad attacked. The squad created the dangerous situation (…since, after all, the 2nd Amendment says you can keep a gun in your own house…) so the squad bears responsibility for the murder of the victim.

Guerna was accused of drug smuggling, robbery and human trafficking. He had body armor and weapons in his home. The video shows nothing. I guess most of you missed those details. Pretty fun making up the rest in your head eh?

Lolwut said:
Guerna was accused of drug smuggling, robbery and human trafficking. He had body armor and weapons in his home. The video shows nothing. I guess most of you missed those details. Pretty fun making up the rest in your head eh?

There’s literally no evidence he was doing anything illegal. I guess you missed most of those details. But, hey, GO POLICE STATE!! huh?

Randall E. Winn said:
Military tactics are almost never appropriate in a situation like this. The guy was asleep in his house when the squad attacked. The squad created the dangerous situation (…since, after all, the 2nd Amendment says you can keep a gun in your own house…) so the squad bears responsibility for the murder of the victim.

But we need to be TOUGH ON CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111111

Publius219 said:
There’s literally no evidence he was doing anything illegal. I guess you missed most of those details. But, hey, GO POLICE STATE!! huh?

Nah, I dislike police. How many people outside of law enforcement have multiple weapons, and body armor in their home? His criminal resume’ is extravagant. You don’t know the details of what happened any more than I, but let’s just blindly assume he was a friendly fellow! GO WILD WEST STATE!! huh?

I only have one word to say: “Sheriff Dupnik” Yeah.. that Sheriff Dupnik.

MsUnderestimated said:
I only have one word to say: “Sheriff Dupnik” Yeah.. that Sheriff Dupnik.

Oops! That was two words, but one PERSON.

What is a greater example of a “Police State”, a bad Police shootIng, or, a plurality of Americans telling us what we can and should eat, read, smoke, wear seat belts or motorcycle helmets condoms etc.?

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

Lolwut said:
Nah, I dislike police. How many people outside of law enforcement have multiple weapons, and body armor in their home? His criminal resume’ is extravagant. You don’t know the details of what happened any more than I, but let’s just blindly assume he was a friendly fellow! GO WILD WEST STATE!! huh?

More like GO FREEDOM. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t, but law enforcement should always err on the side of freedom.

purveyor said:
What is a greater example of a “Police State”, a bad Police shootIng, or, a plurality of Americans telling us what we can and should eat, read, smoke, wear seat belts or motorcycle helmets condoms etc.?

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

Medicare and Medicaid make most of those things legitimate. Some are strawmen. So long as there’s socialized medicine, government and the public at large have an interest in people’s health, which covers the eat, smoke, seatbelt, helmet and condom portion of your flawed argument.

If you’re not actually a criminal and you wake up to the sound of armed men breaking into your home, your first thought isn’t likely to be that you’re being visited by the police. Last year, two of Vanessa Guerena’s (his wife) relatives were murdered by armed intruders. The intruders also shot the couple’s children.

Also, what Guerena is alleged to have said — “I’ve got something for you; I’ve gotten something for you guys” — sounds damning if you assume he knew the men in his home were police, but there’s nothing in that sentence indicating Guerena knew he was confronting cops. It also sounds like something a former soldier might shout out to intimidate armed intruders.

And let’s not forget, the same team of SWAT officers who reported hearing Guerena say those words also reported seeing a muzzle flash from Guerena’s gun, which we now know couldn’t have happened because his safe was on and the weapon had NOT been fired.

It’s clear that Guerna was a criminal.
But this isn’t the first time cops overreacted to a situation.
Everyone from little kids with remote controles to old people with a hocky sticks have been shot and killed by cops who can’t properly access what is happining.
I’m not qualified to give an opinion on how to make this kind of situation better, but I do the way cops handel things right know is the wrong way to do it. The biggest hint of this fact was the innocent people getting killed.

MsUnderestimated said:
I only have one word to say: “Sheriff Dupnik” Yeah.. that Sheriff Dupnik.

It was right wings talks fault… ya that’s the ticket. Never let a tragedy go to waist Mr. Dupnik…

struckgld said:
If you’re not actually a criminal and you wake up to the sound of armed men breaking into your home, your first thought isn’t likely to be that you’re being visited by the police. Last year, two of Vanessa Guerena’s (his wife) relatives were murdered by armed intruders. The intruders also shot the couple’s children. Also, what Guerena is alleged to have said — “I’ve got something for you; I’ve gotten something for you guys” — sounds damning if you assume he knew the men in his home were police, but there’s nothing in that sentence indicating Guerena knew he was confronting cops. It also sounds like something a former soldier might shout out to intimidate armed intruders. And let’s not forget, the same team of SWAT officers who reported hearing Guerena say those words also reported seeing a muzzle flash from Guerena’s gun, which we now know couldn’t have happened because his safe was on and the weapon had NOT been fired.

When is the last time we’ve read of a SWAT raid that didn’t go down terribly? Something is terribly wrong in our trigger-happy culture.

That was a snuff video. You don’t knock someone’s door down and then discharge 3-4 automatic weapons on the first person you see without first communicating with the person.
Common sense!
Now if the person is a fugitive on the run following a murder spree, I’d have little problem with it. But not someone in his own home, without a history of violent behavior, being woken up then shot to death a minute later.
The people responsible for that operation and the trigger pullers should be held responsible.

illusive says “it’s clear guerna was a criminal”.

From WHAT evidence? EVERYTHING to date shows he was NOT a criminal. He had NO criminal record. Had earned decorations in combat in two deployments to Iraq. He was a local volunteer. He never fired a shot and warned the intruders to go away; then they opened fire.

The Sheriff of Pina County, Clarence Dupnik, is to the LEFT of Fidel Castro. Obviously he believes in the same sort of law and order enforcement Fidel does – shoot them, bury them, then lie.

struckgld said:
The Sheriff of Pina County, Clarence Dupnik, is to the LEFT of Fidel Castro. Obviously he believes in the same sort of law and order enforcement Fidel does – shoot them, bury them, then lie.

Oh…I didn’t know that the leftist shithead Dupnik was involved! That kinda puts things in perspective, since we know how radical leftists loathe our military personnel. I hope Congress opens a full investigation into Dupnik’s actions in this cold blooded murder. I wouldn’t put it past him to have told the SWAT team to fire on first sight because the target was some “right wing soldier terrorist”. Remember Napolitano’s report?

Napolitano: Veterans are Targets of Right-Wing Extremist Recruiters

WASHINGTON — The head of homeland security said Sunday she regrets that some people took offense over a report warning that right-wing extremist groups were trying to recruit disgruntled troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.
But Secretary Janet Napolitano added that “a number of groups far too numerous to mention” want to commit domestic terrorism attacks and are looking for new recruits.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/19/napolitano-veterans-targets-right-wing-extremist-recruiters#ixzz1NaeY5CTR

Now things make a little more sense. Definitely not a stretch to wonder if Napolitano and Dupnik had something to do with the way this SWAT team indiscriminately decided that they needed to break down this soldier’s front door and then pump 60 bullets into him.

“To serve and protect.”

Publius219 said:
Medicare and Medicaid make most of those things legitimate. Some are strawmen. So long as there’s socialized medicine, government and the public at large have an interest in people’s health, which covers the eat, smoke, seatbelt, helmet and condom portion of your flawed argument.

PUBLIUS:

I don’t believe I even made an argument. I simply asked two questions. “An example of a “flwed argument is “non sequitur”–an inference not based on the premise. Ergo, you answered questions I didn’t ask.

Furthermore “an interest in people’s health” and their well being has been catalyst for much mischief throughout history. Judging from your Post, you wouldn’t mind having a more pro-active Government. Oc course, as long as it is your your Government, that is pro-active and making the rules.

struckgld said:
illusive says “it’s clear guerna was a criminal”. From WHAT evidence? EVERYTHING to date shows he was NOT a criminal. He had NO criminal record. Had earned decorations in combat in two deployments to Iraq. He was a local volunteer. He never fired a shot and warned the intruders to go away; then they opened fire.

I only assumed because you can’t be accused of drug smuggling, robbery and human trafficking without some form of evidence to back it up.
But if what you say is correct, then there is something corrupt festering in Pima County.

PUBLIUS:

Hypothetically: A local Gun Company, tells its employees it will no longer provide Healthcare to employees who own and ride Motorcycles.

Subsequently the local Motorcycle Company, tells its employees that it will not provide Health insurance for employees that own guns.

Does this scenario give you any insight as to why Conservatives find Liberals inconsistent and intolerant?

Wait until “Your Ox is Gored”.

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

illusive man said:
I only assumed because you can’t be accused of drug smuggling, robbery and human trafficking without some form of evidence to back it up.
But if what you say is correct, then there is something corrupt festering in Pima County.

Pretty clear the cops got the wrong guy because that was what they were doing all day: going to the wrong homes. Read the WHOLE article please:

Jose Guerena Killed: Arizona Cops Shoot Former Marine In Botched Pot Raid

First Posted: 05/25/11 05:42 PM ET Updated: 05/26/11 12:25 PM ET

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

Boy, heads need to roll over this. Unbelievable!

Truly disgusting. 70 shots fired at one man? This wasn’t a swat team, it was nothing more than a bunch of immature little boys playing “lets be the most violent policemen we can be” games..

We see this more and more. Police overstepping their authority, and another person is shot & killed that didn’t need to be killed. It’s almost like the police don’t think anymore, or they don’t care anymore, or they’re so poorly trained they know nothing about the job of good law enforcement.

These so called “men” should be up on charges for this horrific crime, as it truly is a crime, because of their nothing but criminal actions.
As for Mike Storie the swat team lawyer, defending them for this? The man needs to go back to law school for a much needed refresher course.

Source: ABC News

The SWAT team that gunned down an ex-Marine in his own home was targeting him as part of a drug and home-invasion probe, but no drugs were found in the home, documents released by the Pima County sheriff’s office show.

SWAT team members acknowledge in interviews that Jose Guerena never fired his weapon before the officers broke down his door and killed him with a barrage of 71 bullets, shown in a dramatic helmet-cam video released Thursday.

Guerena, 26, a veteran of two tours of duty in Iraq, was asleep after working a night shift at the Asarco copper mine when his wife, Vanessa, saw the team outside her youngest son’s bedroom window and yelled to her husband. He grabbed his AR-15 rifle.

Vanessa Guerena didn’t know the men were SWAT officers and thought they might be home invaders, especially because two members of her sister-in-law’s family were killed last year in their Tucson home, her lawyer, Chris Scileppi, said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/swat-team-gunned-marine-find-drugs/story?id=13702756

Well, when the military despising ABC News defends a veteran; you know this leftist Sheriff Dupnik in Pina County has something to hide about his fiasco.

What is needed is a special investigator and a Grand Jury.

I think the cops and the sheriff in that county are dirty. No need to have killed him.

“but was asleep until his wife warned him that the SWAT team was storming his house.”

In the interest of factual accuracy, she (the wife) didn’t know who was “storming his house”. All she knew, and all she allegedly told her husband was that armed, masked men were trying to enter the home. They’re quite clearly in blue jeans and camaflouge. Does that look like any civilian police force you’re familiar with?

“The SWAT team lawyer”

Full stop. Does that not raise anyone else’s eyebrows? Why does a “SWAT” team have a lawyer? Criminals have lawyers. Companies have lawyers. Politicians have lawyers. Are SWAT teams supposed to have lawyers now too?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and the DOJ had better start investigating Dupnik and his jack-booted thugs for civil rights violations. But, considering Dupnick is a political ally to both Holder and Obama, I won’t hold my breath.

Republitarian said:
she (the wife) didn’t know who was “storming his house”

One of the articles I read said she thought it was a home invasion. Given the area, that is certainly plausible. This story is gut wrenching.

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Dupnik is a murderer.

kvon said:
On this particular topic, we seem to be on the same side buddy. I don’t like it, and I’m sure you don’t either
but seriously, this was a gross misuse of force. And chick up there thinks it was fine.

Dupnik murdered a Iraq vet. What do you think of him now?

Among all terrorism country, Iraq is one of the famous. Iraq supports to all terrorist and terrorism. And that kind of soldiers attacks normals in there. After Laden death , they should try to improve themselves.
http://homebasedbusiness.com/profile/Jeromelvareztom

Bottom line this was a heavy handed action. If we allow this behavior those sworn “to protect and serve” will become used to excessive action and expect us to accept it. Why couldn’t they stake out the place and arrest him as a suspect rather than raid the place. Something more subtle would have been appropriate and less invasive. This is not Fallujah, Iraq we don’t need the same tactics used there in our communities. When the solution to the war on drugs becomes worst than the crime itself then what are we accomplishing? Clearly there was an error in intelligence information going into this operation and that must be investigated with accountability. To continue this type of operation will in fact reduce us to a police state.

Jayson said:
We see this more and more. Police overstepping their authority, and another person is shot & killed that didn’t need to be killed. It’s almost like the police don’t think anymore, or they don’t care anymore, or they’re so poorly trained they know nothing about the job of good law enforcement.

Remember what SWAT stands for: “Special Weapons And Tactics”. In that term, does anyone see “law enforcement” or “police”. When SWAT is called, people die. Here is why, SWAT is a tactical branch, that means they share more in common with our infantry than with the average cop. The mindset is different, if you look at the initial months of our incursion into Iraq, you will see that we used Infantry soldiers to do police functions. (No, I am not slamming our military, stay with me.)

An infantryman is trained to seek and destroy the enemy at close range. He spends his career training those skills so that they are automatic, because in a firefight, a half second can mean your commander is writing your Mom. We took those men, gave them some quick and dirty training and said, “go be Military Police”. It is a credit to our military that more screw ups did not happen and that they made up ground as quick as they did.

SWAT comes at it from almost in reverse, they start in law enforcement and work back to infantry. They assume you are armed and are going to come in hot. The point man probably thought he saw something and opened up. In the chaos, they massacred the man and it is a wonder his wife is still breathing. Add to that, it is Pima county where the drug dealers do open up first and soon it will be do so with more than automatic weapons. So thank you, President “The Borders are Secure” Obama.

For anyone who has not checked a map, depending on how you travel, you can be to Mexico in a jiff. I was stationed south of Tuscon, it was less than an hour to the border, on the nice roads, less on dirt. Now, if the cops are found guilty (which is a good bet), they are liable and should face the music. But get ready gang, until our border stops being the entry way for a new voting block, you are going to see more of this on the border, not less. The cops have families that they would like to get home to as well. It sucks, so look at the gutless, cowardly, and decadent politicians of both parties that have handed this mess to the cops first place.

To: STRUCKGOLD,

A reasonable set of Posts. Well thought out. My compliments.

Personally, I always try to support the Police, as they have such a difficult and dangerous occupation. However, apparently , this raid was under the aegis of Sheriff Dupnik hence, we must consider the chain of command and training of the Officers. Ergo, this incident is a reflection of the Sheriff’s ethos.

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

Sidhekitten said:
An infantryman is trained to seek and destroy the enemy at close range. He spends his career training those skills so that they are automatic, because in a firefight, a half second can mean your commander is writing your Mom. We took those men, gave them some quick and dirty training and said, “go be Military Police”. It is a credit to our military that more screw ups did not happen and that they made up ground as quick as they did.

To: SIDEHEKITTEN,

OK, good analysis—-BUT—-rhetorically, how many bullets does it take to kill a guy on a couch? (Yes, I know he had a handgun) Moreover, incidents, like the one in Denver I mentioned earlier and New York’s, Amadou Diallo killing, have something in common: The Police emptied their magazines.

(Note: Today, a basic infantryman is trained to husband ammunition.)

Anyway, The Criminal Courts are much more sympathetic to a Police Officer putting ten or so rounds into a bad guy, than they are to a homeowner putting two or three. There is an imbalance, don’t you agree?

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

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purveyor said:

Hypothetically: A local Gun Company, tells its employees it will no longer provide Healthcare to employees who own and ride Motorcycles.

Subsequently the local Motorcycle Company, tells its employees that it will not provide Health insurance for employees that own guns.

Fellow Space Travelers,

I Posted this earlier to “PUBLIUS”, (scroll up toward the top) as a “hypothetical”. The truth is, this actually happened, about 20 years ago.

Think about the implications and how such, actually, continues to happen. Sooner or later the things you enjoy will be threatened: Bicycles are dangerous, Kayaker’s will drown, you can’t have a cigarette in a bar… and on and on.

In fact, rather insightful Science Fiction Writers have been using such thoughts as premises for decades!

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

purveyor said:
In fact, rather insightful Science Fiction Writers have been using such thoughts as premises for decades!

1984-”We have increased chocolate production by half” yeah! “We are reducing chocolate rations by one fourth” Huh? Big Brother is watching! Careful Purveyor they may knock your door down and………

Sidhekitten said:
An infantryman is trained to seek and destroy the enemy at close range.

During my military service we were trained in the use of weapons and signed statements that indicated we understood the nature of Use of Force. You use the minimum necessary to resolve the situation you are in. With 71 shots fired these guys didn’t get that training, don’t you think?

tatboy said:
Dupnik is a murderer.

So this kind of stuff only bothers when the Sheriff is a Democrat? Shows how ethical and thoughtful you aren’t

Republitarian said:
“but was asleep until his wife warned him that the SWAT team was storming his house.”

In the interest of factual accuracy, she (the wife) didn’t know who was “storming his house”. All she knew, and all she allegedly told her husband was that armed, masked men were trying to enter the home. They’re quite clearly in blue jeans and camaflouge. Does that look like any civilian police force you’re familiar with?

“The SWAT team lawyer”

Full stop. Does that not raise anyone else’s eyebrows? Why does a “SWAT” team have a lawyer? Criminals have lawyers. Companies have lawyers. Politicians have lawyers. Are SWAT teams supposed to have lawyers now too?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and the DOJ had better start investigating Dupnik and his jack-booted thugs for civil rights violations. But, considering Dupnick is a political ally to both Holder and Obama, I won’t hold my breath.

Yeah, he is one of their minions, nice to see vintage right wing paranoia and hypocrisy in action. Also, vet or not, does that make this man’s death any more horrible or heinous?

Rockycomet said:
1984-”We have increased chocolate production by half” yeah! “We are reducing chocolate rations by one fourth” Huh? Big Brother is watching! Careful Purveyor they may knock your door down and………

Well done sir. (or madam) Fahrenheit 451,is also analogous. In fact many of of the classic Sci-fi prognostications are.

“All Animals are equal, but”…

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

jakester said:
So this kind of stuff only bothers when the Sheriff is a Democrat? Shows how ethical and thoughtful you aren’t

JAKESTAR, perhaps I am missing part of the conversation, or, the two of you (TATBOY) have disagreed before? BUT, that is fairly large leap considering the brevity of the original statement?

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