Rather than teach the bible, why not create a World Religions course and teach all the major religions?

Teach the Koran.

Agreed……if you want to teach the bible, then you have to teach the koran and the talmud 

Allow? The separation of church and state exists for a reason as it’s a slippery slope. I have no doubt that if it’s given the go ahead, it’ll end up becoming mandatory and used to push creationism down the line.

What does the legislature mean by “teach”? I taught The Bible for years and was able to relate to Greek mythology quite well if I do say so myself.

If the legislature wants teachers to proselytize, then we’ve got a different issue. http://bit.ly/wVumg2

Just a slight correction: the preferred spelling is Qur’an

Glad my child is out of school.  I would forcefully fight this.  Keep Bible in Church.  Keep regular classes in schools.

Yup.  Thet’s watt we need, Lamar-Gene.

Oh, God, yes!  Let’s take our schools back to 1875, when men were men, women were subservient, blacks were treated badly, prejudice abounded, and God was our leader!  Things were so much better then — weren’t they?  Say, what?!

Spot on! I took a couple of religion courses in college alongside many theists (99% Christian) and none of us felt indoctrinated or anything, it was a real historical, philosophical, and analytical course that took us all around the world as well as through several centuries of the passing on of beliefs. Great stuff.

I am not so sure God even wants back in the schools after what liberals have done with them
Columbine for example.

You don’t have to teach doctrine to teach about the Bible

The sooner children are indoctrinated into biblical teachings, the sooner they can become real Americans. 

South Dakota (or any other state) could institute something that would serve as a model for other states and possibly remove most if not all of the controversy surrounding teaching religion in public schools. Stephen Prothero makes a compelling case for teaching religion in public schools in a way most people could agree on. http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-10-04-column04_ST_N.htm

If you just teach the bible, you’re endorsing one religion over others, and people should object to that.

Hey – paulmdoro is back !!

Hardly ever agree with ya’ (except on this topic), but I’m glad to see you posting !

Welcome Back !  Cheers !

“swing and a miss”

Stop trying to troll so hard. 

Social commentator and former alter-boy George Carlin sums it up, “Think
about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man
living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And
the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.
And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and
smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and
suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of
time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs
money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just
can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes,
and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull*** story.
Holy S***!”

I remember taking a course, “The Bible as Literature,” that was more contentious–and flat-out fun–than any “learning” assignment I’d sat through before or since….

The Federal Government had better grow some….. and demand this be stopped in every PUBLIC school that receives funding!   Talk about brain washing kids..bad enough it is done in Churches.  Dumbing down when education needs to be enlightened, is so ridiculous.  Stop it!!!  

Columbine? You need to go to church and repent for that one. 

No child should have religion forced on them as to do so is quite un American. This country is not a dictator state!

I suspect the same people that desire Bible Study in South Dakota Public Schools, coincidentally  look upon the peculiar practices and inculcation of Muslim youth, disdainfully?

                      “Beware when pursuing the Monster, lest he become you”

                                                 Fritz Nietzsche

The Purveyor of Rhetoric

Seriously: Does neither the author nor the editor understand the meaning of the phrase “toes the line”?

I miss Carlin (and Pryor and Kinison). They imparted a lot of wisdom while being funny as sh!t.

I think it was my religion class in college that started me down the road to atheist reality. Who could worship a god who is such an a$$hole? Now I tell folks that I am only slightly more of an atheist than they are; I just believe in one LESS god. (I wish I could remember where I got that from.)

We are at war with an evil theocracy, and now we are to take the first step to becoming one, ourselves?  As long as there is religious freedom in the home and in the place of worship, formal prayer and partisan religious study has no place in the public school.

Good God, we complain about the quality of teachers and how insidious Unions are, then in the next breath we want these same teachers to teach our children religion?  NUTS!

Purveyor

Every child in America needs to know the Bible, which will bring them one step closer to accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior.

If you hold another religious belief, then put your child in a private school run by liberals who hate America. The rest of our children can learn about the Bible like real Americans. 

Very true. 

Nothing will ensure the demise of organized religion faster as shining light into exactly what is in the good books, so let them teach it I say.

Point out the fact that religion, unlike science, is geographical.  Maybe it will became clear to more people that someone’s religion for all intents a purposes is an accident of birth, some plan. 

Can you imagine if we had Middle East math as opposed to an Asian, North American or European math?  The sooner the belief in the supernatural is exposed for the fraud it is the better.

I have no problem with objective teaching (that is the operative word) religion in public schools. I have an issue with preaching and proselytizing of said religion in those same schools. Educators should do it, not priests, nuns or Imams. I think it serves students better if they knew something about all world religions, their tenets, dogma etc taught in an objective way. 

I think he/she was being sarcastic. 

You are truly an idiot. What did the Columbine massacre have to do with religion OR liberals?

 Schools are for learning, not for bible studies. I don’t pay taxes for teachers to waste time teaching kids the bible, I pay taxes for teachers to spend time teaching kids math, english, science etc.  If you want your kids to learn about the bible, send them to church, that’s what the church is there for.
As a PP has already mentioned, if my kids were still in school, I’d be fighting this bullsh** tooth and nail. When are the over religious nutcases ever going to learn that not everyone thinks/believes like they do, or would ever want to think/believe like they do?  

The country has more than one religion, it has more than one holy book. The bible, in case the south dakota house hasn’t noticed lately, is not the be all and end all. 
 

I love that quote by old Fritz.  There have been times I have used such to remind myself to beware!

Thanks

They want to proselytize. Why else would they say “…the move would be a positive, promoting the ‘traditional values that America was founded on’….”? The intention is to indoctrinate.

The Christianists may not like that. 

DON’T FEED!!!! Too late :(

You just want to shove morals & ethics down down people’s throats which is wrong which you don’t get. Reading the bible or not reading the bible doesn’t make any of them less americans and your biblethumber as well. 

If it was teaching all world religions at least popular ones then I’m fine with it. I have a problem with SD kinda sounds that this is going to be to preachy which I think is wrong on so many levels. I bet this will go to court and they will tell SD about Separaton Of Curch & State.

Education needs to go back to State and local jurisdictions so parents can choose and know what their kids are being taught. This is not a liberal/conservative argument….it’s common sense. A liberal community could choose what their kids are learning and a conservative community could also.
The Federal Government “on-size-fits-all” policy sucks.
Farm kids who want to do what Daddy does are  learning calculus for gawds sake.

It’s about getting one foot in the door, and when the second foot enters, it kicks creationism into the room.  There are already comparative religion courses in high school and it’s only the fundamentalist Christians who want it –  presumably their children don’t get enough of it from the church.  If it boils down to creationism, fine – then teach a course in comparative creation mythology.  Failing that, I suggest that it should be encouraged that science be taught in the church.  Enough is enough, don’t you think?

BOTTOM LINE:  COLLEGE.

Public school?  Not so much.

the ‘traditional values that America was founded on’….”?

Well…….
The Treaty of Tripoli, carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams in 1797…
“As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;”

‘mericans

What the Liberals have done with them?????”

Quote: “Fundamentalists teach that gays are evil and destroying America. Is it any wonder then that kids raised in this environment will often go after students they believe to be gay? ……”And kids taught these lessons carry them to school and act on them. And with a thousand verbal knifes they slash away at the self-esteem of the “other”. And often, very often, they turn their taunts into physical violence. Day in and day out the student seen as the “other” is attacked and harassed and sometimes they snap and people die. It is not justified to kill over such things but is it unexpected? The fundamentalist may want to blame it on evolution but I think they should look closer to home for some of the answers.”

 2s)  Quote:  The link between bullying and school violence has attracted increasing attention since the 1999 rampage at Colorado’s Columbine High School. Both of the shooters were classified as gifted children and had been victims of bullying for years. A year later, an analysis by officials at the US Secret Service of 37 premeditated school shootings found that bullying, which some of the shooters described “in terms that approached torment,” played the major role in more than two-thirds of the attacks.”

“Occupation, Foole!  ”Spell it with a final “e” just to piss em off”

Point taken, LARRY

Purveyor

Sruprise, MP – Americans come in all colors and all religions.  If you think knowing about the bible makes you a real American, then you must advocate that every real American is a pagan, because Pauline Christianity that is your precious religion is of Roman origin.  Jesus, the man God is just a new brand of an old story of God plus virgin equals sacrifical man-god.  Even your OT is edited, interpolated and misinterpreted. 

The sad part is that there is that small cult of fundamentalists (our very own Christo-Taliban) who do believe just that.

Try Bill Maher.

That’s terrible, brainwashing children before they are old enough to make their own decisions about religion. Religous zealots and religious nuts are just as bad as pedophiles.

Supposing the child is taught in a creationist/ fundamentalist/ private bible school and then moves a few thousand miles away, across the country, for work, secondary school or training?  They will fall totally on their collective arses, because they won’t do well away from their own dark ages thinking.

Education needs to be standardized across the country to allow people to move freely and stil “fit in” elsewhere.

Americans are already being called “silly” because of this backwards kind of thinking that religion somehow belongs in general education.  Religion is for home and church and should stay there. 

Very refreshing stuff!

Or just:  “Good ol’ Murcuhns.”

Maybe if they want bible study they should send their kids to a religious school, but keep religion out of public schools.

I just received a thick letter in the mail and in it was a Christian prosyletizing book with a note attached that a “friend” thought I should read it, and a card for further subscriptions, as if on TV, and at the door isn’t enough.  I believe I will send them a return letter asking them why they can’t respect that other people already have their own beliefs and probably also print out a tract about the REAL beginnings of their own religion.

I think the study of religion is extremely important… especially as it pertains to history. Kids should know about the world, and they should know about other worldviews.

I’m not talking about teaching theology.

If it doesn’t go against separating state and church, isn’t conducting mini Sunday Schools on school premises somewhat like having banks and coffee shops inside supermarkets, or fast food restaurants in department stores? Also, what version of the Bible would be used? I’d suggest the Lego brick one in this case.

The ironic thing is that many of the early settlers were fleeing their own countries where there was a state religion, and came here to escape persecution, and then began fighting here about whose was superior, ergo the constitution with separating of church and state, and now these wingnuts want to create a state religion here with their own narrow version of what religion is.  One poster described it as “to be an American one must be a Christian” – Is that not called aptly “Fascism comes carrying a bible and wrapped in a flag?”

It’s actually either. Depending on which country you live in…I know in Turkish it’s Koran, as there is no letter q in the alphabet. It’s also a Koran in Arabic. It probably is only a Qur’an in English because historically English speakers don’t know how to spell or pronounce many foreign words.

Absolutely! Also, it would be helpful to learn the history of the Bible, who wrote it, when, what was going on in the world at the time… It would become much less mystical and more in line with the great myths of other civilizations.

That’s exactly right! Have you heard the uproar over teaching Yoga in the public schools? OMG! They’re trying to turn our children into Hindus!

That’s right….Let’s teach our children that they are abominations unto God.
IF
They are wearing two different fabrics. i.e. Girls Latex Bra & Cotton blouse/Boys underwear & gym shorts
They are eating hamburger (meat from a cow, not a bull) and are drinking milk or a milkshake.
They eat shellfish.
They eat ham or bacon.
Oh and since this is a farming state..You can’t plant two different crops beside each other.
There are many more.

Then can we also have Ezekiel 16:49 taught to them? The reason the Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed? Hint..it wasn’t because they were gay. It was because they didn’t care for the sick, elderly or poor.

Just so Christians know what Jesus said about gays…It’s below this line
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Certainly, if relgion is taught in parallel as in a comparative religions class late in secondary school, college or university.  Kids have always learned about the world in history and geography classes geared to their level.  YOU may not be talking about theology but that is just exactly what the people who are forcing religion classes want. 

mý büddý’s hálf-sîstêr mákês $73 áñ höür öñ thê cömpütêr. Shê hás bêêñ öüt öf á jöb för 7 möñths büt lást möñth hêr páý wás $8135 jüst wörkîñg öñ thê cömpütêr för á fêw höürs. Rêád mörê öñ thîs wêb sîtê… lázycásh10.cöm

You are a perfect example of why Bible studies do not belong in public schools. You have been so brainwashed that you are now unable to make a decision for yourslef but must rely on a book and religion to do it for you. Jesus was as liberal as you can get so I pity you ignorance.

Although I believe in evolution – I wish they would call it something other than the “Origin of the Species”. Evolution is undeniable – origin is debatable. Regardless – creationism ought not be taught in schools
http://wordsofwhizdumb.com/2011/11/so-you-say-you-want-evolution.html 

Now we all know what “encourage” really means. Don’t think the american people dumb!!! Just accept the seperation of church and state because it was done for a really good reason!!!

It worked in the past and it will work now.
A student taught in a rural area will learn how to adapt in a suburban setting…unless he/she has been programmed to disbelieve that it is possible.
it’s called “leaving home”

A student taught in a rural area is a sitting duck in the city until he develops “street smarts” – some never do, and a kid from a private religious school or a homeschooled one is all the more vulnerable.

Remember this? The Colorado Church gunman was identified as Matthew Murray, 24, who was home-schooled in what a friend said was a deeply religious Christian household.

When he finally went to high school, he couldn’t cut it and didn’t fit in.  

I am a Christian and I believe in the separation of church and state.  Letting one foot in the door is the harbinger of a religiously led nation.   As a country, we have many different religions.  Which is pre-eminent?  This would lead to a nation led by one religion.  Let religion be taught in the church and practiced by each different group.  I was taught the first settlers came here so that they could freely exercise their religiousl beliefs, and not have one religion predominant over another.

Why would you call the people at Columbine Liberals?

Maybe the elementary schools should be teaching American history so
they learn now this country was developed in its early years. Leave the
bible teaching to later in high schools or university when the ability to 
think and reason can be used in the comparative study of the worlds
religions. Education should be about learning not being force fed myths.

You can prove Evolution?

Example:  Origin of species as in why is the zebra (a species of horse) different from a regular horse?  How did that begin (what was the origin)?

Agreed – absolutely!

Agreed.

But they will…they most definitely will…..

It should be done in a form of higher education were there is an ability to reason more readily. Public school should be left to the basics like reading, writing, and math. Then comes basic english, science, and history. Extremist religion demands do not belong in public school period. That belongs in denominational education during family time or personal time since it is personal. We have to many high school graduates leaving the public school environment that do not have basic skills as it is.

No, but the Flying Spaghetti Monster told me it was true!

Religion and science both seek to explain man’s existence. In a way they are two branches of the same tree.  The only thing I know for certain is, no matter our origin, we are destroying our future.

Start teaching the truth,all religions are based on myth and therefore can not be true.Theocracies create ignorant societies.

Religious freaks want to kill everything on the planet,exept an unborn fetus.

You my friend are an idiot.

The Federal Government needs to grow a set of cajones NOW. The fundamentalists have already infiltrated many schools in the form of after school Bible Studies. However they aren’t teaching the Bible they are trying to convert them to fundamentalists.

The Christians might actually like part of the Koran. After all you will find out that the Koran is where you will learn the most about Jesus’ brothers.

True…but I’d rather people learn about Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism from an objective educator than some screaming bigoted miscreant on TV or radio. More knowledge is better than less. 

If I hear one more innane comment about Christianity and traditional American values I’m going to lose it.
If they really taught a course on the Bible, where it actually came from and other details, Christian parents would have a fit.

I would just do a quick surveys the world’ religions but nothing too detailed. It’s really not worth teaching in a public school. Suff lik that could be done on your own time outside of school.

I am sorry LORASINGER, in the volume of mail recently I missed your thoughtful post.  Again, my apologies and thank you.

Note:  The quote I posted by Nietzsche is so appropriate in this context as various religions have been “pursuing the Monster,” off and on, for millennia?

Purveyor

What I’m getting at is you can’t teach about things like Martin Luther, Sumeria, The Crusades, and countless other events, people, places, and things without giving some sort of narrative or explanation about the worldview of the people that took part. It’s contextual and intertwined with the history.

Having said that, I’d also like to see a reinvigorated civics curriculum in every school around here.

That same flying spaghetti monster told me Creationism was true. He’s screwing one of us….

Hey Lora – yeah – I get that. It just always struck me that “origin” – to a lot of folks – also means the beginning. IMO opinion, Darwin (and others) have proved that species evolve, mutate – or whatever term you prefer over a period of time. So, yes – some horse species evolved into zebras – but IMO that does not necessarily speak to how horses were created – how the universe was created – i,e, – the origin. Long winded way of saying (and this is coming from an atheist) – I think the teaching of evolution in school would be almost a non-issue if it were taught as evolution versus origin. Maybe tortured logic on my part – but it wouldn’t be the first time

Within the standard scientific definition of proof – yes, I believe it has been proven that species evolve. Is it absolute proof? – Absolutely not – just as there is not absolute  proof of universal gravitation -  but there is sufficient evidence to make the theory reliable 

I disagree, it isn’t that hard to explain e reformation movement or the crusades without getting into religious dogma. Ditto for the crusades. Not sure what you mean by Sumerian though. The religions of Sumerian are dead.

The fundamentalist Christian crowd just can’t get their teeth out of the word “origin” and forget what it modifies - ”of species”-  and that it doesn’t mean origin of ALL things.  The study of the origin of all things is called abiogenesis, meaning roughly “from the time that biological life forms first came into existance – human and animal” (also long winded). 
They’re shaking the wrong cat!

Have you ever asked a fundamentalist just what the word “evolution” means?  Like a pup that’s told “sick’em” ,mostly he doesn’t even know what he’s barking at.

Pretty sure he’s screwing you over.

I would suggest that Christians were first reminded that Jesus was a practicing Jew from birth to death who, himself, stated that he had been sent to “only the lost sheep of Israel” and directed his apostles to avoid gentile towns. 

Then compare Jewish beliefs with Christian beliefs.  In fact you can do it yourself just by going to WhatJewsBelieve.org.

One garden, two different plants and no, the one isn’t the roots of the other.

Except that the first explains it with myths and legends (every civilization has a creation story – all different) and science does it by investigation, building layer on layer, depending on what that investigation finds.  Religion mythology doesn’t change.  Science sets aside what is found to be faulty and is constantly on a path toward learning more and building a theory.  (By the way, a “theory” in science isn’t a guess – It’s a conclusion based on a series of facts)

One would have to live a very long time to watch most species evolve, so a great deal is done by studying transitional fossils - or life forms with very short life spans – i.e. antibiotic-resistant microorganisms – or a rare mutation in the coating of the blood cells of some humans that renders them immune to HIV.  Since deaths from HIV increase every year, it is these offspring who carry the mutation who will survive.  One small step in evolution.

B.S.

Absolute agreement.

Oh man, now what are we going to believe?

More live babies to make more dead soldiers.

Dead, yes, but an integral part of the culture. It’s history worth knowing.

Usually, the one who thinks he’s not being screwed, is the one being screwed.

It is still a theory and not a fact. Without absolute proof, it is not an established fact.What you believe does not make it a fact. Evolution does not happen in the world today. If it does, give me one, only one example. Also, think on this. For evolution to have occurred,there would have to be a starting point. If something crawled out of the slime to eventually become a human being, where did that something come from? A three year old child once said to me, If God made us, who made God? I have no answer and neither do you.

It would be very difficult to teach about Sumerian religions. For starters there was no central religion & what we think we know is based on a dead language. I don’t see it beneficial to teach kids about the akunaki (sp?) either. I would just focus on facts over putting too much emphasis on religious context.

Ok, you go believe a story that has no basis in reality then.

Hey Frizzy:

First, there is not “absolute” proof for anything – but since you’re interested – here are some examples
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/12/evolutionexampl/ 

When you say it does not happen in the “world today” – if you are focusing on the word today – of course it does not appear because by definition it occurs over a million years. But if you are looking for an emblematic example there are some – bacterial becoming resistant to antibiotics, the increasing average height of man, the decreasing hair of man, etc. 

Next your premise – “for evolution to have occurred there would have to be a starting point” is questionable. Why is that true? Couldn’t have God  created heaven and earth and then let evolution take it’s course?? Why do you believe that a belief in God and a recognition of evolution are in conflict?

What you don’t get to do – at least in my view – is to automatically insert God as the answer. where you find an absence of science. We’ve killed enough Galileos in our time on this planet.

Finally I would add this. A three-year old ask me if there is a God. I have no answer and neither to do you

 But dont you think its a bad deal for schools to teach that creationism is absolutely wrong and only evolution is correct?  If you want to eliminate teaching anything regarding religions then also eliminate the false teachings of evolution.  AND dont even tell me its Science so it must be right.  Those fools have for years forced hoax after hoax down our throats in pushing the evolution theory.  Even the guy who thought it all up didnt believe it.  The point is, you can not teach one theory to disprove what you refuse to allow being explored.  Talk about stacking the deck.

I don’t think schools should teach the things of God. The exception is the religious school. Evolution is a man’s theory. Like most of science there is no absolute proof. As long as there is no absolute proof, it should only be taught as a theory. The Bible says, Render unto Caesar, the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are Gods. That says to me there should be a separation of church and state.

Will they teach children some of the darker teachings of the Bible such asincest see Gen. 20:12 where Abraham married his half-sister Sarah; Gen. 19:30-38 where Lot’s daughters had intercourse
with him; Gen. 38:16 where Tamar had sex with her father-in-law Judah.
People should become aware that many of today’s incestuous abuses occur in
Christian families and many use Biblical scripture for its justification.

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