More importantly: why is he wasting time even discussing the “plan” of someone who’s best chance to get nominated (forget elected) is if all the other candidates get hit by a bus the day before primaries start?

Hah! The Tea Party is fully of retards. Man, everything Ron Paul does and it gets hijacked by people even more crazier than him. Feel sorry for the guy..

I wonder if liberals will call Chris Wallace racist for asking tough policy questions to a black man.
Or is that just for Obama?

In a couple of months this loon Cain will be back delivering pizza.

Although it looks like Cain isn’t going to recapture the imagination of the American people now that Perry is in the race, I would sure like to see him as America’s next vice president.

He really is the only man/woman who is running simply because he loves his country and wants to give some of what he and his family have been blessed with over the years back.

He knows what it would really take in dealing with the likes of China, India, etc. on a purely monitary/fair trade basis that for once favors the United States of America.

Being a true American patriot/businessman, not a politician means he would not be the least bit shy in getting his way, nor this country’s position across……LOUD & CLEAR…..but in his low even tempured manner.

The 999 plan is only good for pizza’s and the wealthy..of course they don’t eat pizza

And you know that he is retarded because you have taken a look at his plan and then made such a determination?  I am to assume that you have done the math?  Do you even know that he was a chairman of a Federal Reserve Bank, that maybe he just might have a little deeper understanding of finances than you or your messiah BHO…  

It is interesting that you feel sorry for Herman Cain… are you insinuating that you are better educated and more accomplished than he… just what are you saying?  Are you sorry that he is a black man who is not as polished as the POTUS?  He certainly has more accomplishment on his resume than did Obama during the 2008 campaign…  So please tell me just what is it that are you trying to say about Mr. Cain?

I mean, wow.  So under Cain’s plan, the people who already pay the largest percentage of their income under most tax structures – the poor and lower middle class – will now get to shoulder a massive tax increase on the incomes they haven’t seen rise in 40 years?

Talk about class warfare.

the republicans dont want rich people to pay more taxes, they want the poor to pay them
scumbags

Leading economic thinkers my ass!

This all sounds and looks like an awkward parody of the presidential candidates’ field

Leading economic thinkers my ass!

This all sounds and looks like an awkward parody of the presidential candidates’ field

Wisten up wetards: The working poor are taxpayers. They pay directly & thru their employers 15+% on the very first dollars they earn. It’s called FICA: social security & medicare deductions — an income tax by another tricky name. Cut that to 9% (again, all of it paid by the worker — half directly & half IRS-trickily thru the employer), and the working-poor non-income-tax-paying taxpayer gets a tax cut. More money in his or her pocket. Get it?

Well, he may be all that and a bag of chips but he doesn’t know squat about the payroll tax.  Individuals do not pay 15.3% for FICA & Medicare…it’s half of that.  And, since you asked, those are regressive taxes benefiting the top-earners.  Everyone who works pays taxes. 

I like 666 better but 999 will do. Rather pay 9% payoll tax than 15-33%. If I dont want to pay 9% sales tax I just buy less and bank the rest. And all the Po’ who pay no taxes will think twice about buying those $200 Nikes with the 9% sales tax. Maybe they will learn how to save some money.

I like 666 better but 999 will do. Rather pay 9% payoll tax than 15-33%. If I dont want to pay 9% sales tax I just buy less and bank the rest. And all the Po’ who pay no taxes will think twice about buying those $200 Nikes with the 9% sales tax. Maybe they will learn how to save some money.

Has anyone noticed the 999 plan is striking similiar to the number of beast, 666?

All this does is make the poor even poorer and the wealthy pay less.  It’s a regression plan that will make the economy worse. 

Regression is like circumcision and I don’t like that .

Federal income taxes are distinctly different than are state and local taxes. If you are referring to the payroll tax low to moderate earners are scheduled to receive more in benefit than they pay in, so I question the reasoning behind your claim other than it sounds good and serves to justify the fact that 47% of the country pays no federal income tax, the fact is that with the credits available to many folks they receive refund checks which greatly exceed the monies withheld from their checks. 

Cain misspoke about the payroll taxes as the combined contribution is 15.3%, kinda like when the president wanted to visit 58 states or maybe when he made the claim that a surgeon will needlessly amputate your foot so that he will be paid $30,000 to $50,000 by Medicare/Medicad when the actual reimbursement for that procedure is $600.  I would say one of these two gentlemen simply misspoke while the other was telling a blatant lie….  But what can we expect from our presidents these days..  

Hey, if the country is not good enough for the poor and middle class to chip in and save it… why would you think that it is good enough for the wealthy to save it?  It is easy for you demings to buy your votes at the tax payers expense…  as you raise an entitlement class..  My question is have you really projected how this all ends?  Where will the country be after you guys have successfully purchased enough voting blocks that you will never have to concern yourselves with another election?   Just wondering.  

What you don’t understand, is that because of the massive complexities of the current system, most of these super rich people and corporations (ala GE) aren’t paying anything or very much anyway. That is a fact of how the current system works. If we don’t make the system much simpler and throw out the accounting gimmick loopholes, the rich and big corporations will continue to not pay it and will continue to hide their money offshore. Lower rates without the complexity and loopholes should bring the money back so it can be taxed, thus creating more revenue.

Well that’s it. Ole Herm is the Devil’s spawn.

how about if you don’t pay federal income tax and you are age 64 or younger you lose  your right to vote in federal elections?  This way, people that don’t pay income tax during their productive years can’t vote for pandering politicians that steal from the producers and give to the takers to get votes.  

How about them apples?  Equal  opportunity, NOT equal outcomes…that’s what makes America great.  If you want “redistributionism” then move to Cuba, and see how it’s workin’ out  there pal.  

You lefties live in a fantasy world that doesn’t exist. The super rich and the massive corporations aren’t ever going to pay taxes at the proper rate as long as the tax code is used as a political class warfare sledge hammer, slush fund and labyrinth for high paid accountants.

Let’s make it completely simple, and lower the rates so we can get the taxes collected here, instead of sitting offshore in the Caymans or wherever, or hidden in a maze of accounting gimmicks

999 will be the savior of Earth, from 666. Get it? It’s Dittoheaded “God-DUH” logic.

Do you also listen to your Beatles albums backward and hear Satanic messages?

Are you an “inside” joke?

Not sure how you go from my clarifying his statement to me being a “deming”?   Not agreeing with Cain doesn’t necessarily make one a liberal.  And, I’ve read his plan, have you?  It beyond lofty and  completely unsubstantiated.  

Just wondering; if raising taxes on the rich will impede jobs and the economy, what is wrong with the economy now?

I dunno, but I think voting for a fast food mogul–or whatever Cain’s deal is wacked.

I remember when Krispy Kreme donuts’ stock was at $45, and I thought…hmmm? Here’s an economy that highly values a business that is largely detrimental to the health and welfare of the people in this country–unless you work for them and don’t eat their products. A few folks at KK will make money, but the rest of us will have to clean up their mess later. Diabetes, heart disease, etc.

If I invest in KK, I will benefit if people gourge on this garbage, but I’ll end up paying for obesity-related issues later down the road. All of these externalities that we fail to account for…

Fast food is not beneficial to the long term health and welfare of this country.

Fast food is not a sustainable industry.

My view on this I don’t think is liberal or conservative.  I just want the tax to be fair.  My problem with the tax issue is that people who make over 106,000. a year don’t pay any social security tax. But, they get social security when they retire.  Everyone should pay social security tax.  There should be no limit on who pays.  That’s my issue.  I don’t think that’s unfair.

I have actually done the math on his plan using gross GDP numbers and US personal income numbers and there is more to it than an instant dismissal.  

I am not a Cain supporter but you may want to note how this thread started, with someone who probably for no other reason than the fact that they don’t understand 999 combined with the fact that Mr. Cain formerly was the CEO of Godfather’s calling him retarded…  oh, and the fact that he is a republican candidate probably figures in there somewhere.  

Forgive my assumption..  as you are correct, your position other than your concern about a regressive taxing system says nothing that would indicate that you are a liberal.   I am not so sure that I would classify payroll taxes as regressive as the future benefits are returned to the individual tax payer, you may have been talking about Cain’s tax plan I am unclear as to the point you were making when you said that. 

You will get no argument from me that our tax codes are a mess… Congress should be ashamed of itself as an institution that it ever allowed for the tax codes to become what they have become, and our elected politicians should be doubly ashamed of themselves for doing little to correct them.  Our taxing system is broken, and riddled with favor, they do not serve our people well, our country well, or even our economy well yet our politicians lack the political will to address them.  They just keep adding pages upon pages of new code to the 70 some odd pages of the broken system we currently employ in this country.  

I will however stand by the point I was trying to make regarding the large numbers of people not paying any income taxes at all and the large numbers of people who receive earned income credits and childcare credits which have become much like and income based entitlement programs.  There comes a point that in voting what might be best for the country, you are going to be voting against your own personal interest…  This is a dangerous notion, and it is the current status of our tax codes.  

Whats going to bring back money from offshore accounts? Nothing.  The corporate level is at is lowest level in the last 50 years. Creating a sales tax will only hurt the middle class and the poor because they spend most of their money on necessities.  Even Fox thinks it’s a bad idea.  

Your statement about social security taxes is not actual as those the way that tax works is that after $106,000 you are no longer required to pay additional taxes…  but you do pay SSI taxes on the first $106,000 of your earnings…  that number will probably have to be increased to save the Trust Fund, but to raise it to an indefinite number is a rather hefty tax on the high earners as for a self-employed person it would amount to an additional 15.3 % in taxes on earnings over the current $106,000 cut off.  If you combine that with the expected rise in marginal rates you are hitting these people very hard as Obama is already proposing an additional 9% increase on income for upper earners.  The net result would be a 24% increase for those people.  That is considerable…  Why are we not asking Washington what they are doing about waste in the Federal budgets….  there is more money available in savings from waste and duplication of programs than there is in increasing taxes…  Why is it that congress does not feel that it owes the American people an efficient budget free of graft and waste?  Would it not be more honest to correct those problems before asking tax payers to pay more?

Racist.

Herman Cain’s time as the token black Republican is now over.  No one is captivated by that anymore.  All he has to run on is his business record during the 1990s when every business was running well.  Fact is that he has no record in government to back up what he says.  That’s why he supported TARP and opposed Federal Reserve audits while on radio and now he’s acting like he never said that.  I really don’t see why anyone would support him unless they want to see the Republicans nominate an African-America, which is obviously not going to happen.

Because he keeps hyping himself as a problem solver.  If he he just talks without presenting a plan, he really doesn’t even have that going for him.

Redneck

 He said “loon” not “coon” you illiterate.

You may want to reconsider your words…  I know that the Fed is Quasi government, it does however show an understanding of both the workings of our economy and our government….  I mean how hard is it to do a simple search before making such strong statements void of fact.  From Wiki..

“deputy chairman (1992–94) and chairman (1995–96) of the board of directors to the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. Before his business and economics career he worked as a mathematician in ballistics for the United States Navy.”

@Fedup, a self-employed individual does not pay 15.3% regardless of the net amount on Schedule C.  Please see 1040 line 27.    My statement before about FICA being a regressive tax is true as the more you make, beyond 106.8K that is, the less of a percentage your tax becomes.  An earner making $300K/yr only pays 1.5% in FICA versus an earner making $50K paying the full 4.2%.  The other component to the payroll w/h has no cutoff.  

Doesn’t matter, lacky.

Spare me. I love how liberals assume that a black republican is a token (or, more commonly, an Uncle Tom). All Cain has to run on in his business record? I would say that’s preferable to having been a community organizer. Barry O began his presidential campaign after a mere 108 undistinguished days in the US Senate.

This from a Texan with an avatar of Osama Bin Laden

Thats believeable

He is a creep and a stalker,

your a sick asshole!

dont worry herman, wallace will be forced to apologize to you in no time.

Dandkenton..

I still can’t agree with you that payroll taxes are regressive as they are more akin to a retirement savings program and disability insurance.  Just the fact that your benefits when you retire are based on your contributions during your working years.   

“Under the SE Tax Act, self-employed people are responsible for the entire percentage of 15.3% (= 12.4% [Soc. Sec.] + 2.9% [Medicare]); however, the 15.3% multiplier is applied to 92.35% of the business’s net earnings from self-employment, rather than 100% of the gross earnings; the difference, 7.65%, is half of the 15.3%, and makes the calculation fair in comparison to that of regular (non-self-employed) employees. It does this by adjusting for the fact that employees’ 7.65% share of their SE tax is multiplied against a number (their gross income) that does not include the putative “employer’s half” of the self-employment tax. In other words, it makes the calculation fair because employees don’t get taxed on their employers’ contribution of the second half of FICA, therefore self-employed people shouldn’t get taxed on the second half of the self-employment tax. Similarly, self-employed people also deduct half of their self-employment tax (schedule SE) from their gross income on the way to arriving at their adjusted gross income (AGI). This levels the amount paid by self-employed persons in comparison to regular employees, who don’t pay general income tax on their employers’ contribution of the second half of FICA, just as they didn’t pay FICA tax on it either.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Insurance_Contributions_Act_tax

It’s Osama Bin Olbermann, cakes, and you know it. Apparently you haven’t seen “dre’s” avatar of Bush in a beard and turban? Don’t bother responding, loser.

Sez the actual stalker.

So your using two user ids? Your the asshole stalker ?

IVE DONE THAT. NO SHIT!

“Your the asshole stalker ”

Go back to school, dummy.

999 is phase 1 of the Fair Tax plan.

As I explained many times, the Fair Tax will harm millions of seniors on SS. Unless their expenditures are less than 904.35 per month, the prebate will not cover the 23% tax on all goods and services. My expenditures are 1525.00 per month and the tax will be approx 350.00 per month, less the 208.00 prebate, giving me a loss of 142.00 per month. Under the 999 plan, my taxes will be 137.25. Since a single person on SS with income of 25,000 or less pays no income tax, a tax of 350.00 per month, less the 208.00 prebate, or 137.25 under 999 plan replaces a zero tax I’m required to pay now. The other thing I’ve mentioned on here more than once is the fair tax plan assumes a single person can live at half the cost of a couple, and that isn’t so. The rent and utilities are not double that of a single person. The couple receives double that of a single person less 1 dollar, but share the cost of rent and utilities.

You are partly right. You directly do pay only 7.65 percent but the employer payes the rest which is a cost that “someone ” has to pay from somewhere. I am self employeed and I do pay the entire 15.3.

So we should adopt a set of laws based around the premise that ‘Whatever Tim Tebow disapproves of, we should tax into oblivion and destroy’?

Sorry about all those people who work in the fast food industry.  Tim Tebow has spoken, and you can all just die please.

Also sorry about all you people who want the freedom to choose what you would like to eat.  Tim Tebow knows better than you do what you should be allowed to eat.  So you can all just starve to death.

Hey Tim, should we round them all up and put them in concentration camps too?  Those nasty evil fast food producers, and consumers.  They don’t know what’s good for them, but thank heavens we’ve got Tim Tebow to tell us all what to do.

Boy was I wrong.  Here I thought what made a sustainable industry depended on what people were willing to buy.  No, apparently what makes a sustainable industry has nothing at all to do with how well run a company is or how desirable the product is to customers, in fact it’s all about Tim Tebow’s wants and desires; he’s been appointed by God to judge us all.

Thank heaven that Tim Tebow and Michelle Obama were sent to save us from our nasty eating habits, and to rescue all of the fast food industry from the awfulness of having a job and a paycheck.

Might I suggest that you would appear less racist, and your comments might be taken more seriously, if you weren’t referring to black people as ‘token blacks’.  As it is, I think many are simply skipping past your comment in disgust at your obvious hatred of other races, and none of your arguments are actually being considered, regardless of how logical they may be.

Of course, not there’s any real logic to your arguments either, but it seems a shame that your racism should so dominate your tone that no one wants to even bother debating any of your points.

My thoughts on
Herman Cain and his 999 is;”the road to hell is paved with good
intentions”. He sounds like a used car salesman I would gently move away
from him as quickly as possible.

@ Anon – Can you produce one logical reason why anyone should pay higher or lesser taxes than another?  I’ve never understood why some individuals think those with higher income should pay more than someone with lower income.  Why shouldn’t everyone pay the same?  I’m not wealthy by any means.  I’m single, make 48k, rent, and live paycheck to paycheck. But I live within my means & I am proud of what I worked to achieve. Essentially penalizing someone because they are successful is wrong.  Why shouldn’t everyone pay the same?  Do we all not use the same things the money we pay in taxes, funds?

You obviously don’t understand economics – and that poor people do not pay any taxes.  Get an education, please.

if he paid less taxes MAYBE he could get an education

Daniel I agree. Wallace’s point is valid according to his own perspective. Cains plan has a fixed percentage everyone pays. If you make 20K/year you pay 9% if you make 120K/year you pay 9%. At 20K your only paying $1800 at 120K your paying $10800. That IS income adjusted. Many of our problems are due to people not having a stake in them. If it costs someone nothing and they get a benefit how many are going to vote for it? Probably most. We have 45% or so paying nothing and having nothing at stake accept what they can receive. How do you get a responsible decision with nearly half only exposed to half the equation? You can’t and that is why we are facing huge deficits. I too am proud of the work I do. I will minimize my tax when I have the chance but, be fine with paying it if I know  it won’t be squandered on 45% that want to find ways to just steer into themselves or elect politicians that will do it for them. 

You are working off of faulty information. People pay social security tax on their earnings up to 106,000. Income over that point  income is not taxed because SS was intended to be a retirement supplement or safety net not a revenue source. Since you would not be payed back from the system in it’s original form any more than tax on the 106,000 would accumulate to there was no need to tax additional income. PLEASE do not vote for candidates on issues like this unless you know what your voting for.

I was self-employed and if you look at your own tax return, you get a deduction of half of the 15.3 in schedule C.  I don’t know why anyone isn’t worried about the sales tax of 9%  Add that to your local sales tax and state sales tax, you could be paying close to 18% in places like AZ.  This tax will absolutely crush sales on everything but maybe food if that is exempted as food is generally not taxed. $9 for every $100 you spend will crush the retail sector resulting in a retail crash.  Imagine buying a car with a nearly 20% total sales tax under this plan.  I will get moans about what should be taxed like cigarattes and that should be alcohol (the killer of thousands of innocent people on the road, including my family 10 years ago)  At least cigarettes and new public laws only kills the user, but alcohol kills other people who are innocent.  Tax that and the consumption tax on it will raise alot of money.  Why the poison of cigarettes gets taxed and the poison of alcohol doesn’t to that extreme is messed up.

About as similar as your face and my ass……….Jerk

GE actually paid significant taxes in 2010 for previous years and $1 billion in state, local and other taxes. The tax rate was low in 2010 because they lost $32 billion in their financial services business during the global financial crisis. This was not a tax avoidance strategy, it was a business loss. Even so, GE remains in favor of comprehensive tax reform, reform which eliminates loopholes and establishes a territorial system like the rest of the world. GE would welcome the opportunity to focus on making things the world needs and not on complying with the Byzantine tax structure as it exists. GE plays by the rules. GE plays to compete, to create jobs, and to solve the world’s toughest problems. That’s the real GE.GE plays by the rules. GE plays to compete, to create jobs, and to solve the world’s toughest problems. That’s the real GE.

lillyluminatus- You need to re-think what your saying! He wants to get rid of the other Taxes. One equal tax for all. If you make 40000 a year you pay only $3600. If you make 100,000 you pay $9000. The less you earn the less tax you will pay. The more you earn means you pay more. It’s common sense math. Would stop all these free loaders who abuse the benefits our country has to offer. Maybe your the type who is looking for a Hand out? 

lillyluminatus- You need to re-think what your saying! He wants to get rid of the other Taxes. One equal tax for all. If you make 40000 a year you pay only $3600. If you make 100,000 you pay $9000. The less you earn the less tax you will pay. The more you earn means you pay more. It’s common sense math. Would stop all these free loaders who abuse the benefits our country has to offer. Maybe your the type who is looking for a Hand out? 

Would you care to prove your statement? 

Hah! Suck it jalmos! Who won the Florida Straw Poll today, hmmm? And George W. Perry can go get a job selling mopeds in San Antonio.

How do you beat Obama in 2012?  With a CAIN!  Herman Cain is the media’s worst nightmare, and after today’s polling in Florida, he is coming for you Mr. Obama.  Cain for President 2012!

I agree!  Everyone needs to have skin in the game.  It seems fair to set the same percentage tax rate for everyone.  On a side note, it gets very confusing reading all of these comments with different perspectives   using varying statistics. It reminds me of MLB fans using all kinds of individual and team statistics to prove a point.

Where have I heard 999 before. Now I remember! He must have ripped the idea from dominoes 999 deal any pizza any size. You crafty fellow Cain, I believe it would work better as a method for selling pizza though.

Having a federal
sales tax is a terrible idea!  This will
give those greedy bustards the ability to raise the sales tax any time they
want and they won’t have to tell us about it. Congress has raised our taxes
almost every year even when they call it a cut. Now we are being asked to give
them the power to tax our food every month! That is crazy, you cannot trust
those greedy bastards.  They will keep
telling us, “Oh it’s only a penny.” or “It’s only half a penny.” But they will
leave out that it is a on every dime not on every dollar.  Then in two years they will tell us that the
rich aren’t paying their fare share because they aren’t buying enough stuff. Because
of that they have to bring back the income tax to make them pay. This is a
short sighted idea.  If you want to make
things fare then make everyone pay 12.5% on every dollar earned outside of
investments (that income is taxed at 25% now) and close all those loop holes.
Then Warren Buffet won’t be able to be a tax dodger and he will pay more than
his secretary.

Before for congress cuts
anymore services they need to cut their own pay. Harry Reid is getting $400,000
a year! Cut him back to $200,000 is crazy to pay such a bad, dishonest person
that much. And stop sending our money overseas until we get our debt paid.

I’ve been looking for detailed analysis of how the taxes would add up in two ways.

First, would this be “neutral” as Cain claims? By neutral, he means that the total revenue to the federal government would not increase of decrease. In other words, it keeps the Grover Norquist pledge of not increasing total taxes. As Cain says, a person good with math and having the time can check this out.

Second, I’m just plain suspicious of something that can be expressed in such a simple way, 999 sounds too much like a political slogan and not enough like a carefully developed plan that might come out a 9-5-12. That might be a better economic idea, but it just wouldn’t be catchy and memorable. My point is that at least one of those 9s must be fudged to make it “catch on.” The fact that Cain doesn’t name an economist who is willing to attach his name to it tells me my gut is right on this one.

I do NOT like the idea of a national sales tax, especially if it taxes the basics, like food and clothing. I also do not like Cain’s claim that the government should “punish bad spending.” I know that is what “sin” taxes (alcohol and tobacco) do, but Cain is taking it to a tax on a (personal) fishing boat, and a higher tax on a (personal) yacht. Buying a boat is bad spending according to Cain’s government? Cain thinks people should put that money into savings. That is HIS decision. So much for a less intrusive government, and he loses votes from boat makers for starters.

I still think it could be Cain.  I think Cain-Gingritch, Cain-Santorum.  I mean can anybody really vote for Romnicare the father of obamacare, and Perry I want legal Tax Payers paying for illegals education. Im sending my kids to mexichiand have them sneak into texas and beg for free colledge tuition. They both need to be done. How can the tea party and any sensible conservative Republican or Blue dog democrat vote for them.  I think Gingritch has the experiance to help Cain work through the bullcrap of goverment.
Santorum would also be a good running mate.

Well, we all know what straw polls mean. Just ask President Bachma…oh, right.

No ron paul is the only real candidate fighting for this country but you neocon warmongers that believe everything and everyone is out to get us when the fact is we are over seas starting up shit! You better look at our government policys before you look at others! Why are soo many people so naive when it comes to the military industrial complex??? Tell me you so called educated fools? Paul doesnt want you to pay any tax to the corrupt unconstitutional federal reserve! But you poor fools argue over how much money from ur hard earned labor should you keep! God bless us!

Who among us does not believe the government and unions are the cause of US manufacturing going to other, mostly third world, countries. The government of course is the biggest factor with taxes and regulations. However, unreasonable demands by unions play a large part as well but that is a topic for another time.

The primary function of any corporation is profit. That is obvious. There is no other motivational force. Both taxes and regulations take away from the profit. We all realize some regulations are necessary but over regulation is unproductive at best. Dealing with regulations is nearly as costly for many corporations as taxes, however taxes are the main destructor of corporate profit. The United States corporate tax structure is the biggest detriment to “jobs production” bar none! Furthermore, the tax structure is the main thing that motivates corporations to leave this country and creates high unemployment.

If we were to change our taxation system from an income bases, which has a tendency to cause class warfare along with a multitude of other problems including depressing the economy. To a consumption bases, which would increase as the economy grows stronger. The only motivation would be for politicians to want the economy to grow (wouldn’t that be a change). There would never be a need to do anything except work to increase prosperity because prosperity would increase revenue for all governments, Federal, State and local. Everyone knows people who make more spend more.

Why is it somewhere between 40 and 50 percent of our population currently pays no income tax at all even though we are on an income basis for taxation. Of course in reality we all know why, to buy votes for a specific party and to keep that same party in power by creating dependency. Not only do they not pay taxes but they are given a check which amounts to wealth redistribution similar to welfare. Wealth redistribution is one of the things that has gotten us near the edge of collapse. More wealth redistribution cannot repair the problem because it itself is a major problem. Perhaps that is the primary cause of the majority of financial problems in the US today. What exactly does “paying their fair share” mean? Or is it just a class warfare catch phrase.

We Americans have, for many years, lead the world with ideas and foresight so should we not take the lead now with a new tax system? One that is fairer to everyone. As simple as this may seem it could change the whole world. Since it does seem we are going to be taxed forever, it is easy to see we must move from an income tax to a ” strictly limited” consumption tax of some kind. A fair tax or flat tax that is based on consumption and not income, we must make the change for many reasons. But it must be limited forever, and unchangeable except by a two thirds vote of both houses. That is the only assurance a party controlling both houses like we just witnessed with The Liberal Progressive Democrats, does not have the power to singly change it.

In any case the IRS would not totally be done away with, with a fair tax, but reduced to perhaps 10% of its current size because it would only oversee the collection of funds from the collector (probably the states since they are already set up to collect sales taxes).  　

The current 9-9-9 system proposed by Herman Cain is probably not a good strategy. Since it does retain some income base taxation (although not progressive, now) it may only add to the problems not correct the problems. Also, consider when the current income tax was suggested it was promoted as never surpassing 3%. Looking back, that’s nearly laughable now. At one time the top rate was over 90%. Who was so naive as to think 3% would be a ceiling without it being an unchangeable law (changeable only by ratification of 2/3′rds of the states) within the constitution itself. In any case his system could cause more problems than it solves and keeps the IRS at its present strength. I personally like Herman Cain, but he was not my first choice. However, I will support him if he is the nominee, as I urge others to do. But the 9-9-9 taxation system should be reviewed throughly.

It seems it depends on who you talk to just how large and out of hand the current tax system has gotten. It is possible to get estimates from 25000 pages to over a million pages. Even in this “computer age” is something so large really comprehendible? So why should it not be totally scraped and we start over with something that promotes growth and get rid of something that curtails growth. After all, consider we have more experience now on how to do these things and therefore it should be “relatively” less difficult then when we originally devised the progressive income tax.

It is true there are many details to be worked out but if we started working on it in a bipartisan way it could be worked out perhaps in a year. Just think what a difference a year could make! Changing the current tax system may not cure all our ills immediately, but it is a start that could very well take the United States out of a terribly declining period and place it firmly into a growth period like never seen before. Is it not at least worth study and consideration?

Herman Cain’s 999 Tax Plan calls for the following:

9% Corporate Tax

9% Income Tax

9% National Sales Tax

When you add a new 9% National Sales Tax to the various
State Sales Taxes

this means the net sales in most states becomes a massive
sales tax, for example:

Texas Sales Tax = 8% + 9%
Herman Cain Tax = 17% Sales Tax in Texas

New Jersey
Sales Tax = 7% + 9% Herman Cain Tax = 16%
Sales Tax in NJ

South Carolina
Sales Tax = 9% + 9% Herman Cain Tax = 18%
Sales Tax in SC

Idaho Sales Tax = 6% + 9%
Herman Cain Tax = 15% Sales Tax in Idaho

Or does Mr. Cain expect the states to eliminate their sales
taxes, which would destroy their already insolvent balance sheets.

Either way, seems to mean this plan either bankrupts the
citizens or bankrupts the states. Am I missing something? Have any of the
debate moderators asked Mr. Cain about this?

Herman Cain is a master prince Hall freemason and will bring about the “Mark of Cain”, or the 666 plan in the future…….

my @$$.   u know NOTHING about which you speak. 

Student loans are readily available. 

Hmmm … retards with Ph.D’s.  ??    People who’ve jumped through all the liberal university hoops?  Retards?  LMAO.  You know nothing about which you speak. 

Something else to think about — Cain’s 999 plan ‘virtually eliminates the IRS as we know it’ (verbiage taken from his website).  In practical terms, his simplified plan means I wouldn’t have to shell out so much damn money to my CPA each year to hunt and peck through the tax codes looking for ways to save me money. That, in itself, would be a huge financial relief to me (a small business owner), and I’d be able to offer some of that $$ to my employees in the form of pay increases. 

Something else to think about — Cain’s 999 plan ‘virtually eliminates the IRS as we know it’ (verbiage taken from his website).  In practical terms, his simplified plan means I wouldn’t have to shell out so much damn money to my CPA each year to hunt and peck through the tax codes looking for ways to save me money. That, in itself, would be a huge financial relief to me (a small business owner), and I’d be able to offer some of that $$ to my employees in the form of pay increases. 

and this adds to the conversation how?

Amen to that, my man!

You’re absolutely right. Warren Buffet will never pay those ridiculously high rates anyway.

I feel ya. Paul is the ONLY republican candidate I like. Well Cain is OK too. And did you see that debate when the question came up as to why we were attacked on 9-11? Ron was the only one with the correct reasoning, but got a few boos from the audience. I am in the Army, and I have always admired Ron Paul. But because he’s not as articulate with his words as the more polished candidates, he won’t get the nomination.

I’ve been reading many of your comments on this thread. And my comment may not be of any use to anyone reading this, but I’m just in a comical mood right now. Think of Jack Nicholson’s voice (fom the ’87 Batman movie)…
“This town (country) needs an enema!”

If you live paycheck to paycheck at 48 thousand a year, imagine how hard it is for the folks out there who make 25 or 30 thousand a year. Then imagine someone coming along and telling you that they are going to take 9% in taxes, and you are going to have to pay an additional 9% sales tax. It is of little impact to the person who makes more money because it would be a reduction in their taxes, and they don’t spend everything they make just to get by, thereby enabling them to skip the 9% sales tax on everything they are able to save. The poor guy will get taxed on every thing becaus they have to spend it all just to get by. So in essence the poorer you are, and the less you can save, the harder you will be hit, and the richer you are and the more you can save, the easier your tax burden will be.

The issue isn’t the 9% payroll tax, it’s the sales tax, which will place an unfair burden on those who make less and have to spend it all to survive, versus those who make more and don’t have to spend their entire paycheck on neccesities.

And he is an expert in math. Give me a break! It doesn’t require a rocket scientist to figure out that low and middle income people will  pay more taxes. High income people should pay their fair share. in percentages. 

With this plan Obama will chew him in a debate, for sure.

Yeah, I agree with the flat tax aspect of it.  But a 9% sales tax on top of local sales taxes would be very detrimental. 

I think the idea is ok except for the 9% sales tax part.  If you take a 9% sales tax and tack on local and state sales taxes, you would end up paying substantially more for goods, which will be counterproductive in its efforts to stimulate the economy.  People would end up with less money in the long run due to increased costs of living, and businesses would hurt more due to a decreased demand for more expensive products.  

Can Anyone tell me if a person will also have to FICA in addition to the 9% income tax.

Poor people do pay taxes–even if they don’t pay income taxes they pay Social Security, Medicare, and sales taxes.

poor=’s little or no income.  9% of zero is ?

while there are certainly “free loaders” in this country who do abuse the system, the majority of people who are not paying federal income taxes are: the poor, the unemployed and the retired (who live entirely on ss benefits and maybe a small savings account.)  These people are not “free loaders” as many of them have contributed many thousands of dollars in support of our country through our federal tax system. Giving people labels is harmful and not doing anything to help in this time of crisis. With that said, forcing these people to pay 18% more of their almost non-existent income is just as unfair as giving the wealthy more tax breaks.  

For those of you who still believe that those at the “top” of the  economic ladder made it fair and square by the sweat of thier brow are simply idiots!  Perhaps 10% have made it that way, the rest are simply “brothers’ in secret society’s with secrets…and sear oaths of alligence to eachother, and to the demands of the fraternity.
The entire monetary sytem is set up to enslave the masses, while paying them for labor and taxing it back from them, as even the poorest pay taxes for everything from gasoline, to chewing gum! 
The SYSTEM was built to benefit the few…the “brother’s”, the genetic cesspools of inbred families that have ruled by the inception of a inhuman Monetary System, and the use of ancient  scientific mind control techniques that keep us all in the dark… the ”masses’ of us are simply  thier chattel!  Best be aware that the herd is about to be culled….democracy and freedom are an illusion, we have all been Hoodwinked!

no. The 9-9-9 plan does away with FICA.

Are you sure?

I assume you are not stupid enough to fall for the my-half, the employers-half gimmick.   In fact your employer pays ALL of your social security and medicare payments (have you sent any money in?)

In fact productive people must EARN all of the costs of their employment or they will be let go.  That means they pay both halves, even it they never write the check

Of course this doesn’t apply to government employees does it

Are you sure?

I assume you are not stupid enough to fall for the my-half, the employers-half gimmick.   In fact your employer pays ALL of your social security and medicare payments (have you sent any money in?)

In fact productive people must EARN all of the costs of their employment or they will be let go.  That means they pay both halves, even it they never write the check

Of course this doesn’t apply to government employees does it

Very simple  People with higher incomes have the ability to pay more then lower inome people. A person making $20,000 can not even afford the basics much less 9% income tax and another 9% sales tax.  A peson making $200,000 would not have any real change in their ability to live with a 9% income tax and 9% sales tax. This plan will end up reducing the overall taxes paid by the ultra wealthy and make it imposible for the low income Americans to live!  ALSO WHAT IS THE OVERALL IMPACT IN TAX REVENUE?  IF IT CUTS TOTAL REVENUE WE GO FURTHER INTO DEFICIT. IF IT PRODUCES THE SAME REVENUE WE HAVE NOT HELPED REDUCE THE DEFICIT! 

It’s called flat tax and was introduced into Congress nearly 30 years ago. Clearly our law maker don’t think the 45% of American who don’t pay income tax should have to. It’s much easier to increase the tax on the rich instead of replacing the current system. Unfortunate huh.

Take a look at Fair Tax (H.R. 25). It eliminates all income tax and with it the 22% embedded taxes on consumer product. In return, a national sale tax of 23% on all goods sold. The increase is about 1% (pennies extra for a gallon of milk) and the plan offers a monthly pre-bate for all house holds to use on basic necessities. Low income families will not suffer additional revenue loss due to Fair Tax.

Take a look at Fair Tax (H.R. 25). It eliminates all income tax and with it the 22% embedded taxes on consumer product. In return, a national sale tax of 23% on all goods sold. The increase is about 1% (pennies extra for a gallon of milk) and the plan offers a monthly pre-bate for all house holds to use on basic necessities. Low income families will not suffer additional revenue loss due to Fair Tax.

For simplicity’s sake, let’s consider a 10% flat tax. Who is going to miss that 10% more, the guy making $250k per year or the one making $25k per year? You’re assuming the success of the wealthy is purely due to their own hard work—the wealthier someone is, the more they have benefitted from the system that has allowed that wealth. These “job creators” expect a healthy, educated workforce, a sound infrastructure, and the protections offered by civil servants—they should help pay for them.

The wealthy (individuals and corporations) don’t pay a living wage to that “45%”  They earn so little, they end up receiving what they paid, back.

Herman Cain 999 tax plan analysis on $50,000 income family of 4
999 Plan$50,000    Gross Income$ 4,500    9% tax$45,500    Net Income$ 2,457    9% federal tax on purchases, assuming they spent 60% of net income on taxable purchases$43,043    Income available after taxes
Current tax system – Family of 4$50,000    Gross Income$11,400    Standard deduction$14,600    Exemptions – 4 @ $3,650$24,000    Net Income$ 2,760    Federal tax from 2010 tax tables$47,240    Income available after taxes
Increase in taxes by $4,197 (152% increase)
Current tax system – Family of 2$50,000    Gross Income$11,400    Standard deduction$ 7,300    Exemptions – 2 @ $3,650$31,300    Net Income$ 3,861    Federal tax from 2010 tax tables$46,139    Income available after taxes
Increase in taxes by $3,096 (80% increase)

No adjustments to income – Health Savings Account, Moving expense, IRA deduction, Student loan interest deductionNo Credits – Child care – Education – Child tax credit ($2,000) – Making work pay credit – Retirement account credit
Adjustments and credits in some instances can reduce or eliminate any tax burden on a young family of 4.

Poor people pay lots of taxes.  If they work at all they pay SS payroll taxes and medicare taxes.  They pay sales taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes, school taxes. excise taxes and many other taxes that are not very apparent.

I heard that if the rich paid in on all their income that the limit on what they now get would increase drastically. I heard that would bankrupt SS. It does seem right that they should have to pay more. But if they did and got their share of what they put in it might not help, but hurt, the system.

Also, states that have no sales at all would now have a 9% sales tax and states like New York would have an additional 9% slapped on to the existing 8.38%. 17+% saes tax??   No thanks.

YOU MUST BE KIDDING,RIGHT?  YOU REALLY WANT SOME POOR GUY MAKING 20 K PAYING 1800 DOLLARS SO HE HAS SKIN IN THE GAME?  SO HE KNOWS WHAT ITS LIKE.  YOU SHOULD HAVE TO LIVE ON 20 K A YEAR SO YOU KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE POOR.  ALL YOU WANT IS A BETTER DEAL FOR YOU. JUST BE HONEST.  The modern right winger is engaged in one of man’s
oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for
 selfishness.”

One will have to define poor. If my income is $40K/yr & I must pay for my own healthcare ($900/mo this yr – but I prefer it to Medicare) & have another $500/mo in copays & other medical expenses my adjusted income is actually abt $23 – $24k. Even if I don’t pay taxes on my income, but have 9% added to all my purchases atop the TX state tax of 8.25% – that’s a 17% tax on everything that already has many hidden taxes. I paid into SS & everything else & most of my income comes from a private disability insurance policy rather than SSD but this system has the potential to make it impossible for me to afford healthcare, food, medicine, clothing – all the basics. I worked very hard so that if I became ill, I would not be a burden on the country but there are those in the country who want to force me not only to be a burden but to be unable to care for myself. It’s the equivalent of consigning the disabled & elderly to death camps. I’ve already paid for a stake in this country & most of those who receive SS have as well. Now, we simply want to care for ourselves, focus on our health &/or enjoying our last years because that’s what we paid for.

This is a 9-9-9-9 plan… Cain says he eliminates social security and medicare taxes… but he actually  just brings it down to 9% (from 15% when you take both employee and employer portions). He does this by making wages not deductible to businesses, meaning they pay a 9% tax on all wages. The employer passes this tax on to employees (if they didn’t have to pay it, then the 9% would be included in the wages to the employee).

So we would pay 9% on income, after being taxed 9% indirectly through the employer, then with what is left we pay 9% on all new items purchased. I don’t know what Cain’s “analysts” are smoking, but this would definitely increase my taxes as a middle class American.

Maybe his analysts are the same people who came up with TARP, which Cain supported wholeheartedly.

I make 24k a year and I pay more than 1800 more like 2800$ my tax rate I think stands around 15% and like i said I make 24k a year just like the poor folks who get SSI, food stamps, WIC, get their bills paid for them and so on and so on. Only I don’t get a dime from the Government dole and I’m proud of it. Survival of the fittest baby, you libs love that darwinism stuff huh? You guys darn sure are christians and don’t believe in the Bible, so you should fully stand behind if you can’t make it in life you die like the Dodo! If you don’t pay any taxes you worthless anyhow. Livin on the dole, aint that the life.

Thats just stupid anybody who is wealthy are the people who ARE PAYING for all that stuff!! When their income is taxed anywhere from 35 to 50% In lay terms for you who don’t under stand they only get to keep half as much as they earn. People who make 250k a year spend most that money they are not hoarding it. they spend it for other people to have jobs like busboys, waitresses, landscapers, car wash attendants, gum scrappers, janitors, tons of money spent in the economy. Not to mention they pay an entire years worth of wages for a police officer or firefighters, the civil servants you speak of would not have a job if it wasn’t for the wealthy. And they pay for the degenerate people watching Judge Judy eating ice cream and opening up there legs once a year to pop another kid out so they can live on the dole too. Get some sense people. The strong survive and the weak parish. Get out there and get yours, quit trying being a parasite to the wealthy.

Everyone gets jumpy don’t they when someone suggests that the some odd 40%+ Americans that currently pay little to no taxes, start paying.  Get skin in the game!

The point most people are missing is that Herman Cain’s 999 plan will benefit the lower income people more. Let me explain. We now have a much higher income tax on the wealthy and most corporations that produce the products in the market pay a higher income tax than 9%. When a final product goes to market many corporations are involved in production. The higher tax is passed on in higher prices in the product in all stages of production. In today’s market a product that sells for $100 has an average of 22% of what I call a hidden tax passed on to the final consumer. Under Cain’s plan, because of the competitive market, thanks to free enterprise, that same product that cost $100 today will go down to $78 because of the lower income tax rate. Now add a 9% sales tax and we have a final price of $85.02. A benefit of almost $15 for the consumer. Yes the poor paid a 9% tax they didn’t pay before, buy actually they did pay a higher hidden tax when they made their purchase under the current tax code. Include the lower S.S. tax and the lower cost of computing taxes then it’s clear to see that Herman Cain’s 999 plan is a win win for all.

    I love Herman Cain’s bold approach and his no-nonsense way of explaining things.  I believe that he would make a terrific President.   But, as a retired senior citizen living off my social security income and somewhat meager savings, I can’t buy the 9-9-9 plan.  I’m not an economist or a tax expert but I see my taxes going Way Up from where they are now, for the following reason:
    My income will be taxed at 9%.  When I buy something, the manufacturer and  the distributor, and the retailer  who have also been taxed at 9% will all have raised their prices (passing on the cost to the consumer) by 9%, and finally I will have to pay the 9% National Sales Tax.  So in my mind I am paying 36% in taxes for everything that I purchase, instead of the 14% tax bracket that I have been in heretofore. 
    Can you not see that Mr. Cain’s plan for the economy is to inflate prices through levels of taxation, rather than printing money or creating loans and credit out of thin air?

Sounds like someone is living beyond their means.  Get another job and quit complaining!

The man is disgusting and formless.
 

I paid taxes for nearly 50 years, I am on a tiny fixed income now—SS disabilty–and now Mr Cain wants me to pay, between Fed and State 15% for everything I buy!!!   I am VERY responsible with my small income, and it is insultive he says I need to be more careful with my money!!!  I owe NO ONE !  He had my vote until he pulled this nasty trick!!