Yes, we are on the verge of collapse ..because of greedy Wall Street brokers, selfish CEOs and a political party that prostitutes themselves for these guys. The GOP.

What a shame my Trabant is on blocks in a garage in Niedersachsen.

It’s obvious from his remarks that his son, Rand, didn’t fall far from the nut tree.. Ron Paul is just one more idiot who hopes for America to fail, thinks Revelations wouldl be fun and that he’ll watch it all on Fox from the comfort of his living room.

Collapse, revolution… The radical right fringe are no conservatives… They are radicals of the worst order.

Should a bunch of tea party AHs be in charge of what the constitution means?

Alexander Hamilton stated, about the power of interpretation of the law, “The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution, is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning.”

ksecus said:
Yes, we are on the verge of collapse ..because of greedy Wall Street brokers, selfish CEOs and a political party that prostitutes themselves for these guys. The GOP.

oh yeah, Democrats got nothin to do with this shit………right.

Let’s see Patriot Act still up and running? Yep.

Todays Congress carrying on the old ways of spending like drunkin’ sailors? No doubt about it.

Obama following in the footsteps of his Neo-Con buddies Bush, Cheney, Clinton & Bush? Seems I’ve heard that song before.

selfish CEOs????? Oh! you wouldn’t mean someone like Jeff Imelt would you? The CEO of General Electric? The General Electric that got fined around 75 million all total in the past two years?

Jeff Imelt? Who was selected ‘Worst CEO of 2008′ that just happens to be on Obama’s Economic Advisory Panel?

I can’t see where the crazy old fool Ron Paul is coming up with idea we’re going broke, Hope & Change is here!!!! Now go get your kool-aid that you brought with your food stamp money.

The Real Royal King said:
What a shame my Trabant is on blocks in a garage in Niedersachsen.

More like your VW Bus on blocks in Haight Ashbury.

puck30 said:
Todays Congress carrying on the old ways of spending like drunkin’ sailors?

Since much of the spending has been done is response to the collapse of the economy, please give me your detailed projections as to where we would be with spending and the deficit if the economy hadn’t collapsed.

Spot on!

The Big Ed “RED” Rally Mess awakened even more American voters!

Obama and the other Marxists/Communists/Socialists are trying to NUDGE us by using the Cloward-Pivens tactic of collapsing the system!

We ain’t gonna let it happen!

Got it? GOOD!

Greg said:
Collapse, revolution… The radical right fringe are no conservatives… They are radicals of the worst order.

And you ain’t seen nothing YET!

Bill Adkins said:
Ron Paul is just one more idiot who hopes for America to fail

Ron Paul never hoped for America to fail, but when an idiot comes on here and runs his mouth let’s see how smart he is shall we?

Could you tell us Mr. Know-It-All how today’s Democratic Policies along with the Obama Administration is creating massive amount of jobs, cutting welfare rolls, bringing the endless war to an end?

And balancing the budget along with Unicorns and Moonbeams in every pot.

juan said:
And you ain’t seen nothing YET!

Juan,

Not sure what you mean by that… you seem eager for a dust-up… not sure that would work out well for folks of your ideological persuasion… our country is stronger than you radicals imagine and sanity and sense will keep our union strong.

puck30 said:
Ron Paul never hoped for America to fail, but when an idiot comes on here and runs his mouth let’s see how smart he is shall we? Could you tell us Mr. Know-It-All how today’s Democratic Policies along with the Obama Administration is creating massive amount of jobs, cutting welfare rolls, bringing the endless war to an end? And balancing the budget along with Unicorns and Moonbeams in every pot.

When an idiot coes on here and runs his mouth we call that idiot puck30. My plan is as secret as Rand Paul’s plan to balance the budget.

Fox News: We proudly pander to Teabaggers said:
Since much of the spending has been done is response to the collapse of the economy, please give me your detailed projections as to where we would be with spending and the deficit if the economy hadn’t collapsed.

That’s the dumbest question I’ve heard all day. What was The Judge and Ron Paul talking about and what was Francis posting about? A collapse that hasn’t happen but could very well in the future and what kind of collapse it might be.

Now let’s get to your question……..”if the economy hadn’t collapsed.”……..Earth to one infactuated with tea bags!
Did you not read or watch the video?

Bill Adkins said:
When an idiot coes on here and runs his mouth we call that idiot puck30. My plan is as secret as Rand Paul’s plan to balance the budget.

Ouch ohhhhhhhhhhh that hurt tough guy. Your not going to come over to my house and beat me up are you?
But thanks because with a response like that I know you don’t know shit. Except to run your mouth.

puck30 said:
Did you not read or watch the video?

The article was about Ron Paul speculating about a Soviet style collaspe.

How the f**k do you know we wouldn’t have had a “Soviet-style collapse” without the measures started by Bush and then carried on by Obama? It is all speculative. The overwhelming consensus at the time was that we needed to have the bailouts.

gordonbloyershow said:
More like your VW Bus on blocks in Haight Ashbury.

No, it’s over in Marin.

Fox News: We proudly pander to Teabaggers said:
The article was about Ron Paul speculating about a Soviet style collaspe. How the f**k do you know we wouldn’t have had a “Soviet-style collapse” without the measures started by Bush and then carried on by Obama? It is all speculative. The overwhelming consensus at the time was that we needed to have the bailouts.

Glad you agree with Bush and fell for his spooky camp fire story.

puck30 said:
Ouch ohhhhhhhhhhh that hurt tough guy. Your not going to come over to my house and beat me up are you?But thanks because with a response like that I know you don’t know shit. Except to run your mouth.

Did I miss something, or did you? How could I even find you to beat you up — unless your name is puck30 and you live on dumbass street.

CNN needs to get the rights to the Bill & Puck news hour…

In Greece, things kept on as usual until the government had borrowed a quarter of a million dollars for every working person in the country. At that point, no one wanted to lend any more, and the crisis evolved quite quickly. If Obama gets a second term — which looks increasingly unlikely — this will happen while he is still at the helm. But I have a hunch the attitude toward spending in Washington D.C. will change before we get to the point. Actually, I expect a change very soon in attitude very, very soon.

But this points out a reality ignored by the Left. Their problem is not the Republicans. It’s the Chinese, who will need to lend them trillions more to prop up all the under-funded entitlements. Even if the Democrats win the elections, their programs won’t survive. No one will lend the money to pay the bills, and the programs themselves are structured as Ponzi schemes — so they are cash flow negative almost from the start.

It’s too bad for the Socialist losers, no matter who’s fault it is, you can say goodbye to the Two Party System, Macro Economics, and Majority Rule.

Get ready to say Hello to Rule of Law (no parties needed at Federal Level), Micro Economics, and Local Governance. This sounds like paradise to those that have been and are being raised to support themselves, this must sound like hell to the Plebeians and those that Rule them with other people’s money.

The collapse will not be pretty, but the dipshit two party system that has been running this country for 150 years will not survive.

What I’m referring to,” he explained, “is the giving up of our empire.”

I can agree with this at the least.

puck30 said:
Let’s see Patriot Act still up and running? Yep.

Sorry the Dems didn’t save the GOP from itself sooner.

puck30 said:
Jeff Imelt? Who was selected ‘Worst CEO of 2008′ that just happens to be on Obama’s Economic Advisory Panel?

And they own NBC Universal, the parent of the allegedly ultra left-wing MSNBC. So much for that meme.

As for Obama’s advisory panel, just as with his economic team, as a liberal Democrat, I am FAR from impressed with his choices. And given the way his administration has let BP sweep much of the Gulf disaster under the rug, I can’t disagree that he’s following in similar neo-con footsteps. Afghanistan is another good example. But he’s trying to get us out of Iraq and he did make some effort at health care reform. It’s nothing to cheer about for people like me, by a long shot, but it’s better than what we’d be seeing in a McCain admin. That much is for certain.

gordonbloyershow said:
More like your VW Bus on blocks in Haight Ashbury.

Haight-Ashbury? Gordon, come out of your coma, buddy, the world moved on after the 70s, though judging by those videos of yours, you clearly haven’t. ;-)

I’ve always had some degree of respect for Ron Paul because of all the libertarian conservatives, he’s the only major one who is not a warmonger, but as far as the rest of his views go he’s just another delusional TeaBagger. What people don’t get is that we need big, efficient government. It’s the way of the world, but the right has been denigrating and deligitimitizing government ever since Saint Reagan told them “government is the problem”. And guess what, they did everything they could to dumb down the government and the American people, as well. We have been a might country doing more good than harm for many years, but we were not meant to be an Empire ruling the world. Paul is absolutely correct that we should withdraw our military from most of the world, but I know without asking that he wouldn’t support a stronger United Nations. The rightwing really wants to take this country backwards to a time that never existed when a man was a man who could do whatever he wanted without any restrictions. The housefire in Tennessee and the whole discussion about healthcare really sums up the dilemma that rightwingers have to face. Is it dog eat dog or do we want to have a society that treats people with respect and care. When you have a failing economy plus the greatest disparity of wealth since Teddy Roosevelt’s Robber Barons, you have a formula for disaster. I really encourage people out there to get involved with the upcoming election. Go out and volunteer, make phone calls, help canvass, etc. I’ve been doing that recently and it’s been incredibly rewarding because I’m finding in the downstate New York area that the vast majority of people have not been taken in by the Teapublicans and are going to vote for progressive Democrats. It’s time to get real and not sit around spinning fantasies and venting on the Internet.

felixw said:
and the programs themselves are structured as Ponzi schemes — so they are cash flow negative almost from the start.

Like the health care bill that will reduce the deficit by $143 billion over ten years?

[throws old shoe at feral cat on fence]

ganymede said:
Is it dog eat dog or do we want to have a society that treats people with respect and care.

For conservatives, it’s survival of the fittest everywhere EXCEPT the classroom.

Paul Westlake said:
Like the health care bill that will reduce the deficit by $143 billion over ten years?

[throws old shoe at feral cat on fence]

Do you have any understanding of how those numbers were calculated? The health care entitlement costs the government a trillion dollars over the next few years. At the same time, some tax increases were put into the bill, as well as cuts in Medicares, and lost of “creative acounting” — to try to cover the enormous cost of the bill. This is where you “deficit reduction” number comes from. But this is like the “jobs created or saved by the stimulus” math — jobs actually disappeared in the aftermath and only the “creative math” showed a gain. Obamacare will be like every other Democrat entitlement — cash negative, and impossible to fund over the long run.

I suggest you educate yourself by looking at the promises Democrats made for Social Security and Medicare, and then match them up with the actual current-day accounting of those programs.

Here is a taste of how the Democrats structure their entitlements:

The unfunded liability from Medicare part A is currently estimated at $36 trillion
The unfunded liability from Medicare part B is currently estimated at $37 trillion
The unfunded liability from Medicare part D is currently estimated at $15 trillion

That adds up to almost $80 trillion in unfunded future liabilities from Medicare alone. (I am not even getting into the Social Security deficit.) Obamacare is partly funded by taking more money from Medicare. Do you understand the math here? Hello, Earth to Paul Westlake, can you add?

Let’s see, math from a feral cat, or the Congressional Budget Office. I’m gonna go with the CBO, thanks.

The 2010 elections will will signal the end of our Soviet experiment of going from single party governance back to a representative government. Last year, Congress and the President acted against the will of the electorate by passing health care that would put health care decisions under the control of the HHS secretary. Obama will still push his desire to centralize government and make the states and its citizens federal government dependents. Obama has about forty czars that report only to the White House. Even though the Democrats control all three branches of government, the czars bypass Congressional oversight and allows Obama micromanage the country.
The Soviet Union’s goal was to centralize government control and create a dependent class composed by the majority of the citizens. In other words, that is Obama’s plan.

When the First Lady RESIGNS, you know you are in deep schtuk… http://hogsatemysister.com/

The Real Royal King said:
What a shame my Trabant is on blocks in a garage in Niedersachsen.

I never did get the quote/idea.

I researched what a Trabant was….and smiled.

I looked up Niedersachen and found out a lot of info on Lower Saxony.

I never did see how one person in Germany had a car up on blocks proved a point.

Poor mechanical performance is native to all countries.

_______________________________________

No economic policy, whether monetary, fiscal, or else, will pull us out of the Deep Depression.

I am inviting you today to

Vote for Your Economy, Now.
_______________________________________

When was the last time you were given that opportunity?

We don’t intend to replace the prevalent system but to offer you an additional option.

We will add a significant amount of jobs, revenues and investments.

This is the only election in which the law of the majority is not binding on the minority.

If you don’t participate you are still be making a choice:
the choice of relying exclusively on the prevalent system.
_______________________________________

Vote Now for the Credit Free, Free Market Economy
Add Jobs, Revenues & Investments.
Prosperous, Fair, Stable & Peaceful.
http://post-crash.com
_______________________________________

On September 10th at 10:10:10 AM EST
I will post a video on that site describing the voting process.
_______________________________________

At the present moment people are unusually expectant of a more fundamental diagnosis; more particularly ready to receive it; eager to try it out, if it should be even plausible. But apart from this contemporary mood, the ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.

I am sure that the power of vested interests is vastly exaggerated compared with the gradual encroachment of ideas. Not, indeed, immediately, but after a certain interval; for in the field of economic and political philosophy there are not many who are influenced by new theories after they are twenty-five or thirty years of age, so that the ideas which civil servants and politicians and even agitators apply to current events are not likely to be the newest. But, soon or late, it is ideas, not vested interests, which are dangerous for good or evil.

_______________________________________

Vote Now for the Credit Free, Free Market Economy
Add Jobs, Revenues & Investments.
Prosperous, Fair, Stable & Peaceful.
http://post-crash.com
_______________________________________

Note: I am grateful to the owners of this blog to let me publish my Ideas on their Internet Property. I am ready to publish free articles on any media whatever their political, economical, philosophical, or religious ideology. I would be glad to reciprocate on my own Blog: http://no-w.com

Ron Paul isn’t giving us his strategy here he’s just pointing out the inevitable and hoping Americans might somehow recover their liberty once this all plays itself out. Unfunded government entitlements are but one aspect of why Paul sees collapse as inevitable. It is also why perhaps he sees this stubborn refusal to do right by the constitution as redemption for the sort of people who have learned to thrive without or in spite of government. Eventually the people will reject tyranny whether or not collapse happens on its own or not because the outcome will likely be what Paul anticipates as he assures himself of the people’s better judgement. Austere economics’ and limited government are in his mind very likely to become the rally point for most Americans once this happens but this means liberals will have no place to go in terms of finding a slogan or motto under which they might also rally. They (the liberals) will be left having to do what Jon Stewart has done, which stand over-against Beck waving the people off saying they are insane etc. The question is who would want to join them after the cat is let out of the bag? The whole liberal social experiment will have finally been exposed for the backward thinking it engenders where its most eloquent and convincing champions will have wedged themselves in against the very liberty they claim to want to preserve. Ragan conservatives are all about restoring liberty, but big government liberals are delusional in thinking they are protecting liberty where they claim on one hand the need for efficient government but somehow always translate that into government entitlements, where promiscuous government becomes a necessary evil and where the high courts disregard the rule of law and rewrite law from the bench. At some point Ron Paul knows the people will reject power politics and opt for the Puritan legacy over enlightenment era ideas about government. I hope it happens sooner than later.

If Obimbo is allowed to continue with his lunacy for another two years, we are going to see the rise of vigilantism on a scale unheard of. People are sick and tired of local, state, and the federal governments that have lost the meaning, and intent of the Constitution. The only way to take it back will be at the point of a gun, hence, the all-out assault on the 2nd Amendment. Every few hundred years the trash must be swept out, and the House throughly cleaned.

Rand Paul is an immoral, hypocritical uninformed individual who claims libertarian viewpoins because his dad always had the money and the opportunity to give him what he needed. Unfortunately, the spoiled child lacks the character of his father. Reaganomics’ Trickle Down” economics failed to uplift the american society. Reagaonomics and Libertarianism worships at the altar of MERCANTILISM. It is amoral and ruthless and unforgiving which ist Libertarianism – Social Darwinism and inherently evil.
The tbaggers are mad because the GOP shipped jobs overseas, shrunk the middle class and shoved american families into poverty in order to advance “excessive free market capitalism”. The GOP policiies fed the greed of Wall Street, unleashed the MONSTER of corporate arrogance and created an environment of financial promiscuity without conscience. The BECKS, OHANNIYys justify these unjustifiable actions.
This nation is OF, BY AND FOR the people, and for the GOP to stand on the sidelines obstructing the recovery of the country in order to make the President fail is an abomination. No excuses will justify their inhuman behavior. They sat by and let hundreds of thousands of americans lose their jobs and their unemployment benefits to please their corporate puppet masters. Rand Paul is a rich man’s spoiled son who never had a moment of deprivation and never really had to work, because daddy was his security blanket. The man can afford his ideologies, because he doesn’t really, nor has he ever had to live by them.

PS this nation will not fail, not because of Rand Paul and the GOP. It will succeed because of men like President Obama, Senators Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown who are intelligent, capable, partiots who will work to keep the country safe from the corporate hoarders. I have the very good fortune of living in MD, where we have Senators Mikulski and Cardin representing us. They aret fighters and I have no doubt, that even when they feel like they are voices crying in the wilderness, Mikulski and Cardin will keep “crying out for justice and equality for workers in the state and the country.

Paul Westlake said:
Let’s see, math from a feral cat, or the Congressional Budget Office. I’m gonna go with the CBO, thanks.

Check out the history of the Congressional Budget Office’s estimates of the costs of Medicare. As you can see, these folks have consistently been wrong, and notoriously underestimate the costs of Democrat entitlements.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/opinion/26gabel.html

Of course, I know your aversion to facts of this sort based on previous exchanges…..

Felix, the article you linked to makes it clear that the CBO is conservative with its estimates, if anything. And it also includes this:

“The Congressional Budget Office’s consistent forecasting errors arose not from any partisan bias, but from its methods of projection.”

You were saying something about an aversion to facts but I couldn’t hear it through all your lies.

[throws old shoe at feral cat on fence... again]

Paul Westlake said:
Felix, the article you linked to makes it clear that the CBO is conservative with its estimates,

The quote from the New York Times article is: “But when it comes to forecasting the costs of reform, the budget office’s record is suspect. In each of the past three decades, when assessing major changes in Medicare, it has substantially underestimated the savings the changes would bring.”

Think about it for a while, and the meaning will become clear.

If you won’t believe a feral cat, at least believe the New York Times.

felixw said:
The quote from the New York Times article is: “But when it comes to forecasting the costs of reform, the budget office’s record is suspect. In each of the past three decades, when assessing major changes in Medicare, it has substantially underestimated the savings the changes would bring.”

Think about it for a while, and the meaning will become clear.

Sure, there’s a problem with medicare funding, which will be easily dealt with when we stop allowing banks and corporations to steal taxpayer money in every new budget and every change to tax policy. But your assertion that it showed a liberal bias was debunked not just by my citation from the same article, but again in your own citation – “in each of the past THREE decades” – and it was really the only point you were trying to make because you know I’ve already acknowledged the medicare problem in several threads.

felixw said:
If you won’t believe a feral cat, at least believe the New York Times.

I don’t know why feral cats are reading the NY Times if they don’t believe anything it says. And stop pissing on my geraniums!

I would just like correct things here. Ron Paul did not say anything about interest in “austere economics”, but “Austrian Economics”. Austrian Economics prominently includes the theories and writings of Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich A. Hayek (Nobel Laureate), Murray Rothbard and many other brilliant minds, in the context of advancing us, socially, economically and politically, toward a truly free society.

Visit http://mises.org for more information.

Actually there are some good ideas in this. Consider this: Most red states receive far more in return from the Federal government than they give. For a long time its been the case that the blues are supporting the reds only to be insulted and dumped upon in return. I say lets let the red states alone and not give them anything and keep the money we might have sent them for ourselves. Lets keep health care reform for ourself and let them opt out. Let them do away with environmental protection as well, something they never liked. Sounds good to me but one condition..we do not allow their citizens to come to our states for any kind of free or subsidized treatment. What do you think/ Let them have their freedom .. freedom to be at the mercy of the big insurance companies and freedom to breath polluted air and drink polluted water. Free from medicare and social security. They love to complain about government interference but next time there is a spill in the gulf lets just let them fix it..and the same for hurricanes and tornadoes and floods.
I think I can see the wisdom of this idea after all!!

Vietnameravet,

As long as the government doesn’t get to take taxes from people in these red states to put towards any of the entitlement programs you mention, you’d probably have a deal. Now if only “opt out” meant the government wouldn’t still tax you for it anyway! On one condition, we do not allow your citizens to come to our states for any kind of good or competitively priced treatment. What do you think/Let you have your freedom .. freedom to be at the mercy of the big insurance companies that stand to benefit the most from the healthcare bill and freedom to breath the polluted air and drink the polluted water of California and New York. You love to complain that government isn’t big enough, but the next time there’s an oil spill due to government corruption lets just watch them pretend to fix it for months and not admit that they caused it…and the same for housing crises and forever wars and raging unemployment.
I think I can see the wisdom of this idea after all, too!
Except when your money runs out (lol, it ran out a long time ago, already. So I just it should say: when China stops lending to you) and you have 30% unemployment, and can no longer pretend it’s the job of the few to take care of the many, and all the best and brightest have moved to the states that don’t suck them dry, and you’re living in one big hybrid of California and Michigan, and all the profitable, well run businesses have moved to the red states where they are not unnecessarily stifled and government regulates them well because the politicians have learned to fear the people because the people have learned to pay attention more often than just when the politicians and the media tell them to, and when these red states have policed borders that don’t allow you to just flaunt the law because you feel like it’s your right to take whatever you want…maybe you won’t think it’s such a wise idea for you then.

All “Great” empires fall – nothing last forever. If any of you partisans actually believe that the USA is somehow immune to this you are very wrong. Day after day, week after week and year after year it seems that we are becoming more and more divided.

What is more important here, the country or the rights of individuals? I believe that it is the individual that is more important than the state. A community/ collective of people should be free to disband all connections with a power they feel is tyrannical. I mean, this is fair discussion. Shouldn’t free men/ women that are like minded in their views be able to break away and govern themselves?

Let’s take Vermont for example. They have an organization that wants to no longer be apart of the US. If a majority of people in the community agree, should they not be allowed? If they want no guns at all, no association with the US government because of it’s actions overseas, or whatever the excuse – shouldn’t they as free people be able to govern themselves?

More Liberty said:
What is more important here, the country or the rights of individuals? I believe that it is the individual that is more important than the state. A community/ collective of people should be free to disband all connections with a power they feel is tyrannical. I mean, this is fair discussion. Shouldn’t free men/ women that are like minded in their views be able to break away and govern themselves?

I agree with you in principle, and so does the Declaration of Independence, nut only up to a point:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

The key condition that needs to be satisfied by the tenets of the Declaration is that a “Government becomes destructive of these ends.” Vermonters would have to collectively agree that the government of Vermont, or of the United States, was destructive to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to affect a legal separation.

But the Constitution is unclear on that point. It allows for the admission of new States, but has no provision for allowing them to leave the Union. Lincoln’s justification for jailing the Maryland legislators (which was a big overstep of Executive power that went unrepudiated by the courts), was rooted in the Constitution and based on his assumption that no Federal government contains within it’s structure the instruments of its own demise, and therefore rejected out of hand the notion of secession as unconstitutional. It’s a very interesting debate, especially in these “Tea Party” times. I agree very much that the people’s will is paramount and that governments are transient. Good comments.