Finally these guys are confronting the reality and real people. Here is a guy who benefited from social security from his deceased father, used it from high school to support himself through College , his siblings and their mother, yet has the balls to say he wants to cut it.

Go ahead, lets see you try it.

Glenn Beck is now sourcing to Think Progress?!?!

I’ll be…

Now, when Beck starts sourcing to Media Matters, then we will know that George Soros is indeed the devil and finally got to Beck.

Clearly this constituent didn’t read some book by some random Russian girl that proves scientifically, beyond a shadow of a doubt that libertarianism is the only way to go by, using a methodology called fictional writing.

skyfet said:
Here is a guy who benefited from social security from his deceased father, used it from high school to support himself through College

He received SS for his father’s death from 16 -18 years of age… why that matters? ask a Liberal character assissin…

CH,
Seemed like an intellectual discussion to me…
“gets booed” ?! not exactly an apt description…

If Ryan jumps into the 2012 race… look out Democrats…

Uh…the rich are taxed. In fact they are taxed at a higher percentage than then the rest. Of course Colby Hall doesn’t mention this, nor does anyone else. What someone should have pointed out was that 48% of workers in this country don’t pay income taxes. How is that right?

Don’t let the facts get in the way you partisans.

Great analysis from Gateway Pundit in the Blaze link:

“Too bad these leftist idiots don’t know more about economics or we wouldn’t be in the place we are today.”

I thought after all the healthcare town halls people like this were concerned, patriotic citizens. Now they’re leftist idiots?

I wonder if they get new name tags.

Paul Ryan’s hypocrisy lies in the fact that he benefited from the safety net the republicans are trying to destroy.

And he did get booed.

skoorbekim said:
He received SS for his father’s death from 16 -18 years of age… why that matters? ask a Liberal character assissin…

I guess the truth hurts! He took SS money until he turned 16, the money he saved for college. Imagines there was a Paul Ryan, just before his father passed away, he won’t be in the same position to destroy other peoples chances now.

Use your head and think, you are running yourself to destruction. The term useful idiots comes to mind. You’d rather put peoples saving in the hands of the crooks in wall street. Please try it, campaign for it and the destruction of Medicare in next years election, lets see where that leads ya.

Skippy said:
Paul Ryan’s hypocrisy lies in the fact that he benefited from the safety net the republicans are trying to destroy. And he did get booed.

he is attempting to mend the safety net… Liberals are stretching it to the point of breaking (thus destroying it)

Liberals are using the death of his father for political “messaging”… typical…

I’ve been booed before… that was no boo!

More Liberty5 said:
Uh…the rich are taxed. In fact they are taxed at a higher percentage than then the rest. Of course Colby Hall doesn’t mention this, nor does anyone else. What someone should have pointed out was that 48% of workers in this country don’t pay income taxes. How is that right?

Don’t let the facts get in the way you partisans.

And your phony-self didn’t mention that the poor make that up in sales tax and other similar expenditure that the wealthy do not make. .

im_lovin_it said:
Great analysis from Gateway Pundit in the Blaze link:

“Too bad these leftist idiots don’t know more about economics or we wouldn’t be in the place we are today.”

I thought after all the healthcare town halls people like this were concerned, patriotic citizens. Now they’re leftist idiots?

I wonder if they get new name tags.

I can’t believe you’re making jokes when Paul Ryan’s life was in danger! We all know that when some yahoo confronts a congressman at a town hall, they’re only about two seconds away from enacting Second Amendment solutions! Because, racism!

skyfet said:
father passed away

get a grip… Liberals character assissinate…
he is fixing the programs you protend to love yet use as a weapon…

Ryan is exercising courage and leadership… With this POTUS there is a vacuum of such qualities…

More Liberty5 said:
Don’t let the facts get in the way you partisans.

Liberal personality destruction… it is all they have… they are utterly void of economic facts…

You have to love his arrogance.
Obviously, he’s not listening to what his constituent is saying.
It’s much more important to find that PowerPoint slide.
(Not)TinaFromTampa

skyfet said:
And your phony-self didn’t mention that the poor make that up in sales tax and other similar expenditure that the wealthy do not make. .

There’s a national sales tax now?

skoorbekim said:
he is attempting to mend the safety net… Liberals are stretching it to the point of breaking (thus destroying it)

Liberals are using the death of his father for political “messaging”… typical…

I’ve been booed before… that was no boo!

Pretending to mend the safety net by completely taking it away?
And that was not booing?

Delusional doesn’t even begin to describe you.

Skippy said:
Paul Ryan’s hypocrisy lies in the fact that he benefited from the safety net the republicans are trying to destroy.

And he did get booed.

People saying no, no, no is not booing, it’s disagreeing.

That exercise ( Town Hall ) whereby average Americans who have been so abused and ravaged by the racist ideology and failed policies of the first black president in our countries history, coupled with his and the MSM lies that if only those making over $250,000 paid more ( an unfair, un _ American amount of ) taxes, everything wrong in their lives today would somehow miraculously become OK…….well it won’t.

By the way Obama’s steal from the “real ” Americans and give to the dregs of society is the exaple of why the liberal idea ( version ) of ” The Trickle Down ” theory cannot ever work.

Democrat plan gives the poor man a fish….he and his family eat…..ONE time.

Republican plan teaches the poor man to fish, even if we have to pull his sorry ass out of a crack house kicking & screaming at 3:00 in the morning to do so, he goes on to catch more than enough fish to feed his family, eventually opening his own fish market, realizing the ” real ” American dream.

One of these two plans is racist and self defeating from it’s very inception, whether you’re a ” real ” American or someone just lucky enough to be born here will be your guide toward which one YOU chose.

Skippy said:
completely taking it away?

What on earth?
Have you read the plan?

The programs that you pretend to love above all else are not taken away?

explain to me how the Democrat plan (or lack thereof) supports those plans… or, are the Democrats just using them as a weapon to character assissante and perpetrate class warfare…

explain to me where the trillions will come from…

INFLATION is the only outcome of the Liberal plans or, again, lack thereof…

Skippy you are a pawn, wake up!

Barack Must Go said:

By the way Obama’s steal from the “real ” Americans and give to the dregs of society is the exaple of why the liberal idea ( version ) of ” The Trickle Down ” theory cannot ever work.

.

I’ve never seen the Right Wing mindset put out there more perfectly. The rich are “real americans” while the middle class and poor are the “dregs of society.”

They weren’t booing, they were just disagreeing with boos. Two different things.

If Liberals at HuffPo and Think Prog think this will hurt Mr. Ryan then they are whistling past the 2012 graveyard…

skoorbekim said:
What on earth?
Have you read the plan?

The programs that you pretend to love above all else are not taken away?

explain to me how the Democrat plan (or lack thereof) supports those plans… or, are the Democrats just using them as a weapon to character assissante and perpetrate class warfare…

explain to me where the trillions will come from…

INFLATION is the only outcome of the Liberal plans or, again, lack thereof…

Skippy you are a pawn, wake up!

Rather that trying to write down all the nuts and bolts, I am going to give you a link to the Daily Show.

But since you can’t even admit Paul Ryan was booed, I doubt you are going to admit or learn anything.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-april-14-2011-ricky-gervais

The short answer is, let the Bush tax cuts expire.

Obama would be booed with every statement if he didn’t stack the audiences with driveling Obamabots.

Wrong clip above.

Correct clip below:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/tue-april-12-2011-governor-deval-patrick

The left doesn’t want to have an intelligent conversation about this issue because they cannot bear to lose their precious “tax cuts for the rich” meme. The right has to reframe the argument to “everyone contributes,” and that has to include those who can afford to manipulate the tax code to avoid their share. The right also has to acknowledge that the 47% who do not pay federal income tax DO pay state and local taxes, and many of those taxes are regressive. You’ve got to attack deficit through reforming the tax code, which is exactly what Ryan and Obama’s own commission are proposing. Of course, our Demagogue-in-Chief is having none of it.

Skippy said:
a link to the Daily Show.

you are linking to the Daily Show to debate your point?!

I heard two people (maybe three) form the “b” sound in boo in that clip…

Bush Tax cuts? How much revenue will that generate? We are TRILLIONS short of meeting our fundamental requirements in support of the safety net…

Put pen to paper and explain, to yourself, where that money could possibly come from…
the only answer is inflation… we’ll all be “rich” when that happens…

BadGenome said:
There’s a national sales tax now?

You would have been better off checking the information out before embarrassing yourself. Have a look, if you can’t find any, then indulge me in educating ya.

My boyfriend thinks the same with me. He is 12 years older than me, lol. We met online at AgeM’ing’le. com The premiere online community for older women seek younger men or older men seek younger women to meet and share your interests. Ever feel that you would best enjoy someone who is not in your age group? Leave behind the other general dating sites out there and try us. wqrr

Sky, do some research for once. He was 16 when his dad died, so he received SS between the ages of 16-18. He didn’t receive them up until the age of 16.

skoorbekim said:
you are linking to the Daily Show to debate your point?!

I heard two people (maybe three) form the “b” sound in boo in that clip…

Bush Tax cuts? How much revenue will that generate? We are TRILLIONS short of meeting our fundamental requirements in support of the safety net…

Put pen to paper and explain, to yourself, where that money could possibly come from…
the only answer is inflation… we’ll all be “rich” when that happens…

Here:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/alan-greenspan-debt-crisis-so-imminent-we-have-to-allow-bush-tax-cuts-to-expire/

Mr. Greenspan was talking about re-imposing the taxes for all Americans. The Treasury has estimated that a permanent extension of all the Bush tax cuts would cost $3.6 trillion over the next decade. Allowing taxes to increase on those in the top income brackets would take the cost to the government down to $2.9 trillion, according to White House estimates.

=============================

In addition, there is another clip somewhere (I don’t have it now) where Bush painted a rosy picture when he was pushing for approval of those tax cuts, going so far as claiming the “additional tax revenue” would pay the national debt in ten years.

That didn’t happen. Did it?

My boyfriend thinks the same with me. He is 12 years older than me, lol. We met online at AgeM’ing’le. com The premiere online community for older women seek younger men or older men seek younger women to meet and share your interests. Ever feel that you would best enjoy someone who is not in your age group? Leave behind the other general dating sites out there and try us. iu6i6

Great article on this Sky:

Liberals attack Paul Ryan because his father died young, resulting in survivor benefits

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/opinion-zone/2011/04/liberals-attack-paul-ryan-because-his-father-died-when-paul-was-16#ixzz1KADNz4n2

Especially this part:

But the Daily Kos blog is now using his father’s early death against Ryan. A Daily Kos diary attacks Ryan in a post entitled, “Entitlement-hating Paul Ryan collected Social Security benefits until he was 18.” Never mind that Ryan’s recent budget proposal doesn’t in fact seek to abolish entitlements, much less get rid of Social Security. It merely seeks to cut the rate of growth of exploding Medicare costs by eventually giving its recipients vouchers they can use to shop around for medical care.

Stop drinking the Think Progress Koolaid and you might learn something.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, do some research for once. He was 16 when his dad died, so he received SS between the ages of 16-18. He didn’t receive them up until the age of 16.

lol, do you feel smart. Duh, off course till he turned 18. You would have realized it was a typo, in the same sentence or the one before I said he collected it while in High school, and then saved it for college. You’d know this if you finished high school at 18, maybe you finished earlier.

Are you another one who is on welfare but do not want others to collect? Solution should be if you are on welfare, or have collected it, you should be quiet and let others do the same. In the case of the GOP, they’d prefer to take peoples savings and give it to wall street.

skyfet said:
You would have been better off checking the information out before embarrassing yourself. Have a look, if you can’t find any, then indulge me in educating ya.

We’re talking about the federal government, correct? I am pretty sure that sales taxes only exist at the state and local levels. And what’s up with your assertion that only the poor pay a sales tax, anyway? Educate me, please, in the ways of your strange parallel universe.

Skippy said:
$3.6 trillion over the next decade.

3.6T divided by 10 = 360 Billiona year (this year’s deficit is 1.6Trillion)
Although I disagree with your figure I will grant it to you for debate’s sake…

So, if you raise taxes as stated above, there is still a 1.24Trillion dollar deficit for the year…
Where does that $1.2 T come from?

Furthermore, could you envision a down side to raising taxes on the wealthiest 1%?
will prices rise?
will the wealthy 1% spend as musch as before?
Will business taxed at a higher rate pass those costs onto consumers?

Liberal Tormentor said:
Great article on this Sky:

Liberals attack Paul Ryan because his father died young, resulting in survivor benefits

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/opinion-zone/2011/04/liberals-attack-paul-ryan-because-his-father-died-when-paul-was-16#ixzz1KADNz4n2

.

You should thank me for educating ya, you didn’t know this until I mentioned it. You did a quick Google and copies a link from the examiner, you should have taken it from Fox News, they have a Similar article, or perhaps your favorite The Blaze.

BadGenome said:
We’re talking about the federal government, correct? I am pretty sure that sales taxes only exist at the state and local levels. And what’s up with your assertion that only the poor pay a sales tax, anyway? Educate me, please, in the ways of your strange parallel universe.

Good on ya, you’ve done a quick Google check. Next time learn your stuff before jumping into an embarrassing situation.

skyfet said:
m pretty sure that sales taxes only exist at the state and local levels. And what’s up with your assertion that only the poor pay a sales tax, anyway? Educate me, please, in the ways of your strange parallel universe.

What the hell are you talking about, dude? I didn’t have to Google shit. You brought up a sales tax, which was puzzling since we’re clearly talking about the federal government. And again, why did you imply that the rich are somehow exempt from paying sales taxes?

Ah Bull Sky, I knew about this yesterday around the time I requested a Mediaite story on it. Nice try though!

Jackie_Treehorn said:
I’ve never seen the Right Wing mindset put out there more perfectly. The rich are “real americans” while the middle class and poor are the “dregs of society.”

Do not lump the ” real ” American middle class in with the government teet suckers like yourself.

That is a favorite tactic of this racist president which is and outright lie.

I was illustrating one aspect of Obama’s failed racist propaganda manifeto that is tearing this country apart through race, class warfare.

The middle class and the dregs ( you ) of society have about as much in common as a ghetto dweller and a job.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, do some research for once. He was 16 when his dad died, so he received SS between the ages of 16-18. He didn’t receive them up until the age of 16.

Nobody is saying Ryan was leeching off the government.

What we are saying is that had Ryan’s situation occurred under the plans offered by the republicans, Ryan would have been out of luck. That is the absurdity of the middle class swallowing the republican tripe about destroying, er, privatizing SS and Medicare.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Ah Bull Sky, I knew about this yesterday around the time I requested a Mediaite story on it. Nice try though!

I bet you did.

Via The Daily Caller:

The College Republicans at the University of California-Merced ask fellow students, who support raising taxes on the rich, if they would be willing to redistribute their GPAs. They don’t think it’s a good idea because they earned their grades.

Can one of you lib break this down for me?

BadGenome said:
What the hell are you talking about, dude? I didn’t have to Google shit. You brought up a sales tax, which was puzzling since we’re clearly talking about the federal government. And again, why did you imply that the rich are somehow exempt from paying sales taxes?

You really need to go back and check your source again, see what goods/cost that is under that category. I’m not going to educate you, go and learn.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Via The Daily Caller:

The College Republicans at the University of California-Merced ask fellow students, who support raising taxes on the rich, if they would be willing to redistribute their GPAs. They don’t think it’s a good idea because they earned their grades.

Can one of you lib break this down for me?

That is just moronic, lol, come on, its too gullible for your standard to try and compare the two.

Skippy said:
Nobody is saying Ryan was leeching off the government.

What we are saying is that had Ryan’s situation occurred under the plans offered by the republicans, Ryan would have been out of luck. That is the absurdity of the middle class swallowing the republican tripe about destroying, er, privatizing SS and Medicare.

Private insurance would be written in such a way that if the same situation ( dad died ) while son only 16, payments would be forthcoming.

There is no place written or implied by Ryan’s proposal that would lead a ” real ” American ( that leaves you out ) to a different conclusion.

Sky, you offering to educate anyone is flippin funny!

skyfet said:
You really need to go back and check your source again, see what goods/cost that is under that category. I’m not going to educate you, go and learn.

Er… what source are you talking about? This is beginning to feel like a David Lynch movie. Are you trying to be vague and evasive because you don’t know what you’re talking about? If so, it’s not really doing anything to mask it.

Sky, I won’t even call your response spin, since you weren’t even able to spin it. It’s a parallel example. In each case, it’s redistibuting something ($$ or grades) from those who earned it to those who didn’t.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, you offering to educate anyone is flippin funny!

Yeah, especially as you’ve benefited from it. You get info here, go down to Google it, derive an article from it and then post it here as if you know what the hell its about. You can’t even summarize it, you just post it. Remember how I pointed out to you last week , when you post the same link as the guy before you?

Shhhh, Michelle.

skyfet said:
That is just moronic, lol, come on, its too gullible for your standard to try and compare the two.

No YOU are moronic. The liberal losers say what’s yours is for the good of the people ( stone cold socialism ) , but when hard pressed they answehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&feature=player_embedded#at=23r, what mine is MINES.

Barack Must Go said:
No YOU are moronic. The liberal losers say what’s yours is for the good of the people ( stone cold socialism ) , but when hard pressed they answehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&feature=player_embedded#at=23r, what mine is MINES.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&feature=player_embedded#at=23

Barack Must Go said:
No YOU are moronic. The liberal losers say what’s yours is for the good of the people ( stone cold socialism ) , but when hard pressed they answehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&feature=player_embedded#at=23r, what mine is MINES.

If you think it makes sense, maybe that is why you have amassed so much stupidity (for lack of sharing).

Sky, I think its hilarious that you think you “got me” because I posted a link that someone else already had. Yeah, I was in a rush and didn’t read all of the comment. So what! You continue to embarrass yourself.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, I think its hilarious that you think you “got me” because I posted a link that someone else already had. Yeah, I was in a rush and didn’t read all of the comment. So what! You continue to embarrass yourself.

No you continue to embarrass yourself for not having an original idea. What you do is post links from the blaze and then tell us to read it. Duh, we can read, what we want to hear (or not interested in) is your own opinion. Something I doubt you have.

skyfet: Are we even having the same conversation here?

“The poor pay sales taxes and other things that the rich don’t!”

“Really? Since when do we have a national sales tax, anyway?”

“Sometimes, owls are big!”

“Er, what?”

“.looc teg annog si klim ruoY”

“The shit…?”

“DON’T MAKE ME EDUCATE YOU, SON!”

BadGenome said:
skyfet: Are we even having the same conversation here?

“The poor pay sales taxes and other things that the rich don’t!”

“Really? Since when do we have a national sales tax, anyway?”

“Sometimes, owls are big!”

“Er, what?”

“.looc teg annog si klim ruoY”

“The shit…?”

“DON’T MAKE ME EDUCATE YOU, SON!”

Its sad that you didn’t know what sales/use tax is until I mentioned it to ya. A little appreciation would do.

You are welcome.

skyfet said:
Duh, we can read, what we want to hear (or not interested in) is your own opinion.

$1000.00 to anyone who can diagram this sentence .

Ahhhhh

skoorbekim said:
3.6T divided by 10 = 360 Billiona year (this year’s deficit is 1.6Trillion)
Although I disagree with your figure I will grant it to you for debate’s sake…

So, if you raise taxes as stated above, there is still a 1.24Trillion dollar deficit for the year…
Where does that $1.2 T come from?

Furthermore, could you envision a down side to raising taxes on the wealthiest 1%?
will prices rise?
will the wealthy 1% spend as musch as before?
Will business taxed at a higher rate pass those costs onto consumers?

First off, increasing taxes to raise revenue is only half of the plan. The other half consists of spending cuts.
Deep spending cuts in the largest sacred cow – Defense.

As for the behavior of those affected by a 3% increase on their tax bill, I would only say one has to be an ultimate miser to worry about $6,000 if you are making over $200,000/yr. Furthermore, you are also conflating the behavior of businesses as opposed to individuals.

Some businesses could indeed pass that additional 3% in higher prices to consumers, but that is not the only factor leading to inflation. The only business openly advertising how much their customers are saving is WalMart, not because they are benefiting from the tax cuts but because WalMart has found a cheaper supplier.

Here is Greenspan with a much lengthier explanation about why the Bush tax cuts should expire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbTgL70OGD0&feature=related

The Lantern of Truth said:
$1000.00 to anyone who can diagram this sentence .

Ahhhhh

You don’t have a $1, thats why you are at home.

ahhhhh

Sky, you wany my opinion? Here it is. I’m of the opinion that you aren’t that bright.

Skippy said:
The other half consists of spending cuts.

(360B is not half of 1.6T)
US defense budget is 700B…
Eliminating the entire US defense budget of 700B + 360B in tax increases gets us to 1.1T…
where does the other 500B come from?
remember, we have no military, increased taxes and we are still 500B short for one year…
You mentioned spending cuts… what else you got?

Maybe you could show me the Greenspan clip where he apologizes for his prior work as Fed Chairman…

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, you wany my opinion? Here it is. I’m of the opinion that you aren’t that bright.

Bright enough to know that your son might hate you for being on the net a lot.

Trickle Down economics is a failed theory, it hasn’t happened in 30 years. Wages have stagnated or in many cases gone down. People know this now and this idiot should expect to get booed a lot more.

The GOP says we need to keep the tax rate for the rich at current levels so they can invest some of that extra dough and create jobs. Why not bump the rates up to the Clinton era levels, and give the fat cats a big tax deduction for the extra money they invest so that it is a wash? I, for one, don’t completely trust the rich to invest their money. Whatever happened to noblesse oblige ?

skyfet said:
Its sad that you didn’t know what sales/use tax is until I mentioned it to ya. A little appreciation would do.

You are welcome.

I’ll take that as a “no”, then?

Sky, at least my son is bright enough at the age of 12, to understand what’s wrong with taking what belongs to someone and giving it to someone else. Too bad you libs aren’t as bright as he is.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Via The Daily Caller:

The College Republicans at the University of California-Merced ask fellow students, who support raising taxes on the rich, if they would be willing to redistribute their GPAs. They don’t think it’s a good idea because they earned their grades.

Can one of you lib break this down for me?

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, I won’t even call your response spin, since you weren’t even able to spin it. It’s a parallel example. In each case, it’s redistibuting something ($$ or grades) from those who earned it to those who didn’t.

Uggghhh….I have a friend who once tried to play this schtick on me. Okay, so let’s say you and I matriculate at the same place. We have access to all the same courses, the same professors, the same academic assistance. So, we both have all the same opportunities for success right?

Okay, now let’s both move to Chicago and adopt a small child. I will live in North Park and make $9.8 million dollars this year. You get to live in West Englewood and make $26,000. Surely your kid will come out just as well as mine, right? Come on! Bootstraps!

BadGenome said:
I can’t believe you’re making jokes when Paul Ryan’s life was in danger! We all know that when some yahoo confronts a congressman at a town hall, they’re only about two seconds away from enacting Second Amendment solutions! Because, racism!

Ha! Fun isn’t it?! It’s like we’re all on some giant, expensive, Nietzschean, teeter-totter while our feudal lords laugh at us.

david r said:
don’t completely trust the rich to invest their money

Do you trust the political parties to collect and spend wisely?
Targeted tax cuts lead to Cronie Capitalism…

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, at least my son is bright enough at the age of 12, to understand what’s wrong with taking what belongs to someone and giving it to someone else. Too bad you libs aren’t as bright as he is.

I thought you were a good Christian lady. Even the bible proposed tax, the sad thing is that you benefit from it, but just don’t want to pay your fair share, or you just don’t like others sharing it with ya.

Sky, I evidentally know the Bible better than you. It doesn’t say the gov’t should take care of your every need. It talks about helping your neighbor, VOLUNTARILY!!!! Why do you libs act like someone stealing $$ and giving it to someone else is charity? This seems like a good time to remind you libs that Conservatives are FAR more generous with their OWN $$. We don’t need to be forced to help those in need, you do.

skoorbekim said:
Do you trust the political parties to collect and spend wisely?
Targeted tax cuts lead to Cronie Capitalism…

I would if we had a thoughtful and rational electorate that held political parties to a high moral standard. But…..well just look at the comments at this place. And let’s not forget the millions and millions of our citizens who know who won every season of Survivor but can’t name a single elected official other than Barack Obama.

Sky says:

the sad thing is that you benefit from it, but just don’t want to pay your fair share, or you just don’t like others sharing it with ya.

I make around $30,000 a year. I’m one of those people who should love what you libs propose, but I don’t think it’s fair that I knock on my neighbors door and demand he give me some of his money.

im_lovin_it said:
well just look at the comments at this place.

I doubt most of them vote…
elections for POTUS hover between 50-55% turnout…
The US Gov’t is the biggest corporation on Earth… and they owe 14.4T…

Skippy said:
As for the behavior of those affected by a 3% increase on their tax bill, I would only say one has to be an ultimate miser to worry about $6,000 if you are making over $200,000/yr.

So it shouldn’t matter that your after tax income goes from $100K or so down to $94K?

skyfet said:
I thought you were a good Christian lady. Even the bible proposed tax…

Where?

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky says:

the sad thing is that you benefit from it, but just don’t want to pay your fair share, or you just don’t like others sharing it with ya.

I make around $30,000 a year. I’m one of those people who should love what you libs propose, but I don’t think it’s fair that I knock on my neighbors door and demand he give me some of his money.

Hello! SS is not begging your neighbor. If you do work, and pay your fair share of the taxes, I think the SS is covered in that. No one is begging anyone for handout, you joker.

skoorbekim said:
Do you trust the political parties to collect and spend wisely?
Targeted tax cuts lead to Cronie Capitalism…

No, I don’t. We need to clean house. In the meantime, let’s do something about this deficit before Obama turns us into Brazil.

Sky, you are calling for higher taxes, that’s exactly what it is. Ryan isn’t calling for doing away with SS, he’s talking reform. It HAS to be reformed because is not sustainable. Geez!! This isn’t that hard to figure out!!

skoorbekim said:
I doubt most of them vote…
elections for POTUS hover between 50-55% turnout…
The US Gov’t is the biggest corporation on Earth… and they owe 14.4T…

Really? I bet every clown here votes…..right down party lines. Must defeat the enemy!

And like you noted, 50-55% voter turn out for Presidency? How disgraceful. That’s why this government owes $14 trillion. We are a nation of fat, lazy, stupid slobs. We want to pay no taxes and enjoy all the benefits. And to hell with everyone else.

I just have hope that one day things will change….hmm…..hope and change…..sounds like a good hollow campaign slogan.

Pablo said:
Where?

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

Pablo said:
Where?

After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”
“Yes, he does,” he replied.

When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?”

“From others,” Peter answered.

“Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him. “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.

If Jesus the Messiah pays his taxes, who do both Pablo and Michelle want to avoid it? are they better?

Sky, can you point to where ANY one of us said we want to pay NO taxes? NO you can’t because it’s NOT TRUE!

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, you are calling for higher taxes, that’s exactly what it is. Ryan isn’t calling for doing away with SS, he’s talking reform. It HAS to be reformed because is not sustainable. Geez!! This isn’t that hard to figure out!!

Reform like W and the GOP (including Ryan) tried during W’s term in office. I remember well about their reform plans (transferring peoples savings to wall street).

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, can you point to where ANY one of us said we want to pay NO taxes? NO you can’t because it’s NOT TRUE!

You are the one saying they are taking from the wealth towards the poor. Jesus didn’t ask, nor would he mind. He just paid his taxes. The people that had problems paying their taxes then were greedy phonies (we all know how they end up).

david r said:
No, I don’t. We need to clean house. In the meantime, let’s do something about this deficit before Obama turns us into Brazil.

hear, hear…

im_lovin_it said:
Really? I bet every clown here votes

I just can’t (my mind won’t let me) picture Color Me Badd or Skyfet voting…

Paul Ryan does not care about this country’s history and will repeat that history…for some reason Ryan thinks that his budget plan for prosperity will be better than Ronald Reagan’s idea that giving the rich more money they will use that money to create jobs.
It’s been over 30 years later and no sign that Ronald Reagan’s idea of destroying the middle class and unions has created a safer and better america. So, why is it that Paul Ryan bring up this fail thinking and making it a point that his opinion is the only opinion that matters and he would push to keep this idea alive on the hill…the only way that men like Ryan will give attention to the concerns of the middle class is when he is not in office and is not capable of influening other …we complained too much about President Obama not standing up to his complainers and Ryan is taking that to heart he feels that standing on his principles are the only voice he needs to hear…I donot like the idea of begging my leadership to do what is best for the nation not only the pocket of the already rich no matter which way this nation moves…Ryan has failed history or american history and needs to be place in the time oout corner

skyfet, mentioning taxes and proposing taxes are not the same thing. You’re welcome for the education.

ahhhh. Capiche!

Ryan is absolutely correct. We do tax the top. We tax them a lot.

Can you imagine what those yokels would say if anyone ever proposed taxing the middle class at the same rate the top %1 is taxed? We’d have riots in the streets.

It’s funny that people bash Ryan for collecting the SS benefits his father was forced to pay into, and what Ryan is trying to do is save SS. If we leave SS alone, it will go insolvent. How do I know this? Because SS told me so on my yearly statement.

So Ryan tries to figure out a way to keep that from happening, and he’s scapegoated. Simply amazing.

skyfet said:
If Jesus the Messiah pays his taxes, who do both Pablo and Michelle want to avoid it? are they better?

Who said that?

Sky, are you “playing” dumb or is it for real? We don’t mind paying taxes, but we see the danger is taxing the crap out of the business creators. What % of their income should the top earners pay? Don’t avoid this question like most libs do. Have the guts to answer it.

skoorbekim said:
(360B is not half of 1.6T)
US defense budget is 700B…
Eliminating the entire US defense budget of 700B + 360B in tax increases gets us to 1.1T…
where does the other 500B come from?
remember, we have no military, increased taxes and we are still 500B short for one year…
You mentioned spending cuts… what else you got?

Maybe you could show me the Greenspan clip where he apologizes for his prior work as Fed Chairman…

Oh, so you want to balance the budged in one year?

That is not going to happen, whether under republican or democratic budget proposals. It is going to take years. And that is what Greenspan explains in more detail in that second clip. In other words, the rosy predictions and assumptions used by Bush and the republicans to pass their tax cuts FAILED to work as they said the tax cuts would.

But, OK. Be that as it may. The additional steps trying to reach a balanced budget obviously include cuts in other spending (Medicare and SS) and additional tax increases on the middle class.

Getting back to Ryan’s proposals, they rely on the same rosy assumptions and that is what the Daily Show demonstrates in an entertaining way. But hey, you dismiss it without even seeing it and you insist Ryan was NOT booed.

Pablo said:
Who said that?

You got trapped in your own question, now you are playing dumb, this is very funny. Pablo, why don’t you want to pay your fair share of tax, while enjoying the security the country provides?

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, are you “playing” dumb or is it for real? We don’t mind paying taxes, but we see the danger is taxing the crap out of the business creators. What % of their income should the top earners pay? Don’t avoid this question like most libs do. Have the guts to answer it.

Hello! what the hell are you talking about. Taxes are at their lowest in 70yrs. That is the difference between reality and fiction, you don’t know this do ya? No you don’t, you just spew the same crap from talk radio.

More Liberty5 said:
Uh…the rich are taxed. In fact they are taxed at a higher percentage than then the rest. Of course Colby Hall doesn’t mention this, nor does anyone else. What someone should have pointed out was that 48% of workers in this country don’t pay income taxes. How is that right?

Don’t let the facts get in the way you partisans.

Of course you don’t know why they don’t pay income tax right? How bout listening to an economist on this subject?

“Simply because they don’t make enough money.

If that sounds glib, just look at the tax rate structure:http://www­.taxfounda­tion.org/p­ublication­s/show/151­.html

Setting aside the complexiti­es of deductions and so forth that allow them to achieve that zero-tax liability, and to use a simplified example, a family bringing in $34,000 a year is paying the same rate on the first half of that amount as the one who only brings in $17,000. Same principle as applies to the tax-cut extension: those pulling down a million were already getting the same break on their first $379,150 as those making only that much.

So it isn’t that anyone making below a certain amount is getting away with something that anyone who makes more doesn’t get away with. It’s just that making in excess of that amount makes them liable for the taxes on it.

As I said, vastly oversimpli­fied, but it illustrate­s the principle.”

Steven Wells

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/StevenWells/robin-hood-in-reverse-in-_b_846004_83574744.html

This is one of the easier teabag memes to knock down and enjoy it every chance I get. Tee Hee.

skyfet said:
You got trapped in your own question, now you are playing dumb, this is very funny. Pablo, why don’t you want to pay your fair share of tax, while enjoying the security the country provides?

That’s the question, isn’t it? What is “fair”? Is it “fair” that lower income earners are taxed at a much lower rate (or not at all) than higher income earners? Sure, we can say that higher income earners can “afford” to pay more, but should they?

In what possible definition of the word “fair” is that fair?

Skippy said:
Oh, so you want to balance the budged in one year?

Have it your way… project 10-12 years out… use Obama’s 2012 Budget version 1 or Obama’s 2012 Budget version 2… Deficits still top 1.2Trillion… picture the debt by then…

How many people booed Ryan?
I thought that was a good clip because it seemed like an adult discussion on budget philosophy…
Think Prog and HuffPo want it spun like Ryan was getting chased out of town…

Regarding Greenspan, how far back can we quote him? Back to his palin’ around with Ayn Rand days?

I know the Daily Show… I’ld rather talk #’s… not snarky Liberal comedians…

Here is Bush and his delusions about paying off the national debt in 10 years:

FLASHBACK: In 2001 Address, Bush Said The National Debt Would Be Paid Off In Ten Years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5F79kd2O7U

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, are you “playing” dumb or is it for real? We don’t mind paying taxes, but we see the danger is taxing the crap out of the business creators. What % of their income should the top earners pay? Don’t avoid this question like most libs do. Have the guts to answer it.

Only in 1988 and 1989 (Ronald Reagan’s final 13 months in office) was the TOP MARGINAL rate down to 28%. It was 69.13% when he went into office, and went from 69.13%-50% from 1981-1986, then 38.5%, then 28%.

Barack Obama has proposed a top marginal tax rate of 39.6%, which was the rate under Bill Clinton. So with the exception of 13 months of Reagan’s time in office, Obama’s rate is lower than Reagan’s.

“in 2008, only 19% of the income reported by the 13,480 individuals or families making over $10 million came from wages and salaries….
…And the top 1% of income earners, who average over $1 million a year, actually pay a smaller percentage of their incomes to taxes than the 9% just below them…
…As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one’s home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%.”
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

The rich SHOULD pay, because the RICH have the vast majority of the wealth.

Liberal Tormentor said:
Sky, are you “playing” dumb or is it for real? We don’t mind paying taxes, but we see the danger is taxing the crap out of the business creators. What % of their income should the top earners pay? Don’t avoid this question like most libs do. Have the guts to answer it.

Dwight D. Eisenhower had the top marginal rate at 91%.

“The highest tax bracket on earned income today is 35%. During Ike’s administration, the highest tax bracket was 92% in 1953, and 91% thereafter [1]. Yes, taxes on the Rich were almost three times higher under the Republican Eisenhower compared to our current President, or compared to the Democratic administration of Bill Clinton!

Capital Gains Tax: Ike’s Time vs. Our Time

It is considered to be almost the gospel today that capital gains should be taxed at a far lower rate than earned income. Today the maximum capital gains tax rate is a whopping 15% on assets that have been held for at least a year since purchase. This is why the middle class, who are dependant on earned income, effectively pay taxes at a higher rate than do the wealthy.

In Ike’s day, capital gains were not treated differently from earned income, so the rich paid 91% tax on capital gains. From 91% to 15% – another reason why it’s good to be rich!

Note that in 1955, in the middle of Ike’s presidency, the typical (median) family paid less than 20% in all taxes [2]. By 2003, the total of all taxes paid by a typical family had more than doubled, to almost 40% of income. …

“”We cannot afford to reduce taxes, reduce income,until we have in sight a program of expenditure that shows that the factors of income and outgo will be balanced.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1967059/posts

So Liberal Tormentor, you understand that in RYAN’s plan, (passed by the GOP House), Capital Gains taxes are ELIMINATED. Period. Which means that CEO’s who take compensation in stock and dividends will pay NO FEDERAL TAXES AT ALL. ZERO.
That means that the clerk sweeping up the Apple Store will pay more in federal income taxes than Apple CEO Steve Jobs.

That’s the America you want?

–Cobra

Skippy said:
Here is Bush and his delusions about paying off the national debt in 10 years:

FLASHBACK: In 2001 Address, Bush Said The National Debt Would Be Paid Off In Ten Years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5F79kd2O7U

Yes his idea was that the National Debt would be paid off in 10 years by giving the rich a tax break, starting two wars which were not paid for, and passed the single largest entitlement program in the history of our country which also was not paid for.

Tee Hee. Sounds like some “fuzzy math”

Cobra said:
The rich SHOULD pay, because the RICH have the vast majority of the wealth.

Not true…
Vast majority of wealth resides in the middle class…

Expand your Tax the Rich model world wide and every single American is “Rich”… Why should you have a nice new computer while children are suffering elsewhere?

Jean-Luc said:
That’s the question, isn’t it? What is “fair”? Is it “fair” that lower income earners are taxed at a much lower rate (or not at all) than higher income earners? Sure, we can say that higher income earners can “afford” to pay more, but should they?

In what possible definition of the word “fair” is that fair?

Fair is having a threshold of income to tax. You can’t possibly tell me you want to tax a man that makes $10000 at 10%, while taxing someone that makes $1000000 at the same percentage. Logic and basic human nature tells us that it isn’t fair.

skoorbekim said:
Not true…
Vast majority of wealth resides in the middle class…

Not anymore, thanks to Reganomics.

skyfet said:
Logic and basic human nature tells us that it isn’t fair.

So a sales tax is not fair?

skyfet said:
Not anymore, thanks to Reganomics.

Maddow talking point that is a complete fail based on facts and data…
When Maddow talks economics, turn the channel…

skoorbekim said:
So a sales tax is not fair?

What has that got to do with income?

skoorbekim said:
Have it your way… project 10-12 years out… use Obama’s 2012 Budget version 1 or Obama’s 2012 Budget version 2… Deficits still top 1.2Trillion… picture the debt by then…

How many people booed Ryan?
I thought that was a good clip because it seemed like an adult discussion on budget philosophy…
Think Prog and HuffPo want it spun like Ryan was getting chased out of town…

Regarding Greenspan, how far back can we quote him? Back to his palin’ around with Ayn Rand days?

I know the Daily Show… I’ld rather talk #’s… not snarky Liberal comedians…

Oh, so your beef is about what Think Progress or the Huffo may have said or not. Got ya.

How many people do you think were in that room?

Sounds like you didn’t even watch the clip.

Asaid earlier, how come after 10 years of Bush tax cuts the Economy is still in worse shape that when he took office?

This is where you forget to talk about numbers and start ranting about how Obama was supposed to the mess Bush created in 8 years, with consequences lasting long after he is gone.

skoorbekim said:
Maddow talking point that is a complete fail based on facts and data…
When Maddow talks economics, turn the channel…

You watch Maddow more than I do, check the facts, the effect of Reagnaomics on the middle class, decades later.

Skippy said:
Sounds like you didn’t even watch the clip.

really?

Skippy said:
Oh, so your beef is about what Think Progress or the Huffo may have said or not.

it is why CH posted the clip…

Skippy said:
how come after 10 years of Bush tax cuts the Economy is still in worse shape that when he took office?
This is where you forget to talk about numbers and start ranting about how Obama was supposed to the mess Bush created in 8 years, with consequences lasting long after he is gone.

political talking point that assumes the person you are debating supported Bush…
Bush spent like a Liberal… Liberal policies have been governing this country for decades and the bank is busted…
look at the balance sheets… The current Entitlement system is unsustainable…

show me where the 1.6T is…

skoorbekim said:
Not true…
Vast majority of wealth resides in the middle class…

Expand your Tax the Rich model world wide and every single American is “Rich”… Why should you have a nice new computer while children are suffering elsewhere?

“…As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one’s home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%.”
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

What part of those FACTS about wealth in America can’t you understand?

–Cobra

skyfet said:
Fair is having a threshold of income to tax. You can’t possibly tell me you want to tax a man that makes $10000 at 10%, while taxing someone that makes $1000000 at the same percentage. Logic and basic human nature tells us that it isn’t fair.

That’s where we disagree then. We should change from a tiered income tax where the rates differ to a consumption tax which taxes everyone at the same rate. A prebate system would pre-empt any regressive tendencies of a consumption tax.

Jean-Luc said:
That’s where we disagree then. We should change from a tiered income tax where the rates differ to a consumption tax which taxes everyone at the same rate. A prebate system would pre-empt any regressive tendencies of a consumption tax.

I cannot accept that, a lot of reasonable wouldn’t.

skoorbekim said:
really?

it is why CH posted the clip…

political talking point that assumes the person you are debating supported Bush…
Bush spent like a Liberal… Liberal policies have been governing this country for decades and the bank is busted…
look at the balance sheets… The current Entitlement system is unsustainable…

show me where the 1.6T is…

No. How about YOU show us how Ryan’s and the republicans plan is better.
Explain to us why 10 years of tax cuts FAILED but you support more of the same.

Now you are slipping into vapid slogans “Bush spent like a Liberal”
You forgot to add “Bush AND the republican congress”

I’d bet a grand that the meeting was filled with left wingers. Those would be the ones to boo at Ryan. Not saying all republicans are happy with changes in Medicare, but most clear thinking individuals realize this will not affect current seniors.

I would suggest that republicans “make their case.” At this time, the left has taken this issue and misconstrued the legislation.

Those who only listen to talking points are clueless. If people don’t delve into the legislation, they will only believe what their own party tells them is true.

Cobra said:
What part of those FACTS about wealth in America can’t you understand?

Look at your source…

The majority of wealth exists in the middle class…

define the income levels of the middle class… you can even use your economist teacher from UCSC to help you…

Class warfare never ends well…

skyfet said:
I cannot accept that, a lot of reasonable wouldn’t.

Any particular reason why?

Skippy said:
No. How about YOU show us how Ryan’s and the republicans plan is better.Explain to us why 10 years of tax cuts FAILED but you support more of the same. Now you are slipping into vapid slogans “Bush spent like a Liberal”You forgot to add “Bush AND the republican congress”

I am a conservative not a Republican…

The Gov’t is facing a spending problem that is at critical levels… Mathematically taxing can’t balance a budget that spends 3.6T… If you taxed every person making over 200k at 100% you still could not balance these spending levels…

Everything needs to be cut…
Zero base-line budgeting is the solution…

zero base line budgeting… you’ll be hearing that a lot over the next decade…

@Skippy…..Ryan’s plan would cut taxes to 25%, but it would close the loopholes for businesses and corporations. No longer could they write off equipment, expense accounts, etc. This would greatly add to the coffers.

BTW- The democrats “controlled” congress since January 1, 2007 through Jan. 1, 2011. So it wasn’t the republicans alone, who created this fiscal disaster….Both parties contributed to the financial mess we currently face.

Obama in 2 years, added more to the debt than Bush did in 8 years…..Do your research.

Jean-Luc said:
Any particular reason why?

Asking a working class to pay the same tax rate as a billionaire is morally bankrupt.

skyfet said:
Asking a working class to pay the same tax rate as a billionaire is morally bankrupt.

So you are against the sales tax?

skyfet said:
Asking a working class to pay the same tax rate as a billionaire is morally bankrupt.

Bankruptcy and your intellect , the two seem to be forever joined .

skoorbekim said:
I am a conservative not a Republican…

The Gov’t is facing a spending problem that is at critical levels… Mathematically taxing can’t balance a budget that spends 3.6T… If you taxed every person making over 200k at 100% you still could not balance these spending levels…

Everything needs to be cut…
Zero base-line budgeting is the solution…

zero base line budgeting… you’ll be hearing that a lot over the next decade…

LOL! Good one!

“I am a conservative not a republican…”

Pray do tell us… the republicans are what? Dope smoking wife swapping devil worshiping LBRULS?!??

I was 100% correct in my earlier statement. Delusional doesn’t even begin to describe you.

You know what beats a “conservative”?

A “real raygun conservative” – That little gem belongs to another “conservative,” Sean KKKlownnnity.

skyfet said:
You got trapped in your own question, now you are playing dumb, this is very funny. Pablo, why don’t you want to pay your fair share of tax, while enjoying the security the country provides?

I don’t mind paying for security, skyfet. When have I ever said otherwise? In fact, I’m fine with all 18 enumerated powers. If you’re going to make stuff up, it’s yours not mine. Own it.

Skippy said:
Delusional doesn’t even begin to describe you.

Skippy said:
KKKlownnnity.

Conservatives are crazy racists?!
…that is all Liberals have when talking about $’s and #’s…

discussion over…

I’m still waiting for one of you libs to tell us what % of their income the richest should pay. I’ve heard this question asked at least a 1000 times of libs and for some reason, they NEVER answer it.

Cobra said:
The rich SHOULD pay, because the RICH have the vast majority of the wealth.

Ah. They have it and YOU WANT IT, DAMMIT! Feckin’ looter.

Color Me Badd said:
Of course you don’t know why they don’t pay income tax right? How bout listening to an economist on this subject?

(Huffpo paste)

This is one of the easier teabag memes to knock down and enjoy it every chance I get. Tee Hee.

I’ve known a lot of “Badd” dudes in my day, but never one that goes around saying “Tee Hee.”

mamaearth said:
@Skippy…..Ryan’s plan would cut taxes to 25%, but it would close the loopholes for businesses and corporations. No longer could they write off equipment, expense accounts, etc. This would greatly add to the coffers.

BTW- The democrats “controlled” congress since January 1, 2007 through Jan. 1, 2011. So it wasn’t the republicans alone, who created this fiscal disaster….Both parties contributed to the financial mess we currently face.

Obama in 2 years, added more to the debt than Bush did in 8 years…..Do your research.

Let’s take your first statement.

“Ryan’s plan would cut taxes to 25%, but it would close the loopholes for businesses and corporations.”

Good. But businesses and corporations are not going to sit quietly and take it. They will increase the price of their products to maintain their profit margins.

What Obama had to do is similar to moving into a house or apartment trashed by the previous tenant. And one has to spend to fix the mess left behind.

skyfet said:
Fair is having a threshold of income to tax. You can’t possibly tell me you want to tax a man that makes $10000 at 10%, while taxing someone that makes $1000000 at the same percentage. Logic and basic human nature tells us that it isn’t fair.

“The ant works hard, in the withering heat, all summer long.
He builds his house and stores supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks that the ant is a fool.
He laughs, dances and plays the summer away, preparing nothing for the coming winter.

Winter comes, the ant is safe and warm.
The shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and fed, while others are cold and starving!

CBS, NBC, ABC & CNN show up to provide pictures of shivering grasshoppers, next to a video of an ant
in his comfortable home, with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast! How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor
grasshopper is allowed to suffer this way?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah, with the grasshopper.
Everyone cries when they sing “It’s Not Easy Being Green”.

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house, where the news stations film the group
singing “We Shall Overcome”.
Jesse then has the group pray for the grasshopper’s sake, and reminds the group to contribute to his group, so that he can “continue the fight” for grasshoppers, everywhere!

Ted Kennedy & John Kerry exclaim, in an interview with Tom Brokaw, that the ant has gotten rich, off
the back of the poor grasshopper!
Both call for an immediate tax hike, to make the ant pay “his fair share”!

Finally, the EEOC drafts the “Economic Equity For Grasshoppers Act”, retroactive to the beginning of the
summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire the proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to
pay his retroactive taxes, his house is confiscated by the government.

Hillary Clinton gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper, in a defamation suit against the ant.
The case is tried in federal court, with a jury comprised of unemployed welfare recipients.

Surprise! The ant loses the case!

The story ends, as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food, while the government house he lives in (which happens to be the ant’s old house) crumbles around him,
due to lack of maintenance!

The ant has disappeared in the snow.
The grasshopper is found, dead, in a drug-related incident.
The house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders, who terrorize this once-peaceful neighborhood. ”
”

The Ant and the Grasshopper, revised edition

Skippy said:
Explain to us why 10 years of tax cuts FAILED but you support more of the same.

Tax cuts failed? Then why did revenue grow under them until the recession? We don’t have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

Skippy said:
What Obama had to do is similar to moving into a house or apartment trashed by the previous tenant. And one has to spend to fix the mess left behind.

And pimp the shit out of the place.

Paul Ryan is correct. The “constituent” was a plant.

Pablo said:
Tax cuts failed? Then why did revenue grow under them until the recession? We don’t have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html

Pretty stale talking points there, Jules.

im_lovin_it said:
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html Pretty stale talking points there, Jules.

Look at your linked chart again… they did go up… 2407 is higher than 2025…
factcheck.org strikes again…

Liberal Tormentor said:
I’m still waiting for one of you libs to tell us what % of their income the richest should pay. I’ve heard this question asked at least a 1000 times of libs and for some reason, they NEVER answer it.

Start with this. ALL income will be taxed at the same rate. Money is fungible. That is the mantra of the far-right when funding for Planned Parenthood comes up. “All money is the same, it goes in the same pot.” RIGHT?
Following that theory, capital gains and interest should be taxed at the same rate as labor. Stock options should be considered taxable income.
I’m willing to consider a top rate of 35%, pending full overhaul of the tax code and removal of loopholes.
Income taken offshore should receive a treble tax penalty.

skoorbekim said:
Look at your linked chart again… they did go up… 2407 is higher than 2025…
factcheck.org strikes again…

The article’s conclusion:
“The impact of the tax cuts on economic growth is a matter of debate among economists. We’re not voicing a view on whether the tax cuts should have been enacted; that, too, is a separate discussion. But it is clear they did not “increase revenues.”"

Pablo appeared to be insinuating that the tax cuts caused revenue to grow. That’s pretty played out. Perhaps I misinterpreted his argument?

Furthermore, “factcheck.org strikes again?” So what is trustworthy? The Heritage Foundation? Come on….

Pablo said:
Tax cuts failed? Then why did revenue grow under them until the recession? We don’t have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

Here we go again.

Bush and the republicans projected paying the national debt in 10 years with the supposed additional revenue captured by the magical tax cuts.

I am only going by memory here, so I could be wrong, but I remember that as far back as 2001 or 2002 Bush started sending “mini-tax rebates” trying to stimulate the economy, with mixed results, on and off.

Now, did you look at the chart you are linking?

From 2000 to 2003, revenue drops. From 2003 to 2008 revenue ascends with about the same slope (pay attention here) than during 95 to 2000. Then from 2008 to 2010, revenue takes a really ugly dive.

My point here. During 95 to 2000, Clinton years, revenue was collected with about the same rate than 2003 to 2008 – Bush tax cuts years. In other words, there was no magical increase in taxes collected because businesses were earning more money. From 2002 onward, spending is larger than revenues. Those are the Bush years.

And please don’t give us that BS about “Bush spent like a LBRUL!”

Had the Bush tax cuts increased revenue, the slope for the the revenue curve would be steeper.

Liberal Tormentor said:
I’m still waiting for one of you libs to tell us what % of their income the richest should pay. I’ve heard this question asked at least a 1000 times of libs and for some reason, they NEVER answer it.

If we’re in a recession, I think they should be taxed at 50% if they make over a two million… but this is something that should be monitored so it doesn’t get out of control.

im_lovin_it said:
insinuating that the tax cuts caused revenue to grow

historically it has…

factcheck is funded by the Annenburg Foundation… ring any political bells?

The Laffer Curve has proven to be accurate, especially under Reagan’s tax cuts…

you must admit that there is a rate that maximizes revenue…

im_lovin_it said:
Pretty stale talking points there, Jules.

Those aren’t talking points. They’re numbers. Spending and revenue. Do the math.

Skippy said:
Bush and the republicans projected paying the national debt in 10 years with the supposed additional revenue captured by the magical tax cuts.

Right. What they didn’t figure on was 9/11, two wars and a housing collapse. Still, how they figured on doing it while spending like drunken sailors is beyond me.

George C said:
“The ant works hard, in the withering heat, all summer long.
He builds his house and stores supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks that the ant is a fool.
He laughs, dances and plays the summer away, preparing nothing for the coming winter.

Winter comes, the ant is safe and warm.
The shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and fed, while others are cold and starving!

CBS, NBC, ABC & CNN show up to provide pictures of shivering grasshoppers, next to a video of an ant
in his comfortable home, with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast! How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor
grasshopper is allowed to suffer this way?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah, with the grasshopper.
Everyone cries when they sing “It’s Not Easy Being Green”.

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house, where the news stations film the group
singing “We Shall Overcome”.
Jesse then has the group pray for the grasshopper’s sake, and reminds the group to contribute to his group, so that he can “continue the fight” for grasshoppers, everywhere!

Ted Kennedy & John Kerry exclaim, in an interview with Tom Brokaw, that the ant has gotten rich, off
the back of the poor grasshopper!
Both call for an immediate tax hike, to make the ant pay “his fair share”!

Finally, the EEOC drafts the “Economic Equity For Grasshoppers Act”, retroactive to the beginning of the
summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire the proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to
pay his retroactive taxes, his house is confiscated by the government.

Hillary Clinton gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper, in a defamation suit against the ant.
The case is tried in federal court, with a jury comprised of unemployed welfare recipients.

Surprise! The ant loses the case!

The story ends, as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food, while the government house he lives in (which happens to be the ant’s old house) crumbles around him,
due to lack of maintenance!

The ant has disappeared in the snow.
The grasshopper is found, dead, in a drug-related incident.
The house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders, who terrorize this once-peaceful neighborhood. ”
”

The Ant and the Grasshopper, revised edition

This is all assuming the rich got rich through hard work and not fucking over the middle and lower class.

Thanks for your reply, Jon, even if I don’t agree with it. I think 50% is WAY too high and not necessary if we would get serious once and for all about cutting spending. It’s not fair to ask the top, who are the job creators, to pay more just because we aren’t willing to cut spending.

skoorbekim said:
historically it has…

factcheck is funded by the Annenburg Foundation… ring any political bells?

The Laffer Curve has proven to be accurate, especially under Reagan’s tax cuts…

you must admit that there is a rate that maximizes revenue…

Walter Annenburg was one of the primary funders of “666″, “The Devil Incarnate”, a/k/a RONALD WILSON REAGAN!
His father, Moe Annenburg, ran the betting wire that transmitted race results to bookies throughout the country. He laundered his money through ownership of TV Guide. Enough bells for you?
As for the Laughter Curve, outside of Heritage and Cato it is considered the symbol of “Voodoo Economics”.

Pablo said:
I don’t mind paying for security, skyfet. When have I ever said otherwise? In fact, I’m fine with all 18 enumerated powers. If you’re going to make stuff up, it’s yours not mine. Own it.

Yet you support a party that wants to gamble peoples saving in wall street. Gamble with your own money, not with other peoples savings.

Pablo said:
Right. What they didn’t figure on was 9/11, two wars and a housing collapse. Still, how they figured on doing it while spending like drunken sailors is beyond me.

Let’s look at your chart again.

Looks like the point with the last balanced figures, where the blue and red line intersect, is around 2002.

When did the Iraq war start? Who said the Iraq war would pay for itself? Who said “six days, six weeks, six months” referring to the length of the occupation?

Who are those still braying that de-regulation and less government supervision produce well behaved businesses? When did the housing market collapse?

Pablo said:
Those aren’t talking points. They’re numbers. Spending and revenue. Do the math.

What numbers? That is the noise you get when you pull the string on a GOP doll
Name one congressman who has refused to accept any money personally or for his district since taking office. One who refuses to spend the revenue collected. One.

Joseph Glackin said:
Walter Annenburg was one of the primary funders of “666″, “The Devil Incarnate”, a/k/a RONALD WILSON REAGAN!

Annenburg Foundation has drifted far from Walter… he retired back in the 1990′s and died a decade ago…

all economics to you is probably a form of voodoo…

skyfet said:
Yet you support a party that wants to gamble peoples saving in wall street.

You support a party that wants to take those savings by force and just spend them. Blow your own money, not other peoples.

Joseph Glackin said:
What numbers? That is the noise you get when you pull the string on a GOP doll

Spending and revenue. If you can’t keep up with the conversation, Joey, butt out of it.

Name one congressman who has refused to accept any money personally or for his district since taking office. One who refuses to spend the revenue collected. One.

What the hell does that even mean? Since when do congresscritters “accept” money for their districts?

Pablo said:
You support a party that wants to take those savings by force and just spend them. Blow your own money, not other peoples.

That is just false, protecting SS is different from the jokers who want to gamble with it. Do you enjoy gambling on other folks dime?

Spending is not the same thing as protecting, skyfet. They Spent. It. All.

skyfet said:
Asking a working class to pay the same tax rate as a billionaire is morally bankrupt.

Ok, let me try this one more time. I realize you disagree with the concept of a single tax rate for all.

You have still not articulated why you feel that to be the case.

“I don’t like it,” simply doesn’t pass muster. You must explain your reasoning if you want to be taken seriously.

Polls show Ryan and the conservative posters on this board are completely out of line with the American people. Even 73% of Republicans don’t want to privatize Medicare. And over 70% of the people are okay with increasing taxes on the wealthiest 2%.

It so easy to express for all you trolls to express outrage over raising taxes for the wealthy, while ignoring that the burdens on the middle class and poor have increased substantially in the form of higher college costs, fees for parks, sales tax, and huge cuts in key programs and services that help our citizens improve their lives and become more productive (i.e. day care, library hours, public education and health services, etc.).

Tax breaks for corporations, subsidies for agribusiness and big oil, privatizing Social Security, Medicare vouchers, and bail outs for Wall Street are all the same thing. A redistribution of wealth going to the rich, while shifting the responsibility of running the government on the backs of the middle class. I guess the real socialists are the fat cats and the tea partyiers.

Yes, they recently created more jobs in China.

BruinAlum77 said:
Polls show Ryan and the conservative posters on this board are completely out of line with the American people.

Liberal positions vs poll #’s:
Support for Obamacare… underwater
Opposition to SB1070… 30-70%
Support for Cap & Trade… 30-70%
Support for PEUs… underwater

tell me how to balance a 3.6T budget… pen to paper, find the 1.6T needed…

AWESOME VIDEO

LOL

now people are figuring out Ryan’s joke of a plan and it’s BLOWING UP IN HIS FACE

AWESOME
HILARIOUS

Thelonious Funk said:
Clearly this constituent didn’t read some book by some random Russian girl that proves scientifically, beyond a shadow of a doubt that libertarianism is the only way to go by, using a methodology called fictional writing.

Actually, she came from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. You know, that shinning example of the great things that can be achieved in a country with a centrally planned economy where the government regulates just about everything.

No matter what party, the bottom-feeders who think that what someone else has earned, somehow belongs to them is as wrong as it gets. That’s the convoluted thinking of a socialist. When the top 2% of earners is paying nearly half of the taxes collected, that tells me somethings wrong with the tax system, and the thinking of those who think that their not paying enough. Those that buy into this idiocy are the same people who will tell you in the same-breath that people who live on welfare are parasites, without ever considering the fact that their doing the same thing! Living off of what other earn is WELFARE, no matter how you look at it.
Our tax-system is a joke. Every wage earner should be being paying their fair share, no matter how little their making. The only tax system that comes close to being equitable is the FAIR-TAX system with a level of taxing that doesn’t top 22%. Everyone pays that amount no matter their wage level.

skyfet said:
And your phony-self didn’t mention that the poor make that up in sales tax and other similar expenditure that the wealthy do not make. .

How do you figure that the rich don’t pay sales taxes?

No no, they’re saying Boo-urns…

Skyfet:

The poor make up what in sales tax? Are you suggesting that the sales tax everyone pays somehow equals the tax on money earned? That somehow, receiving $5 in welfare, and social services for every $3 they pay in taxes is their fair share? How did you arrive at that reasoning?

Joseph Glackin said:
Start with this. ALL income will be taxed at the same rate. Money is fungible. That is the mantra of the far-right when funding for Planned Parenthood comes up. “All money is the same, it goes in the same pot.” RIGHT?Following that theory, capital gains and interest should be taxed at the same rate as labor. Stock options should be considered taxable income.I’m willing to consider a top rate of 35%, pending full overhaul of the tax code and removal of loopholes.Income taken offshore should receive a treble tax penalty.

Charlie Rangel would never agree to that!

Snowspot said:
If we’re in a recession, I think they should be taxed at 50% if they make over a two million… but this is something that should be monitored so it doesn’t get out of control.

You should throw in protective tariffs then you failed economic picture would be complete.

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHH!!!!

YOU RIGHTIES ARE DONE!!! DONE, I TELL YA!!!!

THIS WHOLE RYAN BUDGET THAT KILLS MEDICARE IS ABOUT TO BLOW UP IN YOUR FACES!!!

YOU THINK THOSE HEALTH CARE TOWN HALL MEETINGS WERE BAD….WAIT TILL THE CLOWN RIGHTIES HAVE TO FACE THEIR CONSTITUENTS!!!

THE LEFTIES ARE LAUGHING!!! THEY ARE GOING TO POUND AND POUND THE RIGHTIES WITH THIS!!!

RYAN AND HIS AYN RAND IDEAS IS GOING TO TAKE YOU CLOWN RIGHTIES DOWN!!!!

HILARIOUS!!! SIMPLY COMEDY!!!!

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH!!!!!

Pablo said:
Right. What they didn’t figure on was 9/11, two wars and a housing collapse. Still, how they figured on doing it while spending like drunken sailors is beyond me.

The problem always happens when you have the House, the Senate and the White House controlled by one political party. Doesn’t matter which party.

As for raising taxes to lower the deficit, when was the last time we had a period of increasing revenues and decreasing spending?

The conservatives do care about the old and poor, to a point! They clearly don’t understand then. The tea cry has been, fear, fear,fear, cut, cut, cut, to what end, that’s what you never hear. Older persons conservative or not, don’t want their programs cut! Even with a town hall full of teas, all they see is “I can’t afford more and sure can’t let you take anything away! Crazy sells and is hot now, but when they have to pay for crazy, they don’t want to spend much!

I’m so sick of rich bashing, tell me poor people, do you work for someone poor? No. So stop hating the rich or move to Cuba where everyone except Fidel Castro and his cronies is poor.

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

PoliticallyIncorrectLibertarian said:
I’m so sick of rich bashing, tell me poor people, do you work for someone poor? No. So stop hating the rich or move to Cuba where everyone except Fidel Castro and his cronies is poor.

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

You act as if life was just peachy BEFORE Castro under Right-Winged dictator Fulgencio Batista.
It. was. not.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/fulgencio_batista.htm

CAconservative said:
No matter what party, the bottom-feeders who think that what someone else has earned, somehow belongs to them is as wrong as it gets. That’s the convoluted thinking of a socialist. When the top 2% of earners is paying nearly half of the taxes collected, that tells me somethings wrong with the tax system, and the thinking of those who think that their not paying enough. Those that buy into this idiocy are the same people who will tell you in the same-breath that people who live on welfare are parasites, without ever considering the fact that their doing the same thing! Living off of what other earn is WELFARE, no matter how you look at it.
Our tax-system is a joke. Every wage earner should be being paying their fair share, no matter how little their making. The only tax system that comes close to being equitable is the FAIR-TAX system with a level of taxing that doesn’t top 22%. Everyone pays that amount no matter their wage level.

You still don’t get it, do you? The top 1% owns over ONE THIRD OF THE WEALTH in America. Why the HELL shouldn’t they pay the most taxes? What’s wrong with you?
You don’t even CONSIDER the fact the many of the ULTRA RICH don’t even “earn” money anymore…they accrue interest and dividends on investment, which right wingers like Ryan want to eliminate taxes on.
Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple has a salary of exactly $1 a year. You’re saying it’s “fair” for him to pay .22 cents a year in taxes, when he gets most of his wealth from capital gains on his 133 MILLION SHARES of Apple Stock?
(350.70 +8.29‎ (2.42%‎))

–Cobra

I attended a town hall with my newly elected representative, Pat Meehan (R-PA), last night.

The crowd seemed to be about evenly divided, politically. The more specific the questions he was asked (Planned Parenthood, Ryan’s Medicare/tax proposal), the more vague he got. He used well-worn Republican catch-phrases about “creating opportunities” without providing details (much like Ryan’s bill). He told us the tax bill was “revenue neutral” but failed to explain that this is achieved by requiring more money from Medicare/Medicaid recipients and giving more to the wealthy.

When confronted on the issue by a constituent, Meehan evaded his voting record on Planned Parenthood, even though he voted against it. In a poignant moment, a young woman pointed out that Planned parenthood saved her life by finding cervical cancer at an early stage.

When asked when the Ryan plan would balance the budget, he said he didn’t know. While not heartening, at least he admitted not knowing. (I saw a media report that mentioned a decades-long timeline to balance but can’t recall the source.)

He campaigned on supporting Medicare but voted in favor of the Ryan bill, which essentially ends Medicare – an assertion he would not concur with even though it is a fact.

He said he’d done five meetings earlier in the day. Despite those five “warm-ups” and being a former federal prosecutor, he didn’t appear very polished or particularly well-spoken. Hemming-and-hawing make one appear insincere or dishonest. On the other hand, he didn’t come off as a “city-slicker,” either.

On the whole, I found the event less than satisfying or informative. Perhaps he needs more experience in such venues.

skyfet said:
And your phony-self didn’t mention that the poor make that up in sales tax and other similar expenditure that the wealthy do not make. .

Are you serious? Are you saying that sales tax is regressive? If so you are a liar. If not, tell me how the bottom 48% of wage earners “make that up” in sales tax or “similar expenditures.” From your statement, it appears as if you are insinuating that the 52% of wage earners that pay income tax don’t pay sales tax or other expenditures while the bottom 48% who don’t pay income tax make up the difference by paying sales tax and other expenditures.

Cobra said:
You act as if life was just peachy BEFORE Castro under Right-Winged dictator Fulgencio Batista.
It. was. not.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/fulgencio_batista.htm

You still don’t get it, do you? The top 1% owns over ONE THIRD OF THE WEALTH in America. Why the HELL shouldn’t they pay the most taxes? What’s wrong with you?
You don’t even CONSIDER the fact the many of the ULTRA RICH don’t even “earn” money anymore…they accrue interest and dividends on investment, which right wingers like Ryan want to eliminate taxes on.
Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple has a salary of exactly $1 a year. You’re saying it’s “fair” for him to pay .22 cents a year in taxes, when he gets most of his wealth from capital gains on his 133 MILLION SHARES of Apple Stock?
(350.70 +8.29‎ (2.42%‎))

–Cobra

The problem is you goofy liberals ALWAYS work to make the rich more poor instead of working to make the poor more rich.

Go to a poor country and the rich own everything. The US hase been a beacon of hope because we have had a great system that allows people to gain wealth and move up.

Most statistics liberals use never consider the fact that people move up and down income levels (and thus tax brackets). For our history, people, have mostly moved UP. With you liberals running things everyone moves down a bracket.

A good article on the subject (originally in WSJ): http://www.krusekronicle.com/2007/11/movin-on-up.html

Alz said:
The problem is you goofy liberals ALWAYS work to make the rich more poor instead of working to make the poor more rich.

First, let me be completely accurate, and correct something I posted earlier. Steve Jobs does NOT own 133 Million shares of Apple Stock. He owns 138 Million shares of Disney Stock.

“As of October 2009, Jobs owned 5.426 million shares of Apple, most of which was granted in 2003 when Jobs was given 10 million shares. He also owned 138 million shares of Disney, which he had received in exchange for Disney’s acquisition of Pixar.[57] Forbes estimated his net wealth at $5.1 billion in 2009, making him the 43rd wealthiest American.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

Under the Paul Ryan plan, passed by the GOP House, Steve Jobs would owe exactly .10 cents in Federal Taxes, despite the millions he makes on the Stock market almost daily.

Alz, do you even KNOW what the official poverty level is in America?
“For comparison, the 2011 HHS poverty guideline for a family of 4 is $22,350.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Alz, Steve Jobs makes that two seconds after the opening bell rings on Wall Street each weekday morning, so how on EARTH would the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts going to cause him to become “poor?”

Alz said:
The US hase been a beacon of hope because we have had a great system that allows people to gain wealth and move up.

There are rich people in other countries. Don’t spread the lie that America is the only place for opportunity.
You just want senior citizens to suffer so that Steve Jobs can get even MORE rich.
You want to deny smart, college bound kids scholarships and pell grants so that only RICH kids can go to college.
You want to strip families with disabilities access to quality medical care.

Why, Alz?

–Cobra

Cobra said:
First, let me be completely accurate, and correct something I posted earlier. Steve Jobs does NOT own 133 Million shares of Apple Stock. He owns 138 Million shares of Disney Stock.

“As of October 2009, Jobs owned 5.426 million shares of Apple, most of which was granted in 2003 when Jobs was given 10 million shares. He also owned 138 million shares of Disney, which he had received in exchange for Disney’s acquisition of Pixar.[57] Forbes estimated his net wealth at $5.1 billion in 2009, making him the 43rd wealthiest American.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

Under the Paul Ryan plan, passed by the GOP House, Steve Jobs would owe exactly .10 cents in Federal Taxes, despite the millions he makes on the Stock market almost daily.

Alz, do you even KNOW what the official poverty level is in America?
“For comparison, the 2011 HHS poverty guideline for a family of 4 is $22,350.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Alz, Steve Jobs makes that two seconds after the opening bell rings on Wall Street each weekday morning, so how on EARTH would the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts going to cause him to become “poor?”

There are rich people in other countries. Don’t spread the lie that America is the only place for opportunity.
You just want senior citizens to suffer so that Steve Jobs can get even MORE rich.
You want to deny smart, college bound kids scholarships and pell grants so that only RICH kids can go to college.
You want to strip families with disabilities access to quality medical care.

Why, Alz?

–Cobra

No, YOU don’t get it. Steve Jobs has created THOUSANDS of jobs because of HIS ideas.

What we need is to go back to our system where we focused on setting up the circumstances and ingredients so people can succeed. Taking Steve Job’s wealth isn’t going to help the millions of poor. It just won’t work.

If you take $5 billion and say give it to 10,000,000 poor people, each one of them would only get $500 AND all of that wealth would be gone – unavailable for future investment.

I understand where you are coming from, but the path you are suggesting does not lead to prosperity for people.

RichS said:
How do you figure that the rich don’t pay sales taxes?

Could it be because they have their caviar flown in from Russia and their champagne from France on their private jets celebrating how nobody has a clue?

Alz said:
No, YOU don’t get it. Steve Jobs has created THOUSANDS of jobs because of HIS ideas.

In what country? Where are Apple products made?

Alz said:
What we need is to go back to our system where we focused on setting up the circumstances and ingredients so people can succeed. Taking Steve Job’s wealth isn’t going to help the millions of poor. It just won’t work.

“In the late 1970s, Jobs, with Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak, Mike Markkula,[12] and others, designed, developed, and marketed one of the first commercially successful lines of personal computers, the Apple II series. ”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

Alz, in the late 1970′s the highest marginal tax rate was 70%. It didn’t stop Steve Jobs and his partners from creating Apple Computers. Stop crying for the rich.

Alz said:
If you take $5 billion and say give it to 10,000,000 poor people, each one of them would only get $500 AND all of that wealth would be gone – unavailable for future investment.

How is NOT TAXING BILLIONAIRES AT ALL going to solve this “debt-deficit” problem you right wingers are suddenly concerned about?

“[Paul] O’Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: “We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due.” A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired.
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Dick_Cheney_Budget_+_Economy.htm

–Cobra

More Liberty5 said:
Are you serious? Are you saying that sales tax is regressive? If so you are a liar. If not, tell me how the bottom 48% of wage earners “make that up” in sales tax or “similar expenditures.” From your statement, it appears as if you are insinuating that the 52% of wage earners that pay income tax don’t pay sales tax or other expenditures while the bottom 48% who don’t pay income tax make up the difference by paying sales tax and other expenditures.

I’ve noticed you are using the liar term frequently nowadays, it appears that I’m getting under your skin. This is because you don’t get called out on your phony crap, a lot. I’m sorry if it hurts your feeling, but am not going to let you get away with it.

First of all, you need to separate the very wealthy from the middle and low earners. The very wealthy do not spend a large proportion of their income on basic amenities, they usually save it or keep it in stock (which has a low tax anyway). Whereas the poor spend a large proportion of their income in basic amenities (goods and services), which is liable to sales/use tax.