im a conservative atheist and pussies like this wingrove guy make me want to punch them in the face.

thats why athesist get a bad name, some not all have to make fun of other peoples religious beliefs to feel good

“…a pattern that, he argues, is no different than any other religion”
—————————————————————————————–

That’s the thing I’ve been saying here on Mediaite about Secularism – it’s a religion with no deity figure.
Are you sure this guy’s a liberal?

No, damn it Thom, you’re wrong, I don’t believe, I don’t believe, I just don’t.

So…. science is a “belief system”? According to Thom’s argument that well can be..

cjd ohio 1 said:
thats why athesist get a bad name, some not all have to make fun of other peoples religious beliefs to feel good

Well some of them have..

I have had arguments on religion, but one has to be respectful about it, not just scream at their faces.

I’m an atheist and I conclude… Wingrove stinks, he didn’t call out Hartmann on obvious illogical fallacies and he only defended himself instead of keeping it an even argument, by only defending himself he opened himself up to criticism.

I think I’m one of the very few atheists who think this campaign is bollocks anyway, I’ve yet to see a negative comment on them and I visit atheist community sites/blogs often.

Looks like Tommy has thrown KO under the bus and has a new guy to promote!

Flash in the Pan? Keith Olbermann’s Ratings Drop 30% by Second Week!
• Posted on July 6, 2011 at 6:45pm by Tiffany Gabbay
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/flash-in-the-pan-keith-olbermanns-ratings-drop-30-by-second-week/

Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
“Easy Money”

It’s difficult. It’s very tough.
I said to the man who’d been sleeping rough
To sit within a fragrant breeze
All among the nodding trees
That hang heavy with the stuff

He threw his arms around my neck
He brushed the tear from my cheek
And held my soft white hand
He was an understanding man
He did not even barely hardly speak

Easy money
Rain it down on the wife and the kids
Rain it down on the house where we live
Rain until you got nothing left to give
And rain that ever-loving stuff down on me

All the things for which my heart yearns
Gives joy in diminishing returns
He kissed me on the mouth
His hands they headed south
And my cheek it burned

Money, man, it is a bitch
The poor, they spoil it for the rich
With my face pressed in the clover
I wondered when this would be over
And at home we are all so guilty-sad

Easy money
Pour it down the open drain
Pour it all through my veins
Pour it down, yeah, let it rain
And pour that ever-loving stuff down on me

Now, I’m sitting pretty down on the bank
Life shuffles past at a low interest rate
In the money-coloured meadows
And all the interesting shadows
They leap up, then dissipate

Easy money
Easy money
Easy money
Rain it down on the wife and the kids
Rain it down on the house where we live
Rain it down until you got nothing left to give
And rain that ever-loving stuff down on me.

@ jddoubleu…you’re an idiot

The other so-called atheists on here need to get their head out of their collective @sses, and not take things on face value, or superficial explanations. It’s ironic that some atheists just accept bullshit and don’t question where it comes from or how it got there…I call that Intellectually lazy.

Anyway if you had done just the absolute minimum of investigative research {google it..HELLO!} you would have discover that Thom Thom Hartmann “aka Catholic Stooge and water boy” has made this “atheism is a religion” crusade a personal agenda that he pushes on his show:

April 02, 2008
Atheism isn’t a religion, Thom Hartmann
http://hinessight.blogs.com/hinessight/2008/04/atheism-isnt-a.html

Last time I checked Thom Hartmann invited Rick Wingrove onto his show to talk about Atheist Banners on the 4th of July, not be subjected to Thom Hartmann’s personal crusade…What’s that called when the moderator of the show ignores the subject and dives into a complete tangent…oh yeah BILL O’ REILLYism…simply put Lack of Business Accumen, and professionalism:

Bill O’Reilly v. Dave Silverman – You KNOW they’re all SCAMS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BCipg71LbI

“Tides goes in, Tide comes out…never a miscommunication, who can explain that?”

Hartman has absolutely no clue what he’s talking about and Wingrove fell for a typical logical trap..however, it does not invalidate what Wingrove said… Take for example the following exchange (taken from Georg H Smit’s Book: Atheism The Case Against God)

Christian: You claim that man gains knowledge of reality through his sense, but I submit that our sense are deceptive. Since we cannot rationally defend the reliability of sensory evidence, we must place trust in them as a matter of faith.

Atheist: Why do you say that?

Christian: Because our senses give us contradictory testimony, and even you stress that contradictions cannot exist. Look, I’ll prove it to you by taking this pencil and placing it in…

Atheist: Excuse me for a moment. If I understand correctly, you are going to demonstrate that our senses do not give us accurate knowledge of reality. Is this correct?

Christian: Yes

Atheist: Then you cannot start from the prior assumption that our senses do give us accurate knowledge of reality, because this would entail accepting the truth of the very proposition which you wish to disprove. Do you agree?

Christian: Of Course

Atheist Then you won’t mind if, from this point on, I don’t grant you this assumption.

Christian: Naturally. Now may I proceed with my demonstration?

Atheist: (staring in the opposite direction–no answer).

Christian: I said, may I proceed?

Atheist: (startled). Did I hear something?

Christian: (irritated) I’m talking to you.

Atheist: I beg your pardon.

Christian: Are you going to be serious or not? Here I am trying to carry on an intelligent philosophical conversation, and you’re acting silly.

Atheist: (squinting his eyes) It looks and sounds like you are talking to me, but then I can’t be certain, since I never trust what I see and hear. In fact, I can’t be sure that you are actually sitting there.

Christian: I insist that you behave reasonably!

Atheist: If I could only trust what I see and hear, I might be able to reply–assuming of course that I could trust you, if you’re really there, to hear what I actually say. But, then, I couldn’t be sure that what I hear myself saying is what I’ve siad, because…

Christian: All right, you’ve made your point. Have it your way. Assume, for the sake of argument, that we are communicating accurately. I admit that it cannot be proven, but assume it for now.

Atheist: Why?

Christian: So I can make my point.

Atheist: I must assume, in other words, that my senses are NOT deceptive-at least as they pertain to this conversation–so that you can get your argument off the ground to ‘prove’ that this entire assumption is unfounded. If your argument is correct, you don’t have the means with which to make your point. Through your attempt at communication and argument, you are admitting the validity of sense perception–and, therefore, by arguing that sense pecreption is deceptive, you cut the ground from under your own feet and become mired in a hopeless absurdity….

Seriously? Flying a non-obtrusive banner for a few hours hundreds of feet above the ground is ‘proselytizing, obnoxious, or evangelism’? Then what’s the word for the overzealous people who come in pairs to ring my doorbell incessantly at dinnertime and invade my personal privacy to spread the word of jesus and tell me I’m going to hell? I suppose that we Atheists should be ashamed to make our existence publicly known, to point out the obvious – that the emperor has no clothes. Thom Hartmann didn’t “set any record straight”, he only showed himself to be pretty dense, insisting that the absence of religion is actually some kind of religion, and his “catholic church is awesome!” mentality pretty much speaks for itself. Pray tell, what is our atheist deity, what is our holy book, how does atheism do any harm to anyone in the world (unlike theism)? We don’t have a skyfairy telling gays they aren’t entitled to equal rights or trying to take away the rights of women to control their own reproduction or invading/occupying other countries indefinitely because it’s ‘god’s will’ or brainwashing our kids with a mindless daily pledge ‘under no god’. I have plenty of christian friends and the beliefs they hold, the worship in which they participate at home or in church or in private institutions, do not concern me; they are absolutely free to believe whatever they want, and I respect that right. And if all theists would learn to check their religion at the door and stop trying to force it on the rest of us through asinine legislation and intrusion in the public sector, and learn to respect the boundaries between church and state, we wouldn’t be having these issues.

Isn’t an atheist and a liberal basically the same thing?

@EmailEveryone…

No Atheism and Liberalism are not basically the same thing:

——————————————————————————

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, “of freedom”)[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but most liberals support such fundamental ideas as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, free trade, and the freedom of religion

————————————————————————————————–

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]

The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning “without god”, which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as “atheist” appeared in the 18th century.[7]

Atheists tend to be skeptical of supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence. Atheists have offered various rationales for not believing in any deity. These include the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, and the argument from nonbelief. Other arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to the social to the historical. Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies,[8][9] there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[10]

In Western culture, some atheists are frequently assumed to be irreligious,[11] although other atheists are spiritual.[12][13] Moreover, atheism also figures in certain religious and spiritual belief systems, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Neopagan movements,[14] such as Wicca.[15] Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods,[16] whereas Hinduism holds atheism to be valid, but difficult to follow spiritually.[17]

Since conceptions of atheism vary, determining how many atheists exist in the world today is no easy task.[18] According to one estimate, about 2.3% of the world’s population are atheists, while a further 11.9% are nonreligious.[19] According to another, rates of self-reported atheism are among the highest in Western nations, although also to quite varying degrees—United States (4%), Italy (7%), Spain (11%), Great Britain (17%), Germany (20%), and France (32%).[20]

EmailEveryone said:
Isn’t an atheist and a liberal basically the same thing?

No, I know quite a few Christians who are liberal. I even consider myself pretty liberal from a social angle. The truth is that the liberal sect of Christianity is growing and not likely to go anywhere.

While I have no problems with atheists, I have yet to talk to one who doesn’t come across any better than the fire & brimstone street preacher telling me I’m going to hell because I’m going to a Rush concert. That whole honey vs vinegar comparison goes a long way

carlinist said:
So…. science is a “belief system”? According to Thom’s argument that well can be..

In a way, it is. Empiricism is dependent on your faith in your senses. Post-positivism, the current model of scientific inquiry, places strong emphasis on falsifiability and fallibilism.

But unlike classical belief systems, science is dependent on observable evidence that is reliable and replicable.

@bealzebubba:

Then you don’t know many atheists, so I suggest you try to make some more friends…b/c there are a lot more atheists out there then you realize…in fact it could be that someone close to you is an atheist but you wouldn’t know b/c perhaps you need an attitude adjustment, or you need to educate yourself a little more on Atheism, and therefore would become a little more well-rounded and attractive to those who might want to come out of the closet.

As far as the whole honey vs. Vinegar…I bet your entire impression of Atheism is based on the media, and what your peer group believes to be true. I invite you to challenge yourself by thinking outside the box…

Start by doing a “Google Search” for the word atheist, and atheism.

Then you might better understand why “IT TAKES ALL KINDS” of folks in order to make a movement work. Sometimes it helps to employ honey, but sometimes in the face of true bigotry and malice, one needs to stand up for oneself.