Of course, Pat, Palin is always a victim. We all know that.

I don’t always agree with Pat, but he is 110% correct here. How fitting that he got to say it to the face of one of the dispensers of that hate.

Pat is either intentionally misleading or is just full of crap.

Liberals are good; therefore, anyone who disagrees with them must be bad.

Buchanan concluded, “this woman is not a dispenser of hate, she’s a victim of hate,” to which Shrum excitedly responded, “she’s no victim, she’s been out there taunting people for two years.”

I agree with Shrum,Palin gets what she dishes out.

Palin was McCain’s hail mary pass that failed. She believed she was more important than she was. She’s cooked.

Well at least Sarah has the full support of Holocaust Deniers like Pat Buchanan.

While I do not agree with the premise that Palin is 100% guilty, to say she is 100% innocent is false as well. Sometimes the criticism of her is rightfully deserved and sometimes it’s just incoherent rage. One thing I do know is that playing Palin as the victim is getting old, she needs to know when to just let some things be. It comes off as more mature and less arrogant and narcissistic. Will she get there? I hope so, I really do.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
I don’t always agree with Pat, but he is 110% correct here. How fitting that he got to say it to the face of one of the dispensers of that hate.

Of course, you worship daily at the Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Victimhood. Your perspective may be skewed.

Jackyboy said:
While I do not agree with the premise that Palin is 100% guilty, to say she is 100% innocent is false as well. Sometimes the criticism of her is rightfully deserved and sometimes it’s just incoherent rage. One thing I do know is that playing Palin as the victim is getting old, she needs to know when to just let some things be. It comes off as more mature and less arrogant and narcissistic. Will she get there? I hope so, I really do.

How is she any more guilty than her left-wing counterparts in the media who have no more of a relationship to this shooter or his crime than anyone else?

skyfet said:
Pat is either intentionally misleading or is just full of crap.

OR as rumored, wrote the speech.

Sean68 said:
How is she any more guilty than her left-wing counterparts in the media who have no more of a relationship to this shooter or his crime than anyone else?

Anticipating the reply: what evidence is there that this lunatic even saw, let alone was motivated by, Palin’s target map, an exact duplicate of a map used by the DNC back in 2004?

The Real Royal King says:

Blah, Blah, Bhal

Hey does anyone know how to get rid of a giant cockroach?

Wow! Common sense on MSNBC? Palin is a victim of hate by the smear merchants and Pat is absolutely 100% correct. And while maybe not appropritate for her to say about herself, a blood libel has been hurled at her.

C’mon King, call me (borne of a Jewish mother) an Anti-Semite. I dare you.

Sarah has been spouting hate since the day she walked on the national stage.

Without hate, bigotry and propaganda the GOP could not exist in this country.

How else can you get people to vote for a party if all you thought they cared about was rich people.

The greatest con the Republican party has pulled on middle white class Americans was conning them into believing that when Republicans say freedom for Americans they really mean Americans.

When they are really talking about corporations having the freedom to do whatever they want.

If your not in the top 2% of income earners you should never vote Republican.

sharksbreath said:

If your not in the top 2% of income earners you should never vote Republican.

Ya know, there’s actually a term for this idea you espouse: economism. The idea that the most important thing to a person should be how much money one makes.

Sharksbreath says:

Sarah has been spouting hate since the day she walked on the national stage

See, you libs think saying anything contrary to your world view is hate speech, but that isn’t actually so.

No matter what Palin does she will still be a victim of smear by the liberals who have yet to apologize for linking her with the shooting. This is greatest disgrace in media in many years.

I also fault the GOP establishment for defending Palin as well. They are hoping she will go down in flames but theirs and the libs’s plans have failed.

Sean68 said:
Ya know, there’s actually a term for this idea you espouse: economism. The idea that the most important thing to a person should be how much money one makes.

I had a professor who once tell me that it’s immoral for someone to vote against one’s own economic self interest. At the time, I was fairly sympathetic with that view. I’m still a materialist to an extent. But I’ve lived long enough to know that there’s much more that goes into making a life and a nation than $$$. However, I will say that corporations are amoral entities, and anyone who defends them through some kind of faith that they’d return the favor is possessed of a kind of naivete or delusion.

Sean68 said:
How is she any more guilty than her left-wing counterparts in the media who have no more of a relationship to this shooter or his crime than anyone else?

She is not guilty in any way when it comes to the shooting, but to resort to their level is not the answer either. She answered with a “I know what you are but what am I?”. She needs to be above the slanderous statements from certain aspects of the media and just let them be.

Remember how at first Palin was to blame and then after a while it looked stupid to blame her, but after her speech it was ok to blame her again? I don’t want that. If she was above it the people who want to see her undoing would just keep throwing stuff at her hoping something would stick. But now, she gave them ammo they can use against her.

That may be from a lack of political experience I don’t know, but she needs to be more careful with her words because there are A LOT of people who want to see her downfall. Sometimes it is ok to shrug your shoulders and let them be. Would they call you scared? No doubt, but that would be all they had.

That old saying “beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” does that come into play here? How subjective is the definition of hate speech? And aren’t we all guilty of at least some political myopia, always quick to see what’s wrong with what the other side says and does while rarely reflecting on whether or not our side does the same? Seems like this is just another extension of partisanship, and common ground will never be found. A back-and-forth that will be endless.

Silly Pat must think the people are dumb. He chooses when to be factual and when not to. All of the riling up of angers in the rally from 08 has been deleted in the memory of Buchanan. It’s called selective amnesia or for a politico it’s just Political (to deny fact or make things up).

The Real Royal King said:
Of course, Pat, Palin is always a victim. We all know that.

skyfet said:
Pat is either intentionally misleading or is just full of crap.

ROCKSTEADY said:
Buchanan concluded, “this woman is not a dispenser of hate, she’s a victim of hate,” to which Shrum excitedly responded, “she’s no victim, she’s been out there taunting people for two years.” I agree with Shrum,Palin gets what she dishes out.

sharksbreath said:
Sarah has been spouting hate since the day she walked on the national stage. Without hate, bigotry and propaganda the GOP could not exist in this country. How else can you get people to vote for a party if all you thought they cared about was rich people. The greatest con the Republican party has pulled on middle white class Americans was conning them into believing that when Republicans say freedom for Americans they really mean Americans. When they are really talking about corporations having the freedom to do whatever they want. If your not in the top 2% of income earners you should never vote Republican.

Gee Ole Pat sure was off base huh?

TangledThorns said:
No matter what Palin does she will still be a victim of smear by the liberals who have yet to apologize for linking her with the shooting. This is greatest disgrace in media in many years.

I also fault the GOP establishment for defending Palin as well. They are hoping she will go down in flames but theirs and the libs’s plans have failed.

You fault the GOP for defending her, interesting! isn’t that what you are doing. Perhaps you should fault your own self.

Jackyboy said:
She is not guilty in any way when it comes to the shooting, but to resort to their level is not the answer either. She answered with a “I know what you are but what am I?”. She needs to be above the slanderous statements from certain aspects of the media and just let them be. Remember how at first Palin was to blame and then after a while it looked stupid to blame her, but after her speech it was ok to blame her again? I don’t want that. If she was above it the people who want to see her undoing would just keep throwing stuff at her hoping something would stick. But now, she gave them ammo they can use against her. That may be from a lack of political experience I don’t know, but she needs to be more careful with her words because there are A LOT of people who want to see her downfall. Sometimes it is ok to shrug your shoulders and let them be. Would they call you scared? No doubt, but that would be all they had.

When did it look stupid to blame her? Right after she defended herself? Because some still haven’t let up on that meme dude.

As to providing ammo…..when you are willing to stretch a symbol utilized by both sides for an awfully long time AND hardly as bad as some have shown as well (think the Kanjorski comments about walls and shots for Rick Scott) or pick fly shit out of pepper for poklitical gain by bitching about blood libel……you would have to take up residence inside the Arctic Circle to be successfully out of their sights.

Oh wait….gun metaphor and Palin already resides damn hear the Arctic Circle……………..

Idiot reporters at the presser asks Gibbs about Palin! DUH!!! PDS continues in the media who love, admire, adore, worship and praise at the altar of the obamasiah.

Sarah rules the day, yet again.

skyfet said:
You fault the GOP for defending her, interesting! isn’t that what you are doing. Perhaps you should fault your own self.

Actually I don’t see him take a position on Palin other than to point out what has been done to her.

But that PDS got in your way right?

TfT said:
Idiot reporters at the presser asks Gibbs about Palin! DUH!!! PDS continues in the media who love, admire, adore, worship and praise at the altar of the obamasiah. Sarah rules the day, yet again.

She truly has a home in their dome.

Jackyboy said:
She is not guilty in any way when it comes to the shooting, but to resort to their level is not the answer either. She answered with a “I know what you are but what am I?”. She needs to be above the slanderous statements from certain aspects of the media and just let them be.

Remember how at first Palin was to blame and then after a while it looked stupid to blame her, but after her speech it was ok to blame her again? I don’t want that. If she was above it the people who want to see her undoing would just keep throwing stuff at her hoping something would stick. But now, she gave them ammo they can use against her.

That may be from a lack of political experience I don’t know, but she needs to be more careful with her words because there are A LOT of people who want to see her downfall. Sometimes it is ok to shrug your shoulders and let them be. Would they call you scared? No doubt, but that would be all they had.

It seemed to me that you imputed her with some degree of guilt in relation to what happened on Saturday. How is she in any way, shape or form culpable for what happened any more than anyone else engaged in the usual back-and-forth vitriol that has become the essence of political discourse in this country? Listen, we all get worked up and whipped up into a frenzy about these things. I’m as guilty as anyone in that respect. If I say or imply something I didn’t mean, I’ll acknowledge that. I truly believe the “professional left” (to borrow a phrase) knows what it’s doing. But they’re only do damage to their own reputation.

The Real Royal King said:
Of course, you worship daily at the Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Victimhood. Your perspective may be skewed.

How could she possibly get in?

Folks like you and skyfet and Barney Frank and Nazi Pelousy and Barak Obama have the place packed to the rafters with Rev Al and Jesse Justice on the outside with crowds trying to get in!!!

I guess they’ll just have to be content with those T shirts………

Media asks about Palin but not about the big lie Obama told last night?????????????????

Too damn funny.

Eagerly awaiting Tommy’s article:

THE BIG LIE, Obama closes his eyes to the truth (or something like that)???

On another thread BOX OF ROX said that Palin deserves the death threats. THAT is the left, ladies and gents. They can say it’s Palin that spreads the hate, but we all know the truth.

Sean68 said:
It seemed to me that you imputed her with some degree of guilt in relation to what happened on Saturday. How is she in any way, shape or form culpable for what happened any more than anyone else engaged in the usual back-and-forth vitriol that has become the essence of political discourse in this country? Listen, we all get worked up and whipped up into a frenzy about these things. I’m as guilty as anyone in that respect. If I say or imply something I didn’t mean, I’ll acknowledge that. I truly believe the “professional left” (to borrow a phrase) knows what it’s doing. But they’re only do damage to their own reputation.

Well said and my only bone to pick is that you said that the vitriol “has become”……..

Look back on how even the Founders fought. It’s been around since we formed this nation. In fact it is part of the human condition as it is not exclusive to Americans. Hell, the SoKos have full on fist fights in their “congress”. So have Japan’s pols IIRC.

Politics ain’t beanbag…….

skyfet said:
Tang

Typo, I fault them for NOT defending her. Unfortunately we cannot edit our posts you silly girl.

KING all aflutter . You Republicans really need to stop the nastiness . It vexes my innocent spirit . Consider the weather , perhaps .

When Amerika is in the grip of winter , I like to think of my favorite season , Spring . Soon it will come calling on Austin , with all it’s heavenly delights ! The lovely hairdos , the fashions , the long legs exposed to the sun ! Oh yes , the females look nice too , I suppose . I enjoy setting up my flytrap to catch the little folks . I give each fly a name , and then a nickname , whilst mocking each of them for their stupidity . Then I tire of the game , remove one wing from each and watch them try to fly . The fools ! This may sound harsh , but I must capture the flies before my neighbor does . He’s quite mad , you see .

How Pat Buchanan manages to stay on the air, or why anyone in their right mind would look to him for “analysis” is a complete mystery to me, and has baffled me for years, but his defense of Palin is hardly surprising.

I’ll give Palin this much: she probably didn’t know what the term “blood libel” meant, and probably only used it because she, or whoever wrote the statement for her, heard the term bandied about by other conservatives. I didn’t know what it meant, and my guess is 99% of people, unless they’re Jewish, probably didn’t know what it meant, either.

However, that being said, she should have taken one look at that statement and said, “Hold on, this is in response to an attempted assassination of a Congresswoman, a massacre that killed six people and injured fourteen, I’m being accused of violent rhetoric that may have played a part in this event … why on earth are we using a term with the word ‘blood’ in it?!”

That should have been a no-brainer. A five-year-old could figure that one out. Unfortunately, Mrs. Palin is missing one critical component in that equation: a brain.

Let’s face it, the only reason Pat Buchanan is defending her is because he thinks she’s pretty and he’s indulging in the final fantasies of an old man. Plain and simple. And there is no way that this woman should be receiving or deserves the coverage from the media that she currently gets, except for the sad fact that the media loves a train wreck … and Palin is the mother of all train wrecks.

Go take your PDS meds, Indygal.

i’m just watching stephen colbert as he explains (paraphrasing) why sara palin took down the map of ‘surveyor symbols’. now is not the time for to talk about land elevations because she might get confused and take the high road.

White,female,republican from middle America is bottom of the political food chain. You can attack Palin and her family all day long , without any fear of negative repercussions!

Black democratic president is top of the food chain. You must love every aspect of his agenda or you are a RACIST hater trying to inspire violence!

VoiceofReason said:
Actually I don’t see him take a position on Palin other than to point out what has been done to her.

But that PDS got in your way right?

Too early to be embarrassing yourself again, come on, I don’t like to do this to you, but you asked for it. The person I was responding to got the gist(has responded), you apparently didn’t, so your despise for me made you comment/throw in the wrong comment. It was a typo not about Sarah, Sir/madam, capiche?

VoiceofReason said:
Well said and my only bone to pick is that you said that the vitriol “has become”……..

Look back on how even the Founders fought. It’s been around since we formed this nation. In fact it is part of the human condition as it is not exclusive to Americans. Hell, the SoKos have full on fist fights in their “congress”. So have Japan’s pols IIRC.

Politics ain’t beanbag…….

I know what you say is true about our history. For chrissakes, Hamilton i’s followers accused Aaron Burr of incest with his own daughter! I guess what I mean is, relative to what it’s been like the past few years. I’m not the only one making this observation. Things are getting heated.

Regardless of the rhetoric the Dropout Governor spews she was not at fault for what happened. A crazed, psycho gun toting lunatic is at fault. That being said, Palin’s 8 minutes speech was a political speech to cover her ass, even is she was not at fault. Her delay in replying to the rhetoric is her only fault.
As for President Obama he in 37 minutes put our contry at ease, started the healing process and showed what a true leader does in a time of sorrow. Like Reagan, Clinton, Rosevelt, Kennedy and yes even Bush on 9/11 he showed us what a true leader does, no with bombs and rhetoric, he does it with reassurance that we are going to be ok. Palin could have done that, but she is too worried about herself and not her country.

dummy123 said:
White,female,republican from middle America is bottom of the political food chain. You can attack Palin and her family all day long , without any fear of negative repercussions!

Black democratic president is top of the food chain. You must love every aspect of his agenda or you are a RACIST hater trying to inspire violence!

You are a dummy, according to your own reference, so your stupid comment doesn’t make any sense. You are forgiven, it’s not nice to hurt the disturbed.

TangledThorns said:
Typo, I fault them for NOT defending her. Unfortunately we cannot edit our posts you silly girl.

Another correction, am not a girl. Be nice!

ChiliPeppersFan said:
i’m just watching stephen colbert as he explains (paraphrasing) why sara palin took down the map of ’surveyor symbols’. now is not the time for to talk about land elevations because she might get confused and take the high road.

Hrrrrr Drrrrrrr……….Palin…..Hrrrrr Durrrrrrr….conservatives………Huurrrrrrr Duuuurrrrrrrrr…..evil…….

Sean68 said:
I know what you say is true about our history. For chrissakes, Hamilton i’s followers accused Aaron Burr of incest with his own daughter! I guess what I mean is, relative to what it’s been like the past few years. I’m not the only one making this observation. Things are getting heated.

Perhaps more than in the past……I don’t know for certain as I feel much of what people think may be an increase is actually due to the availability of a forum 24/7 that didn’t exist “back in the day”.

But I have no matrix for basis…..just my gut and my opinion.

IndyGal2011 said:
I’ll give Palin this much: she probably didn’t know what the term “blood libel” meant, and probably only used it because she, or whoever wrote the statement for her, heard the term bandied about by other conservatives. I didn’t know what it meant, and my guess is 99% of people, unless they’re Jewish, probably didn’t know what it meant, either.

i was thinking about that because i thought the same thing…she didn’t know what it meant. but she must have realized the lame stream media would dissect every exclamation point and period or she would have someone around her that knows. (although it’s possible she read it in the op-ed in the wall st. journal)
now this next part you might not be able to follow unless you understand any of glen becks raves.
because she knew the people who are critics all think she is stupid, she would toss in that phrase to take the heat off of her from her violent rhetoric. and they would all concentrate on the stupidity.
the same time she is doing this, she is also throwing some red meat to her supporters, who love the image of blood and rally around all the lies, or libel being spread about her.
or, you were right…she didn’t know what the heck she was saying.

The Lantern of Truth said:
Then I tire of the game , remove one wing from each and watch them try to fly . The fools ! This may sound harsh , but I must capture the flies before my neighbor does . He’s quite mad , you see .

Brilliant.

skyfet said:
Too early to be embarrassing yourself again, come on, I don’t like to do this to you, but you asked for it. The person I was responding to got the gist(has responded), you apparently didn’t, so your despise for me made you comment/throw in the wrong comment. It was a typo not about Sarah, Sir/madam, capiche?

I didn’t even try to get the gist of your drivel dumbass.

I am here to simply clown on all that is……you.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
The Real Royal King says:

Blah, Blah, Bhal

Hey does anyone know how to get rid of a giant cockroach?

You know the Nazis called Jews “Schaben” or cockroaches. I see you and Palin share this Anti-Semitic propensity.

Andrea Mitchell may be right about Sarah Palin being ignorant about the derivation of the term “blood libel” because she likes to use distinctive euphemisms in her writing and possibly meant groups were taking advantage of the “bloody event” to criticise her because whoever created the map of the Democrats Congressional districts chose a circular symbol to mark their locations rather than a “X.”

Sarah Palin misinterprets other things also, she writes that ObamaCare establishes a “right” to health care in her book, “America By Heart”:

http://www.flixya.com/blog/2457496/Right-To-Health-Care

Scott Heckman said:
Regardless of the rhetoric the Dropout Governor spews she was not at fault for what happened. A crazed, psycho gun toting lunatic is at fault. That being said, Palin’s 8 minutes speech was a political speech to cover her ass, even is she was not at fault. Her delay in replying to the rhetoric is her only fault.As for President Obama he in 37 minutes put our contry at ease, started the healing process and showed what a true leader does in a time of sorrow. Like Reagan, Clinton, Rosevelt, Kennedy and yes even Bush on 9/11 he showed us what a true leader does, no with bombs and rhetoric, he does it with reassurance that we are going to be ok. Palin could have done that, but she is too worried about herself and not her country.

If you truly believe that second paragraph you really should seek help.

Loughner was about as grounded in reality as you are.

The Real Royal King said:
You know the Nazis called Jews “Schaben” or cockroaches. I see you and Palin share this Anti-Semitic propensity.

Ooooo NAZI CARD PLAYED!!!!!!!!

What’s next? Did you yell UNO!!!!!

The Real Royal King said:
You know the Nazis called Jews “Schaben” or cockroaches. I see you and Palin share this Anti-Semitic propensity.

Then, so does Pat Buchanan:

Writing of “group fantasies of martyrdom,” Buchanan challenged the historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel exhaust at Treblinka: “Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody.” (New Republic, 10/22/90)

Buchanan was vehement in pushing President Reagan — despite protests — to visit Germany’s Bitburg cemetery, where Nazi SS troops were buried. At a White House meeting, Buchanan reportedly reminded Jewish leaders that they were “Americans first” — and repeatedly scrawled the phrase “Succumbing to the pressure of the Jews” in his notebook. Buchanan was credited with crafting Ronald Reagan’s line that the SS troops buried at Bitburg were “victims just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps.” (New York Times, 5/16/85; New Republic, 1/22/96)

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2553

ChiliPeppersFan said:
i was thinking about that because i thought the same thing…she didn’t know what it meant. but she must have realized the lame stream media would dissect every exclamation point and period or she would have someone around her that knows. (although it’s possible she read it in the op-ed in the wall st. journal)now this next part you might not be able to follow unless you understand any of glen becks raves.because she knew the people who are critics all think she is stupid, she would toss in that phrase to take the heat off of her from her violent rhetoric. and they would all concentrate on the stupidity.the same time she is doing this, she is also throwing some red meat to her supporters, who love the image of blood and rally around all the lies, or libel being spread about her.or, you were right…she didn’t know what the heck she was saying.

HRRRRR DUURRRRRR BLOOD LIBEL HUUURRRRRR DDDUUURRRRRR PALIN

Scott Heckman said:
As for President Obama he in 37 minutes put our contry at ease, started the healing process and showed what a true leader does in a time of sorrow. Like Reagan, Clinton, Rosevelt, Kennedy and yes even Bush on 9/11 he showed us what a true leader does, no with bombs and rhetoric, he does it with reassurance that we are going to be ok. Palin could have done that, but she is too worried about herself and not her country.

one thing that was extremely comforting was that, for the most part, even the most rabid right-wingers on this site have been given props to obama for his speech…with some very fair criticism. just as i, and apparently you, were able to rally behind bush at that troubling time, good people realize what a great country this is.

VoiceofReason said:
Ooooo NAZI CARD PLAYED!!!!!!!!

What’s next? Did you yell UNO!!!!!

You joker, you just piled me and others up with the Nazi reference. It’s amazing you only did that few seconds ago, but had the balls to say they are playing the Nazi card. You should look into the mirror and ask your self, what have I become? Or perhpas you should do whatever you think is right.

redwriteblue said:
Andrea Mitchell may be right about Sarah Palin being ignorant about the derivation of the term “blood libel” because she likes to use distinctive euphemisms in her writing and possibly meant groups were taking advantage of the “bloody event” to criticise her because whoever created the map of the Democrats Congressional districts chose a circular symbol to mark their locations rather than a “X.”

Sarah Palin misinterprets other things also, she writes that ObamaCare establishes a “right” to health care in her book, “America By Heart”:

http://www.flixya.com/blog/2457496/Right-To-Health-Care

I tend to think that true. I’m not sure Palin even read the speech before “taping” it. And, she is not particularly literate.

Now, what will happen is people like Michelle-in-Utah will criticize me for saying Palin is dumb, when, in fact, I just offered her a bit of absolution.

How fitting that overheated rhetoric has taken over a story about heated rhetoric.

skyfet said:
You joker, you just piled me and others up with the Nazi reference. It’s amazing you only did that few seconds ago, but had the balls to say they are playing the Nazi card. You should look into the mirror and ask your self, what have I become? Or perhpas you should do whatever you think is right.

HRRRRR DUURRRRRR NAZI!!!!!!

paulmdoro said:
How fitting that overheated rhetoric has taken over a story about heated rhetoric.

What in the world is a reasonable lib like yourself doing in this slamapolooza?

VoiceofReason said:
Perhaps more than in the past……I don’t know for certain as I feel much of what people think may be an increase is actually due to the availability of a forum 24/7 that didn’t exist “back in the day”.

But I have no matrix for basis…..just my gut and my opinion.

I know that many on the right hate people on the left. But one problem that has never been more clear to me is the extent to which the left hates the right. I mean, most seem to think conservatives are intrinsically bad people (with the slight caveat that those who aren’t intrinsically evil are simply too stupid to grasp what is moral). Look at the terms they use for Republicans: ReTHUGlicans…RePUGlicans. This reflects how they view them/us. Take Howard Dean for example. Howard Dean is a major leader of the Democratic left in this country. He was asked by (I think) Bob Schieffer how is the Democratic Party different from the Repub Party. His answer: Democrats care if children go to bed hungry. Contemplate that. Shouldn’t such people (conservatives) be hated? What kind of monsters don’t care about hungry children? How can the left engage in or even desire that civil discourse be had with such people? This is an obstacle. Much is made of the moral preening of the religious right; too little is made about the moral preening of the left.

First Rush, now Sarah? The GOPers are playing the “victim” card fast and loose!

VoiceofReason said:
What in the world is a reasonable lib like yourself doing in this slamapolooza?

Shaking my head at the nasty back and forth while lamenting the fact that it is totally impossible to have a reasonable discussion of anything related to Palin.

Sean68 said:
How is she any more guilty than her left-wing counterparts in the media who have no more of a relationship to this shooter or his crime than anyone else?

Don’t be asking any reasonable questions expecting to get any actual proof instead of more accusations stated as evidence.

Sean68 said:
I know that many on the right hate people on the left. But one problem that has never been more clear to me is the extent to which the left hates the right. I mean, most seem to think conservatives are intrinsically bad people (with the slight caveat that those who aren’t intrinsically evil are simply too stupid to grasp what is moral). Look at the terms they use for Republicans: ReTHUGlicans…RePUGlicans. This reflects how they view them/us. Take Howard Dean for example. Howard Dean is a major leader of the Democratic left in this country. He was asked by (I think) Bob Schieffer how is the Democratic Party different from the Repub Party. His answer: Democrats care if children go to bed hungry. Contemplate that. Shouldn’t such people (conservatives) be hated? What kind of monsters don’t care about hungry children? How can the left engage in or even desire that civil discourse be had with such people? This is an obstacle. Much is made of the moral preening of the religious right; too little is made about the moral preening of the left.

I have been called a “Libtard” here more times than I can count. I have been called all sorts of nasty names here. Neither side has clean hands here.

The Real Royal King said:
cockroaches.

KING here being bugged . YES ! I must set my cucaracha traps . They’re here . I don’t see them , but I can hear them . They’re talking about me . I’m going to find out what they’re planning .

Sean68 said:
However, I will say that corporations are amoral entities, and anyone who defends them through some kind of faith that they’d return the favor is possessed of a kind of naivete or delusion.

True, but my faith – if that’s the term you want to use, I prefer confidence – is based on the simple premise that when corporations/producers thrive the country and its citizens are benefitted also.

I never took an Econ course so I hope this makes more sense and could be expressed in more elegant terms by someone else.

paulmdoro said:
Shaking my head at the nasty back and forth while lamenting the fact that it is totally impossible to have a reasonable discussion of anything related to Palin.

I’ll talk Palin all you want. I promise not to lapse into my meaness again.

Royal Pain in the Butt says:

Now, what will happen is people like Michelle-in-Utah will criticize me for saying Palin is dumb, when, in fact, I just offered her a bit of absolution.

See this is what you used to do when I TRIED to have a truce with you. You use the ole, I’m pretending to give you a compliment, but I’m really insulting you trick. You are a master at that!

paulmdoro said:
I have been called a “Libtard” here more times than I can count. I have been called all sorts of nasty names here. Neither side has clean hands here.

Damn the quote thing here sucks……but to both of you…….I agree to an extent Sean…….but the back and forth has probably gone on for so long neither knows or possibly even caresd who starts what…….they all seem to think that this makes political hay with anybody but us rabid wonks.

I think they are wrong.

VoiceofReason said:
I’ll talk Palin all you want. I promise not to lapse into my meaness again.

I wasn’t pointing fingers or singling you out. I was speaking generally. Generally speaking, it seems that a rational discussion of Palin is not possible here. One side bashes every single thing she says and does, while the other defends every single thing she says and does.

The Lantern of Truth said:
KING here being bugged . YES ! I must set my cucaracha traps . They’re here . I don’t see them , but I can hear them . They’re talking about me . I’m going to find out what they’re planning .

You’re mistaken……cockroaches was the word used but RRK KNOWS they mean the same as Nazis calling Jews schaben because we all want to put libs in ovens.

VoiceofReason said:
Damn the quote thing here sucks……but to both of you…….I agree to an extent Sean…….but the back and forth has probably gone on for so long neither knows or possibly even caresd who starts what…….they all seem to think that this makes political hay with anybody but us rabid wonks.

I think they are wrong.

I agree.

Grammie said:
True, but my faith – if that’s the term you want to use, I prefer confidence – is based on the simple premise that when corporations/producers thrive the country and its citizens are benefitted also.

I never took an Econ course so I hope this makes more sense and could be expressed in more elegant terms by someone else.

There is truth in what you say here, Janet. Corporate status is, of course, a privilege and not a right. We place some restrictions on corporate status because the state has afforded a great benefit, insulation of the shareholders from personal liability and accountability. You’ll recall Mr. Delay was just convicted and sentenced for a rather blatant violation of Texas’ law prohibiting corporations from making contributions to political candidates. I think we have a problem when we begin to treat corporations as individuals and when we relax the standards for conducting business in the corporate form. That leads to many abuses.

paulmdoro said:
I wasn’t pointing fingers or singling you out. I was speaking generally. Generally speaking, it seems that a rational discussion of Palin is not possible here. One side bashes every single thing she says and does, while the other defends every single thing she says and does.

I got that Paul.

I just meant that if you really did want to have a discourse over what she said or has said or done…..I’m your Huckleberry.

VoiceofReason said:
we all want to put libs in ovens.

I suspected as much.

VoiceofReason said:
I got that Paul.

I just meant that if you really did want to have a discourse over what she said or has said or done…..I’m your Huckleberry.

Good to know.

Grammie said:
True, but my faith – if that’s the term you want to use, I prefer confidence – is based on the simple premise that when corporations/producers thrive the country and its citizens are benefitted also.

I never took an Econ course so I hope this makes more sense and could be expressed in more elegant terms by someone else.

of course that makes sense to me but i also believe it is possible for these corporations to thrive, they sometimes cut corners to do so. not in any intentionally mean or evil way, but as a result of their desire to thrive. and to prevent this from happening, we must have some regulations in place.

paulmdoro said:
I agree.

I think that CBS poll that came out Monday or Tuesday shows that folks are donw with this caca.

while it only addresses whethr or not they think political vitriol had anything to do with the shooting I think it speaks on a larger scale to the efforts trying to paint it as something it wasn’t as well.

Many think much of the populace is stupid….i disagree. I don’t think they are engaged.

It’s a fact that even in these alleged hyper-partisan times(I don’t agree with that assessment either) many folks don’t get involved in the political “arena” until after Labor Day.

That’s a very short time to digest everything out there and I think much of the ancillary nastiness is being dismissed by them in an effort to make a reasoned decision with their vote while not being bogged down wading through all the bullshit.

I could be wrong. I am only dealing with what I know of my friends, co-workers and family.

ChiliPeppersFan says:
January 13, 2011 at 11:21 am ChiliPeppersFan(Quote)
0 0
Grammie said:
True, but my faith – if that’s the term you want to use, I prefer confidence – is based on the simple premise that when corporations/producers thrive the country and its citizens are benefitted also.

I never took an Econ course so I hope this makes more sense and could be expressed in more elegant terms by someone else.

of course that makes sense to me but i also believe it is possible for these corporations to thrive, they sometimes cut corners to do so. not in any intentionally mean or evil way, but as a result of their desire to thrive. and to prevent this from happening, we must have some regulations in place.

Now this is how we need to have dialogue! As an example I see both sides of the debate. Let’s try to draw out the best points of both sides of the argument, working together, and make things happen.

The Real Royal King said:
I suspected as much.

Yup you got me.

burn baby burn.

2 posts ago should read “aren’t down with this….”

sorry…poor spelling, fat fingers and no device for correction.

VoiceofReason said:
I think that CBS poll that came out Monday or Tuesday shows that folks are donw with this caca.

while it only addresses whethr or not they think political vitriol had anything to do with the shooting I think it speaks on a larger scale to the efforts trying to paint it as something it wasn’t as well.

Many think much of the populace is stupid….i disagree. I don’t think they are engaged.

It’s a fact that even in these alleged hyper-partisan times(I don’t agree with that assessment either) many folks don’t get involved in the political “arena” until after Labor Day.

That’s a very short time to digest everything out there and I think much of the ancillary nastiness is being dismissed by them in an effort to make a reasoned decision with their vote while not being bogged down wading through all the bullshit.

I could be wrong. I am only dealing with what I know of my friends, co-workers and family.

Again I think you’re right. I think people are used to both heated political rhetoric and mass shootings and therefore wouldn’t blame it for what happened. I also think most people don’t have the time or inclination to rabidly follow politics (like you said they really pay close attention once Labor Day of an election year hits).

paulmdoro said:
Again I think you’re right. I think people are used to both heated political rhetoric and mass shootings and therefore wouldn’t blame it for what happened. I also think most people don’t have the time or inclination to rabidly follow politics (like you said they really pay close attention once Labor Day of an election year hits).

All that being said……are you optimistic?

I am……perhaps in spite of current conditions.

skyfet said:
Pat is either intentionally misleading or is just full of crap.

Then he certainly is on the right network.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Royal Pain in the Butt says:

Now, what will happen is people like Michelle-in-Utah will criticize me for saying Palin is dumb, when, in fact, I just offered her a bit of absolution.

See this is what you used to do when I TRIED to have a truce with you. You use the ole, I’m pretending to give you a compliment, but I’m really insulting you trick. You are a master at that!

Truce! that’s funny. Who the hell are you to offer truce. You are not in position to give truce. You should open your eyes and not be a blind follower. That’s all.

VoiceofReason said:
All that being said……are you optimistic?

I am……perhaps in spite of current conditions.

Optimistic about the tone of political discourse in America?

I think it’s shameful that over the past few days of discourse, the size of Brisket’s thighs has been totally glossed over.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
On another thread BOX OF ROX said that Palin deserves the death threats. THAT is the left, ladies and gents. They can say it’s Palin that spreads the hate, but we all know the truth.

What I said was she deserves what she dishes out.If palin can’t deal with death threats she has NO business being in politics.All that are have threats against them always.Get over it.Threats come with the JOB.

Sky says:

Truce! that’s funny. Who the hell are you to offer truce. You are not in position to give truce. You should open your eyes and not be a blind follower. That’s all.

Um, we did have a truce for a while. Ask him, he’ll tell you. It ended because I couldn’t stand his back-handed comments and hateful rhetoric regarding my religion. How about this, keep quiet about things you know nothing about.

Sean68 said:
Ya know, there’s actually a term for this idea you espouse: economism. The idea that the most important thing to a person should be how much money one makes.

There’s a few more terms too. Envy, greed, jealousy.

jim bronson 990cc said:
The GOPers are playing the “victim” card fast and loose!

Funny how the accused can so quickly become the victim. That wouldn’t happen if people didn’t falsely accuse them, don’t you think?

If you don’t throw the rock, then the person you hit can’t complain about you hitting them, can they?

paulmdoro says:
January 13, 2011 at 11:28 am paulmdoro(Quote)
0 0
VoiceofReason said:
I think that CBS poll that came out Monday or Tuesday shows that folks are donw with this caca.

while it only addresses whethr or not they think political vitriol had anything to do with the shooting I think it speaks on a larger scale to the efforts trying to paint it as something it wasn’t as well.

Many think much of the populace is stupid….i disagree. I don’t think they are engaged.

It’s a fact that even in these alleged hyper-partisan times(I don’t agree with that assessment either) many folks don’t get involved in the political “arena” until after Labor Day.

That’s a very short time to digest everything out there and I think much of the ancillary nastiness is being dismissed by them in an effort to make a reasoned decision with their vote while not being bogged down wading through all the bullshit.

I could be wrong. I am only dealing with what I know of my friends, co-workers and family.

Again I think you’re right. I think people are used to both heated political rhetoric and mass shootings and therefore wouldn’t blame it for what happened. I also think most people don’t have the time or inclination to rabidly follow politics (like you said they really pay close attention once Labor Day of an election year hits).

Great! MORE TRUE BI- PARTIANSHIP! This nation works alot better that way. Not a “mushy middle”, but a principled compromise

The Real Royal King said:
Then, so does Pat Buchanan:

Writing of “group fantasies of martyrdom,” Buchanan challenged the historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel exhaust at Treblinka: “Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody.” (New Republic, 10/22/90)

Hey! Pat Buchanan lost his father at Auschwitz! (He fell out of a guard tower.)

One need only read some of the King’s infinite number of posts about Palin to know that any talk of hatred directed towards her is totally unfounded.

Sarah voluntarily cashed in on the media attention she was getting so I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for her.

I would agree that the media can be intrusive and overly critical to the pointy of cruelty sometimes, but that’s part of the territory that goes with pursuing celebrity status and constantly seeking attention.
Her job description isn’t as an actor or sports figure or musician, but just as a talking head. Personally I think the left should ignore her a lot more often. Stop playing to her attention seeking ways. She spouts fairly generic and meaningless slogans and buzz words. So what.

I asked this in another thread. Who actually blamed her for the Tuscon tragedy? I realize her name and the map came up a lot in a discussion about heated political rhetoric, but that’s not assigning blame to her.

Pablo said:
Hey! Pat Buchanan lost his father at Auschwitz! (He fell out of a guard tower.)

Now THAT’s funny stuff

BOX of ROX, I just thought you like to take a look at what you say she deserved:

Far Left Goes On a Sarah Palin Death Wish Frenzy – The Video YouTube Pulled

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/01/far-left-sarah-palin-death-wish-tweets-the-video-youtube-pulled/

Color Me Badd said:
Well at least Sarah has the full support of Holocaust Deniers like Pat Buchanan.

You see, it is lies like that, that make you a coward hiding behind a phony name to attack people. You can’t say that to anyone’s face can you? You are just a coward taking shots just like the shooter.

No matter how hard he tries, Palin is never going to give Buchanan a blow job.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
BOX of ROX, I just thought you like to take a look at what you say she deserved

Again i said she is reaping what she sowed.Get over it.If you constantly ask for violence you will get it.And if you wanted to be correct it would be Box Of Rocks.You should put on your glasses.

CosmosDan said:
Indy

Well said.

BOX of ROX, please post your evidence that she is asking for violence.

CosmosDan said:
Sarah voluntarily cashed in on the media attention she was getting so I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for her.

I would agree that the media can be intrusive and overly critical to the pointy of cruelty sometimes, but that’s part of the territory that goes with pursuing celebrity status and constantly seeking attention.
Her job description isn’t as an actor or sports figure or musician, but just as a talking head. Personally I think the left should ignore her a lot more often. Stop playing to her attention seeking ways. She spouts fairly generic and meaningless slogans and buzz words. So what.

I asked this in another thread. Who actually blamed her for the Tuscon tragedy? I realize her name and the map came up a lot in a discussion about heated political rhetoric, but that’s not assigning blame to her.

Let’s try that again (quote tool on this site a bit unpredictable) … well said, Cosmos Dan.

paulmdoro said:
Optimistic about the tone of political discourse in America?

Oh nooooo not that. In fact I think it is going to get much worse before it gets better.

I was talking about Average Joes and Janes “getting” it……in spite of all the obstacles in their path.

CosmosDan said:
Sarah voluntarily cashed in on the media attention she was getting so I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for her. I would agree that the media can be intrusive and overly critical to the pointy of cruelty sometimes, but that’s part of the territory that goes with pursuing celebrity status and constantly seeking attention.Her job description isn’t as an actor or sports figure or musician, but just as a talking head. Personally I think the left should ignore her a lot more often. Stop playing to her attention seeking ways. She spouts fairly generic and meaningless slogans and buzz words. So what. I asked this in another thread. Who actually blamed her for the Tuscon tragedy? I realize her name and the map came up a lot in a discussion about heated political rhetoric, but that’s not assigning blame to her.

First all of Dan you indiicate in a left handed way that she wants this attention….really? Is that what you get? she wants crazed hacks renting thehouse next to her so they can peep in her windows and maybe get a salacious pic of her arguing with her husband? Or maybe he can get a titilating shot of one of the little girls boobs slipping out of a bathrobe?

C’mon man.

As to the last…..that is about as diingeuous a statement as I have seen any of the other hyper-partisans make yet you seemingly are trying to portray the level-headed role.

Do you seriously contend that no how, no way could any reasonable person construe what has been said over the past 5 days as blaming Palin and RWers in general?

IndyGal2011 said:
Let’s try that again (quote tool on this site a bit unpredictable) … well said, Cosmos Dan.

Toady says upredictable.

Scott Heckman said:
Regardless of the rhetoric the Dropout Governor spews she was not at fault for what happened. A crazed, psycho gun toting lunatic is at fault. That being said, Palin’s 8 minutes speech was a political speech to cover her ass, even is she was not at fault. Her delay in replying to the rhetoric is her only fault.
As for President Obama he in 37 minutes put our contry at ease, started the healing process and showed what a true leader does in a time of sorrow. Like Reagan, Clinton, Rosevelt, Kennedy and yes even Bush on 9/11 he showed us what a true leader does, no with bombs and rhetoric, he does it with reassurance that we are going to be ok. Palin could have done that, but she is too worried about herself and not her country.

A couple of points:

1) Liberals (and others) like to say that she “dropped out” or quit as governor. What she did was do the people a favor and said she would be gone too much to do a good job. Now switch over to Obama. He was Senator from Illinois but he didn’t do anything as he was running for President. For the most part, he represented HIMSELF while we were paying him. Obama SHOULD have resigned from office so the people had someone who would be paying attention.

2)Obama’s speech was good, but it seems so good because everything else he has done has been so bad. His nasty rhetoric to date (the Alinsky techniques to undermine and hurt people) have been the rule, not the exception.

VoiceofReason said:
Oh nooooo not that. In fact I think it is going to get much worse before it gets better.

I was talking about Average Joes and Janes “getting” it……in spite of all the obstacles in their path.

Oh sorry. My bad. I think that’s true and I think the fact that most Americans reside in or near the middle politically is evidence of that. They remain skeptical of both parties and the heated rhetoric and attempt to make informed decisions. Not all of course, but generally, most of them.

IndyGal2011 said:
I asked this in another thread

I believe I saw an answer: there:

Markos Malito (?)

I don’t remember for sure if there was a citation but I think there was.

CosmosDan said:
I asked this in another thread. Who actually blamed her for the Tuscon tragedy? I

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47252.html

I found this, which I think qualifies as a direct accusation:

Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas tweeted this early Saturday: “Mission accomplished, Sarah Palin.” The tweet included a link to Palin’s target map.

http://theamericano.com/2011/01/10/left-quickly-accuses-palin-tea-party-toxic-politics/

Words spoken by one of the supreme Right-Wing hate-mongers in recent Murcuhn history. “Catholic Pat.”
Another GOP Idiot Savant – w a complete lack of social & emotional reciprocity.

Paul says:

Oh sorry. My bad. I think that’s true and I think the fact that most Americans reside in or near the middle politically is evidence of that. They remain skeptical of both parties and the heated rhetoric and attempt to make informed decisions. Not all of course, but generally, most of them.

I hate to correct you Paul, but the number of I’s is equal to the number of those who consider themselves Conservatives according to polls 20% Lib, 40% I, 40% Conservative.

Merkin?

The largest group of voters is independents. It’s why they are so coveted.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/11/01/independent-swing-voters-fed-up-with-entire-political-system/

Also, it’s not just the number of people who identify as independent, it’s also that most Americans reside in or near the middle, not far left or far right.

IndyGal2011 said:
Let’s face it, the only reason Pat Buchanan is defending her is because he thinks she’s pretty and he’s indulging in the final fantasies of an old man. Plain and simple.

This has to be the most inane post of the day, congrats.

All this spew from a party that did this:
http://www.ucsdguardian.org/opinion/wellstonememorialturnsintopoliticalrally/

Class act.

Grammie said:
I found this, which I think qualifies as a direct accusation:

Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas tweeted this early Saturday: “Mission accomplished, Sarah Palin.” The tweet included a link to Palin’s target map.

http://theamericano.com/2011/01/10/left-quickly-accuses-palin-tea-party-toxic-politics/

Well, you certainly have to read an awful lot into that to get that conclusion.

paulmdoro said:
Oh sorry. My bad. I think that’s true and I think the fact that most Americans reside in or near the middle politically is evidence of that. They remain skeptical of both parties and the heated rhetoric and attempt to make informed decisions. Not all of course, but generally, most of them.

Paul, if you had to venture a guess……based soley on your gut and interactions with folks…..what would you guess that number is?

I have my own idea…..kind of like a bell curve with the two fringes more than 6 sigma from the mean….but I’m curious if we differ much since we differ in ideology.

paulmdoro said:
Also, it’s not just the number of people who identify as independent, it’s also that most Americans reside in or near the middle, not far left or far right.

And these are the people who realized they were lied to by Obama and they voted the liberals out. The Democrats lost something like 400 years of Congressional experience.

On the other hand, I don’t think many of these independents know what’s up with Obama. People expected Obama to work to make things better and he didn’t

The part that people miss is that Obama WAS and IS working on something. And that something is working to make things “equal”, As I said, most people don’t understand this, but more and more are.

Alz said:
And these are the people who realized they were lied to by Obama and they voted the liberals out. The Democrats lost something like 400 years of Congressional experience.

On the other hand, I don’t think many of these independents know what’s up with Obama. People expected Obama to work to make things better and he didn’t

The part that people miss is that Obama WAS and IS working on something. And that something is working to make things “equal”, As I said, most people don’t understand this, but more and more are.

Spoken like a true partisan. Who was voted out in 2006 and 2008? It’s cyclical.

VoiceofReason said:
Paul, if you had to venture a guess……based soley on your gut and interactions with folks…..what would you guess that number is?

I have my own idea…..kind of like a bell curve with the two fringes more than 6 sigma from the mean….but I’m curious if we differ much since we differ in ideology.

Number of voters in the middle? Even if they identify with a political party, I’d say the majority of voters consider themselves moderate. At least 2/3s. But that’s just a guess.

The Real Royal King said:
Well, you certainly have to read an awful lot into that to get that conclusion.

Yeah not like the ready link between a campaign ad on a website and murderous intent.

silly grammie……..

paulmdoro said:
Spoken like a true partisan. Who was voted out in 2006 and 2008? It’s cyclical.

How so? I guess I am one too becasue i don’t see anything he stated you would need to take ubrage with.

paulmdoro said:
Number of voters in the middle? Even if they identify with a political party, I’d say the majority of voters consider themselves moderate. At least 2/3s. But that’s just a guess.

Mine is too but I am betting it’s close to your figure…..I say 60% to some degree. I say that because some folks will be conservative about some things yet have a much more liberal position on others.

And I’m not talking pol party either.

I think each fringe numbers about 2 in 10. And I mean the real hardcores…….with the rest having some positions that aren’t in lock step with either side.

Maybe it’s human nature………

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:
Paul says:

Oh sorry. My bad. I think that’s true and I think the fact that most Americans reside in or near the middle politically is evidence of that. They remain skeptical of both parties and the heated rhetoric and attempt to make informed decisions. Not all of course, but generally, most of them.

I hate to correct you Paul, but the number of I’s is equal to the number of those who consider themselves Conservatives according to polls 20% Lib, 40% I, 40% Conservative.

You really ate a lot of library paste in school didn’t you, Michelle-in-Utah. What Paul is saying, in the clearest possible terms, is that within these broad classification, there are gradations. Not all liberals are extremely left of center, not all are the fringes. My guess is that Paul is pretty close to the broad center. I am moderate, perhaps a tick to the left of center. My wife is several ticks left of me. My son is well to the left of me. That means I can embrace a Ron Weyden as well as a Jim Webb. My son can’t embrace Jim Webb. My son is not one of 20%, he is one of 5%.

You are extremist right, while a Joe Scarborough is centrist, a tick or two to the right. You can embrace a Sarah Palin or a Louis Gomer, but anyone near the center for you, an Olympia Snowe is a RINO. Scarborough can embrace an Olympia Snowe even a Lindsey Graham, but not a Sarah Palin or a Jim Demint. You extreme rightism doesn’t mean you’re one of 40%, it means you’re one of 2%.

At one point, Sarah Palin had a pool of supporters in the area of 35-40% of the voting population. It’s now down to 20-25%. That means that even 20% of conservatives couldn’t vote for her.

Paul’s analysis is spot-on, and yours is superficial meanderings.

VoiceofReason said:
How so? I guess I am one too becasue i don’t see anything he stated you would need to take ubrage with.

BTW, I agree that political power is cyclical and I don’t think that was their point. I also think they are correct thinking “Is” don’t know much about Obama. I don’t think anyone really does. I read most everything I can get my hands on on him and I wouldn’t even begin to try and tout myself an reliable source. And since “Is” make up the larger segment of the populace….how could they know?

And the part about equal I think is spot on as Obama has said himself that social justice is very important to him and if that isn’t an attempt to make everyone equal I’m not sure how you could catagorize it…….

The Real Royal King said:
You really ate a lot of library paste in school didn’t you, Michelle-in-Utah. What Paul is saying, in the clearest possible terms, is that within these broad classification, there are gradations. Not all liberals are extremely left of center, not all are the fringes. My guess is that Paul is pretty close to the broad center. I am moderate, perhaps a tick to the left of center. My wife is several ticks left of me. My son is well to the left of me. That means I can embrace a Ron Weyden as well as a Jim Webb. My son can’t embrace Jim Webb. My son is not one of 20%, he is one of 5%. You are extremist right, while a Joe Scarborough is centrist, a tick or two to the right. You can embrace a Sarah Palin or a Louis Gomer, but anyone near the center for you, an Olympia Snowe is a RINO. Scarborough can embrace an Olympia Snowe even a Lindsey Graham, but not a Sarah Palin or a Jim Demint. You extreme rightism doesn’t mean you’re one of 40%, it means you’re one of 2%. At one point, Sarah Palin had a pool of supporters in the area of 35-40% of the voting population. It’s now down to 20-25%. That means that even 20% of conservatives couldn’t vote for her. Paul’s analysis is spot-on, and yours is superficial meanderings.

Actually it typically doesn’t rest on where you reside on the left to right “line” but what you tend to be conservative or liberal about.

I’m not much for abortion but I don’t think the federal govt. should be making policy about marriage in a church. both issues you would probably expect conservative Christians to be in lock step on but I don’t see it their way.

VoiceofReason said:
I say that because some folks will be conservative about some things yet have a much more liberal position on others.

I consider myself a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I wonder how many like thinkers are out there.

VoiceofReason said:
BTW, I agree that political power is cyclical and I don’t think that was their point. I also think they are correct thinking “Is” don’t know much about Obama. I don’t think anyone really does. I read most everything I can get my hands on on him and I wouldn’t even begin to try and tout myself an reliable source. And since “Is” make up the larger segment of the populace….how could they know?

And the part about equal I think is spot on as Obama has said himself that social justice is very important to him and if that isn’t an attempt to make everyone equal I’m not sure how you could catagorize it…….

My point was that the last election is not representative of a larger trend. The outcomes of the prior 2 national elections were very different. His answer struck me as overly partisan and more interested in taking political cheap shots as opposed to offering reasoned analysis.

Nachi said:
Words spoken by one of the supreme Right-Wing hate-mongers in recent Murcuhn history. “Catholic Pat.”
Another GOP Idiot Savant – w a complete lack of social & emotional reciprocity.

LOL , no irony here King

VoiceofReason said:
Mine is too but I am betting it’s close to your figure…..I say 60% to some degree. I say that because some folks will be conservative about some things yet have a much more liberal position on others.

And I’m not talking pol party either.

I think each fringe numbers about 2 in 10. And I mean the real hardcores…….with the rest having some positions that aren’t in lock step with either side.

Maybe it’s human nature………

I agree. The fringe isn’t large on either side but it’s loud and good at generating attention.

Penguin60 said:
I consider myself a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I wonder how many like thinkers are out there.

Fiscal C and moderate social. I don’t agree with abortion on demand but I think at best gay marriage is a states rights issue.

paulmdoro said:
My point was that the last election is not representative of a larger trend. The outcomes of the prior 2 national elections were very different. His answer struck me as overly partisan and more interested in taking political cheap shots as opposed to offering reasoned analysis.

Fair enough…..i didn’t get that but that’s why they sell Chevys as well as Fords.

I do appreciate you taking the time to reply.

paulmdoro said:
I agree. The fringe isn’t large on either side but it’s loud and good at generating attention.

Yeah but that makes it all the more fun to mess with ‘em.

Maybe I read too much into it.

VoiceofReason said:
Yeah but that makes it all the more fun to mess with ‘em.

True enough.

VoiceofReason said:
Fiscal C and moderate social. I don’t agree with abortion on demand but I think at best gay marriage is a states rights issue.

Yes, I toyed with putting liberal/moderate. As someone that has practiced ER medicine for 28yrs, I take care of anyone no matter what they think, believe, or look like, or their ability to pay. I do not agree with abortion as birth control, gay marriage should be a state issue( I have gay relatives whom I love dearly), I believe we need to take care of our indigent population, but not make it a job.

Penguin60 said:
Yes, I toyed with putting liberal/moderate. As someone that has practiced ER medicine for 28yrs, I take care of anyone no matter what they think, believe, or look like, or their ability to pay. I do not agree with abortion as birth control, gay marriage should be a state issue( I have gay relatives whom I love dearly), I believe we need to take care of our indigent population, but not make it a job.

Ijn speaking of our indigent……I wonder how much better we could look after them if we weren’t providing millions of dollars for UCLA grad students to teach african men how to wash their johnsons or sending aid to countries we know that the money never reaches the people or is used for its intended purpose…….

I am moderate, perhaps a tick to the left of center. RRK

Like the Sun is a few ticks over sixty degrees Fahrenheit.

paulmdoro said:
Maybe I read too much into it.

Truthfully that’s not hard to do. It is IMHO VERY difficult to accurately express ones self in the written word.

writer said:
I am moderate, perhaps a tick to the left of center. RRK Like the Sun is a few ticks over sixty degrees Fahrenheit.

What issues would you consider yourself left of C on?

VoiceofReason said:
What issues would you consider yourself left of C on?

That part was RRK’s. He just didn’t use the quote function.

If the King is just a tick to the left of center, then I’m really not sure how to respond.

VoiceofReason said:
Ijn speaking of our indigent……I wonder how much better we could look after them if we weren’t providing millions of dollars for UCLA grad students to teach african men how to wash their johnsons or sending aid to countries we know that the money never reaches the people or is used for its intended purpose…….

Oy, don’t get me started. World police, who gets the call first in disaters? The amount of money that gets wasted by our government is staggering. And I’m not just speaking about current events. Aren’t we still owed money from WWII? I did not walk the Bush walk (immigration, attacking Iraq, spending), although if you agree at all with Republicans you get branded (especially here). I don’t watch Hannity or Beck, I probably watch LSDNBC more, for the comic relief.

writer said:
If the King is just a tick to the left of center, then I’m really not sure how to respond.

That has to be one giant tick. Perhaps living near 3 mile island?

Penguin60 said:
Yes, I toyed with putting liberal/moderate. As someone that has practiced ER medicine for 28yrs, I take care of anyone no matter what they think, believe, or look like, or their ability to pay. I do not agree with abortion as birth control, gay marriage should be a state issue( I have gay relatives whom I love dearly), I believe we need to take care of our indigent population, but not make it a job.

Actually, I think you belong to the fastest growing segment of the population.

I self describe as very conservative but my maim interest in social policy is directly proportional to the fiscal aspect of it. I used to list my priorities when judging a candidate as Defense – Defense – Fiscal – Social. In the last 4 or 5 years I’ve reordered it to be Defense/Fiscal – Fiscal/Defense – Limit Gov. I am conservative in my personal views and life but am not passionate about those values in most cases.

Penguin60 said:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47252.html

I appreciate the link. There’s not a lot in there that specifically blames Palin.

That’s why I asked. I’ve seen how the circus can work. There’s a significant difference between people blaming the general severe tone of political rhetoric , or just commenting on it in general, and blaming Palin. Palin got attention because of her map, and some people did connect the language of the right specifically rather than the including the left as they should, but that’s not blaming Palin. But the meme that will get repeated over and over is how “the left” blamed Palin.
And comments on blogs don’t count.

VoiceofReason said:
Actually it typically doesn’t rest on where you reside on the left to right “line” but what you tend to be conservative or liberal about.

I’m not much for abortion but I don’t think the federal govt. should be making policy about marriage in a church. both issues you would probably expect conservative Christians to be in lock step on but I don’t see it their way.

That is, indeed, reasonable. And, informed.

CosmosDan said:
I appreciate the link. There’s not a lot in there that specifically blames Palin.

Your welcome. This is what started the insanity and I believe he only mentions Palin once. I wonder if he is going to issue a retraction now that the facts have surfaced. I won’t hold my breath.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10krugman.html

That’s You’re, damn this site needs an edit function.

VoiceofReason said:
First all of Dan you indiicate in a left handed way that she wants this attention….really? Is that what you get? she wants crazed hacks renting thehouse next to her so they can peep in her windows and maybe get a salacious pic of her arguing with her husband? Or maybe he can get a titilating shot of one of the little girls boobs slipping out of a bathrobe?

C’mon man.

Did I say anything like that? She very obviously used her new found media attention form the election to make her fortune and there;s nothing wrong with that. The thing is that seeking to be a media star means getting attention and that attention comes with a price. The same goes for others with celebrity status. You know you give up a lot of your privacy for the money that goes with being a media star. When you decide to make your fortune criticizing others you might expect some directed at you. I am in no way excusing or justifying the extreme examples that you cited.

VoiceofReason said:
As to the last…..that is about as diingeuous a statement as I have seen any of the other hyper-partisans make yet you seemingly are trying to portray the level-headed role.

Do you seriously contend that no how, no way could any reasonable person construe what has been said over the past 5 days as blaming Palin and RWers in general?

I’m not sure why you like to read things into my post that I don’t actually say but it’s happened before. Maybe you can refrain from that. I asked a question looking for examples. I did not contend there weren’t any.
I haven’t been reading the multitude of threads on this in the last few days because the pissing contest going on wasn’t interesting to me.

The Real Royal King said:
Writing of “group fantasies of martyrdom,” Buchanan challenged the historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel exhaust at Treblinka: “Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody.” (New Republic, 10/22/90)

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2553

There is a good PBS documentary series on Netflix that you can see instantly titled Auschwitz: Inside the Nazi State that goes into this in great detail. They also used diesel fumes at Chelmno and Belzec (where my in-laws died). Buchanan has a pretty thin resume.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan

Penguin60 said:
Your welcome. This is what started the insanity and I believe he only mentions Palin once. I wonder if he is going to issue a retraction now that the facts have surfaced. I won’t hold my breath.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10krugman.html

Thanks again.

Personally I don’t find that article that outrageous. I don’t agree completely but it’s a matter of degrees.
Although we can’t blame Tuscon on rhetoric , I think it’s correct that we consider how a steady diet of divisive and hateful language creates an atmosphere that makes it more likely.

Would someone please stick some duct tape over Sarah’s mouth so she can’t get her

foot in? Agree with me? http://upc.bz/0170

Pat was great today. He is like the mature, adult father to his idiot, imbecilic, moronic and ignorant son/daughter Chrissy Matthews as he scolds Chrissy in front of a TV camera. Chrissy is one sick ??? Not sure why he/she is allowed in front of a TV camera. The good news is not many people watch Chrissy’s show! Goofy is not a stong enough word to describe Chrissy!

It’s absolutely astounding that in a “discussion” that is prefaced on the idea that political discourse has lost all sense of civility and boundaries, the most inflammatory of accusations and epithets are lobbied so relentlessly.

It’s as though the entire world has made principle synonymous with strategy, and no one possesses a mirror.

Like Buchanan, Murcuh’s Little People have a lot of class. TUCSON. See them screaming & applauding at improper times. See them each day – w their balloons & ribbons. A time for them to gather together – so as not to be alone & be forced to think. Together – for they know not what! It’s just another form of “social networking” for them. Go thru the “busy motions.” Follow the herd!!! Yup.

CosmosDan said:
Although we can’t blame Tuscon on rhetoric , I think it’s correct that we consider how a steady diet of divisive and hateful language creates an atmosphere that makes it more likely.

That’s a fair assumption, and certainly would be a legitimate debate. Removed from this heinous act.

Penguin60 said:
That’s a fair assumption, and certainly would be a legitimate debate. Removed from this heinous act.

I agree. Jon S had a decent 20 minute discussion with Tim Pawlenty the other night and that’s exactly how he started the discussion.

@In Your Face Radio – I agree Palin was a hail mary by McCain. Problem was, it was 1st down on his own 40 with 2:45 left. The proper call would have been a slant route to the tight end (aka Secretary of State Dr Condoleezza Rice) about 15 yards directly in front of him. That display of poor judgement is exactly what lost him the election.

Pat is a hopeless, hysterical hypocrite of history, to boomerang a paraphrase of his own specialty — Spiro speechwriting — back at him.

Seeing 2012 From My Window said:

Blah, Blah, Bhal

Hey does anyone know how to get rid of a giant cockroach?

What does this reply say about TRRK?

.

THE REAL ROYAL KING said:
You know the Nazis called Jews “Schaben” or cockroaches. I see you and Palin share this Anti-Semitic propensity.