Amy Coney Barrett Pressed On What the Supreme Court Would Do If Trump Defied It

Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett joined New York Times columnist Ross Douthat Thursday on his podcast, Interesting Times.

Douthat and Justice Barrett covered a wide range of topics, including how Barrett sees the job and whether or not she has any ambition to be an icon like her predecessor on the court, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Barrett made clear she has no interest in being a cultural icon and sees her work as being “solitary.”

The conversation eventually turned to the Trump administration’s assault on the judicial system and how the Supreme Court views the separation of powers in the country.

“This will be the last question: One issue related to those kinds of short-term costs and long-term costs is the question of the Supreme Court’s own position in the balance of powers between the branches and its ability to get the other branches to heed its rulings,” Douthat said, winding down the interview. He added:

The Supreme Court does not command the power of the purse, doesn’t command the military, doesn’t have police powers. What it has, in a sense, is prestige, public support, a historic constitutional role.

And we’re in a moment — and we don’t have to make this specific to the Trump White House — when it’s very easy to imagine, from either the left or the right, some present or future president deciding to test the court, Andrew Jackson-style, saying: Interesting ruling, Justice Barrett. Good luck enforcing it.

How do you think about that potential challenge, as a member of the court?

Barrett replied, “Well, I think that you are absolutely right that just as the court must take account of the consequences on the institutional dynamics, say, between a current president and a future president, the balance of power between the executive branch and the legislative branch, that of course, those same kinds of institutional concerns for the long run are ones that play a part in the court’s separation of powers decisions and always have, because they also are reflected in concerns of the constitutional structure.”

Douthat pressed the question again, “OK, let me try that again: If a president defied the Supreme Court, what would you do?”

Barrett replied, “Well, as you say, the court lacks the power of the purse. We lack the power of the sword. And so, we interpret the Constitution, we draw on precedents, we have these questions of structure, and we make the most with the tools that we have.”

Watch above.