Biggest Takeaways from Testimony of Tim Morrison and Jennifer Williams

The House Intelligence Committee released more transcripts from closed-door testimony in President Donald Trump’s impeachment inquiry–from two witnesses who were on the July 25 call with Ukraine.

The Intel Committee released testimony from National Security Council Director Tim Morrison and Vice President Mike Pence aide Jennifer Williams on Saturday. Both are set to testify in an open congressional hearing next week.

It was previously reported that Morrison’s testimony had corroborated testimony from Amb. Bill Taylor.

Here are some of the biggest takeaways from the transcripts.

1. Morrison testified he was warned to stay away from Rudy Giuliani’s dealings in Ukraine.

Morrison told Congress that Fiona Hill, another witness, told him to stay away from Giuliani. He also stated he considered any mention of investigating the Ukrainian gas company Burisma to be part of an issue he tried to stay away from.

Q: And what did she say to you about Rudy Giuliani?

A [MORRISON]:She mentioned that Gordon [Sondland] talked with Rudy, and she mentioned that she stayed away from any conversation with Rudy and that I would be wise to do the same.

Q: And we’ll get to Burisma in a minute, but did she mention anything else, other than Burisma, in connection to what Rudy Giuliani’s interest in Ukraine was?

A: She mentioned Rudy – – and I should say cleanly for the record that, in some cases, I consider Burisma to sort of be a bucket of issues. Burisma is Burisma the company, Burisma is Hunter Biden on the board, and I sometimes lump together Burisma and the 2016 server in my head, chiefly because they are all issues I tried to stay away from. (pg. 24)

2. John Bolton had a private meeting with Trump about releasing aid to Ukraine, after which he told Morrison that Trump “was not yet ready” to approve releasing aid

Bolton, who was ousted by Trump earlier this year, appears to be an increasingly important figure in many of the witness’ testimony

Q: Did you understand, at that point, that the President was open to releasing the security assistance, based on what you understood occurred at that meeting?

A: Ambassador Bolton’s one-on-one meeting with the President

Q: Yes.

A: Sometime prior to Bedminster?

Q: Right.

[DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD]

MR. MORRISON: The President was not yet ready to approve the release of the assistance.

Q: And did you understand what the reason that he had was? Did you have an understanding of that?

A: I only —

Q: From Ambassador Bolton?

A: The extent of my recollection is that Ambassador Bolton simply said he wasn’t ready to do it. (pg. 267-268)

3. Williams, who listened in on the July 25 call between Trump and Volodymyr Zelensky, found the call “unusual” and overtly political in nature.

Morrison had also expressed concern about the call’s contents in his testimony, saying he feared a leaked transcript of the call could “politicize Ukraine.” Williams testified that she found the call “unusal” because it brought up investigations that would politically benefit Trump.

Q: Okay. During the July 25 call, did you have any concerns about the conversation that you heard between President Trump and President Zelensky?

A I certainly noted that the mention of those specific investigations seemed unusual as compared to other discussions with foreign leadens.

Q: And why were they unusual?

A: I believed those references to be more political in nature and so that struck me as unusual.

Q: Were you involved in preparing talking points for President Trump for that July 25 call?

A: No.

Q: Okay. Did you see the call package on talking points in advance of the call?

A No.

Q: So you just — you learned about the call and were asked to participate in it?

A: Correct.  (pg. 149)

4. Morrison testified Sondland was regularly in contact with Trump and had told him and others he was acting on Trump’s orders in regard to his actions in Ukraine.

Morrison related that he whenever he checked if Sondland had spoken with Trump, he found out he had done so.

THE CHAIRMAN: And he understood his responsibilities to be doing what the President asked him to do?

MR. MORRISON: He related to me he was acting — he was discussing these matters with the President.

THE CHAIRMAN: And, in fact, every time you went to check to see whether he had, in fact, talked to the President you found that he had talked to the President?

MR. MORRISON: Yes, Mr. Chairman. (pg 230)

5. Mike Pence didn’t bring up Trump’s suggestions of investigations into the 2016 election or the Bidens during a later meeting with Zelensky. 

Williams also testified that Zelensky was concerned about the status of aid, pointing to a Politico article published on August 28 that said Trump was “slow-walking” aid.

Q: And during the course of the meeting there was no discussion a of any investigations that the Ukrainians were to do?

A: No specific investigations, no.

Q: Okay. Like the 2016 election didn’t come up?

A: It did not.

Q: CrowdStrike didn’t come up?

A: No.

Q: Okay. Former VP Biden —

A: No.

Q: — didn’t come up? The name wasn’t uttered?

A: Not once.

Q: And the name Burisma never came up?

A: No.

Q: And you weren’t surprised by that?

A: No, I wasn’t expecting those specific issues to necessarily to come up. (pg 84)

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