1.6 billion Muslims. 20 million Jews. In any other context, the answer of who we should “side” with would be obvious. But pragmatism and strategy go out the window where religion is involved.

Fact: No way Muslims are for peace. Got to be joking………………… Sorry Israel we will again back you after 2012 when we through out the bumbs.

Our angry, vengeful god is way more peaceful than your angry, vengeful god.

Just4thefax said:
Fact: No way Muslims are for peace. Got to be joking………………… Sorry Israel we will again back you after 2012 when we through out the bumbs.

*throw *bums. Bad spelling is indicative of not reading very much. Knowledge is acquired through reading. Draw your own conclusions.

‘Terror Has A Religion And It Is Islam’

So predictable that a 19 year old would state the obvious.

When is MEDIAITE going to report on the the MASSIVE GAFFE by or IDIOT in CHIEF!!!

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2011/06/24/obama-makes-another-military-gaffe-mistakes-fallen-soldier-living

Netanyahu’s son is wise beyond his years.

Azarkhan said:
‘Terror Has A Religion And It Is Islam’

So predictable that a 19 year old would state the obvious.

right when he is in the military ..

The militaries all over the world have codes of silence. There are certain things a military personnel isn’t supposed to say regardless of that person’s opinions. Isreal has been in a perpetual war with Palestine and I doubt he won’t be punished or silenced by higher personnel.. but then again its a different country.

Religion is the cause of wars when it comes to that area of Middle East.

Whether or not he is in the military and regardless of whose son he may be, he see first hand evidence of the truth everyday. The facts speak for themselves, Islam IS a religion that celebrates ‘hate and death’. Can anyone deny this?
Of course, I didn’t see any article on Mediate when the 3rd Intifada page was taken down from Facebook calling for millions of muslim (3 million “likes” before it was taken down) to invade Israel and overrun it’s borders. Their hateful rhetoric for both Israel and America was very clear on FB, only an idiot would disregard the words of promised destruction.
But no, we get the simple words of a 17 year old soldier as if they are somehow full of revelation, profound and an indictment against Islam. He only spoke the truth.

…you say things like, say, Muslims “celebrate hate and death” or that “terror has a religion and it is Islam.”

palestinians celebrate murder of fogel family

As a proud American Jew who grew up listening to stories about the period of time when my grandfather’s family suddenly stopped receiving desperate letters from their Polish relatives, never to hear from them again, this makes me unbelievably sad.

My family knows all too well what happens when we begin painting an entire religion as the enemy. How utterly tragic.

“Complains”???? Really?…Stating a FACT is now “complaining”?..Wow MEDIAite.

carlinist said:
Religion is the cause of wars when it comes to that area of Middle East.

Yeah, particularly the religions of Islam and Atheism*

*the belief of “no God” is held by its adherents as a form of worship of one’s self

Publius219 said:
1.6 billion Muslims. 20 million Jews. In any other context, the answer of who we should “side” with would be obvious. But pragmatism and strategy go out the window where religion is involved.

You do understand that in every country that was invaded and conquered by Muslims (which is every Muslim nation btw), there were not-so-smart people who had similar thoughts.

Thelonious Funk said:
Our angry, vengeful god is way more peaceful than your angry, vengeful god.

Doubt that you have read the Bible or the Koran. Just “pick n’ choose” whatever fits your own opinion

Just4thefax said:
Fact: No way Muslims are for peace. Got to be joking………………… Sorry Israel we will again back you after 2012 when we through out the bumbs.

What a stupid thing to say. There numerous schools of Islam that preach widely disparate things, many of them quite peaceful.

Fifteen years ago, you might have well have pointed to the IRA and claimed that there was “no way Catholics are for peace.” Please work harder to keep your hate and ignorance to yourself.

OxyCon said:
You do understand that in every country that was invaded and conquered by Muslims (which is every Muslim nation btw), there were not-so-smart people who had similar thoughts.

You do understand that the broad brush of generalizations is a favorite tool of the ignorant, right? Why can’t I smoke a Cuban cigar yet all my clothes are made in China? Pragmatism.

Publius219 said:
You do understand that the broad brush of generalizations is a favorite tool of the ignorant, right? Why can’t I smoke a Cuban cigar yet all my clothes are made in China? Pragmatism.

Are the Cubans and Chinese obeying a moon god that tells them to kill “infidels”?

Dsiscokid said:
Doubt that you have read the Bible or the Koran. Just “pick n’ choose” whatever fits your own opinion

I have. You wanna know what a fun game is? Throw some of the most hateful, violent passages from each, throw them into a hat, and pick one out and try to guess which book it comes from. Turns out it’s a pretty difficult venture, and they say a lot of similarly hateful, violent things.

Here is an electronic version of the game. See how you do in figuring out which vengeful, violent, misogynistic passages come from your good book:

http://bibleorquran.webs.com/game.swf

Dsiscokid said:
Yeah, particularly the religions of Islam and Atheism*

*the belief of “no God” is held by its adherents as a form of worship of one’s self

Actually, no, it’s most definitely not. It is the absence of worship of anything.

Could you please point me to the Middle East wars provoked by atheists in any way?

Publius219 said:
You do understand that the broad brush of generalizations is a favorite tool of the ignorant, right? Why can’t I smoke a Cuban cigar yet all my clothes are made in China? Pragmatism.

Whole lotta dead pragmatists left in the wake of advancing Islam.

lillyluminatus said:
As a proud American Jew who grew up listening to stories about the period of time when my grandfather’s family suddenly stopped receiving desperate letters from their Polish relatives, never to hear from them again, this makes me unbelievably sad. My family knows all too well what happens when we begin painting an entire religion as the enemy. How utterly tragic.

Utter tragedy is when Israel is wiped off the map by islamic terrorists, and we did nothing about it because we didn’t want to look evil in the eye.

Until Islam purges their MAINSTREAM of hate and calling for the destruction of the Jews, I don’t feel the least bit bad about painting an entire religion in their true light.

Or how about this: compare the worst case scenarios for both sides, and then ask yourself: Which would I rather be wrong about?

I think Id rather be wrong about wrongfully admonishing islam than being wrong by not taking seriously islam’s specifically stated desire to murder 20 million jews.

lillyluminatus said:
I have. You wanna know what a fun game is? Throw some of the most hateful, violent passages from each, throw them into a hat, and pick one out and try to guess which book it comes from. Turns out it’s a pretty difficult venture, and they say a lot of similarly hateful, violent things. Here is an electronic version of the game. See how you do in figuring out which vengeful, violent, misogynistic passages come from your good book: http://bibleorquran.webs.com/game.swf

Obviously none of your assumptions would be in proper or correct context

BarneyFranken said:
Utter tragedy is when Israel is wiped off the map by islamic terrorists, and we did nothing about it because we didn’t want to look evil in the eye.

Until Islam purges their MAINSTREAM of hate and calling for the destruction of the Jews, I don’t feel the least bit bad about painting an entire religion in their true light.

Or how about this: compare the worst case scenarios for both sides, and then ask yourself: Which would I rather be wrong about?

I think Id rather be wrong about wrongfully admonishing islam than being wrong by not taking seriously islam’s specifically stated desire to murder 20 million jews.

Why don’t you just rightfully admonish the individuals who hold that belief, and avoid pissing off and alienating billions upon billions of people? If you haven’t noticed, we continue to provide Israel with massive defense assistance. You are arguing against a straw man that no one has proposed.

Dsiscokid said:
Obviously none of your assumptions would be in proper or correct context

Not sure what you’re trying to say…

What are my assumptions? And what is the “proper” context?

Dsiscokid said:
Obviously none of your assumptions would be in proper or correct context

BTW, still waiting for all of those atheist Middle East wars…

lillyluminatus said:
Why don’t you just rightfully admonish the individuals who hold that belief, and avoid pissing off and alienating billions upon billions of people? If you haven’t noticed, we continue to provide Israel with massive defense assistance. You are arguing against a straw man that no one has proposed.

And for the love of His Noodliness, NOTHING is “Islam’s” specifically stated desire. Islam is not a person, it is a religion.

lillyluminatus said:
If you haven’t noticed, we continue to provide Israel with massive defense assistance.

As Billions of illiterate Muslims are raised from the womb to hate and blame “The Jews” for every ill in their society, according to the Koran, as told told to them by their Iman

Dsiscokid said:
As Billions of illiterate Muslims are raised from the womb to hate and blame “The Jews” for every ill in their society, according to the Koran, as told told to them by their Iman

And you are better than them how? Because for the life of me, you sound much more like the “ignorant Muslim” you so despise than any form of civilized human being.

lillyluminatus said:
BTW, still waiting for all of those atheist Middle East wars…

Would Saddam’s Baath Party count as one? Perhaps you would prefer that I use the term “secular” rather than “atheist”?

This current “Arab Spring” being a co-production of radical Islam and the leftist “secular” movement. Half credit on that one?

And again, I am STILL waiting for a list for all of those Middle Eastern wars we atheists started…

lillyluminatus said:
you sound much more like the “ignorant Muslim” you so despise than any form of civilized human being.

….because I disagree with your premise? Not very “tolerant” or “diverse” on your part…..

lillyluminatus said:
BTW, still waiting for all of those atheist Middle East wars…

lillyluminatus said:
And again, I am STILL waiting for a list for all of those Middle Eastern wars we atheists started…

Would ANYTHING the U.N. touches count?
Well, there is that Gaia goddess thing, so that’s out……

Dsiscokid said:
Would Saddam’s Baath Party count as one? Perhaps you would prefer that I use the term “secular” rather than “atheist”?

This current “Arab Spring” being a co-production of radical Islam and the leftist “secular” movement. Half credit on that one?

Um, no, for several reasons. As far as I know, the Baath Party started no wars in the name of atheism or secularism, and if they did, it was to prevent the very Islamic theocracy you seem to so despise. Speaking of which, now you have me thoroughly confused–you despise theocratic Muslim Middle Eastern governments AND secular Middle Eastern governments, for no reason other than that they are either Muslim or secular? I hate to break it to you, but in that region, those are pretty much your only options. Unless you plan on reigniting the Crusades, that is…

And wouldn’t your logic also apply to this great “Christian” nation of ours? By God, I think we’ve found undeniable proof that Christians are a bunch of violent war-mongors!!

Dsiscokid said:
As Billions of illiterate Muslims are raised from the womb to hate and blame “The Jews” for every ill in their society, according to the Koran, as told told to them by their Iman

As a Christian I MUST……

Matthew 5:44
King James Version (KJV)
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”

Dsiscokid said:
….because I disagree with your premise? Not very “tolerant” or “diverse” on your part…..

No, because what you say is quite literally the same as what those hateful Muslims say, with just a few words swapped out (Jew for Muslim, for instance).

lillyluminatus said:
Um, no, for several reasons. As far as I know, the Baath Party started no wars in the name of atheism or secularism, and if they did, it was to prevent the very Islamic theocracy you seem to so despise. Speaking of which, now you have me thoroughly confused–you despise theocratic Muslim Middle Eastern governments AND secular Middle Eastern governments, for no reason other than that they are either Muslim or secular? I hate to break it to you, but in that region, those are pretty much your only options. Unless you plan on reigniting the Crusades, that is… And wouldn’t your logic also apply to this great “Christian” nation of ours? By God, I think we’ve found undeniable proof that Christians are a bunch of violent war-mongors!!

Why are you so full of hatred?

lillyluminatus said:
you say is quite literally the same as what those hateful Muslims say, with just a few words swapped out (Jew for Muslim, for instance).

Dsiscokid said:
As a Christian I MUST…… Matthew 5:44King James Version (KJV)“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”

Dsiscokid said:
Why are you so full of hatred?

You have to be kidding me. Please point to the hatred (and no, the sarcastic part at the end doesn’t count).

The only one hate-mongoring around here is you, my friend.

You have to be kidding me. Please point to the hatred (and no, the sarcastic part at the end doesn’t count).

The only one hate-mongoring around here is you, my friend.

Dsiscokid said:
Are the Cubans and Chinese obeying a moon god that tells them to kill “infidels”?

Are you in some way asserting that the Christian God is in any way less fictitious than the Muslim God? (They’re the same God, by the way).

Dsiscokid said:
As a Christian I MUST……

Matthew 5:44
King James Version (KJV)
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”

Hahaha. Um, the lip services after an hour of ranting about the inherent evil of Muslims really doesn’t help your cause.

BUT, yay! I was so hoping we were going to play this game!

“If your very own brother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying ‘Let us go and worship other gods”…do not yield to him or listen to him. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death…Stone him to death.” [Deuteronomy, 13:6-10]

“If a man or woman among you…has worshipped other gods…take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.” [Deuteronomy, 17:2-7]

“All who not seek [God] were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.” [II Chronicles 15:13]

“Whoever sacrifices to any god other than [God] must be destroyed.” [Exodus 22:20]

lillyluminatus said:
lillyluminatus

I apologize for any sarcasm, but the condescending tone of your comments, the “Atheism is holier-than-thou” attitude makes it hard to have a civilized discussion. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. Seriously

lillyluminatus said:
BUT, yay! I was so hoping we were going to play this game!

If you insist…….

lillyluminatus said:
“If your very own brother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying ‘Let us go and worship other gods”…do not yield to him or listen to him. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death…Stone him to death.” [Deuteronomy, 13:6-10]
“If a man or woman among you…has worshipped other gods…take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.” [Deuteronomy, 17:2-7]
“All who not seek [God] were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.” [II Chronicles 15:13]
“Whoever sacrifices to any god other than [God] must be destroyed.” [Exodus 22:20]

Old Testament Law for Law-abiding, observant Jews from thousands of years ago….

Nice try by taking the Bible out of context…….

Luke 24:27
King James Version (KJV)
“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”

This is Jesus talking to two men on the road to Emmaus about Himself, after His Resurection.

Also check out Isaiah 53 when you get a chance

Dsiscokid said:
I apologize for any sarcasm, but the condescending tone of your comments, the “Atheism is holier-than-thou” attitude makes it hard to have a civilized discussion. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. Seriously

I really think that you have a problem with projection. Do I think that atheism is preferable to religion? Perhaps. Do you think that your religion is preferable to Islam? Well that would be one hell of an understatement.

Look, I’m not saying I’m not guilty of this as well. I find it strange that you keep accusing me of things that have characterized almost every statement you’ve made.

lillyluminatus said:
Hahaha. Um, the lip services after an hour of ranting about the inherent evil of Muslims really doesn’t help your cause.

BUT, yay! I was so hoping we were going to play this game!

“If your very own brother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying ‘Let us go and worship other gods”…do not yield to him or listen to him. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death…Stone him to death.” [Deuteronomy, 13:6-10]

“If a man or woman among you…has worshipped other gods…take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.” [Deuteronomy, 17:2-7]

“All who not seek [God] were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.” [II Chronicles 15:13]

“Whoever sacrifices to any god other than [God] must be destroyed.” [Exodus 22:20]

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

lillyluminatus said:
Hahaha. Um, the lip services after an hour of ranting about the inherent evil of Muslims really doesn’t help your cause.

BUT, yay! I was so hoping we were going to play this game!

“If your very own brother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying ‘Let us go and worship other gods”…do not yield to him or listen to him. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death…Stone him to death.” [Deuteronomy, 13:6-10]

“If a man or woman among you…has worshipped other gods…take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.” [Deuteronomy, 17:2-7]

“All who not seek [God] were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.” [II Chronicles 15:13]

“Whoever sacrifices to any god other than [God] must be destroyed.” [Exodus 22:20]

“But that’s the Jewish Bible!”

Dsiscokid said:
If you insist…….

Old Testament Law for Law-abiding, observant Jews from thousands of years ago….

Nice try by taking the Bible out of context…….

Luke 24:27
King James Version (KJV)
“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”

This is Jesus talking to two men on the road to Emmaus about Himself, after His Resurection.

Also check out Isaiah 53 when you get a chance

Does this mean that every “Christian” who waxes eloquent on the evils of homosexuality, based on Old Testament passages, is merely taking the Bible out of context as well?

I ask this in all seriousness.

Publius219 said:
Are you in some way asserting that the Christian God is in any way less fictitious than the Muslim God? (They’re the same God, by the way).

I am asserting ABSOLUTELY that the One true living God (John 17:3) has nothing in common with the Sabian moon-god allah from the late B.C. Mohammed’s tribe worshipped the moon-god and its daughter’s…..

Dsiscokid said:
I am asserting ABSOLUTELY that the One true living God (John 17:3) has nothing in common with the Sabian moon-god allah from the late B.C. Mohammed’s tribe worshipped the moon-god and its daughter’s…..

Prove it. lolololololololol.

“I believe what I believe, because it’s what I believe, and I believe it.” Circular reasoning run amok.

Dsiscokid said:
I am asserting ABSOLUTELY that the One true living God (John 17:3) has nothing in common with the Sabian moon-god allah from the late B.C. Mohammed’s tribe worshipped the moon-god and its daughter’s…..

Hahahaha. And yet I am the “condescending” one with a “holier-than-thou” attitude.

lillyluminatus said:
Does this mean that every “Christian” who waxes eloquent on the evils of homosexuality, based on Old Testament passages, is merely taking the Bible out of context as well?
I ask this in all seriousness.

They don’t have to. Read Romans Chapter One and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 in the N.T.

Also before the Law was given to Moses, in Genesis 19, God dealt with sins of Sodom and Gomorrah

Jesus gave His life to save ALL of us from our sins. If only we would believe on Him and turn from our sins

1 Timothy 1:15
King James Version (KJV)
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Dsiscokid said:
They don’t have to. Read Romans Chapter One and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 in the N.T.

Also before the Law was given to Moses, in Genesis 19, God dealt with sins of Sodom and Gomorrah

Jesus gave His life to save ALL of us from our sins. If only we would believe on Him and turn from our sins

1 Timothy 1:15
King James Version (KJV)
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Bummer. Sounds pretty holier-than-thou, though. As in, like, the definition of it.

Dsiscokid said:
Jesus gave His life to save ALL of us from our sins.
.

No. That was Frodo.

Publius219 said:
Prove it. lolololololololol. “I believe what I believe, because it’s what I believe, and I believe it.” Circular reasoning run amok.

Are you truly that ignorant about historical evidence? Too lazy to search these things out for yourself? Too comfortable in your own willfull ignorance? Or simply intellectually dishonest?

lillyluminatus said:
Hahahaha. And yet I am the “condescending” one with a “holier-than-thou” attitude.

I was answering their question that God and allah were the same

lillyluminatus said:
Bummer. Sounds pretty holier-than-thou, though. As in, like, the definition of it.

Oh I get it. Whatever you don’t like or agree with, rather than have a debate about, you dismiss out of hand.

Revelation 22:11-12
King James Version (KJV)
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

You can’t say that you have not been warned

Dsiscokid said:
Are you truly that ignorant about historical evidence? Too lazy to search these things out for yourself? Too comfortable in your own willfull ignorance? Or simply intellectually dishonest?

So you’re saying that there’s proof that your God exists and that therefore your God is correct and superior to the Muslim God? And I don’t mean “every time I see a child smile”. I mean proof. I’d very much like to see this.

lillyluminatus said:
Bummer. Sounds pretty holier-than-thou, though. As in, like, the definition of it.

Ahh Lilly,

You were an Attorney the other day. Then you became an Astronaut. Are you a Doctor this week?

purveyor said:
Ahh Lilly,

You were an Attorney the other day. Then you became an Astronaut. Are you a Doctor this week?

Nope, still an attorney.

But I am quite curious–when did I become an astronaut? Because I am quite bummed about missing that one!

Publius219 said:
So you’re saying that there’s proof that your God exists and that therefore your God is correct and superior to the Muslim God? And I don’t mean “every time I see a child smile”. I mean proof. I’d very much like to see this.

Look in the mirror for your proof. Inhale and exhale for your proof. Study the Bible for your proof.

Dsiscokid said:
Oh I get it. Whatever you don’t like or agree with, rather than have a debate about, you dismiss out of hand.

No, not at all. I’ve found it’s quite impossible to debate with people on matters of religion–everyone has his or her own “truth.” Just pointing out your hypocrisy is all.

Publius219 said:
Prove it. lolololololololol. “I believe what I believe, because it’s what I believe, and I believe it.” Circular reasoning run amok.

Publius219 said:
So you’re saying that there’s proof that your God exists and that therefore your God is correct and superior to the Muslim God? And I don’t mean “every time I see a child smile”. I mean proof. I’d very much like to see this.

Circular reasoning run amok, indeed……

lillyluminatus said:
No, not at all. I’ve found it’s quite impossible to debate with people on matters of religion–everyone has his or her own “truth.” Just pointing out your hypocrisy is all.

run, run away from debates on religion, i never go there

carlinist said:
Religion is the cause of wars when it comes to that area of Middle Eas

Try this on:

We convince the young Palestinian Women to dress a bit less demure. Give the young men some fast cars and a strip to cruise. Some Drive in Theaters, maybe a concert, a Drive in. A place to make the scene.

In other words, let the boys chase the girls like they do almost everywhere else. Suddenly priorities change?

“Hello, I love you won’t you tell me your name

Hello, I love you let me jump in your game.”

Seriously, the repressive Islamic culture leaves little else to do for young, handsome Arab males, except complain of hardship and blame others.

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

cjd ohio 1 said:
run, run away from debates on religion, i never go there

Agreed (unless you are being sarcastic…?)

I have no problem debating how religious principles should influence public policy, but even this atheist understands that everyone has her own beliefs that should be respected, and very little I say will ever influence those beliefs.

More than that, it’s just not really my business what someone else believes on matters of religion. My philosophy is this: I am happy you have found your truth; it’s just not my truth.

lillyluminatus said:
everyone has his or her own “truth.”

As do most Atheists.

lillyluminatus said:
Just pointing out your hypocrisy is all.

Yet the godless among us are far, far superior in intellect and reason than us Bible-believers, no?
No God and no morals doesn’t equal no consequences or no accountability

lillyluminatus said:
But I am quite curious–when did I become an astronaut?

When I questioned your veracity. Something about your behavior doesn’t quite seem right.

An Attorney seeks to persuade or change minds to their position. You do neither?

A curious incongruity, for someone who claims to have attended “a top 25 Law school”. Then again, it may have something to do with your GPA?

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

Dsiscokid said:
As do most Atheists.

Yet the godless among us are far, far superior in intellect and reason than us Bible-believers, no?
No God and no morals doesn’t equal no consequences or no accountability

There comes that holier-than-thou thing again.

No God does not equal no morals, you close-minded bigot. There is a reason that both newborn infants and chimps display a sincere and serious concern for the well-being of others–because empathy is an inherent human quality.

In fact, from where I’m standing, religion does nothing but muddle matters of morality.

Morality is about the prevention and infliction of suffering on humans and animals, no more and no less. Has nothing to do with whom you love, or what you wear, or to whom you pray. All that matters is how what you do contributes to or lessens the suffering of others.

lillyluminatus said:
Agreed (unless you are being sarcastic…?) I.

nope, i wasn’t

Dsiscokid said:
Look in the mirror for your proof. Inhale and exhale for your proof. Study the Bible for your proof.

I stole your first one, huh?

Benjamin Netanyahu is a warrior, philosopher and scholar.

purveyor said:
When I questioned your veracity. Something about your behavior doesn’t quite seem right.

An Attorney seeks to persuade or change minds to their position. You do neither?

A curious incongruity, for someone who claims to have attended “a top 25 Law school”. Then again, it may have something to do with your GPA?

PURVEYOR OF RHETORIC

Last time I checked, a 3.4 from a Top 25 law school is pretty respectable.

But I really and truly couldn’t care less what you think of my rhetorical skills. Believe it or not, I am not actually practicing law here on the Mediaite comment board. I’m presenting my beliefs on a given issue, just like everyone else.

The Pharisees and Sadducees were lawyers in their day, also

Luke 11:52
King James Version (KJV)
“Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.”

lillyluminatus said:
I’m presenting my beliefs on a given issue, just like everyone else.

Something we can both agree on

Dsiscokid said:
Yeah, particularly the religions of Islam and Atheism*

*the belief of “no God” is held by its adherents as a form of worship of one’s self

Two main reasons why wars occur

1) nationalism
2) Religion

Show me one good example where atheism has caused war(if it did, see if it was caused by nationalism)
Then show it to me.

carlinist said:
Two main reasons why wars occur 1) nationalism2) Religion Show me one good example where atheism has caused war(if it did, see if it was caused by nationalism)Then show it to me.

1 John 2:16
King James Version (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1) The lust of the flesh (power and control over others, as an example)
2) The lust of the eyes (covetousness “wanting something that is not yours”, which leads to stealing, as an example)
3) The pride of life (“My tribe/clan/race/ethnicity is superior to your tribe/clan/race/ethnicity”)

Granted, these human attributes can and do mask themselves under Nationalism and Religion (and Secular Humanism) but the root cause is sinful, unrepentant human nature that we ALL have inherited from the first humans Adam and Eve…..

Dsiscokid said:
The Pharisees and Sadducees were lawyers in their day, also

Luke 11:52
King James Version (KJV)
“Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.”

Who wrote the bible, anyway? And I don’t mean who “inspired” it. I mean who actually physically wrote it. All of the verses. Or any one of them.

Dsiscokid said:
1 John 2:16
King James Version (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1) The lust of the flesh (power and control over others, as an example)
2) The lust of the eyes (covetousness “wanting something that is not yours”, which leads to stealing, as an example)
3) The pride of life (“My tribe/clan/race/ethnicity is superior to your tribe/clan/race/ethnicity”)

Granted, these human attributes can and do mask themselves under Nationalism and Religion (and Secular Humanism) but the root cause is sinful, unrepentant human nature that we ALL have inherited from the first humans Adam and Eve…..

You’d be funny (well, funnier) if your simplistic baseless beliefs weren’t so widely held, and so counterproductive and corrosive in the sphere of public policy.

Publius219 said:
Who wrote the bible, anyway? And I don’t mean who “inspired” it. I mean who actually physically wrote it. All of the verses. Or any one of them.

Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time. Most ancient writings written on weak materials like papyrus have vanished all together. Yet many copies of the Old Testament scriptures survived. For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. Consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only ten copies written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ.

The Bible also validates its divine authorship through fulfilled prophecies. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false (three are unconfirmed). An honest study of biblical prophecy will compellingly show the divine authorship of the Bible. Further, archeology confirms (or in some cases supports) accounts in the biblical record. No other holy book comes close to the Bible in the amount of evidence supporting its divine authorship.

Publius219 said:
You’d be funny (well, funnier) if your simplistic baseless beliefs weren’t so widely held, and so counterproductive and corrosive in the sphere of public policy.

What’s really funny, in a sad way of course, is that your unfruitful, shallow, and ignorant beliefs ARE so widely held by far too many who are in the sphere of public policy

Why is my comment from 7:44PM “awaiting moderation”?

Dsiscokid said:
What’s really funny, in a sad way of course, is that your unfruitful, shallow, and ignorant beliefs ARE so widely held by far too many who are in the sphere of public policy

Says the guy who literally believes Adam and Eve were the first two humans. I didn’t realize they spoke English back then.

Publius219 said:
I didn’t realize they spoke English back then.

Who says they did?

Publius219 said:
Says the guy who literally believes Adam and Eve were the first two humans

What say you? How do you think humans arrived here?

Dsiscokid said:
What say you? How do you think humans arrived here?

I’m not arrogant enough to claim to know, but I defer to scientists over anti-scientists.

Publius219 said:
I’m not arrogant enough to claim to know, but I defer to scientists over anti-scientists.

We are both trusting in someone other than ourselves for the answers to life. The difference is that I’m trusting God and you are trusting man.

Publius219 said:
Publius219

http://www.allabouttruth.org/ – check it out when you get a chance

Publius219 said:
Who wrote the bible, anyway? And I don’t mean who “inspired” it. I mean who actually physically wrote it. All of the verses. Or any one of them.

http://www.allabouttruth.org/ – this is the site where I found the answer to your question earlier. I did a copy/paste on the specific question you asked, but it is still “awaiting moderation” (?)

Dsiscokid said:
1 John 2:16
King James Version (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1) The lust of the flesh (power and control over others, as an example)
2) The lust of the eyes (covetousness “wanting something that is not yours”, which leads to stealing, as an example)
3) The pride of life (“My tribe/clan/race/ethnicity is superior to your tribe/clan/race/ethnicity”)

Granted, these human attributes can and do mask themselves under Nationalism and Religion (and Secular Humanism) but the root cause is sinful, unrepentant human nature that we ALL have inherited from the first humans Adam and Eve…..

Those attributes do show in every body and structure in this world. Even in the church, you see this. But we are human. In our quest to try to get away from these attributes, we have masked ourselves in every religion possible and worshiped everything possible, while the religious leaders have taken advantage of this and the ruling bodies have taken advantage of this too. This has made us worthless slaves of the higher flawed order. We always try to be something who we are not. In the end we all are Human and there is nothing that can change that.

One thing however that Humans have possessed (since Adam and Eve, as you say), is the idea of questioning. This is what is behind science and enlightenment ideas. This is what lets you and me speak freely. Because the Enlightened led rebellions against religion and government, we have gotten rights that we didn’t have.

Dsiscokid said:
We are both trusting in someone other than ourselves for the answers to life. The difference is that I’m trusting God and you are trusting man.

I trust the latter.
I never trust rulers
i never trust power on others hands.

This is the human spirit, when you think of it. But We would love to be rulers ourselves and gain power over others. This is why we need to believe in ideology, not religious scriptures, to gain Enlightenment.

lillyluminatus said:
No God does not equal no morals, you close-minded bigot. There is a reason that both newborn infants and chimps display a sincere and serious concern for the well-being of others–because empathy is an inherent human quality.
In fact, from where I’m standing, religion does nothing but muddle matters of morality.
Morality is about the prevention and infliction of suffering on humans and animals, no more and no less. Has nothing to do with whom you love, or what you wear, or to whom you pray. All that matters is how what you do contributes to or lessens the suffering of others.

And what do you base YOUR definition of morality on? Why do you compare human beings to chimpanzees? God has placed a natural sense of morality, as flawed as it may be without His intervention in our lives, into every human. (see Romans 2:13-15)
Yet without God in our lives humans will rationalize, for example, that abortion is not murder, humans “evolved” from a primate, and other such immoral, illogical conclusions

@Dsiscokid
I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but i do have to say is that, I question, even the good thing sometimes. I have doubt and I don’t fully believe what has been said until I can see and know and this is because I don’t believe that I need to be guided by someone. While some morals do help me on the way, They are not central to me, as they are to you.

Something that i wanted to share.

Dsiscokid said:
Yet without God in our lives humans will rationalize, for example, that abortion is not murder, humans “evolved” from a primate, and other such immoral, illogical conclusions

yep also in Science and medicine, where they have provided cure for thousands of diseases that religion hasn’t.

This is what an economic ecosystem of diversity brings to us, where religion and government doesn’t get very involved in the use of the product, where private enterprises, despite their craving of money, brings us products that we can use. Although we have been subject to overdependence, however i am thankful they are there.

carlinist said:
Because the Enlightened led rebellions against religion and government, we have gotten rights that we didn’t have.

There was one “enlightened” or “illuminated” one who rebelled against God.

Isaiah 14:12-15
King James Version (KJV)
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”

see Revelation 20:10 to see how it turns out for him….

carlinist said:
This is why we need to believe in ideology, not religious scriptures, to gain Enlightenment.

We need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone

John 10:10
King James Version (KJV)
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

carlinist said:
yep also in Science and medicine, where they have provided cure for thousands of diseases that religion hasn’t. This is what an economic ecosystem of diversity brings to us, where religion and government doesn’t get very involved in the use of the product, where private enterprises, despite their craving of money, brings us products that we can use. Although we have been subject to overdependence, however i am thankful they are there.

Agreed. Science and medicine are and should be used to preserve and protect Life. I fail to see how evolution and abortion do either

carlinist said:
@DsiscokidI don’t mean to be disrespectful, but i do have to say is that, I question, even the good thing sometimes. I have doubt and I don’t fully believe what has been said until I can see and know and this is because I don’t believe that I need to be guided by someone. While some morals do help me on the way, They are not central to me, as they are to you. Something that i wanted to share.

Fair point. As humans we all share those same doubts and are yearning for those answers. God has provided those answers for us in His Word. Sadly, most folks go searching in the wrong places for the answers to life. God loves us and wants the best for us, but in order for that to be accomplished in our lives, we have to go God’s way-

John 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:39
King James Version (KJV)
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17:11
King James Version (KJV)
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Romans 8:28
King James Version (KJV)
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Trust no man but God. Don’t take my word for it. Follow Him…

Well, how do u define suffering in this world even with God?

Look at Iraq, where Churches are getting bombed. Now you will say that i should believe in Christ and so should everyone with the faith that i will gain salvation and go to heaven.. but it is a faith. It is not real, nor is it proved to be.

What knowledge do i have to know that i will gain salvation?
life after death is a huge hole in human knowledge that we will never ever know and trying to speculate it and create a huge story based on it(like the new testament) won’t work. All the other religions try it too.

I do not look up to authority. the Authority has power because of us. For you who believe in a higher order, I say prove to me that the higher order exists in real life.

And don’t quote the bible or use spectral evidence to prove your point.

and also just so you know, i do believe in a higher order, but i know for sure what it is. It is entropy. Entropy in this world is ever increasing and that’s what happens all the time. As dumb as it sounds, entropy is what created us, and we the life forms who have civilized enough to know this(or at least capable of understanding this) can know that.

Because of this entropy, there is so much in the world we can’t understand and so much holes in our understanding that we try to fill. But in the end, those can’t be filled even by science. So when it isn’t known what is beyond those holes, it isn’t wise to believe in religions that MEN created and was very rigid in its explanation of life around us.

There is so much we don’t know and we are not certain about and most of these are to be left that way. Questioning does help, but when it comes to these holes, it is best not to fill them with anything without very solid proof, something that even science doesn’t provide.

The Mid East is the insane asylum of the world .

The reason so many Islamics are so nuts is : They marry their close relatives and have done so for 1600 years.

!600 years of inbreeding of so many have wreaked havoc on the group . The fact that so many don’t don’t go outside the family for wives is the cause .

Look it up . Few will tell the truth on this , but , there it is .

Dsiscokid said:
Sadly, most folks go searching in the wrong places for the answers to life.

Thats what religious folks would think. I wouldn’t and here is why.

These wrong places are sometimes defined by science in ways few people understand, but i know that i can trust them because they are provable in this current dimension. Every thing else in other dimensions that are investigated in science are simply voids in science. when you pursue science to the extend i do, you will understand. But these voids in Religion are simply exploited to the gain of that body. This is why I would like to keep science alone from government and religious interferences. but that rarely happens and most of the time, government is what limits science and its uses and sometimes defines its uses.

Whatever is undefined in math and science is undefined. Plain and simple.
However, in religion it can be shown in many different ways, some biased.

And talking about evolution, You might not understand how it works but let me explain.

In nature, every living thing is held to the same standard. Surviving as a species is not about strength or weaknesses, its about adaptability. There are living things living in volcanic hot springs, that are filled with sulfuric acid and have no other life. although these living things are very simple and microscopic they still live because they can survive. The difference between bible and evolution is that in bible humans are set higher and they are put in focus. In science humans are just another life form. If there is a sudden change in temperature or lets say there is a disease and majority of humans can’t survive. They will die. Now we have broken away from that chain by building civilizations. However it won’t be long before this apparatus fails.

We are given a brain. Think.

Also i highly recommend you read the book : Ishmael by Daniel Quinn

CARLINIST,

I was going to ask you about your name.

In fact in many of my posts, if I need to use the word “fool” I spell it “foole” (with the final “e” for George Carlin, RIP)

“Occupation–Foole”

Dsiscokid said:
I fail to see how evolution and abortion do either

And why do you lump evolution and abortion together?
just wanting to know your opinion.

purveyor said:
CARLINIST,

I was going to ask you about your name.

In fact in many of my posts, if I need to use the word “fool” I spell it “foole” (with the final “e” for George Carlin, RIP)

“Occupation–Foole”

yep thats where the name comes from :)

lillyluminatus said:
Last time I checked, a 3.4 from a Top 25 law school is pretty respectable.

But I really and truly couldn’t care less what you think of my rhetorical skills. Believe it or not, I am not actually practicing law here on the Mediaite comment board. I’m presenting my beliefs on a given issue, just like everyone else

LOL, Touche’. You walked right into my trap. If you play Chess, nevermind. LOL

Hey LILLY, pull my finger… LOL

carlinist said:
The militaries all over the world have codes of silence. There are certain things a military personnel isn’t supposed to say regardless of that person’s opinions

Actually, you couldn’t be more wrong. In the US, uniformed service personnel (contrary to popular opinion) do not cede their First Amendment rights when entering service. There are some very limited prohibitions about what you can say, especially while physically in unoform. Beyond not being contemptuous toward an official (Art. 88), DoD directive 134410p spells out pretty clearly what kinds of political statements you can say. In a nutshell, so long as you don’t represent your opinions as those of the US Armed Forces and you don’t say them in an official capacity, you can actually say quite a bit before running afoul of the UCMJ and other regulations.

What this young man said would EASILY be allowable under curtain US regulations. There is no “code of silence”.

BTW, I served 26-years in the Marine Corps. I’m not guessing.

Just to point out an absurdity of religion….Gay marriage passed in NY tonight. Diaz, one of the most outspoken opponents of gay marriage in NY senate, cited the Catholic League as saying gay marriage would be bad for society. You know what’s bad for society? Institutionally protected child f*ckers that the Catholic church has harbored for hundreds of years. Not consenting adults exercising a right that impacts nobody else’s ability to exercise their rights. And I don’t really care if your 4,000 year old book says it’s not okay.

Republitarian said:
Actually, you couldn’t be more wrong. In the US, uniformed service personnel (contrary to popular opinion) do not cede their First Amendment rights when entering service. There are some very limited prohibitions about what you can say, especially while physically in unoform. Beyond not being contemptuous toward an official (Art. 88), DoD directive 134410p spells out pretty clearly what kinds of political statements you can say. In a nutshell, so long as you don’t represent your opinions as those of the US Armed Forces and you don’t say them in an official capacity, you can actually say quite a bit before running afoul of the UCMJ and other regulations.

What this young man said would EASILY be allowable under curtain US regulations. There is no “code of silence”.

BTW, I served 26-years in the Marine Corps. I’m not guessing.

ok i trust you on this.
But would this be an honorable thing to say and would one be silenced or criticized by his officers?
And what part of this regulation does the Bradley Manning leak break(just for knowledge)?

Also Isreal is a different country with different regulations, so who knows if he has broken them..

carlinist said:
But would this be an honorable thing to say and would one be silenced or criticized by his officers?

Honorable? It’s a political opinion. Uniformed service members are allowed to express political opinions so long as they don’t represent those opinions as “official statements”. And no, he would not be criticized or silenced by his superior officers. In fact, if command did such a thing, then command would be in violation of clearly stated DoD policy and military law.

carlinist said:
And what part of this regulation does the Bradley Manning leak break(just for knowledge)?

Bradley Manning is accursed of violating a number of the punitive Articles of the UCMJ, not the least of which is Art. 106a, Espionage, and several violations of Art. 134 for violating US federal law. Manning, amongst other things, is accused of disseminating classified materials. His alleged crimes are so seriously regarded and unacceptable, that the government could choose to seek the death penalty.

Hey were are the articles about the three Muslims trying to kill people in the United States who were busted just recently?

Last week a Muslim was busted who was shooting at our bases.

This week there was two Muslim converts arrested for plotting to kill people by gunning them down. in Seattle.

So I guess the Prime Minister’s son was correct.

Latin2 said:
Hey were are the articles about the three Muslims trying to kill people in the United States who were busted just recently?

But making rayshist comments on Facebook is so much worse. His post might cause the Muslims to go ape and murder innocent people in some random country since he insulted their faith.

I can’t imagine what got into the boy.

One would think it had been his people who were tortured, starved, gassed and incinerated by the millions just a generation or two ago. Why he seems to think that their are actually Islamofascists in the world today who have vowed to give the world a real holocaust.

I do declare I just don’t understand the young people of today. In my time Jews just shut up and took what was coming to them.

Are you people who condemn him insane? If that’s not your excuse, what is it?

He should have said…”terror has a name…and it’s religion!!!”

lillyluminatus said:
As a proud American Jew who grew up listening to stories about the period of time when my grandfather’s family suddenly stopped receiving desperate letters from their Polish relatives, never to hear from them again, this makes me unbelievably sad.

My family knows all too well what happens when we begin painting an entire religion as the enemy. How utterly tragic.

Sad for Islam? or for the Jewish people… last I checked it was ONLY the Arab Muslim countries waging war against Israel.
Depends on who is doing the “painting” and it isn’t just religion, it is race and ideology. If not for Hitler and his relationship with the Muslim Mufti an entire generation of Jews would obviously still be living.

mlb said:
Sad for Islam? or for the Jewish people… last I checked it was ONLY the Arab Muslim countries waging war against Israel.
Depends on who is doing the “painting” and it isn’t just religion, it is race and ideology. If not for Hitler and his relationship with the Muslim Mufti an entire generation of Jews would obviously still be living.

Sad in general.

But surely you realize the same could be said about Pope Pius XII, right?

Republitarian said:
Honorable? It’s a political opinion. Uniformed service members are allowed to express political opinions so long as they don’t represent those opinions as “official statements”. And no, he would not be criticized or silenced by his superior officers. In fact, if command did such a thing, then command would be in violation of clearly stated DoD policy and military law.

Bradley Manning is accursed of violating a number of the punitive Articles of the UCMJ, not the least of which is Art. 106a, Espionage, and several violations of Art. 134 for violating US federal law. Manning, amongst other things, is accused of disseminating classified materials. His alleged crimes are so seriously regarded and unacceptable, that the government could choose to seek the death penalty.

thanks for that info.

lillyluminatus said:
Why don’t you just rightfully admonish the individuals who hold that belief, and avoid pissing off and alienating billions upon billions of people? If you haven’t noticed, we continue to provide Israel with massive defense assistance. You are arguing against a straw man that no one has proposed.

So you are saying the desire to kill Jews and wipe Israel off the map is NOT part of Islam? That’s its some sort of fictitious “straw man?” because jews and americans love to persecute muslims for no reason? Please.

With all due respect, get your head out of your ass. Its your denial of reality that is the real danger here- or is it just blatant anti-semitism on your part? Its getting real hard to tell the difference nowadays.

I stand by my previous comments:

BarneyFranken said:
Utter tragedy is when Israel is wiped off the map by islamic terrorists, and we did nothing about it because we didn’t want to look evil in the eye. Until Islam purges their MAINSTREAM of hate and calling for the destruction of the Jews, I don’t feel the least bit bad about painting an entire religion in their true light. Or how about this: compare the worst case scenarios for both sides, and then ask yourself: Which would I rather be wrong about? I think Id rather be wrong about wrongfully admonishing islam than being wrong by not taking seriously islam’s specifically stated desire to murder 20 million jews.

It’s apparent they don’t teach history in Israel.

BarneyFranken said:
So you are saying the desire to kill Jews and wipe Israel off the map is NOT part of Islam? That’s its some sort of fictitious “straw man?” because jews and americans love to persecute muslims for no reason? Please.

With all due respect, get your head out of your ass. Its your denial of reality that is the real danger here- or is it just blatant anti-semitism on your part? Its getting real hard to tell the difference nowadays.

I stand by my previous comments:

You’re an idiot.

Just my 2cents on this whole Israel vs Islam issue, but if Israel was blown up or wiped off the map wouldn’t a lot of Muslims die right along with them? It’s not like they’re hundreds of miles apart. The Palestines are like right next door. It just seems like this is a case of the Palestinians hating on the Jews mostly due to the success of the Jewish state. The heyday of Islam is long over. They just need move on and get over it.

hello,I heared that 7century.com have many cheap products. I always go there to buy, and tell my friend,they all said the http://www.7century.com is very very good shopping.lets go to shopping now.

Well, he’s right. Terror does have a religion, and its name is Islam…it also has some other presitigious titular honors such as Judaism and Christianity.

Bruce said:
You’re an idiot.

a feeble comeback from a feeble mind.

nasty hypocrite.

Like father like son, another Netanyahu that isn’t serious about peace.

What is the “religion” practiced by al Qaeda and other terrorist groups?

He is right, there never has been a Palistinian State, country, king, government, and no Palistinian ever existed because they are nothing but the trash from other countries. There’s no such thing as “Palestine”

“Palestine” is the name that the Romans gave to the land of Israel when they conquered this land 2000 years ago and Wikipedia explains (Israel) :

It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism’s most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Muslims conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.
And also the Greeks prior to the Romans:

Abba Eban wrote in his book ‘My nation – The history of the nation of Israel’ in page 64 that the Greek historian Herodotos used the name ‘Palestina’, that is ‘Pleshet’, for the first time as a complete name for all the land of Israel while in the past it referred only to the populated areas of the Philistines themselves.

Abba Eban added that the Philistines, who settled down in the shore area, were the first ones with whom the Greek invaders encountered thus the Greeks called all the land in the name of the Philistines.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” nation.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” state.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” kingdom.

There were never in the history of the world “Palestinian” kings.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” capital.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” essence.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” heritage.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” culture.

The “Palestinians” are ARABS who were brought to the region by the Ottoman empire as part of the Muslim occupation in the region and later on also by the British who entered masses of Arabs from the surroundings while closing Israel to its genuine owners. Arabs from countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen emigrated to Israel in the beginning of the 20th century to look for employment (due to the development of this land by the Judean inhabitants) while pretending to be living in Israel “for thousands of years…” These Arabs are definitely not the tribes from Crete who settled down in the 5 cities of Gaza strip after the Exodus of Israel from Egypt. These tribes were called Philistines and they weren’t Arabs at all and the nowadays “Palestinians” are definitely not their descendants. The Philistines don’t exist as a nation nowadays.

There’s no “Palestinian” nation but an ARAB one which went out of the Arabian Peninsula and occupied dozens of lands, including the land of Israel.

According to the Israeli Wikipedia the Arabs who were living in the land of Israel started to call themselves “Palestinians” only after the establishment of Israel in 1948 and prior to it they called themselves just ‘Arabs’ and this is how they called their organizations (‘Arab Higher Committee’) and their struggles (‘The Great Arab Revolt’) and nicknamed the land of Israel in different names such as ‘Southern Syria’.

Zuheir Mohsen is widely known for having made the following statement in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
There was an Israeli state in the land of Israel 2000 years before the prophet of Islam dreamt that he’s flying on a “magical horse” from Mecca to Jerusalem.

There was an Israeli nation in the land of Israel.

There was an Israeli kingdom in the land of Israel.

There were Israeli kings in the Israeli kingdom of Israel.

There was an Israeli capital in the kingdom of Israel.

There was and there is an Israeli essence.

There was and there is an Israeli heritage.

There was and there is an Israeli culture.

Israel isn’t just a name of a state. It’s first and for all a name of a nation (Am Yisrael). Israel is the name of the father of the nation (Jacob) and Israelis are his descendants. The real meaning of the word ‘Israeli’ is someone who belongs to the nation of Israel and not only “a citizen of a state called Israel”. The word ‘Israeli’ (Yisraeli) is mentioned in the Torah and we use it in Hebrew till this day. Yisraelim in plural.

Don’t say “Jews”, say Judeans. Yehudi in Hebrew is Judean in English, not “Jew”. “Jews” is a mockery word for Judeans. The word ‘Judeans’ was invented by gentiles. When the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans conquered the land of Israel they called all the Israelis in the name ‘Judeans’ because at those days the tribe of Judah was the biggest and the dominant tribe which survived the exile of Assyria in which 10 tribes of Israel were exiled. The tribe of Judah lived in the Judean desert thus the gentiles who occupied the land of Israel called the members of this tribe (and also the ones of Benjamin and Levi who joined it) in the name ‘Judeans’.

When Israelis (Judeans) who live abroad go to synagogue they don’t read about Judeans and not about “Jews” in the prayer books nor in the Torah but about ‘The Nation of Israel’, ‘The Children of Israel’, ‘The House of Israel’, ‘Israeli’, ‘Shema Yisrael’, etc. They are Israelis because they belong to the nation of Israel even if they aren’t citizens of a state called Israel. Both of the words ‘Judeans’ and ‘Israelis’ refer to nationality, to ethnic identity and not to religion. Judeans are members of the tribe of Judah and not “people who believe in Judaism”. And the nation isn’t called Judah but Israel, and so does the land and in the future the 10 tribes will return to this nation.

Israelity (“Judaism”) isn’t a “religion” but a historical national covenant between G-d and the Israelis.

That’s why Arab citizens of Israel don’t define themselves as Israelis but as Arab/”Palestinian” citizens of a state CALLED Israel. They aren’t members of the Israeli nation but of the Ishmaelite nation. Ishmael used to shoot arrows at Isaac (father of Israel) while saying: “I’m only playing…” That’s why there’s no “Israeli-Palestinian conflict” but a WAR that the Ishmaelites/Arabs opened on the Israelis. Also Muhammad murdered Israelis in Saudi Arabia who refused to accept his murderous pagan dream.

That’s why we should say: End the Arab occupation in the land of Israel!

Couple of facts that the haters of Israel don’t like:

Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves “Palestinians” in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948.

After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Israelis ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

The only Arab rule following conquest in 633 B.C. lasted just 22 years.

For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Israeli capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur’an.

King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

Israelis pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Israeli presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

Virtually the entire Israeli population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Israelis were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War 2, they are the only group to have never integrated with their co-religionists. Most of the Israeli refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey, USA.

There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting “Palestine”. There is only one Israeli state.

Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel.

During the Jordanian occupation, Israeli holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Israelis. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Israeli cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Israelis from accessing the temple mount and western wall.

Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

One phrase sums it all up
If Hamas layed down there arms …There would be peace
If Israel layed down there arms…There would be NO Israel

Something has to give, folks. The demographics of that region are shifting.

If Israel doesn’t work for a two state solution now, eventually the Jewish government will be democratically voted out of office.

Israel is between a rock and a hard place and they aren’t helping themselves by footdragging the peace process.

All this nonsense in the Middle East is over religion. Pretty awesome, huh?.

All the killing so they can fight over some desert land where something may have happened a few thousand years ago.

MBW said:
All this nonsense in the Middle East is over religion

No, not exactly. But, point taken, and, I agree. But, there is cultural resentment exhibited by the Arabs that just can’t be attributed to Religion.

A resentment of perception, as if the Arab’s believe they are not capable of turning the desert into a blooming, thriving nation. That the Jews can and have done such which the Arab/Palestinian looks at every day from across no-mans land.

It looks like simple envy, when, in fact, is not simply “why can’t I have that,” rather, is “why can’t I create that” like the Jews did? They have been successful, hence, I hate them and will kill them…

billwhit1357 said:
He is right, there never has been a Palistinian State, country, king, government, and no Palistinian ever existed because they are nothing but the trash from other countries. There’s no such thing as “Palestine”

“Palestine” is the name that the Romans gave to the land of Israel when they conquered this land 2000 years ago and Wikipedia explains (Israel) :

It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism’s most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Muslims conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.
And also the Greeks prior to the Romans:

Abba Eban wrote in his book ‘My nation – The history of the nation of Israel’ in page 64 that the Greek historian Herodotos used the name ‘Palestina’, that is ‘Pleshet’, for the first time as a complete name for all the land of Israel while in the past it referred only to the populated areas of the Philistines themselves.

Abba Eban added that the Philistines, who settled down in the shore area, were the first ones with whom the Greek invaders encountered thus the Greeks called all the land in the name of the Philistines.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” nation.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” state.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” kingdom.

There were never in the history of the world “Palestinian” kings.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” capital.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” essence.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” heritage.

There was never in the history of the world a “Palestinian” culture.

The “Palestinians” are ARABS who were brought to the region by the Ottoman empire as part of the Muslim occupation in the region and later on also by the British who entered masses of Arabs from the surroundings while closing Israel to its genuine owners. Arabs from countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen emigrated to Israel in the beginning of the 20th century to look for employment (due to the development of this land by the Judean inhabitants) while pretending to be living in Israel “for thousands of years…” These Arabs are definitely not the tribes from Crete who settled down in the 5 cities of Gaza strip after the Exodus of Israel from Egypt. These tribes were called Philistines and they weren’t Arabs at all and the nowadays “Palestinians” are definitely not their descendants. The Philistines don’t exist as a nation nowadays.

There’s no “Palestinian” nation but an ARAB one which went out of the Arabian Peninsula and occupied dozens of lands, including the land of Israel.

According to the Israeli Wikipedia the Arabs who were living in the land of Israel started to call themselves “Palestinians” only after the establishment of Israel in 1948 and prior to it they called themselves just ‘Arabs’ and this is how they called their organizations (‘Arab Higher Committee’) and their struggles (‘The Great Arab Revolt’) and nicknamed the land of Israel in different names such as ‘Southern Syria’.

Zuheir Mohsen is widely known for having made the following statement in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
There was an Israeli state in the land of Israel 2000 years before the prophet of Islam dreamt that he’s flying on a “magical horse” from Mecca to Jerusalem.

There was an Israeli nation in the land of Israel.

There was an Israeli kingdom in the land of Israel.

There were Israeli kings in the Israeli kingdom of Israel.

There was an Israeli capital in the kingdom of Israel.

There was and there is an Israeli essence.

There was and there is an Israeli heritage.

There was and there is an Israeli culture.

Israel isn’t just a name of a state. It’s first and for all a name of a nation (Am Yisrael). Israel is the name of the father of the nation (Jacob) and Israelis are his descendants. The real meaning of the word ‘Israeli’ is someone who belongs to the nation of Israel and not only “a citizen of a state called Israel”. The word ‘Israeli’ (Yisraeli) is mentioned in the Torah and we use it in Hebrew till this day. Yisraelim in plural.

Don’t say “Jews”, say Judeans. Yehudi in Hebrew is Judean in English, not “Jew”. “Jews” is a mockery word for Judeans. The word ‘Judeans’ was invented by gentiles. When the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans conquered the land of Israel they called all the Israelis in the name ‘Judeans’ because at those days the tribe of Judah was the biggest and the dominant tribe which survived the exile of Assyria in which 10 tribes of Israel were exiled. The tribe of Judah lived in the Judean desert thus the gentiles who occupied the land of Israel called the members of this tribe (and also the ones of Benjamin and Levi who joined it) in the name ‘Judeans’.

When Israelis (Judeans) who live abroad go to synagogue they don’t read about Judeans and not about “Jews” in the prayer books nor in the Torah but about ‘The Nation of Israel’, ‘The Children of Israel’, ‘The House of Israel’, ‘Israeli’, ‘Shema Yisrael’, etc. They are Israelis because they belong to the nation of Israel even if they aren’t citizens of a state called Israel. Both of the words ‘Judeans’ and ‘Israelis’ refer to nationality, to ethnic identity and not to religion. Judeans are members of the tribe of Judah and not “people who believe in Judaism”. And the nation isn’t called Judah but Israel, and so does the land and in the future the 10 tribes will return to this nation.

Israelity (“Judaism”) isn’t a “religion” but a historical national covenant between G-d and the Israelis.

That’s why Arab citizens of Israel don’t define themselves as Israelis but as Arab/”Palestinian” citizens of a state CALLED Israel. They aren’t members of the Israeli nation but of the Ishmaelite nation. Ishmael used to shoot arrows at Isaac (father of Israel) while saying: “I’m only playing…” That’s why there’s no “Israeli-Palestinian conflict” but a WAR that the Ishmaelites/Arabs opened on the Israelis. Also Muhammad murdered Israelis in Saudi Arabia who refused to accept his murderous pagan dream.

That’s why we should say: End the Arab occupation in the land of Israel!

Couple of facts that the haters of Israel don’t like:

Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves “Palestinians” in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948.

After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Israelis ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

The only Arab rule following conquest in 633 B.C. lasted just 22 years.

For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Israeli capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur’an.

King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

Israelis pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Israeli presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

Virtually the entire Israeli population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Israelis were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War 2, they are the only group to have never integrated with their co-religionists. Most of the Israeli refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey, USA.

There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting “Palestine”. There is only one Israeli state.

Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel.

During the Jordanian occupation, Israeli holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Israelis. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Israeli cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Israelis from accessing the temple mount and western wall.

Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

So…when does Jesus return?

purveyor said:
No, not exactly. But, point taken, and, I agree. But, there is cultural resentment exhibited by the Arabs that just can’t be attributed to Religion.

A resentment of perception, as if the Arab’s believe they are not capable of turning the desert into a blooming, thriving nation. That the Jews can and have done such which the Arab/Palestinian looks at every day from across no-mans land.

It looks like simple envy, when, in fact, is not simply “why can’t I have that,” rather, is “why can’t I create that” like the Jews did? They have been successful, hence, I hate them and will kill them…

Actually it’s cultural resentment because of their religion. Don’t forget, it’s religion that has shaped these cultures.

BarneyFranken said:
So you are saying the desire to kill Jews and wipe Israel off the map is NOT part of Islam? That’s its some sort of fictitious “straw man?” because jews and americans love to persecute muslims for no reason? Please.

With all due respect, get your head out of your ass. Its your denial of reality that is the real danger here- or is it just blatant anti-semitism on your part? Its getting real hard to tell the difference nowadays.

I stand by my previous comments:

You’ve caught me. I am an anti-Semitic Jew.

Someone surely needs to get his head out of his ass around here, but it isn’t me. Jackass.

lillyluminatus said:
Sad in general.

But surely you realize the same could be said about Pope Pius XII, right?

I agree to a point. I think the Catholic church throughout Europe had/has much to answer for the acts, of shall we say ‘preservation’. The only difference is that the Pope did not call for the extermination of the Jewish people. If he would have spoken out or took a more aggressive approach for the treatment of Jews early in Hitlers reign, (even prior to the war) I think the world would have been more interested in Hitler and his agenda. As a spokes person/authority for millions of Catholics worldwide, his influence was undeniable. That he choose to use in a limited way doesn’t make him less of an accomplice.

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Conversely:

Islam has a method

and it is terror.

<—– when the truth is told, it will sound like this.

("Hey, Raheem, I think I saw your wife out of your house alone the other day. Shall I bear witness against her, or is she still useful to you ?") Hey Islam, what you call a "religion", we call terror.

MBW said:
All this nonsense in the Middle East is over religion. Pretty awesome, huh?. All the killing so they can fight over some desert land where something may have happened a few thousand years ago.

all of the middle east is rooted in some sort of centuries old insanity. i will never understand it.

billwhit1357 said:
There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting “Palestine”. There is only one Israeli state

And if those states were secular.. none of this religious wars would happen.

Therefore going back to my old point.

Only two reasons why wars occur these days
1) nationalism
2) religion

However it might be a while before… Muslims get out of that hyper-conservative view point. Israel seems pretty liberal to me even though it is a Jewish state(hence no separation of religion and state) when it comes to liberal issues. considering gay couples have lot of rights. In Israel, although residents of that country can’t marry(since only religious authorities are allowed to give marriage licenses, and all of them don’t allow same sex marriages), the marriage of gay couples from elsewhere is recognized and they receive same benefits as opposite sex couples.

In Saudi Arabia, I could be hanged for being gay.

According to Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz, Yair wrote the above comments earlier this year in the wake of an attack on a West Bank settlement that resulted in the stabbing deaths of five Israelis.

Yes, the stabbing deaths of five Israelis. Udi Fogel, his wife Ruth, their 11 year old son Yoav, their 4 year old son Elad and their 3 month old daughter Hadas.

The perpetrators first broke into a house of the Chai family who were on vacation, searching all the rooms.[13] They stole an M-16 assault rifle, ammunition, a helmet, and a kevlar vest. They waited an hour and entered the Fogels’ house at around 10:30 p.m. Amjad and Hakim said that they noticed there were children inside, but were undeterred, and entered anyway. They killed the two young boys immediately after breaking in. The four-year old was stabbed twice in the chest while being strangled, and the eleven year-old had his throat slit and was nearly decapitated. The attackers did not harm two other children asleep in the house at the time. In their confessions, the suspects said that they had not noticed them, and that they would not have hesitated to kill them if they had.

Yep, that’s five stabbed to death Israelis, alright. Young Mr. Netanyahu knows of what he speaks.

We love death more than you love life!

Yep. Spot on, Yair. Nailed it.

Benjamin Netanyahu’s Son Complains On Facebook: ‘Terror Has A Religion And It Is Islam’

I KNOW that Benjamin is hugely proud of his son.

lillyluminatus said:
You’ve caught me. I am an anti-Semitic Jew.

Someone surely needs to get his head out of his ass around here, but it isn’t me. Jackass.

I stepped out for a day or two and look what I find? LOL LILLY the professed Lawyer/Astronaut/Race Car Driver, being her usual articulate self, attempting to persuade all within earshot of the merits of her position. Ouch!

Anyway, PABLO, X3, CARLINIST, JUSTANOTHER et.al. making cogent and challenging Posts.

For just the briefest of moments, all is well…

RowdyHoward said:
Actually it’s cultural resentment because of their religion. Don’t forget, it’s religion that has shaped these cultures.

ROWDY,

Point taken.

We are on the same page, so to speak.

It is just that I find the “Religious” reason has become too easy, to simple. Effectively, I have asserted that if Religion is removed from the excuse pool. There is another facet of misanthropy holding the Arab/Palestinian back.

Effectively, I don’t believe they want a solution as they are having fun, fightin and killin. Take that away, and you remove their meaning of life.

Purveyor

actually jews were a byproduct of some drunk,hence it is in their blood