Gary Johnson > Ron Paul.

Aren’t Karl Rove and Dick Cheney the same guy with different aliases? I want to see them on stage together to prove it’s not the same guy. Here’s proof. They’re both Bush men. Both war mongers. Both balding. Both morons.

Ron Paul did not just buy $2 million in TV and radio air time in Iowa and New Hampshire to talk to his base.  

Paul’s base uses the internet, at no expense to the campaign, for the purpose of strengthening his “ground game”.

hardly, hence their respective positions, funding, etc.

Who is Humpty Dumpty talking to, the Bush base? Grab your shoe-shine kit, Karl, and hitch a ride back to Texas.

criminal Neocons
demand a Puppet President
who will protect them from prosecution

Legit question what is ron paul doing in the race. As in does he think he can win? I’m not trying to troll him, hes a very important intellectual, he might be able to serve society doing something else.

Ron Paul just won the Ohio State Straw poll by 53%. That’s more votes than all the other candidates combined! I think Mr. Rove underestimates Dr. Paul’s Base.

Rove and Cheney may be called a lot of things but morons they are not.

Paul’s people are out beating the pavement regularly bringing more and more people on board.  There was a group of Ron Paul people who paid a visit to the Wall Street Protesters in Charlotte today for which they received a nice welcome.  This group of OWS people have settled on one statement for their purpose of protesting and that is “Get Wall Street Out Of Our House In Wshington” and that message resonates with Everyone so, these OWS people are pulling it together and they all seemed to like Ron Paul’s stances on many issues.

Don’t count Ron Paul out just becuase he isn’t running with a game plan of the past.  These are new times with new approaches to reaching the people.  The MSM is not going to chose the candiate this time around.  If, they are successful at doing so, then Obama will get another 4 years.  Which, considering Obama is bought and paid for by corporatist, the MSM will not have to worry about the changes Ron Paul would make to dismantle the lobbiest and remove the money from politics.  People know that the MSM do not want to have their cash cows slaughtered by Ron Paul so, they will do everthing they can to keep Ron Paul in check.

Paul’s people are out beating the pavement regularly bringing more and more people on board.  There was a group of Ron Paul people who paid a visit to the Wall Street Protesters in Charlotte today for which they received a nice welcome.  This group of OWS people have settled on one statement for their purpose of protesting and that is “Get Wall Street Out Of Our House In Wshington” and that message resonates with Everyone so, these OWS people are pulling it together and they all seemed to like Ron Paul’s stances on many issues.

Don’t count Ron Paul out just becuase he isn’t running with a game plan of the past.  These are new times with new approaches to reaching the people.  The MSM is not going to chose the candiate this time around.  If, they are successful at doing so, then Obama will get another 4 years.  Which, considering Obama is bought and paid for by corporatist, the MSM will not have to worry about the changes Ron Paul would make to dismantle the lobbiest and remove the money from politics.  People know that the MSM do not want to have their cash cows slaughtered by Ron Paul so, they will do everthing they can to keep Ron Paul in check.

I think the tea party would be wise to jump on this movement.  A lot people are making this group out to be something they’re not.  I told them that I was a Tea Party Patriot and they didn’t care, but people have the right to choose what group they want to belong to.

Could someone edit this trash before they print it? It’s damn near impossible to read.

Actually– Karls assessment is correct, the PAUL campaign constantly tries to sell him on tweaking his message in order to appeal to the impatient or less astute voters out there–

Unfortunately, there is a disadvantage in 30 years of saying the same thing–

It tends to be easier to stay with the topic– rather than covey ideas in simplistic terms–

I have some personal insight to this and the frustration that his staff has over trying to fine tune his message for the spotlight–

My fear is, if the media did give him equal coverage– he wouldnt convey the ideas properly for everyone’s clarity — Much like CAIN does now when he doesn’t oversimplify–

Yes, he only has to compromise every position he held the last few decades consistently…just so he can win. Dr Ron Paul is the only choice. He never compromised his beliefs to win anything. So American voters can go ahead and choose whatever war criminal flavor they like and seal their fate. This liberal democrat will register as a republican to vote for peace, freddom and sound money.

If Ron Paul really cared about affecting the political process, he’d run as an independent. He has about as much chance to win the Republican primary as someone who believes in responsible government.

If Ron Paul really cared about affecting the political process, he’d run as an independent. He has about as much chance to win the Republican primary as someone who believes in responsible government.

Ron changed much by being in the race last time around–

Every one MUPPETS his ideas now— Maybe this time,, he will get them to walk the walk- at least to a few of the talking points-

Paul will never expand his base as long as his followers are the most annoying asses on the internet.

They think they are “getting the word out” but all they are doing is alienating people in every topic, in every thread, on every site, everywhere.

Worse than Palin groupies.
 

Those things are, of course, always representative of the quality of a candidate.

Interesting. A while back Rove said Paul had zero chance and even laughed about it. Now he’s saying things like: ‘Well, If he’s going to win.’ Hm-mm. Things are a changing eh?

I don’t think the base is being underestimated, Mr. Paul is overestimating his ability to sell himself to the general public. 

I think straw polls underestimate the # of people who don’t vote in straw polls.

Karl Rove is right, and I hate Karl Rove.

Paul has as much chance as Biden and Biden isn’t running.

Rove is suggesting Paul be more like Romney, whose “message” resonates everywhere because he keeps changing it to suit the purpose. Crafty.
Rove thinks Paul should emulate Rick Perry, whose “message” reaches everyone because of how utterly irresponsible and shockingly incompetent it is.
Finally, Rove would prefer Paul have more of a Cain-type “message” that attracts the masses, that is, a plundering of the citizenry disguised in “simple and efficient” tax packaging.
All in all, Rove feels that if Paul doesn’t pursue a message of ongoing bankster greed and criminal governship like the other candidates do, his campaign won’t reach the mainstream.
What Rove deosn’t get, I suspect, is that mainstream isn’t as mainstream as it once was, and secret “scientific polls” taken behind closed doors that allude to these candidates’ supposed “frontrunnership” only carry so much weight for so long before the absolute transparency of Paul’s crushing victories in public straw polls and online polls, where ACTUAL votes are tabulated reaches that “broad base” Rove is talking about…
(rolls eyes)

Obama without a teleprompter has as much chance as Biden…

I think Dr. Paul has his message nailed out to T after 30 years of questioning.  He probably knows what he believes! Just saying!

They can always change, but he is winning them all over the nation.  The media thinks that means nothing and it may not.  However, when Herman Cain won first place in the Florida Straw poll they praised it as if he had won the race.  Ron Paul has won lots of straw polls yet they don’t even bother to give them same meaning to it when someone else wins one

I think that is one in the same.

Kind of like you are doing right now.

Much as I would prefer Johnson as President, Paul has a better chance of winning the Republican nomination, and I’d rather have someone I agree with 95% of the time who can win than someone I agree with 98% of the time who can’t. But, if Paul loses the nomination, I hope it’s Johnson who runs third party.

There are a couple of reasons for this.  Paul supporters are beyond frustrated at the media’s lack of coverage and negative spin on what little coverage they give to Paul, which the media push on people ad nauseum.  From day 1, out of the starting gate, their mantra has been “he can’t win” and it’s nonsense.  Unless people are willing to allow the media to do their thinking for them.  Another phenomenon is the huge support Ron Paul has from young people.  Once you hear and understand Ron Paul’s message, positions and plan (hint:  you won’t find it in mainstream media), it becomes clear that he really IS our only hope for our country.  Young people can get a little overzealous once they come to see this clearly. 

Why not check him out for yourself?  There are some great speeches on youtube and you can learn more at http://www.RonPaul2012.com.  You might come away nearly as enthusiastic about Ron Paul as his most ardent supporters. 

He tried a third party run and came to realize that third party runs are not yet viable in our country. 

But you might find this comparison of Ron Paul and Ronald Reagan interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=Z79T2veZy0Q&NR=1

Welcome to the Blue Republican movement. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul_presidential_campaign%2c_2012#.22Blue_Republican.22_movement

The problem with Paul’s message is that many Americans on both sides of the aisle think at least half of it makes sense. The other half sounds absolutely terrible, especially when you get into the details about what he wants. It comes down to a blind, fundamentalist belief that the “Free Market” is a magical principle of life that always chooses what’s best for society. It’s re-hashed Social Darwinism, which has been discredited again and again by history. For example, England in the late 19th century was much more “free market” and libertarian than the U.S., but was by no means a better place to live than the America of today, with its social safety nets and market regulation. Paul completely ignores that, and keeps promising a new government-free utopia. If he wants to appeal to more voters, he’d half to amend his platform, which he’ll never do. 

Ron Paul is in it to WIN it and would be the best thing to happen in this country in quite a while. 

I agree. I’m not a Paul fan but he has, in some sense, pushed the Republican agenda this time around because all of the far right is basically following his cue on economics but not on foreign policy. 

The straw polls really don’t mean much because they are limited to a very small number of hardcore Republicans, many of whom are involved in politics as either donors or otherwise, and because Paul is known for helping to organize his very fervent followers get bussed into the polls. That sort of enthusiasm may sound great, but the truth is it’s just an animated following that is everywhere a minority. Even in Texas, I can’t think of a single city I’ve been to (even Austin) where I feel like the majority of Republicans would vote for Paul. I don’t like Rove (or Paul that much) but he has a point here. 

Never thought I would agree with you on anything. 

 As much as it turns my stomach, Mr. Rove is correct.  None of this will mean anything if Dr. Paul cannot get the undecided voter to vote for him.  He is consistent, honest and doesn’t pander or tack according to the wind, but he is still painted with the crazy outsider image.  Dr. Paul HAS to win or take 2nd in the early primaries.  That will, of course, turn the attack machine his way, but if he stays himself (and I see no way he wouldn’t), he can be the last man standing.  Then it is a matter of showing how tough love is best.  He needs to be able to better answer the gotcha questions about healthcare and race.  We all know his views, but the media will twist his words any way they can.

They are morons.  Morons who waste their intelligence and abilities on murder, theft and the destruction of what our nation stands for.  They are the biggest morons our country has ever seen and we are all worse off for their existence.

I accidently “liked” your comment when i actually do not. I will temporarily try to suppress my blood curdling rage at Pon Raul to reply to your comment. I do not want to tar you with a brush just because of who you support, but your candidate has run for the Repub nomination 3 or 4 times now, and once on the Libertarian ticket. Despite this being a “Tea Party” ear he has a rock hard ceiling of support and is only 4 or 5th in the polls. He is also has a history of stuffing the ballot box and paying supporters to flood straw polls.That is why his “wins” are not taken seriously. Lastly, he has a history of making absolutely lunatic comments regarding foreign and sometimes domestic policy, perhaps to pander to progressives, perhaps because he’s a lunatic. 80-90% of the Republican party are hawkish on defense (not always Neo-cons but Jacksonian Hawks), and he comes across as someone who doesn’t really like his country, ala code pink or ANSWER coalition.

Okay, but just sticking to the topic at hand, like him or not, old Turdblossom calls this one bang on.

You’ve mixed up morons with criminals. Cheney and Rove are unindicted criminals. Morons are those who voted for the guy they “served”.

No, he’s bang on. “Talking to people outside his bases” means talking to reach compromises. RoPaul is all about NOT compromising, which is why his support base is so limited, loyal though it is. Rove is really saying RoPaul’s very nature limits his growth potential. That’s clearly so: if not even a plurality of Republicans are prepared to support him in the nomination process, it’s pure fantastical delusion to think he could ever win the general; he’s more of a crank than Ross Perot, who also had a lot of useful interesting observations on the 0.5% of the universe within his sights. 

Anyway, it’s irrelevant, which is why Rove wrapped it up pretty quickly and sounds so sage on this topic: he has no dog in the fight over to RoPaul or not to RoPaul, so he expends exactly no more energy on it than necessary. The only contingency under which a RoPaul supporter might ever be important at the nomination stage is if the GOP gets to Miami with a so-called “wide open convention”, which hasn’t happened since Goldwater. If that starts to look likely (and given how many in the GOP bases absolutely despise Romney, it might), then Rove will be a lot more expansive, because he will want it off Paultards for his own dog, or work Paultards into a frenzy of loyalty to the death to manipulate a win for his dog, the latter being easier to do.

One key reason Paultards are so loyal, and RoPaul so unable to grow his support, is because he is the single most consistent anti-black anti-hispanic racist in the group. Take a look at RoPaul’s newsletter; it might as well be co-edited by exiled Austro-Hungarian imperalist economists and the KKK. Actually, come to think of it, that actually might be true.

I am a huge fan of the Doctor Paul, but I got to say Karl has a point here. His current string of ads are doing a fantastic job of bringing up the points that have broad appeal. I think that fellow members of the liberty movement need to help the doctor out on this point as well, and push the points of his policy in a way that is easily digestible.

It depends how you define winning. Do you think Obama won when he got elected, turning into a war monger and teleprompter?  I would argue that Dr Ron Paul won already. His message reverberates across the world and the US only has itself to blame if they don’t take this opportunity to end the illegal wars, assassinating US citizens, banish the patriot act and return to the rule of law.

Well I don’t know who you think is going to win the nomination. Cain’s flip flopping former-fed bankster ass isn’t fooling no one. Parry’s done. Romney’s a former democrat, that created Obama care annnddddd… HE’S MORMON. That’s right I said it. The evangelists will never vote for him. Who’s left?

And anybody who would even suggest that Ron Paul’s stance on anything could be considered pandering is a lunatic. This is his 3rd run now, once in the 80′s and once last term so you’re wrong there. 

Finally, the problem with this country and both parties is that there’s people like you out there that try to say anyone who wants us out of these wars “doesn’t like America.” What about the tens of thousands of women and children that have been killed in the middle east as a result of “nation building.” I’m sure you don’t care about them cause they’re not American. So lets just keep killing all of their sons, daughters, mothers, sisters, brothers, cousins, etc. and eventually they’ll get over it and stop hating the USA.

Good point, so foregive me running with it a bit: Cain is now undergoing the media glare that Romney already had, Perry got, Bachmann got, and Gingrich could never bear again, for obvious reasons. No such media glare for RoPaul unless and until he threatens to win, which means no such media glare ever – which is too bad, because RoPaul is the easiest orchid in the hothouse to take down. It’s simple editorial math: you have X number of supporters for Y number of candidates, and right off the bat you can cut out having to worry about covering Paul. This gets easier when you recognize two more relevant facts about Paul: his comments are a lot more predictable than is apparent when said in this group (all you have to do is look at his newsletters: decades of consistent Fed bashing, gold-buggery, anti-war & other unfashionable hum-buggery, and rock solid pink racism), so if you miss covering him for a few weeks, you can easily pick up the trail; and if you as an editor for some stupid reason decided to go after him when there’s no reason, his base would descend like locusts on your paper’s website and try to tear your heart out and eat it. If it ever comes to it, it will be a nation-wide investigation; no one paper will ever want to be held singlely responsible, because of the awful price it’ll have to pay.

But it’s all irrelevant. RoPaul has a floor and a ceiling and there’s Min Headroom in between.

No, thanks. We don’t want him, and he would not be welcomed. Burned too many bridges here. Stay on the O’van Susteren show, Turd Blossom. It must seem like home by now.

You can “unlike” it. If the “like” button is dimmed as reads “loked”, just click again.

Yes sir.

Yeah I’m sure you’re over 40 because you don’t realize that your precious brainwashing media outlets are GOING DOWN. Newspapers are already becoming obsolete, everybody knows the TV stations are bias and unreliable. The only place to get unbiased news is online, and verifying it is as easy as searching it on google. No bullshit anymore. Don’t be scared, it’s only change.

But the main reason is last year’s fruitcake brough out of the freezer and thawed and served on cracked plate.

It took that many words for you to say absolutely nothing.

Yeah but WHAT else. He’s a crank gadfly. He could replace Limbaugh, but Rush doesn’t want that nor do his fans. RoPaul is right where he wants to be. This is quite a common phenomenon in politics; go down to watch your local city council or planning commission or zoning board: every single one of those has its very own RoPaul who’s been on it for decades acting the gadfly, superficially sane because he knows so many actual details & is able to pretend to be prescient when in reality he’s cherry-picking from history, but actually a serious nutbar you wouldn’t trust with running the office photocopy machine.

People may be impressed that he’s a medical doctor, but the ranks of medical doctors are swelled with such know-it-all megalomaniacs. It’s not really too far from trusting the automatic transmission specialist at your local car service outfit to be a whiz bang at international diplomatic relations or fund management or large social program administration or policing, to wit, all the stuff that president’s do, simply because he’s so dang good at keeping your transmission going.

This article really makes me laugh because of the obvious, yet gradual, adoption of his positions by the other candidates, and the party as a whole. All of a sudden everyone’s for an audit of the fed. Last election it was even discussed. Now everyone thinks ending the wars might be a good idea. They laughed at him last election for that position. Keep doing what you’ve been doing for 30 years Dr. Paul, it’s working and your base is growing. You’ve got ‘em scared now!! 

B_F_D:  We have all endured your comments, you definitely know a lot about being an annoying ass.

“broaden their base”  =  ”look beyond the disgruntled white guy”

Hilarious! Absolutely HILARIOUS!

Of course gNOpiggie Rabbies would have someone with a wingnut bent rather than the re-election of President Obama, so Rabbies is asking Ron Paul to “reach” and kiss ol’ good gNOpig DC arse so THEY will take the massage to Fux and AM hate radio.

This is just what mAnn said a few days ago about Mittens “you have to work with what you have”

Add Krappshamsters dissing bro Cain as some “incoherent” moron.

gNOpig clowns, I hate to break it to you. YOU HAVE NOTHING!

I agree that he had some effects last time, but not so much this time, except to show how willfully ignorant the other candidates are at things like, oh, actual history (Raising Iran-Contra is classic RoPaul; I sure hope he goes next to all that pointless mayhem Ronnie caused in Nicarauga and Guatamala.).

The (slightly) interesting thing here is WHY RoPaul is bound to be less effective this go round. Part of it surely has to do with him being a stopped clock, never adjusted his Mises Foundation precepts to cover emergent reality. But I actually think the problem is that others are driving the ‘reform’ wagon, notably Cain with his 9-9-9 and now onto Perry with Steve Forbes’ Flat Tax Redux. RoPaul kinda sorta has a plan, but it’s basically indistinguishable from nihilism, at least to the average voter; and he gets nowhere with the GOP crowd wanting to take the U.S. military out of the war biz. 

Ron Paul has run for presidential nomination as a Republican only once before, and as a Libertarian once.  Reagan ran three times before being elected.  The numbers supporting Ron Paul grow daily, as people learn more about his record, what he stands for, his consistency, and what he proposes.  He has never stuffed a ballot box nor paid supporters.  Quite the opposite.  His supporters are THAT dedicated.  Many would walk across broken glass for him. 

Those policies are neither lunatic nor pandering.  They are Ron Paul’s sincere beliefs and they are overwhelmingly supported by our troops, who I believe have a good understanding of what’s at stake, what’s going on and what our involvement should be.  Ron Paul loves our country; anyone who knows anything about him recognizes that. 

I’m sorry you didn’t like my comment.  I would ask that you take a little time to look into Ron Paul’s positions and why he supports them.  http://www.RonPaul2012.com  Twice I was put off by positions I heard he held.  Both times I researched them, seeking his own words, and both times I found he was spot on.   We cannot afford to continue to be hawkish on intervention.  Ron Paul proposes a strong defense but relinquishing our unsustainable role in policing other countries and interfering in their civil wars. 

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Ron-Paul-Military-Donations.jpg
http://www.ronpaul.com/images/ronpaul-military2.gif

this guy is out of it! Ron Paul appeals to so many because he speaks truth! many of the OWS like him, hes the father of the tea party and Nov 2010 shoud have taught this asshole a thing or two about the US electorate! He just wants the lds/romney as president! WHAT A FU#KIN PHONY!

I’m sorry, Lulu, but i don’t think that Dr. paul’s message reverberates yet throughout anyone but his loyal follwers, which would be Karl Rove’s point. If Dr. Paul does not win the nomination, then his message will be buried by the media and neocons. It will be up to Rand Paul and the rest of us to keep it alive.

Ron’s people don’t stuff the ballot boxes and he definitely doesn’t pay people to get there like Romney buses people in. Ron’s people are just energized about his message where everyone else is just not that excited about their candidates as the Ron paul supporters are. I have video evidence of Romney people voting multiple times in straw polls.

Ron Paul has worked, negotiated and compromised with political opponents to effect legislation.  Enough Democrats support him and plan to register Republican just to vote for him in the primary, that the movement was even given a name – Blue Republican movement, you can read about it on wiki. 

Ron Paul is not anti-black or anti-hispanic at all.  One of his reasons for ending the failed war on drugs is that the poor and minorities are disproportionately by it and incarcerated due to it.  Yes, there was a bigot who wrote some articles without Paul’s knowledge in a political newsletter sponsored by Ron Paul over 15 years ago.  The bigot was fired.  This was all thoroughly explored four years ago and put to rest.  They were not Ron Paul’s opinions and he repudiated them.  Even the head of the NAACP spoke out to defend Paul against the ridiculous accusations. 

Nor should he.  Who do you think writes today’s legislation regulating markets?  Wall Street writes legislation regulating stocks and bonds.  Insurers write insurance regulating legislation.  Pharmaceutical companies write drug regulating legislation.  Banks write bank regulating legislation.  It’s how we’ve gotten into the mess we’re in.  Then the government comes along and throws money at ventures that would never get loans in the open market, propping up businesses that should otherwise fail (and often do – think Solyndra). 

Okay, but that’s what he did LAST time. This time it’s Cain driving the conversation, with his 9-9-9, or his new improved 9-0-9, or his eventual 4.6-2.7adjusted-negative1.5. That didn’t come from anything RoPaul’s been talking about this time; that comes from 9.5% adjusted-actually 14.5% real national unemployment and that very nervous 1% who own the GOP.

With deep OWS Ron Paul support and with the help of the Tea Party Express Ron Paul can make a real run for the nomination.   We have to come together and back Paul. 

And if he dosen’t win all you idiots that thought he was a kook can eat crow in about 8 years when we have to bring all the troops from around the world and stop our war mongering, and  close down goverment programs because we are flat out broke and can’t sustain any of this anymore. then lets see who has the last laugh, except  it won’t be funny.

so dismantling the EPA and dept of education and healthcare for poor people is not…….anti-black?  lol

Bachmann won that still Iowa fried fat poll. I can’t keep up with all the silly straw polls. I suspect they’re all just pieces of the GOP election machine plan, to keep the bases in heat, keep the funds coming in towards making each person’s favorite more competitive. This history of straw polls is they’re a worse predictor than a throwing darts in the dark.

He lives in a special universe that only RoPaul can see, so he tends to miss what mere mortals see.

Dear Ron Paul Supporters:  If all we do is post comments on the web, wave signs, and contribute to the campaign we will NOT win the nomination.  The only way to possibly win the nomination is to convince the Registered Republican Voters in your neighborhoods.  Get a list of voters from your county or state.  Usually County Board of Elections and Secretary of State, or similar.  Search the web.  Get the list, get some literature, and start knocking on doors.  It is actually fun and most Registered Republicans will be happy to talk with you.  Join a meetup group in your area. The number of people that actually vote in the Republican Primary is quite small compared to the overal number of voters. I will repeat, THE ONLY WAY RON PAUL CAN POSSIBLY WIN THE NOMINATON IS FOR YOU TO START KNOCKING ON DOORS – NOW. This means YOU.  Make up your mind to do this or be prepared to lose.  Liberty-Peace-Prosperity

I hear you Rex… but from my perspective a person who is given gifts and then wastes them on nastiness and (as you put it) criminality is a moron.  They could have been and done such good.

This investing the independent MSM with favoritism consistently misses the point about the MSM: that it heavily favors conflict, because conflict sells papers and gets people on the tube or the Net. In 2008 the interests of conflict worked to Obama’s advantage, because no one in the MSM had really ever taken a run at McCain. The current need to find conflict means lots of encouragement of hand-to-hand combat in the RNC presidental contest, which is certainly unified on beating Obama, so the MSM is mostly against Obama. Get to the general, though, and things change. Whatever happens then will be whatever the MSM thinks best serves conflict, whether its going after Obama or going after the GOP candidate. The nice thing about being the incumbent is that the personal revelations are all pretty much in the past. The attractive thing to the GOP about Romney is that his life story is so well known it’s almost as if he has half-incumbent immunity in this. Yet, the most interesting thing about Romney to the MSM is very likely to turn out to be two things: going over all the individual incidents of vulturing where he led Bain to acquiring a company for its own pension funds, firing all the workers and selling the skeleton as a tax shelter, and then his peculiar attraction for flip-floppery. Watch, for example, how poorly Mitt is going to be shown as coming off when compared side by side with his father.

If you read his plan, he is not dismantling Medicaid (health care for the poor).  He recognizes that mechanisms need time to be put back in place before not having Medicaid is again an option.  Much of our charity care system has been destroyed by extensive abuse by the undocumented, with the federal government failing to reimburse hospitals for that care despite promises to do so and laws requiring the hospitals to provide the care regardless of reimbursement.  Southern CA lost 300 charity hospitals in a five year period. 

The EPA is a nightmare.  People’s needs are sacrificed to the needs of dying species (think spotted owl, various frogs, etc.).  Millions of species died before we ever started polluting.  Not every species should be artificially protected and kept going; some are meant to die off.  The EPA prohibits people from making full use of their own land with absurd regulations.  The EPA is working on stealth carbon taxes.  They have cut down our number of CLEAN coal plants (all they emit now is water vapor and some CO2), dramatically increasing the cost of electricity.  They regulate businesses out of doing business in the US; the businesses simply move to a more business friendly country.  States have environmental regulations that are tailored to the needs of their citizens and particular environment.  We don’t need the EPA. 

The DOE is useless and educates no one.  It puts mandates on schools and then forces compliance by threatening to withhold funds.  Our children were far better educated when the states took care of their own education programs without federal interference.  With education controlled on the state and local levels, parents get to give more direct input and wield more influence on the decisions affecting their children. 

R U talking about the OWS or RoPaulism? Or Mars Attacks; are you alone? You might want to phone a family member or friend now, let them judge if you’re okay.

That’s the standard here: no standards whatsoever. Well, outright porn wouldn’t be welcome, but we’ve already seen that ignorance, racism, religiosity, willful lying, none of those are barred. It’s pretty much the Dodge City of websites.

Yea, like we’re supposed to believe someone who would type “liberal democrat”. This place needs a more compelling quality of troll; the right wing ones are just too pathetically obvious.

Yea, like we’re supposed to believe someone who would type “liberal democrat”. This place needs a more compelling quality of troll; the right wing ones are just too pathetically obvious.

Oh please. If the Paultards vote in the general at all, they all vote Republican or Libertarian. If Paul ran as an independent, he’d pick up all his votes from those two sources, and Obama would cruise. Might even name a building after RoPaul in gratitude.

That’s why his supporters give him as much money as we are able.  He needs it in order to get his message out via paid advertising, as opposed to the others who get all the interviews (and without the insults they throw at Paul, I might add) on the talking head shows.  Really hoping his advertising gets people to explore his positions on the issues.  http://www.RonPaul2012.com

Remember those weirdo geek nerdwranglers who sat wiggling in the corner hoping to duck a beating and having their lunch money stolen daily in high school. That’s your Ron Paul yutes movement right there. Those people can’t tie their own shoes. The reason the RoPaul movement seems forever young is that so many of them die a horrible and young death accidentally blowing themselves up in Chem class, or tripping into open manholes on the way home. Libertarian is such a cool thing to say when you want to claim being ‘above’ politics, when in reality there hasn’t been a single period in history when a libertarian government was elected. Not even in the Netherlands, which should say everything. It’s like saying, I’d really like to sleep with girls but they won’t touch me with a 10 foot pole, so I’m a committed onanist.

The others are only giving it lip service.  That’s why we can accept no substitutes. 

No. He was asked a question and he gave the minimum correct answer in the least dismissive way he could think of. After all, they are Republicans, and after all, there might be an open convention.

He gave a terrific stump speech in Maryland the other day. The guy spits fire when he gets on a role. He’s Obama’s man for the white male working class, at least until Obama and Hillary Clinton come to an understanding.

Yeah, those straw polls and online polls that never translate into actual, you know, votes.

But it’s possible, mostly because so many in the GOP so deeply despise or distrust Mitt. Cain can’t do it, so if Perry can’t get back into this, yeah, I can see this maybe happening. But not as FUNCTION of straw polls and online polls – rather, as the last ditch effort of the Anyone But Mitt coalition.

The thing is, you don’t seem to be at all reflecting on what a RoPaul nomination would mean: that the GOP had decided to go 100% batshit goldbug humbug racist nuts, and just offer up 30 years of those most inflammatory crap you could ever imagine could find itself into a newsletter. Yeah, there’d be several tens of millions who’d vote for him in the general, and about 3 times that many who would actually cross party lines to take him out. He’s the only candidate on that stage who could accomplish that, and at the same time speed the demise of the GOP to crank party status about 4 elections before its time.

So, there’s hope. 

“he is still painted with the crazy outsider image”.
That’s a self-portrait.

Liberals want him to bring the troops home. Conservatives want him to cut the size of gov’t. Libertarians want him so that he can restore the constitution. Americans need him so that the debt burden and corporatism can be solved more quickly and efficiently. Above all Americans need to fully accept our freedoms if we are to prove that we can handle personal responsibilities again and set the example for the rest of the world. Anyone without misplaced hatred for Dr. Paul can see how his message could unite all individuals, except the ones that will stop seeing the huge corporate welfare checks. Ron Paul 2012 or you’ll pretty much get karl rove I couldn’t handle that guilt.

“federal interference”  =  ”constitutionally protected regulation”

I agree!! I’m all on aboard with you. 

Just on your EPA note. Yes some species are “meant” to die off. But you also have to consider what effect that has on the echo-system as a whole. Take for instance the Spotted Owl. As its number have decreased we’ve seen a growth in the number of rodents, which has in turn led to a problems regarding food storage with farmers, supermarkets etc.

I agree that government regulation has gone too far, and an independent body would be a better option, but it is important to protect species from disappearing if human’s are the cause.

Absolutely, I agree on the problem. I disagree on the solution. Personally, I think regulations are necessary. I just think we have the wrong ones. I think, more than anything, we need to clean up Congress, put strict controls on lobbying and campaign finance as well as term limits on lawmakers (among other things), and then we need to get regulations passed that actually help limit corruption and work to better give the poor and middle class a stepping stone into wealth if they want to work for that. 

Ron Paul, I feel like, mostly wants to do away with regulation, not pass anything in its place and let the “Invisible Hand” (an abstract concept rooted in fantasy) take care of the rest. That will fail because large parts of society don’t work like markets. You can’t, for example, easily move to another state because yours decides to let a company pollute. Doing so would mean abandoning your job, family and friends, etc. So it doesn’t easily translate into a market mentality where consumers choose what’s best. Some regulation is indeed stupid and some is very, very much a part of the basic things we value as a society. I think Paul is mostly promoting a fantasy. 

By the way, the bit about Solyndra I think misses the point. The U.S. government (and military) heavily backed research in computers, which were thought of as mostly useless by the market for decades. Those subsidies led to the Internet, which would arguably have never been created without federal interference. The U.S. investment in Solyndra is a similar example. The administration is funding alternative energy companies to help make us competitive with China. Solyndra was the only company of 40 to tank and that had a lot to do with fluctuations in the price of goods overseas rather than some corrupt scheme. 

I agree with most of your first paragraph.  Ron Paul is not recommending no regulations, just pushing most of them down to state and local levels where we can more easily keep an eye on what is being done for us and wield more influence than we can on a national level.  I guess you’re right about it not being easy to move to a state that has regulations more to your liking, although people do it for jobs and many other reasons.  I’ve lived in a number of states over the years.  I would never, for example, live in California.  While it is beautiful and enjoys nice weather, the people in government there are nuts (IMO).  Telling truckers, for example, that they can’t smoke in their own trucks because it is a “workplace”. 

We cannot compete with China on the current playing field because it is uneven.  We have more regulations, taxes, higher wages, etc.  China pollutes like crazy.  But their economy is faltering too.  This depression is going to be global. 

Steve Jobs started out in his garage and grew a successful computer business.  If a business can’t get financing in the open market, it is unlikely to be a good investment for our government.  It changes the playing field, making it less fair and making government subsidized industries less efficient and more dependent.  The internet was developed by DARPA under our military as an emergency means of communicating if major systems and centers were attacked.  That’s different because it wasn’t initially developed as a private venture for profit purposes. 

Ron Paul has got all the support he is ever going to get.
It is not his fault.
It is the fault of those who won’t let go of the wedge issues, like abortion. Ron Paul is personally against it but also against government deciding on it. (This is where Herb Cain has gotten into trouble with his base.)
The war on drugs. Ron Paul’s stance is let the addicts kill themselves. It is not the government’s business. (Maybe that is a little blunt, but it’s basically true.)
Ron Paul would not build a fence. Let the immigrants come and compete. Ron Paul is for total free trade. Let the whole world compete.
Even his most ardent supporters will not agree with him on all of those things, but I will.
I agree that we don’t need another aircraft carrier or submarine. I agree that we need to get out of Afghanistan.

I don’t agree with him on removing all social safety nets, and I especially don’t agree with him on returning to the gold standard. That is an argument that takes up pages all by itself, but it won’t happen so I’m not sweating it.

The problem I have with Paul’s plan to let the states decide is that state politics are just as corrupt if not more so than federal politics. Ostensibly, the federal government’s role under the Constitution is to ensure that the states follow the basic laws of the land, including things like ensuring equal protections, etc. I think Paul goes too far in wanting to strip the federal government of so much. He’s argued that (while he hates racism) it should up to businesses to determine to whether to serve blacks. I know what he’s trying to say, but if you’re a black man living in Mississippi and everyone around you supports businesses that segregate, what can you do without federal interference? The “Free Market” has failed you, in that case. 

What’s more, his insistence on following the strictest and most minimal interpretations of the Constitution is not only a bad idea given the huge change in society since the 18th century, but it’s also not what the Founding Fathers even wanted. Jefferson, for example, suggested that the Constitution be rewritten every 15 years to better satisfy the needs of society. That’s an extreme idea, but it shows that they the founders knew society would change in ways they couldn’t foresee. Paul, however, insists that only the most limited view is correct. He’s very close to arguing that we return to the Articles of Confederation, I think. You’re right that we can’t compete with Chinese wages, but if you told Americans that they should start working for $.50 per hour (or much less), they would disagree. So either our production changes, or we find new markets (knowledge-based, for example) to start selling to other countries. We have the most educated people in the world here and the best technology. Green energy is just one of many fields we could be expanding in. I know what you mean about Jobs, and you’re right in a sense, but he wouldn’t have been able to even sell Apple computers if the U.S. government wasn’t funding computers and the Internet in numerous ways decades earlier. His career was entirely contingent on the federal government. Paul has said he would drastically slash scientific research fund because he thinks it’s not the role of government. 

He won’t get OWS support. Not socialist enough.
This is a lib talking. We need about 10 % “socialism.” That is the safety net. It keeps good people from turning into thieves because they have no other option, and it means that children who would otherwise die can grow up to be the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or even a drug addict, but at least there is a chance for something good. 

What is the point of your trolling? Where do you get the idea that supporting Ron Paul would mean that the GOP has become racist? What exactly is your beef against Ron Paul? Who do you support and why? Your posts are incoherent and achieves very little. How about cranking out some facts instead of opinions that you pull from your clouded head.

Yep. Libertarians live in a ego-driven dream world all their making. Despite some solid anti-war stances from Paul, the myths of “small/no” government are fantasies from the solitary, radical individualist types who refuse to see that they would be NOWHERE without many of the government agencies and programs they hope to dismantle.

Government is SECURITY and everyone would be nowhere without it. In fact, the very fact that government is invisible–you don’t see smog like Mexico City, or construction quality issues–because they only become apparent when government is NOT there–not when it is–makes people imagine that they don’t need government. ‘Security,’ being safe and secure, is invisible while insecurity is a guy pointing a gun in your face–or a thick cloud of particulate matter hovering in a river valley.

You don’t elect folks into government who are against government; you elect people who believe in civility and civilization. “Nasty, brutish, and short” are not civilization.

Without government, libertarians would twist in the wind like all the rest who imagine themselves capable of living in a so-called state of nature. These folks think they are ‘supermen?’ What an infantile deceit! Wow! You have a shotgun and a 4X4? You’re so tough! How deluded can you be?

The EPA should be abolished so Libertarians can protect the environment on their own? Ha! No Medicaid? Better build that fence around your gated “community” a little taller, buddy!

Civilization and civility: two products of government that would fall away in a libertarian world…

I’m a Ron Paul supporter. And I agree. I love how passionate and energetic we are and it gives him enormous influence but it also acts as a sort of Trojan Horse, somewhat decreasing his amount of exposure to new people. What he needs more of is unannounced visits so that he can speak to a more varied audience. Of course, sometimes packing the crowd with your supporters is what you want and need. We need to prioritize.

I don’t think Ron Paul is painted with the crazy, outsider image.  There are some statements of his that are just totally out of the mainstream.  When he said he would not have killed Bin Laden, he destroyed himself as a potential Commander-in-Chief.  OBL said a 1000 times he would not be taken alive, why get our men killed trying to capture him, and then if you do, we waste millions trying to put him on trial.  Ron Paul needs to come down out of the clouds and be a little more practical.

So if your state AND your federal government are corrupt, which can you have the greatest influence and impact in changing?  One of Ron Paul’s side efforts these last four years has been to get people involved in local government so we can then move up into state and federal government.  It’s really the only way to take our government back from the criminals.  One way you might look at it is that, as a president who would not (ab)use Executive Orders, whatever Paul proposes is going to have to go through Congress so the extent of his proposals actually implemented will be tempered.  We’ve all seen legislation whittled down to where it barely resembles its original intent once it makes it through the House and the Senate and it gets (what’s that word similar to “harmonized” for how they blend the separate bills from the two chambers?). 

I’m inclined to think that we have come far enough along in our society that if a business had a stated policy that excluded a particular race, most people today would boycott the enterprise and it would soon fold.  Maybe I’m overly optimistic on that. 

We have not had the best educated citizenry in some time.  In a quick search, the most recent rankings I found were here:  http://www.geographic.org/country_ranks/educational_score_performance_country_ranks_2009_oecd.html  They show the US to be 33rd in Reading, 27th in Math and 22nd in Science.  Part of the reason for eliminating the DOE.  We no longer have the best technology either – it’s mostly made elsewhere and other countries are surpassing us in breakthrough innovation, patents, etc.  My entire department (Information Technology) at our regional (North and South America) headquarters of a global corporation was laid off and our jobs were sent to India. 

Green energy will become successful when it can be produced economically.  Spain banked heavily on a green economy and was one of the first economies to fall because of it.  California is in the process of levying carbon taxes and you will soon see it take their already bankrupt system down further.  I’m not convinced that Jobs’ success was so contingent on anything the government did.  But I am open to the possibility.  Private industries (including those looking to sell to the government) invest in research and development far more effectively than government does. 

And, hey, for the record, I’ve really been enjoying our conversation. 

Yes, Ron Paul in my opinion- backed up by numerous times he has blamed America(or the dreaded Joooos) for virtually all foreign policy problems doesn’t like his country very much. That’s just the way he sounds to most American ears, if they hear him long enough.

He’s sincere, and not stupid(from an educational point of view).Being sincere however, doesn’t make you sane.

His views of the civil rights act, defense issues and even the extent of his Fed obsession (and I’m no fan of the Feds monetary policy or secretive loans.)

He has pandered to Wackos like Alex Jones and had a long standing newsletter spouting bigoted bullshit put out by Lew Rockwell. That’s just off the top of my head.

If i as a libertarian leaning conservative had to choose between his Ronulus and Obama, I and many others would probably want to blow our brains out.

Not sure who’s going to win the nomination,there are some good people but it’s quite a flawed field. I’m leaning Newt myself,just because despite his baggage, he’s experienced as heck in Washington and could decimate Obama in an issue debate. Romney would be an okay candidate, although he is way too squishy for my liking.Lastly,l Democrats have a bigger problem with Mormons(according to Gallup i believe) than Repubs do

“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have,” Gerald Ford.

Paul is proposing small federal government, not no government.  The idea is that more should be handled on state and local levels where services can be tailored to the citizens affected, where we can keep a closer eye on what is going on in government and where we can wield more influence on our government. 

States have environmental laws and they are more relevant to the people living in those states than one-size-fits-all national laws. 

It often seems that our respective faiths were more the source of civilization and civility than government.  Faith promotes it from within, while government imposes it in an authoritarian way. 

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”  Benjamin Franklin

Okay, in an earlier thread, as well as here once, I started calling those some call “white people” pink people.

Well, it turns out I should have waited a bit for science to help out. Accordingly to light spectrum science, there is no color in nature that reflects as pink. There IS however a shade that spectrum scientists call “green negative” or “green minus” or “minus green”, which comes from combining the color red (Hey GOP) with the color blue (Hey Dems) and take out the green: and that shows up to humans as indistinguishable from pink. As in, the reason pink flamingos look pink to us is that they are red+blue-green.

This guy explains it all in a minute:
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/2011/10/one-minute-physics-why-there-is-no-pink-light.html

Now, I could stick with pink, or I could call those some call “white people” minus green people, or -green for short. I kind of like that, because it implies -green people might be envious of other people whose skin color doesn’t show up as pink, but blue-black, brown-black, various shades of brown, olive, yellow, red.

So there you are: unless convinced otherwise, those of us who have skin in a color in the part of the spectrum that the human eye cannot detect are hereby designated -green -

tho I’m also seriously considering this alternative: neggreen. 

Pretty snappy, yes no? Plus as a bonus, it kind of reminds neggreens what they all used to call African American blacks. And for the several neggreens who post here complaining regularly about discrimination against neggreen people, they could always form a National Association for the Advancement of Non-Colored People, the en double a en cee pee. 

Which is only fair & equitable.

I don’t believe OWS is completely united in that.  Have been recommending that the TEA Party get out with OWS and talk with them, helping to focus them on the real problems and help them recognize the solutions.  They’re upset about the same things.  A little guidance might be helpful.  A little worried that some of them talk about tossing capitalism when they’ve never really seen anything but crony capitalism in their lifetimes, but I don’t think they’re all on the “let’s ditch capitalism” page.

To dismantle the Federal Government is to destroy the United States.

Libertarians come in sheep’s clothing talking of freedom, but the result would more de Sade than anything else. “Big government” purchased the Louisiana territories, and all the residents of this land owe their very residency to actions like these throughout the country.

Our Libertarian friends like Walter Williams claim to live in “Live Free” New Hamphire in some sort of Libertarian fantasy land, but it doesn’t matter! As long as these folks live WITHIN the boundries of the US, they are benefiting from the security implicit in the government that surrounds New Hamphire.

Williams himself claims to belong to a department that is fully funded within George Mason–a public university. Despite his chair being fully funded without the university, it still receives the benefits of the university’s administration. He walks on a publicly funded campus to get to his privately endowed chair. Just like his “Free State project”: as long as government is nearby, EVERYONE nearby–within and without–will benefit from the inherent security of the state.

Why don’t Libertarians start their Free State project in Africa, huh? Not enough..you guessed it, security or GOVERNMENT! See? “I don’t wanna start my “Free State in Africa! I want it in plush New Hampshire!”

Libertarians come in AFTER the state does the heavy lifting–when all the real work has been done. The core of Libertarianism is greed–the simple wish to be free of associations with others through taxation and debt. “Debt is a bond” are Thomas Paine’s words and libertarians are anti-social and would like nothing more than to be free of “bonds.” Destroy the Federal Government and then destroy the state’s.

Simple as your charter schools: We’ll give every family 5 grand for school. Woo-hoo! But what happens? The market will shake out the cheapest schools at 5 grand a year and the rich folks will supplement their 5 grand with another 5 grand. Now it’s 10 grand for a quality education. The best teachers will go to those schools, while cranks like me will be at the poor schools. Same deal as before: a few good schools for the rich and the rest are crap!. Gotta love that “market” and it’s invisible hand!

“But wait, next year we’ve got a budget crisis and we’ve gotta shrink that 5 to 4 grand! Sorry, poor folks!” And soon enough there are NO grands. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! No more education funding! No more Education Dept.!!! Wooo-hoo!

“Environmental laws more relevant to residents…”? Yeah…Washington state folks don’t care about CLEAN WATER as much as those hippies in Oregon! Are you kidding me?!

Civilization and civiltiy come from faith? Huh? Ask the Sunni kids in Iraq if security comes from the Shiite dominated government. Do we get insider trading laws from the Bible? Did the Pope devise this internet? Are people smoking less because of the Mormons? Did Tom Cruise push for a ban on cell phones while driving? Do we throw our $hit buckets in the street when they’re full because the Bishop said that waste causes disease? Do you get your teeth cleaned by the Monsignor? And it never ends….

Wake up from the fantasy, my friend. Ayn Rand is a joke to most folks. Greed will never be the foundation for a stable, well-developed economy or society.

Love,

Brother Tim

 Phhhbbbbtt!!  Biggest bunch of BS I’ve read yet tonight.

I think that Karl needs to start appealing to a broader base if he really wants to win. The thing is, people want to see something in a candidate to which they can relate. This is why partisan voting works!!

auspicious dates http://www.absolutelyfengshui.com/dateselection/auspicious-date.php

Just like you!  Talk about trolling, you can’t even muster enough respect for the man to call him by his correct name.  I hate to break it to you, but “nerds” are “in” these days.  It’s those with the schoolyard bully mentality like yourself that are no longer relevant.

Haven’t seen any of that, except from your posts.  I can certainly see that willful lying is something you’re very familiar with.

Who the hell is RoPaul?  Gad, but you’re an annoying, childish ass!

Any of the others > Gary Johnson & Ron Paul

I’d be happy to supply the guns, if it will rid us of the neocon disease the GOP currently suffers from.

I think Ron Paul says outrageous things to motivate people to find out WHY he says outrageous things.  Every time you research what you thought was outrageous, you come to find out the reasons behind those “crazy” statements are sound, constitutional conservative, free-market policies.  That’s why his base continues to grow slowly but surely.  Only a handful of people at a time are intelligent or intrigued enough to take the bait & do a little research, but when they do take the time, their minds wake up and they become part of the Ron Paul army.  It took me about 3 months in 2007 to go from having never heard of Ron Paul to realizing he’s the best hope we have for getting an honest statesman at the “bully pulpit” for the next 4 years or more.  RON PAUL 2012 or bust!  And I do mean bust – this may be the last chance we have to turn back the tide of destruction of the free USA that has been steadily sweeping us toward one-world government.

Just look at the majority of these comments. They seem to acknowledge that the US is in such a mess, but they dont’ like Paul’s recommendation to stop what the US has been doing which created the mess. Somehow most of them believe that the problem will just go away if the US will continue on its merry path with abandon. When I was a child, I flip most things, and its labeled, made in the great US of A. Now, all I see is made in China. The world has now come to its senses that the US is paying for its goods and services with paper. We can print too you know.

uhmmm no!, and prisonplanet/infowars is ——–>>>>>.

I agree. OWS is not anti-capitalist. OWS says one particular group of capitalists has gotten too creative. They actually bragged about how creative they were in making new investment “vehicles.”
 When investment banks start betting against their own clients and selling them junk, it is time to stop and force them to be honest.
Ron Paul is against the excessive power of all banks, and the Federal Reserve especially.
My problem is that I can’t support him on that last part. Reserve Banks (often under different names) are the way all countries smooth out the bumps that could become depressions or wild inflation.

Thank god you hit the nail on the head.  Yes the internet was developed by DARPA projects.  That guy didnt have an effin clue.

It’s a cultural cross-referent. Apparently you’re not one those who’s “aware of all Internet traditions”, as a another cultural reference goes. RoPaul cross-references American polymath RuPaul Andre Jones – singer, actor (note: or, not ress), writer, model &, most famously, or notoriously to some, drag queen. Besides cross-dressing, RuPaul sought to break cultural barriers to equality, for example: “You can call me he. You can call me she. You can call me Regis and Kathie Lee; I don’t care! Just as long as you call me.” Currently RuPaul is heading up an enterprise called RuPaul’s Drag U, which is either a cable TV reality show or an institution of higher learning competing for students directly with rough comparables like Liberty University, Regency University and Hilldale College. 

Don’t you like children, or are you just trying to challenge me? I hope the latter. Your entry is so short, though, it’s not clear you’re all that competitive. Tell you what, I’ll spot you complete access to any and all dictionaries, thesauruses and even Wikipedia, and restrict myself, as you quite clearly do, to using only one hand to type, though I will commit to keeping my free hand above the table at all times. Ready? Go!

To put it more simply, the libertarian of today says “I am an island.”
I prefer to say, “We are all in this together.”
I posted earlier that there are many things to admire about a true libertarian and they are all about removing artificial barriers to human development. Don’t put fences around the country. Don’t use protective tariffs. Don’t ban abortions. Don’t interfere in personal matters.
Unfortunately, they continue with the don’ts into areas where we need Do’s. The EPA is an excellent example of this. The Libertarian theory is that man does not naturally pollute, therefore we need no “anti-pollution police.” History proves otherwise, but purists ignore history that they don’t like.
What the pure libertarian doesn’t realize is that his GOALS are the same as Marx’s goals were and achieving those goals would result in a world where all progress is lost because no government does equal no security and no safety.
There is always a middle ground, but there is never a successful extreme.

Oo you’re a nasty brutish sort. Do you have an anger management problem? Well of course you do, but I thought it would be more polite to allow you to volunteer it rather than demonstrating it for all here to see.

I’ve already issued the challenge, so let’s see if you can pick a topic in dispute. Ah, I see you already have: willful lying. So, your task now is to pick out a sentence or phrase from all those I’ve distributed across this thread and explain HOW, that is, in what SENSE, that is a) a lie and b) willful. Who knows – I may just concede. Come on now you big angry neggreen, let’s read what you’ve got.

Perhaps its time that folks started letting Paul’s message sink in, because he is right, As far as Rove’s suggestion he widen his base, how much wider could it be? He speaks of Peace, Free Markets, a stable monetary system, rational spending and taxes, limited government, federalism and the Constitution as the guiding rule of law for our nation. What else is there that government is truly responsible according to Article 1 Section 8 and the 10th Amendment that Paul should be talking about?

A lovely start then. 

The subject is whether the person who caused the comment I criticized as being produced by a troll, in the sense of posing as a liberal and a democrat when said person is obviously neither, for three reasons, firstly that no one who is in fact a liberal democrat would both traipsing around in their title would regard that mere fact as worthy of any consideration, and secondly because these days and for some significant period of time those who are truly liberal and Democrats self-identify as Progressives, or liberals, or Democrats, and thirdly because only someone who had trouble working up the nerve to type democrat in a sentence that wasn’t overtly intended as an attack would betray their hesitation by leaving out the capital letter at the beginning.

In addition, note if you will that the said poseur, or poseuse, has not returned to this thread to post a refutation, rebuttal or denial. 

I rest my case.

“The Invisible Hand” is basic Economics 101.

Do you have facts or any substantiation to the accusations and slurs made against Cong. Dr, Ron Paul and those who support him, or are you simply Kieth Oiberman.

Dead tree journalism certainly is dying, but the really good newspapers all already have gone online as generally reliable and sometimes superb news sources. The Christian Science Monitor, for example, is completely online, with no paper version, and continuing. The NY Times and Washington Post both have huge resources online, the U.K.’s best, maybe best in the English speaking world, The Guardian, is online with enormous news sources. McClatchy News has become maybe the best pure news source in the country. Al Jazeera online has excellent resources, and anyone anywhere now can visit the Boston Globe, the LA Times, the SF Chronicle, among quite literally thousands of online news sources here and aboard. If you use Google Chrome as your browser, even the foreign language papers can be translated right for you right before your eyes. The old model is dying, but pretty clearly some new ones are on the rise, and there are now more sources available than ever before.

The main problem with the old model dying is with local news, and that’s no doubt the coming thing for the Internet. Well, until the corporate media giants take it away from us.

Dead tree journalism certainly is dying, but the really good newspapers all already have gone online as generally reliable and sometimes superb news sources. The Christian Science Monitor, for example, is completely online, with no paper version, and continuing. The NY Times and Washington Post both have huge resources online, the U.K.’s best, maybe best in the English speaking world, The Guardian, is online with enormous news sources. McClatchy News has become maybe the best pure news source in the country. Al Jazeera online has excellent resources, and anyone anywhere now can visit the Boston Globe, the LA Times, the SF Chronicle, among quite literally thousands of online news sources here and aboard. If you use Google Chrome as your browser, even the foreign language papers can be translated right for you right before your eyes. The old model is dying, but pretty clearly some new ones are on the rise, and there are now more sources available than ever before.

The main problem with the old model dying is with local news, and that’s no doubt the coming thing for the Internet. Well, until the corporate media giants take it away from us.

I think his points are valid and that he makes them in a concise and lively way. It’s unfortunate that you don’t agree, but then no one is obliging you to read them.

I hear ya, frankly Ron Paul seems like the only candidate that can pull in all types of voters. I have seen everyone from sweet old ladies, to pothead college kids, to thuggish people all behind Ron. He is the United Nations of the Presidential election, what more can he do to spread that further?!

“and he comes across as someone who doesn’t really like his country”

Oh go screw yourself. The ‘champion of the Constitution’ doesn’t care about his country? You are so far out there I don’t think you can be brought back, sir. Everything he does, everything he votes for is to ensure smaller government and more personal liberties. Paul does not have a ceiling of support, the media convincing you of that. I personally know 15 people who didn’t know anything about Paul last election but have already registered so they can vote for him in the primaries.

This is a different time than 4 years ago and after the Change we were promised never came, we all want our freedom, liberties and all troops back. Paul is huge in that aspect, he is the only one providing solutions and not talking points.

But yeah, for future reference, going around proclaiming Ron Paul doesn’t care about America will get you laughed at and not taken seriously.

“Even in Texas, I can’t think of a single city I’ve been to (even Austin)
where I feel like the majority of Republicans would vote for Paul.”

He is a 12-term congressman…from Texas. Just because you don’t “feel” like he has the support doesn’t mean it is not there. Notice how the polls change every week and every week somebody new is at the top nobody knows how this thing is gonna go, but we do know that Paul has a sizable chunk of dedicated fans from ALL walks of life (not just old, white republicans) and no other candidate has this fervent following. People look at this as if it is a bad thing, but I don’t recal ever having a political conversation where somebody was all passionately ROMNEY 2012!…it just doesn’t happen. The straw polls are meant to say something like: if you throw some straw into the wind, where would it float to on that particular day at that particular time. Either way, I don’t exactly see how Paul could broaded his message without watering it down. His economic plan will work if taken straight from the paper, if he starts making changes and cuts to appease this person or that person it makes it worthless at that point. Why must we hound a guy for being honest. Isn’t that what everybody has been wanting in Washington? We finally have someone who can bring it and people just bitch that he isn’t willing to change his views ::sigh::

That is amusing, because last year Steve jobs told Obama he would be a 1 term president if he didn’t do something to help protect production here or else it was all going to china. Apple assembles all of their products in China, think of all those American jobs lost to the Chinese.

Frankly I am sick of my money being turned into toilet paper more and more every day. I feel for this country if Paul loses, because nobody else has a plan to fix anything.

Thank you for contributing.  Nothing.

Ron Paul is utterly narrow minded so it will be pretty hard for him to spread his base. Unless he sells his soul, like Rand, just to get elected.

my sexy photo :)

http://adf.ly/183291/weronika  

They could’ve been contenders.

So much of the Right doesn’t have the courage to do what they know is right. The only consistent trait the Right has is that they are loyal. They are the royalists of our day. And they repeatedly bamboozle the beguiled with outright acting. It is impossible for anyone with an open mind to look at Herman Cain or Michelle Bachmann and not see how crazy they are. That they will not let themselves admit this, that they probably don’t even admit it to themselves, they might as well be puppets with dangling, available strings. It is all a fucking show on that side.

And they seem to so often be the very thing they are currently campaigning against. They
insist on government intruding into the personal lives of others
enforcing their religious values. They capture markets and squeeze them
to benefit its cronies. They collude to create a media empire which
wants to control our minds. No Liberty. No Free Market. No Intellectual Freedom.

And the pretension they many of them share just makes me sick! So many of the argumentative far-right ideologues are just pseudo-intellectuals competing to preach to the biggest personal cult.  They all think they’ve figured something new out.

The difference between them and us is that they are unwilling to lose. They can’t lose, really. For if they were to admit defeat, then they would have to reform, and their house of cards has very little sound structure to build on. If they stop winning, they collapse. And they’re willing to destroy the whole country just to get their way.

Astute observation.  Perhaps a congressional inquiry is in order, after which…Jail Time.

Rove is a useful idiot.  Moreover, talking about stupid shit all the time keeps the low-information voters from starting to ponder what actual, ya know, reality is all about…like (for example) the fact that the Wall Street bankers blew up the entire global economy.

Well, at least Mr. Rove is contemplating the strategic opportunity for a Paul win and is not laughingly dismissing it out of hand anymore. It’s a step in the right direction.

The two major political parties have what amounts to a political stranglehold on power in America. Ross Perot discovered this in ’92 and although he was a bit too flamboyant for many voters’ taste, he did very, very well in the elections. But independents and third party candidates face an impossible task, and Paul has recognized the need to work for reform from “within the system”. It’s a testament to the power of the message and, to some degree, the personality of the messenger. Paul has a powerful message, and while he admits his own lack of charisma in delivering it, he believes in the ability of substance to triumph over style in the end, and continues to deliver the same message with the same candor that he has had for his entire career.

OK, here is one statement you made that is a lie and willful:
“…had a lot of useful interesting observations on the 0.5% of the universe within his sights.”
No one, including you (self-proclaimed God), can know what is in another person’s sights; let alone how much is in their sights.  Any reasonable person would agree with this.  Calling yourself God is very indicative of Narcissism.  You attitude also deeply reflects that of a Narcissist.  There are counselors that may be able to help you.  On a technical observation note as to your statement, I believe you were inferring that Ron Paul has very little in his sights.  Any reasonable person would agree that the universe is very large (close to infinite perhaps).  A half percent of infinite is also infinite.  That is on heck of a lot in his sights!  Good luck with your counseling.

OK, here is one statement you made that is a lie and willful:
“…had a lot of useful interesting observations on the 0.5% of the universe within his sights.”
No one, including you (self-proclaimed God), can know what is in another person’s sights; let alone how much is in their sights.  Any reasonable person would agree with this.  Calling yourself God is very indicative of Narcissism.  Your attitude also deeply reflects that of a Narcissist.  There are counselors that may be able to help you.  On a technical observation note as to your statement, I believe you were inferring that Ron Paul has very little in his sights.  Any reasonable person would agree that the universe is very large (close to infinite perhaps).  A half percent of infinite is also infinite.  That is one heck of a lot in his sights!  Good luck with your counseling.

No a moron is you, Rex the Pretentious!

Ignore Rex the Flatulent- he is a certified dullard.

Apple assembles all of their products in China, think of all those American jobs lost to the Chinese

You mean lost to Apple and Job’s greed?

Precisely the opposite, going around PROCLAIMING Ron Paul DOES LIKE his country will get you laughed. Ron Paul does love his principles yes, and he cares about Individual liberty, but again I can’t sugarcoat this shit for you son. If you think the U.S. is a worse country in terms of global instability than Iran is, or more responsible for Terrorism than Al Qaeda is,YOU DON’T LIKE YOU COUNTRY. Now, no one says you have to like your country, you may think you have good reason to dislike it, but dislike it you. Since he does, he has a ceiling (a low one) of support. This is Ron Pauls’ last election, and then he will retire public life for good.Amen!

Ron Paul 2012 Please!

Because I LOVE AMERICA NOT SPECIAL INTERESTS!

Have you actually taken Economics? The “Invisible Hand” is an abstract idea, like a religion, that was created in the 18th century. It’s not some beneficial power that always does what’s best. It’s a notion by an individual who lived at a time when science and economics were in their infancy and it’s not something that drives debate among economists today. Capitalism exists, obviously, but explain the difference between the Invisible Hand that always does the best for society as a whole and economic Darwinism. Evolution has been proven not to follow some direct path that benefits all. If you want to apply those ideas to economics (somewhat of a leap) then you should realize that markets won’t always move in directions that are best for society. 

Yes, I’ve heard of RuPaul.  I’ve had internet access since it went public, and before that I was a Compuserve-er.  Since RuPaul has absolutely nothing to do with Ron Paul, I just don’t see how being a childish ass helps you make any of your arguments.  It just makes you look more stupid than I initially gave you credit for.  Interesting that you should know so much about RuPaul and so little about Ron Paul, yet you feel it necessary to try and cross-link the two.  You must be a big RuPaul fan.

I love children, have a few myself, even lost one to pediatric cancer.

I type and spell very well, thanks to advanced placement English in high school, followed by college level creative and technical writing, and 20 long years running computer systems.

Now, if you really want to play, I’ll try and squeeze a few more responses, but I’m waaay too busy to play with a dick that thinks he’s much funnier than he really is.  Drop the RoPaul weak joke/insult and I might think you have something intelligent to say.  As it is right now, I’m pretty convinced you’re just a 20-something immature troll with nothing better to do than try to get a rise out of people.

Yes, I’ve heard of RuPaul.  I’ve had internet access since it went public, and before that I was a Compuserve-er.  Since RuPaul has absolutely nothing to do with Ron Paul, I just don’t see how being a childish ass helps you make any of your arguments.  It just makes you look more stupid than I initially gave you credit for.  Interesting that you should know so much about RuPaul and so little about Ron Paul, yet you feel it necessary to try and cross-link the two.  You must be a big RuPaul fan.

I love children, have a few myself, even lost one to pediatric cancer.

I type and spell very well, thanks to advanced placement English in high school, followed by college level creative and technical writing, and 20 long years running computer systems.

Now, if you really want to play, I’ll try and squeeze a few more responses, but I’m waaay too busy to play with a dick that thinks he’s much funnier than he really is.  Drop the RoPaul weak joke/insult and I might think you have something intelligent to say.  As it is right now, I’m pretty convinced you’re just a 20-something immature troll with nothing better to do than try to get a rise out of people.

I’m sure we agree on a lot of basic principles and I’m definitely for governmental reform. About your point on whether society is racist, I grew up in the south and can say with certainty that there are some small towns where segregation would be reinstated. There are some places even today in Texas where blacks are told not to be around after sunset. I have a Pakistani-American friend who was confronted at a gas station. But to your point about how far society has come, the basic thing I think to keep in mind is that the South didn’t decide to end segregation on its own. The federal government had to intervene, with force, so I think that is a hole in Paul’s argument that the market will settle things. The market had the chance once, and nothing was settled. Blacks could not pick up and move to the north because they were poor. 

I’m not sure I understand why state politicians are easier to manage than federal politicians, and I think for reasons like the one above, federal power is necessary in some form that’s considerably stronger than what Paul suggests. I’d rather see the stricter controls on Congress I mentioned before, which would go a long way toward cleaning up the federal government and reaching some of the same goals Paul supporters want without weakening the hand of the federal government to police the states when necessary. I agree DOE isn’t great, but what’s necessary in my opinion is a stronger DOE. I say this because education standards when left entirely to some poorer, rural areas are actually really, really low. I’ve seen it myself. 

When I say we have the brightest in the world here, I mean in our universities. I agree our grade schools are horrible and the average European, for example, is considerably more educated than the average American. But the brightest Americans are at the best universities along with the brightest ex-pats in the world and they’re building the advanced technology in places like Cambridge, MA. But you’re right that the disparity is great, and that’s a long term problem. Green energy is a young industry, and it’s not one the U.S. would ever totally depend on now, but just like the computer industry in the 1970s and 1980s was relatively small, green energy is going to be huge so investment in it now is risky for individual companies but important for the country in the long run. 

About Jobs, I was saying that the computer industry and Internet would not have been developed quickly, or perhaps at all, without the federal government, so the private business he was able to make launch would not have been possible with the U.S. government. The government’s hand in funding research from the earliest computer architecture to the Internet was pretty heavy. I keep going back to this example, but it’s really just one of several industries that the federal government helped create and support. Of course, private industry does similar things every day too, but it’s hard to get investors to back a new technology that may not turn a profit for 20 years, if ever. I agree private industry can be more efficient, but not in every case, and the exceptions can and have had huge positive ramifications. 

Maybe they just don’t like to play with dicks either, you little tin god you!  ;)  Seriously, are you a poly-sci major practicing your writing skills?  At one time people did describe themselves as liberal, moderate, or conservative, whether they also called themselves Democrats, or Republicans.  Now it seems one has to be either a conservative Republican, or a liberal Democrat.  All the moderates and more balanced thinkers have gone extinct in Duopoly land.  You’re either an extremist, or you’re non-existent, as far as the parties are concerned.

Now you’ve said something I can actually agree with.  You’ve gone and spoiled my whole image of you!

Dr. Ron Paul does apply to a broad base. That broad base just doesn’t include neoconservatives like Karl Rove.

Alot of you people seem to have some fear that the day after Paul takes office you will wake up and there will be no federal government.  Get real!  He won’t be able to do nearly as much as he wants.  Even Paul knows this.  You will have a little thing called Congress he will have to comprimise with on most of this.  But I can promise what stuff he does get done will put us in a hell of alot better shape than we are now.

Alot of you people seem to have some fear that the day after Paul takes office you will wake up and there will be no federal government.  Get real!  He won’t be able to do nearly as much as he wants.  Even Paul knows this.  You will have a little thing called Congress he will have to comprimise with on most of this.  But I can promise what stuff he does get done will put us in a hell of alot better shape than we are now.

If these polls were open to more then “hardcore Republicans” I’m afraid you would be shocked.  Paul carries loads of support from the young, Libertarians, independents and even Democrats that supported Obama.  He will be the only GOP candidate that can beat Obama.  Better change that tune on him or prepare for four more years of Odumbo.

Being blatantly racist— and not being politically correct are two completely different things-

Hubris such as yours usually can’t tell the difference, and neither can the reverse
-racist or the ACLU tragedy chasers who look for every chance to sensationalize every spoken sentence and turn it into something that perpetuates RACIAL TENSION-

Unfortunate that your specific outlook perpetuates small minded ideas–

By the way— how many followers does RON PAUL have exactly?

His numbers are better than Thompson or GUlianis just for years ago-

Let’s leave your presumption and conjecture for the Halls of University–

Only hard facts have Merritt here

Poor karl, “the architect of the corrupt bush administration”. Appears few, if any of the GOP candidates even pay him the slightest bit of attention. Certainly palin didn’t.  I think it means he is a HAS-BEEN. No one cares, except greta, who has become a robotonic fox news anchor. Sorry karl, your days of lies, corruption, dirty trick politics seems to be on the wain.  Let’s face it, if you were that good, you would have run for ofc.  What is the saying: ” those than can do, those that can’t prattle along with meaningless wisdom”.

So what he is saying is do like the others. Go out there and tell the people anything they want to hear to get votes. Lie and you might get elected. This is what is wrong with the neo-cons. They prefer lying to the truth.

Maybe they just don’t like to play with dicks either, you little tin god you!  ;)  Seriously, are you a poly-sci major practicing your writing skills?  At one time people did describe themselves as liberal, moderate, or conservative, whether they also called themselves Democrats, or Republicans.  Now it seems one has to be either a conservative Republican, or a liberal Democrat.  All the moderates and more balanced thinkers have gone extinct in Duopoly land.  You’re either an extremist, or you’re non-existent, as far as the parties are concerned.

having a message nailed that speaks to intellectuals and political activist , leaves out the other 50% of the population that gets their opinions from Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanity, George Stephonopolis, glen Beck, etc etc—

If he can explain his concepts in Dummied Down equivalents– you can bet people will pallet them-

The Sheeple fear him- not because of his words, but because of how their SHEPARDS dummy down his concepts and SPIN them into fear of change-

You want a revolution? Come up with coin phrases—

Like 9-9-9— the dumbest of coin phrases that was never meant to be read-

Paul simply needs to say—

Support Defensive spending– Stop all Offensive spending-

“Offensive” having a double en tondra

That’s what Paul needs— to get past the media-

As coin phrases can’t be spun as easy by the media-

I’ll say it again, there is a difference between not being politically correct– and being racist-

Your use of the word PAULTARD shows how simple minded you are and that all things are simple black and white— rather than more complicated than it has to be–

It is important to know that concepts taught outside of liberal university systems are less accepted in the real world — which allows social controls on the progression of society-

It is arrogance and hubris that fuel YOUR personal opposition to facts and concepts-

Laws are already in place to regulate, yet they are not enforced because the elite are the ones that own the process of JUSTICE– hence why it’s corrupt and not working in any shape or form for the SERFS of this society-

Chew on that for a while– slosh it around in your tin can before responding– and think about listening to your inner patriot — before answering,,

Why would you support the status quo? Unless you were part of the status quo?

Wake UP

How can a billionaire like Romney or any other candidate have YOUR PERSONAL BEST INTEREST In mind????

Look who financially supporting their campaigns!!!

That could actually work— as Paul would no longer be going against his WORD–

” I never said I wouldn’t run third party For VICE president—”

What a great concept— as the rules don’t apply to the co runner on the ticket– just the primary-

Ron is broadening his base.  Why in the heck do you think he is spending all this money on campaign ads?  His message is sound.   So is his appeal.   More people just need to learn about him and hear him speak for more than a minute or two on the issues.

Mencius (replying to my own comment because there is no reply button on yours)

I’m really sorry to hear racism is still so alive in some places.  Have lived mostly in the northeast, some in the southwest and the only southern state I’ve lived in was Florida, which doesn’t count because it’s mostly transplants. 

State government is easier to monitor and influence because the elected have fewer voices to listen to (lobbyists tend to focus on DC for one-stop maximum influence), and it is easier to go to my state capital than it is to run to Washington – whether to talk to a representative or to protest. 

I agree we need stricter controls on Congress as you
mentioned. Not clear on how a bigger DOE is a good idea when it has deteriorated the quality of education nationally, but I understand your concerns about inefficient rural districts. Not sure off the top of my head about the best way to address that.  I have some major concerns about the types of indoctrination going on in our schools.  For example, my niece was recently doing homework for junior high.  She had to read from her textbook and determine whether Christianity, Judaism or Islam has had the most beneficial impact on western civilization.  She chose Islam.  When I asked her to explain, she said the assignment was to choose one and to use three points from the text to defend her choice.  The only choice she could find three supporting statements for was Islam.  They were not allowed to use resources other than their textbook. 

Am I wrong in thinking that Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Edison developed incredible technologies that revolutionized the world without government assistance?  I believe computers would have also developed without government backing, although perhaps at a slower pace.  The internet likely would have taken a great deal longer without the government. 

spoken like a true idiot.

You,sir, are the very obvious narrow minded moron.

oh oh! Wait!  I can do that to!  I can call someone I don’t know anything about a moron too!  Watch… 

You, sir, are the obvious narrow minded moron.  Wow!  That was so cool!  And very productive!  Let’s do more of that.  Can we, can we?  Oh pretty please?!

oh oh! Wait!  I can do that to!  I can call someone I don’t know anything about a moron too!  Watch… 

You, sir, are the obvious narrow minded moron.  Wow!  That was so cool!  And very productive!  Let’s do more of that.  Can we, can we?  Oh pretty please?!

You don’t know you have been brainwashed by Frank Luntz, but you have.
That’s the thing about brainwashing. it is like hypnosis.

You catch on Quick. Simple, wasn’t it/

Troops, thanks for an interesting conversation. About the experience of Northeasterners vs Southerners, as someone who has spent a lot of time in both regions, I’ve found that people sometimes don’t understand the experiences of others who have had dramatically different experiences. I say this because I’ve seen real poverty along the U.S.-Mexico border, and people sort of stagnate there because the education system sucks and they barely make $20K a year, if that, at whatever jobs are available. Of course, people can leave, but it’s not easy to do, and so I think it’s perfectly fine for the federal government to exempt the poor from taxes, offer them student loans and grants and otherwise give aid to people who want to work hard but are starting off from a point drastically lower than say the lazy son of a rich man born in Connecticut. I’m not suggesting the rich man’s son’s money should be taken from him and distributed to the poor. I just think, in a supposed meritocracy, we should offer stepping stones to the disadvantaged who are driven and smart. I’ve never heard anything from Paul that would address that issue. 

I see your point about state politicians but I don’t think it means that we can’t have a more efficient, cleaned-up federal government that still retains its strength. As a voter, I’m open to listening to arguments about specific parts of the government that could be scaled down, but I’d have to believe the change wouldn’t benefit the privileged at the expense of the poor. I understand that there are plenty of people who game the system and don’t succeed because of the decisions they make, but I guess I feel like I’ve seen and known enough poor people to believe that federal help (like Pell grants) is necessary because some states (like Texas) offer little.  

About the experience of your niece, if schools have to comply with a separation of church and state and essentially be agnostic, then it makes sense that they don’t favor one religion over another. I understand if you’re a Christian that can be difficult (personally, I’m agnostic but I respect most beliefs) to accept. I don’t know for sure, but my guess is that there were at least three reasons for any of the three religions and your niece only recognized the ones for Islam or she thought it would be easier to write.

I don’t know all of the details about Bell or Edison (though I think Edison’s story was pretty complex and a lot of his work was stolen by a competitor who just had more capital than him), but I did some looking around and found stats that say the federal government provides over 50 percent of all basic research funds now and around 25 percent of all research & development, with private industry making up most of the rest. The benefit is that private industry can appropriate research from the government and more easily get investors because the groundwork has been laid. GPS, for example, is the result of government research, and that’s had a huge effect, including on smartphones. The fed gov is responsible for funding research that won a 1978 Nobel and helped launch the genetics and biotechnology industry today.

Anyway, I don’t dislike Paul. As president, he wouldn’t be able to do a lot of what he wants unless Congress signs on and I don’t think that would happen. Some of the things he would have control over, like ending the wars, I’d support. I’m not likely to vote for him though but I respect some of what he wants to do. My main beef with him is that he has the absolute idea that everything the government does is wrong and everything unfettered companies do is great and I just think the situation is more complex than that. The federal government is wasteful or helpful and necessary, depending on what you’re looking at. Unregulated companies can do great things or really screw things up for innocent people. So there needs to be a balance between giving companies the ability to act and making sure the states and companies don’t screw everything up for the rest of us. 

I screwed up and replied to myself. My answer to your last post is below. 

Actually Mr. Rove, more people are listening than you think.. The message of liberty and freedom that Ron Paul preaches is on everyone’s lips.. It’s going to be an interesting election year.. 

Liberty is a pretty broad subject Karl Rove. It applies to everything and everyone.

If he started to limit his message of Liberty, his support would only get smaller.

Everyone do your part. I do signbombs in my area every Sunday, and do it for at least 15-30 minutes. Every bit counts, and it’s very awesome to be smiling there on the sidewalk with my signs, knowing that I have done everything I could to elect Ron Paul.

I live in a winter-strong state, and will be out there in the early months of the year in a coat, and mittens with my signs. I even started a meet-up group that’s growing as well.

Liberty is a pretty broad subject Karl Rove. It applies to everything and everyone.

If he started to limit his message of Liberty, his support would only get smaller.

Everyone do your part. I do signbombs in my area every Sunday, and do it for at least 15-30 minutes. Every bit counts, and it’s very awesome to be smiling there on the sidewalk with my signs, knowing that I have done everything I could to elect Ron Paul.

I live in a winter-strong state, and will be out there in the early months of the year in a coat, and mittens with my signs. I even started a meet-up group that’s growing as well.

Mencius, Paul is not completely anti-government.  He just wants the federal government to be smaller and state governments to be stronger, in keeping with the Constitutional plan.  I think he needs to mention that more.  It gets lost in the debate time limits.  He’s not a sound bite kind of guy.  He does better when he can speak without time constraints.  I think some people come away with the impression that he wants no government, or anarchy. 

Ron Paul is not proposing eliminating students loans and grants, just moving them to another department since he would eliminate the DOE. 

I read my niece’s text during that incident (she’s in the gifted and talented program).  There were two examples each of contributions from Judaism and Christianity.  Perhaps they should have been combined as we usually refer to our Judeo-Christian heritage or ethic (the primary difference between the two being whether or not the messiah has arrived).  Schools need to be careful in selecting their textbooks as some come with their own agendas, often agendas that parents are uncomfortable with. 

An example of government funded research: 
In November 2008, the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
of the National Institutes of Health awarded a 5-year, $2.6 million
grant to Wayne State University in Detroit to allow Dr. Xiaoming Li,
professor and director of the university’s Prevention Research Center,
to “establish and evaluate whether an alcohol and HIV intervention
center can assist in reducing the spread of HIV/AIDS among sex workers
in China,” according to a university press release announcing the grant. 
We couldn’t find a suitable US location for the research?!?!?  And, of course, we hear about absurd government studies of the sex habits of ants, frogs, etc. 

Have been to Edison’s laboratory.  The man was amazing!  It’s a shame if someone else capitalized on his work, although he didn’t do badly for himself.  The section of town he lived in was a gated community before gated communities became as common as they are now. 

We used to have a standard for corporations to be licensed in the US.  They had to state a purpose and demonstrate how their corporate activities would promote the “public good”.  Alas, that is now in our distant past.  All we have now is laws to fight against damage inflicted by corporations and, sadly, they can better afford fighting the litigation than the wronged parties can afford bringing it. 

As an independent voter, I have concluded that there is no difference between the two parties.  They bicker about little things for show, but are in agreement on growing government, wasteful spending and perpetuating corruption, with neither representing We The People.  Ron Paul is the only candidate I see with a sound plan for taking us off that treadmill, and we can’t afford to stay on it or we will lose our country. 

Obviously, Karl Rove hasn’t done his homework. I went to Ron Paul’s event calendar (www.ronpaul2012.com), which is open for all to see, and since June, 2011 he’s spent 17 days in New Hampshire, and 15 days in Iowa. I didn’t count SC. I agree that RP supporters get caught up preaching to the choir – but that’s the only thing from Karl Rove’s disgusting craw that is believable in this piece.

Karl Rove, an unindicted war criminal, says Ron Paul doesn’t go to NH or IA enough. Since June, 2011 – Ron Paul has been to NH 17 days, and Iowa 15 days. That Ron Paul supporters spend too much time on the computer preaching to the choir is true – but that’s the only speck of truth to leave this disgusting piece of human filth’s mouth in this ‘article’.

Well Rex, much as I’d like to get into deep philosophy with you here, I’ve realized it’s pointless anymore. so I’ll will appeal to you on a level you can grasp. The big slogan from the GOP seems to “Anyone But Obama”, so I’ll give you mine, “Give us Ron Paul or we’ll give you Obama”. I’m not voting for a GOP stooge like Romney and if that “costs you the election” well that is your fault. There is no diff between these parties, they are silly and childish things and I vote for what is right no matter the party and you guys better learn to embrace the old notion that the enemy of your enemy is your friend, you need us.