How does it infringe on religious freedoms? By enabling the religious institutions to defer their responsibilities to the private insurance companies? As far as economic freedoms, it violates economic freedoms as much as the Civil Rights Act, which is also something Rand Paul opposes.

The conservatives would be against chocolate, air, water, and God if Obama were somehow connected.

Please it keeps poor women ill, provides the basis for which poor women are perpetually pregnant and increases the likelihood of abortions. Your name sake, Ayn Rand would be very proud of you if she weren’t so busy trying to atone herself out of Purgatory.

Had to laugh at this one, since among other things, libertarians wish to end church tax exempt status all together. As for birth control, it is included in virtually all insurance coverage because it saves the insurance company money (babies are costly). Not providing it is more costly. The Obama compromise places that cost on the insurance company at no cost to the religious employer. So what is the problem? Rand is defending the right of religious employers to deny an employee birth control coverage, even if they are not paying for it. Yes, we do not approve of you using birth control so we want to make sure it is not covered. Sick. Rand is so sold out.  

Agreed, before Rand Paul talks about this infringing on religious & economic freedoms, how about we first cut off the billions the Catholic charities get in federal funding per year? If the Catholic church is going to take billions a year in tax payer money, then they should expect to be regulated.

I disagree Rand….the constitution absolutely affords the authority to the president to unilaterally dictate through an unelected agency what a private orginization must provide.

Doesn’t it?

Besides, since were in the business of providing “rights” to the population free of charge…when is Obama going to start mandating that firearms be provided by private corperations to their workers.

After all, its in the second ammendment……

 Rand: Why wade into the perfect storm of religious rights vs Women’s reproductive freedoms?

The women screaming for Catholic rights would kill for their birth control.

No tax exemptions for religious organizations. Their adherents can make up any difference with their donations.

Republicans voted for a mandate for contracept­ives, including Plan B, in their own health insurance plans (FEHB plans), including the ones currently making the most noise against for political purposes – Rick Santorum, John Boehner, Newt Gingrich, Eric Cantor, Roy Blunt, Mitch McConnell

1998 H.R. 4328, Public Law 105-277

House Republican­s 162 Yea, 64 Nay, 2 did not vote
http://tin­yurl.com/7­qwmp93

Senate Total: 65 Yea, 29 Nay, 2 did not vote,
Senate Republican­s: 32 Yea, 20 Nay, 2 did not vote
http://tin­yurl.com/7­l29csd

The plan include exemptions for five tiny plans for religious objections­.

Extension of contracept­ive coverage
11/12/2001 Became Public Law No: 107-067, H.R.2590

Senate 83 Yea, 15 Nay, 2 did not vote
http://tin­yurl.com/7­4xbfe9

Republican­s 151 Yea, 63 Nay, 6 did not vote
http://tin­yurl.com/6­wfuqql

FEHB plans cover Congress and all federal employees. The current FEHB plans are the same as approved in 1998.

Yes, I agree Catholic schools, hospitals, and universities are a bane on this society and all should be closed down…  Let’s get to work on that.  

They probably would be shut down if not for the money they get from the federal government.

So what’s new about congress voting itself money? I don’t see how this has anything to do with the debate, it is not about majority will as much as it is individual and economic freedom vs the state having the right to direct one’s use of private resources as the state sees fit….  There is no argument that overwhelmingly the people of this country support contraception, that does not necessarily mean that they support the government’s decision that the government will decide who will pay for contraception.  

Well, another poll released today shows 61% in favor of the administration’s position:

h–p://tiny.cc/0quqi

Maybe they figure if they repeat it enough people will eventually agree with them? I am confused as to why they think this a winning issue. As I said before, contraception hasn’t been controversial since 1964. If they think they will win in 2012 on opposing birth control they are idiots.

The real issue is that the election of a Democrat to the executive position infringes on the fundamentalist right to get everything they want. The fundamentalist impulse devolves into constant tantrum when confined by a system of rules.

so If republicans suggested it… its ok but now that Obama suggested it… its bad…

carry on.

That is an interesting perspective, the president has had a hand in setting up this fight as far back as 2009 when he gave these charities substantial sums of money making them more dependent on federal funds and hopefully more compliant to the forthcoming mandates…

Personally I hope that the church holds to its principles, even if it means the closing of schools, hospitals and even universities such as Notre Dame, who needs the Irish anyway, I am a Gator fan.
http://www.au.org/church-state/october-2009-church-state/people-events/conservatives-criticize-catholic-charities%E2%80%99

He did not say that Catholic institutions should be closed down.

I’m all for that. Why should they get $3.1 billion in funding & be able to dictate this nation’s healthcare policies?

What the hell is ‘economic freedom’? 

Could’ve sworn this started before Obama: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/12/politics/main532793.shtml

But, but….   polls are liberally biased!!

as is reality.

Capitalism, man.  Capitalism.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but Rand says that the government shouldn’t be forcing a 75 year old woman to buy health insurance that includes contraceptive measures.  I’m 36, so I’m not all that familiar with medicare, but why would a 75 year old person buy insurance when they can have medicare for free?

I know I did..

I’m pretty sure it has something to do with this…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion

Yes I agree, the government wanted to use an established delivery system to help deliver needed services to the community, and now they want to say that they have the right to control it because they accept federal money, I just thought it interesting that the president was increasing funding back in 2009 as I guess that he saw the good that the churches perform in the communities, maybe it was for more control, or maybe it was his ties to Pfleger who knows…. but the best thing here in my way of thinking is for the church to reject the federal funding and return to the community for their support, or close down their institutions if it comes to that. But I am like 3/4′s libertarian so how could I think any differently? I would go all the way but am wrestling with the whole national defense and total repeal of social programs thing…. really like their principles just having a hard time understanding their application in today’s world..

 No one said to close it down.Just pay like every other American citizen has to. 

 It’s not their responsibility to provide free birth control.

True, a lot of libertarian ideology sounds good to me but in order to be implemented it has to be consistent. Unfortunately with the way our government is run, that seems to be impossible. I do appreciate their anti war & personal civil liberty stances though. But like you said, seems dofficially to apply with all the politics going around.

It’s not their responsibility to provide anything actually. Why get involved in the healthcare industry if you’re not going to provide care for anyone’s health?

And it’s not this man’s right to infringe upon women’s rights.  Rand Paul is a backward, trailer trash man who knows NOTHING.  Only in Kentucky can this kid of loser be elected as a US Senator, or maybe Mississippi and Alabama.  He is shameful….ask him if his wife has ever used BC. 

I hope the GOP continues to push this nonsense….it’s a losing issue for them in November.  Keep it up dummies!

Wow, where to you live…..so out of touch with the issue of women’s health.  Go away, you sound very ignorant.   

Pablo has unique views on this subject since his mother and family attempted to have him aborted several times, even after birth. 

Lol @ your nuanced “free stuff” argument. Clearly someone can’t read XD

 Unless it violate their religious pronciples and their religious freedom doesn’t exist anymore. Then they can just shut it down, like they were forced to do with their evil Godbothering adoption services.

So people are free if capital controls them?

Since when does broaden the tax base mean taxing the lower income? Since the republicans said it!

If he sounds ignorant then you aren’t hearing him properly!

I guess?

Ya and who needs Social Security if you’re rich?

Since the Catholic Church started taking billions of dollars in federal funding & the insurance companies forced us to purchase their services.

pass some infrastructure bills,eliminate carried interest, double capital gains tax, eliminate deductions for high earners, eliminate corporate deductions and then watch unemployment drop, government revenues increase, deficits drop and then debt be paid off—– or leave everything as it is now so the elitists can pad their elitism!

Oh, sorry, I went with facitious. No, removing tax exempt status from churches would require removing it from all not for profits, and frankly, things like the Red Cross should be tax exempt. Churches traditionally do many good things for the community and otherwise benefit our culture in such a way as to justiy tax exempt status. That’s just a given.

Call me back when these people start standing up for the FLDS’s right to practice their religion and I’ll care about this silliness.

You know Don, if you never study Libertarianism then it is easy to dismiss.. But if you study it along with the economic philosophies that are embedded into it as well as this country’s history and changes that occurred in this country during different periods and under different presidents… then maybe it would make more sense to you.. and maybe even if you disagree with differing political opinion with a deeper understanding you might become a little more respectful of that point of view.

Without these breaks, most communities would be far more down-trodden than they currently are.

It means the suppliers can do whatever they want & the consumers just have to accept it or jump off a pier.

I don’t know why you posted that. Most of the people who oppose birth control on this board don’t even have the attention span to actually read the Mediaite article, watch the accompanying video, or even stay on topic.

So according to the nutcase Rand Paul, providing women options is same as taking away their freedom. And the low IQ Conservatives/Tea Baggers/Republicans believe him.

There is no other developed country in the world where contraception is a controversial topic.

Republicans = Big Government that is constantly in your bedroom

Stuff like this is why libertarians cannot win major elections. It’s an outdated philosophy that really lost its place in the world before it was even created.

Maybe not being familiar with the particular legislation and since you links don’t work…  it could be that I misread your post, I am not sure if you are talking about national legislation or legislation only effecting their own plans…  regardless it matters little to me if the republicans support it or not.  Their support does not make it right or wrong, constitutional support for this mandate is however important, and I personally am not convinced that it is there.  My disagreement is not only the religious objection, but just as importantly to me I object to the federal governments mandate on defining the insurance benefits which private employers extend to their employees.  So your “facts”  are unimportant to my objections to the mandate.  

Boo hoo, that’s socialist talk.

OK, ladies – there is a point where the buck stops rolling.  The women of this country need to get together.  For the boys who like sex but who believe in no birth control?  Guess what – it’s the Armstrong method from here on in.  Take your sperm and shove it!

Hmmm  I am pretty certain that it can be explained in this…

http://mises.org/document/6785/Economics-in-One-Lesson 

I agree with you. Just thought I’d point out something for readers.
Annual cost of Viagra $7954.00
Annual cost of Apri         $14.96  Generic form of Desogen, BC Pills.

I’d bet that the Church want to pay for Viagra.

Rand Paul will be President in 2016.  2016 can’t get here soon enough.

LOL

Funny. Seems like the “progressive” welfare state is the outdated philosophy seeing as how Europe is on the brink of economic collapse from bottomless spending and entitlements and the US is rapidly approaching the same fate. I seriously can’t believe how deep leftists have their heads buried in the sand on this. Pick up an economics book for God’s sake.

Liberal Mentality: Access to contraceptives afforded on someone else’s dime > religious convictions and liberty > economic choice. 

Women have a choice. They can go into any pharmacy in the country and buy contraceptives as they please. When did choice and liberty somehow become equated with requring others under penalty of law to buy or provide a good or service to someone else. You have absolutely no idea what liberty and freedom are.

Winning the White House is a little different than winning in Kentucky. He would never get elected he is too extreme.  

How ridonculous. Americans have never needed bearded foreign born intellectuals to tell them to get angry about their government. The Austrian conceit currently bubbling on the right is about the need for exotic justification…old wine in new casks.

It was part of the insurance plan.  It was required by law in 25 states.  

The Banksters brought it down.  

You know, there IS a way to prevent any employer from being mandated to provide coverage for anything with which s/he disagrees, and to maintain the access of all individuals to basic services - it’s called single payer.

It is part of the preventative health care that was passed into LAW by Congress as part of the health care reform bill, Pablo.  By law, if a health care insurance wants to sell insurance it must provide free contraceptive because it is the LAW.  But you assume it should be the right of a religion to deny the rights of an individual to have that choice.  Gee, I thought you conservatives or libertarians… whatever you are… was all about personal freedom to make personal choices.  (I guess that applies  when it suits you.)  Explain to me Pablo in your infinite wisdom (yes, I am patronizing) and not some quote from a website, but in your own words… why are you against this freedom of individual choice as well as bringing the costs of health care down which is the whole point of preventative health care? 

Germany is doing fine, Canada is doing fine, Australia is doing fine. Name me a successful libertarian state. Afghanistan? The Congo? Gaza strip? South Sudan? Current state of Libya perhaps?

“Pick up an economics book for God’s sake.”

Coming from the party that has for thirty years preached the utter irrelevance of the purchasing power of the middle class (i.e. “demand”), I find this comment to be almost unbearably ironic. 

Health insurance covers health care.  A pregnancy and subsequent delivery cost a whole lot more in insurance costs than $50 bucks a month for pills.  If there is a C-section, the costs fly a way higher.  Think a bit before you post.

He probably came out with a grin on his face and the pill in his hand.

Did the Kool-aid taste gooood, SH?

Libertarianism is thriving in Latin America, the Middle East, & Subsaharan Africa where drug cartels, terrorists, & warlords call the shots. I would take an economic decline over that anyday.

These people are being herded like sheep over an irelevant issue simply to make a voting block for the GOP which is only puppet of the Religious Right.  Want a Christo-Taliban?  Vote GOP

Conservative mentality = take away birth control then cry about abortions. Who cares if the American population soars over a billion? China & India could deal with it so why can’t we?

Bottom line:  The catholic church doesn’t want birth control for ANYONE.  Where in their blessed scripture is this?  Spilling seed on the ground?  In that case, every sperm is holy and masturbation (especially in the case of priests) should be grounds for arrest.

If their adherents can make up the difference in donations, then let them.

True, but the Republicans rejected that plan & came up with a mandated system.

Laughable, and just who was Keynes the hero of modern liberal economics???? Oh, that’s right a contemporary and colleague of Hayek, who’s “Treatise on Money” so destroyed Keynes theories that

“Keynes replied that the Treatise no longer reflected his thinking. After reading Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom, Keynes[96] wrote to Hayek saying: “Morally and philosophically I find myself in agreement with virtually the whole of it”

But alas you are right, we now have our own bearded little “Keynesian” American economist like Krugmann to carry forward that great and deeply intellectual Keynesian thought.

The church doesn’t supply even ONE GOOD if the bottom line isn’t that either you are a Catholic or you are a conversion victim/ prospect.

Oh, this reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from an economist whose name I cannot recall, about how examples of libertarian utopias – places with low taxes, minimal government services, minimal government regulation, few to no gun control laws – are very much in existence, and can most reliably be found in Sub Saharan Africa.

Francis Fukyama makes a similar point in his book The Origins of Political Order: ” “Many parts of sub-Saharan Africa are a libertarian’s paradise.  The right-wing dream of eliminating the state – as embodied in Grover Norquist’s wish to shrink the U.S. government to the point where it can be drowned in a bathtub – does not magically lead to a world governed by market relations. At best, it leads to the tyranny of cousins in small communities, which at least has the virtue of being semi-egalitarian. At worst, it leads to the domination of the weak by the strong, as less powerful tribes are constantly under threat of death or enslavement by the warlords of more powerful ones.”

There are many non-religious organizations who aren’t out for conversion but to do good just because it is the thing to do.  They aren’t out to enrich themselves as the church does.
Red Cross, United Nations Children’s Fund, Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières, Oxfam International, United Way, Cansave., Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Big Brothers and Sister, Easter Seal Foundation, Cancer Society, Council for Secular Humanism

No it means to get rich at the expense of everyone else, totally unfettered by any regulations.

Uh yeah because the debate is about banning contraceptive altogether. Apples and assholes buddy.

So is Obama and he got elected.

If you guys want to force women to pay for BC from their own pockets, why wouldn’t you ban BC completely in the future? Slippery slope argument doesn’t seem so nice when it’s not being used to deny same sex couples equal marriage rights, does it?

I guess I stand corrected, libertarianism does have a place in the world.

Hong Kong, Singapore, and Switzerland are good examples of countries and territories that embrace libertarian ideals. There is no such thing as purely libertarian society just as there is no such thing as a purely socialist, communist, capitalist, etc. society. 

Liberals love to make some futile comparison to third world nations like Somalia, Sudan, etc. as libertarian examples. The fact is these nations have governments with laws but the simple matter is they are in the shape they are due to poverty not because of their lack of regulations.  

I, unlike yourself, do not feel I have to belong to one of the major two parties. Typical liberal making unwarranted assumptions.

That’s more akin to anarchy.

If by “banksters,” you mean government run central banks then I agree.

 Do you mean like they force a pharmacist to provide his services to anyone?, or how a doctor is required to stop and assist in an emergency? or how police have to provide you with services whether they want to or not? or how the county registrars office has to provide you with services as a mandate of law? the post man even if dose not like you? a schoolteacher *this one keeps tripping some conservative teachers up* has to do her job for every student?

I am a woman and I can tell you for an absolute fact that you have to have a prescription for contraceptives and being denied contraceptive coverage and services means the doctor cant even write you the prescription you need to get them.

and the courts have had o force pharmacists to provide them over their moral or religious objections to doing so, right wing conservatives do not have a right to impose their morals on my needs as a woman, and this is a matter of my being at liberty to do as I choose and i have a right to the freedom contraceptives offer me.

nor do you have the right to tell me or anyone what our ideals of freedom and liberty are that is something we each have to decide for ourselves.

I don’t think you understand my position. The seeds of the current debate predate any of that. The modern moonshiner is much more animated by the American spirit of independence than the most esteemed libertarian P.H.D.

No, not so, plenty of people show up at Catholic hospitals or in their schools and universities who are not Catholic and have no intention of conversion…. wasn’t it just a month or so ago that the liberal media was attacking the church for having religious symbols on campus that may be offensive to Muslims? Was there not a big uproar about forcing these Catholic Universities to provide Muslim chapels? If you read about the history of hospitals in this country you may be surprised to learn that they were started by private charities of which the Catholic church was one to take care of and provide medical care to the poor and indigent of this country long before the larger medical community and government considered the necessity of hospitals.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, so easy to see the water once lead to the trough.. Me thinks that you are watching to much Discovery Channel..

The only thing that is being accomplished by allowing the government to impose more regulations is that more regulations will be written that favor special corporate interests at the expense of others. Congress is essentially a corporate proxy, and these regulations are rigging the game in favor of certain very powerful special interests. This whole liberal premise that the federal government is our last line of defense against the tyranny of big business is a naieve fairy tale. Liberal demands for more regulations are really just empowering corporate interests even more since they are essentially writing the regulations through lobbyists, campaign donations, etc. Ironic.

If you notice my initial post concerned the Whiskey Rebellion under Washington. Mock the connecting strand if you will. It marks you as a serious thinker. Austrian type seriousness. The best kind.

You’re missing the point. Firstly, your comparisons in the first paragraph are non-sensical and downright ridiculous. Those are all professions that have job responsibilties connected to them, and there is no federal mandate requiring people to be police officers, pharmacists, and postal workers.

The Court has ruled there is a constitutional protection to use contraceptions so this hysteria that people are going to be denied access to birth control is groundless. Conservative morals aren’t being forced on anybody. Liberal values are being forced on others, THAT’S THE ISSUE. People are saying they want religious institutions to pay for access to things that are considered sins and violate their religious teachings or face legal penalties. What do you think that is?

Under your logic, the government should pass a law mandating ALL employers to require any workers to work on the sabbath. As a result, everything should shut down on saturdays and sundays so people can attend their respective house of worship. Afterall, absent a law like this, employers would be imposing their beliefs on others by requiring them to work on the sabbath.

i have been thinking about this plan of the right wing conservatives to allow companies and corporations to refuse contraceptive coverage and services.

  with most of the pharmacy services being controlled by about a dozen companies then they do not have to take the next step and legislatively ban contraceptives.

 they, the right wing conservatives, just have to pressure a pharmacy services corporation to object to providing them and use the access to the boards ,komen like, to get them to do it from the top, a very small group to pressure and there are very few places where independently owned pharmacies exist any more.

 so right wing conservatives just have to pressure conservatively controlled Walmart -maybe what? 5000 stop doing it?, conservatively controlled CVS 5000 there, the board of a food services conglomerate with pharmacy services and BOOM they are gone from 10 different chains of various names and thousands of stores stop providing contraceptives, rite aid boom no services for contraceptives,Etc.Etc.Etc.

 and all the while the right wing conservatives just have to say there is a place for women to get them if there pharmacy stops providing them, effectively ending access to contraceptives nation wide.

The US CHAMBER OF COMMERCE WILL MOVE THIS FOR THE REPUBLICANS TO GET CONCESSIONS ON REGULATIONS AND TAXES, the 700 club will extort 100,000s to pressure corporate boards, Phlox will scream at people for hours on end to go after this company or that company, Bill O’Riely will be calling on people to hound locally owned pharmacies and call them out on the air by name to focus christian conservatives on them.

 if they get this right to refuse and reject based on morals or religious convictions then they will have laid the foundation for an out right ban without enecting a ban on contraceptives legislativly and they can claim its not there fault no one wants to provide contraceptives.

Or women can tell you to go and FO and let you do whatever  you please.  They just haven’t realized that if the guys dictate whether they get the contraceptives it’s up to the guys to please themselves.  Beat on one – you beat on them all – and together they are a formidable force,being over half the population.

I should have taken the time to look a little closer at the link.. very fitting.

Well said.

Yeah, that’s not how a slippery slope argument is argued. LOL, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

So in order for libertarianism to be successful, socialism is required.

 i think your wrong and you are just sounding reasonable, libertarians today seem to be the legalize drugs wing of the republican party and at the few Liberian type events i have been to in the past couple of years there have been to many libertarians in name only, they act and talk right wing conservative but do not actually support core libertarian beliefs which are very moderate socially and those people have been pushed aside, i have been registered as an independent for more than 5 years now and will vote for my own best interests this fall and that right now is almost a straight ticket for democrats, i was registered as a libertarian but they became to right wing and i miss true libertarians they were fun people but going to events is like being at the few ultraconservative and republican events i have attended. they say that the right wing conservatives and the christian conservatives and the business conservatives hijacked the republican party well it looks like they got the Tea party and the libertarians also

you have to be conservative and extrem right wing to be heard and there is no place in that for me.

That was just painful having to read that, Denise. There is NO mainstream push to ban contraceptives. Stop wasting our time with your demogogurey. Contraceptives have been available for decades and now all of a sudden its very access is in jeopardy if Catholics don’t provide them. LMAO.

Switzerland is libertarian? Glad to know that libertarians accept universal healthcare

Conservative version of Denise and SatanicHamster, “I want employers to pay for my Bible and children’s religious education. By God, if they don’t, it will spell the end of religious freedom in this country. The next step is liberals will ban religion altogether. Sound the alarm ommagodommagod”

 stop twisting things up  you know that conservatives are now pushing aright to object to coverage and sevices for ALL EMPLOYERS and organizations including insurance companies, and if they get it there will be a push by the right wing conservatives to use the public and the controlling boards of companies to object to providing contraceptives at pharmacys and they use all there various private sector means to do so, super pacs will be formed to push this as an issue focusing on getting the private sector to do what courts and voters will not let them get away with.

No one is expecting Catholics to provide them. We have a system to provide them if Catholic institutions don’t feel comfortable with it. Problem is that conservatives oppose that as well.

Actually it is, I suggest you read up on the slippery slope argument.

I fail to see your point, if you even have one.

To SatanicHamster, At this point, you’re just spouting out non-sensical gibberish.

 Iceland.

That’s your choice. I’m for the ability to choose your beliefs (even wrong ones) and not imposing those beliefs on others unlike today’s leftists.

He’s moderate, you’re just drinking the extreme Kool-Aid.  

central banks are independent of governments  except China and Muslim countries and countries with what they call a central bank which is really a state or national bank with the government in control of it that is why some countries in europe are pushing to regulate the central banks and even both the Pauls want to gain some government control over the fed here. And Banksters refers to criminal bank CEOs and boards of private sector banks, don’t claim the government runs banks here, and do not claim that Obama runs them either, if he had control of the banks they would be modifying loans and he would have saved private home ownership.in this country.

you like to confuse things with sounds good stuff that does not work and when that dose not work you demean and belittle others for not getting down on their knees and proclaiming you the ruler of all.

Re-read what I just wrote. I didn’t say they were totally libertarian. Their system of government and some of the rights enjoyed by the Swiss are libertarian especially when compared to their neighbors: non-interventionist foreign policy, right to bear arms, strong federal system with good checks and balances on its central government, and low tax rates. Furthermore, I’m not against a single payer system in prinicpal as long as people have the option to opt out. It’s the mandated system pushed by the current administration that I feel is objectionable.

They Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers were not government run.  

Pro party no country & no concept of reality. Libertarianism in a nutshell.

The point IS, frankie, that men have sex with women, and if not – it’s the Armstrong method.  No birth control  – no sex.  Have fun with “jack”.  If women got together in a group, getting contraception would be a snap.

Religion and politics have a symbiotic relationship going back thousands of years.

Canada did very well with regulations and as a result in in a very much better financial position than the US.  The proof is in the pudding frankie.

When Hillary proposed the public option in 1994, it was labeled as socialist & rejected. The conservative think tanks came up with this mandated system which was promoted as a private solution of expanding coverage . When Obama adopts that system, that’s socialism as well. I’m sorry, but conservatives had really lost all credibility from me when it comes to providing healthcare coverage to the populace after this. There is a crisis in this country when it comes to healthcare & all conservatives are doing is creating problems.

 they proved services in there fields and if you choose to be a police or a postman or a pharmacist then you do become subject to mandates of law.

having a right USE contraceptives is one thing being able to get contraceptives and contraceptive service is another and you know it, this will allow companies to not provide BC or services for contraceptive needs and this is about preventing religins from interfering in the relationship of a woman and the insurance company by forbiding the insurance company to provide or meet the needs for BC and contraceptive services, and you keep saying and using religion when it is clear and provable that now republicans are saying any company and any employer can object to providing BC for women

stop making false argumnts and your third pargraph is gooble-d-gook

“Frankie?” What are you 12? You are frivilous. Birth control is readily accessible and it doesn’t have to be mandated to obtain it. Abortion is not mandated either yet it is also readily accessible. Your last point is just the epitomy of stupidity. Only fanatical leftists (probably most of which are men) are getting themselves whipped in a frenzy over this. Your average everyday woman is not centering her very feminity over this issue and has easy access to birth control.  

Just how inbred is this guy?

To lorasinger: the proof is in the puddin’ that you are logically disabled. As for Canada, its single payer system is having problems and reforms are being called for, most recently by a prominent member of a Canadian health organization. Besides you point to one country as a complete validation of the welfare state while the majority of them are facing financial disaster? Run along now.

Your medical care takes place on other peoples dime, frankie. 

It is goobledy gook because it is based on the same logic that you are using to argue in favor of mandated birth control. You can’t see that because you are arguing totally on emotion and can’t use simple rational thinking. 

What would you call that entire paragraph you just wrote:

“religins;” “and you keep saying and using religion when it is clear and provable that now republicans are saying any company and any employer can object to providing BC for women.” <—— Grammar like this is the product of federal mandates in education. 
There are plenty of avenues for people to obtain contraception without costly blanket mandates. They can purchase their own insurance, work at an employer that provides insurance that covers it, or pay out of pocket. There is no mandate that insurance cover abortion, yet I don't hear anyone crying that their freedom of choice is under assault. On the flip side there is also NO law banning insurance providers from covering abortion or birth control.

I know you know this, but you're more interested in shoving your demands down people's throats and demogoguing.

Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers have nothing to do with the Eurozone Crisis. I’m referring to the Fed and the EU Central Bank. BUT MY MISTAKE, you like those banks.

Republican idea or not, it doesn’t change the fact that the mandated insurance system is a pile of crap. One the Democrats once whole heartedly rejected and now embrace so they are also lacking in credibility.

“I’m all about freedom of thought and fiscal responsibility unless it get’s in the way of me getting free stuff,”: Liberalism in a  NUTshell

Not the poverty-stricken women who cannot afford either the medication or the health insurance and CERTAINLY not another child.

Never said I’m about fiscal responsibility. Our debt actually doesn’t bother me one bit.

Philosophically he is not. He has been forced to govern more moderately than he would like due to our great system of checks and balances that were put in place to protect us from leaders like Obama.

You’re just desperate now. You should go pick up a book and educate yourself. You have a ways to go to understand how real life works.

At least they’re trying to solve the problem. Republicans are just being trolls.

Frivolous argument after frivolous argument.

I’m at the upper length of life, Franklin, and I’m not desperate.  I’ve had a srufeit of education too.  Perhaps, Frankie, you are in that segment of life where you are 20 and ashamed of how dumb your old man is and then at 21, you’re surprised at how much the old man has learned in one year.

A GED is not a surfeit, that’s s-U-R-f-e-i-t, of education. Just FYI.

You are hopelessly beyond reach. The Fed is a government created bank made up of government appointees that mandate interest rates (no wonder liberals like these banks!!). They have a lot of independence to make decisions without much government oversight much like government administrative agencies but they are still government entities.

What prominent member, Frankie?  One of Hier Harpler’s crowd of “get rid of health care cause we don’t believe in it” crowd?

Another pig rapist attempts to appeal to impressionable right wingers.

That is not fair since the adherents are giving their money, which is theirs already after tax, as a donation, without receiving anything tangible in return. There is no taxable event happening there. And to the communities benefit, much of that money is spent or given away locally. That’s a good thing. And you can not legally take away church non profit tax exemption without removing it for all non profits. And that would suck since many of those organizations are fully charitable and greatly beneficial to our culture.

I just hope the Rrrs keep up this insane position all thru this election season.

Taxpayers should not be funding Catholic Charities.  The Catholic church is rich beyond belief….they should pay taxes…..

No church should be able to dictate the Nation’s policies  There is supposed to be a separation of church and state.. 

Actually the scripture they refer to has nothing to do with spilling seed on the ground , It refers to the fact that Onan, I believe, did not raise up seed to his brother’s wife as was the custom in that day for a woman who had lost her husband. .

No, it isn’t.

Someone has to  pay for it.  Who do you suggest ?

Where do you get free Medicare ?  I’m 80 and I pay for it.  My insurer will not accept me if I don’t have Medicare which I don’t need.

How are you violating your religious teachings or principles if you, yourself do not use contraception ?  The Church is not paying for it, the Insurance company is.

Why does someone have to pay for it? Who’s paying for it now, when did birth control become a right endowed by our creator…. Is the constitution meaningless in the modern era?

Wrong.  We mean Bank of America banks,, Wells Fargo banks, Chase and the like practicing fraud and deceit on the American people.

I agree, it’s obviously for profit. So sick of religious charities making billions & claiming to not be for profit. It’s all a scam.

Clement of Alexandria, while not making explicit reference to Onan, similarly reflects an early Christian view of the abhorrence of ‘”spilling seed’”:
“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted”]

Forcing anyone to pay for someone else’s birth control is, in itself, socialism. It is not my, or anyone else’s responsibility.

You could argue that everything is socialism then.