Says, the little boy with chocolate on his hands and smeared across his face who denies he ate the cooling Toll House Cookies. Krappy softball interview, George. Almost as fawning as Van Susteren.

Public employee unions on the way out .

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/end_public_sector_unionsperiod.html

Even Joe Klein gets it .

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/

Walker should do a Reagan and fire everyone of their asses.
There are damn good qualified teachers all over the country
that would be willing to relocate to Wisconsin for far less
salary and not worry about some crooked ass union taking a slice!
Announce it Gov and watch their sorry asses march back to the schools
first thing in the morning!

Probably NOT wrong said:
Walker should do a Reagan and fire everyone of their asses.
There are damn good qualified teachers all over the country
that would be willing to relocate to Wisconsin for far less
salary and not worry about some crooked ass union taking a slice!
Announce it Gov and watch their sorry asses march back to the schools
first thing in the morning!

What a good model to suggest. Raygun in a moment of utter hubris put at risk every American flying in US airspace. Walker, in a moment of hubris, ought to risk the education of a generation of Wisconsin children. Well, that logical is unassailable.

Announce it Gov. Give them a History Lesson!
It will be a damn Stampede of teachers getting to
those classrooms in the morning!

Why not? “Collective bargaining” with government workers is a farce. In the private sector, the unions and management engage in bargaining from an adversarial relationship in that the unions try to obtain greater income and benefits at the expense of the company. In the public sector, on the other hand, the unions merely have to get other government workers to agree to give them more of the taxpayers’ money. Dems give the unions what they want, thus effectively buying the union workers’ votes. It’s a corrupt system that should be abolished.

The unions are no more corrupt than the big corporations that the Republicans worship.

The Real Royal King said:
Says, the little boy with chocolate on his hands and smeared across his face who denies he ate the cooling Toll House Cookies. Krappy softball interview, George. Almost as fawning as Van Susteren.

Ummmm… and those teachers are really “sick”. And those Dr.s are really “examining” those pt’s for those sick notes. And at least Mr. Walker is still in the state to do his job and NOT shut down the WI govt.

Go Scott… bring truth to power. ;)

BlackWidow said:
The unions are no more corrupt than the big corporations that the Republicans worship.

Sooooo. You’re say they ARE corrupt??? Thank you.

Always disheartening to read how Americans so despise police officers, fire fighters, teachers and any other hard-working men and women merely trying to support their families and themselves. No wonder the American Middle Class disappeared. Other Middle Classers ate them.

Gov. Walker is a hero, people will ask him to run against Obama once this is over. Shame on the Unions for their greediness.

They buy into the right’s line of crap like it will really benefit them. It is hard to believe people will vote against their own well being because they can’t think for themselves and believe the right’s line of BS. Right before this a-hole of a gov started to wage his war on unions, he gave a bunch of tax incentives to business. If your state is in trouble, how do you cut off your revenue source and then ask the people that can least afford it to give up their rights. If you’ve seen any of the interviews with the union people, they are willing to give back to help the state, but not give up their rights to collective bargaining. This governor is as full of it as the rest of his party, and this was all calculated to go this way, they just didn’t expect the big protests and the nationwide coverage. The national media should be all over this, but we know who controls them. You know how to tell if a republican is lieing?? Their lips are moving..

TangledThorns said:
Gov. Walker is a hero, people will ask him to run against Obama once this is over. Shame on the Unions for their greediness.

Indeed, Walker is in a class of politicians, stretching from Raygun onward, desirous of making America mediocre. I’m sure those who cherish mediocrity will flock to him.

This guys is talking straight and the Libs don’t like it.

The days of unethical unions with their degenerate bullies and their corrupt collective bargaining rights are coming to an end, and it’s long overdue.

The Real Royal King said:
Always disheartening to read how Americans so despise police officers, fire fighters, teachers and any other hard-working men and women merely trying to support their families and themselves. No wonder the American Middle Class disappeared. Other Middle Classers ate them.

How do we despise them??? We want them to get a fair wage and fair benefits. Not pay and benefits that bankrupt the state and require more money to be taken from tax payers. I got very highly educated and therefor was able to aqure a job that requires my employer to pay me above the national average because not many people do what I do or put in the time for the education. I sacrificed in my youth to gain in my adult years (still have the student loans to prove it ;)). These folks seem to be will to watch the people be taxed more to get them what they want. Not because people NEED to pay them that muck (others would do the job at less money) but because they are able to blackmail the taxpayers into giving them more. “Leave us alone or we’ll go on a illegal sick-out as a group”.

This reminds me of a situation we have going on here in St. Louis. Albert wants a truckload of money. I would LOVE to keep him as a player but am not willing to give him so much that it hurts the team. There is only so much you should pay your first baseman even if it’s Albert. The Rangers payed Alex R. a quarter of a billion dollars and look what happened to them. they sacrificed the entire team to keep one player. I DON’T want my team to do that. If he wants to stay here and get paid a a$$load of money, than I would love for him to be here. If he want to get paid SO much that it jeperdises the TEAM than I hope we let him go and stay a strong group of players. Same with the unions in WI. I want them to get paid a good fair wage. In your opinion (I’m guessing here) the skies the limit. To me they need to come back down to earth.

Probably NOT wrong said:
Walker should do a Reagan and fire everyone of their asses.
There are damn good qualified teachers all over the country
that would be willing to relocate to Wisconsin for far less
salary and not worry about some crooked ass union taking a slice!
Announce it Gov and watch their sorry asses march back to the schools
first thing in the morning!

The GOP had a great election in 2010 on the fact that unemployment continued to be a problem. I don’t see how firing people is something Walker sees as palatable.

On a perhaps unrelated note, whenever I see and hear all this talk about “being broke” and “tough cuts,” I can’t help but think…….thank god we kept that tax cut for rich people.

TangledThorns said:
Gov. Walker is a hero, people will ask him to run against Obama once this is over. Shame on the Unions for their greediness.

How are they greedy when they conceded to pay into their retirements and health benefits and he turns that down? He is the greedy one, as he does not want to give an inch. He’s crying poor but turned this down. It’s more than obvious to anyone with half a brain his whole intent is to bust the unions. If you agree with busting the unions, fine but don’t perpetuate the lie, that the union in this case is greedy.

And for the rest of you Einsteins that think the public unions are the problem, why don’t you do some research of your own instead of listening to some of your head sheep. There are a least a half dozen states that are in worse shape than Wisconsin and they are not union states. So how do you explain that? All the corporate and upper 1% tax breaks in conjunction with all the jobs that have been shipped out of the country shrinking our tax base even more. You can’t start two wars AND give the upper echelon and corps huge tax breaks and expect anything different to happen. It’s past the time to wake up people. And unless you are one of those upper 1%’ers or some big corp that sucks us dry, it will eventually catch up to you.

tatboy said:
Not pay and benefits that bankrupt the state and require more money to be taken from tax payers. I got very highly educated and therefor was able to aqure a job that requires my employer to pay me above the national average because not many people do what I do or put in the time for the education. I sacrificed in my youth to gain in my adult years (still have the student loans to prove it ;)). These folks seem to be will to watch the people be taxed more to get them what they want. Not because people NEED to pay them that muck (others would do the job at less money) but because they are able to blackmail the taxpayers into giving them more. “Leave us alone or we’ll go on a illegal sick-out as a group”.

You seem to be missing the fact that they conceded and will pay into their health benefits and retirement. And they like you went to college to become teachers and many of them continue taking courses to keep up to date. Teachers are very important factor in society and are also the most underpaid proffesionals. Many have to use their own money to buy supplies and spend an inordinate time of their own at home working on their teaching plans and grading papers. They spend time during the summer in the schools as well. I know this as a fact, due to I have a very close friend that is a teacher.

Kat said:
You seem to be missing the fact that they conceded and will pay into their health benefits and retirement. And they like you went to college to become teachers and many of them continue taking courses to keep up to date. Teachers are very important factor in society and are also the most underpaid proffesionals. Many have to use their own money to buy supplies and spend an inordinate time of their own at home working on their teaching plans and grading papers. They spend time during the summer in the schools as well. I know this as a fact, due to I have a very close friend that is a teacher.

#1. My mother has been a teacher for 30+ years and I have actually sat through teacher union meetings as a child when my mom couldn’t afford the babysitter. I know the teachers union better than most. They are NOT about the kids. It’s about benifits for them and protecting their intrist only, like EVARY union. They need to stop saying “It’s about the kids” because it is a lie

#2. You didn’t read everything I wrote. I went to college and obtaind a skill that made me MARKETABLE. I do some that not many people do. So if my hospital wants me to do it that have to pay me a reasonable amount of compensation or I’ll go to another hospital. These teachers did not get a skill that is rare and marketable. There are a LOT of people that graduate with majors in education. therefor thay are less maketable and (should) get paid what the market will bare.

Lefter than Ewe said:
They buy into the right’s line of crap like it will really benefit them. It is hard to believe people will vote against their own well being because they can’t think for themselves and believe the right’s line of BS. Right before this a-hole of a gov started to wage his war on unions, he gave a bunch of tax incentives to business. If your state is in trouble, how do you cut off your revenue source and then ask the people that can least afford it to give up their rights. If you’ve seen any of the interviews with the union people, they are willing to give back to help the state, but not give up their rights to collective bargaining. This governor is as full of it as the rest of his party, and this was all calculated to go this way, they just didn’t expect the big protests and the nationwide coverage. The national media should be all over this, but we know who controls them. You know how to tell if a republican is lieing?? Their lips are moving..

Yes, although the Governor’s strategy is very well thought-out that doesn’t make it right. The Republicans already control most of the economy (through the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.) Now they are trying to take-over the state and local governments.

The Governor wants to be a Republican hero like Ronald Reagan:

http://redwriteblue.blog.com/2011/02/09/the-american-pyramid/

BlackWidow said:
The unions are no more corrupt than the big corporations that the Republicans worship.

The Republicans though already control most of the economy (through the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.) Now they are trying to take-over the state and local goverments:

http://redwriteblue.blog.com/2011/02/09/the-american-pyramid/

tatboy said:
#2. You didn’t read everything I wrote. I went to college and obtaind a skill that made me MARKETABLE. I do some that not many people do.

Yes I did. And that is great for you. Teaching is a proffession that requires many people to do it. And it is an admirable one. If it wasn’t for a teacher you would not have been able to learn that marketable skill you have. How difficult is that to explain. You probably make more money than the person that taught you how to do it. To me that is shameful. And explain to me that if you were young enough to need a babysitter just how did you actually understand everything in those meetings?

TangledThorns said:
Walker is a hero, people will ask him to run against Obama once this is over.

Yes, I imagine that some REALLY stupid people will do just that…and that would be AWESOME!

Kat said:
Yes I did. And that is great for you. Teaching is a proffession that requires many people to do it. And it is an admirable one. If it wasn’t for a teacher you would not have been able to learn that marketable skill you have. How difficult is that to explain. You probably make more money than the person that taught you how to do it. To me that is shameful. And explain to me that if you were young enough to need a babysitter just how did you actually understand everything in those meetings?

And they should get paid a reasonable wage that the market will bare. Why should they get paid/compensated MORE than the market will bare??? And my mom as been talking about the actions of the teachers union for 30+ years. I was listening. :).

P.S. My grandfather on my dad’s side was a union boss for the local truckers union in Kansas City in the 40′s and 50′s. I don’t want to tell you the horrific story he told. He and my father didn’t see eye-to-eye on such things. If you want I can recount some of his stories he regailed us with. ;)

tatboy said:
And they should get paid a reasonable wage that the market will bare. Why should they get paid/compensated MORE than the market will bare???

Why do CEOs and such get paid millions of dollars in salaries and bonus checks when their companies are in trouble? And you don’t see an inheirant problem with that?

For the record many years went by that I also thought that in this day and age unions were no longer necessary. But in the last 10 years or so I see more and more they are needed. Not so much for more money, but for the simple fact of trying to preserve the jobs here at home that aren’t already outsourced and trying hard as they will to bring back jobs that have been eliminated. And also trying to preserve the full time jobs as many large companies are now only hiring part timers with no benefits at all. To me this is very unamerican to outsource jobs instead of keeping them home where the american people need them. I’m sure you will blame this on the unions and their bargaining of higher wages. It’s kind of a catch 22. If they didn’t bargain for higher wages most people would still be making only minimum wage which we all know is poverty wages. I would agree to a point that at some point the bargaining for wage increases becomes a bit on the side of greed. Also the union where I work has agreed to a no strike clause, which has actually worked out well for all involved. We are to let the union do the bargaining no matter how long it takes. And we do not miss work nor does the company come to a halt. We can protest on our own time if we choose. Which hardly happened over the 20 years I have worked there.

tatboy said:
And they should get paid a reasonable wage that the market will bare. Why should they get paid/compensated MORE than the market will bare??? And my mom as been talking about the actions of the teachers union for 30+ years. I was listening. :).

P.S. My grandfather on my dad’s side was a union boss for the local truckers union in Kansas City in the 40’s and 50’s. I don’t want to tell you the horrific story he told. He and my father didn’t see eye-to-eye on such things. If you want I can recount some of his stories he regailed us with. ;)

This has nothing to do with what’s happening in Wisconsin. Please stop painting the world with your limited and narrow opinion.

P.S. I happen to believe that public servants such as teachers, fire fighters and police are grossly underpaid for the services they supply to all of us. I make more money that most of them as well. Which is also shameful to me.

. “Every time I tried to do something sensible to balance our budget without laying people off, the unions said no.”

Hmmm, Who’d have guessed the Unions would be the new part of “No” and The Tea Party the party of “Yes we can…”

A man without a Country said:
This has nothing to do with what’s happening in Wisconsin. Please stop painting the world with your limited and narrow opinion.

How so… please explain and put together a thought. Don’t just throw out red meat for the knuckle draggers.

zumpano said:
WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!

How about giving them as long as you gave the Dems… :).

Hugo Daun said:
Yes, I imagine that some REALLY stupid people will do just that…and that would be AWESOME!

We should print up some “I’m Stupid, and I’m With Walker” bumper stickers. We’d make a fortune.

Maybe “Can’t Walker and Chew Gum at the Same Time”.

There was a referendum last November in WI on this very issue. The unions overwhelmingly LOST. The people of WI spoke in Nov. These people speaking now are sore losers.

conflag said:
There was a referendum last November in WI on this very issue. The unions overwhelmingly LOST. The people of WI spoke in Nov. These people speaking now are sore losers.

Can you reference any polls establishing that a majority of Badgers voted for Walker because he was going to bust the unions?

This week’s Republican/Tea Party Dream Team: Christie/Walker 2012.

Formerly: Jindall/Pawlenty, Palin/West, Huckabee/Daniels, Brown/O’Donnell, Santorum/Demented.

Coming soon: Ryan/Whitman.

Coming November 2012: Romney/Huntsman.

Kat said:
Why do CEOs and such get paid millions of dollars in salaries and bonus checks when their companies are in trouble? And you don’t see an inheirant problem with that? For the record many years went by that I also thought that in this day and age unions were no longer necessary. But in the last 10 years or so I see more and more they are needed. Not so much for more money, but for the simple fact of trying to preserve the jobs here at home that aren’t already outsourced and trying hard as they will to bring back jobs that have been eliminated. And also trying to preserve the full time jobs as many large companies are now only hiring part timers with no benefits at all. To me this is very unamerican to outsource jobs instead of keeping them home where the american people need them. I’m sure you will blame this on the unions and their bargaining of higher wages. It’s kind of a catch 22. If they didn’t bargain for higher wages most people would still be making only minimum wage which we all know is poverty wages. I would agree to a point that at some point the bargaining for wage increases becomes a bit on the side of greed. Also the union where I work has agreed to a no strike clause, which has actually worked out well for all involved. We are to let the union do the bargaining no matter how long it takes. And we do not miss work nor does the company come to a halt. We can protest on our own time if we choose. Which hardly happened over the 20 years I have worked there.

No I don’t agree with CEO’s getting paid when a company does bad. I am REALLY against a company getting my tax money as a bailout AND paying bonuses. If you get a bonus because your company does well so be it. If you company is doing well and you want to pay your CEO millions, so be it.

As for the unions keeping jobs in America??? How are they doiong that? Jobs are leaving America because companies don’t want to deal with the unions anymore. The protests going on in WI involve jobs that cannot be outsourced. It’s hard to patrol the streets of WI from India.

The Real Royal King said:
Can you reference any polls establishing that a majority of Badgers voted for Walker because he was going to bust the unions?

My inlaws are from Racine, WI. Walkers history and politics were well known to the voters of WI. They knew what they were voting for.

P.S. They voted for Walker. :)

tatboy said:
As for the unions keeping jobs in America??? How are they doiong that? Jobs are leaving America because companies don’t want to deal with the unions anymore. The protests going on in WI involve jobs that cannot be outsourced. It’s hard to patrol the streets of WI from India.

As far as the unions keeping jobs here. It’s not going very well is it? As the second part of your post, no shit. Which is why they are grossly underpaid.

The Real Royal King said:
Can you reference any polls establishing that a majority of Badgers voted for Walker because he was going to bust the unions?

2ez:

Survey of 750 Likely Voters in Wisconsin
October 25, 2010
Election 2010: Wisconsin Governor

Scott Walker (R)52%

Tom Barrett (D) 42%

Some Other Candidate 2%

Not sure 3%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/wisconsin/election_2010_wisconsin_governor

Date:
Tuesday, October 5, 2010

Walker – like Christie – has proposed having state employees contribute more to their own pensions, although New Jersey’s pension system is underfunded by tens of billions of dollars while Wisconsin’s is financially healthy.
http://www.scottwalker.org/news/2010/10/governors-stump-wisconsin-gubernatorial-race-superior-telegram

Looks like they knew well what he stood for and was going to do. Looks like the PEOPLE like him and his goals.

Kat said:
As far as the unions keeping jobs here. It’s not going very well is it? As the second part of your post, no shit. Which is why they are grossly underpaid.

The market determines what I get paid. I will again ask. Why should anything but the market determine what they get paid??? I’m not looking for “feelings” I’m looking for WHY they have a special deal to get paid MORE than the market will bere.

tatboy said:
The market determines what I get paid. I will again ask. Why should anything but the market determine what they get paid??? I’m not looking for “feelings” I’m looking for WHY they have a special deal to get paid MORE than the market will bere.

Because if not for teachers EVERYONE would be illiterate. If not for firefighters, instead of one row of houses burning down it would go on forever, most likely. If not for police it would be serious chao’s across the country.

Lest I forget. Police and fireman put their lives on the line more times than not.

Kat said:
Because if not for teachers EVERYONE would be illiterate. If not for firefighters, instead of one row of houses burning down it would go on forever, most likely. If not for police it would be serious chao’s across the country.

So your saying if these people don’t do it, no one will??? That makes no sence?

tatboy said:
So your saying if these people don’t do it, no one will??? That makes no sence?</blockquote

Lessor qualified people I would imagine.

The Real Royal King said:
We should print up some “I’m Stupid, and I’m With Walker” bumper stickers. We’d make a fortune. Maybe “Can’t Walker and Chew Gum at the Same Time”.

Yez supiid wlkr ie stnd wit onion cas i prod protuk of publick skool syztum tezzers mak mi big srtii pantzze

Kat said:
Lessor qualified people I would imagine.

Yes. union negotiated quotas ensure only the most “qualified ” applicants are hired , lol.

George C said:
Yes. union negotiated quotas ensure only the most “qualified ” applicants are hired , lol.

Exactly…

union sb government

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or
946.12(3)
(3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;

George C said:
Yes. union negotiated quotas ensure only the most “qualified ” applicants are hired , lol.

tatboy said:
Exactly…

You know that saying “You get what you pay for”? Meaning sometimes when you by something cheap, you get something cheap.

Kat said:
You know that saying “You get what you pay for”? Meaning sometimes when you by something cheap, you get something cheap.

It’s also about balance. I live in St. Louis. I’m a hugh sports freak. Right now the owners of every pro team have to charge so much for tickets to pay those hugh saleries I could NEVER contemplate going to a game. I make better than the national average and the thought of going to a Cards or Rams game isn’t even a question. Albert is demanding a hugh sum of money and I want him to get paid. But NOT if it destroys the team I love. Look what happened to the Rangers and Alex R. They paid him a quarter of a billion and the team was destroyed. They are still paying him to this day. I want Albert to get paid, but if he has to go so the team can afford to pay OTHER players or NOT raise ticket prices on the people of St. Louis so be it. Sometimes when people get too greedy you have to let them go for the good of the whole.

Kat said:
You know that saying “You get what you pay for”? Meaning sometimes when you by something cheap, you get something cheap.

That makes little sense , given the context.

im_lovin_it said:
On a perhaps unrelated note, whenever I see and hear all this talk about “being broke” and “tough cuts,” I can’t help but think…….thank god we kept that tax cut for rich people.

I’ve posted something similar in several threads about this subject.

The unions, and working teachers are expecting too much, and are the bad guys of our huge debt problem, but yet the GOP drew a hard line on tax cuts to save 4% for our wealthiest citizens. I don’t get it. If the principle is, as citizens we all need to tighten our belts to get the economy under control, why shouldn’t we expect our wealthiest citizens to kick in a little extra?

tatboy said:
It’s also about balance. I live in St. Louis. I’m a hugh sports freak. Right now the owners of every pro team have to charge so much for tickets to pay those hugh saleries I could NEVER contemplate going to a game. I make better than the national average and the thought of going to a Cards or Rams game isn’t even a question. Albert is demanding a hugh sum of money and I want him to get paid. But NOT if it destroys the team I love. Look what happened to the Rangers and Alex R. They paid him a quarter of a billion and the team was destroyed. They are still paying him to this day. I want Albert to get paid, but if he has to go so the team can afford to pay OTHER players or NOT raise ticket prices on the people of St. Louis so be it. Sometimes when people get too greedy you have to let them go for the good of the whole.

I agree. Yet, I still think teachers etc are underpaid. I also think if a teacher etc is not effective in their position, then is not deserving of the money they get paid and should be let go. Just like any other employed person. Thats one of the things I dislike about unions. They tend to fight for the people that do not deserve to be kept. Not as a whole but as an individual.

I don’t think equating them with a sports team is honest. They are grossly overpaid. But thats the market they are in. So by your analogy it is correct and therefore the price of tickets is acceptable. You have a choice to buy a ticket or not. Our childrens education, fires and personal safety are not choices.

CosmosDan said:
I’ve posted something similar in several threads about this subject. The unions, and working teachers are expecting too much, and are the bad guys of our huge debt problem, but yet the GOP drew a hard line on tax cuts to save 4% for our wealthiest citizens. I don’t get it. If the principle is, as citizens we all need to tighten our belts to get the economy under control, why shouldn’t we expect our wealthiest citizens to kick in a little extra?

I don’t disagree. But many feel that will always be the Dems answer. Tax and spend. Some (like myself) have just said “Enough”. I don’t hate people who have more than me. Some people seem to. I guess some on our side have drawn a line in the sand and said… “None shall pass” (sorry had too). Maybe if for ONCE the Dems go with cuts… maybe after that we can look at taxes. But in my opinion the cuts must come first or they will NEVER happen. And not cuts that expire… permanent cuts.

tws258 said:
That makes little sense , given the context.

No it is not. IMO. Teachers routinely have to take more courses to become better teachers, which costs them more money. Police and firefighters continue to take training.

Just as doctors continue their training. Or would you want a surgeon that has not kept up to date with new procedures because he is cheaper? I think not.

Kat said:
I agree. Yet, I still think teachers etc are underpaid. I also think if a teacher etc is not effective in their position, then is not deserving of the money they get paid and should be let go. Just like any other employed person. Thats one of the things I dislike about unions. They tend to fight for the people that do not deserve to be kept. Not as a whole but as an individual. I don’t think equating them with a sports team is honest. They are grossly overpaid. But thats the market they are in. So by your analogy it is correct and therefore the price of tickets is acceptable. You have a choice to buy a ticket or not. Our childrens education, fires and personal safety are not choices.

True… I was using the sports analogy to clarify MY opinion. Not equating the 2. Should have been more clear.

Are you taking into account teacher, cop, and firefighters benefits into account when you say they are underpaid???

No, but at the same time, I do think they should pay into those benefits and they have conceded to do so. In this case.

Here’s something relevant that was posted in another thread about this. Walker appears to be repeating things already examined and found lacking.

http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-his-budget-repair-/

“Currently, state employees are covered by civil service, but most local government employees don’t have it and no public school employees do, Phillips said.”

So, if he’s lying about the civil service laws already in place covering the teachers {and I’m not clear on that}
that puts his motives in question.
He seems to be saying that he just doesn’t believe their offers to take some cuts to help balance the budget, if they can retain collective bargaining. He also says if the Dems come back he’s willing to talk, but the problem is if they come back a vote can be forced and the bill passed without negotiation. Reach an agreement over the phone.

zumpano said:
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HILARIOUS POST Yeah, they’re REAAAAALLLLLYYYYY going to ask him to run against Obama LOL!!!!!

zumpano said:
OK.. By this time in 2009, they passed the ARA. WHATS THE GOP EXCUSE!?!?!? WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!WHERES THE JOBS BILLS GOP???? WHERE’S THE JOBS BILLS GOP!?!?!?!?!

Are you hard of hearing? Or is it you don’t think people can see when you type in the lower-case?

Kat said:
No it is not. IMO. Teachers routinely have to take more courses to become better teachers, which costs them more money. Police and firefighters continue to take training.
Just as doctors continue their training. Or would you want a surgeon that has not kept up to date with new procedures because he is cheaper? I think not.

This makes even less sense . You quoted a post about quotas , and you’ve babbled about cheap labor and now , expensive training . You’re lost .

CosmosDan said:
Here’s something relevant that was posted in another thread about this. Walker appears to be repeating things already examined and found lacking. http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-his-budget-repair-/ “Currently, state employees are covered by civil service, but most local government employees don’t have it and no public school employees do, Phillips said.” So, if he’s lying about the civil service laws already in place covering the teachers {and I’m not clear on that}that puts his motives in question.He seems to be saying that he just doesn’t believe their offers to take some cuts to help balance the budget, if they can retain collective bargaining. He also says if the Dems come back he’s willing to talk, but the problem is if they come back a vote can be forced and the bill passed without negotiation. Reach an agreement over the phone.

Yes, but weren’t the GOP labeled as the Party of No when they tried to block legislation? Like Obama said, “We won” or “We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”

Actions and statements like these set dangerous precedence. They can easily be turned around on you. Quite honestly, I won’t be surprised when the Republicans in Illinois use this same tactic and run to the open arms of Walker to block Quinn’s legislation. Quinn was a fool to set himself up this way.

tws258 said:
This makes even less sense . You quoted a post about quotas , and you’ve babbled about cheap labor and now , expensive training . You’re lost .

My convo was with tatboy. And I don’t think you read all of the posts.

The GOP has been in charge for a few months and jobs have not improved at all…. cutting spending is great but that doesn’t fix the problems we already have. Something tells me the GOP won’t do **** to help the economy, except spend all day and night attacking Obama… that’s their only real way to win anymore, just attack Obama. Except.. if Obama is gone, then what? Do you expect the GOP in congress to really get serious about things? They won’t, they’ve all tricked you into supporting hte rich.. and you’ll see, they will never support you, only the rich. It’s sad, it’s how kings and queens come into power, trick the dumb lower-class into supporting rich people, then they slowly lose the power to disagree with the king/queen. You’ll see what I mean when the GOP ignores you all and does whatever the hell it wants after you give them victory :P

tatboy, I appreciate the comments going back and forth between us. I respect your right to disagree and also appreciate that it didn’t come down to name calling etc. I have to go now. But thanks again.

CosmosDan said:
He seems to be saying that he just doesn’t believe their offers to take some cuts to help balance the budget, if they can retain collective bargaining. He also says if the Dems come back he’s willing to talk, but the problem is if they come back a vote can be forced and the bill passed without negotiation. Reach an agreement over the phone.

“He seems to be saying that he just doesn’t believe their offers to take some cuts to help balance the budget, if they can retain collective bargaining. ” – that’s exactly what i think he is saying.

from that politifact:
“At the turn of the 19th century, the Republican governor told conservative talk show host Charles Sykes, Wisconsin adopted the “strongest civil service protections” in the world.

Walker then added:
“Those fully remain intact. Civil service does not get altered by the modest changes we’re talking about here. Collective bargaining is fully intact. You’ve got merit hiring, you’ve got just cause for termination and for discipline. All those things remain.”"

Sounds to me like they are factchecking his radio appearance jumping on a slip of the tongue. He was saying civil service protections will not changed.

He has said here, and elsewhere, that the collective bargaining rights will be changed. It looks like he was saying, “You’ve got merit hiring, you’ve got just cause for termination and for discipline. All those things remain.” but it is the bargaining power of the unions wrt salary and benefits that has to change.

“Walker told GMA the concessions are nothing but a “red herring,” and that he’s not union busting.” “What changes is the fact that no longer can our unions have a stranglehold — not only on the state government but local government — to force them to not alter benefit packages that are like a virus eating up our budget.”

union representatives negotiate a contract with the management regarding wages, hours, benefits, and other terms and conditions of employment, such as protection from termination of employment without just cause. It doesn’t do any good to try and fix the budget if Unions still have the power of collective bargaining wrt money.

Kat said:
tatboy, I appreciate the comments going back and forth between us. I respect your right to disagree and also appreciate that it didn’t come down to name calling etc. I have to go now. But thanks again.

Anytime man. I enjoyed as well. :)

Kat said:
My convo was with tatboy. And I don’t think you read all of the posts.

or

Kat said:
George C said:
Yes. union negotiated quotas ensure only the most “qualified ” applicants are hired , lol.
tatboy said:
Exactly…
You know that saying “You get what you pay for”? Meaning sometimes when you by something cheap, you get something cheap.

Kat said:
tws258 said:
That makes little sense , given the context.
No it is not. IMO. Teachers routinely have to take more courses to become better teachers, which costs them more money. Police and firefighters continue to take training.
Just as doctors continue their training. Or would you want a surgeon that has not kept up to date with new procedures because he is cheaper? I think not.

tws258 said:
This makes even less sense . You quoted a post about quotas , and you’ve babbled about cheap labor and now , expensive training . You’re lost .

Leave yourself a trail of bread crumbs next time , mkay thx.

Snowspot said:
The GOP has been in charge for a few months and jobs have not improved at all…. cutting spending is great but that doesn’t fix the problems we already have. Something tells me the GOP won’t do **** to help the economy, except spend all day and night attacking Obama… that’s their only real way to win anymore, just attack Obama. Except.. if Obama is gone, then what? Do you expect the GOP in congress to really get serious about things? They won’t, they’ve all tricked you into supporting hte rich.. and you’ll see, they will never support you, only the rich. It’s sad, it’s how kings and queens come into power, trick the dumb lower-class into supporting rich people, then they slowly lose the power to disagree with the king/queen. You’ll see what I mean when the GOP ignores you all and does whatever the hell it wants after you give them victory :P

The GOP is not in charge. Last Time I checked Obama was still a democrat and so was the ruling party of the senate. They had a supermajority for two years yet did little to nothing to help the unemployment in this country. Both parties need to work together to help out ALL Americans. Not just corporations and the unions.

Kat said:
tatboy, I appreciate the comments going back and forth between us. I respect your right to disagree and also appreciate that it didn’t come down to name calling etc. I have to go now. But thanks again.

tatboy said:
Anytime man. I enjoyed as well. :)

Now that’s thw way it’s supposed to be done. You guys don’t want to run for office, do you?

Powerslave said:
Now that’s thw way it’s supposed to be done. You guys don’t want to run for office, do you?

Hell… and … no… ;)

PRO-TAXPAYER — NOT anti-union !!!!!!

LOSERS compromise, WINNERS don’t.
In the Nov 2010 election in Wisconsin, as in most of America, as part of the effort to TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY, Wisconsin voters threw out of office the lunatic-left d-crat socialist extremists and replaced them with responsible, voter-focused politicians from the Republican Party, both in the legislature and the Governorship. The new, duly-elected Wisconsin Republican MAJORITY must stand firm in their resolve to correct the horrific mess created by the d-crat socialists. That’s what the voters put them in office to do. The few, remaining, pathetically irresponsible d-crat socialists in the legislature, who RUN-AND-HIDE instead of doing their job, should GET NO SALARY OR BENEFITS WHILE IN HIDING, and the voters should remove them from office at the earliest possible opportunity.

Snowspot said:
The GOP has been in charge for a few months and jobs have not improved at all…. cutting spending is great but that doesn’t fix the problems we already have. Something tells me the GOP won’t do **** to help the economy, except spend all day and night attacking Obama… that’s their only real way to win anymore, just attack Obama. Except.. if Obama is gone, then what? Do you expect the GOP in congress to really get serious about things? They won’t, they’ve all tricked you into supporting hte rich.. and you’ll see, they will never support you, only the rich. It’s sad, it’s how kings and queens come into power, trick the dumb lower-class into supporting rich people, then they slowly lose the power to disagree with the king/queen. You’ll see what I mean when the GOP ignores you all and does whatever the hell it wants after you give them victory :P

The GOP is only in charge of the House. The House is doing it’s job. Take your complaint to Harry Reid.

Kat said:
Because if not for teachers EVERYONE would be illiterate.

Private school teachers are doing a better job for less compensation.

Lefter than Ewe said:
It is hard to believe people will vote against their own well being because they can’t think for themselves and believe the right’s line of BS.

It is hard to believe how cheerily you embrace being a looter because you’re not “voting against your own well being” which is code for taking other people’s stuff. But are you really “thinking for yourself” when you do that? I think not.

The 14 fugitives should just come home. Walker can and will carve out the collective bargaining issue from the budget bill and do it separately which will require a quorum that the Republicans can cover.

Unions your time has come…and it’s about damn time.

Zine al Abidine Ben Ali Runs and hides instead of fighting for what he believes in. Leaves behind his thugs and henchmen to do his dirty work
Mubarak Gone – Runs and hides instead of fighting for what he believes in Leaves behind his thugs and henchmen to do his dirty work.
Qaddafi Gone – Runs and hides instead of fighting for what he believes in Leaves behind his thugs and henchmen to do his dirty work.
Democrats in Wisconsin – Run and hide instead of fighting for what they believe in. Leaving behind their Union thugs and henchmen to do their dirty work.

FDR, the father of lunatic-left d-crat BIG GOVERNMENT socialism, SUPPORTS Wisconsin Gov. Walker !!!!!

“The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service,” Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the National Federation of Federal Employees. Yes, public workers may demand fair treatment, wrote Roosevelt. But, he wrote, “I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place” in the public sector. “A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government.”

BTW: Per the latest Rasmussen poll, MOST Americans also SUPPORT Gov. Walker and NOT the public-sector unionists.

CosmosDan said:
The unions, and working teachers are expecting too much, and are the bad guys of our huge debt problem, but yet the GOP drew a hard line on tax cuts to save 4% for our wealthiest citizens. I don’t get it. If the principle is, as citizens we all need to tighten our belts to get the economy under control, why shouldn’t we expect our wealthiest citizens to kick in a little extra?

If you agree that we ALL need to tighten our belts, that applies to poor and wealthy alike. In other words, everyone tightening our belts doesn’t mean the poor (or less wealthy) get special treatment. Requiring the “rich” to give up a tax cut while keeping the tax cuts in place for the “non-rich” is favoring the “non-rich.” Just as requiring the taxpayers in Wisconsin to foot the bill for teachers’ benefits, and not requiring the teachers to pay for those benefits themselves, favors the teachers over the taxpayers at large.

One of the 14 Democratic state senators that fled Wisconsin rather than vote on a bill taking away collective bargaining rights says he fears Republicans may find a way to vote on a key part of the measure without them.

Democratic state Sen. Jon Erpenbach told The Associated Press on Monday that Republicans could attempt to attach the part of the proposal taking away collective bargaining rights to an unrelated bill and pass it Tuesday.

Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said Sunday the Senate may come into session to take up appointments and other bills Tuesday, but he didn’t say which ones.

The 19 Republicans can’t act on the bill as Gov. Scott Walker proposed it because it has a fiscal impact, which requires 20 senators to be there.

Time is up Unions, suck it! Next up, Ohio!

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110221/GPG0101/110221050/For-budget-compromise-3-GOP-senators-are-needed

Hey President Obama, what happened to:

“ELECTIONS MATTER!”
- or do they only matter if DEMOCRATS WIN?

Meet the Real Obama – HYPOCRITE!

Boy, you Yankees sure love your unions. All those paid days off. Stay home with the baby and make $400. All those benefits for dumb asses too stupid to go to college. Don’t you just love your unions? Let’s bankrupt the state and keep our beloved union.

Republicans were all about bipartisanship and making the majority compromise…when they were in the minority.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/02/20/the-bottom-of-the-teachers-union-barrel/

The Real Royal King said:
Always disheartening to read how Americans so despise police officers, fire fighters, teachers and any other hard-working men and women merely trying to support their families and themselves. No wonder the American Middle Class disappeared. Other Middle Classers ate them.

Utter tripe. Per usual the Left labels dissent as hate. Perhaps by your reasoning we should double or triple their salaries because that would be proof of how much we love public employees.

The_Reasonable_Lib said:
Republicans were all about bipartisanship and making the majority compromise…when they were in the minority.

It seems the democrats are exactly the same.

Powerslave said:
It seems the democrats are exactly the same.

The health care bill incorporated Republican and Democrat ideas as well as many others.

The Real Royal King said:
We should print up some “I’m Stupid, and I’m With Walker” bumper stickers. We’d make a fortune. Maybe “Can’t Walker and Chew Gum at the Same Time”.

Perhaps you should try making your point without using ridicule. You may find that your argument carries more weight.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/21/wisconsins-teachers-make-a-little-more-money-than-theyre-letting-on/

The_Reasonable_Lib said:
The health care bill incorporated Republican and Democrat ideas as well as many others.

It seems that the Republicans disagree. The healthcare bill dropped the much needed public option because the blue dog democrats threatened to bust the super majority by demanding it’s ouster.

Echoes of 2009: “We won, get over it.”

tatboy said:
I don’t disagree. But many feel that will always be the Dems answer. Tax and spend. Some (like myself) have just said “Enough”. I don’t hate people who have more than me. Some people seem to. I guess some on our side have drawn a line in the sand and said… “None shall pass” (sorry had too). Maybe if for ONCE the Dems go with cuts… maybe after that we can look at taxes. But in my opinion the cuts must come first or they will NEVER happen. And not cuts that expire… permanent cuts.

I get that, but it hasn’t been all that one sided. It’s not as if the Dems have had their way for years and years.
I think you mentioned balance. I agree. I’m not sure permanent cuts are realistic. Situations change and anything voted in can be voted out.

tatboy said:
How do we despise them??? We want them to get a fair wage and fair benefits. Not pay and benefits that bankrupt the state and require more money to be taken from tax payers. I got very highly educated and therefor was able to aqure a job that requires my employer to pay me above the national average because not many people do what I do or put in the time for the education. I sacrificed in my youth to gain in my adult years (still have the student loans to prove it ;)). These folks seem to be will to watch the people be taxed more to get them what they want. Not because people NEED to pay them that muck (others would do the job at less money) but because they are able to blackmail the taxpayers into giving them more. “Leave us alone or we’ll go on a illegal sick-out as a group”.

I think that’s oversimplifying, or just plain inaccurate. They aren’t asking for more, and have even said they’d take some cuts to help balance the budget. Let’s keep the details straight.

Powerslave said:
It seems that the Republicans disagree. The healthcare bill dropped the much needed public option because the blue dog democrats threatened to bust the super majority by demanding it’s ouster.

Echoes of 2009: “We won, get over it.”

Yes but if you give me an idea and it turns out unpopular, you can disagree but at the end of the day its still your idea. It’s just like Republicans going against the earmarks THEY proposed.

Powerslave said:
Yes, but weren’t the GOP labeled as the Party of No when they tried to block legislation?

That wasn’t because of one piece of legislation. The problem is opposing almost everything because you don’t want the opposing party president to do to well. If he’s too successful then he easily get’s reelected.

I tend to think it was an exaggeration. but it wasn’t about one disputed piece.

CosmosDan said:
That wasn’t because of one piece of legislation. The problem is opposing almost everything because you don’t want the opposing party president to do to well. If he’s too successful then he easily get’s reelected. I tend to think it was an exaggeration. but it wasn’t about one disputed piece.

True enough, but I still think the precedent is set for opposition senators to use questionable means to block legislation. If it suceeds I doubt this will be the last time we see it used by either party.

CosmosDan said:
That wasn’t because of one piece of legislation. The problem is opposing almost everything because you don’t want the opposing party president to do to well. If he’s too successful then he easily get’s reelected. I tend to think it was an exaggeration. but it wasn’t about one disputed piece.

And quite honestly, the Republicans really needed to do little in 2009/10. The Democrats argued among themselves and self imploded. In this way the Republicans weren’t so much the Party of “No” as they were the Party of “Let’s wait “em out.”

Powerslave said:
It seems that the Republicans disagree. The healthcare bill dropped the much needed public option because the blue dog democrats threatened to bust the super majority by demanding it’s ouster.

Echoes of 2009: “We won, get over it.”

The Health Care Bill is patterned after the BOB DOLE (R) counter-proposal to Hillary Care, and is a more conservative plan than what Mitt Romney (R) has in Massachussettes.

–Cobra

Powerslave said:
“We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”

That seems pretty minor compared to some things that have been said.

This was said before the 2010 elections , saying that he had invited the GOP to participate and they had balked. I remember him saying he was brought something by the GOP and he said, “Sounds good to me” at which point they dropped it, because the goal was to have him reject it.

I don’t believe every bit of this political speak but I do believe bad or good policy is often decided by what political advantage or disadvantage it might bring rather than the merits of the policy. It’s a lousy way to govern.

Cobra said:
The Health Care Bill is patterned after the BOB DOLE (R) counter-proposal to Hillary Care, and is a more conservative plan than what Mitt Romney (R) has in Massachussettes. –Cobra

I’ve never heard that before but it would be interesting to see. Could you cite your source? (seriously, I’m not being sarcastic)

CosmosDan said:
I think that’s oversimplifying, or just plain inaccurate. They aren’t asking for more, and have even said they’d take some cuts to help balance the budget. Let’s keep the details straight.

I was describing their (unions) actions in the past. Now they are saying it isn’t about the money but “collective bargining”. Walker has stated that colective bargining for pay is the only thing on the table because WI has no money. And if someone… anyone… no matter WHO it is says it “Isn’t about the money”… it is for 100% sure it’s about the money.

The Unions have agreed to the financial concessions. If this is not about union busting, why has Gov. Walker refused to make the deal and end the stand-off?

CosmosDan said:
I get that, but it hasn’t been all that one sided. It’s not as if the Dems have had their way for years and years.I think you mentioned balance. I agree. I’m not sure permanent cuts are realistic. Situations change and anything voted in can be voted out.

In WI (Madison specifically) Dems and the unions HAVE gotten their way for years and years. My inlaws are from Racine, WI and WI is one of the strongest union states in the country. The voters picked Walker for a reason. As Obama said… “Elections have consequences.” Or does he nolonger believe that???

CosmosDan said:
That seems pretty minor compared to some things that have been said. This was said before the 2010 elections , saying that he had invited the GOP to participate and they had balked. I remember him saying he was brought something by the GOP and he said, “Sounds good to me” at which point they dropped it, because the goal was to have him reject it. I don’t believe every bit of this political speak but I do believe bad or good policy is often decided by what political advantage or disadvantage it might bring rather than the merits of the policy. It’s a lousy way to govern.

If it’s true I agree it is a lousy way to govern. I’ve also heard worse than the above Obama quote, from both sides. I don’t trust either party, it’s why I’m an independent. (That and the fact that I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal).

TheEagle said:
The Unions have agreed to the financial concessions. If this is not about union busting, why has Gov. Walker refused to make the deal and end the stand-off?

Because it’s about eleminating how they got there in the first place as well.

tatboy said:
Because it’s about eleminating how they got there in the first place as well.

So it is about union busting.

TheEagle said:
So it is about union busting.

If you want to lable it that OK. I don’t care. Even though the union keeps it’s right to collectivly bargan on pay. Sure call it whatever. I support it.

Wisconsin is facing a $3.6 Billion dollar deficit, with a 9.4% un-employment rate. Currently, the public employees pay nothing for their health care and retirement funds which is paid for by public tax money, while private industry employees have to. It doesn’t take a rocket-scientist to figure out that with a lower tax base paying taxes, that public employees are going to have to pay into their benefits packages. This isn’t about busting Unions, this is about dealing with reality in a rational way. If that means public employees are going to have to learn that the free ride is over, so be it. The people of this country have allowed this, and prior governments to establish a dependant entitlement employee bureaucracy that has used, and abused the system into failure. In the immortal words of that religious Sage…Rev.Wright, “the chickens have come home to roost”!!

Powerslave said:
If it’s true I agree it is a lousy way to govern. I’ve also heard worse than the above Obama quote, from both sides. I don’t trust either party, it’s why I’m an independent. (That and the fact that I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal).

I was an independent for many years and registered Dem only because I thought it would allow me to be more involved. Turns out , after attending some meetings, I wasn’t all that happy about the way things were done, although I know I gave up to easily.

I think the issue ought to be corruption rather than right and left. Fiscal responsibility is not something the Dems are against. They just disagree on where the money ought to be spent and what programs are effective and/or helpful.
I’d love to see major campaign finance reform , and both parties do a far better job of policing their own party to weed out the special interests.

CAconservative said:
It doesn’t take a rocket-scientist to figure out that with a lower tax base paying taxes, that public employees are going to have to pay into their benefits packages

Which they have already said they would do. I’m not sure why this isn’t common knowledge now to anyone who’s looked at the issue.

There are some interesting updates on huffpo about this story.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/21/scott-walker-wisconsin-budget-protests_n_826021.html

“Walker said on “Good Morning America” that there is “no room to negotiate” and rejected a compromise proposal from a Republican state senator.”
Even the police and Firemen who supported him in the election and are not affected by the changes are beginning to side with the teachers on this. And part way down the page you see this
” Little-Noticed Provision In Walker’s Bill Could Reap Huge Gains For Koch Industries”
2nd largest donation to Walkers campaign as well as to the Republican Governors association which also helped out Walker.
” While there has been significant attention devoted to the fact that Walker’s 144-page budget repair bill would strip away collective bargaining rights for public employees, the site “Rortybomb” points out a less noticed provision that would allow the state to sell or contract out any state-owned energy asset in no-bid deals with private corporations.”
from the bill
“the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state.”

“But if this deal goes through, one of the companies that could stand to benefit significantly is Koch Industries. Koch already has several companies in the state, including a coal subsidiary, timber plants and a large network of pipelines.”

and it was the Koch funded group that bussed in the Tea Party folks and established a web site to support Walker.

tatboy said:
In WI (Madison specifically) Dems and the unions HAVE gotten their way for years and years. My inlaws are from Racine, WI and WI is one of the strongest union states in the country. The voters picked Walker for a reason. As Obama said… “Elections have consequences.” Or does he nolonger believe that???

Once again, the union has already agreed to cuts that will help balance the budget. That is not the issue.
And we certainly can’t claim in this country that once an election is won you should silently accept what your newly elected leader does can we?

tatboy said:
I was describing their (unions) actions in the past. Now they are saying it isn’t about the money but “collective bargining”. Walker has stated that colective bargining for pay is the only thing on the table because WI has no money. And if someone… anyone… no matter WHO it is says it “Isn’t about the money”… it is for 100% sure it’s about the money.

Assuming Walker is being 100% honest. You should check out the link I just posted.

CosmosDan said:
Once again, the union has already agreed to cuts that will help balance the budget. That is not the issue.And we certainly can’t claim in this country that once an election is won you should silently accept what your newly elected leader does can we?

That’s what Obama wanted last year. My way… no tort reform… no compromise. As he said elections have consequesces. I agreed with him than and now. I didn’t like the Health Care Bill but the people had voted. So I took it. Now the tables have turned and the Dems flee the state. So they only have consequesces if the Dems win. And BTW I posted the WI Law that clearly lays out that the Dems are commiting a felony. Are you OK with that?

OK I’ve read yours. Now read mine…

http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/rachel-maddow/rachel-maddow-says-wisconsin-track-have-budget-sur/

tatboy said:
OK I’ve read yours. Now read mine…

http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/rachel-maddow/rachel-maddow-says-wisconsin-track-have-budget-sur/

Isn’t this the one mediaite already did an article about? I’ve read it. Rachel was wrong about the budget.

tatboy said:
My way… no tort reform… no compromise

I don’t know what happened, and I suspect you don’t either. Obama said he was willing to consider tort reform if the GOP would simply come to the table instead of opposing everything. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins got all kinds of crap for even being willing to work on it.

Just as now, it’s not tweak the portions that are problems, but full repeal.

tatboy said:
And BTW I posted the WI Law that clearly lays out that the Dems are commiting a felony. Are you OK with that?

That’s between them and WI. I stated earlier that I think they had other choices to delay a vote and force a discussion, as they do in DC, they would take it.

CosmosDan:

I believe we are all fully aware that the Union has said that it will concede on the issue of wage and benefits on this contract. That’s not the point. What this is about is the Union itself, and it’s determination to keep the status-qua in position. (1) Gov.Walker is demanding that the Union be re-certified annually by a majority of the members in the Union and not just a majority of those casting ballots. (2) end Union dues to help employees pay for their own pension, and health care. In effect CosmosDan, this governor is saying that the power to bargain for wages will still be in place but, the negotiators will be made up of members and not high priced Union negotiators. What Gov.Walker is trying to do is save jobs by living within a tax-base without laying people off.

The unions, however, might bust themselves.

Is it just me or can you see the Koch brothers pulling the strings that operate this guys mouth?

Tedderman said:
Is it just me or can you see the Koch brothers pulling the strings that operate this guys mouth?

They did support his election and there’s a clause in the bill they stand to benefit from.

If Republicans keep going, they will be making us look very bad to Foreign Countries.
If your head is screwed on right you can see we have more people needing jobs today then present day businesses can accommodate. We need to either get rid of about a half million people or start up about a few hundred thousand businesses. We can convert some of our Colleges and Universities into fabricators of various business types and get them up and running by selling stock in them to get them going. Some ingenious financial maneuvering may need be put into play. These new business will produce products that are determined by the educational institutions to be in demand and investors will flock to these new businesses generated by these Colleges and Universities. This is an Idea whose time has come. The need around the entire globe, for products of necessities, to sustain live is growing and causing civil unrest throughout the entire globe while the Greedy Rascals who are trying to slow down the entire Global Economy so they can rest and control things their way to the benefit of a few prosperous wealthy rascals who are tired of working and don’t want anyone else to get ahead of them. The reason I am the only one who can see things this way is —I don’t let other people pick the topic I want to think and write about. By this I mean; some nut case picks the topic and everyone argues about it. That is like going around in circles. These three different states trying to move us back into the 1920’s and 30’s are making the Republicans and American Business look stupid in the eyes of other Foreign Countries. If you want to get ahead EVERYHONE has got to prosper, otherwise, here comes civil unrest. The world is in need of everything, why can’t we produce and sell it? ? ?