‘He Should Denounce It!’ Top NY Democrat Spars With Radio Host In Tense Interview Over Mamdani’s Comments On ‘Intifada’

Public radio host Brian Lehrer interviewed Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) on Thursday, and the two discussed Zohran Mamdani’s apparent victory in the New York City Democratic mayoral primary on Tuesday.

The conversation on Lehrer’s eponymous show became tense at times after Lehrer tried to fact-check Gillibrand for saying Mamdani had made past references to “global jihad.” Gilibrand pushed back by insisting Mamdani should clearly denounce calls to “Globalize the Intifada,” which he has refused to do in the past, claiming it’s not a call to violence.

The exchange began with Gillibrand taking a call. “Gabe in Jersey City. You’re on WNYC with Senator Gillibrand. Hello, Gabe,” began Lehrer as Gabe asked his question:

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my call and question. I wanted to ask two very pertinent questions about the threats facing the Jewish community, unfortunately, from Zohran Mamdani.

There was a bill that I was reading about that unfortunately, he wants to target synagogues and Jewish institutions which donate to non-profits which are medical institutions like United Hatzalah and Magen David Adom, which is like the Jewish Red Cross. So how do we make sure that Jewish institutions are protected from his plans to punish and fine our institutions that fundraise the medical non-profits, which do work both here in the United States and in Israel and other countries in the world?

And also, how can we hold Mr. Mamdani accountable for his glorifying association of Hamas and other terror bombings of the Intifada in the 1990s, where over 1,000 Jewish Israelis were killed, to his revisionist Holocaust knowledge, to the Warsaw ghetto uprising where Jews were mass exterminated and faced threats.

He compared when Jews were killed to when Jews fought back against Nazis. It’s quite despicable, I’m sorry.

“Gabe, thank you for your call. There’s a lot in there, Senator, some of which may be inaccurate. So I don’t know, I can’t fact-check everything in real time,” Lehrer replied, asking:

But do you know any of that to be inaccurate or accurate, including the original premise that he would somehow target synagogues, if they were contributing to groups like Hatzalah Ambulance Services in a way that he could hurt the synagogues? I just don’t want to give out information that’s false, but I also don’t want to shrink from information that’s true.

“Well, the caller is exactly the New York constituents that I’ve spoken to that are alarmed. They are alarmed by past public statements. They are alarmed by past positions, particularly references to global jihad,” Gillibrand replied, adding:

This is a very serious issue, because people that glorify the slaughter of Jews create fear in our communities. The ‘Global Intifada’ is a statement that means destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. So, these are the kinds of things that if Mr. Mamdani if elected our mayor, he will need to assure all New Yorkers that he will protect all Jews and protect houses of worship and protect funding for not-for-profits that meet the needs of these communities.

Those are the things he will have to do as our mayor.

“He would certainly say that he has committed to protecting all Jews in New York as mayor of New York. Do you doubt that?” Lehrer followed up.

“Well, one of the issues I did talk to him [about] yesterday was exactly this issue, and he has agreed to work with me on this and to protect all residents. So, this is something I care deeply about, and so I will be an advocate on these issues. These are things that I think are important to New Yorkers,” Gillibrand replied, adding:

And I will work with him when he gets elected, if he gets elected, to make sure everyone is protected. I also, on the federal level, work to get resources for all our religious sites in the state and in the city. I lead the letter for funding for– I lead the letter for the funding to protect synagogues and churches and temples and places of worship across our city and state.

And these are things that he has assured me in my one conversation that he will protect everyone. But I understand why people are concerned because of past statements. And so this is just an issue that I will work with him on, for sure.

Later in the program, Lehrer returned to the topic, asking, “On Mamdani, I just feel compelled to say, we can find no evidence that he has supported Hamas or has supported violent jihad, as that caller was asserting. Can you?”

“Again, Brian, I don’t have all the data and information, and I’ve never sat down with Mr. Mamdani. So I’ve asked to have that meeting. I’m going to have that meeting,” Gillibrand replied, adding:

We will talk through all these things. He can tell me his views of the world, and I can learn them firsthand. I think the reference that I had read was ‘Global Intifada,’ specifically, which has very serious meanings that are violent and destructive.

Lehrer pushed back, “Which he says, and I pressed him on this, on the show on Monday, but which he says are not calls for violence because Intifada is a much broader term involving all kinds of uprisings and resistance and things like that. So, I just want to be clear about how at least he defines it. And maybe he needs to be more clear, I don’t mean this, I don’t mean that.”

“He did say here that he didn’t want to be the word police, even as the mayor of New York if he’s elected. But I do also want to be clear that he said he does not support violent Intifada. Is that fair?” Lehrer asked.

“So Brian, I didn’t hear your exchange with him, but if I was speaking to him directly, I would simply say that is not how the words are received. And it doesn’t matter what meaning you have in your brain, it is not how the word is received. And when you use a word like Intifada, to many Jewish Americans and Jewish New Yorkers, that means you are permissive for violence against Jews,” Gillibrand shot back, adding:

It is a serious word. It is a word that has deep meaning. It has been used for wars across time and violence and destruction and slaughter and murder against the Jews.

It is a harmful, hurtful, inappropriate word for anyone who wants to represent a city as diverse as New York City with 8 million people. And I would be very specific in these words, and I would say you may not use them again if you expect to represent everyone ever again because they are received as hateful and divisive and harmful. And that’s it.

So I appreciate that he told you he didn’t mean that, and that’s great. That’s a great place to start.

Lehrer replied, “And I think we also clarify, or he was clarifying that he never said, ‘Globalize the Intifada.’ He was asked in an interview if he would denounce the phrase ‘Globalize the Intifada.’ And then that led to this kind of conversation, you know, that you were just referring to. But, but that he was never out there saying, ‘Globalize the Intifada.’ He was asked about other people who used it. So just, just to be precise about, about what happened there, yes?”

“Well, as a leader of a city as diverse as New York City with 8 million people, as the largest Jewish population in the country, he should denounce it. And that’s it. Period,” Gillibrand replied, adding:

And you can’t celebrate it, you can’t value it, you can’t lift it up. And that is what, that is the challenge that Jewish New Yorkers have had, certainly since October 6th, it is, excuse me, October 7th, it is exactly what they have felt. It is why Jewish students in our universities have felt unsafe.

It is why Jewish students have felt that their schools did not have their backs and cared about them or their learning because the people doing these protests use words that have meanings that are far more violent and horrific than they may have intended. But when you hear things like ‘Intifada,’ when you hear things like Jihad, when you hear from the ‘River to the Sea,’ it is received as ‘slaughter the Jews’ and ‘destroy Israel,’ period. It’s how it’s received.

Listen to the full conversation here.