Cheney Charges Trump’s Plan For Pence on Jan. 6 Was ‘Illegal and Unconstitutional’

In her opening statement during Thursday’s House Jan. 6 Select Committee hearing, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) charged that former President Donald Trump’s plot to use Vice President Mike Pence to stay in power was both “illegal” and “unconstitutional.”

Committee Chairman Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) began the hearing by praising Pence.

“During today’s hearing. Good afternoon. This is almost no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president. No idea more un-American. I agree with that,” he began.

“Which is unusual because former Vice President Mike Pence and I don’t agree on much,” Thompson said, adding:

These are his words spoken a few months ago about Donald Trump’s attempt to pressure the former vice president, pressure him into going along with an unlawful and unconstitutional scheme to overturn the 2020 election and give Donald Trump a second term in office that he did not win.

“Today the select committee is going to reveal the details of that pressure campaign. What does the vice president of the United States even have to do with a presidential election? The constitution says that the vice president of the United States oversees the process of counting the electoral college votes. The process that took place on January 6, 2021,” Thompson added, explaining Pence’s role on Jan. 6 that Trump hoped to exploit.

“Donald Trump wanted Mike pence to do something no other vice president has ever done. The former president wanted pence to reject the votes and either declare trump the winner or send the votes back to the states to be counted again. Mike pence said no,” Thompson said, adding:

He resisted the pressure. He knew it was illegal, he knew it was wrong. We are fortunate for Mr. Pence’s courage on January 6th. Our democracy came dangerously close to catastrophe. That courage put him in tremendous danger. When Mike pence made it clear that he wouldn’t give in to Donald Trump’s scheme, Donald Trump turned the mob on him. A mob that was chanting ‘Hang Mike pence.’

A mob that had built a hang man’s gallows outside the Capitol. Thanks in part to Mike Pence, our democracy withstood Donald Trump’s scheme and the violence of January 6th.

“But the danger has not receded. Thereby my colleague will lay out the facts for the American people. But first, I recognize my colleague from Wyoming, Ms. Cheney, for any opening statements she would care to offer,” Thompson concluded.

“Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me take just a few minutes today to put the topic of our hearing in broader context,” Cheney began, adding:

In our last hearing we heard unequivocal testimony President Trump was told his election fraud allegations were complete nonsense. We heard this from members of the Trump campaign, we heard this from President Trump’s campaign lawyers, we heard this from president trump’s former attorney general, Bill Barr, we heard this from president trump’s former acting attorney general, Jeff Rosen.

“And we heard this from President Trump’s former acting deputy attorney general, Richard Donahue. And heard from his staff as well. Today we are focusing on president trump’s relentless effort to pressure Mike Pence to refuse to count electoral votes on January 6th,” she continued.

“Here again is how the former vice president phrased it in a speech before the federalist society, a group of conservative lawyers,” Cheney said, before playing a clip of Pence addressing the Federalist Society in Florida:

President Trump said I had the right to overturn the election. President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. Presidency belongs to the American people and the American people alone. And frankly, there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president.

“What the president wanted the vice president to do was not just wrong, it was illegal and unconstitutional,” Cheney charged, raising the specter of criminal charges.

“We will hear many details in today’s hearing but please consider these two points. First, President Trump was told repeatedly that Mike Pence lacked the constitutional and legal authority to do what President Trump was demanding he do. This is the testimony from Mark Short, the vice president’s chief of staff, who served in the Trump administration in multiple positions over four years,” she continued.

“Just to pick up on that, Mr. Short, was it your impression the vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues to the president, not just to the world through a dear colleague letter, but directly to President Trump,” Short is asked in a deposition.

“Many times,” Short replied.

“And he had been consistent in conveying his position to the president,” Short is asked.

“Very consistent,” Short replied.

“President Trump plotted with a lawyer named John Eastman to pressure pence to do so anyway. As a federal court has explained, “Based on the evidence, the court finds that it is more likely than not that president trump and Dr. Eastman dishonestly conspired to obstruct the joint session of Congress on January 6, 2021,’” Cheney continued, adding:

What exactly did President Trump know, when exactly did President Trump know that it would be illegal for Mike Pence to refuse to count electoral votes?

Here is one sample of testimony given which one of the witnesses before us today, the vice president’s general counsel.

“Did John Eastman ever admit as far as you know in front of the president that his proposal would violate the electoral college?” a lawyer is heard asking in the deposition.

“I believe he did on the 4th,” responded Greg Jacob, the vice president’s general counsel.

“January 4th, two days before the attack on congress,” Cheney said, adding:

The second point, please listen to testimony today about all of the ways that President Trump attempted to pressure Vice President Pence, including Donald Trump’s tweet at 2:24 p.p.condemning vice president Mike Pence when President Trump already knew a violent riot was underway at the Capitol.

In future hearings you will hear from witnesses who were present inside the White House, who were present inside the West Wing on that day. But today we focus on the earnest efforts of Mike Pence who was determined to abide by his oath of office. As Vice President Pence prepared a statement on January 5th and 6th, explaining that he could not illegally refuse to count electoral votes, said this to his staff.

“The vice president said this may be the most important thing I ever say,” Jacobs added of Pence’s insistence he could not overturn the certification of the election.

“You will hear today that President Trump’s White House counsel believed that the vice president did exactly the right thing on January 6th, as did others in the White House, as did Fox News host Sean Hannity. Vice President Pence understood that his oath of office was more important than his loyalty to Donald Trump. He did his duty. President Trump unequivocally did not,” Cheney concluded, yielding back her time.

Watch the full clip above via Fox News