WATCH: Ben Shapiro Squabbles With CNN’s Abby Phillip Over Trump’s Crime Crackdown

Conservative commentator Ben Shapiro verbally jousted with CNN host Abby Phillip over President Donald Trump’s push to crack down on crime in Washington, D.C., and other major cities, arguing it is a key topic the president is trouncing Democrats on in the court of public opinion.

“If the position you end up taking is that there is no serious crime emergency in Chicago, on a rhetorical level — not on a legal level, on a rhetorical level — or you make the case that ‘Actually, crime in Chicago just isn’t that big of a deal,’ — which seems to be the mistake that many Democratic politicians are making right now, Trump is going to win that battle all day long,” Shapiro said.

His comment came during a panel on Phillip’s program on CNN Newsnight on Tuesday. The Daily Wire co-founder added that 574 people were murdered in Chicago in 2024 — local news station ABC 7 in Chicago reported it was 573 homicides. Trump on Tuesday said he would be “going in” to fix crime in The Windy City in the near future, despite a recent court injunction barring him from using troops for domestic policing.

Phillip, immediately after Shapiro spoke, said Americans do want Trump to be tough on crime — but not necessarily deploy the National Guard to do so.

“I also want to focus on the reality. Like, the actual things that are happening. And even to that point, I mean, voters are not — I think we treat voters as stupider than they are. You ask them in polls and they say, ‘We think crime is a problem. We don’t like the way Trump is handling it in the way that he is sending the National Guard,'” Phillip said. “They want Trump to do more about crime. They don’t necessarily want him to send troops to cities.”

Last week, Trump surged to his best approval rating ever in AP’s national poll, landing at 45%. That was due in large part to his approach to crime, with 55% of respondents saying it was acceptable for the U.S. military or National Guard to “assist local police in large cities.”

Anna Kasparian, a host for The Young Turks, jumped in after Phillip spoke and argued “too many Democrats want to pretend” like crime is not a big issue. But if the federal government were “serious” about the problem, it would pressure Congress to pass legislation that funds research on mental health, which she said is a major factor in mass shootings.

Shapiro, a moment later, said crime is “plummeting” in Washington, D.C., thanks to Trump’s recent crackdown. Phillip argued the National Guard is “not doing any of that” work to help thwart crime, which bemused Shapiro.

You can watch that section of Newsnight above, via CNN.